GNU bug report logs - #67003
26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as well, for chars

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From: help-debbugs <at> gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: tracker <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#67003: closed (26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal
 and Unicode names as well, for chars)
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 16:32:02 +0000

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Your message dated Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:30:54 +0200
with message-id <83h6luzy69.fsf <at> gnu.org>
and subject line Re: [External] : Re: bug#67003: 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as well, for chars
has caused the debbugs.gnu.org bug report #67003,
regarding 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as well, for chars
to be marked as done.

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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as
 well, for chars
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 21:17:56 +0000

In the list of character representations shown, please:

1. State that the digits shown (so far) are decimal.
2. But show also the octal digits.
3. Show also other names, such as Unicode/ISO names.
   E.g., say that "vertical tab" is the char that has the ISO name
   <Line Tabulation> (VT).  (And still mention that it's C-k.)

IOW, give a little more info, esp. commonly encountered or "official" names for such chars.

https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+000B

In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2019-08-29
Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045
Configured using:
 `configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static -g3''

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 67003-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#67003: 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show
 octal and Unicode names as well, for chars
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:30:54 +0200

> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> CC: "67003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <67003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:54:59 +0000
> 
> > > 2. But show also the octal digits.
> 
> > Show where and how?  And why?
> 
> Where we show the ?\ char representation, its
> decimal equivalent (⇒), char name/description (in
> a comment), and key description (in the comment).
> 
> IOW, where we specify these chars that have their
> own, dedicated escape sequences.
> 
> Why?  Because in `General Escape Syntax' we say
> that you can use octal char codes.  Why not show
> the octal values for these chars here?

They are shown in the very next subsection.

> Why not show the hex values also, as that's what
> `insert-char' accepts?

Ditto.

> `Basic Char Syntax' could also usefully say
> something about where you can use escape
> sequences - and that's _not_ to interactively
> insert such a char.

That's a separate issue, but the next section says something about
that as well.

> > > 3. Show also other names, such as Unicode/ISO names.
> > >    E.g., say that "vertical tab" is the char that has the ISO name
> > >    <Line Tabulation> (VT).  (And still mention that it's C-k.)
> > 
> > The next subsection, "General Escape Syntax",
> > includes this information.
> 
> Not for these specific chars that have dedicated
> escape syntaxes, it doesn't.  They're specified
> only in `Basic Char Syntax'.

I don't see the significance.  We obviously cannot show all the
characters, and it isn't like VT is an important one.  It is just an
example.

> > > IOW, give a little more info, esp. commonly
> > > encountered or "official" names for such chars.
> > 
> > I think we already do, but you need to consider the entire section,
> > not just its single subsection, which correctly starts with the
> > basics, before we proceed with more advanced stuff.
> 
> I don't see that it would be bad to let users know,
> here, that what we call "vertical tab" here is also
> called "line tabulation".  Try inserting that char
> using `insert-char' without knowing its Unicode/ISO
> name or its hex value - good luck.

Lumping too much material in a single subsection is bad from the
methodological POV: it makes the subsection more confusing and harder
to read.

So I don't think we need to do anything with this issue, and I'm
therefore closing it.

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