From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 27 21:36:47 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2023 01:36:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qlfxO-0007Ch-Q5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:36:47 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qlfxL-0007CR-GJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:36:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qlfx1-00050M-Mw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:36:23 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qlfww-0003Fi-Uc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 21:36:23 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38RL6fRd028365 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=DedJprvkgA636aZLdg8I9WCsi6e4vWk5MFDkDUdV8Vo=; b=gmWV2We25R5yc5kVLzSiVkmIA5aSAUOtQC3+j7VY6dAVKmLUOIDkupgsEKFAekS6NzEb lEK5RFSwyILXwFhTo6Fwpu07ogOVyCuyIaz6gvTQGgguiDb/L9sMFvZq1xEwJzt8lC/6 yLfWQSZsF0H53nJRNDjNAcPwK8xA4O5yTtOvfLkQ/T4PEQM6GXifs0hIxrEDTfu6cDk4 7mU6PxFwvSAf6FfnxX+tk3+8vfqGldf90n+POeRssQFd/YNN++RWh/lCiZPukE/VFosN 3TDFnigJDvI3BwOkgbY0nPiqnM7MqagahFTDXaB/0SEDyNcTeoaYDkNOoxEmLbfllID/ 7A== Received: from iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.18.20]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9peeayju-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:13 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38RNx2oM030949 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:13 GMT Received: from nam11-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11lp2176.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.176]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9pfeu01x-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:12 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Hc9Vga1RydVKyH2kcSciETlBTrDb/eVyFoXubcVfxXguMrnB3TgQNLvZ/BoCiVnJ7kVtlhzfP/JPn4wxXgKbQLAmx/iLg/BQK4QqhJVcHlZVcQkurswDgLw5FuVDTmubMnySvKxANVMas2ODAo+EKkP+fpPwRbzO5AHhGWaMO2NnKomPTiCeU6uh9Sv4sYKb+v7IlDmAj8rA7GzSCg7QWBL0uSFGoS/1MepN0l7N5KXB/cCukhhCqAZJn5oTOpZyDBYPmaC8FCbTrNXn/Gmpo+LZICpsSIn71OHsgFbixcAg1H07hRBOM0cjTyhK/RkJeeG9m0P3qIlAryuTbgQnrg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=DedJprvkgA636aZLdg8I9WCsi6e4vWk5MFDkDUdV8Vo=; b=Czk8VnB+3ClSoz7ev2r9MYwbHSpz7d4NtYziP4CuQoRsba56qzsQ2V8aCIHSmkS4NMEuO2UGkFL1wI4+zvPyXe3MmwzPT5lj7DkbZueZkBeTliMJ7fWS6msDt4QPJVxkoxqtruMHI6Rm1TKklrclU7Wai35XLNJE+PSftjeJewkP19Hk49ZG4ohczC3+iSlOP0JPGB6/TXNOPKEaCWtIBMGF11w3ilZGyDEWP+OE3iiUP4Z+3oqO3XLmWkaDrmenkEJmQtloN3F80SfwSNh/Gzi4NjQgekeamBzc5sDqjjF7GbFwnqNC7c1v8HyMDaVIhEhTrmyThCARReGMwtoF4w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=DedJprvkgA636aZLdg8I9WCsi6e4vWk5MFDkDUdV8Vo=; b=WgfqMSWx1gFM/Tv7ZPjdFdUhPekn/ioC/n0nkefBjdQQOquAJYRnn18rf13jZanE+eycpx5nD30t705drfTIWK9DcRa31n8GJ9UoKpxSAKoY10Ts+N4FFU0dLK/WuLMr6WHO5PLAxbxUNM+T4wRpHouilF6ce/6KVwh2QVf/a6s= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by DS0PR10MB7902.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:1aa::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6792.27; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:11 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6813.027; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:11 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Subject: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AdnxrAfoysPMZVCVSKaJTfH8IL/4fg== Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:11 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|DS0PR10MB7902:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ffc1c284-0322-48d8-c389-08dbbfc34ba5 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376002)(396003)(136003)(346002)(366004)(39860400002)(230922051799003)(186009)(451199024)(1800799009)(64100799003)(33656002)(76116006)(86362001)(478600001)(66476007)(41300700001)(66446008)(316002)(64756008)(6916009)(2906002)(66946007)(66556008)(52536014)(9686003)(8676002)(8936002)(5660300002)(26005)(44832011)(83380400001)(55016003)(45080400002)(38100700002)(71200400001)(6506007)(122000001)(7696005)(38070700005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?/ekIphFq4AeALWDGUsbOuulBCEdzkfPcSZsbZLz98eoCai+Mpykv5mWa4m/N?= =?us-ascii?Q?V5V4EaCjacQobgA99RmRnFnLW2c5Ak42ZpiWg0txEFxtEkbt0uevqBOo+OEO?= =?us-ascii?Q?0Iu7evVu544o78ffeSCRb4hld1uMDMwPz1xZ+3bvMaovVqK1JJIJo8e8m2Ve?= =?us-ascii?Q?ROVdChWva/csaIg5vPoK0TpfJKjpP+MKbAWcP38DlK0vFQFrXKEQ/hHEZli5?= =?us-ascii?Q?4nnmscDYvyr+bnWPk0KzJGeo9MiO51m64cTnrlIC63cZNs/RvdzKL85yuhf+?= =?us-ascii?Q?F/YrE/LacZ/+vLyhd4abl3orNuIjf3JXxrWQw2TUCvmVclizhXtLXQ9MGxFm?= =?us-ascii?Q?2tYrWvmuH9dYULkKynbjil+kojbHEjWXFRHXupk5lUWn8SaMnP3Fr+gV9SmH?= =?us-ascii?Q?9oHuBv/J+GdCu0CiEtMCcP/Qa0Jz/UX5memR77BhmRzC2su2WjXXCFaOWAUu?= =?us-ascii?Q?ft9FD2F5M4ktsUFhN47Dp0JJFh3VXQeHLP1sMo4CnAAlGpMN8ZpBmB5ybMKr?= =?us-ascii?Q?BdYjsp9nQrLznScJSqWnjXYcjSRItdApl4y44IZNNd4VGLLGNfiTQD5oLYD3?= =?us-ascii?Q?aNleZ2DpuLqazolVf04svbVH7jSKFv4bLAGgOktY4KNGznVmHxqJENB+gUoz?= =?us-ascii?Q?6Bp5+7kZk6jclyJqTirXy0jycQmOfeBsZ50TjNiqeL6T4usVJo8d2wK3y7Kk?= =?us-ascii?Q?UMWsJN0jHU91BDeWXJ46z+jye029+nUpqxrh96PSgsUHyQSh7hIczzNySCy4?= =?us-ascii?Q?6AKywuCqXQh1ptt2cztdWhJrN0jLYZIg9UWOdOudWPcX4HYuO7QwyezP22ZY?= =?us-ascii?Q?lOJp7njdDED3s/fFfYCZfJu2a+4SXkNoV2bmmH1AOv7XCDV/I5Ur5vC1Jdl4?= =?us-ascii?Q?EQoVJ5xUFlvQ7y10wOsQwVHMb2J9vdrCGu836uaoVLJYKCrw4+DBBxFDrLbH?= =?us-ascii?Q?lxU+M2yfW8/t10fzYMhmpND7KCHMevFSsmGjF8UVUXYofGap1B50By4wrUSD?= =?us-ascii?Q?vsEfXEEzQwVVb5WJ7cuKrLJ9Bma1CxEa317gJGn1Cz3UmC6c8NE2h38/Cda+?= =?us-ascii?Q?PBvAsaLi//q1qA7Z+g6CmyXMjLTaui23enIUa6coYYekNZab1hzHZHjV1YJQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?E2I/5ppQdviZvqjCYJkrNT2/n11M4mel0ikBjwtRpeLE/Nm7iNp12L84vTVK?= =?us-ascii?Q?/QPsKpX1UaMjpMHSma2GmzIrOnnwtpYS9+qTIHOJyRmOwYY7nkxR9YjI4iZt?= =?us-ascii?Q?+iM4aYDEABOk0PDy2oGAtQndM7eydexLFZdRmYuuDUMf0JXz01+qPcyVhSbO?= =?us-ascii?Q?3Yr8XAHyrSFWRgqO51gOaD+F848WQZCHbdEoxWdOMla9En6AsGfJKpYefFu4?= =?us-ascii?Q?+c75O/V87a/Bbrg8Gv3rNSZLrC8Z4iI2LCrdKeFocyJwO0XKXdAG7mpq9Vj1?= =?us-ascii?Q?g0o+7CcQitSfy3G7kgZEj8LncUHM2ooOCz1JXlZBpDYljTz8jrlnZ7RFYUyW?= =?us-ascii?Q?nwYsyj+D9mZnM9COF0YKRu+7jAYlKNh5PDMK5qHJI47bNNSjQxWvO130bcmY?= =?us-ascii?Q?U3xVjSC0/YZBfCmcUxb1Ixv5+z22LgpLyy+jiCdG?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ffc1c284-0322-48d8-c389-08dbbfc34ba5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Sep 2023 01:36:11.1295 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Zp72zOTME/7kPearWv13xGEqD7voOtJueYJsf0IVdhuxqhTG14ZKlWeF6BUTDJH3kCG8U3OVXVsyT+yh5E81kA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DS0PR10MB7902 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-27_17,2023-09-27_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2309280012 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: IH3mUqk8xHq5nny8CX5a1jZwBagkcWpU X-Proofpoint-GUID: IH3mUqk8xHq5nny8CX5a1jZwBagkcWpU Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Feel free to close this if it doesn't ring a bell or doesn't seem actionable. I likely won't be able to provide any more information, so this is pretty much a "HTH". I'm hoping I'm not the only one seeing such problems. With my setup, which uses `default-frame-alist' etc., starting with Emacs 29 I notice a consistent annoyance each time I open a new frame or change the size of a frame - which I do very often. One change is that doing that seems to take longer; it used to be pretty much instantaneous (on MS Windows) to create and resize frames. But the annoyance isn't just that frame changes are slower. If I increase the size of a frame, for example (whether by program or dragging the edge with the mouse), What I see is that the frame size is changed pretty quickly, as before, but I see the old display of the frame, undchanged, within the new frame boundary, and the rest of the frame (the new, additional space) is just black (or maybe sometimes white, e.g., when creating a frame?). This is only momentary - just a second or two, but it happens each time and is quite annoying. I use my same setup everyday with Emacs versions from Emacs 20 through Emacs 28 without such a problem. Something new must be going on in Emacs 29. I doubt it's related, but my Emacs 29.1.2 has this info (from a `runemacs -Q' session, though I'm sending this from a session that uses my setup): In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2023-08-02 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.3448) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot --without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available) Important settings: value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 Major mode: Messages Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util text-property-search time-date subr-x mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils dired-aux cl-loaddefs cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads w32notify w32 lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 42193 5558) (symbols 48 5570 0) (strings 32 15949 1566) (string-bytes 1 430192) (vectors 16 11529) (vector-slots 8 226238 11868) (floats 8 40 25) (intervals 56 235 2) (buffers 984 10)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 28 21:21:38 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 01:21:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm2CI-0007O4-53 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:21:38 -0400 Received: from sonic311-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.206]:39651) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm2CE-0007Nj-E8 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:21:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1695950473; bh=BqVf1eQB1ddoIdSeNzmTrD5+4bhTuEgNXmJFFnV0uRc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=sGMr102zA1Lhog46Xsrea2RUwmigZWr8xE1osI0KjQeblK3o3y0IxRDle66+uzCrTWHkIXj4zuzHKTfDFFPQ7Dvwz11EbL5TpP7fJkGpe1nSFv8QQnqVrwdVuvtLbdy+C1nNrdkhRqAye850Wz5NILCOgwK19x6dS5B/7Gv39DOUkpVdMJ9Ysl4TPJORd3FJh6lBnfQmJgY+q828OfXaMcGMdk6Tncc1XlAe/Ritc6VhLHAqXDMbyOkGnm5+7J0K2GKe1iSfmTbcBMtcYaIYUt3dGjbR/v3l3vAHtc2ZlKJb4EUeOs9iFQcfOCVwuqxbyZ1lze7KrIhywUZuM2f+BQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1695950473; bh=uMVbcAcx3w2tef+wrZCVAqpM9hBn6HAuNUKxDkXsugc=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=ICfRN7k7E5/0Gfopyz0+etM4JqbK2ZUqDUvbLRWzuyPBb+3ARkMeHfmixRoS102/ZlkDCYC4wnSiupo79XWMGQBtB8Hj86cyai6CiePLFRSia36cXd6mvwNyyHd4mLPqi3xN/wgDSf3R4IgXjBSO5Quy7A4hEk4y4uMZg0fKLt1Sl5edCChLHXdpMSijjB7RZyHLp2mlrYY3JORZxF9dLpzhI+A9b6ALZPrFgrkoPZzfIa2TbJSKd0b9hS/o38tzmft5hFTWxQzwjCJ+z/nStmLF7fbY2O92+O7mYoP1vyCWhEOEuZ3CE0d69a7ilN+qntmzlDUen6V7avjpM+hwDA== X-YMail-OSG: vBfkisEVM1lLIJ6oSaCq6QYOhCcOC4QTEOMpSlh2vpW7u4offrQckk47AlRmidL tLuMzYaSK9TO2t_V7swnAyFxc.YiDW8riAGdalPv1pNoR3rz9LR.6dZ8_srv8cyF0rGP7OmUXc8J 5lKHsZI77oao0qDf19PQYY.otvwz5xmiL.2kJYz328.IxpycvQgyBRxKAEqjP_RzpvE419uW2qS0 woe.bp9mJ1QvuPRN.A7VCJ8LuPVuccifbgZHqD7cUzyoB._DUbuFdwJgm8YahgaY3ka3g7SXtKGx F1F0lNe9WqDxga2fA8S5ylaXsTuMDvvT_Hz3t85dSO.IJsQyc0GfOfeZPmfyPDIfmr8p5jDq0W96 RwmyHyfsM1LjudQ8t9s1nNxAM1RyBIKR.EF7MayLb1iC3cs1JsEHQ.PmojBET6eYlxSlqkgG_nAX phuAChcv6XTI00UGg.a.1lIe9XapFH5CBPeCpOzw9BAzJp9IaxX2dPvl1Rohw_qlB2Z14QtmTlP8 oxIJPEyOSMt0Xb9Wqnt5aw5BcPJ_c03N9n8BKpR_PmqXh0Q80aZ_vg09V0AP5wiFeUW2cB0TvZhG moHLl9aRuFrkeG_wFVAm5kiz5GbRlJfn.7cC.jCNdtUnvhybGK_7NgBQYUTIgRV__2te78xINghJ WKRr4ybvAt4wH7bZ3uWv15M7F24qw0FaHUI8rc3UXyVAlYaOGUqcmTXZ3euKiXYG.A.8C.Xvnigh Xc3dZWujy04oWAe.bizVckrgPMQgV9pyYryuL8L.KymquCoXS1ea2yhD3S9L6tygE40MYQlJ0Hxn nzCc7rA.1Vsm4gZrjp1NWJ5PVBo4VvvRwyDt_Q77Azjuih7qdctkaQsPInCjAPMvenuHZT3UqlP7 R4ezD3gFmyR7myAU8.eijt6sZoAjdls4bNi2DE9tIjqdASGrHPQScD2CXP1MKcNPhJP.I3Fx1DYC Bs0m0MWWVRBUfV5W7Z5DDKjL7qsLuO5NeSl4.XWuBDZ3mseMEqyLvRAECaOBO_RBsxq9Yo6MRrg7 vlj9YyBs.SC5fO0.ZIcOjzFvJAuLakYa3eaxidjkP4OrTky_EBMWuPtxHy9IapWbpeH8eIp0q5Tm p6kmacaDX152mDsuAeefla.ASE50MHhbYVRnM.ZdBti9i1lIRQQj.cB4vvLXofjA5C2ljjLv5vgq xzgCbSxIoHfGxyUUbFZpM0GJlPLO4AX4_MwZGMG..SAZwjlPhgJU0_wBqJS6JbswcaIH0mM8.1fY MJm1lyO6zNxhSIxoQQfnsxFxERSZH7cEiEX9FTYZ4r_AIILzfqxkLed08Ur_z_CQUtfHB.UvthC8 dsPaoFpMEOjcKqC8hv4RKX2En1lWgNDM3fa7xZ4duClNZO9Aff5kAhhjQ4lsFeVXJ68tAJ6TVjdU 5Xs3Jt_NYnnDV5YUnuGTbGJlFGkk5xF3x17NI4UkBah6fiXiROUMgbx_5qYa7.KdDOjrvdSPqChN Os4XFpV0hKuEsJZGykkhjVaZXpUuifSIlEM4RN93rRhBBYJuSioL_Bd3GY7C3iSSKwWGNyLwY3fo 3v2rvMb.Hw3iLPnTjflXjfWQ3ogHduvs0FKm99TCGz25KBfVzzw.0iLrSxUe.o16tEsOFT0X0zT_ 6dEtFDJUSlnIC2sYV12zQfB6nfsN2f5b_nkRoOMB1diEe0qqt.HIOKi3AE7PIBtHpJJd6URoLnvD kTh_lsopWTPAnc8Zx4h2M60rdbzi1g4wELbvwwQ7bj5lm5av65jZvnJwekLGXBhVFvEDsjt8coKP C2VwCxKuSAGrf00uHUoKHhLRuVu0xigTRM2E9gdL7qfdnC6CD2x9bjn8R7jd55oUub52yQUGumQy _sVUC_uEJdYIginHlA93TJrqAobaPV4kZGBjhuXL0Gwk5fH4p4hY1HNDrsruu4cc8lRNapitIyEX BAJ0iU59eElCrtOW.hn6x6ylP5XC1caj.9fv5hE9w.YZ6So0Esc73ajQK4MlR_gHtrvC55zS8846 3ujm2QXrfhBE2rSxDNmstouOAyyUoDqjjqlA4iZoecoJcy1D7S2XdcekUGAAWS_1yHMKO3XcCULv ikRsOxI7q2rR9fc9Wg4F3uG1B26THI7saDslTB8MF.ueSnG.ZWGV9KqURjE0PWl_G8z_AUbiPL4q kM3rROtK02mTqfEFdOFHk6xt5YrLsfdDj2S52pWDF0PfCGkrRQwLLI.yBnR6yW2LfQLpXW6gZcbp ulQa_JlIiuyrnIQ5708pNDGmX1UyqUg3xWrIqNhCZ_RrhdrTplsVfCSc0rjwCU18- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 38bf8410-da35-441d-a66b-5fd93e2b0022 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 01:21:13 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-58899d6556-c968t (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3d21421568d4b03c61e19d88a4340b88; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 01:21:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:36:11 +0000") References: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:21:02 +0800 Message-ID: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1738 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Feel free to close this if it doesn't ring a bell or doesn't seem > actionable. I likely won't be able to provide any more information, so > this is pretty much a "HTH". I'm hoping I'm not the only one seeing > such problems. > > With my setup, which uses `default-frame-alist' etc., starting with > Emacs 29 I notice a consistent annoyance each time I open a new frame or > change the size of a frame - which I do very often. > > One change is that doing that seems to take longer; it used to be pretty > much instantaneous (on MS Windows) to create and resize frames. > > But the annoyance isn't just that frame changes are slower. > > If I increase the size of a frame, for example (whether by program or > dragging the edge with the mouse), What I see is that the frame size is > changed pretty quickly, as before, but I see the old display of the > frame, undchanged, within the new frame boundary, and the rest of the > frame (the new, additional space) is just black (or maybe sometimes > white, e.g., when creating a frame?). This is only momentary - just a > second or two, but it happens each time and is quite annoying. > > I use my same setup everyday with Emacs versions from Emacs 20 through > Emacs 28 without such a problem. Something new must be going on in > Emacs 29. > > I doubt it's related, but my Emacs 29.1.2 has this info (from a > `runemacs -Q' session, though I'm sending this from a session that > uses my setup): Emacs 29.1 supports double buffering under MS-Windows, which incurs a minor performance penalty on frame creation and resizing. If you wish to turn it off, you have but to insert: (inhibit-double-buffering . t) within default-frame-alist. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 28 22:22:26 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 02:22:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm397-0000sU-QM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:22:26 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:9472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm391-0000sG-Qv for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:22:24 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38SK9wTd020234; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:03 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=SGV465fik8itgwrP5Vw81iTxJ+Enw6A5QjeiJ4U1nTo=; b=fsZoW+fA2Q7AikxsJtCqsGdjQ++hMOKcEpf9ujdIPaCmSr+AZ21i3KcYwMu2K9Mdm9dh 33dW5jtMzlIlp5k3bsID/d+FYLFpbefTOT/PaSmU4yt5yCmX9Zcml3A7ZV2KX/cQZxgu c9iaJi0uzZ/SqC5PXcSpHOqY+/ZxkI2ZRLbjp1GyKhVjFjghUdlE7woefDsYqyIuJMQs M+RcYkYN9NnDeVHMn8gL5bSi1BBiU0aTjSttGlMILRuppDqgSeZYPDPGK9ltbQaGgTup /aMm/QJBX51RUwfkZOTgOqZJ3TBy1vUh5LQI6AH95txzHL0EgDFvau4HhoLx24/3bCBj 7g== Received: from iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta03.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.103.27]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9peedr1v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:03 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38T2JHWr025399; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:02 GMT Received: from nam04-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam04lp2040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.73.40]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9pfgkrm8-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:02 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=dXG0b2JbtVc7FPLmUjP4mrF6VDiJ2HGb4yXbzct6L/MqIPjBhGwdNdBf1NqgflPPl8998RbRwrhblda/rcwntmous5zJiZI+KxJr+TjXUq3FoKbJhIcdTtE65o12rT2T4ltBgABOQeBx5ICFyp8ZJVgFh0A8J5jc0PV2q8KuH73liTaeay4VBlnquLklxFswsI2Z96WicyCkluGPxi3LlC9Pwv9MG64pURXMaPQZFHTz/UGX//YHOCIUsOuiJ+Toisvop1J01+CEGpMmteeG5HciLG9A1j3nlR8qByFOlqzg+51qHGTHrUhgpYFU/G+UVkGYaRmTSOmxDxwilYTY8w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=SGV465fik8itgwrP5Vw81iTxJ+Enw6A5QjeiJ4U1nTo=; b=ANxac8Ml4AcuPR8BOxGDXtzozbCnJP51uPuUHkNwY9Jao5UyFdKkxGeFgoPH1k1/LKbz85zlLPFlyq6ImzAhJiefabEIP9m6w16kIPy4vfB+KMmpXHse746P7OHZk2XAHJJY5AzLCXQyirOl/DPLeeqgqHEgRXE2cjT7xgxR9/A+GuCEpkQmRN5emSo66T00nXhnRTDZs3n9RpQNlG2PnNkjZCpuijR5OqPKffiXuPERWEsL8KpSaKtNRt/e3dF3Y/3iYm7mN0F3Dpv+g1ipaM6EP7ZYbmFNmm9fGYrFaoT3fN0wAoIyUxI5YKIrYx1S0KE3/hRU9zUGCH6i9FaBRA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=SGV465fik8itgwrP5Vw81iTxJ+Enw6A5QjeiJ4U1nTo=; b=OqB6PPSp6DXswJTzcQONEocCJLATaG11emBbtxgc9Jl84kwO3+I9jnxEVuoSlcNkbfgHBAykbr1CwhmRWtjQNAHcu7Eano7THT0hjHSXEybms5Za7tUem7eaJ4L3l3LQmK3+kz6p6wNnChWCjVhW3AvQTKSG3iQRpPutH/x4T9U= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SN7PR10MB6361.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:26f::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6813.20; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:00 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6813.027; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:00 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Po Lu Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AdnxrAfoysPMZVCVSKaJTfH8IL/4fgAxzfBIAADrVgA= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|SN7PR10MB6361:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d1f1d870-554c-4ad6-8126-08dbc092dc96 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(396003)(136003)(366004)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(230922051799003)(64100799003)(451199024)(186009)(1800799009)(8936002)(2906002)(83380400001)(33656002)(8676002)(5660300002)(52536014)(86362001)(44832011)(26005)(66946007)(71200400001)(38070700005)(6916009)(38100700002)(316002)(76116006)(9686003)(4326008)(66476007)(55016003)(6506007)(41300700001)(122000001)(478600001)(7696005)(66556008)(64756008)(66446008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?tRNXi+/XNbwB3h78rBJ7BccSDGkZM0gJOR8yx48jpicqBV0AmKHotoHR/kOf?= =?us-ascii?Q?0kHXlDd23KxEtvrAv8JUESDyQhdqfvRDRk0bDOOcTYbpMCqVvpvQdVXBTMCL?= =?us-ascii?Q?+XRsg3nv3xuQRhb7eIfJ9UKJndmcNKYdNiRlovcD02EKKT6sKZYt7kW5k/KG?= =?us-ascii?Q?F2CHt/9a71XUd5Ps7e5THiQ1WPWLkk0V3CEcAC3VZ2q9NyuPhxxyDHn4EAVY?= =?us-ascii?Q?IuJHZOuc+JrH3n+It3PyBUCk3Wst75o4XdoH4ok5R/B+JgIvRszHmpAZqNwH?= =?us-ascii?Q?7rndx5gYGX0G2KgkpE8HDrh1ZYrI2yFA9fUM1HnS748Pxp8L1X+jxEcVXUGH?= =?us-ascii?Q?afihQW0ho3McFl6Cgq1t7VvdVH4j66drf+LnVlmJjsnXJal6/0JCF7VcdQk3?= =?us-ascii?Q?WeKedpMQAMXv2lA3ds4MNfVl1lfjAbjHMCasLX4JCntp6CTCIDvJytTtCmGm?= =?us-ascii?Q?cnc0IW7DaSg37ufn1E7yjYnkm4G7GkE9Rcv9Vuzw1qou1GsvneSuV55QSuq5?= =?us-ascii?Q?smVIzfX5AbrVDVSu0ct474Lm3HK4nzl777rYNILS/0ZWz60eJ5f5H4aW87hN?= =?us-ascii?Q?5zJjNrCRmPIM+22ZvKrWPPXnVJeet5P7KYRyfXqlpxZGHx+xVJTORx6NjFd4?= =?us-ascii?Q?auPnNsFViTl8Hn9aufc1k6XMKhcYhXt6beEYaYPSco+/U5aMlb9ZRdpIdzDP?= =?us-ascii?Q?N6S9OnMrFn+Cq5X36L/PIRHAHVODpRLUM8RtPNWtomRvNSHwEmTClOLixxv4?= =?us-ascii?Q?Pobj4PPLRLVgtH/b2ipKIwoB25LbBosL7kHH8UuWivKa9KjrKFwyQ9Y425Xr?= =?us-ascii?Q?6lIym67Fe5XlXLd/ssqPVrvfkD0sXfF/MtjSR1iZZ9C/F3NpVJzQPRyS0UCw?= =?us-ascii?Q?ebkNarNnkrODd2qeN63kZNb6UlRnUsrqidHfQq70J+STbuXevVJ2L2uBgsX6?= =?us-ascii?Q?VpXp6Znuf0qva517SYehQXgqIDEkgaDLHaIkoTjiItPON1/xFDONHO+NL1AY?= =?us-ascii?Q?9+f7xpyi22CH3yb0a/eRitMyVg/abmzmVVP3gkWkI/kf0QzqqtzlQWYB0reh?= =?us-ascii?Q?504fYIpu70EWx94XtHt3QOGiexvDRtnZXvruoKqRXxYu6/HUDs7myNhzJ44M?= =?us-ascii?Q?YXNKehzeaLSM2rM98vnGgEL5drR0wnzi1PLv4+wJUplrvbIb4wBZ9lJrd/6d?= =?us-ascii?Q?4eojMAZMGDw1Ohb7iwkNafqE3yweirzgRIbXdAnN6OPUxk4ucwUPRai4gkaM?= =?us-ascii?Q?wtj7RXyUoygrIKPBLxkPULcMI55uCrduopEX4N8OuI6Uq8hCrOoPoQTM3SQP?= =?us-ascii?Q?Zq+5jjpl8samwurMnHzRCy+1cs+YQwCEpruRfr0FM6beJVuBN7awBn000J8E?= =?us-ascii?Q?gXJGbtWvSXg9lr6m2rpAwmpgd5X3kF9oHEIR7SsTydAI8n1RAMj/deZ77QMA?= =?us-ascii?Q?CSEf+cuD2oMDnpiyfT83RHMmYET7UgVH5t6BfKk5EXUOmx6QYBeQfnAoQ5yg?= =?us-ascii?Q?Tup8YBrlPlkZR0fzdSN4KGbHlGapSO+GpLrdOybyArdsNqcjxviAZJlAYojm?= =?us-ascii?Q?eE648vh20J6Igi9UicqCdkloLF02OsuBBFKfRZ42?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d1f1d870-554c-4ad6-8126-08dbc092dc96 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2023 02:22:00.1128 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: GPV5BgU16IiM+F9ld6I3uXCNFkNMYwwe5JHYhkiLE/Z06grnqAYb90zTqzHvCNw8t2psmIwHNTTma7IH68dGPA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN7PR10MB6361 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-29_01,2023-09-28_03,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2309290018 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 90XtbX6MnRQKkKHZcKDQ48Mi-868LPzQ X-Proofpoint-GUID: 90XtbX6MnRQKkKHZcKDQ48Mi-868LPzQ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Emacs 29.1 supports double buffering under MS-Windows, which incurs a > minor performance penalty on frame creation and resizing. If you wish > to turn it off, you have but to insert: > (inhibit-double-buffering . t) > within default-frame-alist. Thank you very much! That helps. I see mention of this in NEWS, now. And I see it described in (elisp) `Management Parameters'. However, the positive reason that the default behavior was changed is not really developed. Both NEWS and the Elisp manual just say that the default behavior (double buffering) aims "to reduce display flicker". Can you (and the doc) please say more? And this language in the manual is, I think, unfortunate: if you "pine for that retro, flicker-y feeling" then set the parameter to t. Has anyone ever really reported any such flicker on MS Windows? I've never noticed any "display flicker" there. Quite the opposite. I used Emacs on Unix decades ago, and on GNU/Linux a decade ago, and compared to that the display of frames on Windows has always seemed far smoother - and quicker. I've read GNU/Linux users gripe about how long it takes to create an Emacs frame, for example, but I've never seen that complaint from Windows users. But maybe I don't know what's meant by that vague term, i.e., just what to look for. I have multiple Emacs releases, so I can easily compare - I'd like to know what to look for, to see something possibly positive about the new default behavior. ____ Also, the problem I described disappears for the most part - the transient black background, for example. But half of the problem remains. The frame still transiently/briefly retains its previous size, as seen clearly by the scroll bar staying where it was for seconds - then finally jumping out to the frame edge where it belongs (e.g., in a single-window frame). IOW, the frame does not appear altogether, at once, in its new shape. And I think it doesn't get to the new shape as quickly as in older releases. Perhaps there's still some remnant double-buffering behavior? Maybe the new implementation for some reason doesn't allow for the same performance and integral (everything-at-once) behavior as the old implementation? IOW, the new default behavior is apparently _not_ completely removed by setting frame parameter `inhibit-double-buffering' to t. Dunno whether anyone can easily reproduce/notice this annoyance, but if so then maybe this bug can/should be kept open till that's fixed. Maybe there was some small oversight in the implementation of the change, so that, e.g., the background is handled more or less OK (as it was in previous releases) but the scroll bar or frame edge is not yet handled correctly. And in any case I suggest that the benefits of double buffering be documented better. So far, I haven't seen them. To me, previous releases on MS Windows are superior wrt frame display. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 28 22:50:09 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 02:50:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm3Zt-0001lE-7F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:50:09 -0400 Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.147]:43103) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qm3Zm-0001kU-Va for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:50:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1695955777; bh=AQuSCGYOMYIX1jt9cyjymUfQBe77DNKYS8JZp0UYWUE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=c2/+txmxSaNnkK2MSLup62OoXjL+hU3v53e48CKYXXHW5/r2GqhONOrDfluzqyR1iP/0/UAVXk1QHrPbiaP1xGUy/zB7/DomyKNOaeOXnWUM0OckzKqwcplbf27v2rGWQjsHKk5q0dE6mHcJ4LOPmF3OtRw2h5O/xa+hb0bcz/z1T0ZsoMtT8FthsGe1swolSCSslYGACaJTWuIQUfEA644W5X96qxZILUpURvlXspzctGG/5Xok79rg6XgOGrJYvnY6NfRWXNQSRVU6z53/pq9mt75Ps9sXc4/kWIpU2RHan68z/G2mTSupgQAZegIijUhBuWF4wx70BcaJBgCFTg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1695955777; bh=Xbz6ITAKFRxfuc8UdeLq6a+MJoyjthSOdiFvIl3lqkZ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=mxYkGtF/cFfuXf5R4rnaUl7VJVHFqrf9zYm9lhdDthoPj0mVtPKJxt08TbjODpsc4OxMkEG4TDsGA97MraPN//TlAZI8bYuqSOk3ngDSWj8zw55CAR/NAkXRLshuZIezKOQtOZw2HriZif3vHnwUNgVimVBKh58Frg4SLWarnx45ptxqSXeMrZJRzvlqwYdcXbnRfQQ/H2lcYtqd5Soc7k8omVQ+wSYQX7OEciFqDSlGBwyDaAJj1qssjx6XjHfwya/IHjZsBYuBARZmzKsvTGhp/Q6LfPcXNU1hdtZAxPLtfxNa3C/DnPnGtJ1ft4YKKZPuK5psSrV6z3wfthjiXA== X-YMail-OSG: BiXs4KIVM1nFQwLhbov3c1wqafzPua88SVqNB1GAUxNd.8UiFbkZZ3jbBjXB_lT PxYP3wRIEKWpLAmClK813e.OYakNEhRi0LZ2zCjGSfgIF9ykhQK1a66O5xeQ1zmoemDy3uPdxGWY VkLr4vfg7DuYFPRr2_XdAnuH4OJ.h9g_.cpA3Okd.EKUVeQ4YKqIPxKdd91_tJVPya.JmGm10iBd qbrt3eUhjQGFQ6TkY8jAxL.IYUJODibr.bwdoAp3WKysyCzX5yeDlI2uyzbDH.EnZVbAa_d1qmKB C.Gg.y2FyicbAftU4_devvbamgQm.Oxf4HzGJaRyLzYhwue91KE_WIvGBPpbjh.w82HzITcgMwJy rRqp8_KafXQm92pGN47ckEuaIUn9oZZGgtmKxwmkOAELdR2ftLXzcrJ9SOQXsR1vRmRnKSt.OWJr ifZN5Rn3me9bxxPy7H.Bq72UVn9dwNtTd3xrwc6LE0rTVAH5pW5oO3cV8oGNv.6hrTxHm2ht6aFy w.MtmeVjANBowXbW7BKUrbpujz7SccyLvFDtX3TeTWYgGGeLMcijKTLjIESeqGmpe6b6Nn0o3Y.5 VKNjXRFwoC9I5CiJWWmQSRXOz4lr1jsVsfVLnzHnFX.0DPZEBhhVMQwKhhkU7kLXRPuS7et65ugd Uqf_XRqoxQR.9sB4tTXeSPR2x.SKG9wTLaIY6QcLj6jL1L5Szx32whqAIcgB3tTEzXQeqsh.5H3R ikou64pdKtEOb0JblvSha3AD7XfKNAlDbKbGPPb6gnYNlqzOU6xPW38547ezqLW.xl7AUFpA67SK mcJ4dxCRY92TVm1.SKDmoz6vQ7Kj4tXYtq5J2Do4kJB33baazsJrkHAYSYZOoK3HoG8.Ctm2zxpC 8mNXmbY5su_4pbdRnZgthXj4IzuLDWfZlli8IyNIkXBFGZbeywGREGhQkh46ooFfajzMBV6K5tns uTDHJTAeKmWY65e_EI8HInco6LuKEG5c2lDvfvypOqMJuwkA3CLiVjPVnij9Rj7z9ea2vu7xcip2 bd_B.AWVviIA3sJnBwIz_ZyNLPfIh_L0u3vdY2oYwcXjsQKCFynN.T2ckDLCM.lRYslJK9iVxaQT QEPEv_duEIMpe.bNFF8xxXlCXouYWRXUgnt6aDf9i7Cr3ZsTaolQK3PaI6dITvMTjTX21OxRuFdw 6mNeH7v.k_sQZ3R0JqcXSu21Tx2rI6Bj1fTtWtAJaBCL7YR8v.3wQsiji1XfhbSHTYfZzQNrHzvB WrZejHnYs3UIZVx.Ggv3EIdoaaOvmQ7DdH4Tm7kvoKPSPjMkLzurXOVW7XHQg2JbakHZgBNk8DdS cmEIVdgBBK_OIYZ3Iw_s4ujbjSzdWzWu50_iZEZYd2EJakctDouVNwuhuee_VW7EHsagHmHbOcyi ES7ISM9K0vzVYBr3QdZcVzwHuJj.KB7vpR2_PbwMqRLdx.oSHqzNns2LR1P0M1xQaYKW9LHt.TZo Iv.XCaAQJuQWnS9t2tc.NwZpnPQ1_czAG_fD6ZZN_.PjSfbY_.8qOMM8fvd8il29du4mFfiwQJvR hpmUU_87ok3BEgysFvykyyDqvdq_qMCyll1UMlg2AiFZkSTJ_6tL_Yz_Au5wcvMGgvgNgdupxbpM lzX9z2c5f23DOGzXQjoF6S06Ovxem3tn7JlEjcTNq71cc6z8B7gYvIgsQW9HA_Euox93.XI6HvHr M9mLvszOm4wSWM_LLGj7OKNUROy1PSPKVWwkDUd2I_msInsIlgmt_GqwB0nQte7P0bOoWkf8596d AuuO5OqdAsXDCsORrsgZPbciCmLhnp5BkrF5Q1HoFdDkGNwVrMgYp2coCG3823joLLNVgQIcdI6G DEzbzwxqVv8IzHydVtUFVHrf3_Dy88sXKCpctHAD8WpuE50rliCKOrymlcxxiTAEWcg9Ro6pQUH1 h0jAypy6EII4d1D2RadTmMBKV4PSdORJELnF.WKosW1NURcFyCmgp.yc_tF4Jm4.OOmJxqNlgheV BqtxzaluhibIS88.zwZlfE8G8L5uu.r._pIyTbJaNq0_QYYhYDhDFtw_UDw2JxPCQ70qlK97olgw R016fwdmbi7rlY38z4KSyzEcfqzovz5w1Mh9ubMoV8tLpPrrYuCmhn6a.J8ClQeUh3tkSgNZKU3l g3TRXybdxlmhgUfe0uw.MCAlpC2fiRfN1OSoBB_KxRzS3kCBefcB7FzEr0guOQdEhpywmTkYpGTx yQaClAOyQ8ufdTbXAF8U43rGXlj3DZw0SV33b1yyVTVSMliQx_bKBDVGNkLrU5v8l6tIB X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: f6c13f4a-1270-447d-923d-917b2a0495c8 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:49:37 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-58899d6556-shvxt (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a16d4b8999cf52e830584be8db605db6; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:49:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:00 +0000") References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 10:49:26 +0800 Message-ID: <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1046 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Thank you very much! That helps. > > I see mention of this in NEWS, now. And I see > it described in (elisp) `Management Parameters'. > > However, the positive reason that the default > behavior was changed is not really developed. > Both NEWS and the Elisp manual just say that > the default behavior (double buffering) aims > "to reduce display flicker". Can you (and the > doc) please say more? No, because the flicker manifests differently for each person who encounters it. > And this language in the manual is, I think, > unfortunate: if you "pine for that retro, > flicker-y feeling" then set the parameter to t. I agree. > Has anyone ever really reported any such flicker > on MS Windows? I've never noticed any "display > flicker" there. Quite the opposite. I used That's subject to the graphics driver installed, I believe. Many MS Windows users reported severe flicker while scrolling in the past, a problem that has all but vanished with the introduction of double buffering. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 29 12:18:04 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 16:18:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57017 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmGBo-0006AR-3K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:18:04 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:19046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmGBi-00069w-BA for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:18:02 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246632.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38TEiE2A030998; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:41 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=SDunD1sAtAvphM4cE8CVAxNq87jGaoLQSBUH9TP6Q88=; b=bJ+pWTbnEwVDn6WsWeB1vOub2bOcO5zr1bLGqv07Czx5gHXOsqoXYlZFgi4Un/wYkqbj Z0RSxschxc7DnYIee31aDJ/PDntCFWXrcCAGZg4g6DFA2O0BjPX2vj6SQP2Z/H3Zt9rj HOCuxapWbv7gIjw/cqi7Y3yIIabSrqCSVCnSgYpzVduPoQBIJ/qSBlyIrZ7qgHQ74lwH ArtxlwTJiQYy8v7HdGJq0fGwMpckpnOTRaUWvAkEisLzkY5Vi+0CTBXcaz8RR8/01l04 zADCvj4TBrAS0I/E4ZsFm0brJ/KnkxhK/K+cJNCDA9LWQrHpyEB4P5HNnM1msukBkZti OQ== Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9qmuq3ux-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:41 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38TEZINf004804; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:40 GMT Received: from nam04-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam04lp2046.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.74.46]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9pfbysxt-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:40 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=N/MAWnwETAQCbeMoKQzoRMWtGm1nwvhXFe8suunNfdfpQVfnNRhLBlDJxpKqqkogTa4+mTaAaiKjrF+jzq5rWiEm7yvwCgusLizuyzIC2BZQlL6MgF3cfNkDF3b3CqcQgUnGbEHPGGhQD//XYiGVlVVyrYA5+7Ezg052kvuY2edrwdnjXZx161tzk8gMnWYJ0I8bgpZfPHwbPxDtWFvOFp1XYJxXKd/fc5SnFRRF1WvZiRALkl1B9ixLirVhSgZ2c2YsF3CtNSsD1FheF9dpQw1hBRNDWvgXc+nfQ5Kxl3HO+ih9f0sWwpljdaAX656xjBGx6F4+4O0h7COIqZAIpA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=SDunD1sAtAvphM4cE8CVAxNq87jGaoLQSBUH9TP6Q88=; b=ZEzXLQzKlK9MR5tuuivg7B0TrxuWz096gm3RdmlN7U8jfOjhxAvu1eO9IQOByLYfKPC2UJPvGvz6qWr28gr6I/fFpqWSu1+vMVK2sz4vWJSVAGsrF04VAG4YpEhihO/0qyDIYV0ViitqMItZmVIyGXBpRyoq7zlbQqAMzvGAiuguvI78REggRydB13uT7+zZe6JGGAVY/30B9P91ckLd1h6qUsbAHRr3Dq2W9zMmiacgV8grYkVf7gLj2iUOwV4DMSMnSiNVAVi48zXXqbV5UB6EIVCsKFzmPzagtLXj1U+X89ZT2EmQd03au9rpEvzLB6w5hjPJqv26lCknv5nY9Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=SDunD1sAtAvphM4cE8CVAxNq87jGaoLQSBUH9TP6Q88=; b=szJyM4TfxgcDC2Up+lFBSqnwpRPlA3hC5ZKDi90g7E/Hk1b0/CzjaEC7CebO/HCXqyU13ZEu3fkrXuhA2gSf1W7vHNsQdxuf9cgQtAhrXpd8W22QK6wyxyQetnxzKIvhdCSFpnzdlmhhPG+JHDZmbirsiDyRtXR/LrVAjmbfjAU= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SA3PR10MB7000.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:316::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6813.28; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6813.027; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Po Lu Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AdnxrAfoysPMZVCVSKaJTfH8IL/4fgA05P98ABuB6VA= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|SA3PR10MB7000:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8984d1ac-3b01-4d30-25ee-08dbc1079700 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376002)(346002)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(230922051799003)(186009)(451199024)(64100799003)(1800799009)(33656002)(86362001)(55016003)(5660300002)(8936002)(26005)(478600001)(71200400001)(66476007)(64756008)(66446008)(76116006)(2906002)(8676002)(6916009)(4326008)(316002)(41300700001)(66556008)(7696005)(44832011)(9686003)(38070700005)(122000001)(52536014)(6506007)(66899024)(66946007)(38100700002)(83380400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?p64BIpCkoyTYQAyPGH/RtzcMXTevkNK8dryA2r6Y7E1TIjtY35NQVES49rY6?= =?us-ascii?Q?f8yT+XpCTFXj+qMK8B+gSQ85bL9ITiO2VDXryQCCkS3jVwsyiq0v7fxTLw/Z?= =?us-ascii?Q?pwx99ZWSsZud1rimBBYarzM7qT4kttrapi4Sp5ZMywvijZAjr7k63fpMvwee?= =?us-ascii?Q?FuYf+B7C08RsIJ+AIbhdjXaL1kAk/bnhMV5moniR4sV5HiLFi8mXkj/s7cG0?= =?us-ascii?Q?qx8xq2cobYL2DzCsEZHD7zdXA3DgOiyj6Sjl7RSLMeoevTRgPHXSw3q9YRee?= =?us-ascii?Q?U111RVy3fSSqpAaN40KM2QXBaJicNubG1yuSu6fbruIkhqmbYYodHcrescmG?= =?us-ascii?Q?ox5JlVNOGBLFWOglUtCEr6031D8tKQrUigiUlqR5GlK/4XxEGbe4Jy1onN4t?= =?us-ascii?Q?chM+ZlJAQyyF8gBevnymtG8gT1hq3skiIwCNwLAViO5V5EemYJk0q6QYussW?= =?us-ascii?Q?dnDnFe+Nx1G2iuVplDPB0nfna11Ov+KmaN4qaTV+kLVcLh84fXPQTlMik2nW?= =?us-ascii?Q?4ViPuwaEzOY2OD7F8ZbKtXP20By+8wgDPTGz1evt/cWSyOrGXmxyyXJsmYSM?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZVuehNim7TFWpu27f+xk+ndyBcjFYE9nFlIOvmqc0ufCWZWD44xer3Qaikhq?= =?us-ascii?Q?fUpPjJsPY54UJgm6450607LBPjrhsFlzYHIYe2Mc8UogkN0BPIKwgJHnKsVv?= =?us-ascii?Q?hU2ggrELxPi6Mb51InSHHVvy74nzm0RRTBTMzRO1F7BCF54zCRIL9uz1J6Fp?= =?us-ascii?Q?o1SrIiRWz+sUdx1PZ/aKsBt9oJrzejnkQC0Zf7CHV01xTHQtGbZGR0wQ9B/S?= =?us-ascii?Q?MLrVqRLlCfA2T1a1gojB9/dxRmzq2ON0xH3Q62ytd5a0DJRY9cPI1zgvfOKm?= =?us-ascii?Q?LTvfjUkJ3tQ7MJ6OJxzQdL9htt0PS8a9LY9di2LFReQc1yJa+WkBpLom/RPA?= =?us-ascii?Q?cb3jphNXj4U3ZoF/3HDwpxZcgGItjFpvQDVCEeX25+PWh1M5bQQM8KZC0B8h?= =?us-ascii?Q?+NYnqX/0/G8z8SpyfEi9FFxYzl88KoCck14XP02M2SOTqTP7hun2UcgojKnP?= =?us-ascii?Q?i22E0qOqkBiHoUmYjuL8xh86cNuIWwlNasGPEKx6yktskMjRIGFCzEMuyvu0?= =?us-ascii?Q?VNTNw1AN/Mto0A6ij3D43zsS3Gk+YBcM+T8SWk7SmVEvXHNn/Mry6+kdYGT4?= =?us-ascii?Q?S9kUI8W5hI+E0oViyXuhbgK2Ru9fwIliC4K7TpSIwCm1+oLthPESyCkXaSgF?= =?us-ascii?Q?JCWzStzaaZ7fK1CSddhB09Hlk+Gd/BaiBGnduOjnR17HkRjF/arhh8ijViaQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?32wiLiG2DIxfbxtlCC4EKSpmZ70zLPz9rdgHe7tEJOWZsanFuGkWee37twkv?= =?us-ascii?Q?veg4GgJSa0kXOIJ6jfOOYAgRkSgo4zabSvXw0shjIytBDcwCyzDFbfduq2Pf?= =?us-ascii?Q?2DFHQJ9DTdHdBaPrNprY9HirfofjRI15AtY1LizIyA+0E7wpbCh1vLSymF62?= =?us-ascii?Q?wDoF8N7gf1Ti4MSo8UFF+zawN4iZxk58O86VgIoxnD0tlfvb7E7HWB+BOtG6?= =?us-ascii?Q?WBBZY755WKaJ5NsixwLgpi6nh5Xy8eJ2Rbi8KI0a?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8984d1ac-3b01-4d30-25ee-08dbc1079700 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34.4943 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8t+KWk0sA78uIx1dA0PnCEBxFc3gsYZ+udRbsDFPylb6i0gXBneh/rdqHZ3USQZjZgdQ2yRVXmOOdTQVlHndPA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA3PR10MB7000 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-29_14,2023-09-28_03,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2309290140 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 2wWAl-oINnr0Q_K8myp3dIoHRL2UfJwP X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 2wWAl-oINnr0Q_K8myp3dIoHRL2UfJwP X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Thank you very much! That helps. > > > > I see mention of this in NEWS, now. And I see > > it described in (elisp) `Management Parameters'. > > > > However, the positive reason that the default > > behavior was changed is not really developed. > > Both NEWS and the Elisp manual just say that > > the default behavior (double buffering) aims > > "to reduce display flicker". Can you (and the > > doc) please say more? >=20 > No, because the flicker manifests differently > for each person who encounters it. Sounds like a cop-out. Especially if someone hasn't seen any flicker before. > > And this language in the manual is, I think, > > unfortunate: if you "pine for that retro, > > flicker-y feeling" then set the parameter to t. >=20 > I agree. How about fixing it? The doc gives the impression that there's something wrong with what was formerly the default behavior, suggesting that if you now jump through the added hoop to change that option value you're somehow looking for trouble, instead of just restoring (at least partially) NON-flickering. > > Has anyone ever really reported any such flicker > > on MS Windows? I've never noticed any "display > > flicker" there. Quite the opposite. I used >=20 > That's subject to the graphics driver installed, I believe. Many MS > Windows users reported severe flicker while scrolling in the past, a > problem that has all but vanished with the introduction of double > buffering. Many MS Windows users? Are you sure? And how many had no problem, and so never sent a non-complaint because of no flickering, let along no "severe" flickering? IOW, what makes you think there was a big problem that needed fixing, and especially what makes you think that that "fix" should be imposed as the new default behavior? It might be subject to the graphics driver, but FWIW, I've been using Emacs on Windows since the 90s, which obviously means with multiple different graphics drivers, and until _now_ I've never had a problem with frame modification and display. I wouldn't have a problem with Emacs offering double-buffering for MS Windows, as an opt-in option. But: 1. Why change the _default_ behavior? 2. Can you please fix the no-longer-default, longstanding-default behavior, so that frame=20 modification is as smooth and as quick as before (no jerky, delayed re-creation of some parts, such as frame edge/scroll-bars)? For me, this change is a fairly big regression. Not just no gain, but added pain. Unnecessary pain. Changing default behavior shouldn't, in general, happen willy-nilly with a new release. It's generally better to wait for user experience and request - even a long time - before changing the _default_ behavior. Emacs dev used to be very respectful of that. Don't "fix" default behavior, if it ain't broke. You may be trying to make Emacs on MS Windows seem more like Emacs on GNU/Linux, but that shouldn't include making frame display worse. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 29 12:33:02 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 16:33:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57046 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmGQH-0006dD-M3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:33:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmGQF-0006ch-G3 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:33:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qmGPt-0001XC-U5; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:32:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=u5/iOx6sCcZQp4BDBxBAmsd0WMiADoubu2JJa3MRmzU=; b=HywWaywBzbbV Fyg6G1PRPd/CIFoM7Jo79QAdwh242t0bZkK9uzDf6lP35YL60qYsl2gvmtC05LuwwVP7MqjP97Y00 tzxmj1YNBuYEt89e7aeCuFPKYr5cly/V0o9tt7fo7n/2ANVW0cu34G/cX+0kn3x5Csvm/9xM9CAPw PI727NW7t5JUhha0fYBoRJxzc1qIgCJZuws/xci3jQjZqtv841/+/xDbab85GWASFQrcHnIa5SXoO EOUr4nqE0SGQYl6BBSNnSwTt1kURqMaAl31IvBKiGh6hscmSIWIPfHpeC/1fwoEr6WOLYPKwHdHuB nw4Gpk9f2igHZmyWDmw1Fw==; Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:32:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > From: Drew Adams > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:17:34 +0000 > > > > And this language in the manual is, I think, > > > unfortunate: if you "pine for that retro, > > > flicker-y feeling" then set the parameter to t. > > > > I agree. > > How about fixing it? The doc gives the > impression that there's something wrong > with what was formerly the default behavior, Which is the truth. > > > Has anyone ever really reported any such flicker > > > on MS Windows? I've never noticed any "display > > > flicker" there. Quite the opposite. I used > > > > That's subject to the graphics driver installed, I believe. Many MS > > Windows users reported severe flicker while scrolling in the past, a > > problem that has all but vanished with the introduction of double > > buffering. > > Many MS Windows users? Are you sure? And > how many had no problem, and so never sent > a non-complaint because of no flickering, > let along no "severe" flickering? Almost all of them. You are a happy exception. But flickering is only seen when doing certain operations, s oI guess you don't do them, or don't pay attention to the flicker. > 1. Why change the _default_ behavior? Because the default on X was changed in the same way. > 2. Can you please fix the no-longer-default, > longstanding-default behavior, so that frame > modification is as smooth and as quick as > before (no jerky, delayed re-creation of some > parts, such as frame edge/scroll-bars)? It is like that here. > For me, this change is a fairly big regression. It is expected that it will cause a regression on some systems, which is why the way to disable double-buffering is in NEWS. > Changing default behavior shouldn't, in general, > happen willy-nilly with a new release. It didn't. We introduced it in Emacs 26 (but not on Windows). > It's generally better to wait for user experience and request - even > a long time - before changing the _default_ behavior. We had enough user experience before we decided to have this on by default. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 29 14:21:40 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2023 18:21:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57184 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmI7Q-00049v-8q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:21:40 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:44694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmI7L-00049f-GR for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:21:38 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38TIJH8C008670; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:19 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=8RL8g6oNk2WfTeHKtAIDcUESNgk0qt8Zz3d3ibDyKYY=; b=MUrk5mavp7f9UompRYFwUJ8BLnwxTRUzONzy6FYQhfsyBOwJVIlsj5QYMsIW4ZV7Jlxn 5Es3HrVwCwD49Djl+Qk95k3ZGd4wJG1k047FXViqIK4csvxYtHg+ZQQgZV9DUMRYVTcH ge2UcsM8uADYC+5rKiPq62QHN2fZdxl2SxhNA9ks5lXSFJC6MCip8z04Nx78JcAL6qnv W/CsDBx/eoArBs/nvhvRglFq/FB/NnZckvODqXjW+CGFZX7uC9gH24mt+yfvAqH8opPH NWATE+fNlJKRQDIMzfLxU1IT/6VJ7SgBnh1UbtyviN9/Ww4TK4hgEWUB7XAQy4GWYMr7 rQ== Received: from iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.18.20]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9peef7cr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:19 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38THxWZA015924; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:18 GMT Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.109]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3t9pfhq581-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:18 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=FHRuHHgGhHHfEt2AaD6veVkTnQgWZSfIWcn25qOCArhllpuCqtiJa2lUv1rxdVKdNoVHd6GxuVqHrbZTlcZMWenDVskk3myXNhIjEOZrOafX6Yu3M48shFsp9sT88OgM6mRKUuJYC9LcEmHx7+LYBDvC2riGtPYMWU+r9z20m9vLTHI59npFoDAaYPaTkBiV9GX5bPKMPCeEmpw0v+MWWA9GH47ntU0KlU7h3M/pMmafNHMMMgkzVao4Y9+dmBeYjXL61xo8DKDwfAZWQZmhQ+AKZUFuwrVik5aNTotyHkR5chGu+uUhLH4Rx232KZ1CmFPRjdOHCfhwM3cQDuXlTg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=8RL8g6oNk2WfTeHKtAIDcUESNgk0qt8Zz3d3ibDyKYY=; b=gW53mvG5QVqUIn2niDz5WRNefYhBy4GtmsqKM1d2dw/NSJUMgXp7QCwHT+T7sJMiaza+eZVkUC/A4Dcuaafn1zPOEPLRZHeJ3fxGBhK85wuH/O9wZ97Gftx15dyyTYzT9Qf0urbspZwmARTJHAdzB8d9BuQokf8rSALMDRr2NZZzrdo++3AZ42G9SMuj8NAqCKTRSc8lz6OO2u85eRheBJ7XRNE/ft0/2XVe3zm8HR+7aOMc9YDIERY+qjjTvokf85WP29nN9xO8lBDLbz4bn45x0qfTAQZ3OuN+cTs4rBfInMcA77Vu5t87gv+kzlu1xEnbHRyd9zMuP6DASEYxmg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=8RL8g6oNk2WfTeHKtAIDcUESNgk0qt8Zz3d3ibDyKYY=; b=ivAnWZ2KYrg/CP4yPK5BYh8le+pK08jLVJrFRAfjou+zMn845W5r3dK7HZI8p95TtRa8XgJKblWleWd+y6z2RxcyZlDBV0p4u5nqQ3i/n9D8yoq984tivBKNCUawAI6n+AgshpX4iYkr6DF6GmYb6IU1x3/wKlRWwvQpaFmWUiw= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by CO6PR10MB5618.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:149::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6813.35; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6813.027; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ8vKSgX5RSPa/oUiJgd0WD582d7AyG4sA Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|CO6PR10MB5618:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 838cd65d-f8d9-4907-f0df-08dbc118dec0 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(230922051799003)(64100799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(186009)(83380400001)(26005)(38100700002)(33656002)(86362001)(55016003)(38070700005)(66446008)(54906003)(316002)(66476007)(41300700001)(64756008)(66556008)(76116006)(122000001)(6916009)(66946007)(5660300002)(4326008)(8676002)(8936002)(52536014)(2906002)(44832011)(6506007)(7696005)(9686003)(478600001)(71200400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?6zHnQQjiTDFAxiBXhuDX96lxrBVrHviCO3eUCPMEL0RsphPUOVYfLt5HZEdA?= =?us-ascii?Q?NPIKEls2Q4TRhTfuIiX1dyNQHaiJSb5hbVbkNi4GHdOgPA0zXRTK3L3g2m1F?= =?us-ascii?Q?9swWkdyKhPyZkiDjJS8jn4i3kzv/78l/sJ73+5ap5qcHD3PTHYlOwkUU1XSb?= =?us-ascii?Q?fpEs83fNlC00IAX5DIuooJX/vlmdY5wdODPhPymLMWUtqULzAmUo3jZHquT5?= =?us-ascii?Q?wZiVoInpx14CVdWJ+zEvl+0E7Zf9FMbAfuD02SimQy93LCv6/zwBOFKnhv8x?= =?us-ascii?Q?5l+UkxrynrX2jKbzhvioCJbYlPbXnJCksQfgk24z2DtXUE55v+6mkoMEPVmO?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZfxznbzqPkS6KJLW4YixY1Hy8rG/NbXktS0ZnLcQaZ4h67ybaGTl+NWX905z?= =?us-ascii?Q?s0fplzRse28ugAaRXJUNzcEtS/v0vhKA0qvcsXnpGCxylI68CooDaOIakcyO?= =?us-ascii?Q?mtS+nfsjMkjiWb84w8Azpt99onHPbGFdFEG7l49ScoFW/PAnZ0ehITPJojX8?= =?us-ascii?Q?3dLKjmsyEvZimPRWxDNzLnvlzIIRVY82X835RdlTzUUeNvoK5PynQ+zJTq/t?= =?us-ascii?Q?Kd01Hn3GNsR6VdXTYrDJXLK3esOUHqTBP77ghA2P8vYWIWIUsexMDnoB20rL?= =?us-ascii?Q?ISdwb+rb55N4u4I8ZTrgsbxLDKRMXS9yIcKDLGj0HgHD4TdS/jP9JxfTZZaq?= =?us-ascii?Q?LdA2ir8bBEmHAJX+vEjjZefkIBExS5HYF4xwLPiy4veH+NZclupanN7lnuga?= =?us-ascii?Q?5Icdi9VQXIGsScUl4PJCRYK9iQiULSXdnrBBb26sxHRdjIFLvDIbmJ7SEdx/?= =?us-ascii?Q?XNsK/bHH4MMSHdtbnUzIcN8y8nHfV5BbRoGyEOt7tBOFjnr1U3DNShbdYuIb?= =?us-ascii?Q?vB4xzPfSL+hPiJjRG/rsooIHxcN2Eh43FFm8GNhGgTcZQIiCvBU6f+GknsT2?= =?us-ascii?Q?SRDLFJCMl4ItM71Bc6IF3GlRjzw270l2cbAPMdGz06IymeiVop19ktl6J1Rl?= =?us-ascii?Q?H/CHSVE5581QW8j8JUB/9I96IFsHufReteEb+sCyp22oNiMW/By+hD1rk+vn?= =?us-ascii?Q?mSgNw+ji9AP2uU7r01QoKDhCpQKZIls3ef1XlE30rib657xWr+RSf5xxIjA8?= =?us-ascii?Q?7KgvYkj7UzbLVDQzEp2E/MfAlV0B8G5mM+zhXLDs3zb736OmelkQDoRR24nY?= =?us-ascii?Q?qM8/dcU2NKrJ3miwBYzihKglVslElWy7RSjxooTemrA9wrHCpIqpI1bhyUQA?= =?us-ascii?Q?EMPByNmMJ2P0vOJhuP61aPVAsRio2kz7TtRuHOe+/ryTr5P7hid4CXj48ci1?= =?us-ascii?Q?u0lXH9pzBxxsNE/ax12kB3qZ6A6Nd4CkvQtlh05WH9659XvHBTUzSB4nVPHC?= =?us-ascii?Q?idZZLWVuTLN5G+58+VMuFslQT0lFRMhpq4WTqDVRJY2Z3Cx2SCJox4gwAQPh?= =?us-ascii?Q?HMu6QQ2CPaMK8OElfabxO9SpBtwJQRGbYTpEuYiVJ2atCRPTybMP1gdVn90A?= =?us-ascii?Q?BqKKKqTcgGZ7As5KQsJVNtBod7393ID1jc3VtR1ZgYmQVUqprfrl7oqvDLmO?= =?us-ascii?Q?tBpDbEEnZtw+d2XZ55o/To7OKwimp0Bf8jU+fKl+?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 838cd65d-f8d9-4907-f0df-08dbc118dec0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16.3327 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: auS9OLQlAQb3O7kk21JJVXqL9/qQ8MNjmP+BU0LshKABQgmqtP0AnuJG0GIkyxFMno9F1/AIJ5cmRl05JoaGgA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO6PR10MB5618 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-29_16,2023-09-28_03,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2309290158 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: I0oRku1NL8n-LjKC48J9qNVa91-qT8-t X-Proofpoint-GUID: I0oRku1NL8n-LjKC48J9qNVa91-qT8-t X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > > Has anyone ever really reported any such flicker > > > > on MS Windows? I've never noticed any "display > > > > flicker" there. Quite the opposite. I used > > > > > > That's subject to the graphics driver installed, I believe. Many MS > > > Windows users reported severe flicker while scrolling in the past, a > > > problem that has all but vanished with the introduction of double > > > buffering. > > > > Many MS Windows users? Are you sure? And > > how many had no problem, and so never sent > > a non-complaint because of no flickering, > > let along no "severe" flickering? >=20 > Almost all of them. You are a happy exception. OK, thanks; good (for them, at least), and good to know. > It is expected that it will cause a regression on some systems, which > is why the way to disable double-buffering is in NEWS. Yes, good. But as I explained, that doesn't fix all of the problems introduced. See what I said about the delayed correct rendering of the frame edge and scroll bar: they continue to appear for a brief time in their old positions even after the frame itself has been enlarged - and then they jump out to where they belong (respecting the new frame size). >=20 > > Changing default behavior shouldn't, in general, > > happen willy-nilly with a new release. >=20 > It didn't. We introduced it in Emacs 26 (but not on Windows). >=20 > > It's generally better to wait for user experience and request - even > > a long time - before changing the _default_ behavior. >=20 > We had enough user experience before we decided to > have this on by default. OK, good. So now there's one user reporting a new problem when trying to get back to no double-buffering. I'm sorry I don't have a reproduction recipe. Maybe another user will be bit by the same problem and have better info about it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 30 09:43:17 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2023 13:43:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmaFZ-00038C-Jh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:43:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmaFV-00037u-07 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:43:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qmaF9-00045O-Kg; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:42:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3/rY8xRFk2uQITyzppaSeeiyPQHxzGtytmPzE/KJO1E=; b=P+Q8UDD+ioHu u+6fKpFMYQuYZWsaPjd4h4cDmjFXEnkdYuW9ERd4XoqdqIVgHzrabbDYvQklDknQw/ZvbRSsUS4Tc 8Y/n1r+6V3zwCCG5uL0xWtjZKpt/Oslfy6MV6XUbVmWIYi9d+aR/xP1aFL1wEbWjkCkjoFcf/h/ya LppVZv8hLc8X8lgxXdWcDhOIzRtokjUOnsA8wNQOIRVCuJ1XrunbPo5Qf0d07CHVew068/sq04auN g6ka+92E0Zc9LB0ZAtfhZ656DsOfO2ijG0AUXNSzm5QGGTnC5Avf8Vybjr0K3ZWwalE2voVxGkvzM EcyUiylNymjfnESCAlZk3Q==; Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:42:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:21:16 +0000 > > > It is expected that it will cause a regression on some systems, which > > is why the way to disable double-buffering is in NEWS. > > Yes, good. But as I explained, that doesn't fix > all of the problems introduced. See what I said > about the delayed correct rendering of the frame > edge and scroll bar: they continue to appear for > a brief time in their old positions even after > the frame itself has been enlarged - and then > they jump out to where they belong (respecting > the new frame size). Is this with or without double-buffering? If without, then it is not related to double-buffering, and should be reported separately. AFAIU, the display code used when double-buffering is disabled was not changed in any way that would explain these phenomena. If you have older Emacs binaries, I suggest to compare what they do on the same system with what Emacs 29.1 does when double-buffering is disabled. > > We had enough user experience before we decided to > > have this on by default. > > OK, good. So now there's one user reporting > a new problem when trying to get back to no > double-buffering. I'm sorry I don't have a > reproduction recipe. Maybe another user will > be bit by the same problem and have better > info about it. Even if you cannot show a reproducible "emacs -Q" recipe, it might help to see a clear step by step recipe with your configuration, which does reproduce the problem for you. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 30 11:22:57 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2023 15:22:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmbo1-0006bQ-C1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:22:57 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:21298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmbnu-0006bC-TX for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:22:55 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246629.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38UDZ0IW029563; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=o4FpCHFXPKmduHIX3ixWmOS7qJd5FHXAyfkgy06w8UU=; b=l0RQTVm8LvMyORBn2zlBqc9dKTiiBx3XtaumuksOocGIPBU4dtJiAM3poLbyNQXfS1ez dGfdyWFOSYgbIJQKFU7Xek9/y4cPJUJIBy43imrkk1YphIg06J/thCTGZ4JkoU801b8H Z5bDphKAWLLtK9TiWWV+SYRX/mjsnqGVxtfsyQQv0gcO/0CJEGX/7QFMfEJV3+t2kppO gwerjwA4Dm6ptS8M94ixCah3LPktlbPzXMfU1kGjKR2vMgoZSEQh7lZwow7vjhpa1OCK RWT42GL6yMW6VoNqRbWxcmgAY/kLLF2loMghb99tp2dcge95jKK1mCm3rvlIpK7rw26Y Ig== Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tebjbrfpt-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:33 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 38UEOkZr000647; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:33 GMT Received: from nam02-sn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02lp2043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.43]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tea42tmw9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:32 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=BtwktJMNz3pXK7iVGU795Rwj1DmhyOwvPkwMUGpRwyG+esuX59e/VwKkb5dCm9lv4tDCygo0a/bZlu+GlMYp2CjkvKlrsLBlvX+ufqt27mRlJwzTo+XUyF36T+ygA9Ty9wpNbjvoa7enTufM27T0wQ48/q7HeECE1E0dkgnIUI10P0TKSdsgBRlo5SfW99byzL+actE8T1g9IGEuM8pM1w8M9IiEPPsvCGABUpPDE6a55ujAFWm7sh3qYqcj/yhBejDuS/0bI5maqvMuH3kep7OJDt57X0TjJf087Vk/eXYZ2470oRZRUPwpPDw1i9ZrXPli4e7poJPLGM+RtMFy4A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=o4FpCHFXPKmduHIX3ixWmOS7qJd5FHXAyfkgy06w8UU=; b=ms4lpXyblo/q0CP63oszXeai1qR8txlcAbLX/lu6NAcEF7O0XzcUDXIr0pEzDHzZPKJyvm79JyIBXlBwfCDUVfqcwP3ZtEtebucZ2zKy3MzCd7+sKiLJ6hzvvGSKeDfvalk8l8ozc0tEkH3NP6q31edjXLdFCI0WHmvgfPUAaHiPgQ8VQvJvqFmySaBuvZ/gv9YKv6dj/S59woqu7I1aStqOO4UiFmAMHr6mtObJ80jFTYCrB8EPKgXLP2JjmOg0+Mj0tlUdH/zjbGR05JBEOs0sQ3SJWrjhinMvhkwCYtDTme2ywhXWD0KweOhCZJlKGNzx3eWlauMrrpAJbkwvJA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=o4FpCHFXPKmduHIX3ixWmOS7qJd5FHXAyfkgy06w8UU=; b=iXO2J+PEZU9undGBmolDVjJGxDr0twwAqEAlVj3cOrgbpWP80bpPkKxraUmxXPNkDGQklbMNTt5DJtg6olfKxXdJ11NT589L9JwFh68rjvT7LnRDsAKw/iXZOQjjLieHp+Oxj3ecFhUekuQRAtdSX9QDYg47f96bFMzYyLemI54= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by PH0PR10MB4726.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:3d::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6813.20; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:31 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a0f1:7d40:5be2:8be7%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6838.028; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:30 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ86QFmJS+kfiPiEah6zvueP288bAzeEDw Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|PH0PR10MB4726:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 57db51ef-f9ba-454b-8504-08dbc1c91032 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(39860400002)(136003)(396003)(376002)(346002)(366004)(230922051799003)(1800799009)(64100799003)(186009)(451199024)(9686003)(52536014)(83380400001)(8676002)(54906003)(478600001)(76116006)(64756008)(66946007)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(6506007)(8936002)(7696005)(71200400001)(44832011)(6916009)(316002)(38070700005)(5660300002)(41300700001)(38100700002)(86362001)(2906002)(33656002)(55016003)(122000001)(26005)(4326008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?0ezArEVazS7OT/PBqUtEXjo8G2v2B+McltOqQfS4B7KpU7y0VU5hDJ9Zx2IK?= =?us-ascii?Q?HGS/nobUCPHLf3eoN142fNr+INX+BPjVfGhfNi7zDyA0Y0OSZlpV0aonAAMb?= =?us-ascii?Q?VlQLG9CCdoMJnaUW4yGy6oQ73KZ1augH2GqApB9bXg649P6MiMTY9i1aUi3N?= =?us-ascii?Q?LaKxvQ04Abj2fz6bh4vyIgJVTpxlBIAB1pkTdeOgE/8EoRgYaC+DArT8TGv4?= =?us-ascii?Q?m5Erwf0+UP/J6Pf/blVgYDq1BzrYWXh8QyPrtkgu9cmVWXftuhrs6odI/mcF?= =?us-ascii?Q?Wo36onCgtiKubk3AiqBacI09tWlbAlXLlJKMSn54uJ7mYR1Upvm5zj96oVo7?= =?us-ascii?Q?952kIcQLNu8ACBQv26szzUPdD5l5rHmnxQVHqYw6YVbuffevdXaidtEYX1pF?= =?us-ascii?Q?OYC1le/A8hLZ5zurHHMpLjCT35KiDftilQwJKBOYZ8XYuF/1tci7UE0gL1+g?= =?us-ascii?Q?hjD7CnS9RIA6GoG6PYF5q9wnMOHHEBjnxf9BqUFrFzCsOQrEUtGUV2GLOAaf?= =?us-ascii?Q?H3b2APDVHILteBl0uIRLcN1AWsY1BE3fSv2zuAFO5HaJNQoBvR1rXXSZIFeE?= =?us-ascii?Q?w6vW8MWEFkWQQimRMbP6VENtePjtVec2DHYdNgd4i1vPatnfvt3FAVzsDCvV?= =?us-ascii?Q?R7xc50QB8CfWBE4eNX/DfO7rdZOWSOplkXo337mJwsjCfAHzyTP1+Rcz4bvY?= =?us-ascii?Q?3gnOHIkfZxqvKO5fQZVtntZuINymRSaRLu7O8iVhnFwZrzYSwP/spkTQty3B?= =?us-ascii?Q?sePxkDa52Vb9uz8FcFt8zANg1GMlm503LBaz5eRTqaH42TOrz+aQYCnsRXhP?= =?us-ascii?Q?Oq/lP76cVCYMo67xsB6Yh96k8hhq4GRTi0S4P2fJSla3DH7RVMb4TxW5f/Up?= =?us-ascii?Q?0sCG7qj1AGVEWqla0fPl7NdAikD4F1v2kNObqEpo+zDBuKBhkK19LZc2oyQG?= =?us-ascii?Q?nTmjeOmcfQQIzpZwiqE1P294PUo4mmYNiTC2mKwUbm3SWCyoBG0oxDMHnaG2?= =?us-ascii?Q?7kYiELyyte70fY27ORsma7xDbxTWuOT9o2hN/TTlJ4IGkOrNThmNFuz5FZrQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?Uo44si5iZftPc1gVWue360+bp+j2uGAtHKg4BPPJjgL2z4XG1TdILj20N9Ym?= =?us-ascii?Q?bXmXdewpLwajqBpJKqF5J1pxSvPE3H/f/f4D742UbKUmsSl7Y2rjAqPAQfO9?= =?us-ascii?Q?tbBV1bjBZ+El54XfejAhKKaxm3PiS/wfrHk3Io7wyFRunrHsofJUK9JpMO+z?= =?us-ascii?Q?+hJWpAyI6LTnF0KLiK/K92iYFmuSNp835eXZsTXy2QUrkPuWjSmX3GQWXpu5?= =?us-ascii?Q?YpvTn+lT4ujaq2QhAVIm3PSHs+ONusJx1YPrLvv6gvdeKIJHEsw1nz7GUyev?= =?us-ascii?Q?SpDvLvnA5O2u1WGpg4fC0nvEhBwbHBConvScRBHnF2pXJVuHaLg6h6q4inCD?= =?us-ascii?Q?wACZXJPUHhdq9NYwMgDfevmXdOSWKQ4aud2vPr9pQbt1rpA/A1BQbG60Ggqw?= =?us-ascii?Q?Ter8JS5CJx38x/Mw7+zttbLTO9iAYsQk2INpUgnhhsF+ZmjsyHvBXuyEylPg?= =?us-ascii?Q?GzQjhe5sB0pjuagJZv9lhBvAxaEtx3xdG32LFzCZ?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 57db51ef-f9ba-454b-8504-08dbc1c91032 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Sep 2023 15:22:30.7252 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8LfPPN6UoN+JuBcIFjbYvh1H5fspF2JzjsWzPorVrdJmrR123SbvbdaASA3dnUoVlB9feCHzIRTcyBt7t6Zjuw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR10MB4726 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-30_13,2023-09-28_03,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2309300127 X-Proofpoint-GUID: _jWw7n9_iVN1DRjk0AuNg4Jf2tFqVgMF X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: _jWw7n9_iVN1DRjk0AuNg4Jf2tFqVgMF X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > It is expected that it will cause a regression on some systems, which > > > is why the way to disable double-buffering is in NEWS. > > > > Yes, good. But as I explained, that doesn't fix > > all of the problems introduced. See what I said > > about the delayed correct rendering of the frame > > edge and scroll bar: they continue to appear for > > a brief time in their old positions even after > > the frame itself has been enlarged - and then > > they jump out to where they belong (respecting > > the new frame size). >=20 > Is this with or without double-buffering? It's with inhibit-double-buffering set to t. Whether or not that completely disables the effect of the code that added double-buffering I can't tell you. If it does, then some other changed than double-buffering support caused the regression. > If without, then it is not > related to double-buffering, and should be > reported separately. Why should it be reported separately? This bug wasn't reported against double-buffering. It's about a new, Emacs 29, behavior that introduces (in my setup at least) "Transient frame problems on MS Windows". The background being temporarily all black in between the original frame size and the expanded size is fixed by setting inhibit-double-buffering to t. But the temporary display of the scroll bar and frame edge of the former-size frame, inside the newly enlarged frame, is part and parcel of what the bug describes: the former frame is still shown, temporarily, inside the expanded frame. It doesn't matter how the frame is enlarged - by code, by key, or by mouse dragging. The bug manifests in all cases. The initial description of the bug did mention the all-black portion of the newly expanded part, but the fact of the original frame still being displayed was also part of the description of the problem. Please don't confuse the bug/problem description with Po Lu's guess of the problem being caused by double-buffering and his suggestion that it might go away by inhibiting double-buffering. > AFAIU, the display code used when double-buffering is disabled was not > changed in any way that would explain these phenomena. If you have > older Emacs binaries, I suggest to compare what they do on the same > system with what Emacs 29.1 does when double-buffering is disabled. As I mentioned, I am comparing. I use older Emacs releases every day. I don't use Emacs 29, but I installed it and tried it out, and immediately fell onto the reported problem. > > > We had enough user experience before we decided to > > > have this on by default. > > > > OK, good. So now there's one user reporting > > a new problem when trying to get back to no > > double-buffering. I'm sorry I don't have a > > reproduction recipe. Maybe another user will > > be bit by the same problem and have better > > info about it. >=20 > Even if you cannot show a reproducible "emacs -Q" recipe, it might > help to see a clear step by step recipe with your configuration, which > does reproduce the problem for you. I know it would, but such a recipe is impractical for me, and as I said, I'm sorry but it won't be forthcoming. I'm hoping (unfortunately) that I may not be the only user to notice such behavior. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 30 11:36:42 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2023 15:36:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmc1K-00071b-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:36:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qmc1H-00071H-Nc; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:36:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qmc0w-0002VM-38; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 11:36:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=yYbtZYYOxzMosrz3r4D+biDtMHpcRmj0Y7vaUJ/Gl/8=; b=KOgXr+S+ZuhA 7aTm2tpLIihNw5TY3Blf83h0p28tbons2X7e/8vCozuVEOwhxxVGRElB23EDaY4PTak9da2BL5ntg jNiasKl7UHOWdxRm2kCKM3smMdpeuEp3pORaAAgjlrNRtdJ5OYg0WxNgYZA5PjoqbsnmI2VKauqbA SZ7AMY0VtAB2blC847PtFcuFoVUEn54FwuHeC/UpRmvkyljWjGKRcPr8bj8NzuPyDWvSX9d9vFE4x ePjA2gspt0IDDpNc5yQAOipm1uylKPHMKSpX22vEEMqZMVAEtELvisGkAlFUws/Ls8T+ITCJ8fbfl 7DDPXcZk65rn8IXUGJzBDw==; Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 18:36:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83edifad27.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:30 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 66247 moreinfo unreproducible thanks > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 15:22:30 +0000 > > Please don't confuse the bug/problem description > with Po Lu's guess of the problem being caused > by double-buffering and his suggestion that it > might go away by inhibiting double-buffering. It was my guess as well, Po Lu just beat me up to posting it. > > Even if you cannot show a reproducible "emacs -Q" recipe, it might > > help to see a clear step by step recipe with your configuration, which > > does reproduce the problem for you. > > I know it would, but such a recipe is impractical > for me, and as I said, I'm sorry but it won't be > forthcoming. Too bad. Then this bug is unlikely to make any progress any time soon. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 09 14:34:17 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Oct 2023 18:34:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33145 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpv57-0007M1-4o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:34:17 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:42872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpv54-0007Ls-79 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:34:15 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 399EY0ZY015019; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:52 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=IgsnZrFI8Ph4g62+JRHZDwEfGXw4AKM6XFv3sP7Yrh0=; b=nPaqbZAf9zEOB/knHAw4DmDfuL3FPqaJ0VKLg9tQNmpfH+MQace4+OKScvAJgZptwvdI F3zOoHdTwTrrtS6nLkrcq9fnmulGjqET8DBpyknP+yijjttLfx1gGYzovPgvLSSZsWRz xRuVajbqZGl0vGj0znBBleCdEUi73JWWXOg5u0pk/KJVdeGrbykMVgUDo0nOV5odR1ki 7/RF44JZrxn/uJVZ2SbEuLc1SpaFWxhmTiNZsglnbTEl5alSPgRNXqya0PjbttD8Uqe7 B9MGdaBoC1c8Z6V0HEmRFNvUFaT12MJzSVJXoXXTwJ5LlZlL1xxa2ZXt1rG362xo4S+H nw== Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjx43kekj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 Oct 2023 18:33:51 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 399HVk1J004632; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:51 GMT Received: from nam12-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12lp2168.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.168]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjws59jqd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 Oct 2023 18:33:50 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=g1rHTAFReABnmi/W0T9jrBdoLc5nwFf0SVKQj3zA0vajJkSzATdZh1YSe8VbntYOTaCjVckNxFH/scYd8n1cV6g2ZjcHV7LBZRhwsCxmoqhM2STa0YSFox895DHfIV8I0O2WditO7HuLFoDw2um4L0VbWaLT+GNUYnmHQHCgPIbMOUATvtmzOVszfo8iB+uTmpla3oQr7KlSprzhWKT+5ya1dkFVDTx0qYQF7HEjfqU8t7JpdoEspfATqYz2+5G/rEE2No3fT3Qjy53wCZTqh/feL2uk8THpKfgIfihbCym3hFqwFtljvKZJ0aaMHqWJRYucZWziZbx8JPiEnAW5fg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=IgsnZrFI8Ph4g62+JRHZDwEfGXw4AKM6XFv3sP7Yrh0=; b=Jb+aieGedGWwZLi+SWNaob+Ha6A8mWM15mxaWuDRw3k1F/8Uc1RKm6mIGJdqQRrA6rrGcSI0H++ktdDvnSxJpCPtnJaYvCwTL6NBIpm0SeLS7rwtytzRvX5oK5nA4ADcS97F8iS88hLLsmasyw+iAhE2nO8PggHYICYXnOA+JvG5jao9ZyKYg2WjvNqPtuxyc33y9SX4wXn4G3r3J3RaKLa+rJjJmWSN/TKfDSAQWGWrdB4A7hisYhTFYlPGdfsZ53yoXgjM+d8T7uV01hNgbL+y7qLVqeEgxaJ90TJy7iH7cmVGezHoDFs240fCrS4OkU/8hykaNpt+y5mRTACXpA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IgsnZrFI8Ph4g62+JRHZDwEfGXw4AKM6XFv3sP7Yrh0=; b=wN/lPq9TTuP+Eew1ZIgCmG0AiV5D5ZOz71jET8IuMmz8CcMt9EMlIkNH2C7i9dUjd1z1v86eR+tjUWokODlx6drXzga4QUosK5jh7c/abLKDA9kkqIG1rCtUXd/fiJEVvNuPSk3/QV95YHnr1LZ3Yotzuyrnbq5tVWkSh5R+Wyc= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BY5PR10MB4145.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:208::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6863.37; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:48 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6863.032; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:48 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Drew Adams , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ86QFmJS+kfiPiEah6zvueP288bAzeEDwgA5cZcA= Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|BY5PR10MB4145:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4c7fc561-fea7-4a38-9f1e-08dbc8f6475d x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: z2wnqQRFFkguwFPo9PiyNVjJ4sg2vIP8xW0ajmVNMXBb157VXonnw4dMRWbnHmFBIHebKFlk+zv32Haj68ICqWUVcC0vjzAq0YHCBT31BxwhQY21b1fjTi1Rm+Gcxqs342QBk6gbJMhSBPXPkGflDvI86h8M+QdW7/yVGNgnjGP5hjB1HVCoo2bsIXyuij3+WhRp1hQQuelKpXB9fjEXWW8+MXNYZHP7VyiQP6qY33bajLKnjsMt69qzG2lOD6QzCWyjuEf0WBhGe92lmxYa9RwjBxYwPwr7LSCxEg435i164/vkM3x/81uI8gTzC0Lx2Hnew+T65+W/+DCaF/R+oUjxR9vVYFC2GAYExGscWekT7AJXIcSc24OUp5cgSP4rUZlEN7WnG4mEWH3s9AtV3D4W8H6uu3B8LQs4/NL9J/bsr+qw/zgvSkys98OXc4xjF2OgqNIolw9P7sXKAl/+p/zPP1VLoWLkczl6xphLgzK2zhiigs1+Umaxwt9ISVk6Jt6doF9UW5CjA6WS+S69Elww7TCvTCx4gEa26Te2AAwxcTxQOVyohbFe9mpJhDfovXw1tsftPs2z+WSUiRDX/oKjxVuRQTsEByzhyd0ZHJCASHVDRTxXVxeE6OvGtFc+ x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(396003)(376002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(230922051799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(186009)(64100799003)(122000001)(38100700002)(86362001)(38070700005)(33656002)(55016003)(2906002)(9686003)(478600001)(41300700001)(7696005)(8936002)(52536014)(5660300002)(4326008)(44832011)(71200400001)(6506007)(8676002)(66476007)(66556008)(64756008)(66946007)(54906003)(66446008)(110136005)(76116006)(26005)(316002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?9Z1nseJ9paN+mR8Ylq5SZ5PXaglZKVrAvolnZSd784Gng4KpDvDqWLeug+t4?= =?us-ascii?Q?DKzs1eDX2iGjoe0G1idWFe580hbuMHwIEhNmILlkTZb2LTOybhjzydYaTGct?= =?us-ascii?Q?lrEwNNLKnOGNhRt2m2db0qGL/NcyVAS+FFFK51OJlsTuiO6w46mcO47TvtZl?= =?us-ascii?Q?lUm4ZviQOHiHkck3gBNBxIZthJ8Hr+e5wAt7v79MXOkDGLS+blYkGBQK5gPQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?r68cVInF745wQBc+hOVmVebP4KRYZfeFreskn+51Ou2IJ1lAD7kew2MDOm8+?= =?us-ascii?Q?L5ylHBaT6TT+Osx/57flIuKaCMcZqN9js9Ig+089T9W30VrKDf/nu1nEeAyY?= =?us-ascii?Q?n/BvVHF7atwuNW2pDHoeyrcV23zgSM8sAXBrAPWXdAbiVOH7l4fe9GNElFaB?= =?us-ascii?Q?xhCpm49W5i7PAaqnBMpNgewpFuYOaVZIVQET+s++qL28swPDtxCHs1VNspN8?= =?us-ascii?Q?uTHEd6sI3OuY7pTuh/EezIYQbuc4CG5ZMbYVIf6ChkUDasITA3FIvkuB2jbn?= =?us-ascii?Q?cmaMC6uR8RI0qBzrfjaYleOZrvie03f/JxjV/2GjHzY7QaWWxzo7dMm3nSSo?= =?us-ascii?Q?/6Uz+GQ/unc/eyR0osE2I111C9/LXwJ8j+7ie7GtTDoYzPH2wXoWicSjI4VJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?dA97ICtga1P97tm3mJbe3847qEUnBJ/5/HagG56/Uz3drkp4h3KQLwiLquW8?= =?us-ascii?Q?E3Xs9/eTK5onPCKZad1UJaBtRGqQCGcGaalhuWug3zTYnfxIAwnSWfnEQEjM?= =?us-ascii?Q?IAS/7tt8S0RwTDKi3VXc21W/97bxo7k3adtrA8zOJ9GZ1tW9K8E9jWmasPZA?= =?us-ascii?Q?NmTnc8amKLPBbq0cjFedWblRL0Z7z/cdUTrA8FoVBzXMV/cH7L/4s730uzLL?= =?us-ascii?Q?sclrbgZCQKajVG21dcXs81BslLg/ZkMNuLUp2SrkoezZ6CHWEB88MOhFmeHX?= =?us-ascii?Q?110IF0vRA2/F00XfdByF20uEyGbGEaQsULAar7dsI0ltuwD5q7xnxUMrmnKE?= =?us-ascii?Q?Sjci+NGZ4rXUOb6DSiSXASKt+6n/+XRCkxA1OzMRF1DRcbpqrB1rFK913P9K?= =?us-ascii?Q?BtxNNOMLXXvtIiQtlYUmEyDfgX1StLXq6qhSJza9jhnlwKi7ehmaoFVJUkNn?= =?us-ascii?Q?cpg5NGrVlLqYgKq7RkBuowLLo5BUj0usGp3y7uo1QyehjG7nqlEO8I6GKXjm?= =?us-ascii?Q?aT08mkfKghu7vz/dd2B8GvCWBGsArTfUBI/dgpkz5sKlwtQHWMzuvjvrRJ64?= =?us-ascii?Q?YjBUEDHcP/SPe28Dvp90vvj5D1t76JG8uH3AAGfuQXqc/GZOdZZgLizn0WmH?= =?us-ascii?Q?/SCILMNYB4jb9O0bpBya5HT/vy5wgP2SOzKaH2aER8f16hayJGiiq/gpS55x?= =?us-ascii?Q?n9fxkDGQggEYOXY7x+I+CD9NQTqym+0SFuD3vuSDF65nGwfc+SXnGEe9VTrd?= =?us-ascii?Q?3ZnVWjrcVFh+5MQceMkutgN+1aSRpbvHDAqGl545yIx7dsBxupwQ0TA3f7e+?= =?us-ascii?Q?04l0tQ0WtcXf/EECa/i5NZxgJ4qyc71LaBEDjMKiy4guEBi3rQDFwrSQjK/d?= =?us-ascii?Q?vse0nHtwsK62gTqvXCqbt15UOYqceQ2BEIOJxxLg?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4c7fc561-fea7-4a38-9f1e-08dbc8f6475d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2023 18:33:48.7528 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 5vHJSSYhBV3eIBBp8IDzzqjw/pFrtrFGgb3rmoY/9GJjLXTP76WBzu8J/XqexmOilh8f1i76rWcqS82LmsKk5Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4145 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-09_17,2023-10-09_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2310090152 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: DVaI0QU3Iw48J6pk6mlmDhB6s1KxueUE X-Proofpoint-GUID: DVaI0QU3Iw48J6pk6mlmDhB6s1KxueUE X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) In addition to the problems described, even when parameter `inhibit-double-buffering' is `t': When applying a set of frame position and size modifications, the transient appearance shows not only the scroll bar in the initial position but the overall frame, even after it's resized, remains in the original position. The final position and location of the scroll bar are not realized at the same time as the frame is resized. There is a _general_ regression wrt the behavior in all previous Emacs releases (back through 20, at least). Setting `inhibit-double-buffering' to `t' removes only some of the problems introduced. You may say that the rest of the frame-display implementation, besides the addition of double buffering, wasn't changed for Emacs 29, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Something has led to a regression wrt frame display - multiple frame parameters. When a set of parameters are changed with one `modify-frame-parameters' the effect is not to change them all at once - and that's new (a regression). The frame is resized, and some time later the other frame modifications take effect. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 09 14:56:44 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Oct 2023 18:56:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33184 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpvQp-0008D3-Qf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:56:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpvQn-0008Cp-Rd for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:56:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qpvQN-00033S-9w; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:56:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+Icfx+n9dgLZha5eclYqIIc+V4+nviqakd1HDHEMV1w=; b=jJF2oFYuMpuI 31Fd3XyIUk3lSJuYAKfFAgbe/bj+9rbY/va8CtJsVJad3wtcj5+MXPQm2W/2TnsVpSRt1hacm4uPn +r19Aiyc4GS5Z1qrKobkt0iClf7AN3X5NTyB2fv0xTaux+C2e5+fU49BnaodpFn8GhlZE1t9ZdmYn Twl/J684nLJLsWXAk4QQeSJc5tkvjnMsi6pbmkxnFO6hC62RpGyGQdJcr5isE7FEJjzk4qEtzgDmB YeJW+0k2kq1kiWhXbIKQ0lcy3xij0DPl7rczMwDCHFk5Xt2xWoHtsHQdfZK4qYW9Nd61URW2KNexx ltuFuAcP43rYgdPYRuDJSA==; Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 21:56:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:48 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 18:33:48 +0000 > > In addition to the problems described, even when > parameter `inhibit-double-buffering' is `t': > > When applying a set of frame position and size > modifications, the transient appearance shows > not only the scroll bar in the initial position > but the overall frame, even after it's resized, > remains in the original position. The final > position and location of the scroll bar are not > realized at the same time as the frame is resized. > > There is a _general_ regression wrt the behavior > in all previous Emacs releases (back through 20, > at least). Setting `inhibit-double-buffering' to > `t' removes only some of the problems introduced. > > You may say that the rest of the frame-display > implementation, besides the addition of double > buffering, wasn't changed for Emacs 29, but that > doesn't seem to be the case. Something has led > to a regression wrt frame display - multiple > frame parameters. Needless to say, I see none of this on my system. But since you didn't post any information regarding how to reproduce this, not even which commands and/or functions are used when this happens, it is hard to tell whether it simply doesn't happen here or you do something that I don't. > When a set of parameters are changed with one > `modify-frame-parameters' the effect is not to > change them all at once - and that's new (a > regression). The frame is resized, and some > time later the other frame modifications take > effect. Frame parameters were always applied one by one in Emacs, not together. This is not a regression, this is how Emacs always worked. Bottom line: I find such "bug reports" extremely frustrating, because nothing, literally nothing, can be done about them without extra details. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 09 15:49:49 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Oct 2023 19:49:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33236 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpwGD-0001kT-6q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 15:49:49 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:59182) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qpwG8-0001kH-MD for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2023 15:49:47 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246632.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 399EYBkT018177; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:23 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=cBMi6LVlNfw4d+Y/Pdcoq22fV/ycb3ovb1Cfya44tsI=; b=3o9xyDVCEHzf8TV78la7dUiELeoKRm6NwvB0DdbQEFEr3+Uj7ttuWQz3ODqRcll1fBzy m2qBDMAVYzOyt/czmSP3M4iuMY9xshUy3R9PaH/SCF1CIwAGtUwCQvuFqUY6WzRIpnuB 2iE+iWrM9JQCSH7ulFuQ0UtOL4fVRCkF478touKg/VRgW2EuCLMu636vCAMqcTcfi/Jk 0U46DOI1X8ddxxmYkGcS9/NO98DZ4l8RBklk7xYSoJiMdomxEZ1su9MU0HLMjRU4EpHi 4d7/qTU7x5eBLakTBAousC+XCYh11XGGbYq9UXFMbV4+Qh6DcTWOAW8IqiLDo2g11DEq wA== Received: from phxpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta03.appoci.oracle.com [138.1.37.129]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjxxu3hg2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 Oct 2023 19:49:22 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 399Il8K6016228; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:21 GMT Received: from nam11-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11lp2169.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.169]) by phxpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjws5muk2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 09 Oct 2023 19:49:21 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WbluhxXuO+sMNCMParmjELqjngFnf6PQiNdSbY5oUCiuw++u7S9dI78hnVdIIlCoFWIzyGvN4OJtvaGJjrJqFDXNM08VlXR6cOAGBTH/QKYFCD4xnw6HIHTSWGs2I30TcdmpPuJ9pkdFZfGcMEUsXIctMN5K/Vn69GKtKQh1qQpUNCzKz8Xn2pBnE3WQ/dTxQCdus8lOgoTEDXjtTXwKRWxZTM6plhn1Akt0usmxddI1VB3ykMlKWuKrR0mZaNSopK/jDQBKRFIy2CTDCkMz+J6yPIeNxm3Y6LZOGsHEYTi8N9hTOXIykxpP1MkW5EhNaUatLVQYrHOY2TC1tM86sA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=cBMi6LVlNfw4d+Y/Pdcoq22fV/ycb3ovb1Cfya44tsI=; b=aSPuJXpkg2sBKMXocaOEDuAgnjDYHwaWYk7bl87w6a7jtwP3pw+rXQ626xQTqJJO14ieqU4sS83ogZcUn1HbEJh733ru6bOD6JHbu5/X18/VnlzP3YlDWzx7oSiYptzWpphG1B+RzRyeLpx2RsaXBeUcdyQPNrdE3gcRiQxcRg+et6RH7N5PL7wo++7W/6//qkS/8vlWa5aD3VgLwr0q024PLnWs2RtxFOH+IBi28e/C+4UPIKdHPRP6PPaYwCZIM+wqke7zzK6oUAWgoihXCALz4dNnO7by+CU0hdBA8XvTcAx/4ebQsA2Ku/pXv8F9gDS+WCw5W4P6jIXmRZhdIw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cBMi6LVlNfw4d+Y/Pdcoq22fV/ycb3ovb1Cfya44tsI=; b=GdWfYVlRnz7gW8JO5HubHF9kNPKTDihbZX5ysYdk/VNlaEQzqiS/Zv0AL+IvC/NzLr2craAT94lRSeQkjMaeT/MIzlBeA9VfqYbWDjj+MBEaSkZivnsa5sgYH05ZpQ41OCauPfIJeKt1WVzXF9w/ujWM1nt5AJ4zSnl2PbNDcWI= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BN0PR10MB5158.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:408:120::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6863.38; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:14 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6863.032; Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:14 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ+uJLQhPNbd9y7ECnlqdD3TdaM7BB2onw Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|BN0PR10MB5158:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2e0ce571-247e-4f6e-522e-08dbc900d0e6 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: hJfdGDkH2ILefPJGP5TpTtQyKIJqDos49SqpUcBiXB+3BGzTpW9wivopaoBs1/vmvEy9ZOxzhaRdsAG7bleLV/nH9V37XnmuMh8nfKASAGuCe56bFrwAERfPlNPnAMfewrjFnvZUz9MbenIimsV+lOygJ4fH0khmIh9dxBpsriZTDgUR1i6GhqvVi7lhNvwXYJA9XUvk5o2wgf7AeEwDubERXi33mkJSYuGiOGoy1NHN/Em4k+ASyjLeIBlJ25D8YrChI6gNfyI4bTm6qAhvaDGrhUcfyPKvb0lyOP0o9YfnMzGhNWCEaIF1WOmJ56OohgS31Y9WuAhpB8Y/Y2S68QOUccJamQTr00tyLFAFHNPy7xp31FSz2oMyaJZz8bl6jPjW4JN2JMMRdIsCuodnkw2MQ6WCqGk489arfJn2j36BRwdUv6Mnt1fzC2o0m1WhK6KI57Fgws5cRj+P58RI9H1XCABMuSW22KVik9+6XpoBgsbNy8/EQ6NtAlhuV973t1KANqP/r7PPkpHLfqi4C+M9INpUtTu5htDb8HDot8qGwAYr0mL0m4G/0ZX15rK9y4KC89OYvmOWVUWPTFt54mv8V1zvACsu7Bi8mmxHB65dI07du8hAGmE33c9k5AM0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(136003)(396003)(376002)(39860400002)(366004)(346002)(230922051799003)(186009)(64100799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(122000001)(86362001)(38100700002)(38070700005)(33656002)(9686003)(55016003)(2906002)(478600001)(52536014)(71200400001)(8936002)(41300700001)(4326008)(8676002)(44832011)(7696005)(6506007)(5660300002)(316002)(66476007)(66556008)(64756008)(6916009)(54906003)(66446008)(76116006)(26005)(66946007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?KEKCgzc67ikcVezQh6EYidYV+4S7i3mr8V8cvHTXjwiV7M67s1+gDzAsuPb4?= =?us-ascii?Q?rt4MOCjuRutW/0O7j6+fR8hZpoIkP6Pzb6Dm7HMBf73aAy2wkklzuvI6MQcG?= =?us-ascii?Q?WIp+dkvK7predKOvpomeNt6soSSUgKw5SBaLJkkmhQBfHQVIWxeHvx6HR4QD?= =?us-ascii?Q?gCn2HRhrnxwqDCWRk+vuwT3PDix0UB6q/Em5/a8XC0hhVKpB1f3+h13bx5Kq?= =?us-ascii?Q?XI4JaCpJpndtq22zcELDLOLn5A9DlEuSCnvOxzxvNf6AVXlWYMrBxZepsmy1?= =?us-ascii?Q?Cil54nMVJ/5uwA117ZXP11EX4YrAFk9l7ARXI83BaWzz5+a2sQ049ESdCd2z?= =?us-ascii?Q?uj0py4rvJTVVaR7cp5o+4EEJO/MIpr/Bl9At/ARYzzwn89NEQSf8d8zRE7eh?= =?us-ascii?Q?92H2CzBHIbs+K6N8P0gbmn53olA5mQZQvmTCI0NDg+zPYQg1F4MA3TjtTUSL?= =?us-ascii?Q?AdqHJ3ddvk5/6HVZKFRa5pRqmjS3JO/I86649MXE85CRYftSCrLd7Zv6CLLm?= =?us-ascii?Q?GBKGhhIobwHXKWFYAHRvDEwLwz1zYJk6ftOxl/ppeeprQHj/TGj1Vxp+vB3Q?= =?us-ascii?Q?CXG7truM7Th4yL0mnQn6eZhTzOm3V2So3rROm+ntxSKjSNwFBjcgBEVaPq+S?= =?us-ascii?Q?sX87SFGeI4tZeOUfzOyBSad4cUUvhSlVPkUGnx6vEOwGm6wGOMczciZfRUiZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZRV21R7VnvsPwh+jXCOOM48eqylzczdtPxJQPDI0YaJT11uH1wws4k+NbxP2?= =?us-ascii?Q?eXdDbec0HpQT06OFtSmXzuUZ14go+Xzbm+I3myck/uV2yvA0CIREg48lN4+F?= =?us-ascii?Q?q+bLyDfAhg55dpS5SJS0OdIFMxY3A3OJRDHWNZM+16kIwpytx4ICESEDI8fk?= =?us-ascii?Q?5yakQcqdzcgKAFt0am/Lv0VWdke+fRIv1W/2wYxcF1yV+uKnH73/PQeZj+/Y?= =?us-ascii?Q?RcSuzwZ3ZO/dRnrx0BCzRz+TLKuYDr0I2l2MrJywFeQKfz2kGuX3AYsZJ9nm?= =?us-ascii?Q?cmDyY3DaFOWrad2HL9l/9JLxFTGmNHqUpcaROIyrCgfuABDiwU29ocOSLXGh?= =?us-ascii?Q?ne5ggOmEm98VnFJkjhUvG2h6pfMaOatSGdxfRrBqxDpy2V1XbeNDgLjWoOVL?= =?us-ascii?Q?rSriUXWKLfPMhQzDpE+0kRa9hTSlYfX8sZmbzUcMqtXjwsHoBmx+m/IGNIAV?= =?us-ascii?Q?+xZTOr6c6uqBPShXfrPBCJY4lpiE5M7mYEkJJWZOybgFwCI8ZeVoVrN6Bq0c?= =?us-ascii?Q?JmEwWU6ENyBGdyz16sJ4osZHUSw+FR9v0GbkgUvy1KDw1joPixf6aqmZ/8zM?= =?us-ascii?Q?BiUYs04gKU8RZjHC3lgWssmYzlx4S4eAKmYPsH47nw9o35RKSuVyQQkjPKpR?= =?us-ascii?Q?IxgxgeUwJYA77V1irzCbnzkj0tnwSx7o1wmIPBceEIKd9KUuXy2LnYxuI4Eg?= =?us-ascii?Q?sCAejmpausv+ajN+gx8oCp4kK0shhn683Bxhpi4YmXISmuNwKzrhUs8jT0kO?= =?us-ascii?Q?loukvqyr16JmuKJlC+4OzF5F8+E60sa2pPZTkf+pBxEJKpmEVujiJToWuw/f?= =?us-ascii?Q?SRIaiVfeOgv5SnOanHYJ7jQPNTMnlJQhQ1xXWwI8?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2e0ce571-247e-4f6e-522e-08dbc900d0e6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Oct 2023 19:49:14.4694 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: mchI49RxRGf8zXGZ8/QusBDr78WGhmnv8jS21CRG8BBRA+KYWXqGAdASp+PzAeV2JljTOKL39LgSUK5e5+Hqrw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN0PR10MB5158 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-09_17,2023-10-09_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2310090160 X-Proofpoint-GUID: -EgBBpVvM5NE7HPbVMdljoU07QfprRBb X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: -EgBBpVvM5NE7HPbVMdljoU07QfprRBb X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > In addition to the problems described, even when > > parameter `inhibit-double-buffering' is `t': > > > > When applying a set of frame position and size > > modifications, the transient appearance shows > > not only the scroll bar in the initial position > > but the overall frame, even after it's resized, > > remains in the original position. The final > > position and location of the scroll bar are not > > realized at the same time as the frame is resized. > > > > There is a _general_ regression wrt the behavior > > in all previous Emacs releases (back through 20, > > at least). Setting `inhibit-double-buffering' to > > `t' removes only some of the problems introduced. > > > > You may say that the rest of the frame-display > > implementation, besides the addition of double > > buffering, wasn't changed for Emacs 29, but that > > doesn't seem to be the case. Something has led > > to a regression wrt frame display - multiple > > frame parameters. >=20 > Needless to say, I see none of this on my system. But since you > didn't post any information regarding how to reproduce this, not even > which commands and/or functions are used when this happens, it is hard > to tell whether it simply doesn't happen here or you do something that > I don't. >=20 > > When a set of parameters are changed with one > > `modify-frame-parameters' the effect is not to > > change them all at once - and that's new (a > > regression). The frame is resized, and some > > time later the other frame modifications take > > effect. >=20 > Frame parameters were always applied one by one in Emacs, not > together. This is not a regression, this is how Emacs always worked. >=20 > Bottom line: I find such "bug reports" extremely frustrating, because > nothing, literally nothing, can be done about them without extra > details. Yes, as I said, I'm sorry I don't have the time needed to dig into this in detail. Here's a simple recipe from emacs -Q that should at least enable you to see the lag in display of the scroll bar. It's not kept contiguous with the frame edge as you move that edge out. emacs -Q M-x customize-option default-frame-alist Add an entry for inhibit-double-buffering as t. Set the option value for the current session. `C-x 5 2' or in some other way get a new frame, so `default-frame-alist' kicks in. Grab the right frame edge with your mouse and move it to the right. I see a lag: the scroll bar stays where it is briefly, then finally catches up with the new position of the right frame edge. The inhibition of double buffering removes the display of a black background between the initial position (and lagging display) of the scroll bar and the new position of the right frame edge. But it doesn't remove the lag in positioning of the scroll bar adjacent to the right frame edge. There's still a transient visible gap; it just no longer has a black background. The faster you move your mouse to the new right-edge position the wider the gap. IOW, the correct redisplay seems to occur after the same time duration, so the greater the distance between the initial and final right edge positions the wider the gap you see. The bug report specifies the Emacs build I'm using. Dunno whether the problem is just with that build. If it is then maybe you won't see the problem. HTH. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 08:01:30 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 12:01:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqBQW-0006vF-5q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:01:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqBQG-0006ud-B5 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:01:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qqBPn-0001OK-AI; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:00:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=WOe92MRLetxerw0yXsp9FVV66aoarQVQt/2PIYgw7KI=; b=p9uMBaiV6oDy OKaaW/6+LGqgI22vZihSSzJjChw/0zWq+yMyFo0elH3R4OwOUpe++cv0nv2yxPr4E4uIVxhynAWgG o7U9lRe4ad1B+oJnTlWN7igElRiOy0fkHRArdceMUm6DoYo7f0Ld6LspyRyQEidFYaCzpKjxrWve6 jrO5JtGgjDvgjI6wG8M+4VXfEG5sXoOSOBgEWaNKMoU+2Jagj6De58ywbGSEjU+QLsrYIzJdr43ey iNvHl+UdgnEQ4UVpTKvoJLeOI/5L0CJhwAbnNRb/o3aGMPcngKUkgvDoalcOnyLGE7WTRAOQoADzN c9LZR4PtBNp9+7B1EEDGwg==; Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:00:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:14 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 19:49:14 +0000 > > emacs -Q > > M-x customize-option default-frame-alist > > Add an entry for inhibit-double-buffering as t. > > Set the option value for the current session. > > `C-x 5 2' or in some other way get a new frame, > so `default-frame-alist' kicks in. > > Grab the right frame edge with your mouse and > move it to the right. I see a lag: the scroll > bar stays where it is briefly, then finally > catches up with the new position of the right > frame edge. I see the same in Emacs 28, so this isn't a regression in Emacs 29. When Emacs needs to redraw the frame, it actually asks the MS-Windows GUI subsystem to do that, and the update takes time (and happens in a separate UI thread). So these small lags are expected. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 11:14:04 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 15:14:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36720 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqEQt-0005EQ-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:14:04 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:55772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqEQo-0005Dp-9T for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39AExRor012595; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:35 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=Iwx9QbMW/uB89rAKIPr+7qfK+URAHK0AsWHbxeOMqpQ=; b=tzntC0MBgll40Z9AmNbRRWi+/mhjCFcZWlz1C78X4YmHvw8Ct+RrwmnhD9YQR6Est/1y hY6gDllJF9UbJbOnAa7xVA5NNv8qsj/TxUJX1R/ZUSOraX5HWYu4wgTHJZwAihm9yXam G+tt1kz7HGO/45lvdUtWyVlEqQxwvQwnNPFvQXUcme6qJg/FdNlnjp/r2Ab42fNGD7wr oUC4spdI+cwRPUD/hfqDLHqheQIakoddDotHD9phdhml9396722EsQTM8T3hwYlwK4vU FwDntp3zfUJu9+e4eBKI3p/Yk7PSNQeXcFr9Iqia4RQBBxJIeBm8cMdxiFeJ0taAfq3j nw== Received: from iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.18.20]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjwx25g0d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:34 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39AF6RFC032096; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:33 GMT Received: from nam11-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam11lp2168.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.56.168]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tmfhq4a3e-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:33 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=VbHYHkmAtKIi8R/kKtQly/UA0VI2Z9bRFcCxLo/uLlYxSZJr/5P8Q1wa6WL8ge+U2SZidkEoRmZyDv/QVpRzoTEcZ/rp576GOqq51j1D7boPU5ZnnL8X/vTrTDyTy9ICrsx7b0QZGu8Bv67f0ys67WP3jw2ahUJ5sHkNaBHxE8DrOdsGnGUMcntw6MWxPIWS1Wk6MSI5exEBrbvg9sptuPxHayFH5HXmfR37VhcKf9DjMhuoPdNr6qno48zB6/ZhCDTdVmhNZfeZUy6aiGwV76ZC4D+JwC9G7ViepZNKnuETTOjJxap8pSHWqpWdC5/5I7dUVPq7ZJXM5hgLWjpN/Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=Iwx9QbMW/uB89rAKIPr+7qfK+URAHK0AsWHbxeOMqpQ=; b=Fl53h8t2PfpaPysELYFqNVqaUcKA6abOWFaO7TDbB/wO4CrRwpY9qufnSHBRGZhX2h130lR8UzXq8W4pjNk3tEQT9BepsAT2PDY6DOa3mAAGTZGJiyg0L5bkPBUuPQ9567GmRlXWu11FOyeICSyT5xbGIEY+A4R7RufqDKBEU8MxEfLe0F5F0bEYfnAfIoHpKrmq8ID8sYCGUpuLRkeqp1554jWbyoIzomEKohcNy6brOMK7yAsu8+V/JJBq6ffuySMM+pIopogr9xWRFyCz1pLywFxNTUZX0o6soBkuyTFMS+wdtN8139qUPIL8NwJgOTMQXs3fPrJKP96KAe5xpA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Iwx9QbMW/uB89rAKIPr+7qfK+URAHK0AsWHbxeOMqpQ=; b=HY7Oi721pPiYdyI3+mqNttn5sZGQv/lW36+MGXfpsA7WbK+Ro0eeWx3wbTTOyeEFC9DdXfK/LJPmXy1WY8Abc0Vr4UpwXel09gpJjoP/2w3CDh1UgfmpDuXEvz/b62725iJgJiOkoeLKp1zW/SCoZAnMyd219CvwkkD2/BgRJ08= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BN0PR10MB5336.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:408:114::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6863.38; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6863.032; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ+3FriS6bXVysvkajz76XuyXjo7BDHCfA Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|BN0PR10MB5336:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dc462d4e-1b89-4d52-66a5-08dbc9a36fa1 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(346002)(376002)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(230922051799003)(186009)(1800799009)(64100799003)(451199024)(9686003)(6506007)(7696005)(478600001)(71200400001)(26005)(83380400001)(2906002)(5660300002)(76116006)(66556008)(66446008)(316002)(54906003)(64756008)(66476007)(66946007)(4326008)(8676002)(8936002)(6916009)(44832011)(52536014)(41300700001)(33656002)(122000001)(38100700002)(38070700005)(55016003)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?ZZew7rBEvf+R9sS9LSMnyaC4IifzxFmjLzP+Zed7seX7xsGpNn8otZLFUzIx?= =?us-ascii?Q?Fy9PxAEQBN0Sj1EwBz/BBMn/JM4zI3Tn6cCa9aNrM/yiOzPoBxrFNhIh1k4u?= =?us-ascii?Q?DI2CRwURYyXoZ8NpMmkz5ymftDETXG2T60FQVWkHWpgNTYWMiMltPgjyp7HG?= =?us-ascii?Q?5Cqi4vbG280MzCoNbUHqGXMksL8hh6PRrATfe9tmT7uTXuzi8Yr1v13I1ZwH?= =?us-ascii?Q?/mRuuDlCSFs2FuJhnyRXrcP9/vK8vFWuQvUvDPZI4bXBZrsYZsFy0siqTIV1?= =?us-ascii?Q?WpwECQgfN2ghZB+5KWZ5/gHpd3AyYA6oEqBs/mZqc6dmCL0pzNycjM9/evYi?= =?us-ascii?Q?dolKPlCS0mqGLBWfj/fGPxTdlMG1JA8DKSoAF+lc8FJxBX473lOss7z8iYjN?= =?us-ascii?Q?FD0CYLnJ2DPo+m4xmLcZBZIA7OdIW3XYWgrQ5zYA5pZNWtZ3IcI3CUoBwm8n?= =?us-ascii?Q?7E7feDZ0yx53mi+cvIno6BvX1m9m6beLrhFGIpCChLwbQOwak5EnvE1qlNnG?= =?us-ascii?Q?YrKY3AJuv1I00UZwL9rrYln0TpPFZlXIbkM4Xk1mWLRbqZe0+gN1G/BvW7aL?= =?us-ascii?Q?M2ShLe9L+uakKPbhTcPBtRnPLFjMXDRi4zowbBf785U9PlMyuSx589DR2EOK?= =?us-ascii?Q?fDqpJjalNtQEFpBFqGilzOzaVBg2ezO4biue9aDbL5VFKWnjyV+KwwiGOPnd?= =?us-ascii?Q?q4mvhmb9QEadAk4medZYPwTZ3eauqyKA5V6Kd6xFGafH9aQ3gVv4YJacDaly?= =?us-ascii?Q?rmy58wbgIwuvp0eLG2Crd5cG5s6KWWgY5eT5uvVAyfuaY+NybBNdXKwqHRvd?= =?us-ascii?Q?vgDCGevkrUayjSUfu964pJu7sgt74roC2apK42vE0spm3blv6RW4kEsVKst5?= =?us-ascii?Q?uUyTBGJ7132JfRAW8joxn1OwMjmo44iVFLDNkvjleyWxuLEVsFmkyCyV/YyN?= =?us-ascii?Q?3gDV3l1tRXGRV3L60KfWeqaanNTLbSm4a+7cET7OmnymoA79MTRSKofMhe8y?= =?us-ascii?Q?xSTNLJTwL7Erj9RcujCMIHxTMXBDvzEtV/JwPs/uxySkkTzpa6JyHi8QQAsH?= =?us-ascii?Q?S5M8vJSwoR2y8K8yr+qbHoQNe9/3cY9+P0Qk6rAiHeHz7QNmsQtlJrRu3aeL?= =?us-ascii?Q?jfyc9iMs8tjz2VueWZSJrJEZdG3x8NKPT61RBnudnE1SwC8yw5yt2kbTiih7?= =?us-ascii?Q?oWZlnsne7a8Vi+n2bKRl1CQo3QQvMBIeA6HKze33vYhb1TBez8m5Jr4ilbTH?= =?us-ascii?Q?nwitdBXD8gSWQolIjBMuo0H1fhsjw0rcrQVFADY2Rv0aZD6EsMsIiHLItadq?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZvLa8LvvmoZy1ZLW+vjPf0InYxtMENoD+voTGjyVVPk3BRTPEL9ekHaklY2T?= =?us-ascii?Q?+WDQeG4pKVxOmawlKXzpbQfpv/xdti8a4Q7XBrsM9ZqrNTo/Cw3yi1mKwwwa?= =?us-ascii?Q?9vuICqv/QsdTZFIqCuydd4Aqm0wrHdm6jY0cQA9Ns30JGVEmSO68uu1YALnG?= =?us-ascii?Q?66K8SDCIn6mgE00yFPt09nBC23OzKQu9afRytAayHYIE3vDptms+ROAE4dad?= =?us-ascii?Q?Mj1foaWkDg+aJQDfTvTt1XssnQ6B/NMZDIiN7j0D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dc462d4e-1b89-4d52-66a5-08dbc9a36fa1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19.2618 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: BZxiKZPK3DBhBsklRQiEhAvM6cIKard1Z0GAWyP57KXzXzQKwLDz/FLQ0NVQap2FYCCHMrWDtprV2ZPWa56DaA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN0PR10MB5336 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-10_10,2023-10-10_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2310100112 X-Proofpoint-GUID: P2q69FvN_XEvXPgH5kQRdAJMd2kd8Osu X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: P2q69FvN_XEvXPgH5kQRdAJMd2kd8Osu X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I see the same in Emacs 28, so this isn't a regression in Emacs 29. > When Emacs needs to redraw the frame, it actually asks the MS-Windows > GUI subsystem to do that, and the update takes time (and happens in a > separate UI thread). So these small lags are expected. You're right about that. So that simple recipe isn't good enough. I'm guessing that you're also right about the only problem being the double-buffering. I'm guessing that for some reason things are just somewhat slower in Emacs 29 for frame display, so I notice the lingering scroll-bar position more. I think you can close this bug, the general solution being to add (inhibit-double-buffering . t) to `default-frame-alist'. ___ BTW, what's the rationale behind making this a frame parameter rather than just an option that affects all frames? Presumably there is some use case for having it ON or OFF for only specific frames or groups of frames. I'm curious what such a use case might be. Because of this choice, I need to customize both `default-frame-alist' and `special-display-frame-alist'. (I know that Emacs considers that option to be obsolete, but it's very important to me.) There are other frame-display alists, as well, and users might have still other alists governing different groups/types of frames. Again, I imagine there's a use case for this frame parameter to be a frame parameter, as opposed to just an option that affects all frames, but so far, I can't imagine what such a use case might be. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 11:36:29 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 15:36:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36731 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqEmb-0005w4-LM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:36:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56360) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqEmX-0005vm-TA for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:36:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qqEm6-0005SV-M7; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:35:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=BSCGehab/XH2Vts2FxRjHJh44jW183Yxxst+IZS8ejA=; b=cT+IQaPYQ3n1 DfkLyV0jT86idY4pNLeAznZK+GhrCh0jCJ+uwdMUjwO6padRd7anq7XhbtVQUDrleF3NbM/f8ihhK QCOLgOjs5D3FGnOw0HaHAEdzYoFe62vLkAsMfDMmhTriW0tDT1jFoz1eZYVnBNSL3TW6TDyYGgRuj BZAMwA5J+oKTyRHO4AeyXbkIbMpge0ptuAapjTIW3w5WipTgYd9m2hpNC416LNi7zNiSAPwqwZn5i RAY4wGSwjMSM9pXUP8Ze+rc5RsMS6gHrMc8aBObC2xTlKjWdpjbLR1ienV9XKDhXroeBjefHNPyyy A4zVuSyzoD56jXHzWKIvxw==; Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:35:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83edi2v6b2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:13:19 +0000 > > BTW, what's the rationale behind making this > a frame parameter rather than just an option > that affects all frames? Presumably there is > some use case for having it ON or OFF for only > specific frames or groups of frames. I'm > curious what such a use case might be. This comes from Unix, where each frame can be on a different X display, and therefore could use a different display driver. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 11:54:26 2023 Received: (at 66247) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 15:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqF3x-0006cG-Is for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:54:25 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:41270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqF3u-0006c7-U1 for 66247@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:54:24 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39AFhr0Y013741; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:54:00 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=fhNIthD5XlOvhu1fGtAid1a0EzmhQ+xwYLGcfcr6lHg=; b=u+RwKG9auJG4QjougpWX6Fkix1EQ2VSOIHYRbIldKpyzSE5KrD++2ZS1nNxTj9b9ukGw S3LGeVJzc/ZwrXZll8bEVYjShA2UdkVzkYcbskF8h0X0wra9LcEMYe9+oqvofSNvpBjn 8s4o0RcdZTVyhf+3pP/aIPL7hAD9Pe9p9NRasy3sBuCudh9i+U0ufwpCBwsmh98tw82X poGO4t4laOr26fAt82f6H6JArBc8W/wcVlX1ZTlIO22D4UTF+PO/IUKY5ldg6sG2sh5R Cuud43gHhbYxWk+n+CzLXneLVbUTaa2e/GYKsBEPj0Yb97aGuwnFDKpYdjV77npWBEul BA== Received: from iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.18.20]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjyvunh23-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:59 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39AFINeC032163; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:58 GMT Received: from nam04-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam04lp2040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.74.40]) by iadpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tmfhq6bpq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:58 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=gkRJ3d2mzdzRNOnRs+GEfLmgy+bjfOewslHzHKMgL2AniB4Ztjn0KfYcpPfZjxLU1K8Eoz7sCRfKwPXlBQSqsDrvvYonJyRAeQ4wDMgyiRKjcqcWyeB7lw/Mx9rpZUqg75Z4f4fJ2KMhqtdd5qPUB65fIwvpmAnJVxSRU0F/o5zoY/BXXqlQN3ePTSIsKcOYpHeilgp2Bix1RHKuWmx9w5RlgGt0Bosas1ilf9czJJG5bgA226vvLDdDG1WYTYJ2d183ZPSoBgeCcRSAzLf8BiGImHLVzGX/U4Q4syG0YpAX/rZ4iP3vBMFO8fp2pLcOarspxdSO2vLCY6dtP00xBw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=fhNIthD5XlOvhu1fGtAid1a0EzmhQ+xwYLGcfcr6lHg=; b=Nm9hvwIWKOOo6wr5pFilsiahBbQMTHUiHHStzzPZooiMPxWVBlg9cLZrHxFXWBATcf3NvGCMcCKNhOZb4w5avKAG2Oea8gAXMM8c9aDIWXjmouYq4BUI0vrFKLP56zFfQ/94DcqDwwFiZMfVZL3TbOWrxTULnR9/lpwUmLO1WYtsjcgJRKkF7fvrXwgS22z1C+cSQVAE5MdjhZzlLVosvTkRl3JAr0sahkZit0ZsZtZ271rBe6fE2xTSqCgV0jgpQbpJMb1R0JE/MDV4ZSLZEKnEKCyMZv4ymM5P2CBtraAsstFx1ek3iqT+pb0Z4Lvhtpw55l5Fe+RKMukIb1IdGQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=fhNIthD5XlOvhu1fGtAid1a0EzmhQ+xwYLGcfcr6lHg=; b=Azj423Zaf7Py/+FnfjHTcve7EPMYTfRVM3MI74jth+PVaM/xw8C8UNAmpkR2t5HksE75WQP62qZ0uiuuseibSqfZN3ve/eIpplU4xgXstPwYWAbSnYoezjG0PIJZOdyW8svWiQYLhOXJK/XHApgu8utYQWMelQRc77joxsx0t+A= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by IA0PR10MB7577.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:483::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6863.38; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6863.032; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ+4+CfRN7ufE6Z0WNY/B3HHcTLLBDKPEg Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> <83edi2v6b2.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83edi2v6b2.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|IA0PR10MB7577:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cac42713-cb55-4fe7-1544-08dbc9a91c49 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(396003)(136003)(366004)(230922051799003)(1800799009)(64100799003)(186009)(451199024)(55016003)(26005)(122000001)(83380400001)(38100700002)(8936002)(4326008)(8676002)(54906003)(6916009)(66946007)(66476007)(316002)(76116006)(52536014)(66446008)(66556008)(2906002)(9686003)(5660300002)(44832011)(64756008)(41300700001)(478600001)(7696005)(71200400001)(6506007)(33656002)(38070700005)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?xZfJKLFbwfAHZJKBP1BcJJ9KKBjFkmiuZIXcdtMFFtYcxxATFoNFmghdk9IT?= =?us-ascii?Q?V7JWdlMOA7qDT+YxuS67P6YkjD6/xY1vFeiaY/IkthiowJPAUQPfzXLlpFY0?= =?us-ascii?Q?7GwOP9OPTcaYcsS81KGwhKSyb+KkjA5qVTLwtn+9wTJRwiyS+u54QKynjkty?= =?us-ascii?Q?DDeJKHjry8IvC44pE1gV7llGQPucsmeR0KtQqAe6T0tqKAk4bN/f0VwGWVOg?= =?us-ascii?Q?NbgR29XJK7vpAq0P8L/F0fUflU4Xq0pwdNfJG7yClKNJ7WQlNgb5ve1Csw6I?= =?us-ascii?Q?SVUXnMJgmz9CMSMmMDHYNp4UGH2XqJU1Z1UBanDtaWU04ZBKW3sEwOVEzNbY?= =?us-ascii?Q?kfmX335iGnvap1d9USK9v97I87G5JKujuDkaRhTfJCGw3zklS7XWyokjgX5f?= =?us-ascii?Q?JjDC45XSIttyCu66fF0tT0FxqYNjce1R4JP1UT+vlKUhzbh5En90Tn9JtpG7?= =?us-ascii?Q?2gSrtXAXn5nMjXGAsHsG6SyNv1SKdaXQxaZQJ973dg3BEkOGI7ntNGlFG/e0?= =?us-ascii?Q?QmWwjqcO6Qwvjx2SPijFuBgFZyo3071encQ2X0o+2luOZHjlhnsQtHjxla84?= =?us-ascii?Q?YKcbFgI9hm7DeDMix7IIIPSecgWPlwmDCsDS4DvrP1i0Qe7JWZtat0K/OJuO?= =?us-ascii?Q?Jj4INYMRbK339IIR8bL2h7cRzWP+W4CI7IH4ju61PvUrWOmNouGJi6TMrbJN?= =?us-ascii?Q?Fb6IUMsaXrgr9nNaytC7EDevzV1NgAYpOw6FyeYUmHxTXVddw1KDcXz1SgIJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?q9U+HZMpH/fIy3dselQGZZiiJ0WVYfgDu/do+4Dj9XbjwK6RE0m7kFexjFmG?= =?us-ascii?Q?54U9HwEwqK8FlyBgi3rzMzwUXrsOI1Tan7zeF8Adp+sYFZuyx+1Hq2ma30i0?= =?us-ascii?Q?mH1OdAl2v/gyuJKmZAvdd1WTkTiDr2E4aMbEHpsDXrvmPhIghQz+oBmECZl7?= =?us-ascii?Q?N2oCxvaVZ0V5S0/llYeoT8xoDhE/enoTFHG5f3GB0yhqyq3zD4LziKfqP6fP?= =?us-ascii?Q?5+D5Y+hS+bJuuOd1OWp+ERH5uUx1n9nJEJUDVhRIQJzosFRpsnfIzgBsH868?= =?us-ascii?Q?GG7nW5YSZ0ddxsOAIPEjhmWQIm4Qw53dX49GfsIh31fONdEFYNGgqhM2jn7j?= =?us-ascii?Q?RzhABUkW3glnYQZ0+0Ul6oJNV4QPXL0PVPd5YjDGH0HlNNagp/Y72f+kfJw/?= =?us-ascii?Q?aO7ToNRcX/o30x/agIBBJLKMRbDYxRJR1eocP65EIsHvXMZK1cpQIix4yvpC?= =?us-ascii?Q?ygkHmSgVOqljz2uSheL6txfPIxKSj263qZha48OIDgOrsbUoXeRu1aGnmUTq?= =?us-ascii?Q?33LYYsw1uktAo8JV9oho6WzP92IxGrNFDc7TVEcKgIKabMaXgPp6XNcMJa3x?= =?us-ascii?Q?Gl1FmdxuDAz0ida3/055Ts6CtoZTqWItPYc+6QZD/wNSBFFV1sfwdTbNGO2U?= =?us-ascii?Q?OOIznu4k/w5/X9kJCDNPW3IzWPMAHlGSKKLplUfbaFmrtbtACD9Yhjo+xfX6?= =?us-ascii?Q?ySMkmT44AwkeeUiLB9Ef4/C0AFf81wMH4RbhLvP8XuZQDxUHOOcvBrZcHbj2?= =?us-ascii?Q?m6QLuzjwFmOrkzKZoJQLHbGyfLKUJteQUEDetB7b?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cac42713-cb55-4fe7-1544-08dbc9a91c49 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56.3804 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: PLI1aeXrJSB5elJEkLNIw9R8T+bCHwlUP3HtkTiMk37uUj3QQvYLO3cYdmYQeha75ZAg3jd+vqcSqdUPCaEPFA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA0PR10MB7577 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-10_11,2023-10-10_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2310100118 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 2XIuohWRgM37Y1D7Kq8VAGEZcjrOce0h X-Proofpoint-GUID: 2XIuohWRgM37Y1D7Kq8VAGEZcjrOce0h X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247 Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > BTW, what's the rationale behind making this > > a frame parameter rather than just an option > > that affects all frames? Presumably there is > > some use case for having it ON or OFF for only > > specific frames or groups of frames. I'm > > curious what such a use case might be. >=20 > This comes from Unix, where each frame can be on a different X > display, and therefore could use a different display driver. Aha! Now it makes sense to me (it's been a long time since I used X Window). I wonder whether it might make sense for the doc to say something about this? Maybe more importantly I wonder whether it might make sense to add a user option that has the effect of turning on/off double-buffering for all frames. If that were done, there'd be two possibilities for how to handle the combination of that option with the frame parameter: 1. The option value always overrides the frame parameter. 2. The frame parameter always overrides the option. Maybe #2 makes more sense. Alternatively, the option could have more values than just on/off: . ON, and option overrides frame parameter . OFF, and option overrides frame parameter . ON, and frame parameter overrides option . OFF, and frame parameter overrides option Do you think it would be good to add an option? If so, maybe its default value should depend on the `system-type'? E.g., for `windows-nt' it could default to ON, with option overriding frame parameter, and for other `system-type's it could default to ON, with frame parameter overriding option. I know you think that even for most MS Windows users the default value should be ON. The point of having an option would be to simplify turning the behavior on/off. If the use case for using the frame parameter is limited to what you described, then maybe most users (even on UNIX-like platforms) would appreciate a simple option. Anyway, this is OT for this bug, which can be closed, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 14:47:33 2023 Received: (at 66247-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 18:47:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36887 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqHlV-00043R-4Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:47:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqHlR-00043C-4y for 66247-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:47:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qqHkz-0005wa-UI; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:47:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MK7DvEnedBaDaEgfYxaOON8spfJvYnW0xiHwrWYmw6Q=; b=O32uxVddPlNU PfA3I/eH8nmm4JYP9BWe8GV4UajmqPRu++AkDC+I4oy6SI7A7XVCOZ8Yb2c/TRwwcVVbnwrH0aTrZ RehyvFd0xdNLbGcKlBaU9K1EsZOHKrLKPCWCgerOybbfaF4GEIPHhm9zQzecZdxzYgHwvrpJZvnWW 5rjrQdpm3Z+iWIaqQaWFEpjob8tHIUl1mInr3SHOlNUhC94/dPooNJCY/yqhWekwVSOaIGJX4rKs5 rOPZYqZec366fpCzj/JrZupSJFT7HSpOHlzimCnrGyqB/jClJwqLBqxwM8Kp9o4am8Wt8YXTBm7Gu Jh6GCiJ504hKyWYZDjAs/Q==; Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:46:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83cyxmuxgj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> <83edi2v6b2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247-done Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 66247-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , > "66247@debbugs.gnu.org" > <66247@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:53:56 +0000 > > > > BTW, what's the rationale behind making this > > > a frame parameter rather than just an option > > > that affects all frames? Presumably there is > > > some use case for having it ON or OFF for only > > > specific frames or groups of frames. I'm > > > curious what such a use case might be. > > > > This comes from Unix, where each frame can be on a different X > > display, and therefore could use a different display driver. > > Aha! Now it makes sense to me (it's been a long > time since I used X Window). > > I wonder whether it might make sense for the doc > to say something about this? > > Maybe more importantly I wonder whether it might > make sense to add a user option that has the > effect of turning on/off double-buffering for > all frames. We already have that, for every frame-parameter: customize both initial-frame-alist and default-frame-alist. Why do we need something else, and why should this particular parameter be different from all the other frame parameters? > Do you think it would be good to add an option? No, I think it would be a needless complication. > Anyway, this is OT for this bug, which can be > closed, IMO. Done. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 10 17:27:34 2023 Received: (at 66247-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Oct 2023 21:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37016 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqKGL-0004J4-RY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:27:34 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:46378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qqKGG-0004Io-Uu for 66247-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:27:32 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39AJiDHw023397; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:06 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=RwLJPcJTyW7MSrR/Q1KWmAFoS8DQvjzdZ8rsPeEbno4=; b=JVxFm0C6YfKESu9YyxCKAj9C5/otObHfHxr1j57NFDz2AB5/3eB8wShStEKjnKHRHKtB +q1tgqk81EEXKoc4H1+Cegr4YDoENNAiXb9qqFODJoVmnRYQwSHxbJwF9cK4m/+n6xbg sRNayHgu5O1fnHgTAiHMz0bzcNxXCK1o7T0DjCwbjuSIwXl34NRIjocrPJy32SKi4p0w y6IrduvM3bT8QQcAmRT1M0FbLy29uDx7uiwS2EqNgwteOR3suPqK3PLHk3hik5/Qdf89 6Fc42aG8KkLlx/cziKPFBW+fXxOk2R7ZlTgc8+Akfnqt0X+/xrQ+Wxa6Nuda1ZXxeEzH lQ== Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjx43pgb0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:06 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39ALCWCD004890; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:05 GMT Received: from nam11-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11lp2169.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.57.169]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3tjws7ah3u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:05 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=UHdEW+ZlErV7E7asMLUTKpjt3gn1kgDLiCvQuHm80yBVVatdGozrIiscYh2hNM/A+7avfi4AdfTcuuhBtIpfFCQfwfAqEoepqaZ95Uk+HETzCj8x/92uZvZ1b3hzfVwURYX+UGqot+UCRX6CjL4sq6g2adPTdR3bDMcXOTO3a+62xfunk2N7yXQPtfvJ0f+tojVm6j8Wo1zr1h2TGMLvlkanHcT/BXH98DM+KNrBnbUJHltZbSkDXuPnSd9W6kglN9pSTy9y9/wr4lNZ1evyYMbuFQ46cM678TktdaiIzUSQpwdo9U/jIZSGvpZOLgGuNcU4jqutTr2GHyOL0PiPSg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=RwLJPcJTyW7MSrR/Q1KWmAFoS8DQvjzdZ8rsPeEbno4=; b=T8HSP4oMnwiOVIrNOjS4ckVXDQa4vCVkDHUGc2LQ47ZljRKFAtB8erv4GCV0C6X+t4pk/7y+IPSJ8TwmMqi1nEHgwcYC4EnbhtFfGlUHO8oaYSde3KsXCzUD77eEDza1cu57gBweejzZCyLpe1U4Id6LGNKbiG+RfzMo9bRrb5NVE9hoQcdSLecsf3r+bVJvVgGr5/68Ic1ZV9mICHx+fXdvybwaPuw5NuL7q3GBGKfGEb5LC/k7ZgQPjB41evZTyi+AswMr4crtWhSZhujOopzw2HrEOz5a8o3TrQImZrWzRKcBrkjM5+NSuoEVlFOrxAtbQvUNRUWZAINzD6MH7g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=RwLJPcJTyW7MSrR/Q1KWmAFoS8DQvjzdZ8rsPeEbno4=; b=cgt8xLQzA2j/IExBpZSxBHum32bH3F4axBemFkTYAqPkTTamj/iTVgr0HquISkGLv9b/zm5a4+K7M8yOxrK6Gq5rQ+kUZJ05bHkwa0cuMXtYed4NceVyiYJSgBnZHeH2fgK8jX1qQAvc3TKVxXn2yiHhZW4UYev1z9dpcBROOF0= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SA1PR10MB7738.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:3ac::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6863.38; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:03 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b51:2934:65de:6344%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6863.032; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:03 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66247: 29.1; Transient frame problems with Emacs 29 on MS Windows Thread-Index: AQHZ+6oriZ1XbxYmYUqgaExsGgVwerBDh/yQ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 21:27:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1gpn5a9.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ttrdn16x.fsf@yahoo.com> <83jzs9x7n8.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttrbaiba.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg0rvd4s.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0m2vga2.fsf@gnu.org> <83edi2v6b2.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyxmuxgj.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83cyxmuxgj.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|SA1PR10MB7738:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7dec9dd6-c3bb-4761-28c5-08dbc9d7a57c x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(346002)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(230922051799003)(1800799009)(64100799003)(186009)(451199024)(9686003)(33656002)(55016003)(38100700002)(86362001)(38070700005)(122000001)(6506007)(26005)(76116006)(44832011)(2906002)(4744005)(71200400001)(7696005)(478600001)(6916009)(52536014)(8936002)(8676002)(4326008)(41300700001)(66446008)(54906003)(5660300002)(66946007)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(316002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?HNhACYjnlQc6PuP9fwpKqcRRa/tlnW9KbQfG07OWkG8HF2zuCBhYhcK4DZwy?= =?us-ascii?Q?3i7GjF3L/Ipx1W3LHGPHhDuA0pytn0StehQ2No+L3P7Imuo13TKpehcR38jm?= =?us-ascii?Q?VWXof79zI+ZhJ1qq1tQ8zfUUYGFFyHWZ1rn15YiXlb6d9H3gmqhE9MxsMuc3?= =?us-ascii?Q?YI5ULezHZWNlU2ybYwIxu9p9k/wp9itH6NFbxOD7ftXo11HsQk1+PFyRp+1r?= =?us-ascii?Q?rWlJ5cE6pXbK/M7X+bUF2RoXbaECaF8FzO96+lNsHn98CMg23/Rkd1EHjiz5?= =?us-ascii?Q?aJxxc6FkS5HmGX9C4oe12nd2m6hddKnm/38/f0ZOYoBIosF/TnSWA+MOSwgP?= =?us-ascii?Q?rGfsCNgwcJD2iLhAa5fPSaQkbdfHe7z16at4sv6S4RqNlI1zG9ZZ5UP06tL+?= =?us-ascii?Q?Hh4WaQfIWroM9gA/Iqr+DqdeukKXn5AloiqQRNI6phIVUjBEwCItHD5Fvzt0?= =?us-ascii?Q?+JGj2beEhjPdXH8UJezhKYgC7qPn0DEHjj2W7wTSsYoW5gKLI1IvM+GasQqc?= =?us-ascii?Q?u7gFQRe+5cI/7aOBg3a9PqgT1CQJRsFnzewW2ogz9uyzjwzQBpH0xnwtqsiO?= =?us-ascii?Q?YXuWkxXtMhxwWiz61E7KnjQWQvFUpHOVdIVLpK+lC3ZARm3xhixKC/wkAbnt?= =?us-ascii?Q?1pHAQfLftdcmz6Q7EWoCmdlVCtXKI6sv+uWP2oYDhzapyPMnGxVj8gCOMnjq?= =?us-ascii?Q?p+/MXUXmdyRA6Dq8Ts2v3XHeWzzbNQd3Ive/8etNhfWR71tTQhdMejLbTAbO?= =?us-ascii?Q?P5r+XwENj66uxWWaC4y2RXaA2l1DOY1SiRRyBrF3yCNrff/aYCbMzxxNyDfz?= =?us-ascii?Q?ETBIs3iiIGyO3qTrOtuH3j4lwFyyict480qy1keRYMHVIs/KdPLY54ipK4eD?= =?us-ascii?Q?X0ldEoWBvxC7VYJ/23j6gHbI78dpVHQBwoOEFn+YZ5YEGgN56oyc5xR6J6z1?= =?us-ascii?Q?t3/9qlwUHcEcpb+hpE9jgXm8QpOmTGRoMkvcJT/uSTUF8jqsmvXWT4WcDlxq?= =?us-ascii?Q?TVXcPRp3WzYPCZQndoCHNPRN0SWp+QNjXNiuOt/VThHvD7Zbxq7K/jZ67h1B?= =?us-ascii?Q?2NOpdxfSj+Z/QnvkIN9gSzcyoscffEbdhHDFvTOCSkRf0y5so1PcUs7DRSb2?= =?us-ascii?Q?eI+So6b/UdtcxuXMuzLhfAsssStSR72Hb9NNBwNO0sYViwSDXCAuRYPr/eB7?= =?us-ascii?Q?5EB7fBUXK3d+01bIhAfhlpL4iW3yHHgts16jCMMVlajwHAztZzqLpO9OSNJ1?= =?us-ascii?Q?Ib3l2FQrwy4Y1EWLcywmZ+mgQUSvt5Nbc+bP/ypEjPZCtKbQadlMC9sks0xk?= =?us-ascii?Q?r16AbFMKM0hDuwnNYDu1GpLKC6zcBRWi1H8c4clhSPd/1HnzNaBI0Y2fKuFw?= =?us-ascii?Q?Utq90dBWTQNH9JawvNkha5Q20KOgK6/wR5uRa1Xf4WiQzvEr2W4w29bkU7Wj?= =?us-ascii?Q?u7xzk8M6R8Neb/XMm9AVA89iF1J+l86GDsP6z0MlL4vW5iFbdSeqxfbNzOw8?= =?us-ascii?Q?6YkqJKHT8wXQV/1icZOj68ThbbfufTDIJZjYiOKaTw+0A2mD/nK/bJnoAkU7?= =?us-ascii?Q?U3QARe/H58kGqxOT2xisD3XD9tg4Z2LLDigUE/jm?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7dec9dd6-c3bb-4761-28c5-08dbc9d7a57c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Oct 2023 21:27:03.4268 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WfvOzXrA5oCgfYR8pXg6Y2gmMOezLa7RSCUuTF7N6y1hWa7GKhF6peaZh0qVDia/d94bjZDw0KL6GmrRUAbWKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR10MB7738 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-10_17,2023-10-10_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2309180000 definitions=main-2310100165 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 0FjTYSONPUoaO7bVMlJa0jY3Lz5fBMTS X-Proofpoint-GUID: 0FjTYSONPUoaO7bVMlJa0jY3Lz5fBMTS X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66247-done Cc: "luangruo@yahoo.com" , "66247-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <66247-done@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > I wonder whether it might make sense for the doc > > to say something about this? ? > > Maybe more importantly I wonder whether it might > > make sense to add a user option that has the > > effect of turning on/off double-buffering for > > all frames. >=20 > We already have that, for every frame-parameter: customize both > initial-frame-alist and default-frame-alist. Why do we need something > else, and why should this particular parameter be different from all > the other frame parameters? There are several more `*-frame-alist' variables than those two. `M-x apropos frame-alist'. And user code can create still more. From unknown Thu Jun 19 16:24:15 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator