From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.170595586926634 (code B ref -1); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:38:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2024 20:37:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41828 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS13E-0006vV-Pg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:37:49 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:58718) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS13B-0006vB-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:37:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rS130-0008Ra-6o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:37:35 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::134]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rS12x-0002fO-9F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:37:33 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50ec948ad31so3924912e87.2 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 12:37:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705955849; x=1706560649; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:to:content-language:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=uYBb0Tp6PLltxsqT4LY7AuMs64vORjK37xzCYhP1dxs=; b=i9nPsQSWov5kYZSqFOMV7+Q6yPNYLAtqWWdy+saU30q5NR9yw/T0Ey76qFBeEGLHLx Qsjkl+ZlcW76lYQUdQ6ca0uQdZfbjbuNxgDWCJ87cYAxXwcn0zHGRiVLWVqi+9VWwz69 0nJiFEXSuFVsypfNqHy+Idi3n4FaYC4K464/LFzO2VDWhNnbN3Ho42XcdWKlSD4UYe0Y S5BTeSNoQRVe/M3T77D8dlnbmkrgQDd6fyBIkNPVUqQMciW5mzeUiuSCgRmULVQ9yGU6 mMWuVkPcpbFEolvmcXIXtqNJ9OXUoRM1KccgS/H746sssLYU28umrDNfPJyTAr0+FDds WFpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705955849; x=1706560649; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:to:content-language:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=uYBb0Tp6PLltxsqT4LY7AuMs64vORjK37xzCYhP1dxs=; b=EKihfl+nPozezpQ6iBgN6dFDoRHPH1LYJaqZWooieqBVaiUgPkBl2w3EmJsiWAwg33 d5MP1gdhiC907KHDzUzvQD95ARTkffMpTYKrLVqvSqyGDYCiQxLpR81jU7P+ZXLa4BxJ mMDakWNpv1cWLWdlO+9x9BKEVGT2rtBsrMw84j0G+D8MjxQ0nxhYRL0fCM2pemr61cEC 490891Vmy7DNCu4ye4Coyz4gmOml91dj9GSDf4QB0OGOpW5FONz7+I6HF9ofy9f+HAcg Zd4HeEtPrAMSxQzsd0NHNYMkTzftSXVSF/6PnyNu1owv8zDREWVJvJBP+1P8L1JDJ6Ef x3og== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy0rudmaXgFhTrUA+jOEVDHtopE4CoclIwxYnhwnbzmnyl26co8 K3+XHS80LxdUqt9fNxrkl332V3ttZfb8IiiRoZQqcaPwWhWx7XjOJDElBojo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFgl4Wo157heORrD0+LAOYd9t0pIwBy7ZVngwsMurvLazIHy8dJ2NW714R6ze7oVTdvMT3ZgA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:ee13:0:b0:50e:3812:c075 with SMTP id g19-20020a19ee13000000b0050e3812c075mr1823647lfb.117.1705955848502; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 12:37:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.199.2] (broadband-90-154-73-37.ip.moscow.rt.ru. [90.154.73.37]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a14-20020ac2504e000000b0050e7c7794dasm2097391lfm.282.2024.01.22.12.37.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 12:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:37:25 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: ru, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::134; envelope-from=nikolay.kudryavtsev@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x134.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Hello. Ever since 29.1 there's been a regression in user prompts when closing Emacs with multiple modified buffers. Now user only gets 3 options: - Close without saving - Save all - Cancel In 28.2 and earlier, for every buffer, the user would get the prompt asking to save the file and the following options: -Yes(save the file) -No(don't) -View This Buffer -View This Buffer And Quit -View Changes in This Buffer -Save This Buffer But No More -Save All Buffers -No For All I would argue that, while the old dialog may have been over-complicated in terms of user options, the new dialog is useless. The only two options available are the ones that a reasonable user would never use. So he has to press cancel and then lets hope he knows about M-x save-some-buffers. While restoring the old dialog would certainly be an improvement over the current situation, maybe some options should be trimmed from it to avoid overwhelming the user with too many options and maybe the whole thing should be ported to a minibuffer prompt(made into a front-end over save-some-buffers). It's 2024 and we no longer have to pretend that the 90s GUI conventions are the future. I can see that there's been some debate over this on emacs-devel, back in 2022: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-01/msg01727.html From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev , 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170596688714058 (code B ref 68663); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:42:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2024 