From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 11:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Stefan Monnier X-Debbugs-Original-To: Emacs Bug Report Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.17247586021721 (code B ref -1); Tue, 27 Aug 2024 11:37:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Aug 2024 11:36:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46138 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siuV8-0000Rg-H5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:36:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:56788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siuV6-0000RZ-Bs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:36:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siuUF-0004ak-Gf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:35:47 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siuUD-00021A-Pb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:35:47 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5334fdabefbso4713393e87.1 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 04:35:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1724758543; x=1725363343; darn=gnu.org; h=to:cc:date:message-id:subject:mime-version:from:sender:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qBfk+BMtPCHNNr4uZjMnc3BkLs9ydXl1Qr1FZWNz+gI=; b=V8sd91R8ZvWTNih1BP2RreI7BNi2CnbdT7zpxiTdYts32qsjiQmdBTzU388GW2cmkX 2GPSb59g5dmOMFd9FFrL1MiY8gzrT1PlWuT5tXCLCxBdsfKAOXd3vAgEqrSVT+ny0p/V s2VcuInCkaHod26egT+rwQV0AfBCdLNqDBMkERf48pdBf/jTI9Hv+IrNM8ZSBlnxEgnU sD/PoDiRAZZTqrScd5v/Hu6AmKadHMWBPcUFmK2rWNwJ+jAUNHuZlFwLlb6duSXaQjbX OVWZvIIoJTG+j0H2SaXdOT2g56MAduIp2ONBHNLmlWOhwiWZnRWHGZ2bMvmNtdNrHBgJ djxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1724758543; x=1725363343; h=to:cc:date:message-id:subject:mime-version:from:sender :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qBfk+BMtPCHNNr4uZjMnc3BkLs9ydXl1Qr1FZWNz+gI=; b=C62NYzaN0tmGVuR27PtpuarkJvlLXEigvBAg9FfacXu6GC7CEIp9ahkb6nCCKs68iv VtHLpAfj9+fj9GvS+lpoUgsLfo1xp4Ke7qTSsfse1prUMKL/Kqehj4Lhb7G15OUewYWK uGo613xcCOt1QNIqXi6aiGlNfrKJ54joiOMvj+A6QxtufNSfgX9LqwpTdZN2j+WV+/hW 4obS/MhAC585Hp93VuRrgF5f1bNEt5xINeyB0ILm57/CX5QKfxHSOVl8slw1knuwbUvD RTLLRmxqkj7mtSaabsrOWjRUDqcVOfBonA7EcnfGbAihcFZKW9XO38Xggo7HLt1AanMV /PRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzfF3sEBlsWhin0doONP4oxitW6oFmFsi1EpD6zzYMxbUgZqvJ9 nUSrxFoABYZtII5OJPDARPFVZMNQ0cjo0Lay8/3Yav1yU95usl5u+4c8/Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGGEgcQ9POPFnyJdIXUqjml+4PjK2G769FTPla5zrVe8r/w325xnuYX0RVJpvw1ryIo4KbzCg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:159b:b0:52b:aae0:2d41 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5344dd8d14dmr899694e87.28.1724758542695; Tue, 27 Aug 2024 04:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-191-82.bredband.tele2.se. [188.150.191.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-5334ea36c31sm1738203e87.99.2024.08.27.04.35.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Aug 2024 04:35:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3FD76543-F40D-4911-B12E-71E51A8208B0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Message-Id: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:35:41 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12f; envelope-from=mattias.engdegard@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --Apple-Mail=_3FD76543-F40D-4911-B12E-71E51A8208B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii `describe-function` sometimes gives incorrect information about when = certain functions were first introduced. NEWS.unknown can be used to fix = some problems but it only works in one direction and is unable to help = when a function name appears too early. A robust solution would be to make NEWS* use a mark-up like = @function{some-name} instead of just 'some-name' but meanwhile, here is = a simple patch that replaces NEWS.unknown with a more structured file. = This fixes the case for `always`. --Apple-Mail=_3FD76543-F40D-4911-B12E-71E51A8208B0 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Better-ad-hoc-Emacs-release-of-symbol-introduction-o.patch Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-unix-mode=0644; name="0001-Better-ad-hoc-Emacs-release-of-symbol-introduction-o.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom=20bfa7f11acb8aeeeaa07af29ec18dd30f77e933b3=20Mon=20Sep=2017=20= 00:00:00=202001=0AFrom:=20=3D?UTF-8?q?Mattias=3D20Engdeg=3DC3=3DA5rd?=3D=20= =0ADate:=20Mon,=2026=20Aug=202024=2017:18:25=20+0200=0A= Subject:=20[PATCH]=20Better=20ad-hoc=20Emacs=20release=20of=20symbol=20= introduction=20override=0A=0AThe=20file=20etc/symbol-releases.eld=20now=20= contains=20explicit=20version=0Ainformation=20for=20selected=20symbols=20= that=20our=20NEWS*=20scraper=20doesn't=0Aresolve=20correctly.=0A=0A*=20= etc/NEWS.unknown:=20Remove=20this=20file,=20replaced=20with...=0A*=20= etc/symbol-releases.eld:=20...this=20new=20file.=0A*=20lisp/help-fns.el=20= (help-fns--first-release-override)=0A= (help-fns--mention-first-function-release)=0A= (help-fns--mention-first-variable-release):=20New.=0A= (help-fns--mention-first-release):=20Try=20the=20override=20information=20= first=0Abefore=20scraping=20the=20NEWS*=20files.=0A---=0A=20= etc/NEWS.unknown=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20|=2031=20= -------------------------------=0A=20etc/symbol-releases.eld=20|=2036=20= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=0A=20lisp/help-fns.el=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20|=2033=20++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-----=0A=203=20files=20= changed,=2064=20insertions(+),=2036=20deletions(-)=0A=20delete=20mode=20= 100644=20etc/NEWS.unknown=0A=20create=20mode=20100644=20= etc/symbol-releases.eld=0A=0Adiff=20--git=20a/etc/NEWS.unknown=20= b/etc/NEWS.unknown=0Adeleted=20file=20mode=20100644=0Aindex=20= eafdc953cac..00000000000=0A---=20a/etc/NEWS.unknown=0A+++=20/dev/null=0A= @@=20-1,31=20+0,0=20@@=0A-This=20file=20contains=20mentions=20of=20= functions=20and=20variables=20whose=0A-version=20of=20introduction=20= would=20otherwise=20be=20guessed=20incorrectly=0A-by=20'M-x=20= describe-function'.=0A-=0A-Since=20much=20of=20early=20Emacs=20source=20= history=20is=20lost,=20these=20versions=20are=0A-conservative=20= estimates:=20the=20actual=20version=20of=20first=20appearance=20may=20= very=0A-well=20be=20much=20earlier.=0A-=0A-*=20Changes=20in=20Emacs=20= 19.7=0A-**=20'defsubst'=0A-=0A-*=20Changes=20in=20Emacs=2018.59=0A-**=20= 'mark'=0A-=0A-*=20Changes=20in=20Emacs=2013.8=0A-This=20may=20be=20the=20= earliest=20surviving=20version=20with=20source=20code,=20although=0A= -damaged.=20=20See=0A= -https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/decuslib.com/decus/vax85b/= gnuemax=0A-=0A-**=20'nthcdr'=0A-**=20'nreverse=0A-**=20'let*'=0A-**=20= 'rassq'=0A-**=20'>=3D'=0A-**=20'transpose-sexps'=0A-**=20= 'buffer-modified-p'=0A-**=20'current-column'=0A-**=20'downcase'=0A-**=20= 'previous-line'=0A-**=20'catch',=20'throw'=0A-**=20'count-lines'=0Adiff=20= --git=20a/etc/symbol-releases.eld=20b/etc/symbol-releases.eld=0Anew=20= file=20mode=20100644=0Aindex=2000000000000..dc991ae5747=0A---=20= /dev/null=0A+++=20b/etc/symbol-releases.eld=0A@@=20-0,0=20+1,36=20@@=0A= +;;=20Emacs=20versions=20when=20certain=20symbols=20and=20variables=20= were=20first=20introduced,=0A+;;=20for=20use=20in=20`describe-function'.=0A= +;;=0A+;;=20This=20file=20is=20used=20to=20explicitly=20override=20the=20= heuristic=20scraping=20NEWS*=0A+;;=20files,=20when=20that=20would=20= result=20in=20misleading=20information.=0A+;;=0A+;;=20It=20should=20= contain=20a=20single=20list=20of=20(VERSION=20TYPE=20SYMBOL),=20where=0A= +;;=20VERSION=20is=20the=20Emacs=20version=20when=20SYMBOL=20was=20= introduced=20as=20a=20TYPE,=0A+;;=20TYPE=20being=20`fun'=20or=20`var'.=0A= +=0A+(=0A+=20("28.1"=20fun=20always)=0A+=0A+;;=20Since=20much=20of=20= early=20Emacs=20source=20history=20is=20lost,=20these=20versions=20are=0A= +;;=20conservative=20estimates:=20the=20actual=20version=20of=20first=20= appearance=20may=20very=0A+;;=20well=20be=20much=20earlier.=0A+;;=2013.8=20= may=20be=20the=20earliest=20surviving=20version=20with=20source=20code,=20= although=0A+;;=20damaged.=20=20See=0A+;;=20= https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/decuslib.com/decus/vax85b/g= nuemax=0A+=0A+=20("19.7"=20fun=20defsubst)=0A+=20("18.59"=20fun=20mark)=0A= +=20("13.8"=20fun=20nthcdr)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20nreverse)=0A+=20= ("13.8"=20fun=20let*)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20rassq)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20= >=3D)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20transpose-sexps)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20= buffer-modified-p)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20current-column)=0A+=20("13.8"=20= fun=20downcase)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20previous-line)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20= catch)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20throw)=0A+=20("13.8"=20fun=20count-lines)=0A= +=20)=0Adiff=20--git=20a/lisp/help-fns.el=20b/lisp/help-fns.el=0Aindex=20= 8a2ae79736f..3d3b841d827=20100644=0A---=20a/lisp/help-fns.el=0A+++=20= b/lisp/help-fns.el=0A@@=20-869,6=20+869,21=20@@=20= help-fns--first-release-regexp=0A=20=20=20=20=20))=0A=20=0A=20=0A+(defun=20= help-fns--first-release-override=20(symbol=20type)=0A+=20=20"The=20first=20= release=20defining=20SYMBOL=20of=20TYPE,=20or=20nil.=0A+TYPE=20indicates=20= the=20namespace=20and=20is=20`fun'=20or=20`var'."=0A+=20=20(let*=20= ((sym-rel-file=20(expand-file-name=20"symbol-releases.eld"=20= data-directory))=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(tuples=0A+=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20(with-temp-buffer=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (ignore-errors=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (insert-file-contents=20sym-rel-file)=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20(goto-char=20(point-min))=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20(read=20(current-buffer))))))=0A+=20=20=20=20(unless=20(cl-every=20= (lambda=20(x)=20(and=20(=3D=20(length=20x)=203)=20(stringp=20(car=20= x))))=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= tuples)=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20(error=20"Bad=20%s=20format"=20= sym-rel-file))=0A+=20=20=20=20(car=20(rassoc=20(list=20type=20symbol)=20= tuples))))=0A+=0A=20(defun=20help-fns--first-release=20(symbol)=0A=20=20=20= "Return=20the=20likely=20first=20release=20that=20defined=20SYMBOL,=20or=20= nil."=0A=20=20=20;;=20Code=20below=20relies=20on=20the=20etc/NEWS*=20= files.=0A@@=20-949,16=20+964,24=20@@=20help-fns--first-release=0A=20;;=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20(display-buffer=20(current-buffer)))))=0A=20=0A=20= (add-hook=20'help-fns-describe-function-functions=0A-=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20#'help-fns--mention-first-release)=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20#'help-fns--mention-first-function-release)=0A=20(add-hook=20= 'help-fns-describe-variable-functions=0A-=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= #'help-fns--mention-first-release)=0A-(defun=20= help-fns--mention-first-release=20(object)=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20#'help-fns--mention-first-variable-release)=0A+=0A+(defun=20= help-fns--mention-first-function-release=20(object)=0A+=20=20= (help-fns--mention-first-release=20object=20'fun))=0A+=0A+(defun=20= help-fns--mention-first-variable-release=20(object)=0A=20=20=20;;=20= Don't=20output=20anything=20if=20we've=20already=20output=20the=20= :version=20from=0A=20=20=20;;=20the=20`defcustom'.=0A=20=20=20(unless=20= (memq=20'help-fns--customize-variable-version=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20help-fns--activated-functions)=0A-=20=20=20=20= (when-let=20((first=20(and=20(symbolp=20object)=0A-=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (help-fns--first-release=20object))))=0A+=20=20=20=20= (help-fns--mention-first-release=20object=20'var)))=0A+=0A+(defun=20= help-fns--mention-first-release=20(object=20type)=0A+=20=20(when=20= (symbolp=20object)=0A+=20=20=20=20(when-let=20((first=20(or=20= (help-fns--first-release-override=20object=20type)=0A+=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (help-fns--first-release=20object))))=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (with-current-buffer=20standard-output=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= (insert=20(format=20"=20=20Probably=20introduced=20at=20or=20before=20= Emacs=20version=20%s.\n"=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20first))))))=0A--=20=0A2.32.0=20(Apple=20= Git-132)=0A=0A= --Apple-Mail=_3FD76543-F40D-4911-B12E-71E51A8208B0-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.17250990946023 (code B ref 72829); Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:12:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2024 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skL4v-0001Z2-Ez for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 06:11:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skL4t-0001Yq-4p for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 06:11:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1skL3r-0001OO-AB; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 06:10:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=XurbGOx4zJZboGfPmiKEhJZNYACVuiAcn8xH+n5d8Eo=; b=ByB1pmQuHd05IC8fqSUO Bd48UYgxlqrDCLRGoqAIknJxZowLxKe2MKsDmWnnpESl7gg8qRI56bwwJdJnlEcbQB23JX5a1rOrb omwhD8bPPUvnkOedOBrNcrwk8CjIW4mWrYLrteeyIHBAnR63UOZzOMovtX1J7kbrgYelY/OvSYEqy qs98YKuAsgkgVhahlQ8ywHasxmEFJiWtU3PdUeOToxugq5x55sS4fgKqvZTIyj2PMGYhOMsm5dD2I zjYuqdL0e9NeD6fYDsTsHt/rviHd0nA8WjjhdzVfBfwFaVbHw7ek0OVD5du3mQ2l0i/ueHDGo4HPI MMeaH3OjHE4QBQ==; Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:10:24 +0300 Message-Id: <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> (message from Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:35:41 +0200) References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: Stefan Monnier > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 13:35:41 +0200 > > `describe-function` sometimes gives incorrect information about when certain functions were first introduced. NEWS.unknown can be used to fix some problems but it only works in one direction and is unable to help when a function name appears too early. > > A robust solution would be to make NEWS* use a mark-up like @function{some-name} instead of just 'some-name' but meanwhile, here is a simple patch that replaces NEWS.unknown with a more structured file. This fixes the case for `always`. Thanks, I think I'm okay with this approach. Should we perhaps mention this in some admin/notes/ files, like perhaps the procedure described in make-tarball.txt? Stefan, any comments? From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 14:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.17251132571460 (code B ref 72829); Sat, 31 Aug 2024 14:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2024 14:07:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55339 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skOlM-0000NU-K4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:07:36 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:62286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skOlK-0000NC-K6 for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:07:34 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1395C100064; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:06:31 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1725113189; bh=/FNx9NEPeHYiBSo1hYUFnlUOJEuKn36Py8v3Uf6GYg4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=YjiiWv4fxSrLTdKqqduq4H0kym7/lK5AfQRWX6Qk4WrUsSqjWOaWp9pU1qeoH6gnF znJjjBRyrG1til6ol9SaZ5MSAKFDsr0oW/NTbl9Axeeppow9pTqOqwVAAJIE3ZRuax lZtsrIMg8HZY/RuSWq5WUqSCrnWs4KyOg/+VlKxDMCoaluRBUK+gUetTxQgKMOzWmp xdhWhMNHmghLvUAalPHJGRxAkIiEzPttiawcCOrbky7rxWdBKoeIPLS4wKtQxgFrjJ DbXM0Hyc0lD4k8di2MBOETOBnWQaFtsYGjiJEJkL9v6XnFcEEsmK3+nMfNOBZ6eDbQ kH+Rl4H45UFng== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C92A5100042; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.9.87]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6EA7212046C; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:10:24 +0300") Message-ID: References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:06:27 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.108 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Stefan, any comments? No, that looks fine to me. Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 17:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.172512455623485 (code B ref 72829); Sat, 31 Aug 2024 17:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2024 17:15:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skRhb-00066j-Sp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:15:56 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-f174.google.com ([209.85.208.174]:47401) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skRha-00066M-BA for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:15:54 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f4f505118fso33012921fa.3 for <72829@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:14:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725124430; x=1725729230; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1xIF35Ma3Nd/bkXTAd7d2FmkHIrr0/b/0KNXUob7Flw=; b=CGEMAoWN5nzpm/QL63NJPDj2IVHtlvIKo0MMMuiRpHFVOj4BaxwoealLINGTduWnKm JQhaNj+kFnx4c1eZ4WGixuAqErRzBu8rjkYGkkMfndBRcw4S6ADxcaKmhHKnIGeygoAU Ld4ATA+Q5+M+bj68wwEoZI/r4LDin8ic8b5LaQXK5ENK+tFeL04Nv1kwRrtDhni90POs 5ziShZ448B70s5uyUzy8tg6mZ+kz1MejQp3cbbMBaqK8O3Q9OuOW8Gt+tUyqqMdOfU8Y JpPXPQiVStIUU/g9y80eucadDzU9Ps6y/X9uigORXgJzkdw5ZRVw+EMwesFfK63Q0TLU 8nDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725124430; x=1725729230; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1xIF35Ma3Nd/bkXTAd7d2FmkHIrr0/b/0KNXUob7Flw=; b=X37M7xSu26anjAtj8AsasHlGk/4uh4eSzpZVO3q9zjgjp4yJ0y0tIiQTulG6mVVIfn lE8nN6wCULWSlOTRUNmv3RSN2U67iK6aUrj65rkzEkCJp4No5RjgdNh+3oM78fN4+4es wcI8gkVprVUwDYtf/XsATI0gT8E8+M6dfOi+Qp7zVGZsCgGTNpv8/WCWM8ksAv6/7Ver K2YwUv/vzAXdNj7prbXsgAVfUQ5Wd1j4ByudN2x/g/5xRvqJGiv3DU0MZWfA696AFjmg 7h0RO4WKsYZUyyHAY55qeHCu/DZPcp1jKJnhsPiLq9XWMSSgudxaXq8uVENQBk/wOq4S q3Vg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUKRElyRMvHVVmKoWTzkhLEIxGE88ziU+bemIuhOyui0Bv3KeRm7aksUyVAFtwi6yy+ix+7Sw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxu7kb0u9h821w3RHZXfUY+8R+vXjo1PSUXwdKGvhyVKXtHZ0qr a5350Lvkv+ggJOYFEi3tquiYyGWN0WXgMw9Nr7nC8WSQ4aoey6QB X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHweMKcML6xdT4GxyTEgT8w8uZMb677DKsqFszLjn3MePopCz+CoStqzrQ6SEj48alxTxRveQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:751:0:b0:2ef:2061:8bf5 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f6265e96dcmr17797171fa.40.1725124429614; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-191-82.bredband.tele2.se. [188.150.191.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-2f614f00931sm11191981fa.46.2024.08.31.10.13.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 31 Aug 2024 10:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 19:13:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <34685F4C-B3DE-495C-B657-AD1EA2E2021C@gmail.com> References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 31 aug. 2024 kl. 12.10 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > Should we perhaps mention this in some admin/notes/ files, like > perhaps the procedure described in make-tarball.txt? Not sure what to say and where so I'll leave that for others. This hack = is a bit reactive in nature, but could become a little version database = if we decided to enter new symbols here systematically. Now pushed to master. Maybe it should be back-ported to emacs-30, maybe = not. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 17:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.172512631026839 (code B ref 72829); Sat, 31 Aug 2024 17:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2024 17:45:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56157 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skS9u-0006yp-12 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:45:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skS9s-0006yZ-CT for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:45:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1skS8p-0006P5-CE; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 13:44:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=yNL3fxMP+B0WFHt1PsI4bVy5LZhKdAp1UYLZjxEWRd0=; b=b0ayGgLPQrOHsMMFKna6 dfUUmKcGJ2u4IRYvsRbWuUZylCwFzDk+0uuWmZF5oYTWzhuv6i+IhcUezyoU1ltGG74w4emB5ReS4 MyxVenSJNMcImjrmkbSZ/X+UT++rL7Ko1lW5gcx3v2RLo9MqzmcP6UMcTE2oIFLwkQBV18cDdtrDv zoC6jB4UULmerzzoxG6q7arTMvIUGZb4bj7qfu26BlkUaFoin/idB8BeIrwamEXw2zwvBJ8pn1S4V jEu0kq3qowR9gFeqWs1uwxYh3mbnTZLsibBF90sNhFKQCasnolYhSfwc/Y7mAVbGswUTqa0oNFjaT J0yLh0KdfphSAA==; Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 20:43:59 +0300 Message-Id: <865xrgbna8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <34685F4C-B3DE-495C-B657-AD1EA2E2021C@gmail.com> (message from Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 31 Aug 2024 19:13:48 +0200) References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> <86ttf1atpr.fsf@gnu.org> <34685F4C-B3DE-495C-B657-AD1EA2E2021C@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 19:13:48 +0200 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > 72829@debbugs.gnu.org > > 31 aug. 2024 kl. 12.10 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > Should we perhaps mention this in some admin/notes/ files, like > > perhaps the procedure described in make-tarball.txt? > > Not sure what to say and where so I'll leave that for others. This hack is a bit reactive in nature, but could become a little version database if we decided to enter new symbols here systematically. > > Now pushed to master. Maybe it should be back-ported to emacs-30, maybe not. No, it should stay on master. 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Content preview: close 72829 stop Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mattias.engdegard[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.208.181 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.208.181 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.0 BLANK_SUBJECT Subject is present but empty X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) close 72829 stop From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , 72829@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: steve@sanityinc.com, Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.172514334627331 (code B ref 72829); 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Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > `describe-function` sometimes gives incorrect information about when > certain functions were first introduced. NEWS.unknown can be used to > fix some problems but it only works in one direction and is unable to > help when a function name appears too early. > > A robust solution would be to make NEWS* use a mark-up like > @function{some-name} instead of just 'some-name' but meanwhile, here > is a simple patch that replaces NEWS.unknown with a more structured > file. This fixes the case for `always`. This is a welcome change. For symbols that are in symbol-releases.eld, which means we are actually sure about the addition, shouldn't the help text be changed from Probably introduced at or before Emacs version XX.Y. to something more like Added in Emacs version XX.Y. ? I mean, we should be sure about what we put in that file, presumably. Steve Purcell (in Cc) has been maintaining a relatively complete symbol to version database here: https://github.com/purcell/package-lint/blob/master/data/stdlib-changes Note that his version keeps track of also of `feature`s, and not just additions but removals as well. It would be nice if our version could be extended to do the same. Perhaps Steve has some code or ideas that he would be willing to contribute. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2024 01:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , steve@sanityinc.com Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.172515368113128 (code B ref 72829); Sun, 01 Sep 2024 01:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Sep 2024 01:21:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skZHN-0003Pg-9f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:21:21 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:64788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skZHK-0003PR-C8 for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:21:19 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0651B8092C; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:20:13 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1725153611; bh=b7BCGwj4jrkiLClRxxB3uAcA/tdJ2Uw/Rfoi/h03qwg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=nxGIz+72rpuyy/ZH2jQALz2D1vNRCfMVlPfW+2PRD1IL44IVm8lmEFCPjKbFWDpIG oigZeRjJnpbAu0qm/t9ttdEJvKfKjGfagtLKuHIhpiB5s3qrUHMr6m2qMvtUz5URJs L9Gpx+T52b4yTtpmBBEE9RVXwdXa9PA8lBnBChNq72Ln7RiokSGObxbKhNrc3C8izd zJEtC5xly42LmUP7HDeoR4WFhTrYM10Bozpzr1OUqclva8a9uTJEVMuhWNDhYxDdbg 3OvNJnTq90Mg8I7G2IU3s6ZP9WnpuWMcLPpemtVO0V0sMRZggMzqFCciIbQvd6l743 XnvHgqa/cCGhw== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7047A80292; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (104-195-234-246.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.195.234.246]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 36339120409; Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:20:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700") Message-ID: References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 21:20:09 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Note that his version keeps track of also of `feature`s, and not just > additions but removals as well. It would be nice if our version could > be extended to do the same. Perhaps Steve has some code or ideas that > he would be willing to contribute. Maybe we could offer some way to show all the matches in the various NEWS files so the user can see all the changes to the calling convention, the deprecations, etc... Stefan From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2024 04:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, steve@sanityinc.com Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.17251664003691 (code B ref 72829); Sun, 01 Sep 2024 04:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Sep 2024 04:53:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60725 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skcaW-0000xR-BS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 00:53:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skcaT-0000x7-D4 for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 00:53:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1skcZQ-0000bJ-Ms; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 00:52:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=BlcWuAeEweLcRX0h16ycrIlPFmh6V3OORJdPdetfNns=; b=rNI8yKjx2FOf mu0yHrr0O4fj5C7h64QSXH0GMYiBQce6883WvLJi5MbP71hBPCSGtHUbr/y+K0fne1lc1AgLzGDgW JTtzqhEZgKex4hg2bhQhUkRXhr+04r/dy4/mlhcaTiy7aKa9JrUL+ffkF98X5SEgFFsHtHhxKqFyL B+gZ+5DPbdVlnFNdp/BKXFObK4UAXztlCjhbGPYdOsxIaLzPahZkCmplYYDgVxBBRVefhJk75M9qK jT3tj5uySpvFPoKHaUoR25jtf719ivpPPV5ebp/7v+EE6LeCbT7DLECL2/6YYMp3Gre4z+e385BRy r5bzA3QuKsK42k8nAoUKOA==; Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2024 07:52:01 +0300 Message-Id: <86zfos9dse.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700) References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: steve@sanityinc.com, Stefan Monnier > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:58 -0700 > > Steve Purcell (in Cc) has been maintaining a relatively complete symbol > to version database here: > > https://github.com/purcell/package-lint/blob/master/data/stdlib-changes > > Note that his version keeps track of also of `feature`s, and not just > additions but removals as well. It would be nice if our version could > be extended to do the same. Perhaps Steve has some code or ideas that > he would be willing to contribute. I'm not sure I understand how can removals help us in the Help commands. They could be used by a new command, which doesn't yet exist, which would show when was a specified symbol removed and what can be used in its stead, but that command needs to be written first, I think (and I'm not sure it will be used enough to justify it, but that's another matter). From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2024 12:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , steve@sanityinc.com Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.172519224020287 (code B ref 72829); Sun, 01 Sep 2024 12:04:01 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Sep 2024 12:04:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skjJI-0005H8-4z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 08:04:00 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-f180.google.com ([209.85.208.180]:49489) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1skjJF-0005Gu-Ju for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 08:03:58 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f502086419so31237911fa.3 for <72829@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 05:02:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725192112; x=1725796912; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mf2E/SOJgccGn9a17uOsNi/rsfjiz0aIYyfu4+Fu8rE=; b=asZVokNwVpTpitGZ5QrkmWB68yrdIB3l6zNNzqGcCVLlx7bLZcKRza0hLkGDoC/U2o 0ecYtAF7Tz5CArmCYu9ZxUdXzPwPQqWuH3jHq7ia+GOcJjZF4jao92qitJJ7WOd7lYk9 k7RrsV1Py3nzIjc5TGR4wP6V6NlnycC60GpDhiMqHrMgleMnyk6WBbzQYHE/VwJXW3K4 Svn2LsXr8kbATUo9ySitAGnVZ1WQicYiCeLTzKjmKMdpjTEX6ojj2VBu/G7iwHZLDN1x TDRZoZcWt30N+gF6lvabghHFwTJPFIwlhGgMKgXocUyfSBYTyWDLU8ita2av3LRfra5H qkjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725192112; x=1725796912; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mf2E/SOJgccGn9a17uOsNi/rsfjiz0aIYyfu4+Fu8rE=; b=QuuL0qWEMHKdOFvTbcY7oLY9uljRM59mGaHTpOFZzAR7pQ1fLoy7yaOOC7BJCgdZOc iE6ZWDCnkb9KXACeEvNGt4F976kJ1Vd117DWqdLh42zWvNL830qdJ6dPCjf+U9rdFCyR 9rdD+CYi/DEjpuxJDHNxGeYJiUkbloX9f9epuAGkQzPvQKbtAekJAAWOD3CEtGVyzr4X MYONbaZXEVWGGIghFfhlDCy6p0XnDqGVmIi/ibt34INifRdaD93SkZzWRu6n+bFRCc5f k1bEwfB6v1SXu9Epxcys+aJxR1FanGcZSbM2wZNRN+MqaqaJcMgigssFuURHR24n8ov0 mG1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzeYkINfJIynFaDgoo5CzPrDdZQk8ZzpVdT+6BmGqhqHlhZFFve r1C3VdhSTfHqz60Uu8zqPmidtZkuLg2WRDpNIp5AvlFwZVzg8l6I X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF2ko9RZcq8Ixrq+NiyGkIEW92f4W8kpOaHqI5g71TTGdeXrnUxlKAQw6dnGv0hLPvMfxxc8Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:547:b0:2f4:f255:4fd2 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f61092330cmr82648091fa.39.1725192111245; Sun, 01 Sep 2024 05:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-191-82.bredband.tele2.se. [188.150.191.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-2f615171f9dsm13746251fa.97.2024.09.01.05.01.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Sep 2024 05:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) From: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 14:01:49 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9C37E010-B0F8-48EA-9E40-8E26A17BC929@gmail.com> References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 1 sep. 2024 kl. 00.26 skrev Stefan Kangas : > For symbols that are in symbol-releases.eld, which means we are = actually > sure about the addition, shouldn't the help text be changed from >=20 > Probably introduced at or before Emacs version XX.Y. >=20 > to something more like >=20 > Added in Emacs version XX.Y. That's how I did it first but then dropped it for simplicity, but it can = certainly be added back in. The file also contains information about some symbols whose first = appearance is not exactly known but it hardly matters for = non-historians. From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#72829: describe-function NEWS* scraper override Resent-From: Steve Purcell Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 14:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 72829 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Cc: 72829@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by 72829-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B72829.17258930056606 (code B ref 72829); Mon, 09 Sep 2024 14:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 72829) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2024 14:43:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1snfbx-0001iT-Gd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2024 10:43:25 -0400 Received: from mail.purcellpeople.com ([139.162.128.219]:54246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1snfbv-0001iD-7K for 72829@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Sep 2024 10:43:23 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sanityinc.com; s=default; t=1725892992; bh=mw0SvVDh8LhUGfaXbyLoLcRq0MYfV4H9kfSGzEBCkn8=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=JDPeElhAviZWqfXS6/bo9+/eBeyd1q2Z90ajA6ZVi0KjzJw2f+vLQShVdQ3JILXiP O79lq4csand1Mpv87NsifFF9GZK8ZbyD2fF4PgYtkNv912osj5as+v9MUejkZYP7SL zXOXKTxgr8mLjZQw2cRzpP0T3sD5UDVws66oxeXg= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\)) From: Steve Purcell In-Reply-To: <9C37E010-B0F8-48EA-9E40-8E26A17BC929@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 15:43:01 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0F7EAF42-7F20-4087-8EB6-DA64F1D0E7A0@sanityinc.com> References: <79C79924-4870-4E55-9920-3D2C08A1E765@gmail.com> <9C37E010-B0F8-48EA-9E40-8E26A17BC929@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Yep, happy to discuss. The case for removals is that some symbols were = actually removed in one Emacs version and then re-added later. My overall technique is to load everything that I can, dump all the = symbols I found, and then diff those dumps between Emacs versions. Using = my nix-emacs-ci builds makes this straightforward to automate. Not all features shipped with an Emacs build can be loaded in that = build, though, because some rely on native or optional features, e.g. = Windows or Treesitter. As such, it=E2=80=99s hard to get an = authoritative list of all the known symbols. In practice, the lists I=E2=80=99ve generated have been good enough for = package-lint, and I often use the `package-lint-describe-symbol-history` = command when I=E2=80=99m curious about a given symbol. -Steve=