From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 6689@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.127972480323977 (code B ref -1); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2010 15:06:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasc-0006Eg-SU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:06:43 -0400 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasb-0006Eb-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:06:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:41232) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Obat2-0000Hl-M9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:08 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56980 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Obat1-0000Z6-2i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasz-0006tx-Je for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:06 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:62926) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasz-0006tJ-Do for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6LF6xHi005495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:02 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6LF6mxQ016925 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:06:49 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 424074861279724765; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:05 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:04 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acso5j07sXtraAGfQlmsfM185ritSw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4C470D12.019E:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) emacs -Q In another Emacs session, select some text in any way and hit `M-w'. Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the error "No primary selection". For example, try to yank the text into the prompt at `report-emacs-bug' using mouse-2. Note: C-y works, but mouse-2 does not work. I believe there have been a bunch of bug reports about selection recently, but I haven't followed them. It seems pretty broken, in any case. Please restore selection, copying/killing, and yanking to what it was like before. It was NOT broken - please do not "fix" it. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-07-19 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: David De La Harpe Golden Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Chong Yidong , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127983365114537 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2010 21:20:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3CE-0003mQ-SD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:20:51 -0400 Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3CD-0003mK-5R for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:20:49 -0400 Received: from [87.198.55.210] (87-198-55-210.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.55.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3862B683A2; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:20:42 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:20:42 +0100 From: David De La Harpe Golden User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100620 Icedove/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) On 21/07/10 16:06, Drew Adams wrote: > emacs -Q > > In another Emacs session, select some text in any way and hit `M-w'. > > Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the error "No primary > selection". This is because w32 emacs' internal primary emulation is presently intra-session only. There may be a way to make it cross-session or even get primary-like behaviour to/from other w32 apps (involving accessibility apis), but it would be somewhat nontrivial. "(global-set-key [mouse-2] 'mouse-yank-at-click)" will cause mouse-2 to revert to using the kill-ring/clipboard. > Please restore selection, copying/killing, and yanking to what it was > like before. w32 in particular has actually long had a platform-specific default in place corresponding to the most major of the recent changes, funny enough. Mind you, if you naively reversed the settings as presented in NEWS, it wouldn't actually restore the old settings on w32, because the fact w32 e.g. already had x-select-enable-clipboard on by default isn't noted. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127983455815033 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2010 21:35:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3Qs-0003uQ-0I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:35:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc3Qq-0003uK-IO for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:35:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6MLZo4a018635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:35:51 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6MLZmOr000844; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:35:48 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 428925661279834540; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:35:40 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:35:40 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:35:41 -0700 Message-ID: <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> Thread-Index: Acsp48BBqi6b7MJwQPKHEHnFobKDXAAAFVNw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C48B9B6.008A:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > > emacs -Q > > > > In another Emacs session, select some text in any way and hit `M-w'. > > Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the error > > "No primary selection". > > This is because w32 emacs' internal primary emulation is presently > intra-session only. Whatever the reason, the pesky fact remains that there was no problem prior to the recent changes that broke this. I do this all the time between Emacs sessions, sessions of the same release and of different releases. It works perfectly going back to at least Emacs 20. Or it did until the latest build I have. Please get rid of this regression and restore the normal behavior. We don't need selection etc. to be "improved"; it just needs to work as usual. > There may be a way to make it cross-session or even > get primary-like behaviour to/from other w32 apps (involving > accessibility apis), but it would be somewhat nontrivial. There assuredly _is_ a way, however, to go back to what we had. Please follow that path ASAP. > "(global-set-key [mouse-2] 'mouse-yank-at-click)" will cause > mouse-2 to revert to using the kill-ring/clipboard. Users should not need to jump through hoops to get the useful, stable behavior in this regard that we've had for decades. The Emacs mouse has better behavior than elsewhere, not worse. I don't give a mouse's ass for bringing the Emacs mouse into line with other apps. Please put any clever ideas for improvement into an _alternative_ setup: a new, experimental option or a new minor mode. And make sure that it is _opt-in_, not opt-out. Thanks. > > Please restore selection, copying/killing, and yanking to > > what it was like before. > > w32 in particular has actually long had a platform-specific > default in place corresponding to the most major of the > recent changes, funny enough. Such justification really doesn't matter. The proof is in the pudding. The _behavior_ has changed. It is the behavior that needs to be restored. > Mind you, if you naively reversed the settings as presented > in NEWS, it wouldn't actually restore the old settings on w32, > because the fact w32 e.g. already had x-select-enable-clipboard > on by default isn't noted. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, 'David De La Harpe Golden' Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127983699916179 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2010 22:16:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc44D-0004Cu-Rg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:16:38 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.79]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc44C-0004Cp-Dy for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:16:36 -0400 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014221.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o6MMGWEa010089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:16:32 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 79D51C013; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:16:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:16:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:35:41 -0700") Message-ID: <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > Whatever the reason, the pesky fact remains that there was no problem > prior to the recent changes that broke this. The problem was that the way Emacs interacted with X selections was non-standard. The issue is subtle; you can read about it on the emacs-devel archives. Clearly, these changes need further adjustments. But it's a non-starter to demand that everything be backed out in order to avoid temporarily inconveniencing the users of the DEVELOPMENT sources. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Chong Yidong'" Cc: 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, 'David De La Harpe Golden' Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127983813516773 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2010 22:35:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc4MZ-0004MU-G5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:35 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc4MX-0004MM-VG for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:34 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6MMZRFD012528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:35:29 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6MKfJWH009168; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:35:25 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 450930851279838087; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:34:47 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:34:47 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: Acsp649k2JfsCacrRq6yECG2LbfuSwAActaQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4C48C7AF.00AB:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > > Whatever the reason, the pesky fact remains that there was > > no problem prior to the recent changes that broke this. > > The problem was that the way Emacs interacted with X selections was > non-standard. The issue is subtle; you can read about it on the > emacs-devel archives. Clearly, these changes need further > adjustments. But it's a non-starter to demand that everything > be backed out in order to avoid temporarily inconveniencing the > users of the DEVELOPMENT sources. I have no problem with the DEVELOPMENT sources being broken. I was not clear enough about that, no doubt. I do have a problem with our changing the default behavior. Especially without a full discussion. I don't see a clear proposal for a change in the default behavior on emacs-devel. And I don't see a proposal for a change as an opt-in option, an alternative. What I see - perhaps mistakenly - is that the default behavior has changed. If the default behavior will not be changed, and there is only a temporary bug in the DEVELOPMENT sources, then I have no problem with that. (I should have been clearer about that.) Are you changing the default behavior or not? That's the question. Not whether there is some temporary problem. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Juanma Barranquero Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:50:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Chong Yidong , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127984258319233 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:50:03 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2010 23:49:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc5WJ-00050A-9d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:49:43 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.214.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc5WH-000505-6T for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:49:41 -0400 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1324504bwz.3 for <6689@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pCDPvTNNWTO1RpEbLJvlXwlOk6kjFHM7eJwwmdQS+GU=; b=CZE2XXOrnciQ+CQN9ft3c+UDtJmtA/hJnGgtjCQe1U2S+R7ZBGOdZplf2fKThdV/vs +4i8TZ/eIe72hvJm6CwtH+auyVZ+IM9mi9mLbILIJGm3V+pOv/Qy5ABEqVJmN4E5llsE d9q6dVXgKZRgmFIUP7GjyDgZdnupACK+oWccM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lHU9mcNoNrTpdIZIGueMIOsrRChQoU79qypZla9bXDIuigyVnhE7aYhqbIJqibHuoO O78qx6SGnQBgL1VHBdCHWuggDExmrqSTJ+aMdZ57LV98NDdMh55O7VRmfeQAUhzZuygS KctAbO643NPhlKbsgRPVi9/5M00YU2GDTMx1I= Received: by 10.204.152.4 with SMTP id e4mr1880833bkw.120.1279842575187; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.180.136 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> From: Juanma Barranquero Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:49:15 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 00:34, Drew Adams wrote: > Are you changing the default behavior or not? =C2=A0That's the question. > Not whether there is some temporary problem. There was no question in the original post for this bug. It was pretty assertive: Please restore selection, copying/killing, and yanking to what it was like before. It was NOT broken - please do not "fix" it. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juanma From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.12798814036992 (code B ref 6689); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2010 10:36:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcFcR-0001oj-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:36:43 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcFcO-0001od-TD for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:36:42 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L6000200ARXO000@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:36:37 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.61.30]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L6000LSKAT0VCC0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:36:37 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:36:37 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:34:48 -0700 > Cc: 6689@debbugs.gnu.org > > I do have a problem with our changing the default behavior. > Especially without a full discussion. > > I don't see a clear proposal for a change in the default behavior on > emacs-devel. And I don't see a proposal for a change as an opt-in option, an > alternative. > > What I see - perhaps mistakenly - is that the default behavior has changed. > > If the default behavior will not be changed, and there is only a temporary bug > in the DEVELOPMENT sources, then I have no problem with that. (I should have > been clearer about that.) Drew, please calm down. Whatever changes were made, no one meant to make them on Windows. The motivation was behavior on Posix systems wrt the clipboard and the primary selection. As I wrote elsewhere, I don't see any reasons to change the behavior on Windows, which lacks the primary and secondary selections, and has just the clipboard. Can you give a concise list of problems in the new behavior on Windows? I don't mean critique, I mean a list of what now behaves differently from what it did before. Such a list would help find the damage and fix it. TIA From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: David De La Harpe Golden Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.12798816327198 (code B ref 6689); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2010 10:40:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcFg8-0001s3-9s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:40:32 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcFg6-0001rw-Qv for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 06:40:31 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L6000200AOBLJ00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:39:48 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.61.30]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L6000JEUAYBLEK0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:39:48 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:39:48 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83tynqtrbf.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:20:42 +0100 > From: David De La Harpe Golden > Cc: Chong Yidong , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org > > There may be a way to make [w32 emacs' internal primary emulation] > cross-session or even get primary-like behaviour to/from other w32 > apps (involving accessibility apis), but it would be somewhat > nontrivial. Why would it make sense to do such a thing? Windows does not have any "primary selection", it has only the clipboard. Windows users do not expect anything but the clipboard to work between applications. > Mind you, if you naively reversed the settings as presented in NEWS, it > wouldn't actually restore the old settings on w32, because the fact w32 > e.g. already had x-select-enable-clipboard on by default isn't noted. Would reverting the defaults of all those variables except x-select-enable-clipboard revert to the old behavior on Windows? From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:59:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127989713717088 (code B ref 6689); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:59:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2010 14:58:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcJiC-0004RZ-EW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:58:56 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcJi9-0004RU-Ev for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:58:54 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6NEwnd8005480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:58:50 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6NEwkDb015894; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:58:48 GMT Received: from abhmt017.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 452793301279897055; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:57:35 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.216.179) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:57:34 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:57:26 -0700 Message-ID: <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcsqUu/bsZXwqQjeScq2l223gJWPBQAIDi+g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C49AE29.00A1:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > Whatever changes were made, no one meant to make them on Windows. Good to hear. If similar symptoms appear on other platforms (dunno), then I would hope they would be removed from there as well. > The motivation was behavior on Posix systems > wrt the clipboard and the primary selection. As I wrote elsewhere, I > don't see any reasons to change the behavior on Windows, which lacks > the primary and secondary selections, and has just the clipboard. > > Can you give a concise list of problems in the new behavior on > Windows? I gave concise, clear descriptions - see the original bug reports. Do you want me to repeat the recipes? Here again is the one for this bug report (#6689): > emacs -Q > > In another Emacs session, select some text in any way > and hit `M-w'. > > Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the > error "No primary selection". For example, try to yank the > text into the prompt at `report-emacs-bug' using mouse-2. > Note: C-y works, but mouse-2 does not work. What part of that description do you not follow? Here's the other original report (#6694) recipe (again): > I click mouse-1 at the left of some text and then > mouse-3 at the right of it, to select it (a Lisp symbol). > Then I try to yank it using `mouse-2': > > Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument > char-or-string-p #) > mouse-yank-primary((mouse-2 (# > 4906 (392 . 488) 12477031 nil 4906 (49 . 33) nil (224 . 9) > (8 . 14)))) > call-interactively(mouse-yank-primary nil nil) > > Yanking it with C-y works OK. So the problem is not with > what was copied but with `mouse-yank-primary'. I amended that within a couple of minutes as follows: > Correction: Clicking mouse-1, then mouse-3 apparently > does *not* copy the selection to the kill ring.... > Without M-w, C-y doesn't work either (after selecting using > mouse-1, 3). Is there something in that report that is not clear to you? I don't have any more information about it. That's all I did and that's all I saw. Those are the two bugs that I reported. There are several other bug reports, reported by others, that also have to do with mouse selection/copying/killing/yanking. It sounded to me like they were seeing similar things, but I cannot speak for them or their platforms. Clearly, someone has been messing with the mouse recently ;-), and users on various platforms are reporting problems. I am relieved to hear people such as yourself agree that this changed behavior represents a bug and not an intentional change. That was *not* obvious, given some of the rationalization and discussion of needed "improvements" in this area. That was one of the points I made: there was no clear proposal for a specified change, followed by discussion and agreement. Just some half-discussion and then some code changes. How to know whether a given behavior change observed is part of what was intended for these "improvements" that were half talked about or just an implementation mistake? I don't know clearly what the proposed change _is_, so it's hard to judge the real change that occurred - was it intended or not? I'm glad to hear you say it was not ("no one meant to make them on Windows"). It's still not clear (to me) what _problems_ the recent changes (unintentional or intentional) were an effect (side-effect or intended effect) of trying to fix. What's the perceived problem or limitation that motivated such changes? I'm using Windows now, but I'm also interested in proposed changes that will affect Emacs on other platforms. It's not clear to me what changes are in store for us - on Windows and elsewhere. The dev process is itself broken in this regard, IMO. We should see a clear proposal, discuss it, and agree on it, before an attempt is made to implement it. Without that, there is no way to know whether some change is part of the plan or a bug. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127989930918116 (code B ref 6689); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2010 15:35:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcKHF-0004i9-2r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:35:09 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcKHC-0004hm-Ng for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:35:08 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L6000400OJ9TY00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:34:00 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.61.30]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L6000386OKNK050@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:34:00 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:33:59 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <6689@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:57:26 -0700 > > I gave concise, clear descriptions - see the original bug reports. Do you want > me to repeat the recipes? There's no need. Are these two bug reports the only ones that consider the behavior on Windows that changed because of this? > Those are the two bugs that I reported. There are several other bug reports, > reported by others, that also have to do with mouse > selection/copying/killing/yanking. It was my impression that the other reports were for platforms other than Windows. If you know about bug reports regarding Windows, please point me to their numbers. > I am relieved to hear people such as yourself agree that this changed behavior > represents a bug and not an intentional change. IMO, it is definitely a bug on Windows. > That was *not* obvious, given some of the rationalization and > discussion of needed "improvements" in this area. The intended improvements are on Posix platforms, which support both the clipboard and the primary/secondary selections. > That was one of the points I made: there was no clear proposal for a specified > change, followed by discussion and agreement. Just some half-discussion and > then some code changes. People who use Posix platforms are acutely aware of the difference between how Emacs used the clipboard and the selections, and how other applications do that. That's why they didn't see any reason to discuss the changes before making them. > The dev process is itself broken in this regard, IMO. We should see > a clear proposal, discuss it, and agree on it, before an attempt is > made to implement it. That's not how the Emacs development works. Core developers don't need any approval for installing changes; they are trusted to not break Emacs for others except in rare cases and then by mistake. How much they want to discuss before installing, is up to them. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.127990171419228 (code B ref 6689); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2010 16:15:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcKu1-000505-HO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:15:13 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcKtz-000500-CH for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:15:11 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6NGF7Ak027457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:15:08 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6NGF3JD001013; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:15:05 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 453056471279901649; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:14:09 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.216.179) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:14:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> <83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:14:07 -0700 Message-ID: <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcsqfKFC2ylD7zhtSPiSnFAMEt3AQwAA/hFQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4C49C00A.00D4:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > > I gave concise, clear descriptions - see the original bug > > reports. Do you want me to repeat the recipes? > > There's no need. Are these two bug reports the only ones that > consider the behavior on Windows that changed because of this? Dunno. They are the only two that I submitted. > > I am relieved to hear people such as yourself agree that > > this changed behavior represents a bug and not an > > intentional change. > > IMO, it is definitely a bug on Windows. > > > That was *not* obvious, given some of the rationalization and > > discussion of needed "improvements" in this area. > > The intended improvements are on Posix platforms, which support both > the clipboard and the primary/secondary selections. That wasn't clear to me. I must have missed that. But I still don't know what the intended improvements are. > > That was one of the points I made: there was no clear > > proposal for a specified change, followed by discussion > > and agreement. Just some half-discussion and > > then some code changes. > > People who use Posix platforms are acutely aware of the difference > between how Emacs used the clipboard and the selections, and how other > applications do that. That's why they didn't see any reason to > discuss the changes before making them. OK, they understand the problem. And do they all understand and agree on the solution? And what about those who are not acquainted with the problem? I still think a clear proposal that everyone can understand is important, regardless of what those in-the-know might know (or think they know). A spec helps everyone, even those who think they understand it all. > > The dev process is itself broken in this regard, IMO. We should see > > a clear proposal, discuss it, and agree on it, before an attempt is > > made to implement it. > > That's not how the Emacs development works. Core developers don't > need any approval for installing changes; they are trusted to not > break Emacs for others except in rare cases and then by mistake. How > much they want to discuss before installing, is up to them. Yes, of course they "don't need any approval" and "how much they want to discuss...is up to them". They are under no obligation to do or not do anything. That does not mean that it wouldn't be helpful to the community as a whole for proposals to be made and discussion to follow proposals. "Core developers" are under no obligation, but they live in an Emacs ecosystem, and they take advantage of that ecosystem. Users and other, non-"core" developers can be useful, and their input can help. There is no _obligation_ not to keep them in the dark and treat them like mushrooms. But that is in no one's interest, IMO. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128095461112392 (code B ref 6689); Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Aug 2010 20:43:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgkoF-0003Dp-Av for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:43:31 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgkoD-0003Dk-As for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:43:29 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o74KhtCt007117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:43:57 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o73FLEJ5022793; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:43:53 GMT Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 466713201280954627; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:43:47 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.217.40) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:43:46 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:43:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: AcsqfKFC2ylD7zhtSPiSnFAMEt3AQwAA/hFQAmTUVBA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C59D10A.0282:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) I got the impression that these problems would soon be reverted for Windows builds. But I'm now seeing some of the same problems in a build from two days ago: GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-08-02 on 3249CTO I no longer have to do an explicit M-w after selecting with the mouse, so that part has been fixed. However, I still cannot select text in one Emacs session and yank it into another Emacs session. E.g. select text with mouse in a buffer in one session, and try to yank it using mouse-2 into a buffer of another session. It does not matter whether the Emacs sessions are the same build or even the same version. I hope all of these selection regressions will be fixed soon, so I can start using a recent Emacs build - and thus be able to help by reporting other problems. It's been about a month now that no version is really usable (for me). This selection madness is more than just an inconvenience. Eli has stated (IIUC) that nothing should have been changed for Windows, but it still does not work as it did (= as it should). From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: David De La Harpe Golden Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128096413916470 (code B ref 6689); Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Aug 2010 23:22:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgnHv-0004Hb-Bl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:22:19 -0400 Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgnHu-0004HV-CD for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:22:18 -0400 Received: from [87.198.55.208] (87-198-55-208.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.55.208]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4BD468474; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:22:42 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:22:44 +0100 From: David De La Harpe Golden User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100620 Icedove/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) On 04/08/10 21:43, Drew Adams wrote: > I no longer have to do an explicit M-w after selecting with the > mouse, so that part has been fixed. Hmm. > I hope all of these selection regressions will be fixed soon, so > I can start using a recent Emacs build It is easy to revert to the old settings, as you must have gathered by this stage. > However, I still cannot select text in one Emacs session and yank it > into another Emacs session. E.g. select text with mouse in a buffer > in one session, and try to yank it using mouse-2 into a buffer of > another session. If you want emacs to copy the mouse selection to the windows clipboard and emacs kill-ring, turn on mouse-drag-copy-region. If you want emacs to insert the windows clipboard/kill-ring on mouse-2, do (global-set-key [mouse-2] 'mouse-yank-at-click) I already suggested to make the latter a boolean customisation so that it can be more easily reverted again than by doing that. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-07/msg01184.html > Eli has stated (IIUC) > that nothing should have been changed for Windows, That is not necessarily true (unless you want emacs to continue to act weirdly on w32, and believe me I get that you yourself do want that). I did respond to Eli on that point. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-07/msg01170.html From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'David De La Harpe Golden'" Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128096754717962 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:20:03 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 00:19:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoAs-0004ff-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:19:06 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoAq-0004fI-JL for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:19:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o750JWBj007660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:19:33 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o74MSaua019863; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:19:29 GMT Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 486054491280967553; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:19:13 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.216.55) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:19:13 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:19:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> Thread-Index: Acs0K/PgLa9IVDloSVe0QJ9GazAhjAAAHWJw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4C5A0392.02A6:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > > I hope all of these selection regressions will be fixed soon, so > > I can start using a recent Emacs build > > It is easy to revert to the old settings, as you must have > gathered by this stage. Great. Then please do revert Emacs to the "old" settings, and remove these regressions as soon as possible. Then we can all discuss possible improvements, if you like. > > However, I still cannot select text in one Emacs session > > and yank it into another Emacs session. E.g. select text > > with mouse in a buffer in one session, and try to yank it > > using mouse-2 into a buffer of another session. > > If you want emacs to copy the mouse selection to the windows > clipboard and emacs kill-ring, turn on mouse-drag-copy-region. If you do not want Emacs to do as it has done, then set the options that you want, to get the behavior you want for your own Emacs sessions. > If you want emacs to insert the windows clipboard/kill-ring > on mouse-2, do (global-set-key [mouse-2] 'mouse-yank-at-click) Ditto. If for your own use you want a different behavior from what Emacs has offered, then feel free to customize your copy of Emacs. What gives you the right to change the default Emacs behavior for everyone, to fit your preferences? Maybe your preferences are wonderful, but if you want to change the default behavior then you should ask emacs-devel, after making very clear what changes you propose. Honestly, I for one am open to being convinced that you have a better behavior in mind. You obviously know a lot about these things. But so far I've seen no clear proposal. All I've seen is behavior that is less useful AFAICT. Taking away the ability to copy & paste between Emacs sessions - by default - is a minus. I don't yet see a compensating plus, but I'm open to argument or demonstration. I speak only for myself, obviously, but I'm sure that others would also be interested in hearing your proposal. In the meantime, until a real discussion on the dev list and a decision to make the changes you want, please revert them. That should be easy, you say. > I already suggested to make the latter a boolean customisation so > that it can be more easily reverted again than by doing that. > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-07/msg01184.html > > > Eli has stated (IIUC) that nothing should have been changed > > for Windows, > > That is not necessarily true It's not? It seems to me that he did state that clearly. He said: In general, the behavior on MS-Windows does not need to change, because there's no primary selection on Windows. He did not say more than that AFAIK. He did not specify particular areas where he thinks it does need to change. Perhaps he will. > (unless you want emacs to continue to act weirdly on w32, and > believe me I get that you yourself do want that). This is not about what I want to do for my own use. If you want to put this in terms of what I want then put it in terms of what I want for _Emacs_, not in terms of what customized behavior I might want for myself. I do not want Emacs to change so that one can no longer select text in one Emacs session and yank it into another - and so on. Call that "weird" behavior if you like. It is the way weird old Emacs has behaved until now, and it is very useful. _I_ am not proposing to change the default Emacs behavior. Apparently you are. Or rather you're just changing it without a proposal to the community. > I did respond to Eli on that point. > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-07/msg01170.html You responded to him, but I do not see where he agreed with you. In any case, I do not agree that users (at least Windows users) should no longer be able, by _default_, to select text in one session and yank it into another session. Or at least I do not agree to such changes until I see a full proposal with a rundown of the pros & cons, including all the consequences. Maybe after weighing the pros & cons I will agree with you. For the moment I have only a poor idea of everything that is involved. All I see is changing behavior from build to build, and so far I see no advantage to any of those changes. It is not up to me to persuade you that those changes are bad. It is up to you, who are making changes, to persuade people that the changes are beneficial. If you persuade emacs-devel then I personally will either adopt the new or adapt by customizing to get back the old. It's not about my personal use. I said earlier that just making such changes willy nilly without consulting emacs-devel is not the right way to proceed. Someone replied that I should not react so quickly to such behavioral changes in recent builds, that they were just bugs that were introduced accidentally and would soon be corrected. But it's not clear to me just what is a temporary bug introduced by recent changes, and which will ultimately be fixed, and what is an intended change in behavior. None of this is clear. AFAIK you have not make a clear proposal describing the changes you want to make. Eli said: People who use Posix platforms are acutely aware of the difference between how Emacs used the clipboard and the selections, and how other applications do that. That's why they didn't see any reason to discuss the changes before making them. I would say that even people who do not use Posix currently should be brought into the loop. They might not use it, but they might still care about it and like to know about it. Why not describe the proposed changes so all can understand? In any case, wrt Windows I believe that Eli stated clearly that no behavior change was called for. For my part, I'm open to hearing about proposed changes, but I do not like what I see so far. And I do not think it is appropriate for people to discover changes without any prior discussion. If some changes just represent temporary bugs, no problem - we all introduce bugs now and then. But without a plan there is no way for us to know what is a bug and what is a new "feature". From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, 'David De La Harpe Golden' Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128096814218222 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:30:03 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 00:29:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoKT-0004jr-Jz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:29:01 -0400 Received: from pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.79]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoKR-0004jg-Q6 for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:29:00 -0400 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014221.