23:41:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS3ux-0003eg-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:41:27 -0500 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:57019) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS3uu-0003eP-Bv for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:41:25 -0500 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E06845C0125; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:41:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:41:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1705966874; x=1706053274; bh=VRugN3xuwNxvE0GKKHnvtIjtc7DUW6Cm3ZNLy8DLL54=; b= odPqTFmXrf9G3b8p/+ywD5lV5YJYls0csoGU4LI0N7uxeiLGtWu7u3SnPM2eKH8c hGvPmsXtdAA/1JGnVsaIK7I68yLwKR/P5EuS7/g1JYtr6dle/cNoqAfuDMcrfuCk 8edvhJIOEZvl4wlKdv0TpYKwUffLIZ06DgkyGZe2cqe+XGWdEJC4cj8c26lSKlbu FSa6sLLCziDwFgGZLJG/qcA9gFC1SR/3AhUoKbfcGhi0ImYq/kwplg54dK86jUYr bTRbyVSBx6Zc2ELcf966iXBftaGfAp8v+ClPVS1/tSV6EZ0uPt6n0sqOKq9po88/ WjmhznFgybpqJJ6kgwM02w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1705966874; x= 1706053274; bh=VRugN3xuwNxvE0GKKHnvtIjtc7DUW6Cm3ZNLy8DLL54=; b=a +khM4q7Yv8tZev/Ekl77wgpMp/KnwXh4OMwgLyeVxY3ugIfJFOcGgLWsr69XkaI/ vpFiYssTS11Th1JFe+CqtMWGrf4grKPw7F6RLh10oD66U+MgVbuLNezbjhSaFkiX hOKh5zwUl5aeBLXMUCyAU5q4d1TooffkVyLFuYwMI+vpgz2zuYNWVuOrPfZ1CHtv uYsaVjjgTMLHkgP/v09y15U2+K+vaS1v9KQvHAHRlc0yxI9N8Y2Jh/jZmtgT8YcW JE9ZZ50p+qxpIl9npjXn7QannYpbn0JPHBGTJl5/86dwDsf4p5H/o7f2j/h/QHm7 j6xXOUmoAaWiK6FYY3jCA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdekjedguddvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvfhfhjggtgfesthejredttddvjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpedthfeuvddtveelgeeuleevvdejveehffevveehvdeuffdtfefhvdeugefgtefg tdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:41:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <66532307-d494-43f7-832d-53808e85c06a@gutov.dev> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 01:41:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 22/01/2024 22:37, Nikolay Kudryavtsev wrote: > While restoring the old dialog would certainly be an improvement over > the current situation, maybe some options should be trimmed from it to > avoid overwhelming the user with too many options and maybe the whole > thing should be ported to a minibuffer prompt(made into a front-end over > save-some-buffers). It's 2024 and we no longer have to pretend that the > 90s GUI conventions are the future. Maybe it could allow presenting a combined diff, rather than showing the diffs for the buffers one by one. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 11:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.17063537334017 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 11:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 11:08:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTgYO-00012h-N8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:08:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTgYM-00012U-Ke for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:08:51 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTgYA-0003mD-2q; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:08:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mf/PLgW8LaSyACTm3KXNhxlfYw+QkCz7OaBXlTAbYo0=; b=PBinytdVlIvV GlYvEeVn8WbQll2D/H3wv7XttV2nY7fI2aaT/CZk/7bVrJ7H2/zbIzzYTDlrUZZbQiDu/jloY7ypT CXry7Nr28xgnY+xnKLeeanwWPYrfaQ0Ae+IfGXhV1DCcnzlUnnE4lVfB8tWdeWjz4aWYhEkGuJ6nG f/0WG5ZlJzIiQ+qTQ0tKS+b9RDf+X2+keDXfcEOxWLK6MweY9zSgdjlBNVYZO2CyLavkmWrhuHsei +NfQ+AkkjTzgeRoyh735uQDKLCpSjXvENwmPQjgYL4dAGTqp/hV6Q31zLVaQ0nPWABRdrJvu71egs qHYOIXRwK5fXAXSi10qsRQ==; Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:08:35 +0200 Message-Id: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Nikolay Kudryavtsev on Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:37:25 +0300) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 23:37:25 +0300 > > Hello. > > Ever since 29.1 there's been a regression in user prompts when closing > Emacs with multiple modified buffers. Now user only gets 3 options: > > - Close without saving > > - Save all > > - Cancel > > In 28.2 and earlier, for every buffer, the user would get the prompt > asking to save the file and the following options: > > -Yes(save the file) > > -No(don't) > > -View This Buffer > > -View This Buffer And Quit > > -View Changes in This Buffer > > -Save This Buffer But No More > > -Save All Buffers > > -No For All I can only reproduce this when exiting Emacs via the menu-bar, by clicking File->Quit. If I exit Emacs with "C-x C-c", I see in Emacs 29 the same options as in Emacs 28. > I would argue that, while the old dialog may have been over-complicated > in terms of user options, the new dialog is useless. The only two > options available are the ones that a reasonable user would never use. I disagree, FWIW. I think they are the 2 most important options. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.17063664517265 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 14:40:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53703 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTjrX-0001t7-IK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 09:40:51 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::231]:52283) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTjrU-0001sp-6l for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 09:40:50 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cf4bc44ce1so15071181fa.0 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:40:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706366434; x=1706971234; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=B9xsWBvErIxuUQ58d66vgpQ8LNENvrAGBoZOcUaEMM4=; b=hmT+iIwYQ03A7HZ6iaJSn1aQvSaH8TUOIMepMNKkUeCW31UoR4ECst0uUa/S/iPQ5R 0zGTXBApyNsAllvZpdpTB1nHOc/CebqDpLVSmMedPU3isvekNfmH5b7ncUKTyAU0ZENe kd1JUF8G6tHehKiJbinngvRdMdp1pSC+ymPQVWM7ZCqUL783bIYDfVFDZO5udkoI/IR7 AQbUuPPJAmfjUhnZuRsFvCveNTHSopiGnSvT5V9/jjBGqpNPXcsUTAjX970KuzAz26i5 EOHVMX8QkEJxJQ4MUsyirrcFQCplWdP/ozhWNqj8qB8v2+vnijuaE80xM7XjhBJn1mF7 3NKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706366434; x=1706971234; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=B9xsWBvErIxuUQ58d66vgpQ8LNENvrAGBoZOcUaEMM4=; b=K39FSStg3CJN0SIu+Lkj9CEuEWFgy8qXIzMwPyH3HGGFEra4VAbLVxRNMJHbSvwjpl k9UZPZk1p+iSS3RowWwJhMPjgcEMh0Enxy4bEORZe1zuVlG1nABIBr+0jf8jyK+A98iO tjba5oXe+ue5C7G4hFIH0WSigQ93UVKnd0TsMmuQkI/BSx2OwL1xLC5WLbdPk+kvOytB vfdNL/mlYmiDYA2Y7rn76TE941NKAHsq9CyIBAepHa27gInZ4BkWJUzcXutX1UolOUMb zkI/frAHDYbUVoBhwUvJRsH3mZncDB2ZgPbgmRtesf07hITtPGhbMf5G2SalteufHHr7 wMrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzXXnOcxjg5uKcEaWwPN1lKRFM64OOyLWKlSvUfyUCJQN91sduB s5enwAw5Y/kBtdBwxwsNZSB5TH4MXd9PmMHfH9o016ns2Si9Ssz2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEeTGiSAqyd6y6sev3+TA5BH/tl6bF3o1ydc+djYtTyhcIXbcN4igUmrx8KRf4ywolbT0NIIQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8e73:0:b0:2cd:9503:f91 with SMTP id t19-20020a2e8e73000000b002cd95030f91mr966169ljk.15.1706366434274; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a? ([2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n18-20020a2e8792000000b002cf53923620sm242373lji.116.2024.01.27.06.40.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 06:40:33 -0800 (PST) From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Message-ID: <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:40:32 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: ru, en-US In-Reply-To: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Ha, that's funny. I'm so set in my habit of quitting the gui Emacs by pressing the close button, that I had no idea that C-x C-c does anything different there. So the big question here is this: what's going to be the dev team's decision on the idea of getting rid of the pop up dialog entirely and replacing it with C-x C-c(save-some-buffers) minibuffer prompt? Provided some work is done to it, to make it more (new) user friendly. Of course some care should also be taken to keep all the advanced functionality too. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.17063672929091 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 14:54:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53729 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTk56-0002MY-5p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 09:54:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTk53-0002MM-RD for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 09:54:50 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTk4r-00052O-DW; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 09:54:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=24I8Bwfc3UYmwotDZZi/7U9T0H/6Veko9n6bYNnYrJw=; b=Z0I6mcWTjm/8 Wg1wG4l+BllXDuKVKIq69q/fivZv885ujz9LHzw1UsRZS8pjgaO8kz3BvjO2ZTCXca9qpu1Ybpcjn G7T78Q1MjggLHJ5BDJn037M3aELmEH3NOYiNIWA9H8ZOTb+jTW4+xsEt0IlndwC488spc6R+lwQDe VVPkMNx87QPa0F3h/fSytqxBcHEOywFraMxMXuFAooqoeoUgyEkHF97t98Ak1DLjJeSYb8b0zUeLt q102KBDtI22Dj5ryBlf1xn0gYzJs0HClq3GnH0bLnt1f09vtHgHCifcKB+DxmNGOtBXq1Oeav314v fyBAyyd4EnNORNUa7grARg==; Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:54:35 +0200 Message-Id: <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> (message from Nikolay Kudryavtsev on Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:40:32 +0300) References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:40:32 +0300 > Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org > > So the big question here is this: what's going to be the dev team's > decision on the idea of getting rid of the pop up dialog entirely and > replacing it with C-x C-c(save-some-buffers) minibuffer prompt? You can have it already in your customizations: set use-dialog-box to nil. Getting rid of dialog boxes entirely is out of the question, since Emacs always prompts with a dialog box when some command was invoked from the menu bar by clicking the mouse. This is very old behavior, and we cannot change it, not even for a single command. Sorry. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170636891213672 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 15:21:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTkVE-0003YS-Do for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:21:52 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]:50276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTkVC-0003Y7-KY for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:21:51 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-51028fadfe2so1381921e87.0 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 07:21:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706368897; x=1706973697; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zQ1j80BOb4+iPhYgRkMvVGo/0VtMeKnOUCeef7FRn58=; b=LMIDeJ4iZKqcGRrAjnDpWD6YJv6r2cnA7bF9Duj5hMt/UtOnr0IZAl6UybCOkiD+K2 17edesmpgoo5/jZGR3NhOyXwwedbXg4D+S1IdXVFamra4ia4+vqSBD7RLK6kyNwJznUy VjkXLg9YN9Jmnuk26Hy87vFiT/8deQy0g1zPU/eqOgJxbogtq9Ym6Aoh0CGiDRTvr9pE 6nbc44uYBbeDTwtLFzzhptkj30V5rhyop1aNQoV0XkBlU+QJzV9sSQPtwVa7jYjKAIRG I7BJw3nEnRMZT3H2WA7iSRc7+tsBBUSD8WVE1hZSo4WRGPgjiRb+6Rf+tWnscA7qYq1n WqBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706368897; x=1706973697; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zQ1j80BOb4+iPhYgRkMvVGo/0VtMeKnOUCeef7FRn58=; b=QcnEU88cGmzPc5p8jDWDVVHbvA8LOtOBRx156/WqVJ4xcWoLx6kyPn6Az43K87da/y Cg7Yvx8SywjEbIkIH/bf1uwR/d3WYeziDwoCATnKvrdz57BvFXKKohkTTNNBim+oYCej dszlP+eMlCu73l5SrPfBas/h9QIOUyc6jPdWqe26waCM8gWzD5x90xuUvMVNGYexN+QK uUbNmEqOj07JvLtf124KCpRhXB8rQkXzULy2up7Ic8nDjKOOBQHFlJQnzkqRVL++w/Cb tsez364IJQmk+seOPzFGnicgHaGuBpMzcEOoSEoHMOF1MUrcSJb2pGuXkHiviINUOZ+v /ddA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwBJAThw5xrhB/iaJZNwnPVttRyUxC4YmJpzpFkZtiOxAQnIDFk VfiHbMZy/VaAvzwIWhwvFeD8YlhoHnjh3S+DPlNfv2+hVMMeW4zWvLHdV117 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHzVef6NPknnHTPapVypO4DPWoczvah6wnUa36/1Nb1RgdZVU6VlvRYsHNYVguD075W7Z9JQg== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5b03:0:b0:50e:4e6c:ea8f with SMTP id v3-20020ac25b03000000b0050e4e6cea8fmr1319244lfn.41.1706368897293; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 07:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a? ([2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u26-20020ac2519a000000b0050ed3dc2654sm514445lfi.36.2024.01.27.07.21.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 07:21:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Message-ID: <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:21:35 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: ru, en-US References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Right, makes sense. What about improving the current dialog, restoring at least some of the pre-29 behavior? Maybe add some option that allows jumping into the save-some-buffers buffers prompt. P.S. Thanks for the use-dialog-box tip. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev , Stefan Kangas Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170636986215277 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 15:37:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55734 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTkkY-0003yL-6L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:37:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43480) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTkkX-0003y8-6U for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:37:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTkkK-0003tK-No; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:37:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ybui8Fk/C1QXPZpnFqXVTcUgdHIfR1+7Kqp3V2mlpHM=; b=RC0d9TTXkLwL d/P4sS0tCLZktNmaVyrvPVcI72h9F/Qrh4QESoAhHOz4nljo0ArboKCmRSQ792oQZDngJAbkEhFgB gMeLXg4FHkIDqTuutMrt/5G/XXRBAnuX3PlQyM+TzWOMN10Wugespm9dONDNMAcod2isZ2xuny6an n/1ciB0Osgml2MblDUr8WNVspI+86vS9LHkGTOCeDVKXiJQcJBizBQ5ZFoBIGNLmoXTujVyq42Dyf GU4QvqcTBdpL7EiUQtAv3Vo1Gck6Y1wEMaEzDMMpXFRO02PaVuKZWwdHDkbTK+sTxRsd5pTnBHajL KVGbalBDl+Dvl3LoX9MvrQ==; Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:37:26 +0200 Message-Id: <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> (message from Nikolay Kudryavtsev on Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:21:35 +0300) References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:21:35 +0300 > Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org > > Right, makes sense. > > What about improving the current dialog, restoring at least some of the > pre-29 behavior? > > Maybe add some option that allows jumping into the save-some-buffers > buffers prompt. I'd prefer to hear more opinions. The change which you dislike was done on purpose, so I'm reluctant to revert it unless enough people agree with you. Stefan, WDYT? From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 21:19:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Nikolay Kudryavtsev Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170639031021408 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 21:19:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 21:18:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTq4I-0005Z9-C1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:18:30 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::433]:61461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTq4D-0005Yt-Fw for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 16:18:25 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-33922b66bd7so961242f8f.2 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:18:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706390288; x=1706995088; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QkCyayAhmecKcyRSv5unldDqO5G4icc2JsUIVg/LhyY=; b=csO7/c0DOpWeQvGZ4WOzCt6rJSUS18ur3xinsJ3YWyuQcQlZooYqRYRaHMLEec4xif Jmn8xPX2zASRcMwfF3hmsS+FcWpTn3iws9wFCzhauacLgpCcYk0nOkRV83QcGyw8D6of Y2vep0KJn2KAnYi1X72scpddvvfOAaxEjd8OjQ+BLylCn3W+pt83qzZKEZ/Pw8zVTx7H oiVP1QhlrtMQzuH5OlmSY3Z+shqPBq5DG5lw7Cz2OMb6+G6XbsNh+uxzqftUleVMIqPJ XnwGDwoDeQjcw3E0mnZSZzcnLadzjL29KVlsNQUqMY2FJprB7wPMNdDsTPnxNza5emP1 1CYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706390288; x=1706995088; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QkCyayAhmecKcyRSv5unldDqO5G4icc2JsUIVg/LhyY=; b=GmN3v6enVFl9ArYzXn8bfi7AAbTe+yQ7e6Pk79F5iMgvYqtkXz7qSC8YMiFWZgPA53 MOpyYbwFi15SU+NV6l/N41Rk4o2st+NvZTsPKezjXLZ2YmpL5935z8Uk8YXf4z3maqd2 D4SYxJpcn7n7TZHyvaXk9gKVAQMFteO2YI3wybCVJ49smdFSA2nyzJTNd8laiLt63pep 2Jcyj2oJsYh2sCmXZlM9OgcYDjqmhO9ULTqurGl/XVyXO9z5yfGM44HMM4zp9Kw5Wuuo yqy34iLkoZfj/owGGYRrINVEauq604LQ41kNX8J5eiQVyrHbjVCeL7osuzBP6gh7Ab/O 59Tg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzpGh9AasL4QltkIL9DqabkogatI3qJQzYNDehs/0ghxvihQerE Kk6LcQEyWcWEbPmQSRBwd6Vl55XSQl/5Q3X8ygRnxbXgxIU0VGfdN6lgX9DD0AdyDYcOByC0qrO VouEHhlr04jbPYIdtqEmTG1U8MHc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFGc5cFxd0H1v+qcoQd3piobbHi95MWxuIthzLA7t9dAhYGwhq2s8U3b5s3oPvZhvs5BogmL3t3+zKj8sbbj+Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1e89:b0:33a:e467:9d1c with SMTP id dd9-20020a0560001e8900b0033ae4679d1cmr1287703wrb.16.1706390287920; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:18:07 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:18:07 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev >> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:21:35 +0300 >> Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Right, makes sense. >> >> What about improving the current dialog, restoring at least some of the >> pre-29 behavior? >> >> Maybe add some option that allows jumping into the save-some-buffers >> buffers prompt. > > I'd prefer to hear more opinions. The change which you dislike was > done on purpose, so I'm reluctant to revert it unless enough people > agree with you. > > Stefan, WDYT? I'd rather not go back on that change, indeed. It was done not only on purpose, but after a discussion where all involved welcomed the change: https://debbugs.gnu.org/4980 I think this is a wontfix at this point. Sorry, Nikolay. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 22:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170639515730342 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 22:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 22:39:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56099 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTrKW-0007tJ-Q6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:39:17 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]:53577) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTrKR-0007sw-KJ for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 17:39:15 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50e5a9bcec9so1550954e87.3 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:39:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706395138; x=1706999938; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6lgR6b5vMz8lfFfzmJUW+9QkuLz1PBk4DOLb7zl+LnY=; b=VMkUx94eUGNBvMqkPDfOhGF7b7IgjasEJ/6voXNUWAiNhxoKttT/ZD2r8h8+8aj7Of DYSKNHN0rrVd+/4AD10xIhIqrpSdUIQ+/DZPtXlbG1UzttWdGBKqAurJK/u8S7m4CDZ3 NpOIAzaYkaN2fLPPURkXD/6ac6ZGMEajVkk6aaSdyFL8cNxyOGigzi9u4X8K5h8hYL2H MxBacsGTf3+5nffw7qaIuJiar+Noz/rw2hpAqv/w0qoUMlSyYi8B4G1yyzAWB/2CPoEe ervkgwIaVGFT57n2RWLtIT3yfUfbqBqJwghcFkYPHJBmbtDnOmCV1EaqesDo9fmlnqA4 IvdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706395138; x=1706999938; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6lgR6b5vMz8lfFfzmJUW+9QkuLz1PBk4DOLb7zl+LnY=; b=CqXiiypUslxA+e5zGHOX/4iRnJJCNdGOFpRCpihuo1nyGyNcJSZ4IZpAfbKFZuZCV8 eE1I9SLybn2fJIuABELSOITjHYDj1CajFXd/D9H7Zpm10u62alscuK9KcT0mkJIym9Ee t3uSyP+wkwshL6CDo9lYreZw2cV0OYkb2DWVBtuaVkeGV8cLrdGzFxuEMApTbvpYKtkL SeUoas2djhqVLpYv2mS++j2IVJIuxHlisH89btM9nF2U3mcVjzBcpWJwDeOyLxU/DOjq +hQgD9lzz7MTfLsv/O9t5jdbo0jMzWiLCGi0joJTBhHYyRGtPsx61XnBr64EG/hHl2aX Hd6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwGFejdqOIKCU7IYA5hyDiFbxGrzNm1jpo2hmvjmbNYU4jSFZs6 gtLcFqBRoaf5VLWqo3gq1crydiLQ0dWFlRk/sCl1LSulvhIfiRfq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH5GfikS/utDBZjxSPyjAfj8ASRyDVdH3kt1KIP4OF6MPS0cbWF6lFS+gSJ5tfOmXHbHwSMyA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1191:b0:511:b41:7bcc with SMTP id g17-20020a056512119100b005110b417bccmr75413lfr.32.1706395137981; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a? ([2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:1de2:3417:3933:458a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h25-20020a19ca59000000b00510faaa62cfsm140342lfj.222.2024.01.27.14.38.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 14:38:57 -0800 (PST) From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Message-ID: <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 01:38:56 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: ru, en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) That's very unfortunate. I'll summarize the arguments for changing this dialog for the future, because I have a hunch that this would eventually be changed: From the point of view of a power user this is bad because power users generally have Emacs running for day-weeks-months at a time and they generally need to know whether the change they've made to some buffer days ago is meaningful or a typo. The new behavior requires them to set use-dialog-box nil or remember about the C-x C-c behavior being different. All for a basic thing that ideally should not take any mental space. From the point of view of a new user this is bad because now the user is stuck searching for those modified buffers by hand since Emacs have not given him any guidance. Quitting and saving is such a basic operation(cue two pages of vim jokes) that at this point we should not only not expect the user to know about M-x save-some-buffers, but even what the buffer modified mode line flag looks like. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.17063982923839 (code B ref 68663); Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:32:01 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2024 23:31:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs96-0000zr-50 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:32 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]:49595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTs91-0000zb-PX for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 18:31:31 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55d4013f3e0so1211372a12.3 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706398274; x=1707003074; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HENBl9kJtbAy7Td/c1qCY1q+R0muQz8qw4mkZkNi0F8=; b=ae/SN+cxT1cKsFJUldC/+EDtecedbK7eECJUsvFeFY9CHU6Fx3P8v7h6vKjfknuiNG dTkiFPAljk7ufvmV1TO9ZbbNfDgqNOkD1ZC1DW5sRU75b1yivjocst5e+h1Qjxf4vgkd /PNJc/sBf0H9Om/v4FWayPRUGYIXt+JWu2sfYL+6IkQzSjkXT4hJTf6cMAu78IQgc9lf GiYG+82mXQVkJ8W3hHm/vqjlPdlPIqFUshIBZBwV90sfr0L34jgUaw9YyD0TsJHpuZEA ofe61z02+yJNtsAVUf2m3oIuj9yf8WHShm24KwdsakhAG5rretMBzuDuE1O++QXcCAPm F9rw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706398274; x=1707003074; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HENBl9kJtbAy7Td/c1qCY1q+R0muQz8qw4mkZkNi0F8=; b=islvwoXFHS62mIfbpeJQ4eZer5teiUvEzfXfuCfwdoKTgxjPnlFy2DR8YoI/R89W9M jkrRcGtARDO4Nuh5UUmAFI+oU2lva1eD8OtJoJ4z3ipbM9IaKkoGWctLVCkwYrSzqG9y FPdb2/aJ7p8woiN1MA8jFP6AU30Io9xGSS0WsV5trJxKD18u3pxAfx5plyWEdYA4OjPR V0C9mE9zehDRCy6qb+gnchjaqiQtivQYBu5UPTBUrNeLg03AL+OZhx0zoAlutP9X97x7 Bpm9cAK1qtksnOid+vFEe83yjp0mYXHyhbhd1FpLzwB6ADOR3A7uu+Qa19otyH+GZBep JajQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwkegedM4gqK2TQ3u6zDCmirk+Md+83EubXrRZMC8MYcUK2qteu TXzQO9y5vdPiTvYZ0d0gZQGItVQj/DKClFC33hDK0266DjShpHSKKr69jmTPGfJrHeSjm5aMKq4 9NslijsjfgLwu4eCTe5JRcwz2unQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEroscl2BYBhRmISrMlbFdTDGp05e2CUCo76M95KREXUG5ckIUFskxO/edub4sgPcddDVjIZ1IxwNMRtM/qJgI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:520a:b0:55d:2ac1:b381 with SMTP id s10-20020a056402520a00b0055d2ac1b381mr1852774edd.27.1706398274459; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 15:31:14 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Nikolay Kudryavtsev writes: > That's very unfortunate. > > I'll summarize the arguments for changing this dialog for the future, > because I have a hunch that this would eventually be changed: > > From the point of view of a power user this is bad because power users > generally have Emacs running for day-weeks-months at a time and they > generally need to know whether the change they've made to some buffer > days ago is meaningful or a typo. The new behavior requires them to set > use-dialog-box nil or remember about the C-x C-c behavior being > different. All for a basic thing that ideally should not take any mental > space. Thanks. I think the old dialog was a complete mess myself, as did others, so I think simply reverting to it is the a no-go. However, we might be more amenable to a well-thought out proposal for what an improved dialogue might look like in 2024. I'm not saying that we would accept it, but I'm not prepared to close any doors either. The fact that we recently changed it means that it would have to be a solid proposal for us to accept it, though. Mere tweaks to get some old favorite feature back are not likely to fly. Good arguments here might include: - "I have looked at how VSCode does this, a project with significant resources to pour into things like dedicated UX experts, and here is what they do. We might want to do something similar, because ..." > From the point of view of a new user this is bad because now the user > is stuck searching for those modified buffers by hand since Emacs have > not given him any guidance. Quitting and saving is such a basic > operation(cue two pages of vim jokes) that at this point we should not > only not expect the user to know about M-x save-some-buffers, but even > what the buffer modified mode line flag looks like. I didn't check, but it sounds like this might point to a real problem. Could you please describe in more detail the workflow that you have in mind? What is the exact situation when you see the problem, and why? Bonus points for coming up with other ideas to improve the situation than reverting or a complete redesign. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 05:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170642130412081 (code B ref 68663); Sun, 28 Jan 2024 05:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2024 05:55:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56291 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTy8G-00038m-2g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 00:55:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTy8F-00038H-6L for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 00:55:03 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTy82-0007Ow-9X; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 00:54:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=8UZ8TuFzyPts4KG46YAAmMbhNmEclLDEerclXIrXgIc=; b=iP7/l9cBoNvl fxNc/3yc8Hbxgk4oX3uWUjTDbraKd2KMx26KR4DmEkTxATmqyETWLNBpn+qpIFqKFAnpKKX+HhWu/ 6wGcgMygjMFYR/4/c3v8qRXsUuKpLSZeymhj34Attv54jp33LZJpQ2PGElzD8REPlc849ZUoRqEDX 5atNDCxdeqLHvov5LUpqevXgVfK8qC9b2WqjDVYIonS+7Obprmn5BW6T6l/8IvXRTzood1urq9+oc eP4Zx1UqPP5pG+TOnkRLc5bFSYCwXd/jT5lpJkU0n3vxLSiqB9hvvScOMMXMNSUU4GOHyQF+7gWlW 5ioVSp8NvjhRXbj8v5KBiQ==; Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 07:54:49 +0200 Message-Id: <86bk966lzq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> (message from Nikolay Kudryavtsev on Sun, 28 Jan 2024 01:38:56 +0300) References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 01:38:56 +0300 > Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org > > From the point of view of a new user this is bad because now the user > is stuck searching for those modified buffers by hand since Emacs have > not given him any guidance. Showing the modified buffers is easy: use "C-x C-b", and you will see a clear indication which buffer is modified. From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:34:24 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68663: Unsaved buffers dialog is unhelpful Resent-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 17:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68663 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 68663@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68663-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68663.170646251012622 (code B ref 68663); Sun, 28 Jan 2024 17:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 68663) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2024 17:21:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rU8qs-0003HV-5L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 12:21:50 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::231]:54742) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rU8qp-0003HI-Ro for 68663@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 12:21:48 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cf42ca9bb2so23663101fa.1 for <68663@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 09:21:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706462494; x=1707067294; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+ZlUd860rnx5yNUGiyVY/PJtfODk2fAo3VWI/TbmP4Y=; b=ZzasfwVuuQEiWesmVolyBhfDpquYYkGgc87TA4n6GMM2H9ZgvAe2vjZ+SsO1oTVj90 RPie7qiUJHKX8FeIRNhiBxCyn+Og93GYsFRdrBgRY+GFpC//+RsQ5Tv6dcqG3bc62vZV eT5wjDEaNflzMaMRQOvM9clxiv4l+pXsl/uDm5qemvMJBoYzI0YKVItswyMBYw8FAL5n nf7U6UNiVWAg+X0sNLqqVFonTp7lc1dJsFieUybwuExG2RcWeVKpPPjenx+uTRvczo3O csq56rFgo1AZs4J5q+VYkrZWjblPHEr/eZSzYk4Pd6vOrNnDVzLDML2nB2FR6BypYvhP sC3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706462494; x=1707067294; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+ZlUd860rnx5yNUGiyVY/PJtfODk2fAo3VWI/TbmP4Y=; b=o/yvCYVKOpeHlS2KmSoWIuajj3xFeUWLHyDQOX4HTMOn4ViUYsAv6w1h+scRDpndl0 Ds3ka6aNUaU9bKPU2AR0Sjmnho4nu8IHYpNY0RxYbSdj4dY5kR8H4yT//3FDm7Wgb6ud nCnRCs/5+wrfnmQNcIUfqmWdRfzDB5lfox6q9InunTJKUKsqAb2paGPYMo1p10CqdMKV j9kTxxUTL4S3OxbgOccJmTcvAyaUpx7D8C58BiCccXe0CnrvCIlSUpIeeKdM3hmXjg+6 KV3P+sYmdM6HKnXUv7zX3baQ/SqHmDo3BWVt3EDgrty9+V2yPaYl1jnAfOckDIxBMQfp s0hg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw8XrJWDJzkPsWrt6lt2Y08xt6JtcGYh5oSoh3b3JEJ0o95oIsO X05vCs7tiw+Z9JiCoMRguw1a/8MEGtUxcrrkE8ZJp8kDMUkZJi/+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHRGTkc3WbeCpVFdq3BUomnx3ir3Bhg15memu4qrE9MOwv4y0hJ6vB4nMwuWbCtyl6NBegnaA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:97d1:0:b0:2cc:9435:a5f8 with SMTP id m17-20020a2e97d1000000b002cc9435a5f8mr2183708ljj.6.1706462493735; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 09:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:7b17:ef39:815:1d38? ([2a02:2168:b3fc:9700:7b17:ef39:815:1d38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q5-20020a2e2a05000000b002cf1fd75e88sm853949ljq.14.2024.01.28.09.21.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Jan 2024 09:21:33 -0800 (PST) From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 20:21:31 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird References: <86ede3824s.fsf@gnu.org> <6593db7e-a065-4d07-89e8-775f7e8cd90e@gmail.com> <86v87e7ro4.fsf@gnu.org> <03c24873-b7d6-4fe5-8fff-5e71882271d5@gmail.com> <86r0i27pop.fsf@gnu.org> <81ca484b-c26b-4798-9a75-4ac5b1c54eab@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) In terms of detailed change proposals, my experience tells me that it's usually best to test the waters first, see whether there are things that I haven't considered initially(there were) and what are the acceptable options, both technically and culturally. > I didn't check, but it sounds like this might point to a real problem. > Could you please describe in more detail the workflow that you have in > mind? What is the exact situation when you see the problem, and why? In this use case we're talking about a very new user. Lets say this is your first time(day) of using Emacs. You don't know about M-x save-some-buffers, you're not going to quit with C-x C-c, you don't know about C-x C-b, you don't know what the * on the modeline is, you don't even know what a modeline is. But before 29 you could still quit Emacs and have a decent level of protection from making any unwanted edits. I think it's pretty natural for users to often restart any less than familiar application when they're thinking that they're doing something harmful. So that's two of the use cases. I've also re-read the previous discussions on this topic, to try and present the main use case that is benefited by the previous change. I think the only people who are ONLY doing save all or save none are the people who are working on projects with limited scopes in a very controlled environment - e.g. the user is usually only making edits within a single VC repository(project) and thus every time he quits he does not particularly care about the unsaved buffers either way, because were the changes in them valuable in any way he'd already have committed them. For this use case any extra notification is just an annoyance for the user. Maybe to further accommodate such users, there should be an easy option to disable any unsaved buffers dialog outright. Now that we have the use case established, lets also honestly question what was so bad about the previous behavior, when we're only looking to accommodate this single use case? The same 2 buttons were available before, just as they are available now. It was just that there were other visually(logically and mentally) distracting other options. Which to me does not seem like a problem worthy of sacrificing the other use cases to, but obviously YMMV. Also I think something should be said about this being an instant versus vs an incremental operation. Where stuff like a combined diff as suggested by Dmitry or the act-able modified buffer list as originally suggested by the reporter in #4980 would have some tangible advantages in convenience, especially the more straightforward your usage is. The act-able buffer list seems like a perfect solution here convenience-wise, but the way I understand it, it's not feasible technically. As for taking inspiration from other editors, I just had a quick look at 5 other editors\IDEs I had on hand and basically all the IDEs present very much the same act-able buffer list. The smaller editors generally prefer to avoid asking user anything, avoid saving anything and then just restoring the changes on restart. Which is another perfectly fine solution that's a no-go for us here. Though it may be worth considering as an eventual option, because it seems like a perfect fit for the limited scope editing use-case described above.