GNU bug report logs - #74511
31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the user's
 customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800

If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:

1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:

    (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
    (require 'dictionary)
    (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)

I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
`dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
that wouldn't be necessary.


In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version
 1.18.2) of 2024-11-24 built on Laptop
Repository revision: cf3ea44eb56364190ea9f2b905f74902c49de416
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101014
System Description: Arch Linux

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib
 --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-gameuser=:games
 --with-modules --without-m17n-flt --without-selinux --without-pop
 --without-gconf --disable-gc-mark-trace --enable-link-time-optimization
 --with-native-compilation=yes --with-xinput2 --with-x-toolkit=no
 --without-toolkit-scroll-bars --without-xft --without-xaw3d
 --without-gsettings --with-cairo-xcb --with-sound=no --with-tree-sitter
 --without-gpm --without-compress-install
 '--program-transform-name=s/\([ec]tags\)/\1.emacs/'
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Configured features:
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LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY OLDXMENU PDUMPER
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Important settings:
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/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-octave hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-octave
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/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-maxima hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-maxima
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-matlab hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-matlab
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-makefile hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-makefile
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-lua hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lua
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-lob hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lob
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-lisp hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lisp
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-lilypond hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lilypond
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-latex hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-latex
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-julia hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-julia
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-js hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-js
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-java hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-java
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-haskell hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-haskell
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-groovy hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-groovy
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-gnuplot hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-gnuplot
/home/steb/.cache/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.16/ob-fortran hides /usr/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/org/ob-fortran
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Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr misearch multi-isearch emacsbug bash-completion
buffer-move consult-org network-stream evil-collection-dictionary
dictionary dictionary-connection consult-xref etags fileloop tabify
info-colors evil-collection-helpful helpful cc-langs trace cl-print
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comint-mime vtable mathjax c++-ts-mode c-ts-mode conf-mode js cc-mode
cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds flymake-ruff dired-k
all-the-icons-dired dired-filter dired-hacks-utils dired-aux dired-x
image-file image-converter go-ts-mode checkdoc package-lint-flymake
package-lint evil-collection-finder finder lisp-mnt rainbow-mode vc-hg
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vc-git vc-dispatcher evil-collection-consult consult magit-bookmark
org-bookmark-heading notmuch-bookmarks evil-collection-bookmark bookmark
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iwd i3bar ednc filechooser dbus exwm-xsettings xcb-xsettings
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xcb-cursor xcb-render exwm-layout exwm-workspace exwm-core xcb-ewmh
xcb-icccm xcb xcb-xproto xcb-types xcb-debug cus-start posframe
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org-appear ws-butler oc-basic bibtex ol-man ol-info ol-docview
evil-collection-doc-view doc-view jka-compr evil-collection-image
image-mode exif auto-compile show-font saveplace tramp-cache time-stamp
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python ob-gnuplot ob-calc calc-store calc-trail calc-ext
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ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol org-fold
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gsexp ghub url-http url-gw nsm url-auth gnutls forge-notify
forge-revnote forge-pullreq forge-issue forge-topic yaml eieio-custom
bug-reference forge-post evil-collection-markdown-mode markdown-mode
edit-indirect evil-collection-outline noutline outline forge-repo forge
forge-core forge-db closql emacsql-sqlite-common emacsql-sqlite emacsql
emacsql-compiler eieio-base evil-collection-magit-todos magit-todos
pcre2el rxt advice re-builder evil-collection-grep grep
evil-collection-magit magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash
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magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree
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magit-status magit evil-collection-magit-repos magit-repos magit-apply
magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff smerge-mode git-commit
evil-collection-log-edit log-edit message sendmail yank-media puny
evil-collection-dired dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec
evil-collection-epa epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util
ietf-drums mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader
pcvs-util add-log magit-core magit-autorevert magit-margin
magit-transient magit-process evil-collection-with-editor with-editor
server magit-mode transient benchmark magit-git magit-base
evil-collection-magit-section magit-section cursor-sensor crm tramp-sh
recentf tree-widget treesit-auto evil-collection-eglot eglot
external-completion jsonrpc evil-collection-xref xref
evil-collection-flymake flymake diff diff-mode track-changes
evil-collection-ert ert ewoc evil-collection-debug debug backtrace
evil-collection-compile compile text-property-search
evil-collection-imenu imenu editorconfig editorconfig-core
editorconfig-core-handle editorconfig-fnmatch yasnippet async-bytecomp
async sudo-edit tramp trampver tramp-integration files-x tramp-message
tramp-compat shell pcomplete evil-collection-comint comint ansi-osc
parse-time iso8601 time-date format-spec ansi-color tramp-loaddefs
autorevert filenotify project vertico corfu-popupinfo
evil-collection-corfu corfu orderless mb-depth minibuf-eldef isearch-mb
pixel-scroll cua-base hl-todo all-the-icons-completion all-the-icons
all-the-icons-faces all-the-icons-data-material-icons
all-the-icons-data-fluentui-system-icons
all-the-icons-data-fontawesome-4 all-the-icons-data-weather-icons
all-the-icons-data-vscode-codicons all-the-icons-data-octicons
all-the-icons-data-mfixx all-the-icons-data-file-icons
all-the-icons-data-devopicons all-the-icons-data-alltheicons svg dom xml
marginalia let-alist modus-vivendi-tritanopia-theme
modus-vivendi-deuteranopia-theme modus-vivendi-tinted-theme
modus-vivendi-theme modus-operandi-tritanopia-theme
modus-operandi-deuteranopia-theme modus-operandi-tinted-theme
modus-operandi-theme modus-themes visual-replace ispell jinx
evil-goggles pulse color evil-textobj-tree-sitter
evil-textobj-tree-sitter-thing-at-point evil-textobj-tree-sitter-core
treesit evil-args evil-surround evil-collection-unimpaired
evil-collection-tabulated-list evil-collection-tab-bar
evil-collection-simple evil-collection-replace
evil-collection-process-menu evil-collection-package-menu
evil-collection-kmacro evil-collection-info evil-collection-indent
evil-collection-help evil-collection-elisp-mode evil-collection-eldoc
evil-collection-custom evil-collection-buff-menu evil-collection
annalist evil evil-integration evil-maps evil-commands reveal evil-jumps
evil-command-window evil-types evil-search evil-ex evil-macros
evil-repeat evil-states evil-core comp-run evil-common thingatpt rect
evil-vars ring edmacro kmacro general easy-mmode pcase f dash s
mode-local find-func no-littering compat use-package-ensure finder-inf
notmuch-version info all-the-icons-completion-autoloads
all-the-icons-dired-autoloads all-the-icons-ibuffer-autoloads
all-the-icons-autoloads app-launcher-autoloads aria2-autoloads
atomic-chrome-autoloads auto-compile-autoloads bash-completion-autoloads
bluetooth-autoloads buffer-move-autoloads calibre-autoloads