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po45.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o750TTou031127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:29:29 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 87AD9C013; Wed, 4 Aug 2010 20:29:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> <83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:29:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:19:14 -0700") Message-ID: <878w4l297a.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: >> It is easy to revert to the old settings, as you must have gathered >> by this stage. > > Great. Then please do revert Emacs to the "old" settings, and remove > these regressions as soon as possible. Then we can all discuss > possible improvements, if you like. No, thanks. The selection changes are missing some final pieces, but the problem is not serious enough to warrant reversion. It is better to leave the development sources in place whil the wrinkles are ironed out. Thanks for your patience. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:40:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Chong Yidong'" Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , 6689@debbugs.gnu.org, 'David De La Harpe Golden' Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128096877818594 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:40:03 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 00:39:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoUk-0004pr-AE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:39:38 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgoUh-0004pl-BN for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:39:35 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o750e2fS006731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:40:03 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o750e0NR025832; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 00:40:00 GMT Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 467258621280968768; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:39:28 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.216.55) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:39:28 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org><56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com><1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com><4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> <878w4l297a.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: <7927B7459BF14F74AD211E94E7ED641D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878w4l297a.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: Acs0NUqeAljK5K7LTFmvyoC8HdDTeQAAG7jA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4C5A0862.017D:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > >> It is easy to revert to the old settings, as you must have gathered > >> by this stage. > > > > Great. Then please do revert Emacs to the "old" settings, > > and remove these regressions as soon as possible. Then we > > can all discuss possible improvements, if you like. > > No, thanks. The selection changes are missing some final pieces, but > the problem is not serious enough to warrant reversion. It > is better to leave the development sources in place whil the > wrinkles are ironed out. That's fine too. I have lots of patience for bugs being fixed. It's frustrating that it is not clear which are bugs and which are intended changes. When I mention a problem, such as not being able to yank text into a different session, I'm told how I can customize Emacs to get the missing behavior. That does not give the impression that this is recognized as a wrinkle that needs to be ironed out. That gives the clear impression that a change to the default behavior is being made and users will need to customize Emacs to get back the old behavior. It is only to that kind of change (intentional) that I am reacting - not to problems ironing out wrinkles. I reported a wrinkle and was told (IIUC) that I will need to customize Emacs from now on if I don't like that behavior. > Thanks for your patience. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 03:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 6689-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6689.128097746822311 (code B ref 6689); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 03:05:01 +0000 Received: (at 6689) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 03:04:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogqku-0005no-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:04:28 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ogqkr-0005nj-L2 for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:04:26 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L6N00400SIVW500@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 6689@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 06:04:54 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.102.143]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L6N004O0SK5Q540@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 06:04:54 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 06:04:59 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il Message-id: <83zkx1wyhw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> <83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <6689@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:43:47 -0700 > > Eli has stated (IIUC) that nothing should have been changed for > Windows, but it still does not work as it did (= as it should). Eli had other things on his plate (see the logs), so he didn't yet have time to put his money where his mouth is. I will work on this when I have time, unless someone beats me to it. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: Jason Rumney Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 05:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.128098685426185 (code B ref -1); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 05:41:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 05:40:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgtCI-0006oI-BF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:40:54 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgtCE-0006oC-GU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:40:53 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:52985) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OgtCd-0007wV-Kj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:41:15 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41125 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OgtCb-0008KQ-Nm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:41:14 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_DKIM_INVALID,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgtCZ-0003JI-3L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:41:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f41.google.com ([209.85.210.41]:43783) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OgtCY-0003J7-Th for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:41:11 -0400 Received: by pzk33 with SMTP id 33so5190393pzk.0 for ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=amG/cTiJaW+xmqCPszYjfYgHRk3GfPc3Ge1f87mmrBQ=; b=T640yFaJpCU2CpSvAIe7WNiLStOBMnBHEufQ135RiLmkMFCga+YzxfeI+bCHLtVfhW knkaOsVd2C19J7oVlfLEbkb1jzFOQEMx+LzER2t70h4BAS1lA/gCZxbEsmPmsjJ2TgXw klX6+XtswARLwTO3fHRlSujPUa9W8LmhEJ65w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hLS2ixINebLn2yvvj53/d49HmovzIqF6DwpeQo9EhqXjslL1xCznORrwu2xNChCNA2 rP+gy2qJx5UBCND8KyNKsqU49Kli4u/31A+6ZYBB1f6TRtqtB6GuYqNvJi1lAytq1oH2 ywF+OvDU3vMsCLZfZgBIw+oHoCknuvpACVFF8= Received: by 10.114.79.10 with SMTP id c10mr11803990wab.220.1280986869663; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.1.55] ([61.4.103.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 33sm17534626wad.6.2010.08.04.22.41.08 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 04 Aug 2010 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C5A4ED0.4030805@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:40:32 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.5 (---) On 05/08/2010 08:19, Drew Adams wrote: > Great. Then please do revert Emacs to the "old" settings, and remove these > regressions as soon as possible. Then we can all discuss possible improvements, > if you like. > The changes that were made have been discussed numerous times in response to user complaints over many years. The only difference now is that someone actually did something, and now we have ONE user insisting that it be put back to the broken state it was in before, because... well actually, I'm not sure I've seen you offer a reason other than "it changed therefore it is now 'unusable'". From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Jason Rumney'" , Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.128102923616066 (code B ref -1); Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:28:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2010 17:27:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh4Ds-0004B5-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:16 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh4Dq-0004B0-GP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:15 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:34843) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh4EM-0001xF-2T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:46 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54550 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oh4EK-0008A0-Kp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:45 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh4EJ-0008Pi-DH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:44 -0400 Received: from rcsinet14.oracle.com ([148.87.113.126]:25131) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oh4EJ-0008PW-2c; Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:27:43 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by rcsinet14.oracle.com (Sentrion-MP-4.0.0/Sentrion-MP-4.0.0) with ESMTP id o756qn2M028050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Aug 2010 06:52:49 GMT Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o756qHoC005023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 5 Aug 2010 06:52:18 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o749Ml2Y031136; Thu, 5 Aug 2010 06:52:14 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 486709321280991075; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:51:15 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.243.64) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:51:15 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net> <4C5A4ED0.4030805@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 23:51:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1C9FFC3B583741A2B1CCBBE45F99F1DB@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4C5A4ED0.4030805@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Acs0ZJmvDFyJHRh2RuK8D3WUKzQgmwAAFY7w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C5A5FA1.0090:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) > The changes that were made have been discussed numerous times in > response to user complaints over many years. Good to hear. In which thread can I find a proposal summarizing the changes being made? Point me to the proposal and discussion of the proposed changes, please. I would love to see where we're headed. I cannot tell the bugs from the intentional changes. Eli says that the intended changes are not for Windows anyway, which is reassuring. And he says they are obvious to people familiar with Posix selection - and as a consequence of that there was _no_ proposal or discussion. You apparently don't agree. So where's the proposal? > and now we have ONE user There are several bug reports regarding recent selection changes, only two of which I submitted (including this one). > insisting that it be put back to the broken state it was in before Seems that Yidong and Eli and... have also acknowledged that at least some of the recent selection changes are bugs - at least on Windows, which is the only platform I've spoken of from experience with the recent builds. > I'm not sure I've seen you offer a reason > other than "it changed therefore it is now 'unusable'". Perhaps you need to read again - and learn to quote fairly while you're at it. I gave specific recipes, and others have agreed that what I described are bugs. And some have been fixed. Do you find it a _feature_ that you can no longer copy from one Emacs session and yank to another (with the mouse)? Do you find it a _feature_ that mouse selection cannot be followed by `C-y' to yank the selected text (that has been fixed, I believe - except cross-session). Do you find it a _feature_ that mouse selection followed by `M-w' raises an error "No primary selection" (that too has been fixed, I believe). And so on. Were those changes "discussed numerous times in response to user complaints over many years"? I don't think so. I think they are bugs. Which is OK. But I was not sure they were not intentional changes until others confirmed that. Why? Because I know that there are some intentional changes being made wrt selection, and I do not know what they are (no proposal or summary of the changes to be made, AFAICT). I am relieved to hear from Eli that they will not (ultimately) affect Windows, but I did not know that at first. What more do you need than such bug recipes in the way of _reasons_ to fix these things? There are clearly some "wrinkles to be ironed out". And they are getting ironed out, which means that we are progressively returning to the way things were (on Windows). Why do you suppose we would be returning to that previous "broken state"? Just because we have ONE user who insists on it? From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6689 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.12816454422654 (code B ref -1); Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:38:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Aug 2010 20:37:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjeWf-0000gl-Vb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:37:22 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjeWe-0000ge-FU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:37:20 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:48579) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OjeXS-00009h-Kx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:38:10 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45545 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OjeXR-0007nn-3X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:38:09 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjeXQ-0000my-5U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:38:09 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:58843) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OjeXQ-0000mI-0c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:38:08 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o7CKc2xs002001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:38:04 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o7CH41NE008292 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:38:01 GMT Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 491527801281645449; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:37:29 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:37:29 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net><106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com><87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com><250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com><83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org><2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com><83lj92tdp4.fsf@gnu.org> <56E23E95B3284AAFA612902D84FFF581@us.oracle.com> <1DCC215D58A14474897137824F86BF4D@us.oracle.com> <4C59F644.50207@harpegolden.net><4C5A4ED0.4030805@gnu.org> <1C9FFC3B583741A2B1CCBBE45F99F1DB@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:37:29 -0700 Message-ID: <98936C6B60134899B4010FF8E0B011C2@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1C9FFC3B583741A2B1CCBBE45F99F1DB@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: Acs0ZJmvDFyJHRh2RuK8D3WUKzQgmwAAFY7wAXlPReA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) FYI - I still see this bug in the latest Windows build I have, which is from 8/09: GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-08-09 on 3249CTO You cannot copy using the mouse from one Emacs session and yank it into another Emacs session. This is a regression wrt Emacs 23 and prior. Users should be able to use the mouse to copy and yank between Emacs sessions (including between sessions of different Emacs versions). This bug is still open, so I assume you agree that it is a bug, and it is not an intentional behavior change. I have no problem waiting for a fix - this is just an FYI/reminder. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:55:30 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#6689: closed (Re: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection) Message-ID: References: <83fwyhtcv1.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 6689 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 6689@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 15:49:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1281800942-21853-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1281800942-21853-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 6689@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 6689: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D6689 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1281800942-21853-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 6689-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2010 15:48:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkIyf-0005gI-H9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:48:57 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkIyd-0005gB-5r for 6689-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:48:56 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L7500J00FXGPK00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 6689-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:49:48 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.102.143]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L7500IUIFZ0HZL0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:49:48 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:47:46 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#6689: 24.0.50; No primary selection In-reply-to: <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83fwyhtcv1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C48B62A.2030709@harpegolden.net> <106E1806DA3141AD99F7CC3D43D62BE8@us.oracle.com> <87wrsnkvr3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <250BB20D91B04A20AE93C6D4C07C2004@us.oracle.com> <83vd86trgq.fsf@gnu.org> <2191175D5DFE4CECA85ECAB584756201@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6689-done Cc: 6689-done@debbugs.gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <6689@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:57:26 -0700 > > Here again is the one for this bug report (#6689): > > > emacs -Q > > > > In another Emacs session, select some text in any way > > and hit `M-w'. > > > > Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the > > error "No primary selection". For example, try to yank the > > text into the prompt at `report-emacs-bug' using mouse-2. > > Note: C-y works, but mouse-2 does not work. This bug should now be fixed (revno 101080). If the cure turns out to be worse than the disease, please reopen this bug. If, OTOH, there are other issues with selections and cut/paste on Windows due to the latest changes, please submit separate bug reports. > Here's the other original report (#6694) recipe (again): > > > I click mouse-1 at the left of some text and then > > mouse-3 at the right of it, to select it (a Lisp symbol). > > Then I try to yank it using `mouse-2': > > > > Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument > > char-or-string-p #) > > mouse-yank-primary((mouse-2 (# > > 4906 (392 . 488) 12477031 nil 4906 (49 . 33) nil (224 . 9) > > (8 . 14)))) > > call-interactively(mouse-yank-primary nil nil) > > > > Yanking it with C-y works OK. So the problem is not with > > what was copied but with `mouse-yank-primary'. > > I amended that within a couple of minutes as follows: > > > Correction: Clicking mouse-1, then mouse-3 apparently > > does *not* copy the selection to the kill ring.... > > Without M-w, C-y doesn't work either (after selecting using > > mouse-1, 3). This bug was already fixed and Chong closed it. ------------=_1281800942-21853-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2010 15:06:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasc-0006Eg-SU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:06:43 -0400 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasb-0006Eb-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:06:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:41232) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Obat2-0000Hl-M9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:08 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56980 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Obat1-0000Z6-2i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:08 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasz-0006tx-Je for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:06 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:62926) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Obasz-0006tJ-Do for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:07:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6LF6xHi005495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:02 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6LF6mxQ016925 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:06:49 GMT Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 424074861279724765; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:05 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:04 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; No primary selection Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acso5j07sXtraAGfQlmsfM185ritSw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4C470D12.019E:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) emacs -Q In another Emacs session, select some text in any way and hit `M-w'. Click mouse-2 in the new Emacs session. You get the error "No primary selection". For example, try to yank the text into the prompt at `report-emacs-bug' using mouse-2. Note: C-y works, but mouse-2 does not work. I believe there have been a bunch of bug reports about selection recently, but I haven't followed them. It seems pretty broken, in any case. Please restore selection, copying/killing, and yanking to what it was like before. It was NOT broken - please do not "fix" it. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-07-19 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' ------------=_1281800942-21853-1--