From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:26:30 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#7065 <7065@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#7065 <7065@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.50; fringe values broken, doc incorrect Reply-To: bug#7065 <7065@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 08:26:30 +0000 retitle 7065 24.0.50; fringe values broken, doc incorrect reassign 7065 emacs submitter 7065 "Drew Adams" severity 7065 minor tag 7065 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 18 10:47:37 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2010 14:47:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OwyhV-0000w4-GN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:47:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OwyhU-0000vz-2g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:47:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owyjn-0007Wr-VZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:50:01 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:39380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owyjn-0007Wn-Sg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:49:59 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60475 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Owyjm-00056E-Bd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:49:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owyjl-0007WN-7C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:49:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:25347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Owyjl-0007WB-2A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:49:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o8IEns7X000490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:49:56 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o8IBdK77009274 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 14:49:54 GMT Received: from abhmt012.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 609755611284821379; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:49:39 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.218.112) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:49:39 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; fringe values broken, doc incorrect Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:50:27 -0700 Message-ID: <5F83D5F69FD64DD8AE91395EAFCAD613@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: ActXQNTj/1ZWrzOqRi278EAAqQItug== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-09-06 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' >From bug #6933: > > Can we settle this? > > Feel free to submit a separate bug report. I'm not going to do > anything about this at this time, for the reasons stated above. So here's the new bug report. See #6933 for more context and history. > > What about the confusing name `default' and the doc? > > The original bug report was only about the effect of `half'. > Documentation is an unrelated issue. See my second mail for bug #6933, which clarifies things. I specifically mention problems with the doc and with `default'. > I don't see a good reason for renaming the symbolic values. They don't do what they say. `half' is not necessarily half of `default', even when one disregards rounding. `default' itself is a misleading name. The ELisp manual calls it "standard", but even that is not great. Apparently it is the full width needed to display all fringe bitmaps. If we kept a symbolic value for this it should be something like `full'. > Doing so will surely cause back-compatibility issues, It is used only in interactive interfaces. > so IMO we need a really good reason for such a change. > > > "standard fringe width, which is the width needed to > > display the fringe bitmaps" > > > > That suggests that it is a function of the fringe bitmaps, > > not a constant width. > > They are constant for the time being, but may change in the future, > e.g. if we lift the current restriction of the display engine that > limits window width to an integral multiple of the canonical character > size. We don't name things based on such maybe-one-day-everything-will-be-different imaginings. These names have long (years) been giving the wrong impression. > > But as I say, if `default' and `half' are, in their effect, > > just hard-coded numeric widths, then let's get rid of those > > value-menu and `interactive' spec choices. There is no need for a > > value of nil unless it actually does let the > > fringe be different in different contexts (e.g. bitmap size). > > I don't think it's right to fix the choices on specific numbers. > Symbolic values allow us to change the underlying implementation in > the future without hurting compatibility. See above. The choices that users have should reflect the actual behavior, not some imagined future behavior. The only real behaviors possible today and forever into the past are fixed numeric values for left, right, or both. The UI should reflect that faithfully. It should not be a UI for some imagined alternative or future world. > The fact that some of the documentation describes the current > implementation is not necessarily a good reason to remove future > extensibility. The doc and UI should reflect the product's behavior, not some alternative behavior some developer might be dreaming of. That's a no-brainer. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 07 00:40:10 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2012 04:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9qMT-0000nF-7Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2012 00:40:10 -0400 Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:62765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T9qMM-0000n3-Nk for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2012 00:40:03 -0400 Received: by iabz21 with SMTP id z21so2776773iab.3 for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:39:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=Bvjjg58d3lrmTz4YZXaVj0Vuy9Ru0maDxSbUT+j41oc=; b=nb48y5253fmnGcFm0CLXsd4OO28ozep9Dp6WMJ8gXFjFfZSbDH0ApOBiwZnxSGsh0n HOWR8QS4tlCTW+MsmY64aQmC67NK0lZxn6b3ULWgWX0ZMx+hM80prxg0fs/h0AJg6bFY +QtUFYB+3yV6JhCJelR+ksdUGQlT+KLq1K8b028e1Wf6Xm7tCFmWs3RIXQVvxmu66r6n Jqc9ZBlTyF9j/mYNgVrcbRH8c6i0Ru5etNzAsDKZ3WJgSJY+u8MB87bORoJvVPZ1JW9p SGmoKYmqyP7dHP47bnA+W7hbGpNrEk2BYXY2lcIn+xPtDDOgb+kE9lo7+UNTuTkHaTky gOPg== Received: by 10.50.186.132 with SMTP id fk4mr17781048igc.41.1346992786219; Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ulysses ([155.69.18.183]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ua5sm6540686igb.10.2012.09.06.21.39.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:39:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: tags 7065 + wontfix Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:39:41 +0800 Message-ID: <87k3w6xx82.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) tags 7065 + wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 09 02:04:21 2014 Received: (at 7065) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 07:04:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59128 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCORA-0000fz-6J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 02:04:20 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:33834) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCOR7-0000fq-0Y for 7065@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 02:04:18 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCOQs-0007YZ-1P; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 08:04:02 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#7065: 24.0.50; fringe values broken, doc incorrect References: <5F83D5F69FD64DD8AE91395EAFCAD613@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:02:51 -0800 In-Reply-To: <5F83D5F69FD64DD8AE91395EAFCAD613@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:50:27 -0700") Message-ID: <877g947opw.fsf@building.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCOQs-0007YZ-1P X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392534242.93436@QXHGo6L6/HOb3pKnw83hMA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7065 Cc: 7065@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > They don't do what they say. `half' is not necessarily half of > `default', even when one disregards rounding. `default' itself is a > misleading name. The ELisp manual calls it "standard", but even that > is not great. Apparently it is the full width needed to display all > fringe bitmaps. If we kept a symbolic value for this it should be > something like `full'. I think `default' is a fine name, and `half-width' now really is half width. Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 09 02:04:28 2014 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2014 07:04:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCORG-0000gJ-16 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 02:04:26 -0500 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:33840) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCORD-0000gB-3q for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 02:04:23 -0500 Received: from [204.14.154.233] (helo=building.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WCOQx-0007Yl-AL for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Feb 2014 08:04:08 +0100 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 23:02:56 -0800 Message-Id: <8761oo7opr.fsf@building.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #7065 X-MailScanner-ID: 1WCOQx-0007Yl-AL X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1392534249.92717@Owq6GTke7TfdKACBSok1wg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 7065 From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:26:30 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator