From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 15:27:04 2024 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2024 19:27:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43322 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siItE-00080i-20 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:27:04 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siItB-00080X-Rn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:27:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siIsK-0005ed-7h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:26:09 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siIsH-0002nd-R9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:26:07 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DC363100337; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:26:04 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1724613963; bh=iP7jhR+0grKpJYBqnZJijRKYUyFHN+ygduNPKjRtpIU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=iF87zaRhXNI+GmCXIZNMbu428dPeWSjlpHb4+ibLzR3q1ZLdr+zB+1srkGLbYX7a0 567uQnt3SBibKoWfvVux61u9/xNmkk/gBax5eRY5MGGu/fjhjPaosbrRo9zpcC8FfS fpYqAraJYyHEzHsNFlgMdjguMVtPP06IVqDnAufXQ6PBysjWc61xMkG64lIeYJmYNN Mn1MOUaB29gB4izrTqMKzZndzMi5o+0Drc2KdzGPOJ6YPzgyq5pfKytO3bKgqwdDhA 2+uj67PWXhWpgTtyikDrGTq7lWri0o3Fel9OQ5RWeShlzldZblO6ASU9nr6fug3lVL 8uFf7dz1diNFQ== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id B8F48100064; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.9.87]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CC95120426; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:26:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Damien Cassou Subject: Re: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value In-Reply-To: (Damien Cassou's message of "Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:32:52 +0200") Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:25:56 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.016 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Jay Kamat , 10sr <8.slashes@gmail.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > when a .editorconfig file assigns a value for "indent_size" and no > value for "tab_width", I expect "tab_width" to default to the value of > "indent_size" as described in the documentation [1]. Unfortunately, Yes, I consciously disagreed with the standard here. IMO, this better reflects Emacs's habitual behavior, so it makes more sense for Emacs users. > Possible workarounds: > > 1. One can use MELPA's version of editorconfig instead of the builtin > one; or > 2. One can explicitly set "tab_width" in .editorconfig Indeed, you can already get the "missing" behavior by setting `indent_size` to `tab` and then setting `tab_width` to the desired indentation size. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 25 16:24:17 2024 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2024 20:24:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43366 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siJma-0001Du-TP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:24:17 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1siJmZ-0001Dk-2X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:24:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siJlk-0003G1-H7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from mail.reprendre.net ([193.23.30.35]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1siJli-0001If-IE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 7129D2C9739; Sun, 25 Aug 2024 22:23:16 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cassou.me; s=dkim; t=1724617397; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: in-reply-to:references; bh=aU3+ci4fcdpZb9rWklBdCfVBcQeVmyrlu+xSRu1trlo=; b=R0pEO7Y/LRF44fbx7LbQ6CL+GmdCiE2OFt3c1cx0dKjlTpfgKckMmZ3enFRh1tf16K3WWJ +8bwx7RufRjWIiDG7VXRYTVsFamGBrKsIMRfq4hvKVi8T7qxMAprP+s/Sb38HYbGH+RBKS trW99XPXHakfS5CDnvF8XwBVzckQ+jdFq7noawAnxNzrsMf5/FfTB194ky5YNDO2U/YSsr H2WrNy96Lsk+afjCmcdvoZiviIf6vBdppd5ylF0bZxfRijKQvIoinyei1sF/Au9pFrWdiy 7OYfXEwA+jp6VYJJkVECkNj/QfDkdCBOwDsG1fkf/VpPGHu0NyoWoRXZAIIjQA== From: Damien Cassou To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 22:23:14 +0200 Message-ID: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.23.30.35; envelope-from=damien@cassou.me; helo=mail.reprendre.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Jay Kamat , 10sr <8.slashes@gmail.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hi Stefan, Stefan Monnier writes: >> when a .editorconfig file assigns a value for "indent_size" and no >> value for "tab_width", I expect "tab_width" to default to the value of >> "indent_size" as described in the documentation [1]. Unfortunately, > > Yes, I consciously disagreed with the standard here. IMO, this better > reflects Emacs's habitual behavior, so it makes more sense for Emacs users. > > Indeed, you can already get the "missing" behavior by setting > `indent_size` to `tab` and then setting `tab_width` to the desired > indentation size. The problem is that the .editorconfig file can be shared across users of different editors for a given project. Emacs disagreeing with the standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit everyone. -- Damien Cassou "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 07 03:27:55 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2024 07:27:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54681 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1smprP-0000t4-F1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Sep 2024 03:27:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39474) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1smprN-0000sp-FF for 72808@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 Sep 2024 03:27:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1smprF-0006MR-MM; Sat, 07 Sep 2024 03:27:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=i1hiIrrtakcW21csQMmrqI/qih9jq4MwEe9b2lXJqcM=; b=o3GxpKBCNRZ+ Xwv6ID0FIUVrLyjEGoAM+8C9olu2p4Jeh7GwDBlZIaIRtjiWxxFJKLR3ZAnfPAWp+1GZwuA8nfbMU s9xPPW3vt+XJ78rz0qjWqLPoFHm3R9ISF5ETmmAc4TJojRcLRmYoVGJKjxBKvcWlZIHUW0RLRndH7 FDaYedgVZn3KDU7WKXtiu/kdQiIu+SSxYm5SDn8+i6L/ksktSujXNoZE2ouXZHpF0ty4UrMpMWT7J 6ngZ+kh6q0BI5CjcgWqjWrr9i/j0Sls5mq1sXhQFc3VwbOGsRSjRnpYBGTqmuQLsXmxTuTE8DbIlv J6wT4+eyh6MREedYEWevPg==; Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 10:27:44 +0300 Message-Id: <86h6arzzwv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Damien Cassou In-Reply-To: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> (message from Damien Cassou on Sun, 25 Aug 2024 22:23:14 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com > From: Damien Cassou > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 22:23:14 +0200 > > Hi Stefan, > > Stefan Monnier writes: > >> when a .editorconfig file assigns a value for "indent_size" and no > >> value for "tab_width", I expect "tab_width" to default to the value of > >> "indent_size" as described in the documentation [1]. Unfortunately, > > > > Yes, I consciously disagreed with the standard here. IMO, this better > > reflects Emacs's habitual behavior, so it makes more sense for Emacs users. > > > > Indeed, you can already get the "missing" behavior by setting > > `indent_size` to `tab` and then setting `tab_width` to the desired > > indentation size. > > The problem is that the .editorconfig file can be shared across users of > different editors for a given project. Emacs disagreeing with the > standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their > colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file > that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in > an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, > if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may > quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit > everyone. Stefan, any further comments, or should we close this as wontfix? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 08 07:25:41 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2024 11:25:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58063 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1snG33-0006iP-Hw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:25:41 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:50609) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1snG32-0006iB-HX for 72808@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:25:40 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DA9F9440B66; Sun, 8 Sep 2024 07:25:32 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1725794727; bh=m80Zs0yfoVExCw6jn3e6sNffnYDmFfyUPODsUw9wCEw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=PGOASy2ZKheJqqJCaoGFmJItB9POvo3m65OP6fZBpzY1eHXn4Ecqz9S0Qa9mDNjED XKczqfoUH03KF8A0XTNEXBP7YO33wiLbnChso0YyiOlgqaoGmMx1WT2nrOksBkxeID +o3en5Y2Erl2azG2s50DL1Ry/geQJqtl5y2qdVThL2qJz540z583Wx5iW/2iEfqKBB ybsuM1tqlAl75Riw2xEthB6QpW8R1mx6DYu7kzMVhoK9LkLelIomWcHZiFhVgeX3ve jstiDB0MV7k3QXmEkMN6enwqqPsKIr8Yu2ibCIUddYtizu1s83iSF2HIFRQPRZEXLl KFe5pdPWbtErQ== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 08A9A440AD0; Sun, 8 Sep 2024 07:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from asado (31-131-247-74.ip252.fastwebnet.it [31.131.247.74]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45B4B1203C3; Sun, 8 Sep 2024 07:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value In-Reply-To: <86h6arzzwv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 07 Sep 2024 10:27:44 +0300") Message-ID: References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> <86h6arzzwv.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:25:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -1.026 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: Damien Cassou , 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> The problem is that the .editorconfig file can be shared across users of >> different editors for a given project. Emacs disagreeing with the >> standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their >> colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file >> that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in >> an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, >> if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may >> quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit >> everyone. > Stefan, any further comments, or should we close this as wontfix? I think Damien's argument makes a lot of sense. I think mine makes sense as well. I can't really judge which one will work out more often right, but as the writer of the code I decided to try out my choice. But I don't have a really strong opinion about it (I do have a strong opinion that the EditorConfig standard's choice is wrong, but not whether we should follow it or not): if you think Damien's preference is better for Emacs, I'm fine to make the change. Otherwise, I suggest we leave it like that for Emacs-30 and see how things turn out. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 21 05:08:18 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2024 09:08:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37145 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1srw6E-0001ay-BO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 05:08:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1srw6C-0001ae-1a; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 05:08:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1srw5i-0005md-Sg; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 05:07:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sgqmMzMCUyo+/+uo5WipyusnZ8b8CQ0irWX3GbMKOyI=; b=FJp1gDGGF/5s 22/ZuYyxIoE5/ZS2Q79VtM9qSI8A7vYRJYUtN+ieqSZLPE7lPbIA50DQZzeO12+Wa64X4nUQtY5tI pFGg3Zsw3Qdbi2/00qyPdb/Qrbe2CF3bK86LLlpWBVSwtSxGxwBYYFhjuUOYKpQ+RIsiXQDni6ZO0 SA68kv3wOdRi+4LcnHY2sDJHSYUv8LZR7PLdgixMcOWka8z7fZZ8BGTTPFDii7Oj86/eDGL2845KA Ml8BSX1ny8Gns8ZcWMfhM5IVEj6LD+MBN0/iCP8lfqoy0rKRy3H8378ExQzIvOq1O8FhbYMPUeI9b 9wS+qN5yNiLecCXD2lHb3g==; Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 12:07:43 +0300 Message-Id: <86tte94bog.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:25:17 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> <86h6arzzwv.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: damien@cassou.me, 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 72808 wontfix close 72808 thanks > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Damien Cassou , 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, > jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com > Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:25:17 -0400 > > >> The problem is that the .editorconfig file can be shared across users of > >> different editors for a given project. Emacs disagreeing with the > >> standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their > >> colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file > >> that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in > >> an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, > >> if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may > >> quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit > >> everyone. > > Stefan, any further comments, or should we close this as wontfix? > > I think Damien's argument makes a lot of sense. > I think mine makes sense as well. > I can't really judge which one will work out more often right, but as > the writer of the code I decided to try out my choice. > > But I don't have a really strong opinion about it (I do have a strong > opinion that the EditorConfig standard's choice is wrong, but not > whether we should follow it or not): if you think Damien's preference is > better for Emacs, I'm fine to make the change. > > Otherwise, I suggest we leave it like that for Emacs-30 and see how > things turn out. I'm okay with closing this as wontfix. Let's see if we have more complaints like this. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:56:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. 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Emacs disagreeing with the > standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their > colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file > that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in > an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, > if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may > quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit > everyone. I agree, FWIW. This makes our .editorconfig support less useful than it could be. The point, to my mind at least, is exactly that users *shouldn't* have to do any extra work to get the right settings when opening a new project. If it has a correct .editorconfig file, everything should Just Work (TM). IOW, the user experience I prefer is not "new project, so now you have to send yet another .editorconfig patch". At $WORK, for example, this is complicated by things like which team maintains a given repository, how amenable they are likely to be to a seemingly redundant patch to improve support for Emacs, etc. In all likelihood, I will just end up creating .dir-locals.el files instead, to avoid the discussion. If we insist on this, how about adding an option to turn the incompatible behaviour off? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 31 22:42:42 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2024 02:42:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6hcY-0004IH-HJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:42 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:2088) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6hcW-0004I4-GN; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:41 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DFFB14444CF; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1730428952; bh=L9PIajgRE4QRBp+UPt5hiaUVHzkf5oAxYOTx/vPfO3A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=kFgLI2H7ipK7fPtM2XD9AM7WvumAZuDtD25nbWvfNKYexiGohd3el454AWtFx4vID NpUaccY1yGLXWrGw7Hlly3LNIgDuJZnl8x5hBOGpcsSsyP1S7zn808T6GWOU/SyH/J FjlKk6N1yhsSbpRYuXvPnINMFoDqkge9isJaMFltlqwE1RO4GzM77UUI7HXI/fXBfq sePaxPge6ey2NO8dKeFVY+LKywHQIV8FpLV1CueiqbTjj0TsklGEi38tQcpmcCUOZF 7jE0qYcUI1op0HdCHnW4WLWToybJoDSziLMSkkzVg78QK+SqA4RG5pPeK/fRshJ/ya QvEQ/xC8nGwLw== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BF01B4444CC; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (104-195-225-43.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.195.225.43]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 783AE1200A3; Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:09:21 -0700") Message-ID: References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:31 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.036 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: Damien Cassou , 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) forcemerge 72808 72790 thanks >> The problem is that the .editorconfig file can be shared across users of >> different editors for a given project. Emacs disagreeing with the >> standard means that Emacs users will now have to explain to their >> colleagues why they are introducing a change in a .editorconfig file >> that the standard says is unnecessary. This is putting me, at least, in >> an uncomfortable position with non-Emacs users in my team. Additionally, >> if other editors disagree with the standard for other reasons, we may >> quickly reach a situation where no content of .editorconfig will suit >> everyone. > > I agree, FWIW. > > This makes our .editorconfig support less useful than it could be. The > point, to my mind at least, is exactly that users *shouldn't* have to do > any extra work to get the right settings when opening a new project. If > it has a correct .editorconfig file, everything should Just Work (TM). > > IOW, the user experience I prefer is not "new project, so now you have > to send yet another .editorconfig patch". At $WORK, for example, this > is complicated by things like which team maintains a given repository, > how amenable they are likely to be to a seemingly redundant patch to > improve support for Emacs, etc. In all likelihood, I will just end up > creating .dir-locals.el files instead, to avoid the discussion. > > If we insist on this, how about adding an option to turn the > incompatible behaviour off? Note that in response to the very similar request in bug#73991 (where I also point out more reasons why I think the EditorConfig spec is just poorly thought out in this respect), I (reluctantly=F0=9F=99=82) installed = in `emacs-30` a patch which should make Emacs behave like Damien expects for the `.editorconfig` file he provided. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 01 03:37:36 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2024 07:37:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6mDw-0006Dn-ET for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:37:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54232) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6mDu-0006Dh-60 for 72808@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:37:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t6mDl-0004QE-6m; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:37:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=dMzd8OxMvWtNUZz5MqqWjzPa4EG+2rSJiDDlomodGHk=; b=Qm8l6jqNNnuOY3PjPLM/ pM9gyZfwvLx5ZPi4jZes4WWXrNY5fVlSLuw8pqGacRx659Yqf3oKydpfZGjIwMw0WsFP5eldBUy7p 3EGq9AKlPV9VQpDctBZX/Feizr3954bXDo/g9i/3RG43zDYG6SvL3Iwgr4O2guSOz9rZcUZj8c1bL 9UZ9oxmDv4htQ5AidSRLYQrS3Uo565NVGz4UfzBcecX8RxnN3mzcah7ZWstyWwYT162NH2wptuCoT 4fnzvEj/RJFBAAi74hOGSTpTe9aD4hhnUHSx2ptxXDGBaMqf1xDB4DrB350vf2kYv54Rqcx4wKPZc SpP4N2bMPLbQvA==; Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2024 09:37:22 +0200 Message-Id: <86jzdn1k25.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: damien@cassou.me, 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: Damien Cassou , 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, > jaygkamat@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:42:31 -0400 > From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > Note that in response to the very similar request in bug#73991 (where > I also point out more reasons why I think the EditorConfig spec is just > poorly thought out in this respect), I (reluctantly🙂) installed in > `emacs-30` a patch which should make Emacs behave like Damien expects > for the `.editorconfig` file he provided. Indeed. Moreover, people who claim that we must behave like other editors should also explain how to reconcile that with the fact that Emacs has a much more complex handling of tab-width wrt indentation, and in particular we almost completely decoupled these two. It is IMNSHO unthinkable that support of EditorConfig will change how Emacs handles tabs and indentation in its various major modes. So saying that we should comply is not enough, because everyone here is in favor of compliance. The problem, and the reason why Stefan didn't comply 100% with that single setting, is that there are significant conceptual problems with providing such compliance without breaking expectations of Emacs users. Thus, if you think what we have is insufficient, please tell how to be more compatible without breaking traditional Emacs behaviors wrt to tabs and indentation. Because we cannot possibly allow that tail to wag the dog, can we? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 01 06:51:18 2024 Received: (at 72808) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2024 10:51:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48548 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6pFN-00046Y-LN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 06:51:17 -0400 Received: from mail.reprendre.net ([193.23.30.35]:35796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t6pFL-00046S-KU for 72808@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 06:51:16 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 3EEE42C0A78; Fri, 1 Nov 2024 11:51:10 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cassou.me; s=dkim; t=1730458273; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: in-reply-to:references; bh=2aMnq8gtdLaWbnbtA6lDvid8G41d8k6EkuIyVIZ/JQk=; b=EBnq9f3boTkR48cVCYd43cuEFBD6d/FUCKWX9ttwVHMkkKUS3o5oFBezvJc48xjjg7zWSq a3DRaRs8ae/TZjvWCz6cV+nAkzbJW0IxgzsAjH5Iv5g992s68W1KWIOkAbVHSTKhCccD3R kEkfwNdRd5DKOBlOQE1K/V9AUMz+EqybIKIUF9kEk3nkKm+AHpnt21lzi64eELQztA+PgJ yne4+Uj21KxGH4RAjUQ4XvwmCjDTY/miWz0WnW8DqzMl9Fz84+cFy4hTNrX8Th/mpN1xsG 8wKFisai3odkoVNgEbDPxdGuohLNhI+cutRde3Mw1Vf1OjkzAqFJytRei/Px4A== From: Damien Cassou To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#72808: 30.0.90; editorconfig doesn't set tab_width to a default value In-Reply-To: <86jzdn1k25.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87seusbbd9.fsf@cassou.me> <86jzdn1k25.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2024 11:51:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87jzdn1b35.fsf@cassou.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 72808 Cc: 72808@debbugs.gnu.org, jaygkamat@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, 8.slashes@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Hi Eli, Eli Zaretskii writes: > Indeed. Moreover, people who claim that we must behave like other > editors should also explain how to reconcile that with the fact that > Emacs has a much more complex handling of tab-width wrt indentation, > and in particular we almost completely decoupled these two. it is highly possible that the editorconfig file format isn't as powerful as what Emacs provides. It would make sense for someone knowledgeable to discuss these arguments in the editorconfig's mailing list: https://editorconfig.org/#contributing. -- Damien Cassou "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:56:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2024 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator