From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: tpeplt Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 70402@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.17132078479359 (code B ref -1); Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:05:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 19:04:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39036 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRcO-0002O2-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:04:06 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:40120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRcM-0002K1-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRc4-0005To-Hr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:32 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRc1-0004qK-3X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:30 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6eb848b5a2eso543385a34.3 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713207807; x=1713812607; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :subject:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s8Gki/n7pAN2kSs7dYUHbeSrGFOssFZ80nS81i/4NEI=; b=hNDfJg/zzQiIKCg1fJo2M6fADXejZ1KpNGelNcMGAioP21MRzmJwre1hG3fQBogQ17 EzXHpg1wRWjI1i1WWfmdWNqWBnQhKfZIlLqctcsH2VaNBEd1/Fs3ks8RNbvmrveG32vp R63VFyDsLGD4pR8UvcwtiwGKJwR6SGn7XBs5pKttbpVFeehitFfqb9Mv/qAG59WiBjDl CyaAggxPLyeVyhzqG61jQuzo1xlteK4xqizm5/kR54PYc+DL/HzaW71S83kgi3n4ZRWF vPhCSELrZs8FvDXKYqpJSmiCPnnApTl4rNO93/xNaIl3Y8kwlCEm/CDjWg0E5J8CsXH7 3+Vw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713207807; x=1713812607; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=s8Gki/n7pAN2kSs7dYUHbeSrGFOssFZ80nS81i/4NEI=; b=K4EAoTtOQA5/f/ZVU2jK4yZtVfVehixFhK+4OOZl6q4R/QbZcKAeuSLgmR/1gp2CHL HIKN8EJvbMyAvEKUD68caxLArWFOFGCUP/SeVhHVJYR97iLAnj9agkzjpqlkCz1/fqWx nM95rxLKMy7fme948lP/4M6EVBmcsQmTSlEn8nu1dJp+XrDg+S+Xmuvua1UWA3QBhztd Gw9+LrefhUTkBGoCse7ZUwK4s28r1k7IpjJ/GgAJDtx2WBPNQvLJvQV5Da7cFjO5tOj/ mO9Dnh/uAvUhy2AG7MewueSDPYtPu/IxLKQWirhI9Ea88TUiJGrT+NDOm3xL4uchsGYR AbCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwOEAslTox367YNSW/r5yX9dDnABpuDG8Fg0vLoep7fUJ8jQ6vh q0pyzIQ5b3NbeJlDYowRXMKaZNcKLpJcM20JVoFlMDUPn3e20M4pPfRnSQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFeHJbnAcmUDshZ2WX4Gb1NZxaKac0C6wsE7xngmYhTqABcYpcOXWjH75Dyptu+jJDcDvnxOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7dc9:0:b0:6eb:7d97:92bd with SMTP id k9-20020a9d7dc9000000b006eb7d9792bdmr4848998otn.13.1713207807059; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from t530.local ([2600:8806:a821:2b00::2e6e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mh1-20020a056214564100b0069b1db7b0f8sm6498426qvb.23.2024.04.15.12.03.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: tpeplt Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f; envelope-from=tpeplt@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x32f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) In the Info node for the Emacs user manual "(emacs) Package Installation", there is the following paragraph: "To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at startup, change the variable =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 to= =E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99. You must do this in the early init file, as the variable is read before loading the regular init file. Currently this variable cannot be set via Customize." The final sentence in this paragraph says that =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 cannot be set via Customize, bu= t it is possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the following: M-x customize-option RET Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should not be possible. --=20 The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. - Geoffrey Chaucer, The Parliament of Birds. From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:25:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: tpeplt Cc: 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.171320906620333 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:25:03 +0000 Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 19:24:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRwG-0005HV-Tv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:24:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRwE-0005GQ-Cz for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:24:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRvx-0007pH-6t; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:24:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Ix/F1SUY0dUA/AUIGRMdsxCn0MREvnLdQcwP6xcKRnc=; b=T8QX5YkTB7C9rcwS1Q/D QaPod3Z1avzpqMaTK78np9UTORDvG0X1hiN5XgiK4PvHJAUfLgTB4+aZjHaUW4P8VGkOp1LE7POVK AA5qvhnKgnXyZATIQsMWcju26fI1Seyl0eTaffcbGxocsNSwqBkbz4Gu37WHRjIKvp3r8eAJavuvu 1TL7vHFfrXJ6S5ZRwp1U14+ShE3Oqbc+gB5uwwdnwZs5EsgNgr2J8O574Q7QddRcZ7wNV1kf3I9I/ /10VTzrHBdwUxH1yZSueYRM8h6gpUUYz6viEAsYcYOD9Hx1PiDUhb24IQgurFkKEG8R+0AR8tDUyG 87pHOp6qUIjGNA==; Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 22:24:01 +0300 Message-Id: <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> (message from tpeplt on Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400) References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: tpeplt > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 > > In the Info node for the Emacs user manual "(emacs) Package > Installation", there is the following paragraph: > > "To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at > startup, change the variable ‘package-enable-at-startup’ to ‘nil’. You > must do this in the early init file, as the variable is read before > loading the regular init file. Currently this variable cannot be set > via Customize." > > The final sentence in this paragraph says that > ‘package-enable-at-startup’ cannot be set via Customize, but it is > possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the > following: > > M-x customize-option RET > Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET > > After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At > Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should > not be possible. I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it must be set before reading the init file. From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: tpeplt Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:18:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.17133670434665 (code B ref 70402); Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:18:05 +0000 Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2024 15:17:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rx72F-0001CU-1j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:17:22 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]:56756) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rx72B-0001BR-94 for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:17:17 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-78edc3e7cd9so257061285a.1 for <70402@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:17:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713367016; x=1713971816; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=aAmu42WJwZ8LiA1BBCzcnDZH0xmvESdUPHslRx+5thY=; b=FDk3NgEoNLaFxH3Y+ixWyLQq9Sh5Um6WER6AdhhC+Pnlgb0R9RFq6S/xRoykqD8cQk 4YXITA3ETigorE/7FkWOxJikfr120zTc3ooE5wWlCFLDk6UB5Gamf3US2Em5z1ekBks5 rkI6NQlm2otANCN1zHJH5J2fwaSQWDZPJwpx1qaaKhU7Ey1RvnSKbCDdgWPyfguSpc3s stWNnw6hoMujYLswVO/3ToX7Lu2vBLIKEe28O5ADNAYPC85+IeTrGKgz3QI396VSX9Xx uvr+dOADDrSRENK7lwLo49tDds+Lg5N6iXdDLQc6ud3AxU/yJ1eE3azt2cPb6gCbXYtr 6WwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713367016; x=1713971816; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aAmu42WJwZ8LiA1BBCzcnDZH0xmvESdUPHslRx+5thY=; b=KBHz1YaaGomsFVy9QH1+miC7RET2piu0on6T0LLsG+1nqC5AAOH1KNv/0scwvL1xoa YQB7wTUYj+1G2Xhv8gjqG1+LPF15KRYtm7dVGcErN52IqlKWD5+e/+TofYKF9Ni3rV1i 6SqQ0g6UKkWTf6I7+vY1fEjItwQ9gotlGiNjyREAzEW1VCCl/ZkIuAyKINRDdPVv70ph 3GYvRSryJXkz1TSjwxqhfzg6iRMrb+rSGF3k/KE0lzdSw+l0oeS7G53Wgew3uOmh7GZs 9p2L9NCQOhlHUIxMFDq1Csjlnv1vCfe0fWTIseSkoJJ2b/vwHkHHarLC/Vw7qR70KJSC EMKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx0xpLBdvK3N+GOJ0ovgORCWNTrJe/1nvmSyptZHRSk/E4EWa7g lbrWLH8s30QGENeqRiLrqvoP4XM/L5RlEMM+deBgR6rWCEiGmZOR X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHL9sRG9Zo4ZplgOw5ZzVE95/ibP+B9qcXkjSC3EI0DVxuVFPHpRmvJlx/enq8PRT2XeWO2eQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:663:b0:78d:63d5:7325 with SMTP id a3-20020a05620a066300b0078d63d57325mr18105597qkh.43.1713367016518; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from t530.local ([2600:8806:a801:d4c0:1bb4:1840:c99c:2b9d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bk9-20020a05620a1a0900b0078bea498e18sm8497440qkb.22.2024.04.17.08.16.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: tpeplt In-Reply-To: <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 15 Apr 2024 22:24:01 +0300") References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:16:54 -0400 Message-ID: <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: tpeplt >> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 >>=20 >>=20 >> The final sentence in this paragraph says that >> =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 cannot be set via Customize,= but it is >> possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the >> following: >>=20 >> M-x customize-option RET >> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET >>=20 >> After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At >> Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should >> not be possible. > > I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that > customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it > must be set before reading the init file. If I understand you correctly, then there are two reasons, rather than one, for why the variable =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 shoul= d not be an (customizable) option: 1. Because the Emacs user manual says that it cannot be set (it can). 2. Because setting the variable via =E2=80=98customize-option=E2=80=99 has = no effect (it happens too late in the initialization sequence?). If the user manual says that "something" cannot be done and doing so anyway would have no effect, then it should not be possible to do that "something." --=20 The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. - Geoffrey Chaucer, The Parliament of Birds. From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: tpeplt Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.17137893107219 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2024 12:35:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45894 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ryst4-0001sL-9Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:10 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:33851) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ryst1-0001rv-9U for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:08 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1288240107 for <70402@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:34:44 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1713789284; bh=pVllB7ioaUq3zGVlrZmjKWetEzg3DCgksZQWUe+cpVA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=JbCgzwYNTCbJrMTXxClOF53BFokIrnxJuDDxhx4S70nNC2D0onvtjRG84rrJ9jE7e 1VzF/U7rqFjIOfun50/HkvLPi7LgRMssFUz//8Pvk+mho7sKQg7Z8mAQ1OczIf69dO Kd07QcsobKhLQEPzfCOYDGEuA/KjF3qU6KBjhCUKxYmzr9HSMYH3RFnFmolaBqxlgu pkZF6nbLJdwqMmH3C7v2UELcGVOumZViLC6QXxa2FkUnjkacPUmDAiaFgzpRWcKqGb UZRpxYu9B6RsZhsQ26SbfYdepYq0C80Ubs/txd7nvkdpy2dM66lHzgf/LTy54oTVTS J7TsOCBiA/KwA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VNPpC5xkLz9rxG; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:34:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> (tpeplt@gmail.com's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:16:54 -0400") References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tpeplt writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: tpeplt >>> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The final sentence in this paragraph says that >>> =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 cannot be set via Customize= , but it is >>> possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the >>> following: >>>=20 >>> M-x customize-option RET >>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET >>>=20 >>> After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At >>> Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should >>> not be possible. > >> >> I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that >> customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it >> must be set before reading the init file. > > If I understand you correctly, then there are two reasons, rather than > one, for why the variable =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 sho= uld not be an > (customizable) option: > > 1. Because the Emacs user manual says that it cannot be set (it can). > > 2. Because setting the variable via =E2=80=98customize-option=E2=80=99 ha= s no effect (it > happens too late in the initialization sequence?). > > If the user manual says that "something" cannot be done and doing so > anyway would have no effect, then it should not be possible to do that > "something." When in doubt, "cannot" for Emacs usually means "will not do what you want it to" instead of "it is not possible to", or that is at least how I read the sentence here. That being said, I guess the manual could be clarified, or one could revert `package-enable-at-startup' to a regular variable? I am not sure what the policy on the last point is. --=20 Philip Kaludercic on peregrine From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Monnier Cc: tpeplt@gmail.com, 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.1713791104954 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2024 13:05:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLw-0000Ec-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:05:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60760) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLq-0000Dw-Un for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:04:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rytLU-0000Uv-FF; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:04:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=jGp0uSA1KDRE6xD2fWpEDSsLVYvKL58Nr7hEq/J1dMQ=; b=ltWtEeBWondgPxnUOCnd 6UAdVq8P0Rn/CfQy5GiNo4e3MbCgoJdjcFlmvAYrJuvPDtmbPPByRnZQEvuZR753NJ0O1aMWFc/YZ NaOpHxdW0cCU3ZpvpxfTG8ZZRF4gswMkmwISu5F2jJvaC86WLW5p4w7549bdy0M5jUlHhw7skSrCw JI9VPF7SaEYlzICIweisIbGnj3sksEMu83eowqby6x/8tNekaQDF202/EuDA/5EON9ZSrwQcrOuDB bQvpgE8QV3L3tGDzmFnmRfsrB4Mbg0tt7xPOz2lOskYA++J+JGLJS1eCZwbSF9Al9556NbhOebnqm fBde4z9nJVRqcg==; Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 16:04:28 +0300 Message-Id: <86h6ft5z1f.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000) References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Philip Kaludercic > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 70402@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000 > > tpeplt writes: > > >>> The final sentence in this paragraph says that > >>> ‘package-enable-at-startup’ cannot be set via Customize, but it is > >>> possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the > >>> following: > >>> > >>> M-x customize-option RET > >>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET > >>> > >>> After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At > >>> Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should > >>> not be possible. > > > >> > >> I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that > >> customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it > >> must be set before reading the init file. > > > > If I understand you correctly, then there are two reasons, rather than > > one, for why the variable ‘package-enable-at-startup’ should not be an > > (customizable) option: > > > > 1. Because the Emacs user manual says that it cannot be set (it can). > > > > 2. Because setting the variable via ‘customize-option’ has no effect (it > > happens too late in the initialization sequence?). > > > > If the user manual says that "something" cannot be done and doing so > > anyway would have no effect, then it should not be possible to do that > > "something." > > When in doubt, "cannot" for Emacs usually means "will not do what you > want it to" instead of "it is not possible to", or that is at least how > I read the sentence here. That being said, I guess the manual could be > clarified, or one could revert `package-enable-at-startup' to a regular > variable? I am not sure what the policy on the last point is. Stefan, any suggestions? From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Philip Kaludercic , tpeplt@gmail.com, 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.17137920725793 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 13:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2024 13:21:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytbb-0001VN-Ld for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:21:11 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:32658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rytbW-0001UI-Lt for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:21:10 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id ADDA6441322; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:44 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1713792043; bh=uf31/u0IxHmYxQE0uVxE6EPEeEIWfRLHtyrJAJ1Jkco=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=m2hfdnf6RZhYeOc7j/wQyrRL2p2Px1C7Jj8XerzUSQV9yTcPX0/LnAMI/N8/UZgc5 3pm+BD5yvcmOXsrHiuJ5CdzosotHA9YIGfQDAQ7dVcuEh3FMpDWEmlKO87n42BYBjN qQ/DtuuY0/SImpxH7qHp+KMnxYVNgdWyDySTb2Y1k/L6AEE0hQ2m24yMUZRDOEHyjy XlyNtbF+JjcCE4+VyE9R2/tCODV6aotR7TA78sonLb1rLt/weRNkvUSXRvjyk5dthM 7gDnLaiDJMTy+3d/v+g87Ix2mWIURBoEJYeODdRXF9RvSWWMdPl57obwwKeqOQcANJ ebJPiURc0uCtg== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 81E2844026D; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.201.215]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 510FF120387; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <86h6ft5z1f.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 22 Apr 2024 16:04:28 +0300") Message-ID: References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> <86h6ft5z1f.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:41 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.012 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>>>> M-x customize-option RET >>>>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET [...] > Stefan, any suggestions? All I can offer is to muddy the water a bit more: the above customization *can* work, if you save your Custom settings in your `early-init.el` (or in another file that's loaded from that file). But, yeah, it's more misleading than useful to to have it as a Custom variable. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 15 09:03:03 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: tpeplt Subject: bug#70402: closed (Re: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description.) Message-ID: References: <86il03w5gf.fsf@gnu.org> <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 70402 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 70402@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:56:15 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1714208175-11483-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1714208175-11483-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 70402@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 70402: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D70402 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1714208175-11483-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 70402-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2024 08:55:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38902 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s0dqL-0002uG-M6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 04:55:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s0dq9-0002qn-UC for 70402-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 04:55:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s0dpk-0005xF-0Q; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 04:55:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=9zCQgxYCww/alYaJ2bTEMLbthQQxvpcMtlqN2M+vV2A=; b=Pu8J3zEf80Q+ rkmbL4eGrfYXN5V9fgTe4hgFO41xTPPDhDXtommI69Gy7eSgjwhDO5mOoihkXdJz5elkpZPfLsP+j xJFcnPLQuEPmK1v/JHoSywwMpP0O3Vsc9aUYnvwJCfEy2xF8c6rjtOPL/G0q/yAGK4Be3MM4XnRPq QpVY3u/adwPmHiR8Vaue48c9O52UqSXWMRw7nA1iYy6wQwUvE+v4819Kg8tbsti3BS7m4ZH3hyPwk daLvmehVRy99Tsn26oKf6ONF0Uyk0Pvw8MwEU3d4etBFUxDYFnaeT1w26PzEYA++m1trmzHwfz0tf YlzI+MzTvkRpL/uBxjvuIQ==; Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:54:56 +0300 Message-Id: <86il03w5gf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:41 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> <86h6ft5z1f.