From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 23 16:40:22 2024 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2024 20:40:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ro8A9-0002kq-Ar for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:40:22 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ro85M-0002WK-Gb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2024 16:35:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ro6CY-0001pM-RB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2024 14:34:43 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ro6CW-0000l1-B9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2024 14:34:42 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0E15240003 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2024 18:34:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols Organization: LINKOV.NET Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 20:27:45 +0200 Message-ID: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.193; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay1-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) I wonder why case-folding is not supported for letters from the Unicode block "Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols Is it because the Unicode standard doesn't provide information about their case-folding? And indeed they are missing from https://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/CaseFolding.txt But OTOH, I can't find the file CaseFolding.txt in admin/unidata. This means Emacs doesn't use this file? Then should we add more case-folding information explicitly for this Unicode block? Case-folding is already supported for some characters from other Unicode blocks such e.g. FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, etc. But e.g. PARENTHESIZED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs are missing too. What is worse is that in Emacs β’œ doesn't have even a word syntax like its counterpart πŸ„. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 24 02:40:26 2024 Received: (at 69968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2024 06:40:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32840 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roHWr-0005TC-5J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 02:40:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roHNQ-00051x-Kc for 69968@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 02:30:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1roHKY-00009y-NJ; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 02:27:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=3cvD37VrCOAsjx603eCQo3n2NSpQTCAx2OUK+rxff8Y=; b=qly7vpndbgBSoDPdRLXl V5Yl38ciotGoVqpxXA9qF3yy8mc5RyHAc7D9iNCuF0RwcVuta/U/86LdyI4GLHh98A/6oXIoCo7rQ WPfoiFLtyevfWNrp/taIzIxbykG2apt5Xa5LVNKo15yDbfxcQo64Iyozfj8iT51fuXytxmFYTVAWl asynGNmVzXQcCUdVQs6bq9h/g3IWJcwDY659cKyecNpTIzlrTa1hxHHYm4DxnXpBxozvF7+kJQOOd Oz5BHXgENWUPrWNoVWTMLYjysWxyPHRnfmQRoFPLOfaL85WiXdxXPhVd6pKexPiTNFBvMJvOrjAl0 lL/+mgDTK6zMWQ==; Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 08:27:39 +0200 Message-Id: <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sat, 23 Mar 2024 20:27:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968 Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 20:27:45 +0200 > > I wonder why case-folding is not supported for letters from > the Unicode block "Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols": > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols These are not letters, they are symbols. And letter-case is not defined for symbols. > Is it because the Unicode standard doesn't provide information > about their case-folding? And indeed they are missing from > https://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/CaseFolding.txt Unicode doesn't consider them letters. > But OTOH, I can't find the file CaseFolding.txt in admin/unidata. > This means Emacs doesn't use this file? We don't. We use the case-conversion information in UnicodeData.txt, as it tells us everything we need to know. > Then should we add more case-folding information explicitly > for this Unicode block? What is the rationale for doing so? It's against Unicode, so we need to have a good reason, as this will have to be maintained by hand, and also because some users might be surprised. > Case-folding is already supported for some characters from other > Unicode blocks such e.g. FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, > CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, etc. That's because UnicodeData.txt defines their letter-case conversions. > But e.g. PARENTHESIZED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs are missing too. > What is worse is that in Emacs β’œ doesn't have even a word syntax > like its counterpart πŸ„. I think the fact that πŸ„ has the word syntax might be a mistake. These are both symbols, so why would we want them to have the word syntax? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 24 13:21:50 2024 Received: (at 69968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2024 17:21:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45378 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roRXZ-0004tH-LG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 13:21:50 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:55397) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roRXW-0004sY-DE for 69968@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 13:21:48 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F3A9BFF803; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 17:20:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols In-Reply-To: <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 24 Mar 2024 08:27:39 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:09:10 +0200 Message-ID: <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968 Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I wonder why case-folding is not supported for letters from >> the Unicode block "Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols": >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols > > These are not letters, they are symbols. And letter-case is not > defined for symbols. π˜‹π˜° 𝘺𝘰𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘒𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘯𝘬 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘡𝘦𝘹𝘡 π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘡 𝘸𝘳π˜ͺ𝘡𝘡𝘦𝘯 𝘸π˜ͺ𝘡𝘩 π™‘π™šπ™©π™©π™šπ™§π™¨? >> Is it because the Unicode standard doesn't provide information >> about their case-folding? And indeed they are missing from >> https://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/CaseFolding.txt > > Unicode doesn't consider them letters. Ок, if Unicode doesn't consider them letters, let's stick to the Unicode standard. >> But OTOH, I can't find the file CaseFolding.txt in admin/unidata. >> This means Emacs doesn't use this file? > > We don't. We use the case-conversion information in UnicodeData.txt, > as it tells us everything we need to know. Thanks, I didn't remember that case-conversion is in UnicodeData.txt. I checked admin/unidata/UnicodeData.txt and indeed there is no case-conversion for Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols. >> Then should we add more case-folding information explicitly >> for this Unicode block? > > What is the rationale for doing so? It's against Unicode, so we need > to have a good reason, as this will have to be maintained by hand, and > also because some users might be surprised. I don't think that some users might be surprised because when they don't need to change case, they just don't use case-changing functions. But when they expect that case should be changed, then indeed they will be surprised that case is not changed. >> Case-folding is already supported for some characters from other >> Unicode blocks such e.g. FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, >> CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, etc. > > That's because UnicodeData.txt defines their letter-case conversions. Ok, then it's very strange that the Unicode standard doesn't define letter-case conversions for other letters. But what can we do. >> But e.g. PARENTHESIZED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs are missing too. >> What is worse is that in Emacs β’œ doesn't have even a word syntax >> like its counterpart πŸ„. > > I think the fact that πŸ„ has the word syntax might be a mistake. These > are both symbols, so why would we want them to have the word syntax? Because they look like letters with diacritics. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 24 14:08:38 2024 Received: (at 69968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2024 18:08:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roSGs-00071v-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 14:08:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60622) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roSGp-00071g-ES for 69968@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 14:08:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1roRuI-0005Kl-LW; Sun, 24 Mar 2024 13:45:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Xn8sPVsyBcLFb4qdPcuydCEJu4OhUlEXYLfGPx59pnc=; b=Au+i7HBnAlNYLV599j6k afOzXnlu8n+Bb0vLYTpw7dbVZQlfxu6YGZz1kXZAemwwiRmLmQF5MK88atm/rbFdK1DCJycjtOz8K H9JKGmC4OUAPDLpjPbHmkygK8kOlIKOClKgDxsaHkSYreB/fxR7wtBVu5H7DIbNlx/IlcR49Fbhfe KGP+TUwZdU7kgIrgFuVsJJKR8bTqQiyY7lCTvFhrr9lZO9vl8565sO+pctPvRt57f3799LROZh2ZD 8oA68anOxeqgBcApMKhLr3cuBpqfr9MSwvgtOjQE15Qq5Z+DbvtiJb/a6CJxt8HBA+hKp+XfYFgpF 63z/mXkLJt5zHQ==; Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:45:14 +0200 Message-Id: <86zfunjzh1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:09:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968 Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:09:10 +0200 > > >> I wonder why case-folding is not supported for letters from > >> the Unicode block "Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols": > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols > > > > These are not letters, they are symbols. And letter-case is not > > defined for symbols. > > π˜‹π˜° 𝘺𝘰𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘒𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘯𝘬 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘡𝘦𝘹𝘡 π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘡 𝘸𝘳π˜ͺ𝘡𝘡𝘦𝘯 𝘸π˜ͺ𝘡𝘩 π™‘π™šπ™©π™©π™šπ™§π™¨? What does that prove? The fact that the glyphs look like normal letters doesn't mean they are. Like β„΅ and β„Ά are not Hebrew letters they look like (and have left-to-right directionality). And similarly with πžΈ€, 𞸁 and other mathematical symbols in that block aren't Arabic letters, and in particular don't shape like Arabic letters. > >> Case-folding is already supported for some characters from other > >> Unicode blocks such e.g. FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, > >> CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, etc. > > > > That's because UnicodeData.txt defines their letter-case conversions. > > Ok, then it's very strange that the Unicode standard doesn't define > letter-case conversions for other letters. But what can we do. We can define case-conversions for them if we decide to do so. Moreover, Lisp programs which for some reason need that can do that themselves, even if by default there are no case-conversions defined for them. The question is when and why is this needed? > >> But e.g. PARENTHESIZED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs are missing too. > >> What is worse is that in Emacs β’œ doesn't have even a word syntax > >> like its counterpart πŸ„. > > > > I think the fact that πŸ„ has the word syntax might be a mistake. These > > are both symbols, so why would we want them to have the word syntax? > > Because they look like letters with diacritics. Not sure I agree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 25 03:48:57 2024 Received: (at 69968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2024 07:48:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47843 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rof4j-00028j-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 03:48:57 -0400 Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.201]:40747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rof4g-00027w-RL for 69968@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 03:48:55 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 203BC1BF205; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 07:48:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols In-Reply-To: <86zfunjzh1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:45:14 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86zfunjzh1.