GNU bug report logs - #7077
24.0.50; mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50; mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:39:31 -0700

emacs -Q
 
The name does not say anything about copying to the kill ring.  The name
should, like `kill-ring-save' and `copy-region-as-kill', say that this
copies to the kill ring.
 
Suggestion: `mouse-drag-copy-region-as-kill' or
`mouse-drag-kill-ring-save'.
 

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2010-09-20 on 3249CTO
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/imagesupport/include'
 

Message #8 received at 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7077: 24.0.50;
	mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 16:22:11 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> The name does not say anything about copying to the kill ring.  The name
> should, like `kill-ring-save' and `copy-region-as-kill', say that this
> copies to the kill ring.
>
> Suggestion: `mouse-drag-copy-region-as-kill' or
> `mouse-drag-kill-ring-save'.

I think that sounds reasonable, but, on the other hand, is it really
necessary for all these functions to mention "kill" in the function
name?  It seems intuitive (to me) that `mouse-drag-copy-region' puts
stuff in the kill ring -- what else would it do?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #11 received at 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#7077: 24.0.50;
	mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 08:46:24 -0700

> > The name does not say anything about copying to the kill 
> > ring.  The name should, like `kill-ring-save' and
> > `copy-region-as-kill', say that this copies to the kill ring.
> >
> > Suggestion: `mouse-drag-copy-region-as-kill' or
> > `mouse-drag-kill-ring-save'.
> 
> I think that sounds reasonable, but, on the other hand, is it really
> necessary for all these functions to mention "kill" in the function
> name?  It seems intuitive (to me) that `mouse-drag-copy-region' puts
> stuff in the kill ring -- what else would it do?

1. "Copy" can mean a couple different things.  One misunderstanding might be to
copy the region to another location in a buffer - a la copy + paste.

2. It's helpful for Emacs to be consistent and put important Emacs terms into
command names that involve them.

In particular, this makes it easy to find them using things like `apropos'.
This principle is at least as old as the Unix `apropos' command and similar.  We
generally try to have Emacs commands that deal with buffer use `buffer' in the
name; those that deal with files use `file'; with yanking use `yank', etc.

It is not so obvious, especially to a newbie, that `mouse-drag-copy-region'
copies to the `kill-ring'.  Especially now that there are multiple copy-target
thingies such as the clipboard, paste buffer, interprogram XYZ, etc. (I don't
know the correct names).

In the beginning Emacs had only the `kill-ring' for copying and pasting, but
even in that context it would be helpful for a command such as this to have a
name similar to `kill-ring-save' and `copy-region-as-kill', suggesting that it
copies to the kill ring.

Message #14 received at 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7077: 24.0.50;
	mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 16:02:34 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

>> I think that sounds reasonable, but, on the other hand, is it really
>> necessary for all these functions to mention "kill" in the function
>> name?  It seems intuitive (to me) that `mouse-drag-copy-region' puts
>> stuff in the kill ring -- what else would it do?
>
> 1. "Copy" can mean a couple different things.  One misunderstanding
> might be to copy the region to another location in a buffer - a la
> copy + paste.
>
> 2. It's helpful for Emacs to be consistent and put important Emacs
> terms into command names that involve them.

That's true, but I'm not sure that this consistency is worth renaming
user-visible customisation variables just to be that consistent.

I was confused -- I thought `mouse-drag-copy-region' was a function, but
it's a variable, which makes renaming even more of a problem, in my
opinion.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #17 received at 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#7077: 24.0.50;
	mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 07:23:29 -0700

> That's true, but I'm not sure that this consistency is worth renaming
> user-visible customisation variables just to be that consistent.
> 
> I was confused -- I thought `mouse-drag-copy-region' was a 
> function, but it's a variable, which makes renaming even more
> of a problem, in my opinion.

Option names are important, including for finding the options in the first
place.  We have a mechanism for renaming: create an alias and declare the old
name deprecated/obsolete.  Nothing new here.

The old name will anyway live on for a while (past experience shows that it will
be quite a while).  But even just the existence of the alias (a better name)
will mean that users will more easily find and recognize this option for what it
is.  That's regardless of the deprecation; the alias is the improvement.

Message #20 received at 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> stupidchicken.com>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 7077 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#7077: 24.0.50;
	mouse-drag-copy-region - name should say copy as kill
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:38:22 -0400

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> Option names are important, including for finding the options in the
> first place.  We have a mechanism for renaming: create an alias and
> declare the old name deprecated/obsolete.  Nothing new here.

The improvement is too marginal to justify a rename + obsolete
declaration.

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