From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:39:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#70382 <70382@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#70382 <70382@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly Reply-To: bug#70382 <70382@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:39:40 +0000 retitle 70382 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly reassign 70382 emacs submitter 70382 matt@excalamus.com severity 70382 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 14 10:36:15 2024 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2024 14:36:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35947 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw0xo-0000Q3-TU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:36:14 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:40824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw0xm-0000Oe-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:36:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rw0xV-00038r-VW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:35:53 -0400 Received: from sender4-pp-f112.zoho.com ([136.143.188.112]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rw0xT-0005t3-VD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:35:53 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1713105344; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=GPusQMgw63v+6NQXKnC2Tp2KkZ6kgq8zzl3LlcnShRV0xerQZbQPAA3ez2V+u+PppKAe+uBqShtcOMo5JcUkamPaPH41lrCw+coJ7KHtjloEur/GIiKU+aTkiKO+lHhTOX1QWVJ3m3xJg9yMFrFvkTKaKoLLuFbNSQsqejB3hZ0= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1713105344; h=Content-Type:Date:Date:From:From:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Reply-To:Reply-To:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Cc; bh=5TNLI5gVg0l+KK2K6ROQosvLnhoCkdi1YLgC6BG/qEk=; b=CFATulF2EY9QGVr1p6RjOqDWH/ORH7Tx9nDDNOj8kw7CnLZ0XFbRQmoEVQepe4Qfr9pDLfDgZkIZYh2K4tHE1KwdJtGDJswlgEs6dzejVXRckgy5GvuAmfYej1+2rnpUMuuMUzO2OuD+TLlxAUk2tIa+oQw+Yg1pY9nX8qiG9WI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=excalamus.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=matt@excalamus.com; dmarc=pass header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1713105344; s=zmail; d=excalamus.com; i=matt@excalamus.com; h=Date:Date:From:From:Reply-To:Reply-To:To:To:Message-Id:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:Subject:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Cc; bh=5TNLI5gVg0l+KK2K6ROQosvLnhoCkdi1YLgC6BG/qEk=; b=Qo6/bOM/I37hzHKHRrEzlUlZRfCB8ASCOyIZD0SpuTOklo0rW48mOntoCIaSS/sE l39RfBKIhl8Xkzdpj4Zl/xeYzOyZI4Rx/NB46t293LFX1FfSD6JoO90gt+dekGVSRkB moXkl+u5FBpSdseFXICBVUyQjXhZ1B9wZfx1KHBc= Received: from mail.zoho.com by mx.zohomail.com with SMTP id 1713105341879407.45958537511024; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 07:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 16:35:41 +0200 From: Matt To: "bug-gnu-emacs" Message-Id: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2106971_28527971.1713105341782" Importance: 3 User-Agent: Zoho Mail X-Mailer: Zoho Mail X-Zoho-Virus-Status: 1 X-Zoho-AV-Stamp: zmail-av-1.1.0/213.57.70 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.112; envelope-from=matt@excalamus.com; helo=sender4-pp-f112.zoho.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: matt@excalamus.com Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) ------=_Part_2106971_28527971.1713105341782 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authors of GNU documentation who use Emacs to read the Texinfo info manual = are misled by the default settings into using the wrong Texinfo commands. The following uses: - info (GNU texinfo) 7.1 - tar 1. Download the latest version of the texinfo info manual (version 7.1, 18 = October 2023): https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/ 2. Extract 'texinfo.info' from the tarball: tar xzvf texinfo.info.tar.gz 3. Open 'texinfo.info' in the Info reader: info ./texinfo.info 4. Press 6 1 to navigate to "5.1 Different Cross-reference Commands" 5. Observe that @xref uses (capital 'N') "*Note" and @ref uses (lowercase '= n') "*note": =E2=80=98@xref=E2=80=99 Used to start a sentence with an Info cross-reference saying =E2= =80=98*Note NAME: NODE.=E2=80=99 or with 'See ...' in other output formats. =E2=80=98@ref=E2=80=99 Used within or, more often, at the end of a sentence; produces an Info cross-reference saying =E2=80=98*note NAME: NODE.=E2=80=99, a= nd just the reference in other output formats, without the preceding 'See'. 6. Open 'texinfo.info' in Emacs: emacs -Q texinfo.info 7. Go to line 3570 (M-g M-g 3570) 8. Observe that the texinfo source matches the command-line info reader: =E2=80=98@xref=E2=80=99 Used to start a sentence with an Info cross-reference saying =E2= =80=98*Note NAME: NODE.=E2=80=99 or with 'See ...' in other output formats. =E2=80=98@ref=E2=80=99 Used within or, more often, at the end of a sentence; produces an Info cross-reference saying =E2=80=98*note NAME: NODE.=E2=80=99, a= nd just the reference in other output formats, without the preceding 'See'. 9. Open 'texinfo.info' using the Emacs info reader using 'C-u C-h i texinfo= .info' 10. Press 6 1 to navigate to "5.1 Different Cross-reference Commands" 11. Observe that both "*Note" and "*note" are rendered as lowercase "see": =E2=80=98@xref=E2=80=99 Used to start a sentence with an Info cross-reference saying =E2= =80=98see NAME.=E2=80=99 or with 'See ...' in other output formats. =E2=80=98@ref=E2=80=99 Used within or, more often, at the end of a sentence; produces an Info cross-reference saying =E2=80=98see NAME.=E2=80=99, and just = the reference in other output formats, without the preceding 'See'. This is a problem because 'makeinfo' does *not* compile texinfo to other fo= rmats as described by the Emacs rendered version of the Texinfo info manual= ! Specifically, 'makeinfo' renders @xref as (capital 'S') "See" in HTML an= d other formats. The Emacs rendering misleads readers to believe that @xre= f renders as (lowercase 's') "see" in HTML and other formats. I attempted a fix and was unsuccessful. Emacs controls the default renderi= ng of info files, in part, with 'Info-hide-note-references'. The default f= or 'Info-hide-note-references' is to "replace '*note' with 'see'." Unfortu= nately, 'Info-fontify-node', which handles the actual rendering, ignores ca= se sensitivity. This causes a match on "*Note", which corresponds to @xref= commands, to be considered as "*note" and, because of the default behavior= of 'Info-hide-note-references', to be replaced with (lowercase 's') "see "= . In the attached diff, I attempted to make the default 'Info-hide-note-refer= ences' behavior match the description in the texinfo.texi document for HTML= . That is, to replace "See" for @xref related notes (capital 'N' "*Note").= I attempted to differentiate which type of "note" pattern was matched. H= owever, I was unable to get the match to work correctly. Despite setting '= case-fold-search' to nil, lowercase "*note" was still matched and incorrect= ly replaced the same as @xref. -- Matt Trzcinski Emacs Org contributor (ob-shell) Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org Support Org development at=C2=A0https://liberapay.com/org-mode ------=_Part_2106971_28527971.1713105341782 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=v01-make-Info-hide-note-references-render-more-like-command-line-info-reader.diff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ZM_AttachId: 139323981417830130 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=v01-make-Info-hide-note-references-render-more-like-command-line-info-reader.diff diff --git a/lisp/info.el b/lisp/info.el index b459406959e..1b0fee0efac 100644 --- a/lisp/info.el +++ b/lisp/info.el @@ -5038,6 +5038,14 @@ first line or header line, and for breadcrumb links.") (save-excursion (search-forward "\n\n" start t))) "See ") + ((save-match-data (let ((case-fold-search nil)) + (save-excursion + (search-forward "*Note" next t))) + "Banana ")) + ((save-match-data (let ((case-fold-search nil)) + (save-excursion + (search-forward "*note" next t))) + "banana ")) (t "see ")))) (goto-char next) (add-text-properties ------=_Part_2106971_28527971.1713105341782-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 14 12:22:20 2024 Received: (at 70382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2024 16:22:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36029 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw2cW-0008DG-6A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:22:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55962) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw2cT-0008CD-DF for 70382@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:22:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rw2cC-00065B-7O; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:22:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=eqrGQqWoatjVdJwSOKrPLnM51pVCwKpXPt2e/H4bBlE=; b=nAGJU0/koEe13HO1GCjo 2+dtJOke6c6FQcaJx8LXZ8qUkbu4SrC4KdSLOg5oRSC+MxnIqM3GnE/Fulu9a6zq5z4kOxFO6+PRa rWk370fZ/5GE0vkHQsczRQmCebgNKg07grK5IgiXtriy/vH8mLfC3lv5YvF1AeE0aBF9PiD7Bp7Ek 8eEQY41OpChyuwium9UXRXQFycRrXWE9QzsF6oDbZ+lPG1qtIvbq1Oyk4B3sSBadz1jeX8DXpUFS2 gTJVKE4yKsLxk65mkTuY7u6J0b1TQrYDSbiwKK7V1ZH4COIpuC5h+EKWfGtK5zj7B/9q7jfsG204c VmESu2XtOBDK/w==; Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 19:21:57 +0300 Message-Id: <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: matt@excalamus.com, Juri Linkov , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> (message from Matt on Sun, 14 Apr 2024 16:35:41 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382 Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 16:35:41 +0200 > From: Matt > > 6. Open 'texinfo.info' in Emacs: > > emacs -Q texinfo.info > > 7. Go to line 3570 (M-g M-g 3570) > > 8. Observe that the texinfo source matches the command-line info reader: > > ‘@xref’ > Used to start a sentence with an Info cross-reference saying ‘*Note > NAME: NODE.’ or with 'See ...' in other output formats. > > ‘@ref’ > Used within or, more often, at the end of a sentence; produces an > Info cross-reference saying ‘*note NAME: NODE.’, and just the > reference in other output formats, without the preceding 'See'. > > 9. Open 'texinfo.info' using the Emacs info reader using 'C-u C-h i texinfo.info' > > 10. Press 6 1 to navigate to "5.1 Different Cross-reference Commands" > > 11. Observe that both "*Note" and "*note" are rendered as lowercase "see": > > ‘@xref’ > Used to start a sentence with an Info cross-reference saying ‘see > NAME.’ or with 'See ...' in other output formats. > > ‘@ref’ > Used within or, more often, at the end of a sentence; produces an > Info cross-reference saying ‘see NAME.’, and just the > reference in other output formats, without the preceding 'See'. > > This is a problem because 'makeinfo' does *not* compile texinfo to other formats as described by the Emacs rendered version of the Texinfo info manual! Specifically, 'makeinfo' renders @xref as (capital 'S') "See" in HTML and other formats. The Emacs rendering misleads readers to believe that @xref renders as (lowercase 's') "see" in HTML and other formats. > > I attempted a fix and was unsuccessful. Emacs controls the default rendering of info files, in part, with 'Info-hide-note-references'. The default for 'Info-hide-note-references' is to "replace '*note' with 'see'." Unfortunately, 'Info-fontify-node', which handles the actual rendering, ignores case sensitivity. This causes a match on "*Note", which corresponds to @xref commands, to be considered as "*note" and, because of the default behavior of 'Info-hide-note-references', to be replaced with (lowercase 's') "see ". > > In the attached diff, I attempted to make the default 'Info-hide-note-references' behavior match the description in the texinfo.texi document for HTML. That is, to replace "See" for @xref related notes (capital 'N' "*Note"). I attempted to differentiate which type of "note" pattern was matched. However, I was unable to get the match to work correctly. Despite setting 'case-fold-search' to nil, lowercase "*note" was still matched and incorrectly replaced the same as @xref. Thanks. The problem here is not the case-sensitivity. The problem is that info.el, the Emacs Info reader, attempts to decide whether to display "See" or "see" based on the surrounding text (such as whether the reference is at the beginning of a sentence etc.). This does not work in that specific node of the Texinfo manual, because it specifically shows what makeinfo produces in the Info file, not how the references will look in the reader. You will see that the paragraph about @ref in that section is also shown incorrectly (the Emacs Info reader doesn't show "see" for @ref), and the paragraph about @pxref incorrectly says the result starts with "*note" (it actually starts with "see"). I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch below attempts to do that. Juri and Stefan, do you see a cleaner solution? diff --git a/lisp/info.el b/lisp/info.el index b459406..24b4402 100644 --- a/lisp/info.el +++ b/lisp/info.el @@ -4876,6 +4876,9 @@ Info-breadcrumbs ;; 'font-lock-face 'header-line line) line)) +(defvar info--dont-hide-references + '(("texinfo" "Cross Reference Commands")) + "Manuals and nodes where `Info-hide-note-references' should be ignored.") (defun Info-fontify-node () "Fontify the node." (save-excursion @@ -4893,6 +4896,14 @@ Info-fontify-node (or (eq Info-fontify-maximum-menu-size t) (< (- (point-max) (point-min)) Info-fontify-maximum-menu-size)))) + (Info-hide-note-references + (if (member Info-current-node + (assoc-string + (file-name-sans-extension + (file-name-nondirectory Info-current-file)) + info--dont-hide-references t)) + nil + Info-hide-note-references)) rbeg rend) ;; Fontify header line From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 14 14:43:59 2024 Received: (at 70382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2024 18:43:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw4pb-0006sh-EH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:59 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:2069) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw4pY-0006sU-Ud for 70382@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:57 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 29B7010004C; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:39 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1713120218; bh=AaHIGHULVOb7tkroYVha5xzDxWbDbAXkf+4ChJDhIzs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Ed+OU1JDmJy21mfadxVICTD9SpMd206LI5v6TJ6ixdRdB/WBbOkeSQeXvaxNrTvoF 4jSztKdEyOzue2E99Gy+rMj0pPpRQmIUCvXRPgPSMaoAKfx1EBqdSA91g1bkHNpFpm A767IvLaK+wq4FGMp7kQcHBH4ZgHml5o/A9T3+Sz0fbii3MXb/zQdrMU2X8649JPVp 2pc2hin1M9uHwvOqP2+wVGTrrdKUo2jkjqWWs6vMGIn8q78g/2Se5SlBNrOVI5b482 Y19lgNU5mbAQS4Sqr66KAW2KIPa6ZF9c5PXV+o9ImGYZMrYLlIqU0Oi972q8Cp2Rlj XFShvnoyhe0hQ== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1A599100048; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.201.215]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E244612068E; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly In-Reply-To: <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Apr 2024 19:21:57 +0300") Message-ID: References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:31 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.025 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382 Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org, matt@excalamus.com, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > will look in the reader. You will see that the paragraph about @ref > in that section is also shown incorrectly (the Emacs Info reader > doesn't show "see" for @ref), and the paragraph about @pxref > incorrectly says the result starts with "*note" (it actually starts > with "see"). Yes, our prettifying of cross-references gets confused here because it mistakes the doc's text for a cross-reference (because that text is indeed showing an example of what such cross-references look like). Given that the Info format doesn't document what the actual text should look like, our prettifying can only be heuristic. Notice that even if you set `Info-hide-note-references` to nil, the "*Note NAME: NODE." is still highlighted if it were an actual cross-reference (and if you click on it you jump to the "node" node). In the Info reader, the behavior is almost the same: this example is also highlighted but if you hit RET on it it signals an error because it can't find a node named "NODE" (looks like `/usr/bin/info` is case sensitive while Emacs's Info reader is not). IOW, Texinfo's own reader gets confused by its own doc. > I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable > Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other > nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch > below attempts to do that. Sounds OK. > Juri and Stefan, do you see a cleaner solution? We could try and detect that the cross ref is within a '...'. BTW, I'm not sure whether the current behavior is really a problem: after all, in Emacs, people indeed won't see something of the form `*note NAME: NODE.` but they'll see something of the form `see NAME` or `See NAME`, so the bug could be considered a feature (depending on whether we think the doc describes the content of the Info file or whether it describes when readers will see when reading their doc in Emacs). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 14 15:16:38 2024 Received: (at 70382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2024 19:16:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw5LB-0003dO-Qx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:16:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rw5L8-0003cs-6s for 70382@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:16:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rw5Kq-0006hU-Ua; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:16:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=DA1Nq6s9BQD2YxeZVhNy7kcum34A053ZteS9wyx+l+0=; b=ljc4m36UDw4O uwCuEVAx2th6K7WDPSnr7AglFkNCs3dvAhQV3mGfzQEH0qrkYocOOCkQhy7SBY3c6+UykKphl+zgb KvZkjMic9tF3eFgz2HnGG2caCKb2rxeZbYf/kcOP7yYGJ5T9XZU27+LZd+iFXKs9nVXCgVRlUJMbn 0LDm6tA+tTQXdPe98zGQnPaZZhQOnFnaH56cCeZ1TENXaskdtg/ZbwoLzXN3G4vDm1T3Ra+p14PK+ UZ5ig4jmz598SGXUrzQ5aAjK+Db4iUW606+AJcPMSvItY+faOqvfSfKHCxBL0DBghQya4ATl8CFaK 6YRnRTpn9C6COqL0VNLVRg==; Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 22:16:13 +0300 Message-Id: <861q77n4aq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:31 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382 Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org, matt@excalamus.com, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: matt@excalamus.com, Juri Linkov , 70382@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:43:31 -0400 > > > I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable > > Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other > > nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch > > below attempts to do that. > > Sounds OK. OK, I will install this soon, unless Juri (or someone else) comes up with something more elegant. > > Juri and Stefan, do you see a cleaner solution? > > We could try and detect that the cross ref is within a '...'. That would fail in other cases. > BTW, I'm not sure whether the current behavior is really a problem: > after all, in Emacs, people indeed won't see something of the form > `*note NAME: NODE.` but they'll see something of the form `see NAME` or > `See NAME`, so the bug could be considered a feature (depending on > whether we think the doc describes the content of the Info file or > whether it describes when readers will see when reading their doc in > Emacs). Yes, but here we make worse mistakes: not only we should "see" with wrong capitalization, we also make the impression that @ref shows as "see" in Emacs (it doesn't) and @pxref shows "*note" (it shows "see"). (I think the text should have a note that in Emacs these cross-references will look differently, but that's a patch to be submitted to the Texinfo developers.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 15 03:08:45 2024 Received: (at 70382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 07:08:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwGSL-0001XT-FX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 03:08:45 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::222]:38287) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwGSI-0001X3-IA for 70382@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 03:08:43 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0DACF4000E; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 07:08:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly In-Reply-To: <861q77n4aq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Apr 2024 22:16:13 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> <861q77n4aq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 09:55:19 +0300 Message-ID: <86y19fp0ls.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382 Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , matt@excalamus.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable >> > Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other >> > nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch >> > below attempts to do that. >> >> Sounds OK. > > OK, I will install this soon, unless Juri (or someone else) comes up > with something more elegant. Like many self-reference cases this needs an exception too, so probably there is no better way than info--dont-hide-references (maybe this name should be upper-cased to Info--dont-hide-references like other Info variables). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 15 07:40:11 2024 Received: (at 70382) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 11:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwKgy-0006Yo-6z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 07:40:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwKgs-0006WV-8Z for 70382@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 07:40:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwKgY-0004zc-G6; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 07:39:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=tpQp4Al3degYrK367hqKoGXKt9uF7/MuAq0TPp3yqzk=; b=oPR1CdLJtKFi gIy7BH7nJQzOdy4B8FMkCRLu7dPaBAH7RLNLNClx1EvlOPGAs6rwIHXf9uG7J5cT57XtF1mjYMhh2 6iDwvdtlFDXdds4EXMc4cyUOxk1RtVsjZC35PrUaSU/IDIlDEKvB5OEKtst5ifT4UOvfcF8AAlXqJ KPv4PIHYFXSrFX6m8XnODmOWQKU3rBo3nyscdvBCPlGEdJ6vSj83Y/yjGbk7tQbfhGZe3Eu0p1NTK U9LUa3RSS88S3VX/BBXVvQg5Q70Y3Hc8cGBM4bFCHkrhpiWDHq6Tk06NNhQmCVfIBqU6OwTbYKYCv TPLbM1qzPwBUWzyMELF+MQ==; Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 14:39:02 +0300 Message-Id: <86mspulusp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86y19fp0ls.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 15 Apr 2024 09:55:19 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> <861q77n4aq.fsf@gnu.org> <86y19fp0ls.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382 Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, matt@excalamus.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: Stefan Monnier , matt@excalamus.com, > 70382@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 09:55:19 +0300 > > >> > I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable > >> > Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other > >> > nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch > >> > below attempts to do that. > >> > >> Sounds OK. > > > > OK, I will install this soon, unless Juri (or someone else) comes up > > with something more elegant. > > Like many self-reference cases this needs an exception too, so probably > there is no better way than info--dont-hide-references (maybe this name > should be upper-cased to Info--dont-hide-references like other Info variables). I named it "info--*" so that this internal variable doesn't get in the way when one completes on Info variable names. But I see now that we already have quite a few internal names that start with "Info--", so I guess that ship has sailed long ago. Thanks for the feedback, will install soon. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 15 08:51:52 2024 Received: (at 70382-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2024 12:51:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwLoL-0003lE-PB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:51:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42922) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rwLmh-0003Mt-0U for 70382-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:50:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rwLmN-0002WH-Le; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:49:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FJOYicVKge2GmWEiEP/u9z+Zmu5ozcKsriJgzLsMb/o=; b=D+dbc7VoYLdp 4A1lGPmp/v63nbBz3f66vE08xdwTp3ZVUnCXJjbamU7Tktl4JPLYzycnAqq8JbkX/FC650sk3o8dW sZqaGAKXd035vMJwEE6hIW0E5Dnj9Q5ilxnSt5zkRHkG1D/ahWK2sbGmu/sRu+dvsHz51nzYD+AYQ fQH6CKtPC4kVefnyUGJtsJBwzPTTG3Tc5FkVv9Uri/2qz+asvfF8Fu6gslsmsM/Ru7BFU2e1VvANM z6MVsLIFmd68Mx1JSGmdA1TpQMb0JvXM9IOxTH0+Nizr3YHvI95kBLlrjyheL+tAznC5e1a6AJJTC rzD2CdAVMU/YN1Oj9PHamg==; Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:49:16 +0300 Message-Id: <86il0ilrjn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: juri@linkov.net In-Reply-To: <86mspulusp.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Mon, 15 Apr 2024 14:39:02 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#70382: 29.3; Info-fontify-node renders cross-references misleadingly References: <18edd090d56.b4d9f833651238.7754717828208203833@excalamus.com> <86edb7ncd6.fsf@gnu.org> <861q77n4aq.fsf@gnu.org> <86y19fp0ls.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86mspulusp.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70382-done Cc: 70382-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, matt@excalamus.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 70382@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, matt@excalamus.com > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 14:39:02 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > > From: Juri Linkov > > Cc: Stefan Monnier , matt@excalamus.com, > > 70382@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 09:55:19 +0300 > > > > >> > I think the only sane way of dealing with this problem is to disable > > >> > Info-hide-note-references in that particular node (and any other > > >> > nodes, if we find them, where there's a similar issue). The patch > > >> > below attempts to do that. > > >> > > >> Sounds OK. > > > > > > OK, I will install this soon, unless Juri (or someone else) comes up > > > with something more elegant. > > > > Like many self-reference cases this needs an exception too, so probably > > there is no better way than info--dont-hide-references (maybe this name > > should be upper-cased to Info--dont-hide-references like other Info variables). > > I named it "info--*" so that this internal variable doesn't get in the > way when one completes on Info variable names. But I see now that we > already have quite a few internal names that start with "Info--", so I > guess that ship has sailed long ago. > > Thanks for the feedback, will install soon. Now done on master, and closing the bug. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:39:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator