From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:34 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#7260 <7260@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#7260 <7260@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up Reply-To: bug#7260 <7260@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 16:11:34 +0000 retitle 7260 24.0.50; DEL screwed up reassign 7260 emacs submitter 7260 rms@gnu.org severity 7260 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 08:50:23 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 12:50:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ub8-0006Aj-BC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:50:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ub4-0006Ac-UV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:50:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ueh-0005Bo-8n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:54:10 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:33262) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ueh-0005Bi-65 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:54:03 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48160 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P8ueb-0000CQ-2X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:54:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ueU-00050O-Ga for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:53:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:44846) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ueU-00050B-El for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:53:50 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ueU-0008O4-6v; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:53:50 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:53:50 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x C-x to go to the beginning of it. DEL surprised me by deleting the region. This change causes a lot of trouble. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (mips64el-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.12) of 2010-10-10 on theobromine2 configured using `configure 'CFLAGS=-g'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: RMAIL Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t gpm-mouse-mode: t display-battery-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t abbrev-mode: t Recent input: SPC ESC DEL l a v a r SPC l o s SPC f i d e o s SPC c o n SPC a g u a SPC f r i a . C-c C-c C-u C-n C-u C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n ESC x m i m e RET C-u C-v C-u C-v ESC v C-v C-u C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-e C-b C-@ ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC w m C-y C-n P o r SPC q u e ' DEL DEL C-\ e ' SPC d i m i t e s ? ESC b ESC b ESC b ? / C-n C-n C-n C-x o C-v C-u C-n C-u C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-e ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b ESC b C-@ C-n C-n C-x o ESC , RET M e SPC i n q u i e t o SPC DEL DEL a DEL o SPC d e SPC t u SPC s a l i d a . SPC SPC C-a C-o C o n SPC t u SPC s a l i d a , SPC ESC l ESC q C-e ESC DEL ESC DEL ESC DEL p o r SPC E c u a d o r . RET ? / P o r SPC q u e ' SPC s a l i s t e ? C-c C-c . o f s f - l a TAB RET d d d d d ESC x e m a c s ESC DEL r e p o r t SPC e m a c s SPC b u g RET Recent messages: Auto-saving... Sending... Wrote /home/rms/outgoing/out-3 Sending...done Mark set [4 times] Auto-saving...done Sending... Wrote /home/rms/outgoing/out-4 Sending...done Added to /home/rms/xmail/fsf-la.xmail Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (rmailkwd warnings rmailsum goto-addr thingatpt noutline outline apropos two-column kmacro iso-transl etags debug pp vc-bzr sha1 hex-util find-func help-fns compare-w ispell shadow emacsbug dired-aux diff-mode easy-mmode vc vc-dispatcher parse-time vc-cvs sgml-mode mule-util cal-move cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs grep compile ansi-color shell tabify man assoc mh-e mh-compat mailabbrev mh-acros cl mh-buffers mh-loaddefs gnus gnus-ems nnheader gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr wid-edit novice quail help-mode view rmailout dabbrev newcomment mailalias sendmail multi-isearch dired t-mouse finder-inf package rmailedit rmail mail-utils battery paren cus-start cus-load mailcrypt rfc822 comint regexp-opt ring easymenu mailcrypt-init tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 13:08:06 2010 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 17:08:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ycY-00089z-K5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:08:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ycW-00089J-NG for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:08:05 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ygF-0000ws-0m; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:11:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19648.29786.878383.31155@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:11:54 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: merge X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: yellow X-Ran: |3(NL1kuQ9wnX{mIFrUi+Xo2-Bsd5,)m2|$h`&oqa"F#G]c}.\a@er\Sxs;y&2$_,Ba1)} X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) merge 7235 7260 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 13:18:23 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 17:18:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ymV-0000UB-9j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:18:23 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8ymS-0000U6-OF for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:18:21 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out01.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00BDMHKZ5Z50@get-mta-out01.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:22:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 962831798F41_CC076C3B for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:22:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 79C331796256_CC076C3F for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:22:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00A6JHKZ5N40@get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:22:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P8yqB-0007QK-89; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:22:11 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:21:54 +0200 Message-id: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUwCBQKAQRsLie7gVYc AwlRFxwOp8dnAAACdklEQVQ4jXWUzXLjIBCERzLcrSy5y4O5O0x8Rxt0JyPP+7/KNlK8ySUql6vE J5qeP2j65aFp+Q24H29/RW5PENyPLYLn+gQ0fAMGyPgQPzr7z28QNpFWlqDLTxDmWknJjb7JJ6Ts AMHHW3W1Vu+NcRBNvh8eyDgTYb3+NdskdzBMARLMiWjeklsbqciDpuJqIc/MMxE8zQCjSOqgEISY iRzcztpozZIplJm82a5UAQwfrIiHzs6KmSk3ogKp0/wfrGT9IWorlKIjog4KrY++rqbOC9s8YivH DkrzHaTkTK5jitBi7uABU1vPnks8x8w7iBBshSKWATgn2ePRHYyONGIpuyhJOc0EjzBNPvU/FsbG 5HG8z3YAho7cpdEm92Y7sAPgCLlBFVltNs4KoGRee6UlGxIGQOO8iQdgjQfwDVuBTzOiQyWZDwBD npXNHcDD8rEuefMJKa+nFKXn6+UL5HsEQOpPsGiKWmjubuP7fRvv0Vz9wBvCpNcvcAHgbG762Kt1 pbNG5DLHS9KT3gH+SG+6Qude7sx8Z9ausLx0gNY7WwMxfTdEhTo+XiUnVwMATLdGFzSLNUXR0EI1 ADRkxc82DFS4qVWV/Fh2sDKNNx2WB+nINqySywKpgBS17bY9ijMauQ3nyI+AMZhoB/GGAiPaNoRx VcUO9D9AFgAhTc2H4sLISM407gl+/1CBceOhViitpE17hPLWOyWhK67TEPoMUoUksvIuO0AQyxL6 1NISRojxpdfKsI0R3Q6GqaB0NgPce+fxMffkMOahePKx3wr9oGNY6Tn/Palv0wngMu1Sz3sB1wim u+N52l09Ab6VZQrdwv7+D1FKrKAFq+MvAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Peaches's _I Feel Cream_: "More" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x C-x to go to > the beginning of it. DEL surprised me by deleting the region. I think most people now agree that `C-x C-x' shouldn't activate the region when transient-mark-mode is switched on, but nobody has actually altered that function to stop doing this. If nobody objects, I'll make that change later tonight. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 14:15:38 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 18:15:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8zfu-0001Zm-7v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:15:38 -0400 Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8zfr-0001Zf-IJ for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:15:36 -0400 Received: by qwb7 with SMTP id 7so20890qwb.3 for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:19:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0XkaQBqI8pghCC9cFgzSc0/DIzcCtHWEpLb4q9h0tIA=; b=gnNJbO6KX4j8moZxU6xYwElt8DzNvaan9kxt4/Pe+3rJ1Y8qSifvjt+qb+zKCSndRl qDASIk08DjTrdlpiIzSclwSytoWvD1T8cMqgn1emfmeSqLz1+Y01qqABrotfEAvtxjH5 N9FMlK8lJ3RD1FmmEqSQuF1bRFhrwQW7oocOE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=A67qXdnjJbN5UruMezYprUsvY/zn3hGX4Iv8fL5oP+EvT84A3RBywgx17iCv+JMWja lE2PPu3sWduO8JP+13HsjaoVG+Gs5RdkgvWTlbwstcnfC/Jcix/TW0hbistpaOI7PTEs rMC85oBg0QwAtPj0UwoGZJvpBeCd4EdiDbZ70= Received: by 10.229.65.25 with SMTP id g25mr1087920qci.196.1287685165932; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:19:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.224.199 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:19:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:19:05 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wro= te: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x C-x to go to >> the beginning of it. =C2=A0DEL surprised me by deleting the region. > > I think most people now agree that `C-x C-x' shouldn't activate the > region when transient-mark-mode is switched on, but nobody has actually > altered that function to stop doing this. I did not follow, but how should then the region be activated if transient-mark-mode is on? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 14:22:42 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 18:22:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8zmj-0001ch-Tr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:22:42 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P8zmh-0001cc-0d for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:22:39 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out01.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00B9OKK55Z90@get-mta-out01.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:26:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id CCF151799289_CC085D5B for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:26:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id B3AC817966CF_CC085D5F for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:26:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00IFSKK58C30@get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:26:29 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P8zqP-0005Os-F6; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:26:29 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:26:28 +0200 Message-id: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUxLCYDAQJiXlYfGxcK CAcFAgITElxhAAACWElEQVQ4jWVTS7LjMAikkHMAL7Kn5Dd7yuC9y0L7l8S6/1Wm5c+8mhmSsmw1 0I0Q1P6xPaL2lf4F2rkP4J1hv/7D6bUxgKnu10a9gZYPq/f27UD7H6C2jz/AcdLT63KNMFvpwQ8y S8uPqmJkWtKiS2ht0VOtySLap0ZBsoCvXxxCpBYg1ZZsZVsfJ/AhEdKvns0V+Vf+uuSuRLSmgpgi ZO7lShXEmZgHq42UyB2EB+CqWTUlfM6iKYp57L2OgJvyPJyAJTXrQZWMmbqwsrQNK1OysiCE1gwC KhalzBkK5wkhJYK6sSTyZDNPVGYhpIpKBdHaf2ZgS8EiyaEdW9wpUlLvFUEjiUdFKmExMBotb6jI OWnquQiv0k9Wyb+Tr/jKoksDgM7KUb10JZZWBQUAQfuEgc15FZKEWOt3hdKMZJR79ilPA4r4HNcL fNChF5DpOKrocimx9IrT1IHZSuy+ROdIW544p5Ms8+TfZr0OiAPQdR1Azv5RpHLi6QCYoOAw/2TQ OOm0Ho75fvp3hmZHqreAQ/j0zzRsKMbAMc04Lha070TgbmFO6bENSMIngEA0avmEo47NxVgXZeW8 ziKqQxSc27CZKPuvt6ycfctSvJdPNpBNxsvXGzCOYChR994PU7Gyz8Pwxq3IkNOuC4dGLzXmCY3k zG52TxROwwJyGaR5q8mWGxgId0XEUm1onZZrGqnPW0SRth+DFMdwxjFq0V7j6ONzHF/3kBdr9Nzr eNqrP1ob2zg+ETHe1o7t1l7PY/0Bzm0A3f9v4Hki5+sFPA+SV8O/S0Hwb2V52Vx/LxvYAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Fairport Convention's _What We Did On Our Holidays_: "Some Sweet Day" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Lennart Borgman writes: > I did not follow, but how should then the region be activated if > transient-mark-mode is on? `C-u C-x C-x' was the general idea from the discussion, I think. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 14:42:55 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 18:42:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P906J-0001nt-40 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:42:55 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P906H-0001no-Cw for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:42:53 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o9LIkgiP005151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:46:44 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o9LEO9t8011820; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:46:42 GMT Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 704567861287686712; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:45:12 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:45:12 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , References: Subject: RE: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:45:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: ActxSnXq9EGFsOmARUu+TaKwTB9WpAAApqEA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 'Emacs-Devel devel' , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > Richard Stallman writes: > > > Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x > > C-x to go to the beginning of it. DEL surprised me by > > deleting the region. > > I think most people now agree that `C-x C-x' shouldn't activate the > region when transient-mark-mode is switched on, but nobody > has actually altered that function to stop doing this. > > If nobody objects, I'll make that change later tonight. Huh?????? _Nothing_ has been decided in this regard. Refer to the giant thread "C-d deleting region considered harmful". See in particular the sub/derived threads "Should C-x C-x activate the region?" and "C-x C-x". http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-09/msg00965.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-09/msg01011.html There was _lots_ of discussion about this, but no conclusion about just what should be done. The last mail I see on this topic was Richard's of 2010/09/22. He argued that a poll should be taken. The last line of the thread is Richard's: "If we just speculate about this, we might be very wrong." http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-09/msg01110.html Please do _not_ just "make that change later tonight". (You certainly should not make changes like that based only on someone filing a bug to report an annoyance.) (FWIW, I was the first in the thread to suggest that we might consider changing `C-x C-x' so that it does not activate the region. So I am not against such a change, in principle. But just "making that change later tonight" is truly not kosher/halal.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 15:35:31 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 19:35:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P90vD-0002B3-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:31 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po42.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.101]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P90vB-0002Ax-DM for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:29 -0400 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014158.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.158]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po42.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o9LJdKLx009517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:20 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9DEBCC018; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:39:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:21:54 +0200") Message-ID: <8739rzqqs7.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x C-x to go to >> the beginning of it. DEL surprised me by deleting the region. > > I think most people now agree that `C-x C-x' shouldn't activate the > region when transient-mark-mode is switched on, but nobody has actually > altered that function to stop doing this. > > If nobody objects, I'll make that change later tonight. Bad idea. If C-x C-x does not enable the mark, it becomes impossible to exchange point and mark while activating the region. If you want to return to the mark without reactivating it, do C-u C-SPC. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 15:57:32 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 19:57:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91GV-0002Na-Sv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:57:32 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91GU-0002NR-VG for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:57:31 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00CZ7OYAXX30@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:01:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 5DEEE1EA584F_CC09C12B for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:01:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 00F4B1EA299E_CC09C12F for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:01:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in01.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00AX5OY9NI30@get-mta-in01.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:01:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P91KD-0002mb-NZ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:01:21 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:01:18 +0200 Message-id: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEWufrb69uzDmsPn1tx9 QZL17+QuQnaEAAACSUlEQVQ4jVWUTbbbIAyFVeIsgLjMFRHPHVPPOS4LiO2y/630Xsh7TXViB/Oh X0AyGmS2xalzGKW04O3iUw6VJk5Mwd5fcpEDc8rl+DdnigVvoMJJMcMPxpzwS64yY6VTM23mMOqm JpmzTHs4a61nwiutKwYKU9BYK2UPTw/Z8QSClwgmd199iHX3we+1BnUNdA3vTSfq+FrVotwa8DRl y0o7PlTTK/OYMAs2TvGkBx9OlUhT127qFuOC9QCHuEl+dR87wMUMDgge/8JFXP7slgBpahbX0/A+ pTVAM3SgzKOBFFb/rWEAXxrxrOezh8Viz9Tw9BFRu3sPS1t1c0ujjtFifH46p0YIe4JYqt1UB+te Q61L24naasIEAVA6gJEqqTlH5neWZNr3UL/E79AwucvsmHk41EXLEUeHYZkjUC48SonDsGkxOje9 96hq/VOKy2UbSkaq1bBRL+cYEwBmt1Iy3c+KqJx1jdxBIViYh3PchP81VLkfkUG+4KOxzERm1Aqw RTVsNhSnmVF5dVdZNHI49lJBmgZNuQZuiPCR43vZrHDeh7eSYym/H2Xj12KsbgM/t+Yc3juY4OPS AAItLY8O7j0PgPzYPoCy7N1UGQhyBwaN4x1VKZehXB49Qfp4STN1w8m3nJYhfpk6zPoJX588qLWd hpnOVdo+V/8hi/vBrbW4GO5tjInPmtgdoizSbzD7hbUXF1liHrjx79tvrQ2gsVg7V7z72hd+6/Cq GZuGa22GBP0EHWWSmmrAUR/PxNP7HPeToSf/F6zDpTuIWdYdAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Fairport Convention's _Liege & Lief_: "Quiet Joys Of Brotherhood" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Chong Yidong writes: > Bad idea. If C-x C-x does not enable the mark, it becomes impossible to > exchange point and mark while activating the region. I don't follow you. `C-u C-x C-x' would do that, wouldn't it? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 16:12:58 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 20:12:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91VS-0002V3-Hd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:12:58 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po42.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.101]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91VP-0002Ux-Sb for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:12:56 -0400 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014158.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.158]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po42.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o9LKGla4028334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:16:47 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3FFDDC018; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:16:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:16:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:01:18 +0200") Message-ID: <87k4lb9u8g.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Chong Yidong writes: > >> Bad idea. If C-x C-x does not enable the mark, it becomes impossible to >> exchange point and mark while activating the region. > > I don't follow you. `C-u C-x C-x' would do that, wouldn't it? Ah yes, now I recall: the idea was to flip the meaning of ARG in exchange-point-and-mark, yes? This is not a bad idea in principle. But the effects may be strange. It would mean that, when the mark is active, you need to do C-u C-x C-x to exchange point and mark without deactivating the mark, which is inconvenient. So this may need tweaking. For this change, please post your proposed change as a patch to emacs-devel, for others to comment, instead of checking it in directly. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 21 16:27:12 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2010 20:27:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91jD-0002cE-2d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:27:11 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P91jB-0002c7-CY for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:27:10 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00C9EQANXX60@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:30:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id A6B801EA560C_CC0A2DFB for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:30:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 595DC1EA27C9_CC0A2DFF for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:30:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAN00G7JQANQ230@get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:30:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P91mJ-0005cg-1i; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:30:23 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: <87k4lb9u8g.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:30:20 +0200 Message-id: References: <87k4lb9u8g.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEV5UjslGAxVOSe7k2MZ DgYKBwI4Jxda1ZmBAAACcElEQVQ4jV3UwW7jIBAG4AlEPpcs5kymFWcaS3suFc553TU9196G93+E /Qc722qRkkb+xAxmZkrmvtL+N+exlDnTF7haKzjnUnJucCEij49SkMVCdiDS7ClGjlxdRbCxQTXc FvYMKiDekqzAyp9bjtUPQww1cDAOguBPO2gAV6YQjADR+RsogaWF+tpBLRRzNX3LoaxxC6B6jeR4 l8W0U+GhYwG3eqRY5Oecc6IhIg1/JoODhiqPzTjlZBB40Eq2uPbU4lPSHS4qANoRAEu2OTkBRDvs N4mD4rsfdxjo+A1cHct/O2zKAmyzqzvQVig8RnhvcxXAVVCXBWrl8wYrb6AbuDuYHWIE5JTMCfcB YJM9U9RaHx6ekTXb7QBO2dkrVFsPx5eDhMpXXOE5Y4eApLh4Yg6IUuuH2nZIvdZQnVlOgCwwNSDK +3qRgqJcIQvQPxjXauyYvoHBy6Iyc4frte91Dem+Y0TjlXEOuHb7plDDf4AeLmXqvDIuXbhW1zUY sQXkgiezjBFNsnZ2asnHNM5ZzmtseSTFvEHZ1rRc8R7lNyrA3TV9QTEnNn35BVDdw/kbpAeFUNNA OurIaNA7TK+dzJLGMGjc3AqYG8zpKPAjklT09krlXce+kZVjvyBJJNW/U1r15Vae5C3n+XoKbR5D PxN7T/3bEG+Qq75UL2MqMCg63yatCZNB9NNhGCOgoBkUHfJJDR3GUx1fMZ5624H17MI6KJapc9L2 Xi3IgZLOK8J4xR9L/aPO6LvqcnvBCf1F0g+o+XDEoLilJ8yIc/i3IAD6oCc0JIaEthUfd3iM5zaf GIOom0gheK1+6BqYv0vKx/uIgAhoAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Sandy Denny's _The North Star Grassman and the Ravens_: "Blackwaterside" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Chong Yidong writes: > Ah yes, now I recall: the idea was to flip the meaning of ARG in > exchange-point-and-mark, yes? Yup. > This is not a bad idea in principle. But the effects may be strange. > It would mean that, when the mark is active, you need to do C-u C-x > C-x to exchange point and mark without deactivating the mark, which is > inconvenient. So this may need tweaking. Ah, yes, true. > For this change, please post your proposed change as a patch to > emacs-devel, for others to comment, instead of checking it in directly. Sure. I've spelled out all the cases instead of using the (xor arg (not (region-active-p))) logic for clarity. It seems to do the trick in all the use cases (transient with active mark, without active mark, with and without prefix, and non-transient with and without prefix). Unless there was some combination I forgot to check. === modified file 'lisp/simple.el' *** lisp/simple.el 2010-10-19 15:43:27 +0000 --- lisp/simple.el 2010-10-21 20:27:22 +0000 *************** *** 3966,3993 **** 'exchange-dot-and-mark 'exchange-point-and-mark "23.3") (defun exchange-point-and-mark (&optional arg) "Put the mark where point is now, and point where the mark is now. - This command works even when the mark is not active, - and it reactivates the mark. ! If Transient Mark mode is on, a prefix ARG deactivates the mark ! if it is active, and otherwise avoids reactivating it. If ! Transient Mark mode is off, a prefix ARG enables Transient Mark ! mode temporarily." (interactive "P") (let ((omark (mark t)) (temp-highlight (eq (car-safe transient-mark-mode) 'only))) (if (null omark) (error "No mark set in this buffer")) (deactivate-mark) ! (set-mark (point)) (goto-char omark) (if set-mark-default-inactive (deactivate-mark)) (cond (temp-highlight (setq transient-mark-mode (cons 'only transient-mark-mode))) ! ((or (and arg (region-active-p)) ; (xor arg (not (region-active-p))) ! (not (or arg (region-active-p)))) ! (deactivate-mark)) ! (t (activate-mark))) nil)) (defcustom shift-select-mode t --- 3966,3999 ---- 'exchange-dot-and-mark 'exchange-point-and-mark "23.3") (defun exchange-point-and-mark (&optional arg) "Put the mark where point is now, and point where the mark is now. ! If Transient Mark mode is on, a prefix ARG activates the mark if ! it is inactive. If Transient Mark mode is off, a prefix ARG ! enables Transient Mark mode temporarily." (interactive "P") (let ((omark (mark t)) + (active (region-active-p)) (temp-highlight (eq (car-safe transient-mark-mode) 'only))) (if (null omark) (error "No mark set in this buffer")) (deactivate-mark) ! (push-mark (point)) (goto-char omark) (if set-mark-default-inactive (deactivate-mark)) (cond (temp-highlight (setq transient-mark-mode (cons 'only transient-mark-mode))) ! ;; Transient mode and active region -- activate. ! ((and active ! (not arg)) ! (activate-mark)) ! ;; Transient mode and no prefix -- leave deactivated. ! ((and (not active) ! (not arg)) ! ) ! ;; Non-transient mode, but prefix -- activate. ! ((and (not transient-mark-mode) ! arg) ! (activate-mark))) nil)) (defcustom shift-select-mode t -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 08:18:49 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 12:18:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Ga8-0002HX-9Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:18:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Ga5-0002HR-Oe for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:18:46 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Gdq-0001N1-Pt; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:22:38 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: "Drew Adams" In-reply-to: (drew.adams@oracle.com) Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Message-Id: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 08:22:38 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, lmi@gnus.