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[72.10.149.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o9-20020a0ccb09000000b0065b229ecb8dsm4315506qvk.3.2023.10.09.19.02.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Oct 2023 19:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: guix-patches@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 22:01:56 -0400 Message-ID: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.41.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a; envelope-from=maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Maxim Cournoyer X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with extra responsibilities. Change-Id: I27cafcb351f68057b7882198e72e9bf66ccc1262 --- doc/contributing.texi | 6 +++++- 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi index 864190b119..082a288704 100644 --- a/doc/contributing.texi +++ b/doc/contributing.texi @@ -2030,7 +2030,11 @@ Commit Access consensus and make decisions based on consensus. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read -@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses the +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code +to resolve the deadlock. The following sections explain how to get commit access, how to be ready to push commits, and the policies and community expectations for commits base-commit: 7937c8827b8d23347a3159b4696335bd19fc17aa -- 2.41.0 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 11 06:38:03 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2023 10:38:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37614 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqWbL-0000UP-AZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 06:38:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]:38244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqWbG-0000SX-KS for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 06:37:59 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4064e3c7c07so9917815e9.1 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:37:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697020651; x=1697625451; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=CFtF0T54HODntRLTd1RrCaENRUQreGy+jFy//2EX5vs=; b=m6Af+gbLwdGZrK5mL2nIf2duVV2Kf+2EDnMi+yGtwDbZu3I2hAf2iTkr5k56wlSUhW JhZnZUcLjFTJHfmVB0nKPhbZFuexbfZJc+ZXp9ufKJoPiFUWv+Md1AcXn+6C0gyIoUZ6 JgEdgu/1xjCm+lQTbr3ZKJk1oVMQApYn50xkCvb6SZOpPREBItISrulKC4kAeXlBCPwd E1TzmPtrqEPwO6J3CEPDYzfbLqkBToRTfNjtfhr2uQ6SvFksmm4AqtphmUFypFyB0JjC g4sSUkEhmUDK4b5eJcKt8uoG7rdVsh4yz5UVSv5vPFGp7ytcZfMBZXrr1JRp8YIadAc1 KEVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697020651; x=1697625451; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CFtF0T54HODntRLTd1RrCaENRUQreGy+jFy//2EX5vs=; b=faKAZXp20OUvXK56Mwvw57qYaLqNROErmh3SEVF8MXh+RA1U79nAixom2Vi90U428G doz4+xGDG/HdX0SyU5oXH67hYORON+KOL8xMMePIKbrbGYw5YqgB+q7EZMHj8FCfEEvq V3SwooXiYOmmHgH65Eaxu4jPun1oFcDYfxsLWv/19M0nTvGDJtOmPf+OBTYom0ksp9mR WuEn2Agze/I1r50xeaJev3PKjwt4evApnrgO92NHQrEtUpL7We108C1YlnDIjZ+T/U8k 9NL/Nyy/c4+eeIRU1jjynA9lkyHNMmd7z0ubkwNc9ARdmlzMQlSRHxn6+GsryxILXHDY jAdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzrC24Z9GjfDEq/wSeM7EWCT7fxu+aPfTsK4IYA1C3sUhF7raOc cQd06Zn3CpoqMZhTRIBuCHs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHiohPBQ2+iPDvdISnvgyZAuBDoY5h/u8QMDvUyIHmguS8S4MJq08xvSC1Fjf+AmfIL6u/jqA== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cc99:0:b0:401:7d3b:cc84 with SMTP id p25-20020a7bcc99000000b004017d3bcc84mr18259998wma.0.1697020651092; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x9-20020a05600c21c900b003fefe70ec9csm18679883wmj.10.2023.10.11.03.37.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 11 Oct 2023 03:37:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Maxim Cournoyer , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 11:30:10 +0200 Message-ID: <867cntld5p.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Maxim Cournoyer X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Maxim, On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 at 22:01, Maxim Cournoyer w= rote: > -@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. > +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses the > +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, > +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a > +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code > +to resolve the deadlock. I would propose: + one sentence for summarizing what =E2=80=9Cconsensus=E2=80=9D means, rou= ghly. + one sentence for clarifying the =E2=80=9Cblock=E2=80=9D situation. + the link for more details. Well, concretely, something along this wording: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code to resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read . --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 11 17:10:51 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2023 21:10:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqgTh-0007Ws-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:10:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqgTb-0007WV-Ln for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:10:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qqgTA-00032E-2R; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:10:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=t21jnmYJQ5DhvBZukiIjFyKrXW0J5PEpbUyN/q0l+s8=; b=X+p5ZqkI7bRb+fDsa6ck LUjUGEo48BZx5QRWebNgOmyyFjt/Xyjy10L9JaLEK6ba8E6SaPutUqIFLW0cj/LMGK/AgfHqosviE h+krdqro/8c9Ai+UnJVj9hKugMHiM5Ymxa0850SDKwauEaloOQY+8EWaqUuB2dP6Sy7NfcNoxMGnm Xj5jAWdJvoXSDsWN2RKDZeAd908ncEQSWRCevLbbiJffrxQgI0ZX+QEyJGq5wgRZFdfu2zhYJaoLg nAIkI92j4WblY7KAUPd3HWoHuK3dOS9v8zL512+ih1KUuM3tQagxok4bver5dhiXkPjfnH0ziT2/l siIdoBuRM4Imhw==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Mon, 9 Oct 2023 22:01:56 -0400") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:10:13 +0200 Message-ID: <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi! Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with > extra responsibilities. > > Change-Id: I27cafcb351f68057b7882198e72e9bf66ccc1262 (Oh, what does this line mean?) > +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses the > +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, > +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a > +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code > +to resolve the deadlock. I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a volun= teer writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this case? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. PS: We really need a process for changes to our collective rules. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 12 13:09:27 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2023 17:09:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44214 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqzBf-0004OD-E0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:09:27 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]:50473) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqzBa-0004Nv-Un for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:09:26 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7741b18a06aso82356485a.1 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697130534; x=1697735334; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=3nGZpYh63m2Ro4RRz3yNGx1QSwKmZI/bomwWux6f2l0=; b=Xi4FzppWyPOzkSgcNrPyWsNyeKAE/5p3ypSKyDHAzzTCev1VlKmvsFvob19mcNY1pa c50E/QLQbPyJkm0aknhZk3r807p/+GUSd5ZJprBW/ijXCpzxF2BboB34vFS7egM8w1g5 qpXZXubXw4ZHIOmtXslSIzAzgsSjubPNcr6TTMCvgcuIN9SHJYVLTl1T1G+q84jnbgm5 Fz1ed7SKbBXxZR8Kt+eb17Vp+X7mYJ/tSvFKoX/gwKSMxg6SWB2wAbzOO5hjTQ7p2FaL eb0RLUchw/TS1wbFhVSigZUS85hscb5ZS2nxjUMDAxvasZI7+Ysx0gH+KtpSenvJ3c9k xipQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697130534; x=1697735334; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3nGZpYh63m2Ro4RRz3yNGx1QSwKmZI/bomwWux6f2l0=; b=w2wuynD6c02NjJ3h9rMQeVE7HKEu97CBKhE/mk2YwIczg7/5lKyAofzRO8YXcSmNaP O4GyjxwmXBj9w1SEBBERCwLgc+IsR4Y8p/myRK0hoAuOww/r9DyBnd8T0Hs8dmNSbaSL TTiBYbe1nD2Ilv5zGAQ2xB7V5ApH2HKpq8agnSHkCf/iniQkaYCJRuBbJL/uR10+v62J MUdsoyTyHxzAeXVGuWhiDXobH4PbOcDgtYCzX6w+/G1ghiKYlC7XlZIf6NQxEfLKMZSu FyZ+/zMzfLMJ3b7LDYYFBusshfB4b2f/uqvr59amZwSNBSIoOUGEzNwSoMAo6yTWDLV8 yLoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxf6phGfP5fdr1Q641DvFlaXXDT8kCAitXHwo3b1BMaXMz//gUn uu00NrTR7gI2EfCw4EAb0Y5WVOw5NbQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEn1SsYgHGMIrj4eX6Zt9A867hkqEEGUXwzuES9lY6K4OOhMFfU8ofI38mbk7S+UHtDtfjzNw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:29c9:b0:777:6d:b877 with SMTP id s9-20020a05620a29c900b00777006db877mr20193248qkp.68.1697130534674; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-128-66.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.128.66]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r4-20020a05620a03c400b0076ef004f659sm6196814qkm.1.2023.10.12.10.08.