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 09:37:10 +0200 Message-ID: <867chqhjbd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968 Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> >> I wonder why case-folding is not supported for letters from >> >> the Unicode block "Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols": >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols >> > >> > These are not letters, they are symbols. And letter-case is not >> > defined for symbols. >> >> π˜‹π˜° 𝘺𝘰𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘒𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘯𝘬 𝘡𝘩π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘡𝘦𝘹𝘡 π˜ͺ𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘡 𝘸𝘳π˜ͺ𝘡𝘡𝘦𝘯 𝘸π˜ͺ𝘡𝘩 π™‘π™šπ™©π™©π™šπ™§π™¨? > > What does that prove? The fact that the glyphs look like normal > letters doesn't mean they are. Like β„΅ and β„Ά are not Hebrew letters > they look like (and have left-to-right directionality). And similarly > with πžΈ€, 𞸁 and other mathematical symbols in that block aren't Arabic > letters, and in particular don't shape like Arabic letters. I agree that these characters were intended to be used only as mathematical symbols. The problem is that often these symbols are abused as letters to apply more styles in applications that don't support styles. There are special sites such as https://www.textconverter.net/ that convert ASCII text to styled Unicode characters. I don't use such sites, but once tried to copy such text to Emacs and discovered that Isearch already nicely supports the search of these characters by char-fold. So it was a surprise that unlike char-fold, case-fold is not supported to ignore case while searching. >> >> Case-folding is already supported for some characters from other >> >> Unicode blocks such e.g. FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, >> >> CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTERs, etc. >> > >> > That's because UnicodeData.txt defines their letter-case conversions. >> >> Ok, then it's very strange that the Unicode standard doesn't define >> letter-case conversions for other letters. But what can we do. > > We can define case-conversions for them if we decide to do so. > Moreover, Lisp programs which for some reason need that can do that > themselves, even if by default there are no case-conversions defined > for them. The question is when and why is this needed? Probably case-conversions for them could be added later only when there is more support for such symbols in Emacs: for example, after creating an input method to input them, or better a command that will convert the region of ASCII chars, etc. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 25 11:59:26 2024 Received: (at 69968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2024 15:59:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1romjO-0003jX-4c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 11:59:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41486) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1romjF-0003iB-Fz for 69968@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 11:59:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rojaL-0005nq-PW; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 08:37:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=pC1O4qyZNZcohH2b2ijcZNHRLXFCWuAcBe9jlmHZ1Bc=; b=rFjUZMmGl1zA SxsBLq1w2OybeAmo+czVRFczdMzKA79QiM3ZJcnlfr6LZJhlFQBWhaZFzT1EtXHwnhQU4oEjCc+gy fgofvnsPm1W1/mbJjxFW/bt8dxMCo/htbEkB3H3GV+NHQy61y0EclSQZ8mmT0JkbcSrTHRUfLPapL xLC1OW4LHgHG03wwSwBeoS6qBef35+Jz6/u0qjTVeuYNsQDXNsLShvD6avmLelkb4NaTMtQlJy2kz t/vnxMVOtwVyZcC9Huxpvy9ZwLu0dI7+uaKMoN7RjpwQAzTCeyzNPh2+NKGJ+w0wBPFv6jxdF6hfK 3hh14U3WxxVKNTu8V1Eu7w==; Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 14:37:49 +0200 Message-Id: <86o7b2jxlu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <867chqhjbd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 25 Mar 2024 09:37:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86zfunjzh1.fsf@gnu.org> <867chqhjbd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968 Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 69968@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 09:37:10 +0200 > > >> Ok, then it's very strange that the Unicode standard doesn't define > >> letter-case conversions for other letters. But what can we do. > > > > We can define case-conversions for them if we decide to do so. > > Moreover, Lisp programs which for some reason need that can do that > > themselves, even if by default there are no case-conversions defined > > for them. The question is when and why is this needed? > > Probably case-conversions for them could be added later only > when there is more support for such symbols in Emacs: > for example, after creating an input method to input them, > or better a command that will convert the region of ASCII chars, > etc. I agree that case-conversions for these characters would make more sense as part of a larger package which would allow using these characters as letters. In any case, making a lower-case character L and upper-case character U a case-pair is simple: (let ((tbl (standard-case-table))) (set-case-syntax-pair U L tbl)) The above makes the change global, but it can also be made buffer-locally; see "Case Tables" in the ELisp manual for more details. I guess we can now close this bug? Or is there anything else to do here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 25 13:21:12 2024 Received: (at 69968-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2024 17:21:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36125 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roo0W-0006GL-Fw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 13:21:12 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::226]:44119) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1roo0P-0006Ee-5L for 69968-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 13:21:05 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A263BC0003; Mon, 25 Mar 2024 17:20:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#69968: Case-folding of Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols In-Reply-To: <86o7b2jxlu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 25 Mar 2024 14:37:49 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86zfuoua66.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86r0g0xhyc.fsf@gnu.org> <86le67abtb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86zfunjzh1.fsf@gnu.org> <867chqhjbd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86o7b2jxlu.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:18:37 +0200 Message-ID: <86bk72ck8a.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 69968-done Cc: 69968-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I agree that case-conversions for these characters would make more > sense as part of a larger package which would allow using these > characters as letters. In any case, making a lower-case character L > and upper-case character U a case-pair is simple: > > (let ((tbl (standard-case-table))) > (set-case-syntax-pair U L tbl)) > > The above makes the change global, but it can also be made > buffer-locally; see "Case Tables" in the ELisp manual for more > details. > > I guess we can now close this bug? Or is there anything else to do > here? Thanks for the explanations, so I'm closing this now. From unknown Sat Aug 16 13:50:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 11:25:15 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator