From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 00:53:56 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2010 04:53:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWMdv-0000pE-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:55 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWMdu-0000p9-7c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:54 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:46488) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OWMdq-0007vU-VC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:50 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38047 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWMdo-0004Dy-No for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWMdn-0001CN-7N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:48 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:51494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWMdm-0001C5-Ve for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:53:47 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o674riS8007622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:53:45 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o670he90002361 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:53:42 GMT Received: from abhmt020.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 384801701278478390; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:53:10 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.254.201) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:53:10 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; defcustom :set does not apply to `set-variable' Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:52:59 -0700 Message-ID: <7AE1FD06C5674B68B58CAFD6896A6C4C@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcsdLkCnjII/6YhPTSW2F0HB5Hyp0gAYd0Nw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4C340858.00D9:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) [Tried to send this earlier, but there was a mail delivery problem, for some reason. Trying again.] ---- If you use a :set entry for defcustom, it is not respected by `set-variable'. It should be. When a user uses `M-x set-variable' s?he should get the effect of :set. Otherwise, the defcustom is not serving its purpose. defcustom is not only for Customize - it needs to work with `set-variable' also. And it does, for :type; but it does not, for :set. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-06-28 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 18:52:42 2019 Received: (at 6578) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 22:52:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZT7-0003wS-Ow for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:52:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:44668) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZT5-0003wI-Ku for 6578@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:52:40 -0400 Received: from [76.14.1.154] (helo=sandy) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZT2-0007MD-1H; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:52:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#6578: 24.0.50; defcustom :set does not apply to `set-variable' References: <7AE1FD06C5674B68B58CAFD6896A6C4C@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 15:52:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: <7AE1FD06C5674B68B58CAFD6896A6C4C@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:52:59 -0700") Message-ID: <87r25euo5q.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Drew Adams" writes: > [Tried to send this earlier, but there was a mail delivery problem, for some > reason. Trying again.] > > ---- > > If you use a :set entry for defcustom, it is not respected by > `set-variable'. It [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6578 Cc: 6578@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Drew Adams" writes: > [Tried to send this earlier, but there was a mail delivery problem, for s= ome > reason. Trying again.] > > ---- > > If you use a :set entry for defcustom, it is not respected by > `set-variable'. It should be. When a user uses `M-x set-variable' s?he > should get the effect of :set. Otherwise, the defcustom is not serving > its purpose. defcustom is not only for Customize - it needs to work > with `set-variable' also. And it does, for :type; but it does not, for > :set. This is apparently by design: ---- Note that this function is at heart equivalent to the basic =E2=80=98set=E2= =80=99 function. For a variable defined with =E2=80=98defcustom=E2=80=99, it does not pay at= tention to any :set property that the variable might have (if you want that, use M-x customize-set-variable instead). ---- So I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 18:52:48 2019 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 22:52:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36759 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZTE-0003wl-0R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:52:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]:44682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZTC-0003wd-8c for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:52:46 -0400 Received: from [76.14.1.154] (helo=sandy) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i0ZT9-0007MO-BJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:52:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 15:52:41 -0700 Message-Id: <87pnkyuo5i.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #6578 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 6578 notabug close 6578 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 6578 notabug close 6578 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 21 19:39:27 2019 Received: (at 6578) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2019 23:39:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0aCN-0007GL-Cr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:39:27 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:43894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0aCL-0007G9-Mr for 6578@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:39:26 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7LNd2n6018826; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:39:19 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=eq/tRQeS0iGNvzU/+rxUcSpNtcjVhgLKKT8DpjIDSAU=; b=MR2yPkV99wPesjiSL1G0P9RyJDaqYzRhtVEa3ILK2XcwCanGK1ZZcdTBNoA8MXf4mcU1 PS+jRi0N6X6MgXRfqDXhwunGTUeW/jdE0S70V1UJe74vBNjVW0WxNyEax4pfqwd6E1Lj ooC7fGARFBf2uTRS+wojP9u+meK/N7TQSBT6Kv469TlfZc7afLCEEsIgz+ZKlYQ4tq93 NrzdDMrXUdjcH2r0lzJU1ilXpwkzGmFbFFcCfg1JPkrSr+JFQls507a/vKVzM+SNMqD5 aBjYSOvxaIomAtXK8gzQwN7tXFlgbyyrSvMcwVzgQYzUlaS4L4IK21mUbWA1fzhZc/Jr hQ== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uea7r1484-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:39:19 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x7LNbqni118092; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:39:19 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uh83p97au-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:39:19 +0000 Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x7LNdEYx001602; Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:39:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <52f8fea3-f1b9-44ae-9df2-4ecb70445f39@default> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: bug#6578: 24.0.50; defcustom :set does not apply to `set-variable' References: <7AE1FD06C5674B68B58CAFD6896A6C4C@us.oracle.com> <87r25euo5q.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87r25euo5q.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210232 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9355 signatures=668684 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1908210232 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6578 Cc: 6578@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > If you use a :set entry for defcustom, it is not > > respected by `set-variable'. It should be. When > > a user uses `M-x set-variable' s?he should get the > > effect of :set. Otherwise, the defcustom is not > > serving its purpose. defcustom is not only for > > Customize - it needs to work with `set-variable' > > also. And it does, for :type; but it does not, > > for :set. >=20 > This is apparently by design: >=20 > ---- > Note that this function is at heart equivalent to the basic =E2=80=98set= =E2=80=99 > function. > For a variable defined with =E2=80=98defcustom=E2=80=99, it does not pay = attention to > any :set property that the variable might have (if you want that, use > M-x customize-set-variable instead). > ---- I know (and knew) that the behavior is documented. That doesn't mean it's good. This is an enhancement request: it "_should_" provide the effect of :set. Anything else is just a gotcha, inviting problems. We document the weak behavior, because it is what it is. We should document it, whatever it is. That doesn't make it good. What's more, `customize-set-variable' isn't even documented in the Emacs or Elisp manuals. `set-variable' is (in the Emacs manual), and it even has an index entry. What's more, (emacs) `Examining' says that "The most convenient way to set a specific customizable variable is with `set-variable'. That's an endorsement/recommendation, and it can get users into trouble. That doc should perhaps use `customize-set-variable' instead. More generally, perhaps some harmonizing of behavior/features is in order, among `set-variable', `customize-set-variable', and `customize-set-value'. Users can be excused for being confused, and they can get into trouble when they set an option value using just `set-variable' or `setq', if it has a :set function. Emacs should be enhanced to clear up the confusing differences and clear up the doc recommendations. > So I'm closing this bug report. Unfortunate. Someone might have implemented the enhancement someday. From unknown Tue Jun 17 20:39:18 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator