From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:36:04 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#70157: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 70157 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 70157@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.171211531926524 (code B ref -1); Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:36:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2024 03:35:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrPB-0006tP-36 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:35:19 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:47364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrP6-0006sD-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:35:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrOs-0003VD-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:34:58 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrOq-0000XA-Mi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:34:58 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0333520.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 432Liv7u020055 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-11-20; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=U+QL44PiIXpMHI5AEec2Nr5BfgAKf06G5OHNcBqXWG8nwlXSAeuLUmSKcxOKbUa29zOv bp3Uhfkwij0jG83uYIkAC+AkjgjlV7nQZtg3XBjUIR9YkD0A6/yeiD9pGBUgdlkY7YBn rRYvfQm2zFagXTVEaIoCVd7y1frK/hDQ9pU8ijWTUk8J1a6dY93on1Bx8NFK9elboWCM yW+cbizfj439pG9+oSUweLCwrKM2ZCJEHRYOsfnQ7cymgzwfcXlmcOf1VHCpjgcWi7UE Qc7KoBtzWbCAxIdELB/7DEqy0ex2ycIIV1DZtflgi6pd01PTy5v2sY4x7jk86lJK0XI4 vA== Received: from iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.100.223]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3x7tb9v72u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:34:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 4331aYsS001276 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:51 GMT Received: from nam10-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10lp2100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.100]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3x696dyhv4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:34:51 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nWCFbAAAMmmwlgiWkiZl8VHfa+zn5uYTzD9/dHRZ1P3TTshSpTnJNtXEkk49NeRbLgPtzWrPSSMonYgn//4kd9sVzWBWHwuYZFzdOyzWn4ztBDe8qcZihJeKx2qmwqpnGeXG47eHZJpOCTuDz2yQ+A/7m80baX/8ynuWdxJcP1Y9D4L3Lfs+ik4boSTvAJwyekmKwBjObUkgnF+juHwgCuKv9KZ8b8RAIxN7rKPkpeP4/fHtGysGNICL7JKtS40tS0hspBdlM9YiO48kSKqradK0lqrEUHXpJZRzwCoxu1WyPiR4NdE7E2lKv2GjL/caQoHSQPffyB40t509uGTWiw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=T2tgD0AYKZZ7TTGML0WZ5TAtiEhOWGziOG/Yj4ZTp3gAXTbFxTHPsbAA0/4oh+u3eCKh6w71fTHqaWiNj2nS5FBu2OC6XsCpeg7iPZ+NLvzwrqjnPYZWtDqLPx06M4yMEmFIVSw3vReaiYom3ephFWrun7QiZC18+81w6a2vQwT0w/Gv4isyW9EbJFi5YoHSmy4JZHBw0S5eeH/+8me1aJeXoyDGzLZ62/kWIZGq9DG+0W6IH6ifjWHcMGVEQy0bTOjWwiFiF70aAhZhKiGyQPNDbeX22yJLAVMaaUo9lQ7W/FjbVj0plEYesjMddfHTRGjBXMv4GP4YXY2kR3/OcA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=fNWc6ClU4rQ0xIYODlx0YGGDivJpng2qUAkU05EpPeGVX3SsT7Vt0ZudRigT0K1B/vbHdRKM7cq60I3zEgwreiPDDS85fmfqEMcDTKzM4tLfbMoHmdTmTZobimcLpy7JFpIaMFZ1Llfq7+e95K0FVhaa8YQgn2DBqRy+x0jeH7M= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by CH3PR10MB6884.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:145::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.46; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:49 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d9bc:c5bb:7fc4:cf9f]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d9bc:c5bb:7fc4:cf9f%6]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.042; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:48 +0000 From: Drew Adams Thread-Topic: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' Thread-Index: AdqFd6iGWb2sNaFATX+R552XCbNKgw== Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|CH3PR10MB6884:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(1800799015)(376005)(366007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 954a8702-6a46-4831-9aef-08dc538f03d4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2024 03:34:48.9193 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: atKlqePBH+XHl7/1aJABLNcT3ZpuDyW6hETHW+QsMighktInJh7uVSaSwQeHOtq9WbBnFdZBg3xRazfVTW2SHg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH3PR10MB6884 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-04-03_02,2024-04-01_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2403210000 definitions=main-2404030023 X-Proofpoint-GUID: m4fVogaliEEDVBJvdreug8cmEvpUvUq3 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: m4fVogaliEEDVBJvdreug8cmEvpUvUq3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -7 X-Spam_score: -0.8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_DOTEDU=1.999 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) The default mouseover help text when editing a buffer in emacs-lisp-mode is this: "Using old dynamic scoping mode" That's incorrect and misleading. 1. There's no "NEW dynamic scoping mode". 2. Lexical binding is not new - it's as old as the hills. Even for Emacs it's not new - it's been available for quite a while. 3. There's technically no such thing as "dynamic scope" - that's a convenient misnomer. The Common Lisp doc makes this clear: "In addition to the above terms, it is convenient to define dynamic scope to mean indefinite scope and dynamic extent. Thus we speak of `special' variables as having dynamic scope, or being dynamically scoped, because they have indefinite scope and dynamic extent: a special variable can be referred to anywhere as long as its binding is currently in effect. The term `dynamic scope' is a misnomer. Nevertheless it is both traditional and useful." https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node43.html#SECTION007000= 00000000000000 Emacs Lisp's approach to lexical and dynamic binding is very close to that of Common Lisp, and it will become even closer (essentially the same) when lexical binding becomes the default. Emacs Lisp is not Scheme. Dynamic binding is important to Emacs. RMS's arguments about this make perfect sense today, as they did decades ago: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17. What the `d' help should say is that dynamic binding is currently the default in the buffer. Nothing more, nothing less. Just the facts, ma'am. In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2024-03-24 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.4170) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot --without-compress-install --with-sqlite3 --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2' From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:36:04 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Drew Adams Subject: bug#70157: closed (Re: bug#70157: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d') Message-ID: References: <86y19u8zs1.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 70157 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 70157@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 11:14:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1712142844-15194-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1712142844-15194-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #70157: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 70157@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 70157: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D70157 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1712142844-15194-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 70157-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2024 11:13:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rryZ0-0003vq-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 07:13:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rryYv-0003uf-FH for 70157-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 07:13:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rryYl-0007dz-DP; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 07:13:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GHFgd0IASXRfnh5hYDv8AfrxRtnS+BgZXPdTRCDrznM=; b=ddSHcaBvJSuI PtEV+dPdi06ppreD1NwQY+elYdTtBIEqiSRUZUeADZlmgVLv0O1XXXs79yJL9pkDEz0UoBHN1dwft bKRE9eqmFVqSvnYZVh92+NPswZPfQo54jrZ13I4opdk66sF0U2uG687Qs7/AgCWu1C/X6bv2jpz4W VmO28jtUsgZnLSuCigEIMxYFkZU6DSyRl800jgNDOhy2od5sorQh3R7YIPpBiUcjvi8cS5+J2egyJ TqZZELkgf3R68A3pHL6kL2biB/QFH11qWG4OOo/gWCyIPOUiE0ZqrUZ5w+L+R+OHcVZWIDYSBfyBG Uw3KoFEgDI+aLh9Rf+SV7Q==; Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 14:13:34 +0300 Message-Id: <86y19u8zs1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#70157: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70157-done Cc: 70157-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 70157 notabug wontfix thanks > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:48 +0000 > From: Drew Adams via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > The default mouseover help text when editing a buffer in emacs-lisp-mode > is this: > > "Using old dynamic scoping mode" > > That's incorrect and misleading. I disagree. I see no reason to change what we have, and so I'm closing this non-bug. ------------=_1712142844-15194-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2024 03:35:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrPB-0006tP-36 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:35:19 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:47364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrP6-0006sD-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:35:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrOs-0003VD-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:34:58 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rrrOq-0000XA-Mi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 23:34:58 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0333520.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 432Liv7u020055 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:53 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-11-20; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=U+QL44PiIXpMHI5AEec2Nr5BfgAKf06G5OHNcBqXWG8nwlXSAeuLUmSKcxOKbUa29zOv bp3Uhfkwij0jG83uYIkAC+AkjgjlV7nQZtg3XBjUIR9YkD0A6/yeiD9pGBUgdlkY7YBn rRYvfQm2zFagXTVEaIoCVd7y1frK/hDQ9pU8ijWTUk8J1a6dY93on1Bx8NFK9elboWCM yW+cbizfj439pG9+oSUweLCwrKM2ZCJEHRYOsfnQ7cymgzwfcXlmcOf1VHCpjgcWi7UE Qc7KoBtzWbCAxIdELB/7DEqy0ex2ycIIV1DZtflgi6pd01PTy5v2sY4x7jk86lJK0XI4 vA== Received: from iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.100.223]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3x7tb9v72u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:34:52 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 4331aYsS001276 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:51 GMT Received: from nam10-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10lp2100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.100]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3x696dyhv4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 03:34:51 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nWCFbAAAMmmwlgiWkiZl8VHfa+zn5uYTzD9/dHRZ1P3TTshSpTnJNtXEkk49NeRbLgPtzWrPSSMonYgn//4kd9sVzWBWHwuYZFzdOyzWn4ztBDe8qcZihJeKx2qmwqpnGeXG47eHZJpOCTuDz2yQ+A/7m80baX/8ynuWdxJcP1Y9D4L3Lfs+ik4boSTvAJwyekmKwBjObUkgnF+juHwgCuKv9KZ8b8RAIxN7rKPkpeP4/fHtGysGNICL7JKtS40tS0hspBdlM9YiO48kSKqradK0lqrEUHXpJZRzwCoxu1WyPiR4NdE7E2lKv2GjL/caQoHSQPffyB40t509uGTWiw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=T2tgD0AYKZZ7TTGML0WZ5TAtiEhOWGziOG/Yj4ZTp3gAXTbFxTHPsbAA0/4oh+u3eCKh6w71fTHqaWiNj2nS5FBu2OC6XsCpeg7iPZ+NLvzwrqjnPYZWtDqLPx06M4yMEmFIVSw3vReaiYom3ephFWrun7QiZC18+81w6a2vQwT0w/Gv4isyW9EbJFi5YoHSmy4JZHBw0S5eeH/+8me1aJeXoyDGzLZ62/kWIZGq9DG+0W6IH6ifjWHcMGVEQy0bTOjWwiFiF70aAhZhKiGyQPNDbeX22yJLAVMaaUo9lQ7W/FjbVj0plEYesjMddfHTRGjBXMv4GP4YXY2kR3/OcA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ChyCEI2UqlvTOlz89h9zm3AcGn5iPbWvQtHjsDnO/Y4=; b=fNWc6ClU4rQ0xIYODlx0YGGDivJpng2qUAkU05EpPeGVX3SsT7Vt0ZudRigT0K1B/vbHdRKM7cq60I3zEgwreiPDDS85fmfqEMcDTKzM4tLfbMoHmdTmTZobimcLpy7JFpIaMFZ1Llfq7+e95K0FVhaa8YQgn2DBqRy+x0jeH7M= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by CH3PR10MB6884.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:145::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7409.46; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:49 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d9bc:c5bb:7fc4:cf9f]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d9bc:c5bb:7fc4:cf9f%6]) with mapi id 15.20.7409.042; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:48 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Subject: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' Thread-Topic: 29.3; Bad mouseover help for mode-line `d' Thread-Index: AdqFd6iGWb2sNaFATX+R552XCbNKgw== Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 03:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|CH3PR10MB6884:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: /ivBZAYlDBCN9T+BYTPIdtcN3tTzd24A1oRweMeRYL0GxCeCKCZCz8nz70iPGuWSYBjqr9plVL2NU6jWuyBlYEtGVm454Avj13fYBjjEFL4MsjNjwi2rPNDkgRf648MrKs7IA4IoeZ2ngJUhFzUymuj9xUE8fCGUByIFNKKdlIAiYUwvTgFpUF359MVpu855HYzGZ3ifUFIJhwlXFzPJJ3BU7ZfA55uFvGJEX6w4/pumugO/y8ABQF0wzsSRlXNMqZHDtQ+WIVVbXzXqrjPoVuuqCtexQOw1lJyNUjwJSSEdTeeMJ8kQd393VUEuRufOeGSJdxr6EQwmsjg9Ci8qkrqPEvOwAXdPF3kHg1g6rGc7+CPeOI1PDCLgRKsV9g7zloFKXcDZZ41SJVK7BV5wN07bU7AzWDPTjKkEEx012SezRCup66awUFjlwMK/MuVRdVjXay6XCnWwkwm/0m2zAVa/oNQf7tID4WmXctTzDCkFfoKuR4nP4PU0Ko8s3/CkLulmhrl5L4I3YOqUd7KyIWXMO9AnbjwpSzQ1AYmgsJZ433djvefZuWwgdKw/OQrvk9VuR3ZLQkfTyg+qbZMDLeI0G8Bfu9bYNBsi9zVrQvPKwqOhxXs/VS5pirFrZLbM x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(1800799015)(376005)(366007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?BjBdB+hzsN5QdAX7RmYu2zPNwe97H/e9AMMvRhoUVSJgA2cV+UNnGi2q0e2W?= =?us-ascii?Q?GyT94dl41KOoACx/sDaVL0kHWGa/l8B9q+XGgzhj2Hg5RfCzyYztpb7GZ+de?= =?us-ascii?Q?Oz1OA/OevtI7147bRxy5/u0R+43jQjSsVUpiML8aD3ifqWktbdrSOepjiC/X?= =?us-ascii?Q?unnNorDmpd6sC7VudXo7d04eZTyXkGbJHE2erAdGtpi8u15zQ5Ebs0LoYT4r?= =?us-ascii?Q?oA4Q9pcCHRA/iCPUB7FXghpLiDc6Eaph5OIptGwiqMWg54PCUYssau/qlSLq?= =?us-ascii?Q?NXfqYh2FiAp5iY9V3nZQNoY2BqJvHtcqfpNgI6ba1bF5rYQMrXrDMu7ZG0qO?= =?us-ascii?Q?DuX1QWHRK/c3x9Zp/RK5OHpK8RqWDmeOiJwDYY9oQyBJWJDsNC/AkhbfsMq3?= =?us-ascii?Q?6yqLJaPssXY7qItLi3Cpldy+IvRsD67k7+jIbosRI0YSb0JNXt5a+hKmd33I?= =?us-ascii?Q?6jjmIOS7yhz+S875bRlpjiTb5P5jl+iAYeZSh4gObF94hwKz73xCC/Tr6kJv?= =?us-ascii?Q?8E45pCcsb9xX/7mNMQYnH9yMy8LVPAp6GtufhWy7LzU50CzxgXExr+mqnuos?= =?us-ascii?Q?9+kGC02u1lciiEKk1/A0aaOuftlquzF0I2xxtw4/VfhXlRD9dVM7DkEd7ntn?= =?us-ascii?Q?4azLzweTrEZ4kkOmovmzd5wrl3u4AGO2+gOS6BctwCsJdZ9F+C8xnReoiYvi?= =?us-ascii?Q?dKyjA8lyst7lNt1J0q6+qOWr7kc0MxK44IABJUg2FYxE6BnS6Fyx+RU4QGjL?= =?us-ascii?Q?uEW2wkO5jqjhpOFYWqICqZRKWm1WSugHVy8IGVa74xol/slq8ptizL2Trwuv?= =?us-ascii?Q?wy5fXQjowL7qVVTmo0iMc1L9f2+FZ8HQtY64fhbGCHGvqydv3StOY/9oxhI+?= =?us-ascii?Q?dI9ZcexFwZ+zMLc3BdGy0zF+2iDA6Hyxqa/v3N0auRqoH3RRZic8GRdc9LiF?= =?us-ascii?Q?pVaqWY/ZrJcuZuOQxL1eFvn1Lp4MH9vRX80Cvmg1LZqz1O4YArDSE41BgaGd?= =?us-ascii?Q?nnNPKX/FwI8iXbn2lm603aFNFgmiw6Z0CQzPUQlANQFRNg0Pkg8M0+V13dud?= =?us-ascii?Q?axECWe1wXvjWjTcJCyKpd2sRI9ZKVbbTzP3B2+xXcSCw2AoW+jBPBTNspGpG?= =?us-ascii?Q?xUvuD/IUvRmnLXZJPzRvVm1FYl/AwWE1N31g6XOhfnBaojdg2yr9i9ksCYYN?= =?us-ascii?Q?xfjrlZAG77OVPJEbARuZavfrQePK47/a7CDTcqpkHQTy4po/ZdKhHEVZ0xZW?= =?us-ascii?Q?nDTOZMPTqktapCWVdXmcI1EH72Ah7OWz6u0aaZnf8u/NsDVyxzsOhzmo69SC?= =?us-ascii?Q?AKDqs3Hc52oICcG+ggSt/F7/wbnotCTtB4AuQlhdeVdLGZ9BnaJsf8VyK9i/?= =?us-ascii?Q?tO45hP+pEPryXd/jA7vS/JFt2KAysNIbbNk+zCvAt1DqAAV6qEiKa9ZbM/dt?= =?us-ascii?Q?egwkB85ofxgMtYGxcxCbkSGBA8rXTyRDe4mPLVRoDDcrB3b+jv6Pc1kcW+o0?= =?us-ascii?Q?pdsyKfY5zlNxcShu+RFOR3R8zEeTY7RLCUJK9ZZ7Nd3Bke44bcyMBxUZ+Nwj?= =?us-ascii?Q?aIUdz8QRPAo7yDv0XOZHlYWwZL7VLBgiSl604C81?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 954a8702-6a46-4831-9aef-08dc538f03d4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2024 03:34:48.9193 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: atKlqePBH+XHl7/1aJABLNcT3ZpuDyW6hETHW+QsMighktInJh7uVSaSwQeHOtq9WbBnFdZBg3xRazfVTW2SHg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH3PR10MB6884 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-04-03_02,2024-04-01_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2403210000 definitions=main-2404030023 X-Proofpoint-GUID: m4fVogaliEEDVBJvdreug8cmEvpUvUq3 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: m4fVogaliEEDVBJvdreug8cmEvpUvUq3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -7 X-Spam_score: -0.8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_DOTEDU=1.999 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) The default mouseover help text when editing a buffer in emacs-lisp-mode is this: "Using old dynamic scoping mode" That's incorrect and misleading. 1. There's no "NEW dynamic scoping mode". 2. Lexical binding is not new - it's as old as the hills. Even for Emacs it's not new - it's been available for quite a while. 3. There's technically no such thing as "dynamic scope" - that's a convenient misnomer. The Common Lisp doc makes this clear: "In addition to the above terms, it is convenient to define dynamic scope to mean indefinite scope and dynamic extent. Thus we speak of `special' variables as having dynamic scope, or being dynamically scoped, because they have indefinite scope and dynamic extent: a special variable can be referred to anywhere as long as its binding is currently in effect. The term `dynamic scope' is a misnomer. Nevertheless it is both traditional and useful." https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node43.html#SECTION007000= 00000000000000 Emacs Lisp's approach to lexical and dynamic binding is very close to that of Common Lisp, and it will become even closer (essentially the same) when lexical binding becomes the default. Emacs Lisp is not Scheme. Dynamic binding is important to Emacs. RMS's arguments about this make perfect sense today, as they did decades ago: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17. What the `d' help should say is that dynamic binding is currently the default in the buffer. Nothing more, nothing less. Just the facts, ma'am. In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2024-03-24 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.4170) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot --without-compress-install --with-sqlite3 --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2' ------------=_1712142844-15194-1--