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:10:13 +0200") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:08:53 -0400 Message-ID: <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi! > > Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > >> * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with >> extra responsibilities. >> >> Change-Id: I27cafcb351f68057b7882198e72e9bf66ccc1262 > > (Oh, what does this line mean?) That's the commit-msg hook I've sent in bug#66027; in a nutshell it'd add traceability between what's been reviewed in Debbugs to what's in our Git (allowing to take actions on fully merged series, say, close the issue in Debbugs). >> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses the >> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, >> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code >> +to resolve the deadlock. > > I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a vol= unteer > writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no > obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance > because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). > > How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this cas= e? It's a good question. Hopefully there'd be more than 2 persons participating in the conversation, in which case there may be some consensus emerging that the proposed change should be rejected. If there's no consensus at all and nobody is willing to iterate on the idea, then the issue should also be abandoned. I submitted this change hoping to encourage active participation toward consensus, and to "raise the bar" for using a block, which should seldom be used according to the consensus guide. It'd be easy to otherwise abuse it, at the detriment of the group. --=20 Thanks, Maxim From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 12 15:18:05 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2023 19:18:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr1C9-0000Vk-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:18:05 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:40375) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr1C4-0000V5-2Y for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:18:03 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-32163c3ece5so137944f8f.1 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:17:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697138251; x=1697743051; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Y/lcf9M8otatPCht9ocTEAFRvwIDCNLNUxf+lawIMN4=; b=aJ0rpM0uJFDiewgrS9G22OPNxaKGrfxECD9NRm61F6eWqoPawOJHin17pcacMbmAaV B2RT+WmSJ94kjgmvspWJaygGxyXyziOaT72jtIomKVZEfvzsiLivrHDnV5SWSXUOpULx 4AodmLEcdDCy+l7Fumw2VtXj7SdLN1I/D2I6Mw7JNxl5xubzq1ZhsUmGgwzq+xAK2LDT ZqRKH/6rkL4/dyKKfGoKcYtzpjX8dr5QlM/U1aL2s2IzFBU35B+/PnIOayhYpkxhc9U3 SO+TM6OpGIzfTmWLd9YqIijF2Dk7APo7ldvAaG5VbJhJ9Ro5IzAZdkN9H05kHT22uYhk UZxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697138251; x=1697743051; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Y/lcf9M8otatPCht9ocTEAFRvwIDCNLNUxf+lawIMN4=; b=fwX/pUqR8Q/F3p/erFgvYQjlaBgn5Q27xI8CSSqkR5U/mrAVAUIAALoQDA2AANcc62 lukI/SfItMOMmIhGDMFGdWLIvir/b2IskUMOTMnHIPfoT6sFLWXo0HAPlK50pBbH209S uDq6zvCS4Y9P3Mo+1NrlQsC6w1tLL/4D1qe9QYzMk4EQK1vM/bTuaR2V25rRt8abqzWz bLJEb5ZtzpgCyTQ5eyiWwjAvZIF4UhcJ04J0gCRLRnXasYjep4ULaH+8YPHcKH55+hZS g72mc0N2KqpX4xCH25Jc7qE1lee3IwKpRaZX2a++ik5qRk7UD7rpai5Wpv9/i1tvMZ3Q F26w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx7A8Lgkf2xSiNjOUcIzB4nIgKmD4ddwneheWzBDIkrMxPSZ35l uhGxIiMu2w3JywBRidbA6p2h/2o31FI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF/jx9iap3uGfa8lwhHJrfc+f7l0kUtAkTCAcguJd08JUZaB0bJ5eay77lZdRbaZcawjCvlmA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:58c2:0:b0:324:87d3:873d with SMTP id o2-20020a5d58c2000000b0032487d3873dmr21250576wrf.3.1697138251374; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q8-20020a05600000c800b0032415213a6fsm18979035wrx.87.2023.10.12.12.17.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:17:22 +0200 Message-ID: <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 at 23:10, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses the >> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, >> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/code >> +to resolve the deadlock. > > I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a vol= unteer > writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no > obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance > because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). > > How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this cas= e? Using the wording I am proposing [1], the case would be solved by =E2=80=9Csignificant concerns=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Ccan live with=E2=80=9D, = =E2=80=9Cactively=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cspecial responsibility for finding alternatives=E2=80=9D. Well, this wording [1] tries to capture Maxim=E2=80=99s answer [2], I guess. Somehow, it is an attempt to 1. summarize what consensus means, and 2. clarify that blocking also implies actively being part of the resolution. Maybe, what is missing is explicitly mention the status quo case. In my mind it is covered by =E2=80=9Cfinding alternatives=E2=80=9D but maybe it w= ould be better to explicit mention it. What do you think about this, --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, proposing ideas/code or detailing the status quo to resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read . --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- ? Cheers, simon 1: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking come= s with. Simon Tournier Wed, 11 Oct 2023 11:30:10 +0200 id:867cntld5p.fsf@gmail.com https://issues.guix.gnu.org//66430 https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/867cntld5p.fsf@gmail.com https://yhetil.org/guix/867cntld5p.fsf@gmail.com 2: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking come= s with. Maxim Cournoyer Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:08:53 -0400 id:87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com https://issues.guix.gnu.org//66430 https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com https://yhetil.org/guix/87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 12 16:19:04 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2023 20:19:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44342 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr299-0002xv-9T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:19:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]:41149) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr292-0002x8-IC for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 16:19:02 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-405e48d8e72so3441035e9.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:18:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697141908; x=1697746708; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=tWJ7vL0Ae7JcW+sFe4qWp3ZoIr38SRBpICkCSyVhWSs=; b=dpIOUscO5/TIXcWqyHLU3Wiq7FsgnTWpFQSUYLut/Qj3fKLM2dKMw2WWxHTsYmibF1 Cmddcv9Cyf7BCGbOO0cFfBR9LeYlGH4Wp7HbF9iKMsFH+mhsgrGUy48FhVMS9O+7vEKp IXXRiMM8BbAjybPyWYdHz9SQExx42VW2Q/Bb1/cUYIfYQfxAcPYGnXFMGtQodUTiWYoO TrM8PrcRQycEs/i36x6zrKmWEeNAdXIPpSCeD6gj+6+Jmc/KGPuF1Y8LmTczURVLZUvQ PsGr2xHf1CvOky51/r75akbfutKPlC/JQgGNTcEZ394983k+rITnrp10AmcaD3NOKRvy mf/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697141908; x=1697746708; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tWJ7vL0Ae7JcW+sFe4qWp3ZoIr38SRBpICkCSyVhWSs=; b=lqiswBJltZOaMKCmwR4Qq+GguMfsqmrdx8gq8bgWrFUCrU6OOXEdlHLTlxxi3udGXg TmbDEejyZj2JiMPajIwTKNcsuChJYpnbfvwMmiPgB5IPRm2Ffypn4586dvmxxY3ujWQn yPortmydoDex6xyOTa72UOvAuPi6/M9pzaN1XFkHbZhHQLc7MmPnRIKVCI01/7cap2gE 2mJ6k5BX7Oep1ob3lax/1WKueLD/GQD1DeV8gXF8/iHEVqYU2ZggyIrJP5yYq2peWuGE 0fTeTOTG3EDNBBD1zRUU5oq/cfeei9Kv4bgC01deUwbsGD1wHE8dn/UdGnT+qq3beEE9 sZJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwJudUNcVo0dXtn1ELKxe4fE9Aazku+VZthaQ4jZM6XEN48iuX/ l9Gyi5GPA9lmMOTexwHOY7VHZpCQMVY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGcY/yhVzRS/5Hgauqk/euSwS6CokOw95bGAvD/c6Ltx9ygst9qn56szwa7wQr1OxwSTjfQ7g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3b9a:b0:3fe:21a6:a18 with SMTP id n26-20020a05600c3b9a00b003fe21a60a18mr22495211wms.3.1697141907794; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p16-20020a1c7410000000b0040586360a36sm684260wmc.17.2023.10.12.13.18.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:18:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Wording v2 (was Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with.) In-Reply-To: <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 22:18:24 +0200 Message-ID: <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Re-reading the complete section (and other sections around), I am proposing a tiny variation of the wording I sent earlier. On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 21:17, Simon Tournier wro= te: >>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses t= he >>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, >>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/co= de >>> +to resolve the deadlock. Instead of Maxim=E2=80=99s wording above, I am proposing: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A contributor, without or with commit access, wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, proposing ideas/code or detailing the status quo to resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read . --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- >> A situation I have in mind is this: a volunteer >> writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no >> obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance >> because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). >> >> How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this ca= se? Case 1: a volunteer writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no