From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:47:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6595: 24.0.50; tooltip doc Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 6595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 6595@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.127869954923864 (code B ref -1); Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:20:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2010 18:19:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXIAG-0006Cr-Tx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:19:09 -0400 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXIAE-0006CZ-Fa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:19:06 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:55661) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OXHmW-0006Cx-Fu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:54:36 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38385 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OXHmQ-0007EL-Ih for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:54:35 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXHmM-0003cm-6u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:54:27 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:29397) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OXHmL-0003cf-Ut for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:54:26 -0400 Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o69HsNsn010849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:54:24 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o69HsM6j024921 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:54:22 GMT Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 413632391278697973; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 10:52:53 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.236.134) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 10:52:52 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:52:51 -0700 Message-ID: <0ECC610AE06B44FC881DEDD9EF12442D@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acsfj4zZNjj22hJeRa+rNMyLyDUtXQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4C37624F.0048:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) The tooltip doc is not so great. Node Tooltips of the Emacs manual says nothing about tooltip mode being enabled by default. And it says nothing about option `tooltip-use-echo-area'. More generally, it nowhere explains clearly what the recommended way of moving help to the echo area is (i.e. not using tooltips). There is an option, `tooltip-use-echo-area', whose doc tells you that if you want help to appear in the echo area then you should customize this to non-nil and enable tooltip mode. But why? Why is there this separate option, in addition to the option `tooltip-mode', whose customization to nil has the same effect of moving help to the echo area? This is not clear to me. Either there is a design flaw - perhaps `tooltip-use-echo-area' should be removed, or more likely something is simply missing from the doc. Please explain - make this topic clear to users. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-06-28 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:47:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6595: 24.0.50; tooltip doc Resent-From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:09:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 6595@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6595.13106021426002 (code B ref 6595); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:09:03 +0000 Received: (at 6595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 00:09:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9UC-0001Yf-Pp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:09:01 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9UA-0001YU-QE for 6595@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:08:59 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9Tw-0007jW-Gh; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:44 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <0ECC610AE06B44FC881DEDD9EF12442D@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:52:51 -0700") Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:37 +0200 Message-ID: References: <0ECC610AE06B44FC881DEDD9EF12442D@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Depeche Mode's _A Broken Frame_: "Further Excerpts From: My Secret Garden" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110714:6595@debbugs.gnu.org::HBknP8Mwtcu0RuUp:000000000000000000000000000000000000000001PUA X-Hashcash: 1:23:110714:drew.adams@oracle.com::qL0GDbcMaUNVAmqI:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001OLRn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qh9Tw-0007jW-Gh X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311206925.10851@mSFwv4glOvAJU2lVIiNtBQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > The tooltip doc is not so great. > > Node Tooltips of the Emacs manual says nothing about tooltip mode being > enabled by default. And it says nothing about option > `tooltip-use-echo-area'. > > More generally, it nowhere explains clearly what the recommended way of > moving help to the echo area is (i.e. not using tooltips). There is an > option, `tooltip-use-echo-area', whose doc tells you that if you want > help to appear in the echo area then you should customize this to > non-nil and enable tooltip mode. It says (now): You can toggle display of help tooltips (Tooltip mode) with the command @kbd{M-x tooltip-mode}. When Tooltip mode is disabled, the help text is displayed in the echo area instead. Which I think is clear enough. > This is not clear to me. Either there is a design flaw - perhaps > `tooltip-use-echo-area' should be removed, or more likely something is > simply missing from the doc. Please explain - make this topic clear to > users. I think `tooltip-use-echo-area' should be obsoleted -- as you point out, it seems nonsensical. Does anybody know why `tooltip-use-echo-area' exists? Hysterical raisins? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Sun Jun 22 22:47:50 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#6595: 24.0.50; tooltip doc Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Cc: Drew Adams , 6595@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 6595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6595.132772714525220 (code B ref 6595); Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 6595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2012 05:05:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47359 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0Ts-0006Yb-1Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:05:44 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:39100 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0Tl-0006YJ-N3 for 6595@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:05:38 -0500 Received: from bb121-7-229-168.singnet.com.sg ([121.7.229.168]:38709 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0T4-0008QY-FF; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:04:51 -0500 From: Chong Yidong References: <0ECC610AE06B44FC881DEDD9EF12442D@us.oracle.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:04:41 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2011 02:08:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87ehuk76za.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > I think `tooltip-use-echo-area' should be obsoleted -- as you point > out, it seems nonsensical. > > Does anybody know why `tooltip-use-echo-area' exists? Hysterical > raisins? If I'm not wrong, Emacs used to have a more limited facility for showing echo area tips without going through tooltip.el. Nowadays both graphical and echo area tooltips use tooltip.el. I've marked `tooltip-use-echo-area' as obsolete. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 28 00:05:55 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2012 05:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0U6-0006ZB-7F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:05:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:39109 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0U4-0006Z1-Go for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:05:53 -0500 Received: from bb121-7-229-168.singnet.com.sg ([121.7.229.168]:38710 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rr0TO-0008VY-Fl for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:05:11 -0500 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 6595 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:05:00 +0800 Message-ID: <87ty3gs9hf.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) close 6595 thanks