cape-autoloads casual-autoloads clojure-mode-autoloads
comint-mime-autoloads consult-eglot-autoloads
consult-project-extra-autoloads corfu-autoloads corg-autoloads
csv-mode-autoloads dape-autoloads devdocs-autoloads
dired-filter-autoloads dired-hacks-utils-autoloads dired-k-autoloads
discomfort-autoloads debase-autoloads disk-usage-autoloads eat-autoloads
edit-indirect-autoloads ednc-autoloads eff-autoloads ellama-autoloads
embark-consult-autoloads consult-autoloads embark-autoloads
ement-autoloads eshell-prompt-extras-autoloads
eshell-syntax-highlighting-autoloads evil-args-autoloads
evil-collection-autoloads annalist-autoloads evil-goggles-autoloads
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evil-textobj-tree-sitter-autoloads evm-mode-autoloads
expand-region-autoloads exwm-autoloads filechooser-autoloads
flymake-ruff-autoloads forge-search-autoloads general-autoloads
git-link-autoloads git-modes-autoloads gnuplot-autoloads
graphviz-dot-mode-autoloads helpful-autoloads elisp-refs-autoloads
htmlize-autoloads i3bar-autoloads igist-autoloads info-colors-autoloads
isearch-mb-autoloads iwd-autoloads iwindow-autoloads jinx-autoloads
journalctl-autoloads kotlin-mode-autoloads kubernetes-evil-autoloads
evil-autoloads goto-chg-autoloads kubernetes-autoloads
ligature-autoloads link-hint-autoloads avy-autoloads llm-autoloads
magit-popup-autoloads magit-todos-autoloads hl-todo-autoloads
f-autoloads marginalia-autoloads mastodon-autoloads mathjax-autoloads
meow-autoloads microdata-autoloads modus-themes-autoloads
named-pipe-autoloads nftables-mode-autoloads no-littering-autoloads
notmuch-addr-autoloads notmuch-transient-autoloads nov-autoloads
esxml-autoloads kv-autoloads ob-http-autoloads ol-notmuch-autoloads
notmuch-autoloads openwith-autoloads orderless-autoloads
org-appear-autoloads org-bookmark-heading-autoloads
org-download-autoloads async-autoloads org-modern-autoloads
org-super-agenda-autoloads ht-autoloads orgit-forge-autoloads
orgit-autoloads forge-autoloads markdown-mode-autoloads magit-autoloads
ghub-autoloads closql-autoloads emacsql-autoloads ox-typst-autoloads
org-autoloads package-lint-flymake-autoloads package-lint-autoloads
password-store-autoloads pcre2el-autoloads pdf-tools-autoloads
persist-autoloads pinentry-autoloads pkgbuild-mode-autoloads
playerctl-autoloads plz-event-source-autoloads plz-media-type-autoloads
plz-autoloads posframe-autoloads proced-narrow-autoloads
protobuf-mode-autoloads pulseaudio-control-autoloads qrencode-autoloads
rainbow-delimiters-autoloads rainbow-mode-autoloads
ready-player-autoloads request-autoloads rg-autoloads rmsbolt-autoloads
rust-playground-autoloads show-font-autoloads solidity-mode-autoloads
spinner-autoloads ssh-config-mode-autoloads sudo-edit-autoloads
svg-lib-autoloads syncthing-autoloads systemctl-autoloads
systemd-autoloads tablist-autoloads taxy-magit-section-autoloads
taxy-autoloads magit-section-autoloads tmr-autoloads tp-autoloads
transient-autoloads treepy-autoloads treesit-auto-autoloads ts-autoloads
s-autoloads dash-autoloads tzc-autoloads udev-mode-autoloads
vala-mode-autoloads cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs
varuga-autoloads vertico-autoloads vimrc-mode-autoloads
visual-fill-column-autoloads visual-replace-autoloads vundo-autoloads
wat-ts-mode-autoloads watch-autoloads web-mode-autoloads
websocket-autoloads wgrep-autoloads whisper-autoloads
with-editor-autoloads ws-butler-autoloads xelb-autoloads yaml-autoloads
yasnippet-autoloads use-package-core comp comp-cstr cl-extra help-mode
comp-common warnings rx xdg package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy
url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file
url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq
eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cus-edit pp cus-load icons wid-edit
cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel
term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd touch-screen tool-bar dnd fontset
image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode
lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch
easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax
font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic
indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs
theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties
overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap
hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2
dynamic-setting font-render-setting cairo xinput2 x multi-tty
move-toolbar make-network-process native-compile emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 2198029 1447228) (symbols 48 99946 0) (strings 32 470053 86149)
 (string-bytes 1 14455863) (vectors 16 219687) (vector-slots 8 3071945 706738) (floats 8 1125 7046)
 (intervals 56 23155 7350) (buffers 992 51))

Message #8 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50;
 `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the user's customization of
 `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:03:50 +0200

> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800
> From:  Steven Allen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
> 
> 
> If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
> dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
> overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:
> 
> 1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
> 2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:
> 
>     (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
>     (require 'dictionary)
>     (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)
> 
> I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
> `dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
> default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
> calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
> that wouldn't be necessary.

You are supposed to customize dictionary-search-interface if you want
this mode of operation.

Message #11 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 12:36:00 -0800

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800
>> From:  Steven Allen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
>> 
>> 
>> If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
>> dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
>> overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:
>> 
>> 1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
>> 2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:
>> 
>>     (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
>>     (require 'dictionary)
>>     (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)
>> 
>> I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
>> `dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
>> default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
>> calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
>> that wouldn't be necessary.
>
> You are supposed to customize dictionary-search-interface if you want
> this mode of operation.

In addition to dictionary-search-interface, there are three separately
customizable variables:

- dictionary-display-definition-function
- dictionary-read-word-function
- dictionary-read-dictionary-function

I'd expect dictionary-search-interface to override the defaults for
these variables, but I wouldn't expect it to completely clobber any user
customizations of said variables.

If these variables cannot be customized, I'd expect them to be "defvar"
not "defcustom". Although that would be rather unfortunate because,
while I want to enable minibuffer completion for words/dictionaries, I'd
also like to use the real dictionary mode (not the help buffer).

Adding ":initialize 'custom-initialize-changed" to
dictionary-search-interface would make it possible to specify either
dictionary-search-interface or any of the other variables (but not both
at the same time).

Message #14 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>, Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 14:04:47 +0200

> From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
> Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 12:36:00 -0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800
> >> From:  Steven Allen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
> >> dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
> >> overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:
> >> 
> >> 1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
> >> 2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:
> >> 
> >>     (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
> >>     (require 'dictionary)
> >>     (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)
> >> 
> >> I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
> >> `dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
> >> default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
> >> calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
> >> that wouldn't be necessary.
> >
> > You are supposed to customize dictionary-search-interface if you want
> > this mode of operation.
> 
> In addition to dictionary-search-interface, there are three separately
> customizable variables:
> 
> - dictionary-display-definition-function
> - dictionary-read-word-function
> - dictionary-read-dictionary-function
> 
> I'd expect dictionary-search-interface to override the defaults for
> these variables, but I wouldn't expect it to completely clobber any user
> customizations of said variables.
> 
> If these variables cannot be customized, I'd expect them to be "defvar"
> not "defcustom". Although that would be rather unfortunate because,
> while I want to enable minibuffer completion for words/dictionaries, I'd
> also like to use the real dictionary mode (not the help buffer).
> 
> Adding ":initialize 'custom-initialize-changed" to
> dictionary-search-interface would make it possible to specify either
> dictionary-search-interface or any of the other variables (but not both
> at the same time).

Eshel, would you please look into this?  IMO, we should at least
improve the documentation to clarify these subtleties.  Bonus points
for allowing users to customize the other options without clobbering
them when the package is loaded or dictionary-search-interface is
customized.

Thanks.

Message #17 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 19:17:04 +0100

Hi,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
>> Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 12:36:00 -0800
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> >> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800
>> >> From:  Steven Allen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>> >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
>> >> dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
>> >> overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:
>> >> 
>> >> 1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
>> >> 2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:
>> >> 
>> >>     (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
>> >>     (require 'dictionary)
>> >>     (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)
>> >> 
>> >> I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
>> >> `dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
>> >> default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
>> >> calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
>> >> that wouldn't be necessary.
>> >
>> > You are supposed to customize dictionary-search-interface if you want
>> > this mode of operation.
>> 
>> In addition to dictionary-search-interface, there are three separately
>> customizable variables:
>> 
>> - dictionary-display-definition-function
>> - dictionary-read-word-function
>> - dictionary-read-dictionary-function
>> 
>> I'd expect dictionary-search-interface to override the defaults for
>> these variables, but I wouldn't expect it to completely clobber any user
>> customizations of said variables.
>> 
>> If these variables cannot be customized, I'd expect them to be "defvar"
>> not "defcustom". Although that would be rather unfortunate because,
>> while I want to enable minibuffer completion for words/dictionaries, I'd
>> also like to use the real dictionary mode (not the help buffer).
>> 
>> Adding ":initialize 'custom-initialize-changed" to
>> dictionary-search-interface would make it possible to specify either
>> dictionary-search-interface or any of the other variables (but not both
>> at the same time).
>
> Eshel, would you please look into this?  IMO, we should at least
> improve the documentation to clarify these subtleties.  Bonus points
> for allowing users to customize the other options without clobbering
> them when the package is loaded or dictionary-search-interface is
> customized.

Thank you Steven, for reporting this issue, and Eli, for pinging me.

The patch below tries to do both: 

- it adds a few words to the docstring of dictionary-search-interface
  which explain that this option can only be meaningfully set after
  loading dictionary.el, and
- it avoids clobbering existing settings for the other options during
  initialization.  It still overrides existing settings for the other
  options if you set dictionary-search-interface after dictionary.el,
  because that's the intended behavior when customizing this option.

WDYT?


diff --git a/lisp/net/dictionary.el b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
index 58c2e9771ba..0f9daa2d07d 100644
--- a/lisp/net/dictionary.el
+++ b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
@@ -301,21 +301,30 @@ dictionary-search-interface
 When set to `help', `dictionary-search' displays definitions in a *Help* buffer,
 and provides completion for word selection based on dictionary matches.
 
-Otherwise, `dictionary-search' displays definitions in a *Dictionary* buffer."
+Otherwise, `dictionary-search' displays definitions in a *Dictionary* buffer.
+
+This option only takes affect when you customize it after loading the
+`dictionary' library, so you may want to use `with-eval-after-load' to
+set it in your Emacs initialization file."
   :type '(choice (const :tag "Dictionary buffer" nil)
                  (const :tag "Help buffer" help))
   :set (lambda (symbol value)
-         (let ((vals (pcase value
-                       ('help '(dictionary-display-definition-in-help-buffer
-                                dictionary-completing-read-word
-                                dictionary-completing-read-dictionary))
-                       (_     '(nil
-                                dictionary-read-word-default
-                                dictionary-read-dictionary-default)))))
-           (seq-setq (dictionary-display-definition-function
-                      dictionary-read-word-function
-                      dictionary-read-dictionary-function)
-                     vals))
+         ;; If the symbol of this option is not bound, then we are
+         ;; initializing it, and the user hasn't set it in init.el.
+         ;; Avoid overriding individual customization of other options
+         ;; in this case.
+         (when (boundp symbol)
+           (let ((vals (pcase value
+                         ('help '(dictionary-display-definition-in-help-buffer
+                                  dictionary-completing-read-word
+                                  dictionary-completing-read-dictionary))
+                         (_     '(nil
+                                  dictionary-read-word-default
+                                  dictionary-read-dictionary-default)))))
+             (seq-setq (dictionary-display-definition-function
+                        dictionary-read-word-function
+                        dictionary-read-dictionary-function)
+                       vals)))
          (set-default-toplevel-value symbol value))
   :version "30.1")
 

Message #20 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 11:27:39 -0800

Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
>>> Cc: 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 12:36:00 -0800
>>> 
>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>> 
>>> >> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:56:08 -0800
>>> >> From:  Steven Allen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>>> >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> If the user customizes `dictionary-read-word-function' then loads the
>>> >> dictionary package, the value of `dictionary-read-word-function' will be
>>> >> overridden when `dictionary-search-interface' is loaded. To reproduce:
>>> >> 
>>> >> 1. Run emacs with `emacs -Q`.
>>> >> 2. Open a scratch buffer and evaluate the following:
>>> >> 
>>> >>     (setopt dictionary-read-word-function 'dictionary-completing-read-word)
>>> >>     (require 'dictionary)
>>> >>     (message "%S" dictionary-read-word-function)
>>> >> 
>>> >> I'd expect `dictionary-read-word-function' to be
>>> >> `dictionary-completing-read-word' but instead it gets reset back to the
>>> >> default, `dictionary-read-dictionary-default'. I can work around this by
>>> >> calling `setopt' after loading the `dictionary' package, but ideally
>>> >> that wouldn't be necessary.
>>> >
>>> > You are supposed to customize dictionary-search-interface if you want
>>> > this mode of operation.
>>> 
>>> In addition to dictionary-search-interface, there are three separately
>>> customizable variables:
>>> 
>>> - dictionary-display-definition-function
>>> - dictionary-read-word-function
>>> - dictionary-read-dictionary-function
>>> 
>>> I'd expect dictionary-search-interface to override the defaults for
>>> these variables, but I wouldn't expect it to completely clobber any user
>>> customizations of said variables.
>>> 
>>> If these variables cannot be customized, I'd expect them to be "defvar"
>>> not "defcustom". Although that would be rather unfortunate because,
>>> while I want to enable minibuffer completion for words/dictionaries, I'd
>>> also like to use the real dictionary mode (not the help buffer).
>>> 
>>> Adding ":initialize 'custom-initialize-changed" to
>>> dictionary-search-interface would make it possible to specify either
>>> dictionary-search-interface or any of the other variables (but not both
>>> at the same time).
>>
>> Eshel, would you please look into this?  IMO, we should at least
>> improve the documentation to clarify these subtleties.  Bonus points
>> for allowing users to customize the other options without clobbering
>> them when the package is loaded or dictionary-search-interface is
>> customized.
>
> Thank you Steven, for reporting this issue, and Eli, for pinging me.
>
> The patch below tries to do both: 
>
> - it adds a few words to the docstring of dictionary-search-interface
>   which explain that this option can only be meaningfully set after
>   loading dictionary.el, and
> - it avoids clobbering existing settings for the other options during
>   initialization.  It still overrides existing settings for the other
>   options if you set dictionary-search-interface after dictionary.el,
>   because that's the intended behavior when customizing this option.
>
> WDYT?
>

Is adding the following to `dictionary-search-interface' not sufficient?

    :initialize 'custom-initialize-changed

That would apply the `dictionary-search-interface' setting if and only
if specified by the user while still alowing the user to, e.g., use the
customize interface.

Message #23 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 22:27:57 +0100

Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com> writes:

> Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:
>
>>
>> The patch below tries to do both: 
>>
>> - it adds a few words to the docstring of dictionary-search-interface
>>   which explain that this option can only be meaningfully set after
>>   loading dictionary.el, and
>> - it avoids clobbering existing settings for the other options during
>>   initialization.  It still overrides existing settings for the other
>>   options if you set dictionary-search-interface after dictionary.el,
>>   because that's the intended behavior when customizing this option.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>
> Is adding the following to `dictionary-search-interface' not sufficient?
>
>     :initialize 'custom-initialize-changed
>
> That would apply the `dictionary-search-interface' setting if and only
> if specified by the user while still alowing the user to, e.g., use the
> customize interface.

Ah yes, seems even better than my patch since it also makes it possible
to set dictionary-search-interface before loading dictionary.el, thanks!

Eli, does this seem OK for the release branch?

diff --git a/lisp/net/dictionary.el b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
index 58c2e9771ba..42fb8c57b40 100644
--- a/lisp/net/dictionary.el
+++ b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
@@ -317,6 +317,7 @@ dictionary-search-interface
                       dictionary-read-dictionary-function)
                      vals))
          (set-default-toplevel-value symbol value))
+  :initialize #'custom-initialize-changed
   :version "30.1")
 
 (defface dictionary-word-definition-face

Message #26 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 14:59:11 +0200

> From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 22:27:57 +0100
> 
> Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com> writes:
> 
> > Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:
> >
> >>
> >> The patch below tries to do both: 
> >>
> >> - it adds a few words to the docstring of dictionary-search-interface
> >>   which explain that this option can only be meaningfully set after
> >>   loading dictionary.el, and
> >> - it avoids clobbering existing settings for the other options during
> >>   initialization.  It still overrides existing settings for the other
> >>   options if you set dictionary-search-interface after dictionary.el,
> >>   because that's the intended behavior when customizing this option.
> >>
> >> WDYT?
> >>
> >
> > Is adding the following to `dictionary-search-interface' not sufficient?
> >
> >     :initialize 'custom-initialize-changed
> >
> > That would apply the `dictionary-search-interface' setting if and only
> > if specified by the user while still alowing the user to, e.g., use the
> > customize interface.
> 
> Ah yes, seems even better than my patch since it also makes it possible
> to set dictionary-search-interface before loading dictionary.el, thanks!
> 
> Eli, does this seem OK for the release branch?
> 
> diff --git a/lisp/net/dictionary.el b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
> index 58c2e9771ba..42fb8c57b40 100644
> --- a/lisp/net/dictionary.el
> +++ b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
> @@ -317,6 +317,7 @@ dictionary-search-interface
>                        dictionary-read-dictionary-function)
>                       vals))
>           (set-default-toplevel-value symbol value))
> +  :initialize #'custom-initialize-changed
>    :version "30.1")

Don't you mean custom-initialize-set?

If I'm missing something, please describe what will happen in the
various scenarios when dictionary-search-interface and the other
related options are customized, whether by setq or via Custom, and
when they are not customized the first time dictionary.el is loaded.
When we understand all the effects of this, we can reason whether the
change is safe for the emacs-30 branch (which it better be, since
these options were introduced in Emacs 30, AFAIR).

Thanks.

Message #29 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2024 07:30:35 +0100

Hi,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 22:27:57 +0100
>> 
>> Steven Allen <steven <at> stebalien.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Is adding the following to `dictionary-search-interface' not sufficient?
>> >
>> >     :initialize 'custom-initialize-changed
>> >
>> > That would apply the `dictionary-search-interface' setting if and only
>> > if specified by the user while still alowing the user to, e.g., use the
>> > customize interface.
>> 
>> Ah yes, seems even better than my patch since it also makes it possible
>> to set dictionary-search-interface before loading dictionary.el, thanks!
>> 
>> Eli, does this seem OK for the release branch?
>> 
>> diff --git a/lisp/net/dictionary.el b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
>> index 58c2e9771ba..42fb8c57b40 100644
>> --- a/lisp/net/dictionary.el
>> +++ b/lisp/net/dictionary.el
>> @@ -317,6 +317,7 @@ dictionary-search-interface
>>                        dictionary-read-dictionary-function)
>>                       vals))
>>           (set-default-toplevel-value symbol value))
>> +  :initialize #'custom-initialize-changed
>>    :version "30.1")
>
> Don't you mean custom-initialize-set?

No, I don't: custom-initialize-set calls the :set function if the symbol
does not have a default-toplevel-value, which is when the option is
initialized while loading dictionary.el.  So using this :initialize
function does not fix the recipe Steve provided in the original post.

> If I'm missing something, please describe what will happen in the
> various scenarios when dictionary-search-interface and the other
> related options are customized, whether by setq or via Custom, and
> when they are not customized the first time dictionary.el is loaded.
> When we understand all the effects of this, we can reason whether the
> change is safe for the emacs-30 branch (which it better be, since
> these options were introduced in Emacs 30, AFAIR).

With custom-initialize-changed we get the following:

- If you customize the other options but not dictionary-search-interface
  before loading dictionary.el, then your settings persist (they are not
  overridden) after loading dictionary.el.  If you later customize
  dictionary-search-interface, then it affects does the other options,
  as expected.
- If you do customize dictionary-search-interface before loading
  dictionary.el, then it does set the other options when you load
  dictionary.el, whether or not you've also set the other options (so it
  doesn't make sense to customize both dictionary-search-interface and
  the other options, you either customize dictionary-search-interface or
  individual options).

So AFAICT it's safe in the sense that it facilitates use cases that
currently do not work (customizing the other options before loading
dictionary.el) without prohibiting any existing use case.


Best,

Eshel

Message #32 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:02:04 +0200

> From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
> Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com,  74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2024 07:30:35 +0100
> 
> With custom-initialize-changed we get the following:
> 
> - If you customize the other options but not dictionary-search-interface
>   before loading dictionary.el, then your settings persist (they are not
>   overridden) after loading dictionary.el.  If you later customize
>   dictionary-search-interface, then it affects does the other options,
>   as expected.
> - If you do customize dictionary-search-interface before loading
>   dictionary.el, then it does set the other options when you load
>   dictionary.el, whether or not you've also set the other options (so it
>   doesn't make sense to customize both dictionary-search-interface and
>   the other options, you either customize dictionary-search-interface or
>   individual options).
> 
> So AFAICT it's safe in the sense that it facilitates use cases that
> currently do not work (customizing the other options before loading
> dictionary.el) without prohibiting any existing use case.

Thanks, so please install on the emacs-30 branch.

Message #35 received at 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com, 74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74511: 31.0.50; `dictionary-search-interface' overrides the
 user's customization of `dictionary-read-word-function'
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:09:25 +0100

close 74511 30.1
quit

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
>> Cc: steven <at> stebalien.com,  74511 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2024 07:30:35 +0100
>> 
>> With custom-initialize-changed we get the following:
>> 
>> - If you customize the other options but not dictionary-search-interface
>>   before loading dictionary.el, then your settings persist (they are not
>>   overridden) after loading dictionary.el.  If you later customize
>>   dictionary-search-interface, then it affects does the other options,
>>   as expected.
>> - If you do customize dictionary-search-interface before loading
>>   dictionary.el, then it does set the other options when you load
>>   dictionary.el, whether or not you've also set the other options (so it
>>   doesn't make sense to customize both dictionary-search-interface and
>>   the other options, you either customize dictionary-search-interface or
>>   individual options).
>> 
>> So AFAICT it's safe in the sense that it facilitates use cases that
>> currently do not work (customizing the other options before loading
>> dictionary.el) without prohibiting any existing use case.
>
> Thanks, so please install on the emacs-30 branch.

All right, done in commit 0a753603a53, and closing the bug.

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