From unknown Mon Aug 18 08:55:01 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#6572 <6572@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#6572 <6572@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' Reply-To: bug#6572 <6572@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 15:55:01 +0000 retitle 6572 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' reassign 6572 emacs submitter 6572 "Drew Adams" severity 6572 wishlist tag 6572 wontfix thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 12:01:09 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2010 16:01:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAa5-00012y-7s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:01:09 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAa1-00012b-Uf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:01:07 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:51250) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAZw-0005MH-8B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:01:00 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54807 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWAZt-0006GY-2x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:00:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAZk-0004mk-Oa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:00:50 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:46856) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAZk-0004m5-Ja for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:00:48 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o66G0dXi009641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:00:41 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o66FO5wC022482 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:00:37 GMT Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 401965951278431954; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:59:14 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.80.58) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:59:13 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:59:19 -0700 Message-ID: <4995D102D3EE4EEF8E667EAE41D707DD@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcsdJDEVwbMQGss+S+mHRkkBCwxEYQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4C335325.0169:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) If the defcustom :type is (restricted-sexp...), and you try to customize to a value that does not respect this :type, you get a generic error message: "The specified value is not valid". This message could & should be more specific, referencing the sexp that defines the restriction the value should respect. E.g. if :type is: (restricted-sexp :match-alternatives 'natnump) Then the message would be more helpful if it said something like this: "Specified value does not satisfy `natnump'" If :type is: (restricted-sexp :match-alternatives (lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))) Then this message is more helpful: "Specified value does not satisfy `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" If :type is: (restricted-sexp :match-alternatives (integerp 't 'nil)) Then this message is more helpful: "Specified value does not satisfy `(integerp 't 'nil)'" In all cases, it is better to give the user some indication of what the value should be, even if that is via a Lisp sexp. Yes, the doc string should make clear the permissible values, but this additional info in the message can also help. It is at least as helpful as the ubiquitous message "(wrong-type-argument integerp "abc")". In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-06-28 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/xpm/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 09 10:55:37 2022 Received: (at 6572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2022 14:55:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59180 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no4nR-00037L-78 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:55:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no4nO-000373-NY for 6572@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:55:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=a/apbtAnVV/UsIljF308UHFBtUVu7W91sa3P8VUIGUE=; b=J5iHQBZmoGrSLeORXuLTXEIE5i Vbbdnt4lFZLtHh37QYYLjRxJQw+FuMP7oqlsBsJxIKVmH8CxolO/aDLOF1YGYpSB/GulXTygww8Rz iezODieY/ASkWQpYZgXMu1ml2y05Av5NH5EO9osziW5e0cQKyoPbePkeT19elXNBx0R0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1no4nD-00071N-E3; Mon, 09 May 2022 16:55:26 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#6572: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' References: <4995D102D3EE4EEF8E667EAE41D707DD@us.oracle.com> X-Now-Playing: Kate Bush's _The Dreaming_: "Sat In Your Lap" Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 16:55:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4995D102D3EE4EEF8E667EAE41D707DD@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:59:19 -0700") Message-ID: <87o8064uxx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: "Drew Adams" writes: > If the defcustom :type is (restricted-sexp...), and you try to customize > to a value that does not respect this :type, you get a generic error > message: "The specified value is not valid". > > Thi [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6572 Cc: 6572@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: > If the defcustom :type is (restricted-sexp...), and you try to customize > to a value that does not respect this :type, you get a generic error > message: "The specified value is not valid". > > This message could & should be more specific, referencing the sexp that > defines the restriction the value should respect. E.g. if :type is: > > (restricted-sexp :match-alternatives 'natnump) > > Then the message would be more helpful if it said something like this: > > "Specified value does not satisfy `natnump'" > > If :type is: > > (restricted-sexp :match-alternatives > (lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))) > > Then this message is more helpful: > > "Specified value does not satisfy > `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) Well, I can see the charm of doing something like this, but the Customize interface is for users, and telling them "Specified value does not satisfy `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" is way too nerdy even for Emacs. Users should look at the doc string that will explain this to them in words. So I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 09 10:55:46 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2022 14:55:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no4na-00037h-EK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:55:46 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no4nS-00037B-Es for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:55:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0dRK5WNgLlOyYtr4WAZYD0dMe4WlC6eiAPdI0WYgzCw=; b=X1u4a1wzLog5QLtEvbf9ZyopsD qYk3lICH86+lazVRTgyNnx8mHdsqmRDbj+mj8f+l6nRZ1TqE0vqJeop1pWfvmOtJBpRiWP6a4IVTb wxrwGPlxU0BosAbrBvM3wDKayPPIBKe7Gzisvt2XN6/eU0xdIVcopZqjrEYmY5xAoHC4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1no4nK-00071W-Qi for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 16:55:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 16:55:29 +0200 Message-Id: <87mtfq4uxq.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #6572 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 12b51674-2c44-4e4f-14ad-08da31cfd220 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 May 2022 15:23:07.9343 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Hr/Lw3Gc5K+h8Gh5Z3aveILa0Bgt6BA4a8rfxPqCbrPF7ynapBQi/QRzwRctSN3W7TDLbZGltGpRbpqOTaWgaA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR10MB2881 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.486, 18.0.858 definitions=2022-05-09_04:2022-05-09, 2022-05-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=780 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205090087 X-Proofpoint-GUID: WT9wiu5YOcHx80p-apZDpYA8jMiUzwyg X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: WT9wiu5YOcHx80p-apZDpYA8jMiUzwyg X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6572 Cc: "6572@debbugs.gnu.org" <6572@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > This message could & should be more specific, > > referencing the sexp that defines the restriction > > the value should respect. E.g., if :type is: > > > > (restricted-sexp > > :match-alternatives > > (lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))) > > > > Then this message is more helpful: > > > > "Specified value does not satisfy > > `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" And it's not difficult to provide that help. > Well, I can see the charm of doing something like this,=20 > but the Customize interface is for users, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, it is. And that's who we should help, by fixing this as suggested: users. In this case, users who try to provide a value that's required, as specified by that restricted-sexp. > and telling them >=20 > "Specified value does not satisfy > `(lambda (x) (and (foop x) (not (barp x))))'" >=20 > is way too nerdy even for Emacs. Users should look=20 > at the doc string that will explain this to them in words. >=20 > So I'm closing this bug report. It's not about "charm". It's about helping users. Users of Customize include everyone, including users who can understand Lisp. If a user doesn't understand that improved message, s?he's more likely to get help from others by providing that helpful message. A doc string is important. That doesn't mean we can't also have better error messages. Yet another too-bad "I just love closing bugs". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 09 11:58:03 2022 Received: (at 6572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2022 15:58:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no5lr-000712-DW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:58:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1no5lp-00070Y-2d for 6572@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:58:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54212) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5le-0002tz-Kb; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:57:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=L3gL6L6VYJ9k1DAwysikqaZxCceGuqkXRlJSZ4QOzLg=; b=YZVgwn/HZ5fK LESaEYQ6bwmW8o3NfZgClqtiBAaf8bTjbW1dfWwtWD5w4fKiEsoqi5DoLy/H9wkmIvRAAArcwGwSk 8r73CyfvnVXEVZd2uSid6VUjlLlSDF3sK7Mgik7BD1TtZ9ajUfIwFQP5a+jFTeSMxdzZXFCQEKf8O 0v4LR/2+VP9Rql7kxNxX8SyShMcKT98kdtCgIFztpbt9cegFizAhILWQ9q9QoaVmc3CS0WjhLbEd6 HHpIp0ymsmj9yzhuS5VxOL9T7mx5QSABDKArEXO8ZAjVfLbJc48u7lwDwUHmiXv5EvIBScwxs5tPq arLu5jniMnS7vNzfAWO4/w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1188 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5lW-0005QZ-Tu; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:57:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 18:57:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83mtfqu2a5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:07 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#6572: 24.0.50; error string from `custom-variable-set' References: <4995D102D3EE4EEF8E667EAE41D707DD@us.oracle.com> <87o8064uxx.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6572 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 6572@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:23:07 +0000 > > Yet another too-bad "I just love closing bugs". And yet another case of Drew's being unable to accept that the maintainers' judgment can legitimately be different from his. From unknown Mon Aug 18 08:55:01 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2022 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator