From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: Carl Hansen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 04:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 68274@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-automake@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.170451384224371 (code B ref -1); Sat, 06 Jan 2024 04:05:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2024 04:04:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58260 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuk-0006Kz-EL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:04:02 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:58006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuf-0006KL-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:04:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuU-00085w-HN for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuU-0003d8-9E for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Subject:To:From:Date:in-reply-to: references; bh=Oh2IHfwzSRgT5RI8YndN3wo9QW60rWSxcuV1f9JcbXE=; b=NGN6BST/ZlCe9Y UbFeiCZ1orLUCaDRu0PDrDNhcVzqKJONW28wkZrQscTVl36NsFeW0SYS6MlWWBv1R1Djy1TvhMPbK w48AJGT1RgRcWKaEOjBlBwZQ/UbIc4H7Js4Dn81cMQBsYtXiI5CP15HHh4RiIIFAT2Q9FvlJ6Dg4d bO60UX3kRSw1sl93gTF4A5C7AdjpoSKMS3lk5HtaNK8KHgZPIKutWPP5J9aFTqQA0XmnjMb8TNg0w vq0LnTjx/uWsPBWNk9mbjnuDEN1qIVTjn+Q9V7pn7kE2PY9cPFaXpd80F6uTNNdgcdpwMGMdHWv9K fxFQm3+TzKYblrC0xb5g==; Received: from carlhansen by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuS-0006Og-HX for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:45 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 23:03:44 -0500 From: Carl Hansen Message-ID: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Building a package (happens to be "jami") , which runs a script it its build process that checks for automake expr: non-integer argument automake (GNU automake) 1.16j Fatal error: automake 1.7 or higher is required. Please set $AUTOMAKE to point to a newer automake, or upgrade. Problem is the script expects numerical version, thus gets confused. Next version, make it something like "automake 1.16.99999" or something. From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts References: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> Resent-From: Karl Berry Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: carlhansen@gnu.org Cc: 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.17045806352255 (code B ref 68274); Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:38:02 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2024 22:37:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rMFI2-0000aJ-Sh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 17:37:15 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:58272 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rMFI0-0000a6-J3 for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 17:37:12 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 406Mb5xp019894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:37:05 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 406Mb5mI019893; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:37:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:37:05 -0700 Message-Id: <202401062237.406Mb5mI019893@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry In-Reply-To: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Carl - sorry, you'll need to adjust your script. Automake and other packages have used letters for pretests for decades, and it's not plausible to change now. Also, I have the impression that other packages use random git hexids in their pretest releases, which aren't numeric either. -k From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: Mike Frysinger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Karl Berry Cc: carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.17051195939911 (code B ref 68274); Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 04:19:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOVUv-0002Zn-Fr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 23:19:53 -0500 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183]:39318 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOVUs-0002ZY-Ib for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 23:19:51 -0500 Received: by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix, from userid 559) id E03E3343145; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 04:19:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 23:19:44 -0500 From: Mike Frysinger Message-ID: References: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> <202401062237.406Mb5mI019893@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qZKxJQfNqhrKOepb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202401062237.406Mb5mI019893@freefriends.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --qZKxJQfNqhrKOepb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On 06 Jan 2024 15:37, Karl Berry wrote: > Automake and other packages have used letters for pretests for decades, true ... > and it's not plausible to change now. eh ? there is nothing requiring or restricting the current version behavior other than "it's always been this way". but that doesn't mean it's better. there's no reason we couldn't use more modern convention here like -rc#. appending a letter at the end to indicate a *pre*release is extremely uncommon nowadays. > Also, I have the impression that other packages use random git hexids in > their pretest releases, which aren't numeric either. -k some do, but they use separators which makes it easier to split+compare. if they smashed it together, it'd be impossible to determine where the version stopped and where the git sha started. e.g. 1.2.3-gab989de -mike --qZKxJQfNqhrKOepb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEuQK1JxMl+JKsJRrUQWM7n+g39YEFAmWiD2AACgkQQWM7n+g3 9YEsjw/8Dp/mjpybs/3hyMqkaqHFir1ocVoqF6m3Yy2ErSdal4O8EtchQQu9brhn 7l6W+c3Iv66vFfDX8RGggzlqYd9K3xJYe4nue+hbcvIq2UpexQfT7BAL3o7XYbbs if3/wBVlb21esEUW1mIRdVKkUlMujBff2CzNBXYsL0j29ZWkIxGTNuM6NuqM5Ws5 wvyGYuMcfyHQXAHj3PM2hQkE0LI/FAPF4nymZiGdYn5GK5qLBDkXD+rULBTL3H/g Yl81RV7K2i3Kjrh/oWMpZiCSjZXNaPfwfyhf3dICXVORtp7IlEn7Pwuf9fVnisWu ybT7XM4mcV4X4fr9gOZcSQiO/01nz+LovWV+G3iLlqyA4se+me+syA3cCE6YwLij L6UAMNUJw/5eBd5nPJjeLDLX1/SSMDQ+JpxchE5A5SYFCYSzlfGhP9K1sSRN+0vd CLdL/ba5fNZu8tB8Fx9Zmekt0HR673Vi/xCpL2EZnCkwF9MQDPz5bl7Ax7ywNqU0 oJzk3G5kMHfJyhx0wTEc9BQnCq5IlmiPMw3ejOfD0JCdw+i3ivQPIrRye+G/zpxn GjvkVdtFP9DrxBMpvFt57tk1c5vU79BE6t9Zs8tJ4IBc7UHtY/x6MR6UUt5XJQEG UKnCLLjRmYZAen9Njfb0dXNGPpSgRzpgIm1iKx7JAjdBF3dJ3IA= =RfzH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qZKxJQfNqhrKOepb-- From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts References: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> Resent-From: Karl Berry Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: vapier@gentoo.org Cc: carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.170518670817696 (code B ref 68274); Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 22:58:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41326 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOmxP-0004bM-H5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:58:27 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:43256 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOmxO-0004bD-Cz for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:58:27 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 40DMwQbk007661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:58:26 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 40DMwQae007660; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:58:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:58:26 -0700 Message-Id: <202401132258.40DMwQae007660@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) there is nothing requiring or restricting the current version behavior other than "it's always been this way". True. but that doesn't mean it's better. No way to know what release or test scripts might be relying on the current convention. Changing for the sake of change doesn't seem good. there's no reason we couldn't use more modern convention here like -rc#. I don't much like it, since "rc" always makes me think first of rc files. It also wouldn't fix the problem in jami (still not numeric). Another alternative: when this came up 30-odd years ago, rms changed the GNU maintainers doc to suggest x.y.90, .91, etc. for pretests. Doing that would at least have the benefit of following a recommendation, and as a side effect, would also fix jami's assumption (poor practice though it is, IMHO). https://gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Test-Releases.html#Test-Releases Doing an ls -R on alpha (fp:/srv/data/ftp-mirror/alpha/gnu), it seems (rough guess with some grep counting) the .90 convention is by far the most common approach (a couple thousand), followed by the suffix letter a la automake (~750 releases), followed by -rc (~360). -hexid and -date are both trailing the field. Other random conventions also present. It all feels like bikeshedding to me, so my inclination is to do nothing. If we do change, I think we should use .90. --best, karl. From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: Mike Frysinger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 06:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Karl Berry Cc: carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.17052149947348 (code B ref 68274); Sun, 14 Jan 2024 06:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 06:49:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41552 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuJd-0001uS-RU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:49:54 -0500 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]:46469 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuJb-0001uE-JM for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:49:52 -0500 Received: by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix, from userid 559) id E53D53431FE; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 06:49:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:49:46 -0500 From: Mike Frysinger Message-ID: References: <202401132258.40DMwQae007660@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4Zv8WCGgjSH/zTy0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202401132258.40DMwQae007660@freefriends.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --4Zv8WCGgjSH/zTy0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 13 Jan 2024 15:58, Karl Berry wrote: > Another alternative: when this came up 30-odd years ago, rms changed the > GNU maintainers doc to suggest x.y.90, .91, etc. for pretests. Doing > that would at least have the benefit of following a recommendation, and > as a side effect, would also fix jami's assumption (poor practice though > it is, IMHO). > https://gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Test-Releases.html#Test-Releases >=20 > Doing an ls -R on alpha (fp:/srv/data/ftp-mirror/alpha/gnu), it seems > (rough guess with some grep counting) the .90 convention is by far the > most common approach (a couple thousand), followed by the suffix letter > a la automake (~750 releases), followed by -rc (~360). -hexid and -date > are both trailing the field. Other random conventions also present. >=20 > It all feels like bikeshedding to me, so my inclination is to do > nothing. If we do change, I think we should use .90. --best, karl. using .90 is certainly better than single-letters. if you're fine with it, then let's switch. i cut more inline responses to avoid further bikeshedding on the topic. we can agree to disagree. -mike --4Zv8WCGgjSH/zTy0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEuQK1JxMl+JKsJRrUQWM7n+g39YEFAmWjhAkACgkQQWM7n+g3 9YGGig//d/fmAjsxaEeaumtP+qIVLpAvyOMU02Gt19rgLoINzrFjEChQU4x6hPvV GzAXSazXkkXhj2FFevBsaxA23i9pAJVqcOP+uVVuE+qAYzE1dUrjlV5zfCVR06ad qp4yqFnJh3reGPhn6PykB5SSmWuyZLQ/9tHS85yeV2fV4QwC5Dr7yxVFjF40NZGu b3M9Zl3hYkd/bPQ9sJQm1Sf7g2iw4A4mT1uITNrNZIf2FMT32p+NyE/4hXKr8nJJ i6xY8WsqMTvIhsUzZ6n14PLsTGSmaKdLtadGqfZRc62mId1AuRUDrfMYkahqsyIP UFFyw3s/QqImRlp01aebxYGJmYmA9g+kmfmkasnWITKPAY8rn2I/+M/fOgOCO+mZ iBmMyrPcSaGkJiweZ/QMPSIp8SpP5QAhAOtk2c7uN5ZtSWc4Uwdz6YEX+n9Ldybh Nv7dDHoCLO4PEFVgC439WeVKbwUslpSLrvmDt3IBH/2CrA09ZzrDjuKaDlenyuQg YntS0Ncv7gCuoOosvR9PG7/WYlPnMfbLmVQbtD3/UIKjI/f+EQkFZLpUsaN3C2JX eH6jFwHkaH9hxkouYyt5fWTJ4nuHW8etGWh83TA+qIxzf2PxCw2NqWQ3c3n72CvP /Ycn0PU7eGSlLwydv4xeJ7RRy02aDdWS3czN4N8RG3MStkTiX6w= =exv3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Zv8WCGgjSH/zTy0-- From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: "Zack Weinberg" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 02:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Mike Frysinger" , "Karl Berry" Cc: carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org, autoconf@gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.17054599011505 (code B ref 68274); Wed, 17 Jan 2024 02:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2024 02:51:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50268 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPw1k-0000OC-IJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:51:40 -0500 Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]:60631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPw1j-0000Nv-03 for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:51:39 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA303200AB5; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:51:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap45 ([10.202.2.95]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:51:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=owlfolio.org; h= cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; 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Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:51:31 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-1374-gc37f3abe3d-fm-20240102.001-gc37f3abe MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <202401132258.40DMwQae007660@freefriends.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 21:48:48 -0500 From: "Zack Weinberg" Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sun, Jan 14, 2024, at 1:49 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote: > On 13 Jan 2024 15:58, Karl Berry wrote: >> Another alternative: when this came up 30-odd years ago, rms changed the >> GNU maintainers doc to suggest x.y.90, .91, etc. for pretests. Doing >> that would at least have the benefit of following a recommendation, and >> as a side effect, would also fix jami's assumption (poor practice though >> it is, IMHO). >> https://gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Test-Releases.html#Test-Releases >> >> Doing an ls -R on alpha (fp:/srv/data/ftp-mirror/alpha/gnu), it seems >> (rough guess with some grep counting) the .90 convention is by far the >> most common approach (a couple thousand), followed by the suffix letter >> a la automake (~750 releases), followed by -rc (~360). -hexid and -date >> are both trailing the field. Other random conventions also present. >> >> It all feels like bikeshedding to me, so my inclination is to do >> nothing. If we do change, I think we should use .90. --best, karl. > > using .90 is certainly better than single-letters. if you're fine with > it, then let's switch. For what it's worth, I had planned to switch Autoconf, starting with the next release, to use *some* version numbering scheme for beta releases that sorts correctly according to things like strverscmp() and dpkg --compare-versions. The "append a letter to the version number intended for the final release" convention makes these algorithms sort the betas *after* the release, which is backwards. My plan *was* to append letters to the version number for the *previous* release, with a gap (e.g. 2.72{j,k,...} would be prereleases for 2.73), which I think is what Automake is doing now) but I like .9x version numbers better because it's more common (as you observed) and therefore more likely to be understood at sight. I'd actually forgotten that .9x versions were an official GNU recommendation. zw From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: Sam James Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 03:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Zack Weinberg Cc: vapier@gentoo.org, autoconf@gnu.org, karl@freefriends.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org, carlhansen@gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: Mike Frysinger , autoconf@gnu.org, Karl Berry , bug-automake@gnu.org, carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.170546198125675 (code B ref -1); Wed, 17 Jan 2024 03:27:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2024 03:26:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50294 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPwZI-0006g3-GY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:26:20 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:48090) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPwZD-0006fb-SE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:26:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPwZ6-0006xX-Ur; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:26:08 -0500 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183] helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPwZ3-0000f4-CN; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:26:08 -0500 References: <202401132258.40DMwQae007660@freefriends.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.8; emacs 30.0.50 From: Sam James Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 03:24:58 +0000 Organization: Gentoo In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87bk9kr67u.fsf@gentoo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=140.211.166.183; envelope-from=sam@gentoo.org; helo=smtp.gentoo.org X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) "Zack Weinberg" writes: > On Sun, Jan 14, 2024, at 1:49 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote: >> On 13 Jan 2024 15:58, Karl Berry wrote: >>> Another alternative: when this came up 30-odd years ago, rms changed the >>> GNU maintainers doc to suggest x.y.90, .91, etc. for pretests. Doing >>> that would at least have the benefit of following a recommendation, and >>> as a side effect, would also fix jami's assumption (poor practice though >>> it is, IMHO). >>> https://gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Test-Releases.html#Test-Releases >>> >>> Doing an ls -R on alpha (fp:/srv/data/ftp-mirror/alpha/gnu), it seems >>> (rough guess with some grep counting) the .90 convention is by far the >>> most common approach (a couple thousand), followed by the suffix letter >>> a la automake (~750 releases), followed by -rc (~360). -hexid and -date >>> are both trailing the field. Other random conventions also present. >>> >>> It all feels like bikeshedding to me, so my inclination is to do >>> nothing. If we do change, I think we should use .90. --best, karl. >> >> using .90 is certainly better than single-letters. if you're fine with >> it, then let's switch. > > For what it's worth, I had planned to switch Autoconf, starting with the > next release, to use *some* version numbering scheme for beta releases > that sorts correctly according to things like strverscmp() and > dpkg --compare-versions. The "append a letter to the version number > intended for the final release" convention makes these algorithms sort > the betas *after* the release, which is backwards. > > My plan *was* to append letters to the version number for the *previous* > release, with a gap (e.g. 2.72{j,k,...} would be prereleases for 2.73), > which I think is what Automake is doing now) but I like .9x version numbers > better because it's more common (as you observed) and therefore more likely > to be understood at sight. I'd actually forgotten that .9x versions were > an official GNU recommendation. > I was planning on finally filing a bug for this because I couldn't really package the latest automake pre-release given it totally breaks our sorting (and afaik sorting in every other PM too). We're used to .9x and it works fine for us. thanks, sam From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts References: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> Resent-From: Karl Berry Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: carlhansen@gnu.org, sam@gentoo.org Cc: 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.170587334126180 (code B ref 68274); Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2024 21:42:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rRfa8-0006o2-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:42:21 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:42502 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rRfa6-0006nn-4h; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:42:19 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 40LLgD8c026501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:13 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 40LLgCvU026500; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0700 Message-Id: <202401212142.40LLgCvU026500@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry In-Reply-To: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I changed the pretest version to 1.16.90. Closing. From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Carl Hansen Subject: bug#68274: closed (Re: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts) Message-ID: References: <202401212142.40LLgCvU026500@freefriends.org> <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 68274 X-Gnu-PR-Package: automake Reply-To: 68274@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:43:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1705873383-26268-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1705873383-26268-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts which was filed against the automake package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 68274@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 68274: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D68274 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1705873383-26268-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 68274-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2024 21:42:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rRfa8-0006nz-N0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:42:20 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:42502 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rRfa6-0006nn-4h; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:42:19 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 40LLgD8c026501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:13 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 40LLgCvU026500; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0700 Message-Id: <202401212142.40LLgCvU026500@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: carlhansen@gnu.org, sam@gentoo.org Subject: Re: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts In-Reply-To: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68274-done Cc: 68274@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I changed the pretest version to 1.16.90. Closing. ------------=_1705873383-26268-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2024 04:04:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58260 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuk-0006Kz-EL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:04:02 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:58006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuf-0006KL-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:04:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuU-00085w-HN for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuU-0003d8-9E for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Subject:To:From:Date:in-reply-to: references; bh=Oh2IHfwzSRgT5RI8YndN3wo9QW60rWSxcuV1f9JcbXE=; b=NGN6BST/ZlCe9Y UbFeiCZ1orLUCaDRu0PDrDNhcVzqKJONW28wkZrQscTVl36NsFeW0SYS6MlWWBv1R1Djy1TvhMPbK w48AJGT1RgRcWKaEOjBlBwZQ/UbIc4H7Js4Dn81cMQBsYtXiI5CP15HHh4RiIIFAT2Q9FvlJ6Dg4d bO60UX3kRSw1sl93gTF4A5C7AdjpoSKMS3lk5HtaNK8KHgZPIKutWPP5J9aFTqQA0XmnjMb8TNg0w vq0LnTjx/uWsPBWNk9mbjnuDEN1qIVTjn+Q9V7pn7kE2PY9cPFaXpd80F6uTNNdgcdpwMGMdHWv9K fxFQm3+TzKYblrC0xb5g==; Received: from carlhansen by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLxuS-0006Og-HX for bug-automake@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 23:03:45 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 23:03:44 -0500 From: Carl Hansen To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Message-ID: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Building a package (happens to be "jami") , which runs a script it its build process that checks for automake expr: non-integer argument automake (GNU automake) 1.16j Fatal error: automake 1.7 or higher is required. Please set $AUTOMAKE to point to a newer automake, or upgrade. Problem is the script expects numerical version, thus gets confused. Next version, make it something like "automake 1.16.99999" or something. ------------=_1705873383-26268-1-- From unknown Mon Aug 11 19:04:32 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#68274: automake 1.16j nonnumerical version confuses scripts Resent-From: Mike Frysinger Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 21:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68274 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Karl Berry Cc: carlhansen@gnu.org, 68274@debbugs.gnu.org, sam@gentoo.org Received: via spool by 68274-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68274.17059601691672 (code B ref 68274); Mon, 22 Jan 2024 21:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 68274) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2024 21:49:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41864 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS2Aa-0000Qu-Nj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 16:49:28 -0500 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183]:40154 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rS2AY-0000Qf-2e for 68274@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 16:49:27 -0500 Received: by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix, from userid 559) id 0ABC13432F1; Mon, 22 Jan 2024 21:49:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 16:49:13 -0500 From: Mike Frysinger Message-ID: References: <20240106040343.GA32274@gnu.org> <202401212142.40LLgCvU026500@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d96kQnys4Qpz8Dxj" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202401212142.40LLgCvU026500@freefriends.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --d96kQnys4Qpz8Dxj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On 21 Jan 2024 14:42, Karl Berry wrote: > I changed the pretest version to 1.16.90. Closing. thx bud. i appreciates you. -mike --d96kQnys4Qpz8Dxj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEuQK1JxMl+JKsJRrUQWM7n+g39YEFAmWu4tkACgkQQWM7n+g3 9YG6axAA5TwbPViAcmQkYgmjTvvgNKYkK8pyTbdabORyf6FmpMlXt2KfWbjCF2Dd ns0yuLWLIg9mbw+lsQbi4KZ47AYHj+eIV/FseENTZVECSkwwNFPu1xH3pdb80sAs b810nxPfMl7KRelKHniN/7AaBvEyhIzzxSXtLdo5NnmEhvqGgafdb4Puh1lhS0IH ldXFdwRBYRmObhezv1t3t5lPWOTJinG5zQeXXqj+iHd3/jTmPvL8v4DvVbLpXKg9 bPaKR8SNn8bIPU3/8PSNm6A4B9cy3jRnageKQeNIJoILhJ/b8GEBAwsZL2xxLMJN 7Ace457F9y0KurGMBzeWwDjqlZYJYK8OAw2ZT2qpMzqx3Lh5mb5OyPdORLekjv9A fphEQqo6AXk9gn6VxbUzgJGI64sMrdBqMn33dqKidr42R7ESUoi2T3ZaOGBBZk2S kOuEJCaw9DxltezdJueY1Ie5is6Oe5pk6bLmluwVJhTHjjX6OXDx1MziTCiUqdbt qx2ssKcPgg+3TH4X/aymhHVOQIOYGowgvtp6Fix2YyibpzZRAOZ6WdsXkv0ef/4r BQ6sPyPeFWmwx8GFYbY0OQG6NGyTP6XlY9Q3vS3Kz5Vltuxw1b7xHsz9fdQDZOVQ DvK6yuiCO8sytmWdFOYpg6l+L48zN0VrilEDvZoTV73A9ByVulo= =6Qd0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d96kQnys4Qpz8Dxj--