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > I think most people now agree that `C-x C-x' shouldn't activate the > region when transient-mark-mode is switched on, but nobody > has actually altered that function to stop doing this. C-x C-x is the main way to activate an existing region in Transient Mark mode. To make that require C-u will be a different pain in the neck. The change for C-d and DEL to delete all regions was too radically incompatible to make made without polling the users first. The right thing to do is take that change out, then address the issue the right way: by polling the users. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 09:48:16 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 13:48:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Hyi-0002x8-IN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:48:16 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Hyg-0002x2-37 for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:48:15 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00JIF2IVRC20@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 554A91EA55A0_CC19707B for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:52:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 2C1CC1EA2821_CC19707F for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:52:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in01.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00LFN2IV2210@get-mta-in01.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9I2Q-00042C-UI; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:06 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200 Message-id: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEWNen307+9NFiy8sbJt TFNmKz/tvu8gAAACPElEQVQ4jVWUwZqrIAyFseC+1HmAXkb2UnRPNey9Drz/q8xJsJ0Z2o9WfpIT kqA6jlpdzUSK1DlS+zHvhagnzHq6uL5W5TH9H2IM8TXC4wfMlHRPfaKsjOkeLgM4AWmPM5nESvRc yOBPxfS0NtqBvQWL75ySqaKuLVQn1UE5qs4uteSqKsZmeSCCKH9+gQG+4CMMEQ4B9tUDlLpdlcZH qSuMVDcrjRNNEZ7tnzHThlMTXH3hKU6dxibes1CqTYPBZL6USVsn4qnSG1wppQudQIkFEYc7hOFH A4OzOjG4mpkmoiAWtWmkr79RvUFpGkRIKms8BOBhZ/DhZDCYuVxSuq2Bsjaw7DCWlJwWqj9BaRov ULRxe/gDdgGjnlwSi0RGMaCm4Wl1G1tMIkyF0gmMc5ISPjlcwdMZlXbu+gOcq3tqILj7QwC8Z0kJ g6tz94u+PN8a3KhaQFpVdE8pFCWuR5ZwAXq9CJgREIB7ATysL4v1N3AF8Z4gk3SiiKOU6FaJylC+ YzkDcBfGQeZoF4N0SDPs9gGvPt3GPpMXUE9wW1ZfPm9+Gce7XbB4cAVzsh+98/u/m8/juHFKcCEh CI159QI+xqK521tK6t3ecKbP562gEC/gRUOG3Mz3/XAcGi+jMbC9a0mUy0glyf6ANg2t5rlwEl0t aF2tQ9RyPk4JHQCegVzaEO1pwSc/fB3ZVWAwBEn7WpI6jtJ6vs1G3jCeNQDy4bx3ha9FLpnyOvJ1 PlIhLuOK5REk441S6vENDjHEKdzl2eQAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Sandy Denny's _'Gold Dust' Live at the Royalty_: "It'll Take a Long Time" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Richard Stallman writes: > C-x C-x is the main way to activate an existing region in Transient > Mark mode. To make that require C-u will be a different pain in the > neck. I wasn't present when the discussion to make `C-x C-x' do these things took place, but it seems like the current behaviour conflates to rather different actions -- exchange-point-and-mark, and activate-region. How about just decoupling them altogether, and let `C-x C-x' revert to (only) doing what it's always done, and add `C-x C-a' for `activate-region'? `C-u C-x C-x' could still do both at once, for people who like that a lot. > The change for C-d and DEL to delete all regions was too radically > incompatible to make made without polling the users first. The right > thing to do is take that change out, then address the issue the right > way: by polling the users. It sounds rather odd to have `C-d' not delete the active region. If you (for instance) Shift-Right an area, and then press `DEL', I think most people would expect the region you've just selected to be deleted. So I think there are two completely separate issues here: 1) Should `C-x C-x' activate the region? I think not, because it drives me totally insane. 2) Should `DEL' delete the active region? I think it makes sense, but it might be too surprising. And `C-w' already exists to do that, so there doesn't seem to be a really compelling reason for that behaviour. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 11:00:30 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 15:00:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9J6b-0003V5-Mp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:00:30 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9J6Y-0003Uy-VC for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:00:27 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513E01C15DA7; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:04:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hase.home (ppp-88-217-114-253.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.114.253]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BC61C0010D; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:04:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: X-Yow: If elected, Zippy pledges to each and every American a 55-year-old houseboy... Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:04:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > add `C-x C-a' for `activate-region'? Note that ^X^A is already taken. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 11:44:05 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 15:44:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Jmn-0003p5-D7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:44:05 -0400 Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Jmg-0003oj-EI for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:44:04 -0400 Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1P9JqP-0003wz-Gn; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:49 +0900 Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8152ADF8E; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:48 +0900 (JST) From: Miles Bader To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:47:48 +0900 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Lines: 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Miles Bader List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > I wasn't present when the discussion to make `C-x C-x' do these things > took place, but it seems like the current behaviour conflates to rather > different actions -- exchange-point-and-mark, and activate-region. How > about just decoupling them altogether, and let `C-x C-x' revert to > (only) doing what it's always done, and add `C-x C-a' for > `activate-region'? How about not doing that? I don't disagree that having a dedicated key might be more logical/elegant/whatever, but user interfaces, after all, are more about what's convenient and familiar than what's the most minimal. Saying "(only) doing what it's always done" is simply _wrong_ at this point, because C-x C-x has had its current functionality for quite a while -- if I interpret what I see in git correctly, at least since 1993! -Miles -- Conservative, n. A statesman enamored of existing evils, as opposed to a Liberal, who wants to replace them with new ones. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 11:45:10 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Jnp-00041v-Mk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:45:09 -0400 Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Jno-0003r8-Pq for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:45:09 -0400 Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1P9JrY-00049Q-65; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:49:00 +0900 Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1296FDF8E; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:49:00 +0900 (JST) From: Miles Bader To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 00:49:00 +0900 In-Reply-To: (Andreas Schwab's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:04:19 +0200") Message-ID: <87mxq6p6s3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Lines: 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Miles Bader List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) Andreas Schwab writes: >> add `C-x C-a' for `activate-region'? > > Note that ^X^A is already taken. Hmm, doesn't seem to be in my Emacs... -Miles -- Friendless, adj. Having no favors to bestow. Destitute of fortune. Addicted to utterance of truth and common sense. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 12:06:37 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 16:06:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9K8a-0004fw-Qy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:06:37 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9K8Y-0004fp-Ic for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:06:35 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00JQF8XGRC90@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:10:28 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 0754A1EA58C2_CC1B774B for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:10:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id CCF191EA290F_CC1B773F for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:10:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00G9F8XFG900@get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:10:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KCJ-0000EG-Hz; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:10:27 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Miles Bader Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:10:25 +0200 Message-id: References: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEWNen307+9NFiy8sbJt TFNmKz/tvu8gAAACPElEQVQ4jVWUwZqrIAyFseC+1HmAXkb2UnRPNey9Drz/q8xJsJ0Z2o9WfpIT kqA6jlpdzUSK1DlS+zHvhagnzHq6uL5W5TH9H2IM8TXC4wfMlHRPfaKsjOkeLgM4AWmPM5nESvRc yOBPxfS0NtqBvQWL75ySqaKuLVQn1UE5qs4uteSqKsZmeSCCKH9+gQG+4CMMEQ4B9tUDlLpdlcZH qSuMVDcrjRNNEZ7tnzHThlMTXH3hKU6dxibes1CqTYPBZL6USVsn4qnSG1wppQudQIkFEYc7hOFH A4OzOjG4mpkmoiAWtWmkr79RvUFpGkRIKms8BOBhZ/DhZDCYuVxSuq2Bsjaw7DCWlJwWqj9BaRov ULRxe/gDdgGjnlwSi0RGMaCm4Wl1G1tMIkyF0gmMc5ISPjlcwdMZlXbu+gOcq3tqILj7QwC8Z0kJ g6tz94u+PN8a3KhaQFpVdE8pFCWuR5ZwAXq9CJgREIB7ATysL4v1N3AF8Z4gk3SiiKOU6FaJylC+ YzkDcBfGQeZoF4N0SDPs9gGvPt3GPpMXUE9wW1ZfPm9+Gce7XbB4cAVzsh+98/u/m8/juHFKcCEh CI159QI+xqK521tK6t3ecKbP562gEC/gRUOG3Mz3/XAcGi+jMbC9a0mUy0glyf6ANg2t5rlwEl0t aF2tQ9RyPk4JHQCegVzaEO1pwSc/fB3ZVWAwBEn7WpI6jtJ6vs1G3jCeNQDy4bx3ha9FLpnyOvJ1 PlIhLuOK5REk441S6vENDjHEKdzl2eQAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Sandy Denny's _'Gold Dust' Live at the Royalty_: "Tomorrow is a Long Time" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Miles Bader writes: > Saying "(only) doing what it's always done" is simply _wrong_ at this > point, because C-x C-x has had its current functionality for quite a > while -- if I interpret what I see in git correctly, at least since 1993! Huh. I though transient-mark-mode was new(ish)? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 12:38:58 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 16:38:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kdu-0004tx-Iy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:38:58 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kds-0004ts-3g for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:38:56 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFCB1C15ABC; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:42:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hase.home (ppp-88-217-114-253.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.114.253]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9181A1C001AC; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:42:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Yow: You should all JUMP UP AND DOWN for TWO HOURS while I decide on a NEW CAREER!! Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:42:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:10:25 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Miles Bader X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Huh. I though transient-mark-mode was new(ish)? etc/NEWS.19: * Changes in version 19. ** If you enable Transient Mark mode, then the mark becomes "inactive" Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 12:41:09 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 16:41:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kg0-0004vI-RT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:41:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kfz-0004vD-Il for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:41:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kji-0008Dz-IA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:45:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:53236) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kjh-0008DI-S2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:44:58 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=35715 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P9Kjd-0000AC-Nz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:44:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KjX-00089h-6t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:44:50 -0400 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:57973) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KjW-00088S-Tz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:44:47 -0400 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KjN-0003D2-QH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:44:37 +0200 Received: from p508ede4b.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.142.222.75]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:44:37 +0200 Received: from dak by p508ede4b.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:44:37 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: David Kastrup Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:44:23 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8739rygot4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p508ede4b.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:7L1k893IuLazW1aI+SJ3tO2YWsk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > Miles Bader writes: > >> Saying "(only) doing what it's always done" is simply _wrong_ at this >> point, because C-x C-x has had its current functionality for quite a >> while -- if I interpret what I see in git correctly, at least since >> 1993! > > Huh. I though transient-mark-mode was new(ish)? Nope. Been around as long as I can remember. It is just that it has "recently" made active by default. Temporary transient-mark-mode (sounds a bit redundant, doesn't it?) is quite newer, 21.something I think. -- David Kastrup From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 12:41:28 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 16:41:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KgK-0004vU-2K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:41:28 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9KgH-0004vP-7o for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:41:26 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00JAAAJIRCB0@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:45:18 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id A786E1EA5906_CC1BF9EB for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:45:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan02.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 9A0E81EA293F_CC1BF9DF for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:45:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAP00GC7AJHG920@get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:45:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Kk1-00023x-BK; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:45:17 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:45:15 +0200 Message-id: References: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAD1BMVEUkAQlwEiyTKTebP0LG hVvi24P1AAACTElEQVQ4jW2UgdHbIAyFwc4ACDyAER7AIAZIgvafqU/G7t/26vPFhA9JT0LgnD0+ uP8/6wMCUSL6WRevkWf7pUDhAd7vhHHS/R9PlHw/YafnM3GbJF31bZ/P8/89B11fGPrfQJ5BFw8v njvPkD/g682YdQJXb1de22prksqMfvbr67uqaJelDzmjra29XhpGFxkiAlB1OLe0wuEKpUOHMOab GEjCjFTX1IfCWeo6GCC4ApANmB9tB0AuCt1lMBMMPWNemxwq+6H69v3LEUB8ORCDaxIJG8CqXyaA 6mCvLZ5JWsDow+ObHTl/Qi/0EDE8I6WWSqMbfKKIzcO5SDtKDTfIsStl4qOB8jbq7gEQgwDk9Eg9 VuZjDIo7Evc9wc/2RgBeWovQ+EFJvGB5bWGceRstG6hwDNDxHdVpDQcyriJMIVpxXwPpUt0qIUvI He2QC6zautBH6qqjoJyDkcvcJ4gE6FBmNdAv3gtEjlyrIJKkgk3JAOECebkBZPfBpBBydWyGGEqb 1jXDP3OpNMHeUB3sY30xDy1sbX2B0IpEeG8vbrDIPvgJCMA0lleDReNlgsVAZYRuLymjtOKtuAAZ rmpUVHZFfQmydjeBgw40D50LNNc/QSxoQ8XZa/29CufdWbGW3QAsckxyfKIaoAdUbIr2gt56d+tP A9jFSPkqnzXe2Kyjb8AhHTdAW8sN+AIFHa+lG25/AbaNKJfdt+x2nlEqvCkeMjhdFkMmwElAq/oD XbpOAAs/rxHzSbbIeteOzh/X0dyB4GL28xr6BTEmi6FlMkFHAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Fotheringay's _Fotheringay_: "The Ballad of Ned Kelly" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Miles Bader X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) Andreas Schwab writes: >> Huh. I though transient-mark-mode was new(ish)? > > etc/NEWS.19: > > * Changes in version 19. I mean, as a thing that's on by default. (Stuff that's not on by default doesn't exist for most people.) People really started complaining about this behaviour this year, so I'm assuming something changed somewhere. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 22 14:20:20 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2010 18:20:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9ME0-0005cD-3E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:20:20 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9MDx-0005c7-CQ for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:20:18 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LAP00700F2RJX00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:24:11 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.116.216]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LAP0071SF49BP40@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:24:11 +0200 (IST) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:24:19 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <83eibi84rw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sjzyp6u3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, rms@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:45:15 +0200 > Cc: Miles Bader , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, > 7260@debbugs.gnu.org > > Andreas Schwab writes: > > >> Huh. I though transient-mark-mode was new(ish)? > > > > etc/NEWS.19: > > > > * Changes in version 19. > > I mean, as a thing that's on by default. (Stuff that's not on by > default doesn't exist for most people.) People really started > complaining about this behaviour this year, so I'm assuming something > changed somewhere. 2008-03-23 Chong Yidong * simple.el (transient-mark-mode): Turn on by default. Hardly "this year". FWIW, the first thing I do in any Emacs I need to work is turn this off. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 03:42:23 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 07:42:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9YkA-0002ht-8i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:42:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Yk8-0002ho-KC for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:42:21 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Ynu-0005FF-Bw; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:46:14 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Message-Id: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:46:14 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) I wasn't present when the discussion to make `C-x C-x' do these things took place, but it seems like the current behaviour conflates to rather different actions -- exchange-point-and-mark, and activate-region. Combining the two actions was very convenient before the recent change to C-d and DEL. The problem has happened to me in fact after C-x C-x, but I suspect it will also happen in other cases. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 03:42:31 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 07:42:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9YkI-0002i7-UH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:42:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9YkG-0002hz-GW for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:42:28 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Ynv-0005Fy-ER; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:46:15 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Message-Id: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:46:15 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) I wasn't present when the discussion to make `C-x C-x' do these things took place, but it seems like the current behaviour conflates to rather different actions -- exchange-point-and-mark, and activate-region. Combining the two actions was very convenient before the recent change to C-d and DEL. The problem has happened to me in fact after C-x C-x, but I suspect it will also happen in other cases. It sounds rather odd to have `C-d' not delete the active region. If you (for instance) Shift-Right an area, and then press `DEL', I think most people would expect the region you've just selected to be deleted. After shift-arrows is a special case when it might be proper for DEL and C-d to delete the region. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 05:34:57 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 09:34:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9aV6-0003Tp-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:34:57 -0400 Received: from smtprelay-h32.telenor.se ([213.150.131.5]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9aV4-0003Ti-Iu for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 05:34:55 -0400 Received: from ipb2.telenor.se (ipb2.telenor.se [195.54.127.165]) by smtprelay-h32.telenor.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F6DE8ABA for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:38:49 +0200 (CEST) X-SENDER-IP: [85.225.45.100] X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Au81ANdJwkxV4S1kPGdsb2JhbACHcIwHjXIMAQEBATUtumCFSASNUQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.58,227,1286143200"; d="scan'208";a="143004838" Received: from c-642de155.25-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) ([85.225.45.100]) by ipb2.telenor.se with ESMTP; 23 Oct 2010 11:38:49 +0200 Received: from [172.20.199.13] (zeplin [172.20.199.13]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B00877FA05A; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:38:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4CC2AD28.5060504@swipnet.se> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:38:48 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101004 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Richard Stallman skrev 2010-10-23 09.46: > > It sounds rather odd to have `C-d' not delete the active region. If > you (for instance) Shift-Right an area, and then press `DEL', I think > most people would expect the region you've just selected to be deleted. > > After shift-arrows is a special case when it might be proper for DEL > and C-d to delete the region. > FWIW, I often mark a region with the mouse and press DEL to delete it. It is a habit picked up from other programs. But then again, I enabled delsel a long time ago, so I'm used to that behaviour. Jan D. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 11:24:16 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 15:24:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9fx9-00077B-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:24:16 -0400 Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com ([74.125.82.46]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9c46-0004Cv-8e for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:15:10 -0400 Received: by wwd20 with SMTP id 20so1918359wwd.15 for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 04:19:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:received:from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; bh=wDKctNAaDJMcnzEZEHjRhNAEfDEgHtp+539EDQJ9UVA=; b=buRIdtcL3cMUxYnVWHfjbafOHfvNZp75r7HRuZQd70ZLtwL/RpD+JtX+6jeENCbDGW my2Mx/m4NJJFojUUvOCTCefqPRaB1LSGCWRE3jxOckcC4Kesw2z7vcRZ1CaPnN+KJ/T+ eQ02bwMHk7BefhhIZkihAlVtTWcaxJplnSZbc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=UJwp5oWA1QVkdwfevfak2bUB0UJtxnPe1vn5uQ3/bywxfKc8VSKvVmKhryVcIHK3Af bOoMBXJnHxtVz1G5Eiibw1aT8mqm6tY3dVCkH5Szxe1+tPLIDpDLugoaZRSHIHBSS3fn AgeLN7HPPsR16wJvJP6vzShERdKL7MylFTSi4= Received: by 10.216.48.213 with SMTP id v63mr3849240web.25.1287832745786; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 04:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from myhost.localdomain (fon75-1-78-192-119-5.fbxo.proxad.net [78.192.119.5]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y15sm2635428weq.6.2010.10.23.04.18.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 23 Oct 2010 04:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by myhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 337774A479; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:18:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Bastien To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:52:05 +0200") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:18:50 +0200 Message-ID: <878w1pi2cl.fsf@altern.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:24:14 -0400 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > So I think there are two completely separate issues here: > > 1) Should `C-x C-x' activate the region? I think not, because it drives > me totally insane. Same here (FWIW). -- Bastien From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 12:05:22 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 16:05:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9gav-0007PF-MF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 12:05:21 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9gat-0007P9-LU for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 12:05:20 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAR00HES3JFLG60@get-mta-out02.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id A37C21799016_CC308ABB for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 16:09:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan01.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 6BD48179677A_CC308ABF for <7260@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 16:09:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from quimbies.gnus.org ([84.215.34.171]) by get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LAR00JM53JFLM20@get-mta-in03.get.basefarm.net> for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from larsi by quimbies.gnus.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9geh-0005hh-68; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:15 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: David Kastrup Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-reply-to: <877hh9ng5m.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:02 +0200 Message-id: References: <878w1pi2cl.fsf@altern.org> <877hh9ng5m.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEXHtKz///1QFR27maCG TUv7+fLNvrH+//vf0szKu62uQMHyAAACTElEQVQ4jW2UMY/bMAyF2QpN49HTZXY9dHRPQaNuReqh 6w2qPRpw44tGDwdldBHYUTYDBQTo35aUHB1yKJMl+vDIR4oKZHnOt3y732cH+SKl/DUDQAMMyrzM KBBojJfazc4lSL/n+yzEs+7xc+qscw7+Bxxq5hnKkCkPQCPoSDHDp3wRZB/vwY8ygv5B9+mpU85S 8fwVpBQE8Ato9x5slFWYa4bsLcASSiWYKg/tZdm7BSgyjCArl0ZuwGKJmWqUOCdy8GUBKFEKG0RF TmAbQRdcZf74HjSYC+3mflyPu3rsF9AhiG4fd8NhAdaDPAL+oY817gCLwHceYzeN0ZWiC77FReN5 H8BqhlHKobNH/KX1zS72PuNCCMb5V84ZFngIQCnXwPvs85k904KkcVbeFeOiNk+4BmkaO7cEzlxM ZjRmlFW/gLA+wIXhRYs1LlHhb/B3+dNw3vJC9K9DdDhe5hWwFpW+pVKqWxSMnYuCCVxp6RtULrgy nPHpaI5Nd5z+bJwHAFtUFN+Ki9ahl1h8gDUVX5lrA096uXMCozTTSNml9tV9cQL6ZNAVzmod7YZN lCdMBaLlhwVYv1gOqpMwohhrSpX6bQ8STEUNYvlC+DoIrF/RSgrTNIwz6BhfGWNw6n8TvCitjSla BpwGhue1VaGPSteGr4qGJYIykUljrth5hZJW4FYqpVa60puhaeFKdt9ETa6HmdYH/wnw2ZFLv7YE JjpPXELEUWMUJBscnWOgc2u7hSinAN8zAYuFXXeT+GdDqYKIvCcJZQzxD+FYW7eMdJBYAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Various's _Headz (cd2)_: "Deflon Sallahr - ...Don't Fake it" X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) David Kastrup writes: > Would suggest an option for inverting the meaning of a prefix argument > on C-x C-x while in transient-mark-mode. The question would then be what the default should be. :-) Anyway, my impression is that the vast majority of kvetching about transient-mark-mode and/or delsel mode is purely about `C-x C-x'. If that command didn't activate the region, I think many people who find transient-mark-mode problematic would no longer feel that way. transient-mark-mode is quite useful (qv. `M-;'), and it's a shame that something is simple as `C-x C-x' should make so many people switch it off completely. So my suggestion is this: Apply the patch that reverses (sort of) the prefix in the `C-x C-x' in the pretest Emacs, and see what people feel about it then. If people absolutely loathe how `C-x C-x' then works, we can revert the change, but at least we'll have one more data point. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 13:36:03 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 17:36:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9i0g-00082S-Sf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:36:03 -0400 Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9i0e-000825-6P for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:36:01 -0400 Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id A8B5F400E5; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:39:32 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1287855596; bh=/HOBMBdiBhcz616VMNbJt0m6sRhXe5yGgr54hHBcLNw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jw5C4zgbNkOdkGUWdwYsuyrJGRz4VaSv69VXCWqkqNOkpvnTaAxHB/idTP9cO8FNQ lRzAhIWqbfGQWm4H6XDQAmPUXjA7O8oE0qglapXnQDk3skNB0WYNhXD6wKtFUMX+BC eIgTUHRVq94Ej1iWuu55Xe3PAWEp/FyJHBvK2aNk= Received: from carbon (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD381E8C4B; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:26:16 +0000 (UTC) From: James Cloos To: Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv?= Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-Reply-To: <4CC2AD28.5060504@swipnet.se> ("Jan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dj=E4rv=22?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?'s?= message of "Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:38:48 +0200") References: <4CC2AD28.5060504@swipnet.se> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:26:15 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:jan.h.d@swipnet.se::u2ut8KOwfkWG0nqF:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000XQc/Z X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:rms@gnu.org::DnotnpAVOKwXcGB3:000007O8pI X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:larsi@gnus.org::HAFTvt+YnN1aFNjw:00BYN2h X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:7260@debbugs.gnu.org::7txq/xG4TNpQ7gXH:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000etcCP X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:emacs-devel@gnu.org::vVvq3H36HEVFBg7o:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000aTx7L Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) >>>>> "JD" =3D=3D Jan Dj=E4rv writes: JD> FWIW, I often mark a region with the mouse and press DEL to delete it= . JD> It is a habit picked up from other programs. But then again, I JD> enabled delsel a long time ago, so I'm used to that behaviour. Perhaps what would kill :^) the controversy would be a dwim version, kill-or-delete, which would add the region to the kill buffer if it is big enough, but not bother if it is small. Using that for DEL & C-d may cover both camps' wants. The C-u prefix arg could invert the choice, in case you really want to delete a huge region or want to cut-n-paste a small one. AISI, it would only be useful when the region is active. C-d should continue to delete just the single character to the (logical) right when the region is not active. Acting based on whether any input events occurred between activating the region and pressing C-d or DEL may be a reasonable alternative. In that case, those two keys would only kill if used immediately after activating the region. I find that I almost never want to delete (rather than kill) a region. But only /almost/ never. I could deal with C-u C-d deleting the region. But unless the region is small enough to retype quickly and easily, it would be painful for C-d on its own to delete the region. -JimC --=20 James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 23 14:06:23 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2010 18:06:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9iU3-0008F0-6b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:06:23 -0400 Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9iU0-0008Ev-BF for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:06:21 -0400 Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id C7ACA400EE; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:09:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1287857416; bh=xUSJyPhYS9IEG2GYaGRZysqg2pds4fZvPljPCGhLdAg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=e6foe2Cdj8+/jX4+aPVs33PPbN2u/RXsX9tHdhn+m70v2O0d2AKkcuYPThmvAitOd BjJrvvASr7JsXn12Dd238bFuqb4es93oQWVJ2oFooLuw4gP4gW3gFZ3IvhAshD5ebs ehi7NksWwXwlJ2SVp1ftWjj51ec3IJWWKLTnGS8s= Received: from carbon (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4831E8C4B; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:54:17 +0000 (UTC) From: James Cloos To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up In-Reply-To: (James Cloos's message of "Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:26:15 -0400") References: <4CC2AD28.5060504@swipnet.se> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 13:54:16 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:jan.h.d@swipnet.se::KOwyCd9VBJr2hS8M:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000FLRuI X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:larsi@gnus.org::cd4Pd4505Kkc0Hsj:00N1fQU X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:emacs-devel@gnu.org::XgcCoMnH8HVnx/Rl:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000bgcNb X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:rms@gnu.org::/rE9un0DmhGfnSyh:00000I0IIB X-Hashcash: 1:30:101023:7260@debbugs.gnu.org::Ga1qF2i51jPDRCJv:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000dvUKJ X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 7260@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) [I see my followup got truncated; trying again. -JimC] >>>>> "JD" == Jan Djarv writes: JD> FWIW, I often mark a region with the mouse and press DEL to delete it. JD> It is a habit picked up from other programs. But then again, I JD> enabled delsel a long time ago, so I'm used to that behaviour. Perhaps what would kill :^) the controversy would be a dwim version, kill-or-delete, which would add the region to the kill buffer if it is big enough, but not bother if it is small. Using that for DEL & C-d may cover both camps' wants. The C-u prefix arg could invert the choice, in case you really want to delete a huge region or want to cut-n-paste a small one. AISI, it would only be useful when the region is active. C-d should continue to delete just the single character to the (logical) right when the region is not active. Acting based on whether any input events occurred between activating the region and pressing C-d or DEL may be a reasonable alternative. In that case, those two keys would only kill if used immediately after activating the region. I find that I almost never want to delete (rather than kill) a region. But only /almost/ never. I could deal with C-u C-d deleting the region. But unless the region is small enough to retype quickly and easily, it would be painful for C-d on its own to delete the region. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 12:26:30 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2010 16:26:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PA3Ow-0003dK-9D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:26:30 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po43.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.104]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PA3Ou-0003dF-0O for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:26:28 -0400 Received: from furball (173-9-75-145-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.9.75.145]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po43.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o9OGUQjC003270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:30:26 -0400 Received: by furball (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D53A71607BF; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:30:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:30:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:46:15 -0400") Message-ID: <87eibf3659.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > It sounds rather odd to have `C-d' not delete the active region. If > you (for instance) Shift-Right an area, and then press `DEL', I think > most people would expect the region you've just selected to be deleted. > > After shift-arrows is a special case when it might be proper for DEL > and C-d to delete the region. This might be OK, and indeed I think it should at least be an option. One problem is that it can be confusing. Currently, temporarily active regions (i.e. shift-selected and/or mouse-selected) behave as much like ordinary active regions as possible, with respect to user commands. If we make DEL behave differently for one type of region, what's the justification for limiting ourselves to DEL? For instance, in other X applications, shift-selecting a region and typing a self-inserting character replaces the region. By this reasoning, shouldn't we enable Delete Selection mode style behavior for shift-selected regions? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 25 08:04:39 2010 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2010 12:04:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PALn5-0006NN-8w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:04:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PALmv-0006NG-Ul for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:04:37 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PALqn-000656-Le; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:08:29 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Chong Yidong In-reply-to: <87eibf3659.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Sun, 24 Oct 2010 12:30:26 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up References: <87eibf3659.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:08:29 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 7260@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) If we make DEL behave differently for one type of region, what's the justification for limiting ourselves to DEL? DEL is so special that we need no "justification" for treating it specially. However, that's not what I recommend. It's not just DEL, it is also C-d. For instance, in other X applications, shift-selecting a region and typing a self-inserting character replaces the region. By this reasoning, shouldn't we enable Delete Selection mode style behavior for shift-selected regions? Maybe we should fully enable that behavior after shift-selections and after mouse-selections. -- Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org, www.gnu.org From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 19 01:07:53 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2012 06:07:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ryzw8-0004yb-Ih for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:07:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:51686 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ryzw6-0004yU-Hd for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:07:51 -0500 Received: from bb121-6-68-155.singnet.com.sg ([121.6.68.155]:36463 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ryzu6-0003PP-AP for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:05:46 -0500 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 7260 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:05:39 +0800 Message-ID: <87k43jmk7g.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) close 7260 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 19 01:11:16 2012 Received: (at 7260) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2012 06:11:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RyzzQ-00054C-C0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:11:16 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:51712 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RyzzN-000545-RU for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:11:14 -0500 Received: from bb121-6-68-155.singnet.com.sg ([121.6.68.155]:36481 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RyzxN-0003Vm-TT for 7260@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 01:09:10 -0500 From: Chong Yidong To: 7260@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#7260: 24.0.50; DEL screwed up Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:09:04 +0800 Message-ID: <87sji7pd6n.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7260 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > Today I typed DEL after yanking some text and typing C-x C-x to go to > the beginning of it. DEL surprised me by deleting the region. This > change causes a lot of trouble. Closing, see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-10/msg00743.html From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:34 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:24:02 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator