From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:03:37 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7367: 24.0.50; change logs in source code Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7367 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 7367@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.128942180113652 (code B ref -1); Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:44:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2010 20:43:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHVp-0003Y9-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:43:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHVn-0003Y3-IV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:43:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaN-0002Zn-8l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:40037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaN-0002Zj-6Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:03 -0500 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40548 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PGHaM-0001pk-6i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaK-0002Z7-Qn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:02 -0500 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:53202) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaK-0002YY-Lf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:00 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oAAKltqJ020266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:47:57 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oAAKQqMV017607 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:47:54 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 766808601289421977; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:17 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.219.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:16 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:20 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 Thread-Index: AcuBGFQsF6qWJyjBTey+41TyUSLeuw== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) emacs -Q Visiting wdired.el, I see that this is the complete content of the `Change log:' entry: ;; Google is your friend (previous versions with complete changelogs ;; were posted to gnu.emacs.sources) Please restore the normal, helpful, user-friendly source-file change logs that were in the author's file. Emacs users should be able to get the info they need by consulting only the source code. They should not need any Internet access, in particular. This seems like just laziness on the part of Emacs development. But is also an anti-user policy. (And stop selling Google. Although I agree that googling can be helpful.) Other files have similar cop-out text. In ffap.el the `Change log:' entry tells you to go ftp the change log (and to go hunt for the place to ftp it from). Users should not need Internet access to get hold of the source-file change logs. At the very least, they should be able to visit another local file. And that file location should be clearly indicated in the source library, so a simple find-file-at-point will go there. Emacs source files contain lots of text such as `Todo list' that is less important than change-log history. Users deserve better than telling them to go search the Internet for change history. Change logs are not just for Emacs developers' internal use. They are for users. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-11-09 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:03:37 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7367: 24.0.50; change logs in source code Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:40:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7367 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 7367@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7367-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7367.128949354615076 (code B ref 7367); Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:40:03 +0000 Received: (at 7367) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2010 16:39:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGaAz-0003v7-Nf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:39:05 -0500 Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.214.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGaAx-0003uZ-B2 for 7367@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:39:04 -0500 Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so2124502bwz.3 for <7367@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:43:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mRuXxTb5wIOtNtVYje8AccB+Y3qWVnQ1cjBx6X3uGWA=; b=QBBZZv1lWTigIkEtV7tomA1ZmW4NVseuysKPPFrpW+HjdC/L4CdJ8p+AC5jH+ovV5m PubYch7pGjhEVE6bUiONsX3hcJW65cggFFZgL+0WgDrqq220lO4aEkBcNFyb7FfyI3At /qpCGxrWaJHu0dxJ87xcqUdkwBJDJrFE1z850= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IobEai8axVbp4oGhVhIve65Ak4Yh6/lg+r85FpRdrp8T5puquorTmSG3AmnnyrW8F2 KWFuonBWIcsP+8efAQxXCAKBSXaSnEyIK2bImFmi9wLlRdAX7QgeTWW7GMBA56sjioGz Em+b4QhtlnjqVINkw1JCe1R1WNXxySAZNqCm0= Received: by 10.204.113.195 with SMTP id b3mr1613033bkq.210.1289493828916; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (176.119.broadband10.iol.cz [90.177.119.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm1043731bki.13.2010.11.11.08.43.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:43:47 -0800 (PST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:20 -0800") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:42:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87oc9vg6c8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: [...] > Please restore the normal, helpful, user-friendly source-file change > logs that were in the author's file. Emacs users should be able to get > the info they need by consulting only the source code. They should not > need any Internet access, in particular. >=20=20 > This seems like just laziness on the part of Emacs development. > But is also an anti-user policy. [...] > Emacs source files contain lots of text such as `Todo list' that is less > important than change-log history. Users deserve better than telling > them to go search the Internet for change history. > > Change logs are not just for Emacs developers' internal use. > They are for users. They are neither. They're completely useless. Just to provide a different opinion: I never saw a useful `Change Log:' section in any of (quite a lot of) Elisp libraries I've seen (Emacs core or third party), so I definitely welcome their absence. It's mostly just noise, because the change descriptions alone are not very telling. I'm only interested in the kind of information you get from version control systems (i.e., commented diffs), not something like "Added feature foo" or "Fixed bug in bar". (I can see that a short summary of user-visible changes since the last version might be useful for third-party libraries, but that's obviously not what Drew has in mind here (just have a look at the humongous change logs in his own libraries :-))) FWIW, I also find `Todo:' more, not less, important than `Change Log:'. =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:03:37 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7367: 24.0.50; change logs in source code Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7367 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: "=?UTF-8?Q?'=C5=A0tep=C3=A1n?= Nemec'" Cc: 7367@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7367-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7367.128949475115657 (code B ref 7367); Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 7367) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2010 16:59:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGaUR-00044U-5W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:59:11 -0500 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGaUP-00044P-Rp for 7367@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:59:10 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oABH3s9n001757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:03:55 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oABCUBO9001130; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:03:52 GMT Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 770834601289495029; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:03:49 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:03:47 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <87oc9vg6c8.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:03:46 -0800 Message-ID: <5DC618A15B0C46E4A3907092DCEAFA7E@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87oc9vg6c8.fsf@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcuBv581j5uxVDJJSpuajXl0OcqijAAAZdyg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) Hey, why not give users only Internet links for the source code too while you're at it? Why bother to give them the source code for local use? Better yet, just tell them to search the Internet for it. Change log info, like any info, can be of variable quality/utility. It is info about the source code, just like comments (and diffs) are, and as such it can be useful to at least some users. Just like comments, it can inform you about implementation and design logic - the intentions behind what is there currently. The point is not that all change logs provide great info; the point is that users deserve to have the info locally, whatever it is and however useful it might be. They should not be shoved off to search the Internet. From unknown Sat Sep 13 13:03:37 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#7367: closed (Re: bug#7367: 24.0.50; change logs in source code) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 7367 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: wontfix Reply-To: 7367@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 19:01:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1310238062-4878-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1310238062-4878-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #7367: Restore wdired comments removed by the author 5 years ago; also old = commentary removed from ffap 13 years ago which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 7367@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 7367: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D7367 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1310238062-4878-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 7367-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2011 19:00:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfcl9-0001Ff-HI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:00:11 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfcl7-0001FB-Ic for 7367-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:00:10 -0400 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35787) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfcl1-0007CO-Pb; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:00:03 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 7367-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7367: 24.0.50; change logs in source code References: <87oc9vg6c8.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spook: world domination industrial espionage Exon Shell ASPIC X-Ran: Q/`q`>8R|!*BiwzvprC(3$U,vyvoc"A,}dcE2B};YvQ2Pt-%!LTZ:NJ/|Tkey/\2zAP7x$ X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:00:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87oc9vg6c8.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?B?IsWgdMSbcMOhbiBOxJtt?= =?utf-8?B?ZWMiJ3M=?= message of "Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:42:15 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7367-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) I see no point in keeping this report open. The author of the file was the one who removed his own comments. http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/lisp/wdired.el?root=emacs&r1=1.8&r2=1.9&pathrev=MAIN 2005-04-11 Juan Leon Lahoz Garcia The original comments can be found using VC, and aren't very useful: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/lisp/wdired.el?revision=1.1&root=emacs&view=markup&pathrev=MAIN ------------=_1310238062-4878-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2010 20:43:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHVp-0003Y9-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:43:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHVn-0003Y3-IV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:43:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaN-0002Zn-8l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:04 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:40037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaN-0002Zj-6Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:03 -0500 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40548 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PGHaM-0001pk-6i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaK-0002Z7-Qn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:02 -0500 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:53202) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PGHaK-0002YY-Lf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:48:00 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oAAKltqJ020266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:47:57 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oAAKQqMV017607 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 20:47:54 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 766808601289421977; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:17 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.219.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:16 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; change logs in source code Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:46:20 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 Thread-Index: AcuBGFQsF6qWJyjBTey+41TyUSLeuw== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) emacs -Q Visiting wdired.el, I see that this is the complete content of the `Change log:' entry: ;; Google is your friend (previous versions with complete changelogs ;; were posted to gnu.emacs.sources) Please restore the normal, helpful, user-friendly source-file change logs that were in the author's file. Emacs users should be able to get the info they need by consulting only the source code. They should not need any Internet access, in particular. This seems like just laziness on the part of Emacs development. But is also an anti-user policy. (And stop selling Google. Although I agree that googling can be helpful.) Other files have similar cop-out text. In ffap.el the `Change log:' entry tells you to go ftp the change log (and to go hunt for the place to ftp it from). Users should not need Internet access to get hold of the source-file change logs. At the very least, they should be able to visit another local file. And that file location should be clearly indicated in the source library, so a simple find-file-at-point will go there. Emacs source files contain lots of text such as `Todo list' that is less important than change-log history. Users deserve better than telling them to go search the Internet for change history. Change logs are not just for Emacs developers' internal use. They are for users. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-11-09 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' ------------=_1310238062-4878-1--