From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:52:39 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#6866 <6866@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#6866 <6866@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 Reply-To: bug#6866 <6866@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2025 09:52:39 +0000 retitle 6866 mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UT= F-8 reassign 6866 emacs submitter 6866 jidanni@jidanni.org severity 6866 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 08:02:43 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 12:02:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkyOp-0005If-8i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:02:43 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkyOn-0005Ia-Kg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:02:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:54319) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OkyPl-0001G7-24 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:03:41 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50001 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkyPf-0004HF-ED for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:03:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkyPX-0004C2-Sb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:03:35 -0400 Received: from caiajhbdcbhh.dreamhost.com ([208.97.132.177]:52726 helo=homiemail-a38.g.dreamhost.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkyPX-0004Br-Oi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:03:27 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a38.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a38.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84AD10AFA5 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:03:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; q=dns; s=jidanni.org ; b=T602jF52rA+3DuaKeWVnoaAsd3iJVjEYlPMjLHFGLF7EjRb5Uc1nhhUkNQfs 7zvTN/FTS/IpWS4mkoe73W6kLiDtVyjdS2Y+c07eZEw4vlXO16V9bES2YOM6nu28 Vu29wI5tNULgxE2nbb5fJmM6xczMyDnvzp2ahL+QPXVUJNQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= jidanni.org; bh=fIqQxE9Ogx7OsbENYgj2b0iCGng=; b=FzFJEgnonXIoEvhd /uGTUX216enFqVlNXyyN3LNFiKJmnCXLhNVMN7bMTILzFoy1+YTrt2AqfIGr/fl8 VBjsL6En3vH71TTV59Q4Kgalau4/iJTzaiejXFpryHpW7X0uOBrv+xjoYyPbEQK2 Y4vjoO+aEIt5tYEJq2FsHCM7h+4= Received: from jidanni.org (218-163-2-175.dynamic.hinet.net [218.163.2.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by homiemail-a38.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEB2210AFAB for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: jidanni@jidanni.org To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:09:48 +0800 Message-ID: <87iq3a3jb7.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.3 (-----) I demand an explanation. $ zgrep TW mule-cmds.el ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") You guys just *assume* that all TW people still use Big5. One can do LC_ALL=zh_TW.UTF-8 until he is blue in the face, but still current-language-environment is a variable defined in `mule-cmds.el'. Its value is "Chinese-BIG5" emacs-version "24.0.50.1" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 08:21:34 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 12:21:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Okyh4-0005Qv-1d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:21:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Okyh1-0005Qq-PN for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:21:32 -0400 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Okyhz-0008HT-2P; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:22:31 -0400 From: Eli Zaretskii To: jidanni@jidanni.org In-reply-to: <87iq3a3jb7.fsf@jidanni.org> Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <87iq3a3jb7.fsf@jidanni.org> Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:22:31 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) > From: jidanni@jidanni.org > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:09:48 +0800 > Cc: > > I demand an explanation. > $ zgrep TW mule-cmds.el > ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") > You guys just *assume* that all TW people still use Big5. That's because they do. Case closed. > One can do LC_ALL=zh_TW.UTF-8 until he is blue in the face How dare you??!!! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 08:23:12 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 12:23:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Okyie-0005Rp-9x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:23:12 -0400 Received: from mail-px0-f172.google.com ([209.85.212.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Okyic-0005Ri-VR for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:23:11 -0400 Received: by pxi6 with SMTP id 6so1840314pxi.3 for <6866@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:24:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q9J8bKQ/ybHXeMX9bg3R1KeJzHn3NmRFV9s9NB1f5aA=; b=X/91x/Whc1LCVPXVI9sfNcwFldCRCyN4enrOXDn5ZpMQuhU/p3G0rOoei+09tt4wVu wvbOvy/uBIhoJLrfIXl+cJR1vpflkdA9DqSon+JoRGr1AyUEnd4urw3jyjTy1PKv+uS0 RtFSbaQZ0YYCd2KY2U/qoFQIuUjmZ/JxE7V0k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dTvJGZGQkCwfUjweyU4bYk7I9/MnlH9ZZub97LDTOFzacZn5CX1JIF15I0loCBhrv3 QshrBq3GO3XWOfLaUUGEFlKrd0eiDYH1ai1WYdIVkvHcFYPsHP7SSPjjo39vbg41Mw3f Y1fIy8u6V0sd6TwW9xBrOj7LeCwcO4Qp+NHjg= Received: by 10.114.109.14 with SMTP id h14mr6106982wac.4.1281961449538; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.249.101] ([202.87.221.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c24sm12092029wam.19.2010.08.16.05.24.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C692DDE.2010608@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:23:58 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jidanni@jidanni.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <87iq3a3jb7.fsf@jidanni.org> In-Reply-To: <87iq3a3jb7.fsf@jidanni.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 16/8/2010 7:09 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote: > I demand an explanation. > $ zgrep TW mule-cmds.el > ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") > You guys just *assume* that all TW people still use Big5. > One can do LC_ALL=zh_TW.UTF-8 until he is blue in the face, but still > current-language-environment is a variable defined in `mule-cmds.el'. > Its value is "Chinese-BIG5" > emacs-version "24.0.50.1" Please explain what bug you think this caused. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 08:57:50 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 12:57:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkzG9-0005h6-ET for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:57:49 -0400 Received: from caiajhbdcahe.dreamhost.com ([208.97.132.74] helo=homiemail-a4.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkzG7-0005h1-Pd for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:57:48 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a4.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a4.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE97E51C073; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:58:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc:subject :references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; q=dns; s= jidanni.org; b=HRh9k7JLJk+k6hkBxoHl3N11e71LNItrCE+XJKFD+w5F6igFl JA3v7jWJc5Zb+zIYWaaHN5uJ8ejlxqbGrdaE0GXXtYskr36OJRLiFnTTGfzaj42S C1a7Zl9Xa4IRLWL0a05RPZkw6Qu+oDdDp9wNpMYQOTNtcH9fhwMg8tOE7M= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=AmO1Ug4FjxM4QyYeyHFvQrfhbrY=; b=paPzkMyvRc6eV nalNbKgY0Zcx8/7DdcroZmvtaj31XciieqIrx04/eXx15p5nTo7psvU+Na0Q5jxW KXLD2SWeMA5R0wEfAh1oCnQ/hz6nBZcxWII3zsZAdUVSdHDw9vdZmmlblR3QH9rx oUep6MyXWMnJQuPgk75j9CrnVZ1Q9E= Received: from jidanni.org (218-163-2-175.dynamic.hinet.net [218.163.2.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by homiemail-a4.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D92751C070; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: jidanni@jidanni.org To: jasonr@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <4C692DDE.2010608@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:58:43 +0800 Message-ID: <87k4nqn27w.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>>>> "JR" == Jason Rumney writes: JR> Please explain what bug you think this caused. http://news.gmane.org/group/gmane.emacs.w3m/thread=8661 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 09:16:51 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 13:16:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkzYZ-0005pl-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:16:51 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com ([209.85.210.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkzYY-0005pf-8T for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:16:50 -0400 Received: by pzk6 with SMTP id 6so1861109pzk.3 for <6866@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:17:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PiDQ2GW1JkrIXKN6VpS7JViPzN+CJdQ+om3tLzsNGC4=; b=IgehklpwRoDmsO1Xb9NIsTZI6HsOuXKpUS69ti6he3SZJ9Jxc0wlq7yKtUuFmJM6ZQ OJTBsH3SWBSs7V+0OcHu5o1M/qC307KcmhvGq5VOBaFMiKMciemuH45DyA3cfz9V9U8P SkJGnjP2gdCxcBnTCATqALex3LUHyeS+ioQ/U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dW/A8ix+xSidZJ1gWOwt+/PXPJ4Fm3YjIKmi+pWp4Udrb/Lnq80Y51JQrtZbU8aHIV mmylhWEsnW0kP2cbOo08yPtR/QoEWBk3zV5Wg+njBgykr8ZfZ75BANQtawKqhMjLcG42 AN5iJWp7a9y1HjPOvU07LB/1bs4Oj7CUAX+uU= Received: by 10.142.204.17 with SMTP id b17mr4504659wfg.142.1281964668989; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.249.101] ([202.87.221.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q27sm8309884wfc.18.2010.08.16.06.17.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C693A73.1060200@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:17:39 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jidanni@jidanni.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <4C692DDE.2010608@gnu.org> <87k4nqn27w.fsf@jidanni.org> In-Reply-To: <87k4nqn27w.fsf@jidanni.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 16/8/2010 8:58 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote: >>>>>> "JR" == Jason Rumney writes: > JR> Please explain what bug you think this caused. > http://news.gmane.org/group/gmane.emacs.w3m/thread=8661 It appears from that thread that there is a bug in w3m. It is not apparent that it is related to your report here though, as the expected behavior is that a Japanese search engine should only be chosen if the current-language matches "Japanese", which this clearly does not. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 09:38:17 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 13:38:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkztI-0005y8-Hl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:38:17 -0400 Received: from caiajhbdccah.dreamhost.com ([208.97.132.207] helo=homiemail-a6.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkztG-0005y3-Fr for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:38:15 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a6.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a6.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1FC598074; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:39:13 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc:subject :references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; q=dns; s= jidanni.org; b=LRE4zp5eHRorEGe0L/mCfID3pMJwoqoecs0o/UTrDa+E7+zzn maYHkolM6uqCsdgkogJkYGlj/3WKyWLnta4vnWm1jd9GmietacGdcWqTxwOuCSu+ Fax/HVfDM5nP1iS5tzOIfR9XaBNgWe47c/Fg4bw82zPybGNZvrTJFKSMDU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=XW2VFhMBq5bLMNtkKfB2qCZi2eE=; b=IEghTnC5bDiAQ Gy9peA9vFD3AwT6rDytQoXwLzLwykIdqWat4F1qqBkkHOA8tUHAyC1IyibA8l8JU kBryWzGYNhiXvZ85vFvd3zDPy6G4yLdhYrMsilfDQtXdL1+kW5+C88FRephTL4S5 Eco79K42MUvQFGVqpBgPVQFSYtf8mE= Received: from jidanni.org (218-163-2-175.dynamic.hinet.net [218.163.2.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by homiemail-a6.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1096C598070; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: jidanni@jidanni.org To: jasonr@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <4C693A73.1060200@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:39:10 +0800 Message-ID: <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Well anyway, for our locale me and my friends all use zh_TW.UTF-8 and stopped using zh_TW.big5 years ago. So at least it looks very dumb there in mule-cmds.el that the zh_CN people can use UTF-8, but the HK and TW are locked in the dark ages: ("zh_HK" . "Chinese-Big5") ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") ("zh_CN.UTF-8" . "Chinese-GBK") ("zh_CN" . "Chinese-GB") The only big5 thing I apparently sometimes still use is $ GET http://jidanni.org/comp/configuration/.emacs | grep -i b5 (setq default-input-method 'chinese-py-punct-b5))));no 'utf' ones From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 10:07:06 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 14:07:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol0LC-0007Vz-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:07:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com ([209.85.210.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol0LA-0007V5-5I for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:07:04 -0400 Received: by pzk6 with SMTP id 6so1877508pzk.3 for <6866@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:08:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZmDljHxdtxkizgpzowdseekEA04+JPRixb1Nan84Eic=; b=JvWGCHe/JakUPXLTTUnVmX+A5wVRjePgxQ5LiEDQKmbCcE+u0dM/sEaK2kasL15/eb f4u2RBkqbhxXytPtx+/paLfhq9ex+thm9W4pkY024wNbrtjgAIKWagbihW4jF/1D75BN KoA8yIE9t9TWB5E5hxmD90Q5f3/P/cVUYgVuE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=BvAS0MBCNVE6sX2P7llWNjOIyJZJzQSRHZ2IKMfJCkDM2WqTng4rsrAMDwYPFytZNs strR67wu0SvlYRCCHlH/N9KYd3IOt0dVXTHofAKlYWgCObx049vdv7eigcKfXfwJiW97 lHDNbOV02J5z0oxrGT0bbdrgg0L3BBSN8rozE= Received: by 10.142.194.15 with SMTP id r15mr4606519wff.31.1281967682637; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.249.101] ([202.87.221.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm8367741wfa.22.2010.08.16.07.08.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C694638.6000006@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:07:52 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jidanni@jidanni.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <4C693A73.1060200@gnu.org> <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> In-Reply-To: <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 16/8/2010 9:39 PM, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote: > Well anyway, for our locale me and my friends all use zh_TW.UTF-8 and > stopped using zh_TW.big5 years ago. So at least it looks very dumb there > in mule-cmds.el that the zh_CN people can use UTF-8, but the HK and TW > are locked in the dark ages: > > ("zh_HK" . "Chinese-Big5") > ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") > ("zh_CN.UTF-8" . "Chinese-GBK") > ("zh_CN" . "Chinese-GB") GBK is a backwards compatible extension of GB with more characters. I'm not sure that Big5 has an equivalent. In all these cases, the character set is used to select preferences for fonts, input methods and other language sensitive things, and has nothing to do with UTF-8 (which is used as a preference for file encoding when specified). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 11:26:58 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 15:26:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1aU-0003qB-1Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:26:58 -0400 Received: from caiajhbdccah.dreamhost.com ([208.97.132.207] helo=homiemail-a1.g.dreamhost.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol1aS-0003q6-F4 for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 11:26:57 -0400 Received: from homiemail-a1.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a1.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD79F34806D; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:27:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc:subject :references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; q=dns; s= jidanni.org; b=O0Gj0sT6OkzzaxhsnzPHCXrEYMUaG294hrHBK34cYANr26Jra ha8kSJLDwphsoGiTcMBBTbCDTk8Wm7icrlXp4ENbMpQUMQdM4+ho046CZJDjIKFM Eq2RB8eKb27aMpdVKkny3xmUvbvo4SMUn3wkUi61TGZ+WZNpPR2Dt+EeHY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=cmhf+dn7HHmyhiPxU05dY1Zwi/o=; b=e62fUcdKtzCZ1 yE+qlC3hpqfaVE590yFxey/UHdgMiM4w/zvmvDOdUmPF7fgYHLautl3qVlAoocE4 3Gf9F9vMPI0kyHR4iHCkTN6fQOlWuV8dRq8ns6M1ohAlvGUqjAmYwNvQCwAeqCXI x1WqyA96ucflz6maFlrm+FhtvWpmmU= Received: from jidanni.org (218-163-2-175.dynamic.hinet.net [218.163.2.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by homiemail-a1.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4212334806B; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:27:55 -0700 (PDT) From: jidanni@jidanni.org To: jasonr@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 References: <4C694638.6000006@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:27:51 +0800 Message-ID: <87bp92mvbc.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>>>> "JR" == Jason Rumney writes: JR> In all these cases, the character set is used to select preferences JR> for fonts, input methods and other language sensitive things, and JR> has nothing to do with UTF-8 (which is used as a preference for file JR> encoding when specified). Then it is a sad choice of the name of a character set being used for other purposes. Many users will say: didn't I make a big effort years ago to totally convert my environment? Why do I still have traces of big5 hanging around? Perhaps there should be a more neutral name used. Since it seems what you are calling Chinese-Big5 does not have much to do with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese#Computer_encoding after all. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 12:26:02 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 16:26:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol2Vd-0004Fo-Ot for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:26:01 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22] helo=mail.gmx.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol2Vb-0004Fe-2l for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:26:00 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Aug 2010 16:26:57 -0000 Received: from d91-128-26-84.cust.tele2.at (EHLO localhost) [91.128.26.84] by mail.gmx.net (mp014) with SMTP; 16 Aug 2010 18:26:57 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54312696 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18YyaRNpFUYyW5reKtQJ2LdB0W9kFo1lzMg/V8W8A yoqOjpqTGtndP1 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:26:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20100816.182654.383069926.wl@gnu.org> To: jasonr@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 From: Werner LEMBERG In-Reply-To: <4C694638.6000006@gnu.org> References: <4C693A73.1060200@gnu.org> <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> <4C694638.6000006@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2.53 on Emacs 24.0.50.1 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > GBK is a backwards compatible extension of GB with more characters. > I'm not sure that Big5 has an equivalent. Such an extension exists; it is called Big5-plus. However, AFAIK, nobody has ever used it, and today it is obsolete since Unicode is much better. Werner From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 13:39:27 2010 Received: (at 6866-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 17:39:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol3eg-0004pl-8L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:39:26 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol3ed-0004pg-Uy for 6866-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:39:25 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L7900600ADDNU00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 6866-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:39:31 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.220.100]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L79003UEADURGY0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:39:31 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:37:30 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 In-reply-to: <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: jidanni@jidanni.org Message-id: <83fwyesbl1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C693A73.1060200@gnu.org> <87fwyen0ch.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866-done Cc: 6866-done@debbugs.gnu.org, jasonr@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: jidanni@jidanni.org > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:39:10 +0800 > Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org > > Well anyway, for our locale me and my friends all use zh_TW.UTF-8 and > stopped using zh_TW.big5 years ago. So at least it looks very dumb there > in mule-cmds.el that the zh_CN people can use UTF-8, but the HK and TW > are locked in the dark ages: > > ("zh_HK" . "Chinese-Big5") > ("zh_TW" . "Chinese-Big5") > ("zh_CN.UTF-8" . "Chinese-GBK") > ("zh_CN" . "Chinese-GB") Are you sure you understand what this data base is used for in Emacs? The function within mule-cmds.el which uses this data has this comment: ;; locale-language-names specify both lang-env and coding. ;; But, what specified in locale-preferred-coding-systems ;; has higher priority. Thus, if you specify UTF-8 as the preferred encoding (e.g., via LC_ALL), it overrules the Big5 default. > The only big5 thing I apparently sometimes still use is > $ GET http://jidanni.org/comp/configuration/.emacs | grep -i b5 > (setq default-input-method 'chinese-py-punct-b5))));no 'utf' ones You are confused: an input method can produce Big5 characters, but that won't prevent Emacs from encoding them in UTF-8 if that's your preference. I'm closing this bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 16 13:43:22 2010 Received: (at 6866) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2010 17:43:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol3iU-0004rz-0b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:43:22 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ol3iR-0004ru-Ao for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:43:20 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L7900400AJAAY00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 6866@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:43:45 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.220.100]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L790047IAKW1E90@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:43:45 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:44 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#6866: mule-cmds.el just _assumes_ all of Taiwan uses Big5 and not UTF-8 In-reply-to: <87bp92mvbc.fsf@jidanni.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: jidanni@jidanni.org Message-id: <83eidysbdz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C694638.6000006@gnu.org> <87bp92mvbc.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6866 Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org, jasonr@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: jidanni@jidanni.org > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:27:51 +0800 > Cc: 6866@debbugs.gnu.org > > Many users will say: didn't I make a big effort years ago to totally > convert my environment? Why do I still have traces of big5 hanging > around? Users should not look into the code unless they actually read it (as opposed to grep them with some random string) and understand what the code does. > Perhaps there should be a more neutral name used. Since it seems what > you are calling Chinese-Big5 does not have much to do with > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese#Computer_encoding > after all. It _is_ a name of an encoding, just the Emacs name. It just isn't used in the way you thought. From unknown Tue Aug 19 02:52:39 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator