From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.127973357928400 (code B ref -1); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:33:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2010 17:32:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObdAA-0007O1-Ib for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:32:58 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObdA8-0007Nv-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:32:56 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:45804) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ObdAZ-0003Gd-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:33:23 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45946 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ObdAX-0002NP-Po for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:33:22 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObdAW-0001Az-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:33:21 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:43357) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ObdAW-0001An-JP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:33:20 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6LHXHuh025892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:33:19 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6LFVolU021051 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:33:15 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 446482901279733534; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:32:14 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:32:13 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:32:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acso+qjI012Z9K+ORJSNSfdxdG96RA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4C472F5C.01D1:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) emacs -Q In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-07-19 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' Look at any `defcustom'. The doc string and the keywords (e.g. :type) appear to have the same face. In fact, they are only very slightly different. This is a regression wrt 23.1 (and prior). Please revert this mistake. There is no reason for these two faces to be so close. Previously, `font-lock-builtin-face' had an Orchid foreground. That was *much* better than having two faces that are essentially indistinguishable. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130969860219434 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:10:04 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 13:10:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdMQz-00053H-Ik for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:10:02 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdMQv-00052m-Se for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:09:58 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QdMQh-0008Cu-JH; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 15:09:43 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:32:14 -0700") Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 15:06:55 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Beth Sorrentino's _Nine Songs, One Story_: "Tighten My Grip" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:6693@debbugs.gnu.org::S98AyuDndip7cXhU:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000RKuA X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:drew.adams@oracle.com::pcXdkVHsldoo971q:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001eRl2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QdMQh-0008Cu-JH X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310303383.76279@cRW0ujlwNlFl8G/NgpCftw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > Look at any `defcustom'. The doc string and the keywords (e.g. :type) > appear to have the same face. In fact, they are only very slightly > different. > > This is a regression wrt 23.1 (and prior). Please revert this mistake. > There is no reason for these two faces to be so close. > > Previously, `font-lock-builtin-face' had an Orchid foreground. That was > *much* better than having two faces that are essentially > indistinguishable. This is the definition of `font-lock-builtin-face'. Which of these cases is causing the confusion for you? (defface font-lock-builtin-face '((((class grayscale) (background light)) (:foreground "LightGray" :weight bold)) (((class grayscale) (background dark)) (:foreground "DimGray" :weight bold)) (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background light)) (:foreground "MediumOrchid4")) (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background dark)) (:foreground "LightSteelBlue")) (((class color) (min-colors 16) (background light)) (:foreground "Orchid")) (((class color) (min-colors 16) (background dark)) (:foreground "LightSteelBlue")) (((class color) (min-colors 8)) (:foreground "blue" :weight bold)) (t (:weight bold))) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130970155830803 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 13:59:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNCf-00080m-Nk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:59:17 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNCd-00080Z-Er for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:59:16 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p63Dx75T005231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:59:09 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p63Dx6JP025075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 13:59:06 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p63Dx0vg022141; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 08:59:00 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.33.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 06:59:00 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 06:58:49 -0700 Message-ID: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw5goP/A/n61nacTaWpcfKCmFNYBwABlHXw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E1075AD.004C:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > This is the definition of `font-lock-builtin-face'. Which of these > cases is causing the confusion for you? > > (defface font-lock-builtin-face > '((((class grayscale) (background light)) (:foreground > "LightGray" :weight bold)) > (((class grayscale) (background dark)) (:foreground > "DimGray" :weight bold)) > (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background light)) > (:foreground "MediumOrchid4")) > (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background dark)) > (:foreground "LightSteelBlue")) > (((class color) (min-colors 16) (background light)) > (:foreground "Orchid")) > (((class color) (min-colors 16) (background dark)) > (:foreground "LightSteelBlue")) > (((class color) (min-colors 8)) (:foreground "blue" :weight bold)) > (t (:weight bold))) I guess it would be this one, since that is what emacs -Q gives on my machine, I assume (light background, many colors): (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background light)) (:foreground "MediumOrchid4")) As I said, previously the value was "Orchid", and that was better. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130970206431535 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 14:07:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNKp-0008CY-QB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:07:43 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNKn-0008CN-OM for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:07:42 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNKc-0000k2-Ad; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 16:07:30 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 3 Jul 2011 06:58:49 -0700") Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 16:05:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUIAwdeR0QMBgqchnwX DRI2HyMFAgUgBoQYAAACaklEQVQ4jVWUQZPaMAyFVZfmbkzuXq3pPTXci1B6bkLcc4bp+P//hD45 YXZrIBB/fk+y5EDMqul24SQ0yrSoyqiSWImTst4vfJA4yq1XjFGYkwHVfMEPl/itF3P4+QIp+1N0 nePkhSMnboCFzzmcItWOaZojuRRBDKRbzqaoRI/ZLMVAdMrvQx6IDNyPji0dgI6YDEQD9euRo2MV xKhY9z6E4SfRSvTlB4KrBWngcX1kiQ7atw3wDkJ/N4C7JMCi7BgxifLplgUJxjSzA+cGVufyYgDp 4EKIbYgIO8nLmGdH7qwcibdBWMFZNM/Qn/mISKiKZQW7ZOAIIN+EnGtOaso3gHA0lzPtVugOrrdB 9H40U2x/jWYOBbpxv+JjVgDkWlTrp+rjqlNoRbI6stusSinhUiYLjlRWajFEhSbv88U+1rFmb80F 8N4PxftwQqmh2KYxKOThNPYSZps3oBsCyP1t5rBIig67wBRR2sBwSmMuHR2UnLnX6nZQJp/7VYug sguOC8WDGMgDsjre+gVHIwqccEK4AWR2Yj93z1q7teuq7WZTXHE0l/q3q5212rrdwOALXOpTF6yt Nl4K3//G3Vj6Wle44b0DHDdWbL8Xqc3qA6AmuOK7+az7zm3ehxAABouwpkWXTeGtlHj1iyXstCwf oPfTlkNdD1rKJwVGMbB2qNS4gbAJsM4U3TPt/dgE/QsgLTyHBjafHt0vTQHkoNjnN/CrroIo1SV6 DOE/oNrMYDXsEpsvf+qo340k8vmToMy1LCZ5KvlXjAYWAlirnd3H5xClSLHO41GnEcuwHxy09gR0 OFnJ/l/+AUpwyYHv+V2mAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Colder's _Heat_: "Wrong Baby" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:drew.adams@oracle.com::iNfRKm3A/Ed8mDqU:00000000000000000000000000000000000000009hJz X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:6693@debbugs.gnu.org::Fh8sZEQ1Cxbqsgs4:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000yYiO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QdNKc-0000k2-Ad X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310306850.6409@xdaTjFfVTamSd7yPQ9BNEQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > I guess it would be this one, since that is what emacs -Q gives on my machine, I > assume (light background, many colors): > > (((class color) (min-colors 88) (background light)) > (:foreground "MediumOrchid4")) > > As I said, previously the value was "Orchid", and that was better. The commit message for the change from Orchid to MediumOrchid4 is: === modified file 'lisp/ChangeLog' *** lisp/ChangeLog 2009-08-01 16:21:45 +0000 --- lisp/ChangeLog 2009-08-02 14:20:02 +0000 *************** *** 1,3 **** --- 1,9 ---- + 2009-08-02 Chong Yidong + + * font-lock.el (font-lock-string-face, font-lock-builtin-face) + (font-lock-variable-name-face, font-lock-constant-face): Darken + the colors for light backgrounds. + So presumably some people had difficulty reading Orchid on light backgrounds? Perhaps a different colour could be used in your use case that would still be legible, but separate the doc string from the keywords. Do you have a suggestion? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13097036701373 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 14:34:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNkj-0000M6-QH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:34:30 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNki-0000Lu-9z for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:34:28 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p63EYKCO029624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:34:22 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p63EYKZ4001392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:34:20 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p63EYEju004023; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 09:34:14 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.33.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 07:34:14 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 07:34:03 -0700 Message-ID: <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw5ipVMLDvRJZn4REeDX3TjLS2i4wAAktZw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E107DEE.00D5:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > The commit message for the change from Orchid to MediumOrchid4 is: > > + 2009-08-02 Chong Yidong > ... Darken the colors for light backgrounds. > > So presumably some people had difficulty reading Orchid on light > backgrounds? Yes, I'm familiar with that commit. I disagree that it represents an improvement, which is why I filed the bug report. > Perhaps a different colour could be used in your use case that would > still be legible, but separate the doc string from the keywords. > Do you have a suggestion? I suggest "Orchid", as before. But I would probably be OK with any other solution that distinguishes these two faces better without introducing other such clashes. And this is _not_ about my use case. This is about the Emacs default, -Q, case, as expressed in the bug report, which starts with "emacs -Q". Personally, I use a very different color scheme - this has nothing to do with my use case. Just _look_ at the colors, using emacs -Q. Do the same in an older release also, to compare. You should be able to see the problem clearly. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13097044322628 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 14:47:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNx1-0000gJ-NL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:47:12 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNwz-0000g7-ES for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:47:10 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QdNwn-0001Kd-Ak; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 16:46:57 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 3 Jul 2011 07:34:03 -0700") Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 16:46:51 +0200 Message-ID: References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUIAwdeR0QMBgqchnwX DRI2HyMFAgUgBoQYAAACaklEQVQ4jVWUQZPaMAyFVZfmbkzuXq3pPTXci1B6bkLcc4bp+P//hD45 YXZrIBB/fk+y5EDMqul24SQ0yrSoyqiSWImTst4vfJA4yq1XjFGYkwHVfMEPl/itF3P4+QIp+1N0 nePkhSMnboCFzzmcItWOaZojuRRBDKRbzqaoRI/ZLMVAdMrvQx6IDNyPji0dgI6YDEQD9euRo2MV xKhY9z6E4SfRSvTlB4KrBWngcX1kiQ7atw3wDkJ/N4C7JMCi7BgxifLplgUJxjSzA+cGVufyYgDp 4EKIbYgIO8nLmGdH7qwcibdBWMFZNM/Qn/mISKiKZQW7ZOAIIN+EnGtOaso3gHA0lzPtVugOrrdB 9H40U2x/jWYOBbpxv+JjVgDkWlTrp+rjqlNoRbI6stusSinhUiYLjlRWajFEhSbv88U+1rFmb80F 8N4PxftwQqmh2KYxKOThNPYSZps3oBsCyP1t5rBIig67wBRR2sBwSmMuHR2UnLnX6nZQJp/7VYug sguOC8WDGMgDsjre+gVHIwqccEK4AWR2Yj93z1q7teuq7WZTXHE0l/q3q5212rrdwOALXOpTF6yt Nl4K3//G3Vj6Wle44b0DHDdWbL8Xqc3qA6AmuOK7+az7zm3ehxAABouwpkWXTeGtlHj1iyXstCwf oPfTlkNdD1rKJwVGMbB2qNS4gbAJsM4U3TPt/dgE/QsgLTyHBjafHt0vTQHkoNjnN/CrroIo1SV6 DOE/oNrMYDXsEpsvf+qo340k8vmToMy1LCZ5KvlXjAYWAlirnd3H5xClSLHO41GnEcuwHxy09gR0 OFnJ/l/+AUpwyYHv+V2mAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Colder's _Heat_: "Your Face" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:drew.adams@oracle.com::sz87jopsz5ZOdVtC:00000000000000000000000000000000000000003IYT X-Hashcash: 1:23:110703:6693@debbugs.gnu.org::Twz1CnAJNsyZNnIC:000000000000000000000000000000000000000009wjs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QdNwn-0001Kd-Ak X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310309217.45054@inlzPj8HSvbylb56fSfHcw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > Just _look_ at the colors, using emacs -Q. Do the same in an older > release also, to compare. You should be able to see the problem > clearly. I always use a black background, so I don't see this bug personally. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 15:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13097057917695 (code B ref 6693); Sun, 03 Jul 2011 15:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2011 15:09:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdOIw-000204-7w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:09:50 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdOIu-0001zt-Iw for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:09:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p63F9e8R021501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 15:09:42 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p63F9dDk003040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 15:09:40 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p63F9YSo022868; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 10:09:34 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.33.69) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 08:09:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com><13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 08:09:22 -0700 Message-ID: <102216EA0BE548508A6EA156F19F908F@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw5kBgkw14YG/ZBSPydbQz292QeVwAAq3FA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E108636.0070:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > Just _look_ at the colors, using emacs -Q. Do the same in an older > > release also, to compare. You should be able to see the problem > > clearly. > > I always use a black background, so I don't see this bug personally. The bug is not about personal use. It is about emacs -Q. On my platform, emacs -Q uses a white background. From the emacs -Q `frame-parameters': (background-mode . light) (background-color . "white") From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: David De La Harpe Golden Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 00:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13097407373845 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 00:53:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 00:52:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdXOa-0000zy-Q3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:52:16 -0400 Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdXOY-0000zm-UA for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:52:15 -0400 Received: from [87.198.47.56] (87-198-47-56.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.47.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A3A068438; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 01:52:08 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:52:06 +0100 From: David De La Harpe Golden User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110626 Icedove/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030901070100020401060406" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030901070100020401060406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 03/07/11 15:34, Drew Adams wrote: > Just _look_ at the colors, using emacs -Q. Do the same in an older release > also, to compare. You should be able to see the problem clearly. > > Computer systems vary quite a bit in their color reproduction, and different people can have different color vision, and not just in a "complete red/green colorblindness" fashion either [1]. I'd say we absolutely should try to keep the emacs out-of-box color scheme colorblind-safe, so some people having problems _is_ a reason to change the scheme. It's just an assumption that everyone is seeing what you see may be faulty. font-lock-doc (#8b2252 or so) definitely still looks pretty different to font-lock-builtin (#7a378b or so) on my system. Are the colors actually used on your system even coming out as similar hex values to those? See also samples in old emacs-devel thread [2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Anomalous_trichromacy [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-07/msg01582.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-07/msg01588.html --------------030901070100020401060406 Content-Type: image/png; name="emacs_builtin_vs_doc.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="emacs_builtin_vs_doc.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAkIAAADkCAIAAAD7H9yNAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlwSFlz AAAOxAAADsQBlSsOGwAAAAd0SU1FB9sHBAApH0AhnxUAAAAZdEVYdENvbW1lbnQAQ3JlYXRl ZCB3aXRoIEdJTVBXgQ4XAAAgAElEQVR42uyddXwURxvHZ+U8yUUu7h4kEAjFHQLBpbgGLVLc rcWKluKlBUop7l6gaCnu1oRA3F0u53e7O+8fmxxp5HIXDn3n++mHbvZmR56dnd8+M8/uAoBA IBAIxGcLBgCAECJDIBAIBOLz4vnz5yEhIST7R3p6OrIIAoFAID4jnj17BgAgP3o9+o5ZhU4G AoFAfKYc3TH341bAzDIGIUhNkT24lxUXJ5UWanECk9jxA2vYNGrsZGPLq1DDhC6tUD9AIBCI z5S+Y1Z9XCUzp4yplNTZ0wnPnuZgGODySKGQQ3JwrRY+f5r37Glek2aOLVq64DhW5igRqUD9 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02:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 02:32:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdYxN-0004aq-L4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:32:17 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.144]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdYxL-0004af-3c for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:32:15 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp128036225047.central.yale.edu [128.36.225.47]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p642W63t029709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:32:07 -0400 From: Chong Yidong References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:32:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> (David De La Harpe Golden's message of "Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:52:06 +0100") Message-ID: <87oc1a4vyx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.144 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) David De La Harpe Golden writes: > I'd say we absolutely should try to keep the emacs out-of-box color > scheme colorblind-safe That is hard to get right; a color-blind safe palette inherently conflicts with the goal of making face colors as distinguishable as possible for the non-color-blind. Emacs 24 has a custom theme (dichromacy) that implements a palette specifically optimized for dichromatic color blindness. As for font-lock-builtin-face, changing it back to Orchid is no good; that shade is far too light, at least on the LCD monitors I've used Emacs on. I wouldn't mind changing it to something completely different though, e.g. midnight blue. We have too may purplish colors in the default palette anyway. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130975579230821 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:04:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 05:03:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdbJP-000814-5i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:03:11 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdbJN-00080r-Ew for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:03:09 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p64531OR023921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:03:03 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6452xaF028495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:03:00 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6452rID013761; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 00:02:53 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.87) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:02:52 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:02:40 -0700 Message-ID: <497D3295AEF04C44B010A9DEF6596B31@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01CC39CC.EE0FDB70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Thread-Index: Acw55KbCNe3wiu5BSBqmR7vE1JS4pgAIiZBg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E114987.0086:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-6.300, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CC39CC.EE0FDB70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > font-lock-doc (#8b2252 or so) definitely still > looks pretty different to font-lock-builtin (#7a378b or so) on my > system. See attached. I'd say that three of the faces shown are quite close in appearance: `font-lock-builtin-face' (":type", ":group") `font-lock-doc-face' (the doc strings) `font-lock-keyword-face' ("defcustom") But especially the first two of these are close. The point was also that previously these faces were better distinguished - `font-lock-builtin-face' was `Orchid', not `MediumOrchid4'. > Are the colors actually used on your system even > coming out as similar hex values to those? Those same hex values are used on my system. 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jM4zNgbEPgXcPdPQvg9UPZKYwL6oNg5EFcaaKeojQNWwOmxawYFpL1D5wPrTvptKDI6BHmphPa4z DoIxr/Wyug1BkajrrAtkERn5PMprEQApQh85kAwhFYRITL4dgUCbMq8eskHuE5KDGI/ygIDzSI/D sBv3KELwyo8X+ZAmnKXwshEfrMInmUOpMMNW8ULTozUklEIB3MM7JLb0mkM1tCwoTIzuCggAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01CC39CC.EE0FDB70-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Chong Yidong'" , "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130975654831951 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 05:15:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdbVb-0008JI-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:15:47 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdbVZ-0008J5-36 for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:15:45 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p645Fa4W021707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:15:38 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p645FZNE029995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:15:36 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p645FU0P022054; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 00:15:30 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.87) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:15:30 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com><13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com><4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> <87oc1a4vyx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:15:17 -0700 Message-ID: <74221634EBB8403589F38AE4BDAE42F8@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87oc1a4vyx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: Acw58qA7GFs3cd6VSMKbqiLsHk+TZwAFQVZA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E114C7B.0013:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > As for font-lock-builtin-face, changing it back to Orchid is no good; > that shade is far too light, at least on the LCD monitors I've used > Emacs on. FWIW, I disagree (on the LCD monitors I've used). > I wouldn't mind changing it to something completely different > though, e.g. midnight blue. We have too may purplish colors in the > default palette anyway. A priori I have nothing against changing it to something completely different. Dunno about midnight blue. I mainly see font-lock with Emacs-Lisp code (in my use), and ther is nothing similar to midnight blue there. On the other hand, midnight blue is not too different from black (the default foreground). `list-faces-display' shows nothing super close to midnight blue (and nothing close at all in the font-lock faces). But it looks like the medium blue of `minibuffer-prompt-face' is already quite dark and not too easily distinguished from black. My guess is that midnight blue would be too dark (too close to black). I suggest that you do your best to pick another color, if you disagree with `Orchid', and that people try it for a while to see (discuss). This is obviously not the most important bug. But if we can better separate these two faces that would be good. Note that (at least in Emacs-Lisp code) this face is used for coloring only keywords: `:type', `:group' etc. It is not for coloring large spans of text that someone needs to read. The point in coloring the keywords is just to draw attention - they do not need to be super-readable (as does a doc string, for instance). That's another reason I don't think a face like `Orchid' was a bad choice. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org, 'David De La Harpe Golden' Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.1309757243441 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 05:27:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdbgp-000073-24 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:27:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdbgn-00006s-8Q for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:27:21 -0400 Received: from cyd by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdbgg-0005yt-P5; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:27:14 -0400 From: Chong Yidong References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> <87oc1a4vyx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <74221634EBB8403589F38AE4BDAE42F8@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:27:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <74221634EBB8403589F38AE4BDAE42F8@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:15:17 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) "Drew Adams" writes: > I mainly see font-lock with Emacs-Lisp code (in my use), and ther is > nothing similar to midnight blue there. On the other hand, midnight > blue is not too different from black (the default foreground). It is maybe a bit too dark. So maybe something like royal blue is preferable. > Note that (at least in Emacs-Lisp code) this face is used for coloring > only keywords: `:type', `:group' etc. It is not for coloring large > spans of text that someone needs to read. There is no guarantee that this is always true, particularly since many faces inherit from font lock faces. So it is important for all the font lock faces to be easily distinguished from the background. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: David De La Harpe Golden Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13097738601264 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 10:04:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdg0q-0000KL-Ct for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:04:20 -0400 Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdg0o-0000K7-7d for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:04:18 -0400 Received: from [87.198.47.56] (87-198-47-56.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.47.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C78D468438; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 11:04:11 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <4E11901A.3060408@harpegolden.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 11:04:10 +0100 From: David De La Harpe Golden User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110626 Icedove/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> <497D3295AEF04C44B010A9DEF6596B31@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <497D3295AEF04C44B010A9DEF6596B31@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) On 04/07/11 06:02, Drew Adams wrote: > `font-lock-builtin-face' (":type", ":group") > `font-lock-doc-face' (the doc strings) > `font-lock-keyword-face' ("defcustom") > > But especially the first two of these are close. Hmm. Looking at your screenshot reminded me: but then what about font-lock-comment-face (Firebrick)? Do you also see it as a bit too close to font-lock-doc-face (VioletRed4), but from the other direction (on the hue wheel)? From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130979596923575 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:13:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 16:12:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdllQ-00068C-O8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:12:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdllN-00067y-TL for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:12:46 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p64GCbqw021857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:12:39 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p64GCZWZ001116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:12:36 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p64GCUpj026864; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 11:12:30 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.32.87) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 09:12:30 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> <497D3295AEF04C44B010A9DEF6596B31@us.oracle.com> <4E11901A.3060408@harpegolden.net> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:12:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4E11901A.3060408@harpegolden.net> Thread-Index: Acw6McFvbzYm/4/sTnOOxN1wZAKmmQAMV/AQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E11E677.010D:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > `font-lock-builtin-face' (":type", ":group") > > `font-lock-doc-face' (the doc strings) > > `font-lock-keyword-face' ("defcustom") > > > > But especially the first two of these are close. > > Hmm. Looking at your screenshot reminded me: but then what about > font-lock-comment-face (Firebrick)? Do you also see it as a bit too > close to font-lock-doc-face (VioletRed4), but from the other > direction (on the hue wheel)? All three of these are close: font-lock-variable-name-face font-lock-doc-face font-lock-comment-face However, I personally am not bothered by those similarities. Again, personally I see font-lock mostly with Emacs-Lisp code, so I might not be the best one to ask. There is almost never any problem confusing a comment with a string (in Emacs Lisp). I suppose that a string and a comment on the same line might be confusable, but in practice I don't think there is a problem here (worth trying to fix, possibly messing up other things). Similarly, I don't see a significant problem from the similarity between `font-lock-variable-name-face' and the others, because of context. Yidong makes the argument (essentially) that we should not take context into consideration, since faces can inherit from the font-lock faces. IMHO, that is rather a problem with inheriting faces (esp. inheriting willy nilly), but we've been through that discussion before and I know that I will not be able to convince you (pl.) about that. Wrt `font-lock-builtin-face', I say go for it: make some change and see what happens. My guess is that medium blue would be better than royal blue, but do what you think is best. I'm pretty much done here. I mainly wanted to draw your attention to the problem, reporting the color similarity for built-in and doc (and my personal preference for the previous situation (Orchid)). Fix the problem as you see fit, and we'll see then whether anyone has a better approach etc. I should probably have said that a second problem I have with the MediumViolet4 choice for the builtin face is that it does not stand out from black - IOW, it is not sufficiently noticeable, for keywords. That's no doubt another reason why I preferred Orchid, and a reason why my argument about differing contexts doesn't mitigate the problem here. In sum (for the second problem): builtin doesn't stand out enough, and I don't (personally) care whether it is "too light" (e.g. Orchid). What's important for something like keywords is that they stand out. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 17:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David De La Harpe Golden Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 6693@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.130979892828089 (code B ref 6693); Mon, 04 Jul 2011 17:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 17:02:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdmXA-0007Iz-Ej for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:02:08 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdmX8-0007IW-FU for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:02:07 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAIvwEU5FxIxr/2dsb2JhbABTp3t4iHrAf4Y2BJ5chCw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,473,1304308800"; d="scan'208";a="120395155" Received: from 69-196-140-107.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.140.107]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 04 Jul 2011 13:02:00 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id F0A5F59173; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:01:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> (David De La Harpe Golden's message of "Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:52:06 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > I'd say we absolutely should try to keep the emacs out-of-box color scheme > colorblind-safe, so some people having problems _is_ a reason to change the > scheme. But there are 2 issues: 1- make sure that default faces have a foreground that combines well with its background. I.e. each individual char should be legible even for colorblind users. 2- try to use visually different appearances for different font-lock faces. The first issue is very important (e.g. a requirement to enable font-lock by default). The second is very secondary in comparison. Stefan "and note that I carefully talk about the appearance of the faces, and not their color: most of my faces use the default foreground and background color and are distinguished by other attributes" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 04 16:10:20 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2011 20:10:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdpTI-0005dU-6Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:10:20 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-05.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.146]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QdpTF-0005dH-NB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:10:18 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp128036226224.central.yale.edu [128.36.226.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-05.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p64KABbR003563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:10:11 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 6693 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 16:10:10 -0400 Message-ID: <8739ilvmcd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.146 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) close 6693 thanks From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , David De La Harpe Golden Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.1309875958345 (code B ref 6693); Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2011 14:25:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe6ZY-00005V-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 10:25:57 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe6ZW-00005H-1t for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 10:25:55 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe6ZH-00023u-JP; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:25:39 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:01:59 -0400") Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:17 +0200 Message-ID: References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Joanna Newsom's _Have One On Me (2)_: "Go Long" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:drew.adams@oracle.com::dif26ff8l6jab763:00000000000000000000000000000000000000002+oU X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:6693@debbugs.gnu.org::2+RTV3D/DeqizXx6:000000000000000000000000000000000000000009BCB X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:david@harpegolden.net::sUx92yzNqCDigUIX:00000000000000000000000000000000000000007Cqv X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::x0yR9taKbOCRbDLS:0000000000000000000000000000000000000Ub+7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qe6ZH-00023u-JP X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310480739.70212@zNcg7w9exVQeLeB7eR/ioA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > 1- make sure that default faces have a foreground that combines well > with its background. I.e. each individual char should be legible > even for colorblind users. Yes, that's important. But I don't think we have much of a problem in that area at the moment? Putting red text on a green background (or vice versa) isn't very nice even for non-colourblind people. :-) > 2- try to use visually different appearances for different font-lock faces. > > The first issue is very important (e.g. a requirement to enable > font-lock by default). The second is very secondary in comparison. In this specific instance, I think changing the orchid-ish colour to MediumBlue (or similar) would be a good change, so I've now committed that. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , David De La Harpe Golden Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13098794788770 (code B ref 6693); Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:25:01 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2011 15:24:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe7UM-0002HP-Gi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:24:38 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.143]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe7UL-0002HB-1O for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:24:37 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp128036225170.central.yale.edu [128.36.225.170]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p65FOU2j025577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 Jul 2011 11:24:30 -0400 From: Chong Yidong References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:24:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:24:17 +0200") Message-ID: <87box8vjgx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.143 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > In this specific instance, I think changing the orchid-ish colour to > MediumBlue (or similar) would be a good change, so I've now committed > that. You ended up changing the color definition on 16-color displays, which was probably not your intention. Shortly before, I had already changed the color on high-color displays to dark slate blue, so I went ahead and reverted your change. From unknown Sun Jun 22 00:49:40 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6693: 24.0.50; font-lock-(builtin|doc) faces are *way* too close Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6693 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Chong Yidong Cc: 6693@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , David De La Harpe Golden Received: via spool by 6693-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6693.13098797709168 (code B ref 6693); Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:30:03 +0000 Received: (at 6693) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2011 15:29:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe7Z2-0002No-Q2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:29:29 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe7Z0-0002Nb-Nl for 6693@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:29:27 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qe7Yo-0003pc-G2; Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:29:14 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87box8vjgx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Tue, 05 Jul 2011 11:24:30 -0400") Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:29:11 +0200 Message-ID: References: <05CB9D294C4646D5A2F574AB5A9DFA55@us.oracle.com> <13C511D445304C4C94EE650D4796ECD0@us.oracle.com> <4E110EB6.3060407@harpegolden.net> <87box8vjgx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Joanna Newsom's _Have One On Me (2)_: "Go Long" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:cyd@stupidchicken.com::ASqVty8NxgXhmBQ7:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000A1Dq X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:6693@debbugs.gnu.org::GuhednRluMjB7orE:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000tsx+ X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:drew.adams@oracle.com::s2rCxkWFguqnBss5:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000VaHS X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::NmIohcMYtnfxDjkh:0000000000000000000000000000000000000pta9 X-Hashcash: 1:23:110705:david@harpegolden.net::AEJUO8QDczg4LaNK:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000sKxh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qe7Yo-0003pc-G2 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310484554.61364@xsJsahi+6HwPGsyNVMnCng X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) Chong Yidong writes: > You ended up changing the color definition on 16-color displays, which > was probably not your intention. Shortly before, I had already changed > the color on high-color displays to dark slate blue, so I went ahead and > reverted your change. Oops; sorry. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/