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70402-done Cc: philipk@posteo.net, tpeplt@gmail.com, 70402-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Philip Kaludercic , tpeplt@gmail.com, > 70402@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 09:20:41 -0400 > > >>>>> M-x customize-option RET > >>>>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET > [...] > > Stefan, any suggestions? > > All I can offer is to muddy the water a bit more: the above > customization *can* work, if you save your Custom settings in your > `early-init.el` (or in another file that's loaded from that file). Thanks, I've updated the documentation on master with this info. > But, yeah, it's more misleading than useful to to have it as > a Custom variable. I guess at this late stage we cannot make this a defvar, so I left it to be a defcustom. And with that, I'm closing this bug. ------------=_1714208175-11483-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 19:04:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39036 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRcO-0002O2-KJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:04:06 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:40120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRcM-0002K1-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRc4-0005To-Hr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:32 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwRc1-0004qK-3X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:30 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6eb848b5a2eso543385a34.3 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713207807; x=1713812607; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :subject:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s8Gki/n7pAN2kSs7dYUHbeSrGFOssFZ80nS81i/4NEI=; b=hNDfJg/zzQiIKCg1fJo2M6fADXejZ1KpNGelNcMGAioP21MRzmJwre1hG3fQBogQ17 EzXHpg1wRWjI1i1WWfmdWNqWBnQhKfZIlLqctcsH2VaNBEd1/Fs3ks8RNbvmrveG32vp R63VFyDsLGD4pR8UvcwtiwGKJwR6SGn7XBs5pKttbpVFeehitFfqb9Mv/qAG59WiBjDl CyaAggxPLyeVyhzqG61jQuzo1xlteK4xqizm5/kR54PYc+DL/HzaW71S83kgi3n4ZRWF vPhCSELrZs8FvDXKYqpJSmiCPnnApTl4rNO93/xNaIl3Y8kwlCEm/CDjWg0E5J8CsXH7 3+Vw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713207807; x=1713812607; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=s8Gki/n7pAN2kSs7dYUHbeSrGFOssFZ80nS81i/4NEI=; b=K4EAoTtOQA5/f/ZVU2jK4yZtVfVehixFhK+4OOZl6q4R/QbZcKAeuSLgmR/1gp2CHL HIKN8EJvbMyAvEKUD68caxLArWFOFGCUP/SeVhHVJYR97iLAnj9agkzjpqlkCz1/fqWx nM95rxLKMy7fme948lP/4M6EVBmcsQmTSlEn8nu1dJp+XrDg+S+Xmuvua1UWA3QBhztd Gw9+LrefhUTkBGoCse7ZUwK4s28r1k7IpjJ/GgAJDtx2WBPNQvLJvQV5Da7cFjO5tOj/ mO9Dnh/uAvUhy2AG7MewueSDPYtPu/IxLKQWirhI9Ea88TUiJGrT+NDOm3xL4uchsGYR AbCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwOEAslTox367YNSW/r5yX9dDnABpuDG8Fg0vLoep7fUJ8jQ6vh q0pyzIQ5b3NbeJlDYowRXMKaZNcKLpJcM20JVoFlMDUPn3e20M4pPfRnSQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFeHJbnAcmUDshZ2WX4Gb1NZxaKac0C6wsE7xngmYhTqABcYpcOXWjH75Dyptu+jJDcDvnxOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7dc9:0:b0:6eb:7d97:92bd with SMTP id k9-20020a9d7dc9000000b006eb7d9792bdmr4848998otn.13.1713207807059; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from t530.local ([2600:8806:a821:2b00::2e6e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mh1-20020a056214564100b0069b1db7b0f8sm6498426qvb.23.2024.04.15.12.03.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 15 Apr 2024 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: tpeplt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f; envelope-from=tpeplt@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x32f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) In the Info node for the Emacs user manual "(emacs) Package Installation", there is the following paragraph: "To keep Emacs from automatically making packages available at startup, change the variable =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 to= =E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99. You must do this in the early init file, as the variable is read before loading the regular init file. Currently this variable cannot be set via Customize." The final sentence in this paragraph says that =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 cannot be set via Customize, bu= t it is possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the following: M-x customize-option RET Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should not be possible. --=20 The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. - Geoffrey Chaucer, The Parliament of Birds. ------------=_1714208175-11483-1--