obvious solution Question: How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility? Answer: Be engaging, + propose an alternative: idea or code + explain the status quo Since there is no obvious solution, the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility = =E2=80=93 propose an alternative or explain the status quo =E2=80=93 helps in iterati= ng. Question: How would one interpret the participant=E2=80=99s responsibility? Answer: Be engaging: + explain why they cannot live with the proposed change + propose an alternative: idea or code At last resort, since there is no obvious solution, and if there is no consensus =E2=80=93 someone cannot live with and has significant concerns = =E2=80=93 then it is up to maintainers to resolve by =C2=AB Making decisions, about code or anything, when consensus cannot be reached. We=E2=80=99ve probably never encountered such a situation before, though! =C2=BB Case 2: a volunteer writes a review rejecting the change altogether (for instance because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or to= ol) Question: How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility? Answer: Be engaging: + explain the status quo Please note that it is a group effort. Therefore, if other people do not participate in the discussion and there is no consensus, it means this case falls under =C2=AB Informal hierarchy =C2=BB. That=E2=80=99s ano= ther question and orthogonal with reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility, IMHO. WDYT? Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 13 00:02:40 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2023 04:02:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr9No-0000Gg-Cx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:40 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]:55368) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr9Nl-0000GO-8z for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:39 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5a7af52ee31so20551677b3.2 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697169728; x=1697774528; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=7yW6tVUH0mzmUxzlqjz29FRVqBBdT1arpuhkvVT3doU=; b=PTyJYx35Y99EYC2KRHtKe2t8oC4m5N3xtOE13GOsBMK6p12TtFnPr/P8IbwjwEbZ3E QH6PFRE3i2TR9eD81uqQkFHrNyDvSzrkYprP4lYvzApMLbdDjjFnKhX5NKVx/HdAn2sI uMK2HMb+HTii5KMXV451+q762rfnAWZLB6B7Rawr4Lh138KghbQd6OrFcTAjG4MNGAKm YhKJQPRmguto1LuwSlEpyBr6I5MrLfYs+3EJrnyChmmS15tw1FRaZK1Clz0C3JoYWupR xYOtCVApKw2CO5GUdFQ389MbwlT2CHY5bf/BDy++QoBQfCsvrun8QvxF9955ehZ43wF1 CsGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697169728; x=1697774528; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7yW6tVUH0mzmUxzlqjz29FRVqBBdT1arpuhkvVT3doU=; b=BMhuiV4IQD0+kJfcq6gm668cNaqiStjHbkqzu0lu59szsrEQWM/x/maasnIDYTnksM GwPsNfCh8NHaQHfgArqnXk4VuJcl+UU/iyQ0XVVjnO/5UI3cOzISZZAR5qvjCx089Tia ZyiL99sBxWahH4Bshc84beUCSFe7riYUsPTZrteIBKG5D1qZ1ZFLVKCGYjoiK/R1MzvZ 6UhcMraX0NkozpwyQKRsQlzr28UxNjsZmijtSnVGoXKtSsIEXl/dAkqefzsnj/xp6LiY +y3pQtStyloHUGtbrSs4Dv4hufgRxib4WwK86Z1vbz5YAVBZMRWj0WByRdmZMjd2NnsU NOCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxHQLE4LqYobLtX9JzvpFlKtF6Jm3w4Qi1A47JVPSOShqNRK3kJ o6uoFdjEyqPVtFM0xDvJXomZit1uMfYJaA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE06Mpd85OAp+v3a9Zx77C4L08s+qwebKM6sA+Z8q2kQ402+FlhxvDYrDYCRUL49/++JsA3dA== X-Received: by 2002:a81:5488:0:b0:583:c917:7ff0 with SMTP id i130-20020a815488000000b00583c9177ff0mr23282617ywb.51.1697169728384; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-128-66.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.128.66]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ee2-20020a0562140a4200b0065b5306565esm347903qvb.112.2023.10.12.21.02.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Simon Tournier Subject: Re: [bug#66430] Wording v2 (was Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with.) In-Reply-To: <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> (Simon Tournier's message of "Thu, 12 Oct 2023 22:18:24 +0200") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:06 -0400 Message-ID: <87y1g75fwh.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Simon and Ludovic, Simon Tournier writes: > Hi, > > Re-reading the complete section (and other sections around), I am > proposing a tiny variation of the wording I sent earlier. > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 21:17, Simon Tournier w= rote: > >>>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses = the >>>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block varian= t, >>>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/c= ode >>>> +to resolve the deadlock. > > Instead of Maxim=E2=80=99s wording above, I am proposing: > > It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, > to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using > consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live > with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns > and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for > everyone. A contributor, without or with commit access, wishing to > block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding > alternatives, proposing ideas/code or detailing the status quo to > resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and > understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > . I like it, but I admit I wasn't sure what "detailing the status quo" meant until I read your examples below. Perhaps it could be reworded to "explain the rationale for the status quo" ? Thanks, Maxim=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 13 00:02:58 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2023 04:02:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr9O5-0000H9-PW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:58 -0400 Received: from mail-ua1-x931.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::931]:61531) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qr9O3-0000Gx-EI for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:56 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-x931.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7b64810aebdso235064241.2 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697169747; x=1697774547; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=7yW6tVUH0mzmUxzlqjz29FRVqBBdT1arpuhkvVT3doU=; b=R+5YKkOwgYEEXv02fFLpewEE6pPGmQYETDpczAOMB3im2ix+u9hSBsL7Gqtli93sxc tQYeiBBBM+fEDUHLiApeldx527A7VXbF+g7yaj6oXRP5DAusmj7IIe/30OInw4JF06g1 fjRfLdIhSupvDrJkLGbNDD5ZgnEgmcy1eTh9t4i18KvCTMpa3CYPB5das5obINf6VqwA 358N0rxOC4mgNv3ZwTRyOCnkxw3ib5ytWfoKkVF+iu0MZ1TyIDcguBjU9SCp/x08lxxv UfslQXpl/buuNedSgSQa8PR9vVjQqDRbGPmdr5b1Yaa6871Xu0tNCdIjWt0xwcjedvcd XlkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697169747; x=1697774547; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7yW6tVUH0mzmUxzlqjz29FRVqBBdT1arpuhkvVT3doU=; b=MYC9GWse6HfGC0PJn1AiTQyvr9iolyHIpEvYy6gO0DGzX/oJtCSY8uTNf7pj3oNSvz A+ABLGIGN/G6PZ3hnq3yTDPrWzp7qUYxMSRT/Xd0Jnpw6zB0Gq50kCXvFJ1r3QqL+LOu IalLqaSZsL/oPnbDJpbhGyG/sz01Qt3bMRLl9sxgsZCdKy24gBh/ykVmFBFtn/17qgSg CYY4cV2q9uRCqDn7rWcuojkNwtM4DG1qI4Ld9HABXGG/ZNk5sYQzkEsyxmSLtZuC9GAe UMPtxXA4pZZKvNoPOBQeKEq3C9adS3gC/fI0mwrtlVAAAWgG/WDZwOWZY09r2HKitTVb LhtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxhj+arBpqsaw25ND3RioHcspVjuZHN+otXdFnS8MXdBKfn7R8g exoA7o2Ge4j4/HCNKU7Z4nMnvQVnnKXa3A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHH28OrMKarbMKDcVvvBz2MblFAehacf1xllYtd1zlqdoIe1vWz9nE5zGzFOQQwTEdn8X/Fog== X-Received: by 2002:a67:e309:0:b0:452:c729:e9df with SMTP id j9-20020a67e309000000b00452c729e9dfmr22353742vsf.33.1697169746815; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-128-66.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.128.66]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j24-20020ac84f98000000b00419c40a0d70sm306312qtw.54.2023.10.12.21.02.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:02:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Simon Tournier Subject: Re: [bug#66430] Wording v2 (was Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with.) In-Reply-To: <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> (Simon Tournier's message of "Thu, 12 Oct 2023 22:18:24 +0200") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:02:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87wmvr5fvy.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Simon and Ludovic, Simon Tournier writes: > Hi, > > Re-reading the complete section (and other sections around), I am > proposing a tiny variation of the wording I sent earlier. > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 at 21:17, Simon Tournier w= rote: > >>>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses = the >>>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block varian= t, >>>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/c= ode >>>> +to resolve the deadlock. > > Instead of Maxim=E2=80=99s wording above, I am proposing: > > It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, > to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using > consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live > with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns > and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for > everyone. A contributor, without or with commit access, wishing to > block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding > alternatives, proposing ideas/code or detailing the status quo to > resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and > understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > . I like it, but I admit I wasn't sure what "detailing the status quo" meant until I read your examples below. Perhaps it could be reworded to "explain the rationale for the status quo" ? Thanks, Maxim=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 13 02:52:10 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2023 06:52:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrC1p-0005JR-OB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:52:09 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-xf34.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34]:38183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrC1m-0005J1-T6 for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 02:52:07 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-65b20c37916so2937016d6.1 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:51:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697179898; x=1697784698; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=I5VpS0qbgh+thI+ZBOHOMqjB1WSiZLh/DRKwPKB8lA4=; b=gWVlgyhHFcDNqPIgihB7Sthg8rpdHFtP1Fg96mQqqu8Amf9Gl8fpJUQrFPzo1j9MZs m/aoGJnd7aE+gJr7u7fCmyPPJ1SL7+ZICq/aJRiNf6Ar3Z1HdlUcEeRrcNRSpB0lkjSy QKp4J3d0jKKcy6d1hsqxqyVE2CUEEIxbXQaJyXScaI13RkRuVC49EJBdLRfCvz+QCcv7 3G7AJ+sq1BPUWWZIAtLy0yRel9SSbHOpRocYmrUAsyXrkIJXR2N/suM185vQ7nlIZmrQ g/aDa8M/1uCmJE9cUgUJ+w7KWKEnBYo42R/rRJOK+HzHxwGblLaawkB+9lW/m52gPXT6 Vu7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697179898; x=1697784698; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=I5VpS0qbgh+thI+ZBOHOMqjB1WSiZLh/DRKwPKB8lA4=; b=EsEJs8CyXWg8NdU7vWFabhlSkawhl2ID90jcfLQFxxTEQf1bCgoWXIeY/jxj1nOyxG vqTwYr9keB7SyYqvvfnHk9HDVgjKKpdjviK575oXlx4qOMN0mo3Gb4WKleH/rMcZgToQ rvAahN+LB0HV+U1Ueznox6S3epTQkUvZdJ4XFrujcutI/luUG9FEHvGvNnFNsJIHpsvy m9btUBR/6mfEabi8WWVXIXr/qVmCIYavVESAyABHaZleTeQR2uesikG5Rk9xya1JmzUL mhaYLXvO49U9jdquAnC1xJBWoyoPQFe84bdHIHU8QPyQ+5PsdSOGNMqOoH2erSFnsYzo QW3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzskchgwJ9WU8ia7/Re4gI9KmOxdTjmPifw0/LSmeIhu/4K4L+x n0cpkbRZIgqXcC8RwcitPXD180VsePrd3EAMRgI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF6QKv1REI8vidp8zRHQ3kCHmBEA4uEscHGsoAcHZlHIKN8EunJbqiKjAjsFLiwtG3IDBUoyagAXm1Av90Z06E= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2303:b0:668:e31b:5576 with SMTP id gc3-20020a056214230300b00668e31b5576mr28047400qvb.1.1697179898407; Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:51:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <86mswnzm4d.fsf@gmail.com> <86fs2fzjan.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1g75fwh.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87y1g75fwh.fsf@gmail.com> From: Simon Tournier Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 08:51:26 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bug#66430] Wording v2 (was Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with.) To: Maxim Cournoyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 at 06:02, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > > It is expected from all contributors, and even more so from committers, > > to help build consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using > > consensus, we are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live > > with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns > > and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for > > everyone. A contributor, without or with commit access, wishing to > > block a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding > > alternatives, proposing ideas/code or detailing the status quo to > > resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and > > understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > > . > > I like it, but I admit I wasn't sure what "detailing the status quo" > meant until I read your examples below. Perhaps it could be reworded to > "explain the rationale for the status quo" ? Yes, that's better. :-) Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 13 10:40:11 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2023 14:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47056 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrJKk-0004ku-T3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:40:11 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]:55504) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrJKg-0004jz-Nb for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:40:09 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-77574dec71bso143560485a.2 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 07:39:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697207978; x=1697812778; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc :to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s2up1JiGnugYWdSGerKY+KvjstafptoNw+7h9yobloE=; b=YeEttkr0CeyQeSMJv13kC/0MLan/+V3bSIhMYioxhz/ThhSNQ2tpJItueG7ObdUSji AdgiX+g05/6i/3f3aQVl+DrJZLES8e2/oTHFJJiUSzm1NkLXMKz1Hcn9v9jw6mSwjiTg NIXHXgdrhQyuaQVTOzaOUXvZD7sfYUo+FHWJo/GHBGJwmll0+RZ3QM4x4jC6GbwONZol 8HT99bk+c9Fc1fmbZKMkW1v2TGlJKtlgjMv9wBXuonZ/dp3dOON3cAeSUYfk1Ke4+Au7 5/XZ15U/3EtK9giQF7CQCwuBLz6hRgf3jX6KfQ/3IaBt2Cnm3GQVpuDd7dYBhuAV+AfY ketA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697207978; x=1697812778; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc :to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=s2up1JiGnugYWdSGerKY+KvjstafptoNw+7h9yobloE=; b=F7CdXmt11GWBgxgAFiCn0AzjArQSi+/kvRLKliaft+y6d3tWosjFjxl7KlXX0QxAxy uwxy3/8OC9a92OTcnIoacBpSvOYzfppEeST0dUu8gkSTV8mD4IrfKqEb7TxMAwp5aNZ0 hSGMyEaf+ZjUeGTUYJOFWLgfjTkdHgTp7NyuxeaQEPpKjYJoiXLtS4N28XSnHjlP0vdj DjZ5jNc8Uy1feeE/Fbh9czODajkNhB9O6vAZ5xynI73wa7+SIuwIvzJA+FguwIaztu6F P1xTdo3TenJjKMQihnISIEMMp4PyY3g1DGvP/3Sr8k8zf+BUrN+5MmnSOXSlnR6oyEtG hoSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw6pK9UcVEmNYcd5gXcnskjAmNNX5hcocaV8g0N9djoobd5ELY7 v3a5O9bdynpSV9JvBO5d9qTl10RPqKk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGES7lst0BlXPafqQhFd7NNYShgfmQ5no3lpVV+WudtGbktVoMaScgrOG1WY9sWZo+kLrTIjg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1786:b0:775:673d:3ac6 with SMTP id ay6-20020a05620a178600b00775673d3ac6mr23518637qkb.47.1697207977898; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 07:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dsl-156-181.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.156.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cx11-20020a05620a51cb00b0077402573fb4sm671366qkb.124.2023.10.13.07.39.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 13 Oct 2023 07:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [PATCH v2] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 10:38:32 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.41.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer , Simon Tournier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with extra responsibilities. Reviewed-by: Simon Tournier --- Changes in v2: - Reword per suggestions doc/contributing.texi | 12 +++++++++++- 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi index 864190b119..a18ee00845 100644 --- a/doc/contributing.texi +++ b/doc/contributing.texi @@ -2030,7 +2030,17 @@ Commit Access consensus and make decisions based on consensus. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read -@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. It is expected from +all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build +consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we +are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It +implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A +participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility +for finding alternatives, proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale +for the status quo to resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus +decision making means and understand its finer details, you are +encouraged to read . The following sections explain how to get commit access, how to be ready to push commits, and the policies and community expectations for commits base-commit: 4ec6fd7817ec4073547fd71309374a293d7c436c -- 2.41.0 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 13 14:30:34 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Oct 2023 18:30:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47402 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrMvi-0001Ig-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:30:34 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::330]:38083) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qrMvd-0001IM-2S for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 14:30:33 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-405d70d19bcso5182145e9.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697221800; x=1697826600; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=i8DYq7tdsLlISv0QlwmGjSqA8KIET6zKkMQ+aYPfe8s=; b=gSKSxyIA+1PofIcu8VRz4Ktq7znsu02nnPW6mXBDuQ/uJvFaJ+lQtwMEaAtD1fWcg9 I2gUa2aXtF6N93Upp/Mwj2E75PyfclLGU/hfBpPa7DaaCZjWzTBKOncBM7M3+7e0S+jI HjiftA93upQThNfxozrGu62X8id6PfjpcmJRTKFZI76BGyIahnpV8sBl6fsFpvq/0c+M mKntu+u03LAaloK8cD+rzxDgyyTGxO94uWBCF9KNpmmD0JZmNcyZP2vCFGB193OaAihS xAmTBH7EeOHlsCVVjwll6Sz6KOf1C9wDSB8IHJhDqY4N5Zfd20kM1zPgt1tfAaOxg4MP alNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697221800; x=1697826600; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=i8DYq7tdsLlISv0QlwmGjSqA8KIET6zKkMQ+aYPfe8s=; b=j8nzWOUqep/k6Oar3i0sVNgRP0gF7a+a+JV4lKMOQH9rVuJfEd4GjvqjaEobkS4sTP DgBDfcdeIxWWMP7nNb44rDOnmbGSPe2O0LIQaDR73Oy3fMc2uc6I/e8uyP2s0HOT/6oJ yrgwiu4CGKVorJjkecPoG/I6gAu5R/ycIt9mlbvKiDBAjlDrzV9ZHl8fPrMnGArypOt3 749ksUsm0O15TqgaKDwa7unUCDNU5//CRO3w22Vw1voj+0OEAWrC2EV9pLACyptAWnUX +pNNr8COHqJ/8p5b/V9DMr0UyNyI3t+thibW/z/rydcKR0tjfhJiXez6qIjK8Zbzg07R UQ8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz0jw+6OPw882A9E1J8qOqCRnKX3sbAOPSjDuNTKUeBwzpGUhPp WM4Ut0/wxR+XgPMbsuAgqZw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFGD74YIJFIk+Up+AFus6e3fy16MHhl/CEfjb4zXhinxXH7bFXoC60IGgbP7Mzf4yn0r5YwRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cc99:0:b0:401:7d3b:cc84 with SMTP id p25-20020a7bcc99000000b004017d3bcc84mr24373326wma.0.1697221800231; Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pfiuh07 ([193.48.40.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p7-20020a05600c358700b004060f0a0fd5sm828946wmq.13.2023.10.13.11.29.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Maxim Cournoyer , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v2] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:10:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87pm1isgm8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Maxim, On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 at 10:38, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > + A > +participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (zimon.toutoune[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.1 DATE_IN_PAST_03_06 Date: is 3 to 6 hours before Received: date -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2a00:1450:4864:20:0:0:0:330 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) Hi Maxim, On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 at 10:38, Maxim Cournoyer w= rote: > + A > +participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility The term =E2=80=9Cparticipant=E2=80=9D could appear unclear when reading th= e complete section =C2=ABCommit Access=C2=BB. Instead, I propose: contributor, without or with commit access, IMHO, it makes clearer what are the expectations on both sides: reviewer and submitter. Aside this comment, it is LGTM. But it is better to wait more comments. :-) Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 14 09:05:40 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2023 13:05:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qreKq-0007e2-FR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:05:40 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]:60624) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qreKn-0007dl-N6 for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:05:39 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-41b1a3329f2so19894021cf.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:05:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697288708; x=1697893508; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=mbApxBhQzI5gqT5fXYwW1/GnQjOiKyHtt+DVnhne6gk=; b=U/uxNvAfu2C46p08t4YaXazZ9cu6bsA+bsgdqr9Gl3Y3+Nj2HlimK8JTGElkFr/zIB 1j6HzDVJu9Yvh67W/IHTr4yCVn0YWo9nWqblywTMiUrhcZT42bIZdaJ5R4uIKkmgWaYw NIgQb8xvRdrjPSO0WdOLhU62Y8H/AP2ZhjIC4Q9OFDyOaYyxij5YG5dwwQKMTwIPi4iw CL707DDjlG5ZmufEWK8kOJHdP3TN34WIeaSv7PJKagwek3LtsXpgIrSFh9uMhLMtPYoE 3Bxbo49WumQqHO5U54aiknlAQDs759CBnCR7xMkgZji7XWOnDBuJM9mbWp1WiNW0L61k JfaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697288708; x=1697893508; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mbApxBhQzI5gqT5fXYwW1/GnQjOiKyHtt+DVnhne6gk=; b=ImjudNOn5zac1dHDNK3kfY0O14d3aIOv0xi8abD4OQQ9Ux0GmJe3DKnarEWkTk8uBU h7BrHKCx3ufJQxI7BVjQhW7WfRS6AhgTGX7H55o4figBh0gHOnna1BcP94GpptHGI7Gr IwM/7xHmu85WY33cVPqAc2g1IPhR8jEvbL43k6Nlo6Mwx5moSz580Cxk/KadFxoVX/UU H39QbBygCoUqrns2IrXyc11OOFB2GtflKipCs/GTYUl4V5Zhj0sim+BWF+7ys5dRlYr6 e7N15WhpzobczB6Rq/ORsYmbnUmSr+MdhJ+MzBoC4l1WgXGmoziJeBNjo0lW9nus7cpZ 9u6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx/ui8Hg/NUhdhmT2Lyq8AgdXBscPoi6OM9gWKZqc3LqYBRAG62 LInU74WpJpbLQpvl598G7pk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFwMa0W8BUwwi7yvZfzlkKtrzG50kHt3YtPwGqxfsZlGllrVSZggsiBrfe0lXD47CYRn1HYCA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:490:b0:419:5525:e9d9 with SMTP id p16-20020a05622a049000b004195525e9d9mr38120979qtx.54.1697288708196; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-156-181.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.156.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w6-20020ac86b06000000b00418122186ccsm1468782qts.12.2023.10.14.06.05.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:05:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Simon Tournier Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v2] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87pm1isgm8.fsf@gmail.com> (Simon Tournier's message of "Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:10:23 +0200") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87pm1isgm8.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:05:06 -0400 Message-ID: <87r0lx4anx.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Simon Tournier writes: > Hi Maxim, > > On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 at 10:38, Maxim Cournoyer = wrote: > >> + A >> +participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility > > The term =E2=80=9Cparticipant=E2=80=9D could appear unclear when reading = the complete > section =C2=ABCommit Access=C2=BB. Instead, I propose: > > contributor, without or with commit access, > > IMHO, it makes clearer what are the expectations on both sides: > reviewer and submitter. > > Aside this comment, it is LGTM. But it is better to wait more > comments. :-) I've reworded it like so: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- modified doc/contributing.texi @@ -2036,11 +2036,12 @@ Commit Access are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A -participant wishing to block a proposal bears a special responsibility -for finding alternatives, proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale -for the status quo to resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus -decision making means and understand its finer details, you are -encouraged to read . +contributor (which may or may not have commit access), wishing to block +a proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, +proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale for the status quo to +resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read +. =20 The following sections explain how to get commit access, how to be ready to push commits, and the policies and community expectations for commits --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I'll push a v3 shortly and let it sit there to let enough time for others to chime in if they wish --=20 Thanks, Maxim From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 14 09:07:44 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2023 13:07:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48150 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qreMq-0007iE-E0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:07:44 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]:43359) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qreMn-0007hb-RF for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:07:42 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-77063481352so349443885a.1 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:07:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697288832; x=1697893632; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc :to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OoVQxC1leRNjVosRtBx6yyUfI/PpwPyQE2DaL+/0e7s=; b=BSNxLKuQR/ucfDUkw5T7qA0X4C/vuj7PmA1Wd4lMWFrOHuDaYxbS/6IF+WENo3P0Pf pN/3BloEW+57ZExICJpmTFhIDKjKe+JhJKhn16dUnzNq5QBjAA8iFixFHgOpY8Q5TgDL KEz0YsncHYbX6PXA5dxblPDhlm//nsOoWRFOpIWnhFMIrZauuVbD6HcmWo+Q/AcLxAeh Sb/ZZh5ZMRWD2Q+RrplwItcNa1bpX/E9iXCPRNlVyb3Vb40Y+f5rc7X6YgMN3bnQAziv rOs53xxlo5UoJvWSjh0oDhO3hjuJX8a3RJR5cpNDfLjcgRM1FaB2CbqfH4NqiBpPAV01 waAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697288832; x=1697893632; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:cc :to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OoVQxC1leRNjVosRtBx6yyUfI/PpwPyQE2DaL+/0e7s=; b=A7qkQs9QpgIrV/4rg3M1BjTT6mergYITAuCp7VlM01b8C4tk67U8Yc9h1j4LoubQOx sKVHmgouBc6DzJFSJMcAAscRSxj9oikTAsT77/ZqtGoo8u6WfJthP/jMMD+QwIwsAhBP hJt1eTzsQsHYkWI0ugdLUTxZxAi0z0bwqAl4Rp0Tg/0f2iQGOo+tIrFuyHNM5s9rK82+ qnsC7zSFCTZ2RwL0iRPlkQe1RJHRKckxlqmUutMxEEtWcW/bvC2EPCPyCNDjmtZZW9yq ZdS44brHum0E22t9AEb1WjuvpMxMDjpsSzyOiCBg7jULOxJGiOL/xXqY747CpFQVurz/ KIgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzjk0MPrzSxrg1D/d0Se2utXQ3DdUIp6XNU41Q9zLPofBKLOdon jfJ8fdkRNsPYurXDxFZYfR0b6+IQ+p0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEpG0k8AhgsdrnfR6Qf/A0QYUw9KFa3LWEiKXkmPJAjmF8yk81RIQlBmW2tDtTD6yDP3sp9nA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:156:b0:405:4816:6eef with SMTP id v22-20020a05622a015600b0040548166eefmr4374331qtw.24.1697288832324; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (dsl-156-181.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.156.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a22-20020ac84d96000000b0041818df8a0dsm1461759qtw.36.2023.10.14.06.07.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 14 Oct 2023 06:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [PATCH v3] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 09:06:53 -0400 Message-ID: <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.41.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: =?UTF-8?q?Ludovic=20Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer , Simon Tournier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with extra responsibilities. Reviewed-by: Simon Tournier --- Changes in v3: - s/participant/contributor (which may or may not have commit access)/ Changes in v2: - Reword per suggestions doc/contributing.texi | 13 ++++++++++++- 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi index 864190b119..f68ff5bb23 100644 --- a/doc/contributing.texi +++ b/doc/contributing.texi @@ -2030,7 +2030,18 @@ Commit Access consensus and make decisions based on consensus. To learn what consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read -@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. It is expected from +all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build +consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we +are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It +implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A +contributor (which may or may not have commit access) wishing to block a +proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, +proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale for the status quo to +resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read +. The following sections explain how to get commit access, how to be ready to push commits, and the policies and community expectations for commits base-commit: 4ec6fd7817ec4073547fd71309374a293d7c436c -- 2.41.0 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 31 06:59:33 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2023 10:59:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxmT6-0005ww-Ps for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:59:33 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]:41195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxmT4-0005wB-I1 for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:59:31 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-32f7f6d55f4so386687f8f.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 03:58:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698749931; x=1699354731; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2G0oiwz5uSqfhTOHENi242zhKUyOYyBP+GmqPqlNL9Y=; b=DYAEPd86QFm5hfuqtyc0AaU73cudmV8anicwxBBo3EzLAyE4wtdeKPR6zhIifeRAsO PohISbdRSgL7/EXNSk/QMrRxQsj30tRSSbT4+OAE9QnlLYVBFy1j9hjxZWnFd3VyJC7N ERNhMd+ACrygnQst+nKIgnqJlND4yV/1bltqaah0Uikqjg2NuUaTaO66WKa7ftiXcV1U 9oyfgn6YPo/2xfTRGAIYBSaPToJaqLjewjpGi94CwKnzAkj9EOTOX5hcsqrcZHLznoFg lnFn7XxnQXvAvpFI8/S+oRPGaH7AZlA9+g8wt6enF2r+shzDWUDXB1T2wOZUaZrK7TSS 0nQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698749931; x=1699354731; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2G0oiwz5uSqfhTOHENi242zhKUyOYyBP+GmqPqlNL9Y=; b=la4eE6mZSyPfqxl8CQN1h4bgtll5bwwK4iQg/LJi95UKDsJtZrn4yRYIkYfQYCKBM+ adsNH/Yb+AeXqIBA+rwfetgLA/69pL8zAlSMamHkTVBZs12sc1IGRG9gAv2c3OiTBd3t lpdSTUCmPz2+sp33Adl1Hodgl8XKMfAtNlIqEdRBVwNu+HIOC9XKQUp8Kv2cDhq/9NjX w1P05FXMEjzqWimSoev1CBhR2ttT8am26VNrGm/33f7IVBd/Dnqf+BpAGMqSrRv7znwh Qb9Gk5XSqO0ByX2cFtq8N4/QOGMzIVJ7F3EhzqJpr7ft0nw/w5qnpNs7JNxHZmzozs99 SgfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyx1oi3Il3uPDct9+H8HxlMh5RZnIoCF+VZxrJKAltVbTUx4qSU 50W/y097ChK/Q+Tw090wA5U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE60mvWOhJ/GMS79HTp7+jX7h1kQy9HrzXu4P2D8XpNjt5/ge/36RzVJujOs4qCenLmpZ/LmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:414a:0:b0:32f:7260:1223 with SMTP id c10-20020a5d414a000000b0032f72601223mr7562330wrq.1.1698749930944; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 03:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pfiuh07 ([193.48.40.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h13-20020a5d6e0d000000b0032dbf26e7aesm1237966wrz.65.2023.10.31.03.58.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 31 Oct 2023 03:58:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier To: Maxim Cournoyer , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v3] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:34:06 +0100 Message-ID: <87pm0vyw35.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On sam., 14 oct. 2023 at 09:06, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with > extra responsibilities. [...] > doc/contributing.texi | 13 ++++++++++++- > 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) [...] > +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. It is expected from > +all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build > +consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we > +are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It > +implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these > +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A > +contributor (which may or may not have commit access) wishing to block a > +proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, > +proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale for the status quo to > +resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and > +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > +. I will push this change soon if there is no more comment. Cheers, simon From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 31 09:05:17 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2023 13:05:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxoQm-0003St-UI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:05:17 -0400 Received: from sender3-of-o58.zoho.com ([136.143.184.58]:21809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxoQl-0003Sk-3u for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:05:15 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1698757473; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=m5DbUcxsU9Ps2tI5cFaf1ufaNv6UaWKPd4KxNPXFUze1tM6OdlaMA36V5KFRe4AmH9DZqCKVHgb2azgpsvhr3rPInwwaFr65pPHXYoX44fAyNGlkdGoSOPLBy2uclrRSx2ZWJ+0j0FkFr8OBJ+SjSMHpMA2Uz6j6yjPwmI5Ai1M= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1698757473; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=09Q5SNMZ1RRzmwBFcf7SyGT7YAq7J0QBz5qY2VQht1Y=; b=XJdzvBMCf6za3CICB4DjLZLJDy8fVyLBMbtV/jZj9Vn9JMaNjMC5FfBMN/i9OSGYqYaQlPAuV/5rJlQIuJI7a9z6fHM6c30PXwNjrUjoE3ZpR7SUhWidS3lWjhscC7VyhtLPAhXV6KDWuKEHaG3AGY+c7sWnirYhoGEga6+Gw5s= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1698757473; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:Date:Date:In-reply-to:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=09Q5SNMZ1RRzmwBFcf7SyGT7YAq7J0QBz5qY2VQht1Y=; b=D0rNRhJwlUAuLHMrrNVCTwfM5JvaDflj0r1NdjsEX/II4NqtRpix/3UePFxHIZyV rPCRjdHjmaepZXYuw3/h69Bvc03BNlK9jhl8EJ27aFQKvZK93PAuwKuA4qjEEwx9uYk KeN+Xtu+gSWXtZjHFDlzZIZnRiz6Gy0rPVNGya00= Received: from localhost (141.80.244.169 [141.80.244.169]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1698757471562887.756364543277; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:04:31 -0700 (PDT) References: <87pm1h2oq6.fsf@gmail.com> <87lebjyvz5.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.7; emacs 29.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Simon Tournier Subject: Re: doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 14:02:39 +0100 In-reply-to: <87lebjyvz5.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87edhbuen7.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, 66430@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxim Cournoyer X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Simon Tournier writes: > +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A > +contributor (which may or may not have commit access) wishing to Should be =E2=80=9Cwho=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9Cwhich=E2=80=9D. > +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > +. Isn=E2=80=99t this URL also supposed to be wrapped in @url? --=20 Ricardo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 31 09:31:26 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2023 13:31:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47735 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxoq6-00045Z-A5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:31:26 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]:44115) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxoq2-00045H-L0 for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:31:25 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3b2df2fb611so3934595b6e.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698759043; x=1699363843; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Spiplmy/o4ArXQtkqInimmRZxm6k6pqkisG8Z87cMVw=; b=X2in1DBox1iavnOdyvo5DRw66ORC/OQoRANryEeoCIx/cLYftrQSFwnHTFPg8W/Ask Gwl4WI62er2GBNz60qhPdoAhKlMYy+t5WjqR4i7pA4nVhqWwsImvjBZWEkFWHGSTDL3b GMcW5v5lHCL+iXHI3lQaiDo42wi74PZsn9QPiohthMIZkQSLTnbej/12bXRt4wsaytkG MPES1hjqIKzFfJqwbSYjck0q0o+b0ZCwZV9YBqF8SwOVPQ4mAuI4Qec9ULwSkJIQmMTe Mn2RxpmIdYuY6cP85hfaY4ClFce2lUKEk2HLBJ4kxkMlsAFNvHmEeBibYcQy0FNOBmiq jmhA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698759043; x=1699363843; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Spiplmy/o4ArXQtkqInimmRZxm6k6pqkisG8Z87cMVw=; b=oyzGqmh/EJbXd7v9xuQ5sFJHMTCMIrE/pnGK/wzur1WL+2oOfEZLfLcqXATTsJ2u79 7cRFxrabV60Hcf3fZOcHGDObwrss/+ABHz/VL81mxeDzf/3V7sWWnfko+QX8wIJtCOxN 5//KQ4NtjS8PBSGKlwB2cKaV4Qj2tR/lwVKYLmMictKXFIae7J7IZx07HcqGNG/9/RG1 eX+by6FHVd/NVOqOH5pSt3IyLM3DLdJsIWXqRQklXG22oKd0Jtw8q0HYCK96JJSVwABF SheedBKk+Wx8OGHXDKshLNY+VDCbwXeM3ooBW+KlbKx3N1t4SG+bcarfnbZOLC1CDRK6 kU4A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxozx4tp1KmmYGpOwxDebXHj1+rbai3ez6Gr9/7Kmzm+n2cFcSq Jm/d5Zh5vnfqaWc067Rql9U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEgVkzCqrywPldL8fz7+VaTR2hmTHKwEoAbe3IdViE8iBe4z3vrbrL0ar9mz4pELwB64d/nyg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2dc7:b0:3b5:75d3:14aa with SMTP id gn7-20020a0568082dc700b003b575d314aamr333206oib.25.1698759043178; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-128-239.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.128.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id op54-20020a05620a537600b007742c6823a3sm492417qkn.108.2023.10.31.06.30.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:30:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Simon Tournier Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v3] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87pm0vyw35.fsf@gmail.com> (Simon Tournier's message of "Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:34:06 +0100") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87pm0vyw35.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 09:30:41 -0400 Message-ID: <87lebiudfi.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Simon, Simon Tournier writes: > Hi, > > On sam., 14 oct. 2023 at 09:06, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: >> * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with >> extra responsibilities. > > [...] > >> doc/contributing.texi | 13 ++++++++++++- >> 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) > > [...] > >> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. It is expected from >> +all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build >> +consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we >> +are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It >> +implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these >> +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A >> +contributor (which may or may not have commit access) wishing to block a >> +proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, >> +proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale for the status quo to >> +resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and >> +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read >> +. > > I will push this change soon if there is no more comment. We haven't gotten much comments, but I think it's been out there long enough that if someone had a problem with it, they would have spoken, so no objections from myself. -- Thanks, Maxim From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 12:20:07 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2023 17:20:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgn9-00019h-2z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgn6-00018z-Dt for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:05 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgmQ-0005h4-2o; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:19:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=CYXfuc/B0FnX8NP9MvFLhwbWuYbAVNRv1//UxTbNDLk=; b=UBPEQIhUasVibnT/70JU PROGIfGlsF4YLhH8eaVjjq9c7Kbh9TOaITDIl6DvtY3Vsa9ugovUgPRlJs8NnccoaC2L961qfhBVP 2EFa54ALhzjt9b9X7DwdaSLaw7urCyvxk1qALmflCVVo7CBYOHFfl92ktW2FXAdJaph7Hm/NxOA89 YA2s7qmZ2mzyedYx5qHE86GP54ftDf5TmMrxfEWDFlJxhJcCgsAycvb1L6yvZFkEJCdt97gCIuqT1 jlfBvVEG4qN5h7HDq4QeXVjffXo5FQhXv6cygsrrT6cNpKqX25QmFQ2mUMjhS5t8Qo6X43Dj/bevW cd56B4vi1YvpSw==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:08:53 -0400") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:19:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87il6gyv6w.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hello! Maxim Cournoyer skribis: [...] >>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses t= he >>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, >>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/co= de >>> +to resolve the deadlock. >> >> I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a vo= lunteer >> writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no >> obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance >> because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). >> >> How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this ca= se? > > It's a good question. Hopefully there'd be more than 2 persons > participating in the conversation, in which case there may be some > consensus emerging that the proposed change should be rejected. If > there's no consensus at all and nobody is willing to iterate on the > idea, then the issue should also be abandoned. I think maintainers/committers have a responsibility that passersby do not and cannot have: they must keep long-term maintenance in mind and they define the project=E2=80=99s scope. A newcomer or occasional contribu= tor may not share that vision from the get-go. > I submitted this change hoping to encourage active participation toward > consensus, and to "raise the bar" for using a block, which should seldom > be used according to the consensus guide. It'd be easy to otherwise > abuse it, at the detriment of the group. Yes, and I agree this is a worthy goal. My only concern would be if it gives an incentive for maintainers/committers to never say =E2=80=9Cno=E2= =80=9D. Saying =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D is an important part of this business. :-) Ludo=E2=80=99. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 07 13:06:01 2023 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2023 18:06:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r0QSe-0000Qp-U4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:06:01 -0500 Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]:44071) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r0QSc-0000Qc-Vd for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:05:59 -0500 Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6d30d9f4549so3832507a34.0 for <66430@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 10:05:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699380315; x=1699985115; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MgFIrICgNedbKET3xiwRmIO3OqCnN9j1qZ0ylYlTAkI=; b=MlzVHU8eKrtiHHYcgd15OsQYV57+t1P2QhMEuAaPOV7AIxeRAZPSuHttyBhssHkCDV yOHa2wHGQtZyNjaDb53u7Jg/LzGwFP8XLZVHlocOyq2HDQbGSOlHJwRpUZ0WnzBsWB2U rf27DYo32kLeO1UGZ0YFQcXn6RmH0UtJ76GaZufORi8TxuY2ySQ85CYWdGTGzsa/HQ+B Nn2iZqSBadY5+fuj6dDhTh3esifF7LTrLmfSajeCfCQwtAEwSmXyyLNmc4Oe1ylesQvW aML6QeGl/AU9qPsX5Lh2JngtrWfXvSHbjQ0Vvmlc9czMa87CtLDHVIkTGvxCBamcBvo3 Q89g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699380315; x=1699985115; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MgFIrICgNedbKET3xiwRmIO3OqCnN9j1qZ0ylYlTAkI=; b=xRFZp1bT9ekvBDn18DXvFmS9TuDQhCKK/QZPaPEUMC4q2Eb2urQA50eZURAtLKjtg3 /mbS6N93Foh/NqE22XpjXDg/rPuJjWW+auvRe0ttZvgglycOR/eZnlu4gDa2h9qevzia 3rcBpNJ5vL+903VPzKuC87Dvc8X3+3Vin9jivFwKYmNleoF6g5MlIkmX9g7B+EXHpDgM 6EgKVat3NK7yQc1augRqvrnsHakDfscyQLzicSutcC+FrCF8sxleL+STu8PgfB7heR/y 7UeDRG13EfkmGT+EsRp+4Rs9Q57qx+HA0ZVIiJiEwDiRdGaMIpjxsWOrL3FeR1IhZ3eW H6Xw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwDAQXI+trI8H8N6VzDpZf5EnyOM0Y68ctO7QNdra3IQDE/X14F T3Xt8iIIoXcpX9lLen2xRnt+hXoT7eu0vQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHKI0wdLt79PtkbkKLu9DvYW7AAvAKmPe2RGL3RGhIiI1kdu7ZT46sS/GGhPuU/CKI9QBdUhg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:14cb:b0:3a7:7bd3:7ab7 with SMTP id f11-20020a05680814cb00b003a77bd37ab7mr41711231oiw.51.1699380314715; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 10:05:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from hurd (dsl-10-130-87.b2b2c.ca. [72.10.130.87]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c10-20020a05621401ea00b0065b11053445sm131430qvu.54.2023.11.07.10.05.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 07 Nov 2023 10:05:14 -0800 (PST) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: <87il6gyv6w.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:19:19 +0100") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> <87il6gyv6w.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:05:12 -0500 Message-ID: <871qd1jv6v.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludovic, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hello! > > Maxim Cournoyer skribis: > > [...] > >>>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses = the >>>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block varian= t, >>>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/c= ode >>>> +to resolve the deadlock. >>> >>> I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a v= olunteer >>> writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no >>> obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance >>> because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). >>> >>> How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this c= ase? >> >> It's a good question. Hopefully there'd be more than 2 persons >> participating in the conversation, in which case there may be some >> consensus emerging that the proposed change should be rejected. If >> there's no consensus at all and nobody is willing to iterate on the >> idea, then the issue should also be abandoned. > > I think maintainers/committers have a responsibility that passersby do > not and cannot have: they must keep long-term maintenance in mind and > they define the project=E2=80=99s scope. A newcomer or occasional contri= butor > may not share that vision from the get-go. I think the distinction between occasional contributors and committers should not matter too much in the context of establishing a consensus: instead of a plain "no", people with more experience in the best place to share to newcomers why they think things are better left the way they are (explain the rationale for the status quo). A consensus should hopefully emerge from that, or a refined way forward that everyone agrees improve on the status quo. Similar to the aim of the recently added review guidelines, this would favor active engagement or at least dialogue rather than plain, veto-like refusal. It's more work, sure, but that's the trade-off implied by using a consensus-based decision process, I think. And if, by some kind of luck (?), a large amount of newcomers were to come and start discussing and agreeing to rewrite the guix-daemon in VBA, appearing to form consensus, the idea/code could be gated by a decision from the co-maintainers group. This is a last resort "veto" right that should be seldom used, just like an individual contributor's block. >> I submitted this change hoping to encourage active participation toward >> consensus, and to "raise the bar" for using a block, which should seldom >> be used according to the consensus guide. It'd be easy to otherwise >> abuse it, at the detriment of the group. > > Yes, and I agree this is a worthy goal. My only concern would be if it > gives an incentive for maintainers/committers to never say =E2=80=9Cno=E2= =80=9D. Saying > =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D is an important part of this business. :-) I agree it's an important role of reviewers and committers to be able to offer a critique of a suggested change, saying why they think it's not an improvement. I don't see this new guideline as an obstacle to it, although it will ensure the rational for turning an idea down, if needed, has been well discussed and understood. --=20 Thanks, Maxim From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 02 16:55:43 2024 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2024 21:55:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45626 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rW1Vf-0005xr-7n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 16:55:43 -0500 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:35332) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rW1Vd-0005xc-HZ for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 16:55:42 -0500 Received: from fews02-sea.riseup.net (fews02-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.112]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TRV2474k1zDqCp; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 21:55:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1706910925; bh=BH+kINmuEwpzryjXDmgAXZ8Vsdjx9oVM8vEVYUGaMYs=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=YmII6XtYhvHEENIKcb0RuT1XEtZFh15jAqOe8veFNCQsmPrgjI/LDOtDAtCo3NWr4 IP1jxKHWitYdW3Uakw5VcM8cbNnnvjDM7tXq8IVE3nDP1M9RcqpjE4CisLIYkGC++u gi/harPPaN7xuVz6KgVX7PvwWMLiguacuholg68M= X-Riseup-User-ID: 5D3B620610600DCF0FCE62B42D6E2BCAADCB884CB5E2C53E8A750F94FB1FFB2D Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews02-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4TRV231HpdzFvQP; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 21:55:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 18:55:14 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Batista To: Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v3] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Message-ID: References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430 Cc: Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= , 66430@debbugs.gnu.org, Simon Tournier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hello, sáb 14 out 2023 às 09:06:53 (1697285213), maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com enviou: > * doc/contributing.texi (Commit Access): Mention that blocking comes with > extra responsibilities. > > Reviewed-by: Simon Tournier > --- > > Changes in v3: > - s/participant/contributor (which may or may not have commit access)/ > > Changes in v2: > - Reword per suggestions > > doc/contributing.texi | 13 ++++++++++++- > 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi > index 864190b119..f68ff5bb23 100644 > --- a/doc/contributing.texi > +++ b/doc/contributing.texi > @@ -2030,7 +2030,18 @@ Commit Access > consensus and make decisions based on consensus. To learn what > consensus decision making means and understand its finer details, you > are encouraged to read > -@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. > +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. It is expected from > +all contributors, and even more so from committers, to help build > +consensus and make decisions based on consensus. By using consensus, we > +are committed to finding solutions that everyone can live with. It > +implies that no decision is made against significant concerns and these > +concerns are actively resolved with proposals that work for everyone. A > +contributor (which may or may not have commit access) wishing to block a > +proposal bears a special responsibility for finding alternatives, > +proposing ideas/code or explain the rationale for the status quo to > +resolve the deadlock. To learn what consensus decision making means and > +understand its finer details, you are encouraged to read > +. I believe this is commit b88bff628. I did not follow this thread, but I've noticed now that it has two issues: First it repeated the phrase: "To learn what consensus... read " before and as the last sentence on the patch. Second it uses '<...>' instead of '@url{...}' on the second occurence, which was probably the one intended to be kept. Cheers, André From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 03 05:44:58 2024 Received: (at 66430-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2024 10:44:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDW6-00045m-Mb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 05:44:58 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]:41419) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDW4-00045M-Tn for 66430-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 05:44:57 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-40fd3b294beso223045e9.1 for <66430-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 02:44:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706957080; x=1707561880; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=8uNFD4HbI7gdHFl1Ljfq5due2hW/sbYHk5Ycm+Dp9RM=; b=bTvFjgWKHXmhIgjv0KaFA6yP58Rkh39h58MJPz2VQJd+hwXx5XhjMlYAAGKzeJ0/kA 18djxWUN0opMJeIZhVAp5tcCZtsZzq95aggkmZMmYb8RYDB0VrCMoaCAHI9N889I7YIK RzI2/vtJucEleM0GwEK3ariTJxvyS/YA8jmODq0K/e/SRfAZwFxW/l7Y11kLQFNnqBMn jimSGnX24vv06dZH5N4p+IxZ8+RZHJsUrg0fILrjkn35uNmDSKD184A2xmGCoBR0LOYW v0I/aDraXEaidFQWMnFB/pkebeAtgsb8KYIIioVcf9bX0S8wEv8+NEQ0ZzdY2n065PS9 2nCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706957080; x=1707561880; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8uNFD4HbI7gdHFl1Ljfq5due2hW/sbYHk5Ycm+Dp9RM=; b=qcxnkunygfiQy5QFspJ/835CG3LN6LyHXBt8IYM94As4dMDtf7wM4GXrALt7grEEsH kgyzE+3ttR+YInsYCRlaIlN9gCF8OVayDmECIwKsEldajudu5sODGoc3W3BUhLotot3E xR2gPppkcooE3xaE1tXPv9YywfNkoMyyH+f2PUIZ67ty4rO6HYBu/TR1gtfU+jjXrom8 KWinYTPhxLCugAd14X4SJAB3hY92Qb23Mp+9LNykf1PQCpXdAuyjiw515i1/h5M6eojd j8x3bwvJEbNMCAVxKs01/bpCCjMU2JbpXnQtYdD7cR5PueXxWhI3yDyq2HyqO6wGIYmE GoWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxH/ejkQPS5gqsad7/o5qoEGwT3U5gHPtA9BCo3E6ZOcHrRumav u0MwfSfNX38W4FJ58mAhsjR56CZ3XyaXiqDj3fP173mpoMml/DLQzbTFH5vGpNw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHQ4Q6QQf4orS+IDGaOtKcHjcrRICnsjpE0pMn84+jWgOjJHLBgY4gHidzdxHtww6lbFo83gw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1da5:b0:40f:c475:6d36 with SMTP id p37-20020a05600c1da500b0040fc4756d36mr3767286wms.4.1706957079729; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 02:44:39 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=0; AJvYcCV07BgihH8oI8odEw0v/eEtaUBToYP3rddo2wTXfKuokuRa/ltAdTP4+jaPQywioNLNJcor+2q7kkGk57APtphZobvsRVoHn0IMh1rlle696pIeaeXrA1EGZ7SSHW002a/Jh+rgOg== Received: from lili ([85.28.89.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h10-20020a05600c350a00b0040efb445698sm2546085wmq.5.2024.02.03.02.44.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 03 Feb 2024 02:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier To: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9?= Batista , Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Re: [bug#66430] [PATCH v3] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. In-Reply-To: References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <651c8c1faba688a5ac0dff1edc25c02cea249634.1697288813.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 10:32:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87a5ohlwol.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66430-done Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , 66430-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On ven., 02 f=C3=A9vr. 2024 at 18:55, Andr=C3=A9 Batista wrote: > I believe this is commit b88bff628. I did not follow this thread, but > I've noticed now that it has two issues: Thanks. Fixed with 9389070b9cdec8f250714df1fec82aae8bd7f67d. Closing. Cheers, simon From unknown Fri Sep 05 20:56:13 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2024 12:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator