From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Krystian Samp Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 11:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.172527714028485 (code B ref -1); Mon, 02 Sep 2024 11:39:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2024 11:39:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46304 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl5Od-0007PC-AQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 07:38:59 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42918) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Vw-0004ce-TQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:42:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Ux-0002rc-DI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:41:27 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x634.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::634]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Uv-00023F-2l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:41:26 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x634.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-201d5af11a4so34976975ad.3 for ; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 03:41:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725273683; x=1725878483; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZuC+MFeUPska4bh26mdhslqQkvm8wxuFVmuQsf4oXfE=; b=VkDUh2b8gK7GeRQtlokNA+mTplBV9UpNDiox5TvH+IocLmmccUVCCeQmQ0yuIy8zid kYI/5PV4X/D/wBops9IA5vfLPU/cToRWRMrul9qqXvvmLrxhvE9Z/HZ5ylo1cD1aRdA1 1TnePwm/RaJBgeKqha0FTqscMcqGO9JP9OAYiMiuiD4tgmcsuy+ebmU0pxrjUBDymgl4 BZcQeVU8hpThTcE0c304c9oYZH0qfjlBlzDrik8xEGsO+KGZ2iFTIKUschju08krQilr IhGzrPpMHVTAgCDA8+QOh9DXXk+ecPs5jGcL6apXT/Iof2/Haqqv3nU59foe3pTyfyBG i24Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725273683; x=1725878483; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZuC+MFeUPska4bh26mdhslqQkvm8wxuFVmuQsf4oXfE=; b=WcE+y11n3/SKbZyChdI0LJf/hFPWgCQneD5IECnajmh1KkasNT3pXmlnBU/9+IWSnI 4Pw2PBzMBZRzOpV7zcWNGVxUXRUx3YBcNCtpRs0m6zDoBOHiELJtfLx2C/c4cdIzHWtG 8aZMyMozBQzqH8iFNXDNoHKe90Zg4tHvVOoAshsc/HTna4k3/qcTtuMtlsfMldgPaPcK jkE3oLFSwYIVfG2TXWEOxD6Tg3Y9jmEH6hIUcLkPv4VKYIxH5ttf6vV++t1vwUy1/3be a5ZrecH9FYWUtUoW8aY+JJ2bjfyDLfBmAb760Vv/Ntk3930YPgjJIK2TipLFvFHG2n94 0kCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxbwA/6/xP+pAxHyCHbOCv6KRng2pbsCYhO2SgIT0azdwg6/Fh/ Bksf3pHqAXL9OD6Cz29Z1F5aSKewVw5nlgxfviA7q/UPrS3QUGCeBw3FERj8ZlztNuhqBWeS+AA /yqLmmMSg3d0P7XQGZnvv9Xp9U2G6F0zVUnk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGYf8V5oha0QrZFEDnl7KiEIj37xSDcG60i67tBlw6gcL4lZZnjamyVZ6CnTMAQKlh1eHdzD9LfnysfoocomBw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e74a:b0:202:3a49:acec with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20545e441bcmr93927585ad.11.1725273683103; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 03:41:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Krystian Samp Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000599c5062120953d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::634; envelope-from=samp.krystian@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x634.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 07:38:55 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --0000000000000599c5062120953d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests that when using package-install, Emacs might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, which doesn=E2= =80=99t seem to match my experience. Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using package-install takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init files [...]" >From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el directly, which is how I interpret the documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes the installed packages available, automatically. I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that warrants a documentation change. If so, I'll be happy to create a patch. Looking forward to your thoughts. Krystian --0000000000000599c5062120953d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I was reading the sec= tion on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section 28.8) in the = Emacs manual, and I encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The tex= t suggests that when using package-install, Emacs might automatically add i= nitialization code to the init.el file, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to match= my experience.

Specifically, the manual states: &= quot;Installing a package using package-install takes care of placing the p= ackage=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and al= so writes the necessary initialization code into your init files [...]"= ;

From my understanding, package-install does not = modify init.el directly, which is how I interpret the documentation above. = Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes the installed packages = available, automatically.

I want to check if this = is a valid concern / interpretation that warrants a documentation change. I= f so, I'll be happy to create a patch.

Looking= forward to your thoughts.
Krystian
--0000000000000599c5062120953d-- From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 12:05:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Krystian Samp , Philip Kaludercic Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.1725278693716 (code B ref 72961); Mon, 02 Sep 2024 12:05:03 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2024 12:04:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46960 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl5nh-0000BP-Fo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 08:04:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl5nf-0000B6-VG for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 08:04:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sl5mb-0004nJ-Br; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 08:03:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=RoghBBMa/O6rchGxHDZV2E+gL2zA/EWuDv9iVUptrjg=; b=Ccyo5Iw/GhKtJuaUFIEW yJOW/CuD6xz+KKG3noqNMK6cbkR+OBLgj51kvOEaoLyhW+V2+3cYx0X254iouF+xycDZpOb+fdgLD LVj1vIsZYgllLkEurnQf013k376uTNPMj03oPVI+0pmdeAMtLXQ1E4Nx29dOBuSH7OOiY7Nn6RJN1 86AvjZo5ghzeNOlRjaPs24NLvIjuROqn6er3dmp5+iYP7TsnbvR3rZiMw3yW8WrTQYyiZBs5dYr60 mJfzBZdGROH44go4hKOK3riTWISVo0XQu+6zXrqDX1IoD9vcbkE3obTMax0rNJh3Ci5oNUra+DPVS DRr+HgI3O1YHlg==; Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 15:03:42 +0300 Message-Id: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Krystian Samp on Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200) References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Krystian Samp > Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200 > > I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I > encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests that when using package-install, Emacs > might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, which doesn’t seem to match my experience. > > Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using package-install takes care of placing the package’s > Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init > files [...]" > > From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el directly, which is how I interpret the > documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes the installed packages available, > automatically. > > I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that warrants a documentation change. If so, I'll be > happy to create a patch. Is package-quickstart.el considered "init file" or not? And I add Philip to this discussion, as he knows the package.el code better than I do. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 18:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Krystian Samp , 72961@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.17253030535370 (code B ref 72961); Mon, 02 Sep 2024 18:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2024 18:50:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52263 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1slC8b-0001OX-26 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:50:53 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:56003) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1slC8Z-0001OA-2Y for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:50:52 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CDD7240027 for <72961@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 2 Sep 2024 20:49:42 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1725302983; bh=xaeQoFusYY2ioUe8/xMtJ3YH/xNfIbNmxhhft7/8bio=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=OGUhl6O8As4YI8/5wKwWH2tzRNjrTULsNZ2uu3QiV/EAqNPk5kwBZDNZhiMcQBWCf UpqpXZ8g88y4VgfIN5ingAa/dtdnrr74wuvZPNSEmfl7JhzjWMwfYAq5U3dcWHuwnU 32IeJQR/KQxbVtGvtjMxC9h55LTsJDny30AwnFvulKuwizoRG36I8KGnhAWEv5Q8lP tV2XTg288I/S3/gGbZL+eQhhrifzlf7NdD2qNWOAkNSSmXV/n+dqsBS0yM/K1HiwtO XN8E8phOnuABb+LyM+YhwILDn/Gfb0kdd4sf1Ws/i3WQcQhrZA7EXdxpNYzmwHu1cc W0Nvt1EX8avkg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4WyHqT4XNQz9rxG; Mon, 2 Sep 2024 20:49:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 02 Sep 2024 15:03:42 +0300") References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM OpenPGP: id=philipk@posteo.net; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-email/philipk@posteo.net"; preference=signencrypt Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 18:49:40 +0000 Message-ID: <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Krystian Samp >> Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200 >>=20 >> I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section= 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I >> encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests that w= hen using package-install, Emacs >> might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, which d= oesn=E2=80=99t seem to match my experience. >>=20 >> Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using package-ins= tall takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s >> Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the = necessary initialization code into your init >> files [...]" >>=20 >> From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el directly,= which is how I interpret the >> documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes= the installed packages available, >> automatically. >>=20 >> I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that warrant= s a documentation change. If so, I'll be >> happy to create a patch. > > Is package-quickstart.el considered "init file" or not? > > And I add Philip to this discussion, as he knows the package.el code > better than I do. I believe the documentation here is just outdated. From NEWS.27: ** Installed packages are now activated *before* loading the init file. As a result of this change, it is no longer necessary to call 'package-initialize' in your init file. Previously, a call to 'package-initialize' was automatically inserted into the init file when Emacs was started. This call can now safely be removed. Otherwise it might also refer to the fact that user option `package-selected-packages' is saved, which by default will be stored in the default Emacs configuration file.=20 --=20 Philip Kaludercic on peregrine From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Krystian Samp Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 04:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philip Kaludercic Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.17255110017713 (code B ref 72961); Thu, 05 Sep 2024 04:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 04:36:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35860 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm4Ea-00020K-I5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 00:36:41 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f179.google.com ([209.85.210.179]:42461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1slxxV-0001XQ-4a for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Sep 2024 17:54:38 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f179.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-7176645e440so66387b3a.1 for <72961@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:53:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725486747; x=1726091547; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=pWILSVqNV+/SO6JAre4CQcKEdpzLAc8ewTejUAsdB94=; b=LXGxgkxBCr+ELkj/7OLsg5OGc2Hcr9Hn/MfnfCcCxgw8IOipHxtcIapWorMPyP8MLj UIoqOUMKcTZSCRbhi3o3fDnBUkmpED9rlF823fSVGa2hfqqYjoxG1q/ZMpF13FVx1OFf AbOAgG3QXhjd+1IQxgoddf7Ud6BnDlK+n3DCUI/52FmvpYcgAUHh2W62ySrZ5MXtFG43 fZpjQaYFrNHHm/rCfF1XfehCiepzB/Pzg5dWLhsiYuyJeX8ajQz64F3YE4S4IZS/IWYu Nws4CVA7FfEqs+OHMhVPDnQx0Uw/6001HqexFFrexLFHIAvIYJIzJmQriZo8tr0DAEjd Ncug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725486747; x=1726091547; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=pWILSVqNV+/SO6JAre4CQcKEdpzLAc8ewTejUAsdB94=; b=qH5BJeGKQqn8idl7VzOh1TYx0peoMuqodnGVktIbXtSUs8yb9kjciPkTHAF6jiRuIb jc54wo8GGLTLIoV6No237HaAqJ0aIMMBuuTUpMu544XBpgMrX95JirCl+OoeVRJgCVST z5/yc2DYgSpU/XfvGhRvQ7aDLdWc+gclQszh4iEksCe4mDaoGdgHZzqHQgBWGEd2j6L3 WJkijIigq8RIOjuSb77y1r998oYSD5nhmDPcYozBBj6vUtCp7X1o4iGMYKs/kti0SmJc BTzn8vDheX/mhHT6U+llKgC6S8zieVF9AOp5XIuVmWMZJYXrsogwNxANQCDPSIDarKtV Wzkg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVXRSaQh1rT5wVOTeT8OmHTXwbFidlCjZ0b+I3GPw2m1lsVza73q2xjyMYYxjiQ2KEsrps6Zg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzRLVYwNwnI3wFDdJ1HNeCvKsjHE8SceY/26h1TZ7lMdpI3cD54 W13Jq7F9+ttXl6MpEsPXezfJj4JD5YeAPOx0S9TTKaJt9daO72QFE+gfqADKKwthSsQaI5QNdJI BiIeLa+6YHTg2h8ok1aZoKfv+Zbg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHyi913bAoUdHDBdaS7+aoge5nlYYxSsSjJF7CH3XbMezhC4b+1yOePYebSB5ReAn8XNOqBCf8bfZRRRhc96HE= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9185:0:b0:70e:cf99:adc7 with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-7177a91f814mr5386952b3a.3.1725486746614; Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:52:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> In-Reply-To: <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> From: Krystian Samp Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 23:52:15 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000098de4a06215230e0" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 00:36:39 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --00000000000098de4a06215230e0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000098de4806215230de" --00000000000098de4806215230de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also note that the preceding paragraph in 28.8 talks about the need to 'load' or 'require' libraries that you want to make available at startup. So reading in the very next paragraph: "[...] and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init files" sets the expectation that package-install will write 'load' or 'require' into the init file. On the other hand in another part of the manual (49.3): "Installed packages are automatically made available by Emacs in all subsequent sessions". This is simpler and more accurate imho, and doesn't suggest the init files are altered in any way. I'd propose to make a simple change in 28.8 that is consistent with 49.3: Original: "Note that installing a package using package-install (see Package Installation) takes care of placing the package's Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init files, making the above manual customizations unnecessary" Proposed: =E2=80=9CNote that installing a package using package-install (see Package Installation) takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a d= irectory where Emacs will find it. Installed packages are automatically made available by Emacs in all subsequent sessions, making the above manual customizations unnecessary.=E2=80=9D Does this make sense? Thanks, Krystian On Mon, 2 Sept 2024 at 20:49, Philip Kaludercic wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Krystian Samp > >> Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200 > >> > >> I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" > (section 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I > >> encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests that > when using package-install, Emacs > >> might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, which > doesn=E2=80=99t seem to match my experience. > >> > >> Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using > package-install takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s > >> Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes th= e > necessary initialization code into your init > >> files [...]" > >> > >> From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el > directly, which is how I interpret the > >> documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which > makes the installed packages available, > >> automatically. > >> > >> I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that > warrants a documentation change. If so, I'll be > >> happy to create a patch. > > > > Is package-quickstart.el considered "init file" or not? > > > > And I add Philip to this discussion, as he knows the package.el code > > better than I do. > > I believe the documentation here is just outdated. From NEWS.27: > > ** Installed packages are now activated *before* loading the init file. > As a result of this change, it is no longer necessary to call > 'package-initialize' in your init file. > > Previously, a call to 'package-initialize' was automatically inserted > into the init file when Emacs was started. This call can now safely > be removed. > > Otherwise it might also refer to the fact that user option > `package-selected-packages' is saved, which by default will be stored in > the default Emacs configuration file. > > -- > Philip Kaludercic on peregrine > --00000000000098de4806215230de Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Also note that the preceding paragraph in 28.8 talks = about the need to 'load' or 'require' libraries that you wa= nt to make available at startup. So reading in the very next paragraph: &qu= ot;[...] and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init f= iles" sets the expectation that package-install will write 'load&#= 39; or 'require' into the init file.

On th= e other hand in another part of the manual (49.3): "Installed packages= are automatically made available by Emacs in all subsequent sessions"= . This is simpler and more accurate imho, and doesn't suggest the init = files are altered in any way.

I'd propose to m= ake a simple change in 28.8 that is consistent with 49.3:

Original:
"Note that installing a package using pack= age-install (see Package Installation) takes care of placing the package= 9;s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the= necessary initialization code into your init files, making the above manua= l customizations unnecessary"

Proposed:
=

=E2= =80=9CNote that installing a package using package-install (see Package Ins= tallation) takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a dire= ctory where Emacs will find it. Installed packages are automatically made a= vailable by Emacs in all subsequent sessions, making the above manual custo= mizations unnecessary.=E2=80=9D


Does this make= sense?

Thanks,
Krystian

<= /div>

On Mon, 2 Sept 2024 at 20:49, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Krystian Samp <samp.krystian@gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200
>>
>> I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emac= s" (section 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I
>> encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests = that when using package-install, Emacs
>> might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, w= hich doesn=E2=80=99t seem to match my experience.
>>
>> Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using = package-install takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s
>> Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also write= s the necessary initialization code into your init
>> files [...]"
>>
>> From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el dir= ectly, which is how I interpret the
>> documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which= makes the installed packages available,
>> automatically.
>>
>> I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that w= arrants a documentation change. If so, I'll be
>> happy to create a patch.
>
> Is package-quickstart.el considered "init file" or not?
>
> And I add Philip to this discussion, as he knows the package.el code > better than I do.

I believe the documentation here is just outdated.=C2=A0 From NEWS.27:

=C2=A0 ** Installed packages are now activated *before* loading the init fi= le.
=C2=A0 As a result of this change, it is no longer necessary to call
=C2=A0 'package-initialize' in your init file.

=C2=A0 Previously, a call to 'package-initialize' was automatically= inserted
=C2=A0 into the init file when Emacs was started.=C2=A0 This call can now s= afely
=C2=A0 be removed.

Otherwise it might also refer to the fact that user option
`package-selected-packages' is saved, which by default will be stored i= n
the default Emacs configuration file.

--
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
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The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 72961@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 72961: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D72961 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1725517802-9422-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 72961-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 06:29:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm60C-0002RG-TA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:29:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm60B-0002Qk-En for 72961-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:29:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sm5vM-0002tm-Jn; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:24:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=etiGv3GlNhabeX7DNhPXK95iOihly4aZTrFHqBauido=; b=ilpsHQxUfxzb enp4L7NDLOAH4I8ntEJgZSzNforIL3Jhbrq8/PCU2LbYUL5Jq9Bq+5AL+7vGiS4okgXSPYHEx5kOF h/jiRpzyXJ48KzCidnOWtac9UQx1/nGgKYfDp3kAg+aHpWZd7VxbG/9jnJzr/+BoGB6AITjhGL+md 3nGiuliDSHCj/AGhwGJ98J7Jcoy0IjISCtSUom+kwSOM6abgeXRu68LGb3Rceq11yfzOx3KTBBQCc Ff7u7EWsEjlgEyvOgNJ7R7ncqKXRhdliAGbIyXvYWOJ/2dLLYxrArzJJzBiCK9Nrq0z57itsjs4W0 sGNV8RgoRlhjlj3uhqgZlQ==; Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:24:54 +0300 Message-Id: <86plpi4nyh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Mon, 02 Sep 2024 18:49:40 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72961-done Cc: samp.krystian@gmail.com, 72961-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic > Cc: Krystian Samp , 72961@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 18:49:40 +0000 > > I believe the documentation here is just outdated. From NEWS.27: > > ** Installed packages are now activated *before* loading the init file. > As a result of this change, it is no longer necessary to call > 'package-initialize' in your init file. > > Previously, a call to 'package-initialize' was automatically inserted > into the init file when Emacs was started. This call can now safely > be removed. > > Otherwise it might also refer to the fact that user option > `package-selected-packages' is saved, which by default will be stored in > the default Emacs configuration file. Thanks, I've updated the text accordingly on the emacs-30 release branch, and I'm therefore closing this bug. ------------=_1725517802-9422-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2024 11:39:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46304 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl5Od-0007PC-AQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 07:38:59 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42918) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Vw-0004ce-TQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:42:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Ux-0002rc-DI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:41:27 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x634.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::634]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sl4Uv-00023F-2l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 06:41:26 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x634.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-201d5af11a4so34976975ad.3 for ; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 03:41:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725273683; x=1725878483; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZuC+MFeUPska4bh26mdhslqQkvm8wxuFVmuQsf4oXfE=; b=VkDUh2b8gK7GeRQtlokNA+mTplBV9UpNDiox5TvH+IocLmmccUVCCeQmQ0yuIy8zid kYI/5PV4X/D/wBops9IA5vfLPU/cToRWRMrul9qqXvvmLrxhvE9Z/HZ5ylo1cD1aRdA1 1TnePwm/RaJBgeKqha0FTqscMcqGO9JP9OAYiMiuiD4tgmcsuy+ebmU0pxrjUBDymgl4 BZcQeVU8hpThTcE0c304c9oYZH0qfjlBlzDrik8xEGsO+KGZ2iFTIKUschju08krQilr IhGzrPpMHVTAgCDA8+QOh9DXXk+ecPs5jGcL6apXT/Iof2/Haqqv3nU59foe3pTyfyBG i24Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725273683; x=1725878483; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ZuC+MFeUPska4bh26mdhslqQkvm8wxuFVmuQsf4oXfE=; b=WcE+y11n3/SKbZyChdI0LJf/hFPWgCQneD5IECnajmh1KkasNT3pXmlnBU/9+IWSnI 4Pw2PBzMBZRzOpV7zcWNGVxUXRUx3YBcNCtpRs0m6zDoBOHiELJtfLx2C/c4cdIzHWtG 8aZMyMozBQzqH8iFNXDNoHKe90Zg4tHvVOoAshsc/HTna4k3/qcTtuMtlsfMldgPaPcK jkE3oLFSwYIVfG2TXWEOxD6Tg3Y9jmEH6hIUcLkPv4VKYIxH5ttf6vV++t1vwUy1/3be a5ZrecH9FYWUtUoW8aY+JJ2bjfyDLfBmAb760Vv/Ntk3930YPgjJIK2TipLFvFHG2n94 0kCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxbwA/6/xP+pAxHyCHbOCv6KRng2pbsCYhO2SgIT0azdwg6/Fh/ Bksf3pHqAXL9OD6Cz29Z1F5aSKewVw5nlgxfviA7q/UPrS3QUGCeBw3FERj8ZlztNuhqBWeS+AA /yqLmmMSg3d0P7XQGZnvv9Xp9U2G6F0zVUnk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGYf8V5oha0QrZFEDnl7KiEIj37xSDcG60i67tBlw6gcL4lZZnjamyVZ6CnTMAQKlh1eHdzD9LfnysfoocomBw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e74a:b0:202:3a49:acec with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-20545e441bcmr93927585ad.11.1725273683103; Mon, 02 Sep 2024 03:41:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Krystian Samp Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 12:41:11 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000599c5062120953d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::634; envelope-from=samp.krystian@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x634.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 07:38:55 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --0000000000000599c5062120953d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I was reading the section on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section 28.8) in the Emacs manual, and I encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The text suggests that when using package-install, Emacs might automatically add initialization code to the init.el file, which doesn=E2= =80=99t seem to match my experience. Specifically, the manual states: "Installing a package using package-install takes care of placing the package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the necessary initialization code into your init files [...]" >From my understanding, package-install does not modify init.el directly, which is how I interpret the documentation above. Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes the installed packages available, automatically. I want to check if this is a valid concern / interpretation that warrants a documentation change. If so, I'll be happy to create a patch. Looking forward to your thoughts. Krystian --0000000000000599c5062120953d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I was reading the sec= tion on "Libraries of Lisp Code for Emacs" (section 28.8) in the = Emacs manual, and I encountered a passage that seems a bit unclear. The tex= t suggests that when using package-install, Emacs might automatically add i= nitialization code to the init.el file, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to match= my experience.

Specifically, the manual states: &= quot;Installing a package using package-install takes care of placing the p= ackage=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and al= so writes the necessary initialization code into your init files [...]"= ;

From my understanding, package-install does not = modify init.el directly, which is how I interpret the documentation above. = Instead, Emacs calls package-initialize which makes the installed packages = available, automatically.

I want to check if this = is a valid concern / interpretation that warrants a documentation change. I= f so, I'll be happy to create a patch.

Looking= forward to your thoughts.
Krystian
--0000000000000599c5062120953d-- ------------=_1725517802-9422-1-- From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 06:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Krystian Samp Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.172551841912371 (code B ref 72961); Thu, 05 Sep 2024 06:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 06:40:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm6AE-0003DS-6y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:40:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm60D-0002Qk-6P for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:29:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sm5w8-00039R-Gf; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:25:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=mVpWOY4eA3hxnLYQEPFQRCZjk+QDpZiYyOI7d/aEJrg=; b=ITlukgDoNUpINfZENpng Y2szYRMpBU71ODj1k+uBYaRYJdc2pSDADk4HqDl4XXkKV85Ajc3ZrbjcMeo/4t3ggyCy5Pn9vTPmf YotMXKJHl60WicmaPRlLwn8ISqG8jI0aIqNzY+7hkRlZKMLmrdlcoo1XjNfim+vfeSXvU+e/cgBrG c0zPF9ptf+LSbd+idbdrqu+eTL6CyJHvzoWnGyqfbm4KqkO9v6QsYvXdm64tOrYnmtG+zK57eZcAl /Y/+yUYHP/bc8WqyN5W+Ww0Ffct9g81juamfJ8g43+Fd2b9NFn+jP+sJKn5QOpMTfrkwHSBfIt8gU Vl56zCKb6qoBfw==; Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:25:43 +0300 Message-Id: <86o7524nx4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Krystian Samp on Wed, 4 Sep 2024 23:52:15 +0200) References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Krystian Samp > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 23:52:15 +0200 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 72961@debbugs.gnu.org > > I'd propose to make a simple change in 28.8 that is consistent with 49.3: > > Original: > "Note that installing a package using package-install (see Package Installation) takes care of placing the > package's Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also writes the necessary initialization code into > your init files, making the above manual customizations unnecessary" > > Proposed: > > “Note that installing a package using package-install (see Package Installation) takes care of placing the > package’s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it. Installed packages are automatically made available > by Emacs in all subsequent sessions, making the above manual customizations unnecessary.” Thanks, I modified the text slightly differently. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Krystian Samp Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 08:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.172552472011363 (code B ref 72961); Thu, 05 Sep 2024 08:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 08:25:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36086 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm7nr-0002xA-7D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 04:25:20 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f181.google.com ([209.85.210.181]:52707) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm7CO-0008WT-I1 for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 03:46:37 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-7143ae1b48fso300639b3a.1 for <72961@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 00:45:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725522266; x=1726127066; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=W6DvoI4ARm4WVb9lhzk3FOk+AwN8f5aFSgfEQsAQZRg=; b=E9heCE5wFk5f+pFt282hncJqLGvMG05XMp1LwbX05wH+sRP9tfY455DYs7elVUb9vA 9ib3hRTA/dvJMRyEWDZ085qtB2wZzG1tivsm9ogloNSFVSKZtspNsTGYFbGeJ+VgnOpC GzD4Aoqt7uxEnyJKVNN1q8T78OIlhd6DHxzuXd9lxCzheyehccsCX7ZVdxC9+vvt2xvk QTzEec0JaSth9UTR00SQ9vBzIVT/e+YVPfGsRUC6BjDvO0fNUj5lfRXT0eFU/7LzgZQQ YcSe5V+XGDcsHbmlVp6owgUSOwXFkM+tz3IWKbst1gC8nYEixGsS6zFcrNqnk+mKS9uJ Gqfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725522266; x=1726127066; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=W6DvoI4ARm4WVb9lhzk3FOk+AwN8f5aFSgfEQsAQZRg=; b=SSoRGUYZVTPoBCVM5tj8WuF/fQSufUhWQydKDOr+cWPQQA1BTw9x4bCkBrUrxC/Nf6 IRWhVc8mkH6xU62ZK4GgSaw40vG+4mA15NgeGGaFwdrAWA6d/5bqrQEFyZy0oB/NqE0F 01BzA3TUEOIGFIVogsfECDlifdMi9ad9hVH0fytdz2gh8Iad6qfCRLuiZusj1tllWaaL hXcdOBejH2L+JNIRrVrgk0WjE9s/D49bUYPbb10E6twkEj5TNbmZUaLFp0One3+7HTA6 FDrY4gmoW5bI7rNHdPRDrv9Loi06XQlPtD5Ig1cmsM3tJDCJ5RwLxxN15D47gLZUVWcn xBAg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWP27k7zfC8pgX1o4jJj5HZNQKiTtu8tkztNhv6H9543JY0BDOpd66+pzu7JhqeQwbg6ex0Cg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx6k0m8d5hXfbFW7MSkWyxs3NlpsB7RpFf/cGavSmPJqlO5cCVY nbjGQJEETI+QBTEltcY7WTmuoUnoiKAT21y3q4jxEUn7Bt8hQf+cFui8RcYs3P7ok3GbszcZFWe HjNXtlDFZMcQP/Sho3o+DyZchqRw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG/PyL1XzbIeIs0BpMTUOtVtsTN4R8E4ON7WpVKyPOH+lu3VAD8kFsVvnQgQUQROf419lCILRX90oalEuoS+o8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:6b0c:b0:1c3:b1e2:f826 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1cece5d1548mr16808553637.35.1725522265420; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 00:44:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> <86o7524nx4.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <86o7524nx4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Krystian Samp Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 09:44:14 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aebc2806215a7513" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000aebc2806215a7513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, imho it'd be also useful to add there that Emacs will make the installed packages available automatically at startup. Now it reads that Emacs will add them to `load-path` but I wouldn't infer from this that Emacs will also make these packages available. And right after that we say that "... making the above manual customizations unnecessary for such packages" which specifically refers to loading, not only adding to `load-path`. Just two cents, K On Thu, 5 Sept 2024 at 08:25, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Krystian Samp > > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 23:52:15 +0200 > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 72961@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > I'd propose to make a simple change in 28.8 that is consistent with 49.= 3: > > > > Original: > > "Note that installing a package using package-install (see Package > Installation) takes care of placing the > > package's Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and also > writes the necessary initialization code into > > your init files, making the above manual customizations unnecessary" > > > > Proposed: > > > > =E2=80=9CNote that installing a package using package-install (see Pack= age > Installation) takes care of placing the > > package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it. I= nstalled > packages are automatically made available > > by Emacs in all subsequent sessions, making the above manual > customizations unnecessary.=E2=80=9D > > Thanks, I modified the text slightly differently. > --000000000000aebc2806215a7513 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks,

imho it'd be also useful to= add there that Emacs will make the installed packages available automatica= lly at startup. Now it reads that Emacs will add them to `load-path` but I = wouldn't infer from this that Emacs will also make these packages avail= able. And right after that we say that "...=C2=A0making the above manual cu= stomizations unnecessary for such packages" which specifically refers = to loading, not only adding to `load-path`. Just two cents,
K

= On Thu, 5 Sept 2024 at 08:25, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> From: Krystian Samp <samp.krystian@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 23:52:15 +0200
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, 72961@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> I'd propose to make a simple change in 28.8 that is consistent wit= h 49.3:
>
> Original:
> "Note that installing a package using package-install (see Packag= e Installation) takes care of placing the
> package's Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it, and = also writes the necessary initialization code into
> your init files, making the above manual customizations unnecessary&qu= ot;
>
> Proposed:
>
> =E2=80=9CNote that installing a package using package-install (see Pac= kage Installation) takes care of placing the
> package=E2=80=99s Lisp files in a directory where Emacs will find it. = Installed packages are automatically made available
> by Emacs in all subsequent sessions, making the above manual customiza= tions unnecessary.=E2=80=9D

Thanks, I modified the text slightly differently.
--000000000000aebc2806215a7513-- From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Krystian Samp Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.172552749625567 (code B ref 72961); Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:12:01 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 09:11:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36143 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm8We-0006eJ-A8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 05:11:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm8Wc-0006e2-Gz for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 05:11:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sm8VT-0005Kj-2p; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 05:10:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YfEZlkwxzVkii1H3i/KjjBcyggGeexFg/tswdL097+k=; b=i0v0VJMR5LdQ Ykk1HUjb0AhwSEItIhxyDUs5WP5MkMqeoci1uNxow+SK6uP4fVM3wL6L+VFKo4+61EIGnxvGr9rEd IEk5XnIGlj8RUdAf6ChaAd/sId/hU2cmDRhs8CjB0TdUUmeUdaOWJOeHQpJYDddsleD2iHtFEIGDN tEEYwwZ+iClgk1J+hZP4C5qtFIvPjo7f5YGBmy39XjX8GXvQtjNtCXsU/jcAHLAELV2n4a91autOT cOoyrJftgsgNsN7+UXZRCGmmcmxkaWl+isUNDOZPV9OLg9TBhyz8++8pGiTwbsKKgRdl/LzD9Qwh9 u5fKP8BiCU5dI2mrb14Ejg==; Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 12:10:08 +0300 Message-Id: <86frqe4gb3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Krystian Samp on Thu, 5 Sep 2024 09:44:14 +0200) References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> <86o7524nx4.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Krystian Samp > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 09:44:14 +0200 > Cc: philipk@posteo.net, 72961@debbugs.gnu.org > > Thanks, > > imho it'd be also useful to add there that Emacs will make the installed packages available automatically at > startup. Now it reads that Emacs will add them to `load-path` but I wouldn't infer from this that Emacs will also > make these packages available. And right after that we say that "... making the above manual customizations > unnecessary for such packages" which specifically refers to loading, not only adding to `load-path`. Just two > cents, All of this is already described in the node "Package Installation", to which this node points. Cross-references in the manual are there for a reason: interested readers are expected to follow them and to read what the referenced nodes say. We don't have the same information in more than one place in the manual because that would make it a maintenance burden: all of those places have to be found and updated when something changes. Our conventions are to describe each feature in full in a single place, and then have cross-references to that one place in other related places. So I decided not to expand on this more in the sections which is only tangentially related to package installation. This text is there so as to avoid creating an impression that what this node describes must be done for packages installed via package.el. It doesn't (and should not) pretend to describe installation via package.el. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72961: Possible documentation improvement: Clarification for package installation Resent-From: Krystian Samp Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72961 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 72961@debbugs.gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net Received: via spool by 72961-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72961.172552834129307 (code B ref 72961); Thu, 05 Sep 2024 09:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 72961) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2024 09:25:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm8kH-0007cd-6W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 05:25:41 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com ([209.85.210.47]:58564) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sm8kA-0007c9-4i for 72961@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 05:25:39 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-70f6118f1b5so423207a34.0 for <72961@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:24:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725528203; x=1726133003; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cxJ9iYqab0au2rcKCCNgqy/c6BPSY2iWX0EYujm0zvI=; b=fjt+OwxNRctln+uqYwOUy7+CCRHDvu2W1oNZL/Ua1jtatSckddeSfI9zb7AwDCEbKw NfJ4micJ46KI4n1nR3ZeL8vuEzTjJWNSJ/USjy6n6FuUZ48jOx3YJ/CzNSuVuCVmejys zwrbK71ZC7/rQLIoNvoTcc3i62BYlLuVGdqnfpuvJJyhQ4V37EHQC+fmXbLAqFpoMAjI 5+Epv7Vgr5iSzXElhgCxJ+n8cqbQqTtn7T2bn3vwQjzIJVRMlyiBMsLvrTfHIbswYzrw DSyFtPpvrBFzVedKJ/YFxCDHxMLyyAocZ4+e67AkyUvPgMXu1sphkrjzHGGltnBas2Po Dstg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725528203; x=1726133003; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=cxJ9iYqab0au2rcKCCNgqy/c6BPSY2iWX0EYujm0zvI=; b=Py1rCmqkt/Va4OpBzJMUcgdJ+1yih1uReUKZkm8Qgancrqmd2/AR8lfy7ni/+bSUCB /cd28QRccyau0J6X6MPBNwQgXB4rSfzRSa7+LhSUjUWkleS7Kf2gCFxA/idez8oZsRYv 9ugeFxyc0U6lmf0ZcJXCfGPebM3N1FcEb7ejgmBpejeoBHgA/3TkCxMVWeCYG+0kVvVv SSfHbV1nHwyG3q3Ahc5++E/e5FhNplZQ55BkS0F9jVwdeA7vwU4TI1UwlglKp7nkCt30 DxhqeQ5YOjSCbeINZuUD31xogz7kh3fbgIgSGCZa6Um2s5RqsUw8Lq44lRG15o34FFrb yxdA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW36IpqZBYHbj3TFH0q2fB1B+rQDT3rnABsTlqAwBACdcS5088+KbtouR9kiltrft/4A91JPw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyK5B8531RFUQMtA/+dgNRedBn0Ecz3+oL+WKBpS1meJqdONx6o HT0+jrMj9Ipe3PCY1XM49U9kZP+C1LeDMj3F+uV4PJ1KjsATv1XpZczMkx2/2SygK1t0g5FxCZW s4ReRvKD1Pj6njNMZuPOTdMTely1d3JNA X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGu9RH5TE2ZQ1uOG/50nytfVHVbeDfKE4j6UOhAB4WxxMGZJ71ZLDN8ys59zAUnJldYVLSnsw9P/zUD7q5Q6O0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:6f97:b0:1aa:bad6:2ba7 with SMTP id e5c5f4694b2df-1b7ef7776f4mr2327335655d.25.1725528203536; Thu, 05 Sep 2024 02:23:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86r0a28dpd.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikvdgabf.fsf@posteo.net> <86o7524nx4.fsf@gnu.org> <86frqe4gb3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <86frqe4gb3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Krystian Samp Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 11:23:12 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f318406215bd761" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000009f318406215bd761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail. On Thu, 5 Sept 2024 at 11:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Krystian Samp > > Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 09:44:14 +0200 > > Cc: philipk@posteo.net, 72961@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Thanks, > > > > imho it'd be also useful to add there that Emacs will make the installed > packages available automatically at > > startup. Now it reads that Emacs will add them to `load-path` but I > wouldn't infer from this that Emacs will also > > make these packages available. And right after that we say that "... > making the above manual customizations > > unnecessary for such packages" which specifically refers to loading, not > only adding to `load-path`. Just two > > cents, > > All of this is already described in the node "Package Installation", > to which this node points. Cross-references in the manual are there > for a reason: interested readers are expected to follow them and to > read what the referenced nodes say. We don't have the same > information in more than one place in the manual because that would > make it a maintenance burden: all of those places have to be found and > updated when something changes. Our conventions are to describe each > feature in full in a single place, and then have cross-references to > that one place in other related places. > > So I decided not to expand on this more in the sections which is only > tangentially related to package installation. This text is there so > as to avoid creating an impression that what this node describes must > be done for packages installed via package.el. It doesn't (and should > not) pretend to describe installation via package.el. > --0000000000009f318406215bd761 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain th= is in detail.

On Thu, 5 Sept 2024 at 11:10, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> From: Krystian Samp <samp.krystian@gmail.com>= ;
> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2024 09:44:14 +0200
> Cc: philipk@po= steo.net, 72= 961@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Thanks,
>
> imho it'd be also useful to add there that Emacs will make the ins= talled packages available automatically at
> startup. Now it reads that Emacs will add them to `load-path` but I wo= uldn't infer from this that Emacs will also
> make these packages available. And right after that we say that "= ... making the above manual customizations
> unnecessary for such packages" which specifically refers to loadi= ng, not only adding to `load-path`. Just two
> cents,

All of this is already described in the node "Package Installation&quo= t;,
to which this node points.=C2=A0 Cross-references in the manual are there for a reason: interested readers are expected to follow them and to
read what the referenced nodes say.=C2=A0 We don't have the same
information in more than one place in the manual because that would
make it a maintenance burden: all of those places have to be found and
updated when something changes.=C2=A0 Our conventions are to describe each<= br> feature in full in a single place, and then have cross-references to
that one place in other related places.

So I decided not to expand on this more in the sections which is only
tangentially related to package installation.=C2=A0 This text is there so as to avoid creating an impression that what this node describes must
be done for packages installed via package.el.=C2=A0 It doesn't (and sh= ould
not) pretend to describe installation via package.el.
--0000000000009f318406215bd761--