GNU bug report logs - #7005
24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, Miles Bader <miles <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 21:34:26 +0530

Hi,

Steps to reproduce:
Open a file containing UTF-8 Devanagari script in Emacs. It is rendered
incorrectly. For example, in the word "लिखने", The first and second
rendered characters are swapped. Konsole (Qt) renders this correctly.

A page on the EmacsWiki suggests a workaround that works on Ubuntu
though [1].

Thanks.

[1]: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SupportHindi

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.20.1)
 of 2010-08-21 on elegiac, modified by Debian
 (emacs-snapshot package, version 1:20100903-3)
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10707000
configured using `configure  '--build' 'x86_64-linux-gnu' '--host' 'x86_64-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs-snapshot:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.0.50/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp' '--without-compress-info' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: utf-8
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Message #8 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
To: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:34:02 +0900

In article <20100909160424.GA16852 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Steps to reproduce:
> Open a file containing UTF-8 Devanagari script in Emacs. It is rendered
> incorrectly. For example, in the word "लिखने", The first and second
> rendered characters are swapped. Konsole (Qt) renders this correctly.

Emacs 23 and later shifted the support of Indic (and any
other complex scripts) to OpenType fonts.  And, on
GNU/Linux, you need libotf, m17n-db, and m17n-lib to make
Emacs render those scripts correctly by OTF.

> A page on the EmacsWiki suggests a workaround that works on Ubuntu
> though [1].

It's not a "workaround" but the right thing on GNU/Linux
systems.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org

Message #11 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
To: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:21:27 +0530

Hi Kenichi,

Kenichi Handa writes:
> In article <20100909160424.GA16852 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Steps to reproduce:
> > Open a file containing UTF-8 Devanagari script in Emacs. It is rendered
> > incorrectly. For example, in the word "लिखने", The first and second
> > rendered characters are swapped. Konsole (Qt) renders this correctly.
> 
> Emacs 23 and later shifted the support of Indic (and any
> other complex scripts) to OpenType fonts.  And, on
> GNU/Linux, you need libotf, m17n-db, and m17n-lib to make
> Emacs render those scripts correctly by OTF.

Thanks for the explanation.

> > A page on the EmacsWiki suggests a workaround that works on Ubuntu
> > though [1].
> 
> It's not a "workaround" but the right thing on GNU/Linux
> systems.

I see. Well, I suppose I should put it like this then:
1. Emacs should then refuse to render Devanagari without the required
   libraries, not render them incorrectly.
2. I have those libraries installed on my Debian Sid machine, and
   Emacs still doesn't render them correctly. I don't suppose this
   belongs here- I'll head over to bugs.debian.org.

Thanks.

-- Ram

Message #14 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Romain Francoise <romain <at> orebokech.com>
To: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
Cc: miles <at> gnu.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:34:57 +0200

Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 2. I have those libraries installed on my Debian Sid machine, and
>    Emacs still doesn't render them correctly. I don't suppose this
>    belongs here- I'll head over to bugs.debian.org.

emacs-snapshot is deliberately built without m17n/otf support, so
this is not a bug.

Message #17 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
To: Romain Francoise <romain <at> orebokech.com>
Cc: miles <at> gnu.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:10:16 +0530

Hi Romain,

Romain Francoise writes:
> Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > 2. I have those libraries installed on my Debian Sid machine, and
> >    Emacs still doesn't render them correctly. I don't suppose this
> >    belongs here- I'll head over to bugs.debian.org.
> 
> emacs-snapshot is deliberately built without m17n/otf support, so
> this is not a bug.

Ah, I see. By the way, why is it built without m17n/otf support?

-- Ram

Message #20 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Romain Francoise <romain <at> orebokech.com>
To: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
Cc: miles <at> gnu.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:46:38 +0200

Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Ah, I see. By the way, why is it built without m17n/otf support?

Historically because when m17n/otf support was added to Emacs, the
m17n/otf packages in Debian were outdated and the maintainer was
apparently missing. But now that I look into it again, it seems that
they have a new maintainer and the state of the packages looks
pretty good, so I think I'll enable m17n/otf in a future snapshot
release.

Message #25 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
To: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:30:03 +0900

In article <20100910045115.GE27725 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> I see. Well, I suppose I should put it like this then:
> 1. Emacs should then refuse to render Devanagari without the required
>    libraries, not render them incorrectly.

What do you exactly mean by "refuse to render Devanagari"?
Show just empty boxes for each character?

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org

Message #28 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
To: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:35:05 +0530

Hi Kenichi,

Kenichi Handa writes:
> In article <20100910045115.GE27725 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > I see. Well, I suppose I should put it like this then:
> > 1. Emacs should then refuse to render Devanagari without the required
> >    libraries, not render them incorrectly.
> 
> What do you exactly mean by "refuse to render Devanagari"?
> Show just empty boxes for each character?

Yeah, or something like that. Isn't that better than rendering
something that's incorrect and misleading?

-- Ram

Message #31 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
To: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:21:07 +0900

In article <20100916120501.GA5217 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Kenichi,
> Kenichi Handa writes:
> > In article <20100910045115.GE27725 <at> kytes>, Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > 
> > > I see. Well, I suppose I should put it like this then:
> > > 1. Emacs should then refuse to render Devanagari without the required
> > >    libraries, not render them incorrectly.
> > 
> > What do you exactly mean by "refuse to render Devanagari"?
> > Show just empty boxes for each character?

> Yeah, or something like that. Isn't that better than rendering
> something that's incorrect and misleading?

I'm not sure.  I myself prefer seeing each character by its
original shape (i.e. no-reordering, no-ligature,
no-positioning) than seeing just empty boxes.

It may be good to highlight incorrectly rendered part by
some warning face.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org

Message #34 received at 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon <at> gmail.com>
To: Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org>
Cc: rfrancoise <at> debian.org, 7005 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, miles <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7005: 24.0.50; Devanagari rendering broken
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:30:57 +0530

Hi,

Kenichi Handa writes:
> I'm not sure.  I myself prefer seeing each character by its
> original shape (i.e. no-reordering, no-ligature,
> no-positioning) than seeing just empty boxes.
> 
> It may be good to highlight incorrectly rendered part by
> some warning face.

Sure, that makes sense.

-- Ram

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