From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 16 20:47:49 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 00:47:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWRAz-0008WT-Ga for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 20:47:49 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:48792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWRAv-0008Vf-Ij for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 20:47:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWRAq-0006Ln-4C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 20:47:40 -0400 Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWRAn-0005yh-Um for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Aug 2023 20:47:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 00:47:28 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692233256; x=1692492456; bh=oyX6k0MPwqyKF2gpItf+W+ivkBUsU+oFs+vxZycaJQo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=tM1H4TaGxXHaJkRGLCydzIRhYi7R9hpq6dw0NvoQtwCslDWD3/KiKfma/aIQdEyN4 iHTcaoqDZmunXjPYTLjNBpZnIo5h1Bod7nQuVPEnAVZBDMgm7Eqw7lwevXFN6tWnI5 1z4rnt1UD0qhnb7YsNVbnocSo6ls+9h9diUUZKFYRmljlYs7gIR9tWikmkNOSfckXd lcZsGfc0FVkqXxjCBLVkHMQck1AQsMGe5quCJqn1neOq+XuCX6ZfapdM/qOoEEyaWf 1Dyyde0EU+kGvY1L8zQ52yDQLW5kkG5NCMM9UViOKbPH8vkoIx/9EalAqc1c4Smx9W OtfCMZpevig2A== To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" From: Heime Subject: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.25; envelope-from=heimeborgia@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4325.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Have seen that when I include INITIAL-INPUT that happens to be the first en= try=20 in the collection COLLECJ, the entry "barwedge" is displayed twice consecut= ively. But such situation does not happen when selecting a different entry from co= llection. (let ( (collecj '("barwedge" "boxdot" "boxminus" "boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "barwedge") From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 01:49:21 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 05:49:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWVsn-0002oh-DD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 01:49:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWVsl-0002oT-AC for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 01:49:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWVsf-0003nn-Vw; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 01:49:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=wZy2pI19tSgGkLV1Rwgb39g3xxQQNFWvdDcxcjMe3SA=; b=BqKhHPs8l47M CtObtQnmht67TH2Cyq+/VX1QNRIO/FJ6Yt3SNNq3ubtDnodrSZk8W3mUxjC9BbLJbRHiH2B1wFhde LHXeOXArudSBEPdbMyQ+vsOf+rEcmLmQBpL7COvAx+N2fobdHQdgXv5AKukzBjRKjUF46ROyEJN32 xkW/nxOkEwLmeJyp3BSdIcnOhlGzFb3Xp/a4JvfELqLgbA4XfkTwSAOFcqtWn3gBdX9V8mIDV7h+6 DXTYG5VUhpoCwi2Ap1gv/aP3ESyXIZuvIUS8NBDdVMtUZd73hB+xGuz1zaa84hd6+Vv2PNysAg+9G 9pC9axfk324MvnphOp2clQ==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:49:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 00:47:28 +0000 > From: Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > > Have seen that when I include INITIAL-INPUT that happens to be the first entry > in the collection COLLECJ, the entry "barwedge" is displayed twice consecutively. > > But such situation does not happen when selecting a different entry from collection. > > (let ( (collecj '("barwedge" "boxdot" "boxminus" "boxplus" > "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" > > (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "barwedge") Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by "is displayed twice consecutively"? I guess some details are missing from your report to make it complete and self-explanatory? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 02:05:23 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 06:05:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42648 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWW8J-0003Ed-Dl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 02:05:23 -0400 Received: from mail-40141.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.141]:49763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWW8H-0003E9-VZ for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 02:05:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:05:06 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692252315; x=1692511515; bh=f8gghmZkr7hJGeu/U1HNIFKtvw9F328F0D9v0m9+6Pc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=lWgsOXybGxnxV0YrGwIvfb+TTMVnrzk50z7pSOjhX/4jK32zuTtWt+SWrepfT0snf XxL3pDAleYWPW4zx2snS3q17MKD3ubzKmDx2WmN9+1prk3vYjxCRXjW30YXT2o/vco tz6Iz76N8fRkRUSTDf5skGLRjHFgg50jbn/EjpVOqOJ528c0DrSX1/i4wgnvQT0PPc VwATEOuqbeLpBUvMEeiCyH1RtTBc4u8t4QtgA7zwlRF/Y3lCJumRjyi7oS6Y/FjfnB cj8KPCcxQ2zDG+Elll14LxA1cXCVeXp14gz6tIakug7pADVhZ7qcEWt33fX+awQ/ew MvuVDMw1qXVBA== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, August 17th, 2023 at 5:49 PM, Eli Zaretskii wro= te: > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 00:47:28 +0000 > > From: Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > > the Swiss army knife of text editors" bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > >=20 > > Have seen that when I include INITIAL-INPUT that happens to be the firs= t entry > > in the collection COLLECJ, the entry "barwedge" is displayed twice cons= ecutively. > >=20 > > But such situation does not happen when selecting a different entry fro= m collection. > >=20 > > (let ( (collecj '("barwedge" "boxdot" "boxminus" "boxplus" > > "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" > >=20 > > (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "barwedge") >=20 >=20 > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by > "is displayed twice consecutively"? I guess some details are missing > from your report to make it complete and self-explanatory? Consider the function defined by (defun bigops (grafm seltr) (interactive (let ( (collecj '("boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast"))= ) (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) The user would see "boxplus", then the following element shows "boxplus" consecutively again. Could you consider the capability that when one uses REQUIRE-MATCH, the function finds the entry for INITIAL-INPUT so that the= =20 next thing that gets shown after that starts from the one following the=20 match in COLLECTION. Otherwise, one is forced to put the INITIAL-INPUT entry at the end of COLLECTION. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 03:20:22 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 07:20:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWXIr-00058g-Rk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 03:20:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50978) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWXIp-00058Q-Ry for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 03:20:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWXIk-0005Ue-Ko; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 03:20:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7RqtqBbBkr+SFhEpBBOsBRtsuAiufi4Mjk7QHctqhi4=; b=WyUVS9OKA+Q+ Lqp8cJdVafWv/GrGvBNMwQo23hSuR2ymuDVZ8ywe4WrKPmVFcOlyTqLzX2J8pWjN0/8GUgIKdvqr0 E+F2EylinPaLguU6c/Xhde2wSr6YR771fvqP9XHHbHDCLUbz9mnw3RoZ2sAdd2DngRNJv10KOmrOd 3hEHOagaFzzqM0nNccpQQ++NzIy/Vndnwfl4/Wakzm9amJXGrWSRAJgtDYlJEiSDlHhQ6mFMOXNqf caNZw+uNvsiKHvj3ezx30vK87t7VRdKzqYaIIP0xQSC/WQyC/qbnSle/qr2nPeKzXiXIf99wf0WEW H9X7KFKxheKRjag2mERFXQ==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:20:21 +0300 Message-Id: <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: (message from Heime on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:05:06 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:05:06 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by > > "is displayed twice consecutively"? I guess some details are missing > > from your report to make it complete and self-explanatory? > > Consider the function defined by > > (defun bigops (grafm seltr) > (interactive > (let ( (collecj '("boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast")) ) > (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) > > The user would see "boxplus", then the following element shows "boxplus" > consecutively again. Could you consider the capability that when one uses > REQUIRE-MATCH, the function finds the entry for INITIAL-INPUT so that the > next thing that gets shown after that starts from the one following the > match in COLLECTION. Otherwise, one is forced to put the INITIAL-INPUT > entry at the end of COLLECTION. Sorry, I still don't understand: what are "the following element" and "the next thing that gets shown"? Shown how? What causes them to be shown? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 06:27:42 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 10:27:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWaE9-0001Zj-LL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:27:41 -0400 Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]:22063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWaE7-0001ZW-72 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:27:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:27:27 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692268053; x=1692527253; bh=bY0z2S4JIQ9N+gl+6fV6Z8EaAmU5GPDNLyze0bXwPA4=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=RHAt05bVDr4RV3QfUn7k6COG+upPwIgAx80iurM7eFC/7IoeikBqx7XjlcI3vof3o Pm3eBZJSNcKkThd3V+r6DqyM0qTEsBQ70wp3c6X6Lxp10JVGopenMP6xHf4YNeFYdq ++lBGTDODZQiKKD7ILj8nyt7wrOkIAr5H5VxaDJrLhZ1iZ4GaSUQMnE8tFYCboYeFZ bIbtDmvPRMnuAJW6EykjKcH2VYdyElgqamQsKtWEvMT/OQQrwasfeejhmYLqeP5ZRw 6x/NADbGBWJ2dbzXZnK4N0Yu5npylYgs+32e+2Pp3dFHeOufwiQtkqko2lnfAbsNst DOsf+Za5ej/SQ== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, August 17th, 2023 at 7:20 PM, Eli Zaretskii wro= te: > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:05:06 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by > > > "is displayed twice consecutively"? I guess some details are missing > > > from your report to make it complete and self-explanatory? > >=20 > > Consider the function defined by > >=20 > > (defun bigops (grafm seltr) > > (interactive > > (let ( (collecj '("boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast"))= ) > > (completing-read "Grapheme: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) > >=20 > > The user would see "boxplus", then the following element shows "boxplus= " > > consecutively again. Could you consider the capability that when one us= es > > REQUIRE-MATCH, the function finds the entry for INITIAL-INPUT so that t= he > > next thing that gets shown after that starts from the one following the > > match in COLLECTION. Otherwise, one is forced to put the INITIAL-INPUT > > entry at the end of COLLECTION. >=20 >=20 > Sorry, I still don't understand: what are "the following element" and > "the next thing that gets shown"? Shown how? What causes them to be > shown? The collection COLLECJ is this ordered sequence=20 "boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" with the call to COMPLETING-READ being (completing-read "PROMPT: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) Where REQUIRE-MATCH is t and INITIAL-INPUT is "boxplus" Now, the user gets the prompt with "boxplus" displayed. The user moves to the next completion candidate, which is also "boxplus", the entry at the beginning of COLLECTION. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 06:45:29 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 10:45:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42847 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWaVM-00023l-QA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:45:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWaVK-00023V-IF; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:45:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWaVF-0000jY-3k; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 06:45:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=KIvP8MkZnR1hUWOvuvifjSbMxot2u6Prrbrr+HJUOJ0=; b=So61ZXrlni5V1glzkxWK UJNP/1qRIxVlnH8fBnbeg5zubmN6AYOy9XdyZRyPM01SL+t8ClvJ4/yG/Oqt/40RimdhrOMfYEwyn I0ChA7YmSoxAN5ZW7wgf59xQeS2by/VIEiXgqBedYgJdJY4Oaaz9rwuopXJZ2uQeRFrfakwZvxRYR n4FpnIg9tMxN1o2Y9dqzdeRcop4lUlC0DME+G5AV1MeDMMQu4JxY3jGhTR2HmniWBxS3jsdHV/NKH POe3kQ6MwQMtBoEHrqp+XTRkyZsOc5yS63a4fc7hYmT5ma90/ag/myAkEPinQe9qKwk8XevHwkNrE NnzyPEP05jJXTA==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:45:27 +0300 Message-Id: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: (message from Heime on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:27:27 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 65348 notabug close 65348 thanks > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:27:27 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > The collection COLLECJ is this ordered sequence > > "boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" > > with the call to COMPLETING-READ being > > (completing-read "PROMPT: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) > > Where REQUIRE-MATCH is t > > and INITIAL-INPUT is "boxplus" > > Now, the user gets the prompt with "boxplus" displayed. > > The user moves to the next completion candidate, which is also "boxplus", > the entry at the beginning of COLLECTION. Which is why the ELisp manual says: The argument INITIAL is mostly deprecated; we recommend using a non-‘nil’ value only in conjunction with specifying a cons cell for HISTORY. *Note Initial Input::. For default input, use DEFAULT instead. In any case, the fact that you see "boxplus" as the first suggestion of the "future history" is because you both added it to COLLECTION and set INITIAL to it. So showing it as the first suggestion is exactly what completing-read should do in this case. This is not a bug, and so I'm closing it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 17 20:35:27 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 00:35:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWnSZ-0004qQ-Fh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:35:27 -0400 Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]:53081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWnSW-0004qD-72 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:35:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:35:09 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692318918; x=1692578118; bh=JZ/GJY9dqQTsvxPiIaMjum+sri+jqcWrk8RQEa4VSrM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=VC4TJIJzuw+6tQS/UVr+oM/SGtP6MVsqKMPU91moChHohxIkRdItOIID/i7nP5Gg9 TTmLTmWG8HTaXXDdevEIU+wbc3zDw4ua1sIpj4GWZkR+jAefeYNKBvM2SmrwoYwsFX J53o7v/RTZgAcz59f/TQtA+On0Jwxq1c5eD4nR2X97BfezIbFPqO/sipXVAxHv7Nvy MXXHPrknJbMuN0i2ufRxszoftNapKzIdwDOKJM/tqm8Pzk+u1biAk6wsndNErJCyO/ +B6WRNDYqBTPxRzYZPFyIPxkmEl2kA0xt2HnkO7N/ma4c/BBQ4/AghiQxr191W4ZYc DQ0Ec9RuRZFwg== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, August 17th, 2023 at 10:45 PM, Eli Zaretskii wr= ote: > tags 65348 notabug > close 65348 > thanks >=20 > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:27:27 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > The collection COLLECJ is this ordered sequence > >=20 > > "boxplus" "boxtimes" "Cap" "centerdot" "circledast" > >=20 > > with the call to COMPLETING-READ being > >=20 > > (completing-read "PROMPT: " collecj nil t "boxplus"))) > >=20 > > Where REQUIRE-MATCH is t > >=20 > > and INITIAL-INPUT is "boxplus" > >=20 > > Now, the user gets the prompt with "boxplus" displayed. > >=20 > > The user moves to the next completion candidate, which is also "boxplus= ", > > the entry at the beginning of COLLECTION. >=20 >=20 > Which is why the ELisp manual says: >=20 > The argument INITIAL is mostly deprecated; we recommend using a > non-=E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99 value only in conjunction with specifying a con= s cell for > HISTORY. *Note Initial Input::. For default input, use DEFAULT > instead. >=20 > In any case, the fact that you see "boxplus" as the first suggestion > of the "future history" is because you both added it to COLLECTION and > set INITIAL to it. So showing it as the first suggestion is exactly > what completing-read should do in this case. >=20 > This is not a bug, and so I'm closing it. So one is not supposed to have the value in COLLECTION if it has been speci= fied in INITIAL ? I find using INITIAL quite useful because the user sees something filled up= . 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Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:47:37 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Heime , Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Thread-Index: AQHZ0WwFhXM2wTbTj0CJYb0dORf1jq/vRs5g Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:47:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|BN0PR10MB5271:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fc677aee-7853-4c79-a7c8-08db9f8d19eb x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 06:49:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> (message from Heime on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:35:09 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:35:09 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > So one is not supposed to have the value in COLLECTION if it has been specified > in INITIAL ? You _can_ have it there. It does work. > I find using INITIAL quite useful because the user sees something filled up. > What is one to do instead ? Why do you need INITIAL? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 01:14:02 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 05:14:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45872 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWro9-00048L-OA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:14:02 -0400 Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.19]:27427) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWro4-000483-8E for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:14:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:13:46 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692335629; x=1692594829; bh=fPNIi0QXY89vQ2Qps9cVWrj3UtiMblmjZyLIjs1lvq0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=CzI2ORR0b6oJ+tDZ1Q6LdDFZZJNG9J4LxgGOaFMBuvNKzVz5WBepmoRiXlRiYln4E C54r2ZOnDMPIx6fTanbxFjlfHoqz+kE/4wYZNu5T5SsUIHbFYi1PpY7x4imGi7vKhk pwAzNq3sSdy3o20vWi1GF0AKousBsqUHEkHkgijtGAT8EuG98hUmlvUa2M4tzmgEgh nwe87m8cK2CTyCB2gI82id+j9zwRxGJN4mqJY9RdppU5RMdVfx/EwgQ5MMlrLzNef6 h8y5/+PrUyHVBHMqyPHx3M9eY2PQNcmmvQZ66JganF52RCBKm2xI9P5073GoxGj5xa k6zE71MHrZiMw== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, August 18th, 2023 at 3:49 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:35:09 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > So one is not supposed to have the value in COLLECTION if it has been s= pecified > > in INITIAL ? >=20 >=20 > You can have it there. It does work. But you are designating it as deprecated, which makes others think that som= ething awful is going to happen to it. The introduction of HIST is only making a = good function quite terrible to use, becoming an over-engineering piece of junk = to avoid. =20 =20 > > I find using INITIAL quite useful because the user sees something fille= d up. > > What is one to do instead ? >=20 >=20 > Why do you need INITIAL? I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with the bloo= dy "M-n". Having the user yank it from the default to the minibuffer is a bother, not= a way to=20 make things easier. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 01:37:01 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 05:37:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45887 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWsAO-0004lj-QN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:37:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWsAJ-0004lT-W3 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:36:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWsAD-0000X5-Nz; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:36:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Uj0Jvv+r8BiDZWmVRE8zFQ0YJ5T1473WR3j0vUqybSM=; b=K51fAy6Igsns REY+Ad91GpadjuNXfB7H5efdwI1CdwD9Tb6OCz9zr2alHAUFTRF5ZKt9AYbWm1RiDlDNlM91WK4tY rDGnkLJ8Hl0X8ivJqdM4b8PZ/ONOJ0HNpC6PdLGmrwlKbQsQPBEsSukr++aXWdj4RDnwHJ7hk477N 7VAKzTqHVY6bmicGSnQh2czVF+rX2EEvz+ZpBsiHYEXwNoPfpW6ivjsYqbL+Gs1zWk3U/xceqvqZw +APsUqORkVFLyQCE77p868a0v9x+l1Zxg3gg5DvpRA2qtlSeKKsVpGA0ELny0yX7mPnWC4yAYO2Aw p6OtoSv7MHUs04SAlz6m6w==; Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:36:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: (message from Heime on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:13:46 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:13:46 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > > You can have it there. It does work. > > But you are designating it as deprecated, which makes others think that something > awful is going to happen to it. The manual tells you what to do instead. > > Why do you need INITIAL? > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with the bloody "M-n". That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show the default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: Type your choice (default foo): From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 01:56:26 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 05:56:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWsTB-0007wr-RP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:56:26 -0400 Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.19]:45403) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWsT7-0007wZ-TL for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 01:56:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:56:04 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692338175; x=1692597375; bh=oI5I4QAnR6zjoKWAFlFPA3Osnk2zDmnu8nixbXz2zKM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=cGllUzWXIFDXHFFQZwaeV6x90A3Q4MjD7F7RKgfg4Qa2AdCZeg7vXqnEl5WZy62EL +3pO1ATBY+V2Zo/pQ03p4XWDZnkAEQQLwRZq7dd2DbPsKzR4+Zdrs8Yi3pWGbBycFM Yhm7WKa1zZcqEeQCBIXID9jG/oxkRpZN9fn9SKPHGXt/egot6slHSrFA1ptcLkNv+l NwNJCorZ+zzyHzPUI+9BS0gWXTNF4AHw9OD91l6dVfQPNrulEnYvBH2CIan0f783+c ru+4nVUCSo8t6PYah29HQXvBZ3o4BKq0SQfXOAX6kPBjJDInnqOMoSYkQoU5ylT1nB +2a+f/EcDRUhg== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, August 18th, 2023 at 5:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:13:46 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > > You can have it there. It does work. > >=20 > > But you are designating it as deprecated, which makes others think that= something > > awful is going to happen to it. >=20 >=20 > The manual tells you what to do instead. This used to be easy for beginners. Now it has became complicated. Had ho= ped=20 the plan for the future was to improve things for beginners, now everything= has started to get modified for use mostly by experts. =20 =20 > > > Why do you need INITIAL? > >=20 > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with the = bloody "M-n". >=20 >=20 > That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show the > default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: >=20 > Type your choice (default foo): I do not want the user to type it, but for it to be displayed automatically= . And if theyy do not want the default, they can step to the next possibility in COLLECTION. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 02:32:47 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 06:32:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWt2M-0000aI-Rj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 02:32:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34014) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWt2K-0000a5-9K for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 02:32:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWt2E-0002WM-O2; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 02:32:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rV7SouDFpJs1Wwu1LpqSy+J9SRRi3Q7cBucUFC2ez8U=; b=NhpSigncnSOz gqIs04nHHEgDgxDpEosn+MS4EPdJKUefDbUMRhtUnIkhNyGA+R8zmYAIyPw6jBmlbyolaRZ6kD4Jc zEkl8EjwRwSaTfFgKUjU4cnKjTHGF46MYI0o+m1nUQ8PJPB/jjwz1ReG3zX0F3mhqq3lxxVMiWVmn b15YurZB5FE+sjII21Xf0vlPGKhl46Sy93K4SYHYdafiw1nNtwpD10VAvUD5IXI6UvhbxF1RufR5W dcNTYpCrD+580d9pTJAACKeF/jdE1L03UjIt02eX66Dl2+Nh2Rl7h+euj4kPHcBplqVBG8Z1le/pg KgPYcVTNBTdergjAcH2+sA==; Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:32:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: (message from Heime on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:56:04 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:56:04 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > > The manual tells you what to do instead. > > This used to be easy for beginners. Now it has became complicated. Using completing-read was never easy. > Had hoped the plan for the future was to improve things for > beginners, now everything has started to get modified for use mostly > by experts. The Emacs development enhances the existing functionality, and that inevitably makes some situations more complex to handle. That is the price for added functionality, and no one has yet found a way of making software more flexible and powerful without also making it more complex. > > > > Why do you need INITIAL? > > > > > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with the bloody "M-n". > > > > > > That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show the > > default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: > > > > Type your choice (default foo): > > I do not want the user to type it, but for it to be displayed automatically. > And if theyy do not want the default, they can step to the next possibility > in COLLECTION. Then you will have to override the value of minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 04:40:29 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 08:40:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46097 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWv1x-000469-ER for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:40:29 -0400 Received: from mail-4324.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.24]:50873) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWv1r-00045o-1n for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:40:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:40:12 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1692348015; x=1692607215; bh=Vc8ofjsAR93FVYdem7p2/cTlxtXNhgZ/I03xmKLPgrU=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=goGmR4CgeZlWy0JbOhJQj48tKfXoGJzGaLNQ6VJuKXorFxaBj3WyDSpo8ztp8nPIt j9G32fyY+muW1V609+/h4e39Vbav0Tf/e05nfOCTWiaT1Wti5ejekKdGPlBLE5VsvQ c3DtfzF15RsdKtFG9PYPnTFP0IoPXj4ZyiojtuH7Um9Urr9Z0m04asRz2rdpXC2Yt+ M+1z42Ji68Nm4WBLe1K1RQRyAWucbwoBMiz8ZAcJ390xOgmWJPyuIUJNZNAe5NlXHA +xzCRmBcBjz55PLSpVLd0BG/TtdJGeLYDR2EIIyq0vd11uJjgLSvGHzY9Eqv5kKGrX UAog9UcEj3Ohg== To: Eli Zaretskii From: uzibalqa Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> In-Reply-To: <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 52887082:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Heime , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, August 18th, 2023 at 6:32 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 05:56:04 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > > The manual tells you what to do instead. > >=20 > > This used to be easy for beginners. Now it has became complicated. >=20 >=20 > Using completing-read was never easy. >=20 > > Had hoped the plan for the future was to improve things for > > beginners, now everything has started to get modified for use mostly > > by experts. >=20 >=20 > The Emacs development enhances the existing functionality, and that > inevitably makes some situations more complex to handle. That is the > price for added functionality, and no one has yet found a way of > making software more flexible and powerful without also making it more > complex. >=20 > > > > > Why do you need INITIAL? > > > >=20 > > > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with = the bloody "M-n". > > >=20 > > > That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show the > > > default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: > > >=20 > > > Type your choice (default foo): > >=20 > > I do not want the user to type it, but for it to be displayed automatic= ally. > > And if theyy do not want the default, they can step to the next possibi= lity > > in COLLECTION. >=20 >=20 > Then you will have to override the value of > minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. You see how things have become even more complicated now. How about=20 providing the feature that there was ? =20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 08:15:03 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 12:15:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWyNa-0004Gu-Kn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:15:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWyNY-0004G2-PZ for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:15:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWyNR-0003Ji-1Z; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:14:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cNCAtkiu+DWG/cda6dKA6VqZy1qzwaCDbO9EVXJl8vY=; b=HProra5oPUDE wKqsItpV08rsYKmFIM0VLcMNdcIyJn9qwZjtGiAdsCENJsTkNkLG2yTOrfJk5kJdJYgIal2etZmwh J2d+Oqf4XZWLAicpESI27g46AiRq/JTGE9GLGrLpaSybE8WLoCysFzUtS3K6Y9fHxmwfikPyBzmLi AgHJoS186s8RIwWqny9PRep31WQ7IXIQtKVD/jL9BrPEiFUpoD8XnIgCYvfu3ziGuJLYaXXPolJ4/ +TR+YPXacGJ0huUjwDqH6y8uFImbyb0Ghcf8BmtVGq7ehO2yONuRmEugC3GA9XVP6vv0hmmoiRU7i a32i/sC7sTqI1uo3jpta7w==; Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:14:57 +0300 Message-Id: <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: uzibalqa In-Reply-To: <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> (message from uzibalqa on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:40:12 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:40:12 +0000 > From: uzibalqa > Cc: Heime , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > > The Emacs development enhances the existing functionality, and that > > inevitably makes some situations more complex to handle. That is the > > price for added functionality, and no one has yet found a way of > > making software more flexible and powerful without also making it more > > complex. > > > > > > > > Why do you need INITIAL? > > > > > > > > > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it with the bloody "M-n". > > > > > > > > That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show the > > > > default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: > > > > > > > > Type your choice (default foo): > > > > > > I do not want the user to type it, but for it to be displayed automatically. > > > And if theyy do not want the default, they can step to the next possibility > > > in COLLECTION. > > > > > > Then you will have to override the value of > > minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. > > You see how things have become even more complicated now. How about > providing the feature that there was ? I explained above why this happens, so there's no need to reiterate. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 08:28:06 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 12:28:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46309 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWyaD-0004aF-VJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:28:06 -0400 Received: from mail-4318.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.18]:45243) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWyaB-0004Zc-47 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:28:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:27:47 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692361676; x=1692620876; bh=fETKhaVCSJOcPwmxdCePtOYA6vt4AGwcECHh+Ookwns=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=pOhPs6lT/nCEH8s2RW9Ezln43XycLHxNHQmB8Ip4Ny/Z2ZkLeKV74RXizCjVv2s3l n9eeixCPHURCanqbGXCrnzZN9qDkmUSOTKLsfrwgTAgaH4KzSpCc9pTYQjQwOMLaNE oY+FODtx+OwM2E0B6AJDFQuYih7aa10JLgmQ/ndDk1T6Pb0duFFE6CDEPF4L12TgMT DxdjlM67dEx4ZsoSwF0Hv2+xZAcl/qjS3+qFaWKN2pm+Sdes5EuBtLiHJpqGit8+eK igR/92MZHaSY2QdAhgdZKAJWZxRJ6ukSZQCT6l7aivNWAeKdgRb66oIjvmlHVCRr61 khuZ9gx+J1AkA== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: uzibalqa , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 12:14 AM, Eli Zaretskii wr= ote: > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:40:12 +0000 > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me > > Cc: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > > The Emacs development enhances the existing functionality, and that > > > inevitably makes some situations more complex to handle. That is the > > > price for added functionality, and no one has yet found a way of > > > making software more flexible and powerful without also making it mor= e > > > complex. > > >=20 > > > > > > > Why do you need INITIAL? > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > I want the user to see a default without having him to get it w= ith the bloody "M-n". > > > > >=20 > > > > > That's not how you show the default to the user. The way to show = the > > > > > default to the user is to include it in the prompt, like so: > > > > >=20 > > > > > Type your choice (default foo): > > > >=20 > > > > I do not want the user to type it, but for it to be displayed autom= atically. > > > > And if theyy do not want the default, they can step to the next pos= sibility > > > > in COLLECTION. > > >=20 > > > Then you will have to override the value of > > > minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. > >=20 > > You see how things have become even more complicated now. How about > > providing the feature that there was ? >=20 > I explained above why this happens, so there's no need to reiterate. Why have users make new functions to override the value of=20 'minibuffer-default-add-function' when you can have the sensible feature that many would like to use available ! =20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 08:30:16 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 12:30:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWycJ-0004ey-LN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:30:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWycH-0004eV-00 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:30:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWycB-0007DH-1V; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:30:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=a1P5L36TtjzwcEmdkVfHVryLr1V2qj1pW/k/mzJEBlk=; b=Blw5HZZ4rZNa 627ELIFgCcVZvwgIHfQU5em0w/NBRs6ISWxCXgPHxQqBBl+R9n7mTaVBKAtjt6xZZzGqKdNaIE+Rr WYGMZCd8mKbZjzXFTJ0/MjERP73iwN+yDJyyR2DjbbgyKBJ5ft4ugYiLHvkqHjnN3PIxgfSD0tTZi F+/l3ygIJkDk1GdcFVK2iwkkUedDcWg4avq8THhhOqRTBS0Pk7DPcW9jMd3zMmdXL/Ka8iDIAp8ZT 5ErMiGksUHbLt4S7lyFOHRZKv9cI8OaX+Fi+EMwRznbAAkIgHlsWpi+dgTf1RWLrK2pMrq3mto0po jiDYRoQ7r45f9KgPnf613g==; Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:30:09 +0300 Message-Id: <831qg04jou.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> (message from Heime on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:27:47 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:27:47 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: uzibalqa , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > Then you will have to override the value of > > > > minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. > > > > > > You see how things have become even more complicated now. How about > > > providing the feature that there was ? > > > > I explained above why this happens, so there's no need to reiterate. > > Why have users make new functions to override the value of > 'minibuffer-default-add-function' when you can have the sensible feature > that many would like to use available ! Because it is needed to support the new enhancements. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 08:55:47 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 12:55:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46326 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz11-0005KG-Do for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:55:47 -0400 Received: from mail-4027.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.27]:60763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWz0z-0005K2-RP for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:55:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:55:30 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692363338; x=1692622538; bh=SrKjCeBrWs2b3hZbM2L6NFw128sb2/rCtoTV9NqJrJc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=KdwTwoxDTD9waiCVfYjpGiVAA/ZkHa+LrqiiuXtCDlBHTHCeU4mfSTu3GTJ9yvzFs phNQPYdG/YypuzV5+3YLcu96EeuRgl5mtqqieFdycs5ZEBlRd664vxToUmaVUdI8iw HgGjeO1IX6pCjTFLA2v8uDiIvf0lb5FRPGVBAsdDluN4Y+/Fhw+x31jnk96YJKW4P1 +2PfhFwe+3SIknhlE8u3PgLKsj7WraL2PAGcRGwJUpsAbns4W25YtngfvO4+TNVGj5 gSZMVbmybgmmru0metCv/80Hk+OlERzOqqCbPLl/nI7q1vDmXJ07GayA4B20CzICxW Fohkhzf28IQOw== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <_d_wHhNe-wkaV3zbkGfDS_LY67upriJDz2ogSz6tKyUE2rosXX1nEeutCKGceFRIMTY62O12r9o97FhdzondXuZsUXfCwhbsOiDDn5m8v04=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <831qg04jou.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> <831qg04jou.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 12:30 AM, Eli Zaretskii wr= ote: > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:27:47 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > > > > Then you will have to override the value of > > > > > minibuffer-default-add-function with a function of your own. > > > >=20 > > > > You see how things have become even more complicated now. How about > > > > providing the feature that there was ? > > >=20 > > > I explained above why this happens, so there's no need to reiterate. > >=20 > > Why have users make new functions to override the value of > > 'minibuffer-default-add-function' when you can have the sensible featur= e > > that many would like to use available ! >=20 >=20 > Because it is needed to support the new enhancements. How would one write this function you mention ? Or, can such function also be included part of the new enhancements ?=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 09:27:21 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 13:27:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWzVY-00068j-Tu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:27:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWzVX-00068U-9H for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:27:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWzVR-0000lv-7p; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:27:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=OuxMCUyWUK2w+VynN0QAY4mgPSP/c0WP+ZUBzVCLHZ8=; b=Um1+HWWVQwas +nLtVB62ctZ+YrG6cyCRAsgWEWJyN8UIaZNR+DhKNNrGsxIM04qHLrJ5T7Iz6BQTkuET2641aTyKV OZOEig1yY27HfOwoSph+QCj25a7NbYKEEQWXxoo5lrcB3YrPuB8RzGHnnr9fKogFrkwmnU31BVyhr 93MVJyPZPIHO2K11PX9IlkH2V+mgogUJIbgU4WZPTeNVRgQTc3OAqtNvc07TXuCScIpM1hlfrRWG/ DSl9yWo+5EhRWzMPEHDHOucMjQ/UHqjQRQUIHp7UJqxjwBc1W+ObqSthTHY71KdTM6g6wI8f2lQHo NJNHnWVw6OH9b41F/KVd+w==; Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 16:27:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83zg2o32hd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: <_d_wHhNe-wkaV3zbkGfDS_LY67upriJDz2ogSz6tKyUE2rosXX1nEeutCKGceFRIMTY62O12r9o97FhdzondXuZsUXfCwhbsOiDDn5m8v04=@protonmail.com> (message from Heime on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:55:30 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <83wmxs52ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> <831qg04jou.fsf@gnu.org> <_d_wHhNe-wkaV3zbkGfDS_LY67upriJDz2ogSz6tKyUE2rosXX1nEeutCKGceFRIMTY62O12r9o97FhdzondXuZsUXfCwhbsOiDDn5m8v04=@protonmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:55:30 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > How would one write this function you mention ? Or, can such function > also be included part of the new enhancements ? These questions belongs to help-gnu-emacs, not to the bug tracker. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 09:36:36 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 13:36:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46403 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWzeW-0000XV-7l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:36:36 -0400 Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]:14743) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWzeT-0000XG-J8 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:36:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:36:06 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692365786; x=1692624986; bh=Bk+erKwldxtbJHvfVOQ9o/E74MAzIUnvitflWSxsflo=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=g24Ts8SbGhV7E7GSgolzNWDP4gvwUZqEADgD+ApDAsIRbLD4AmD1qqGf1RY4n2uQt A71+45wa22BtDgy9VGYQVQOPZA+gYGepbN2nyLLb8nkEhfG92sfm/39rC0UCVsAURj fsMpcKhocIburodCH6kF+lzAY4/8a/9biw6VxljgzjIga0maV8D8dyBFk2fQZiYb8/ zdlJuBSKlPx0KRieIvP+0xhATCY2uCrhWMPXvIRoDWtvu9ofTSttUm4xR+WjvwgZH+ Kqfu67rq3MKcBy9jjMlzltxyGfv1fcCBUtnEZLjbWrtQ2mh0YP4GraGpzam7yR74gQ fBVUsGBzkf8Nw== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <_AzRxCcOSW7Jp6nMv9BjJLqt34aORUULBjWn6N-6-rVigvXv5eEZM23G0jC7HksWOptvd-slI6mfb5ee598pgs4t3r6z0UuuwzCUexzPSMY=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <83zg2o32hd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83il9c508h.fsf@gnu.org> <_vpSn7Hx9ux7MOLfpzR0NuLWbQdTWvf9GfHYDRdwIr7HL-e78lw6B5jfRbFkijbTbTNDxxgv0vDMtjxC7ZhPiHb0B8A0h3mrgX0Q7fH_aI4=@proton.me> <835y5c4ke6.fsf@gnu.org> <7B478V6-to8hhrJHvIXlKBqe2Og2xtH8fBQbq6zSGIjFPaw6L__XrHOvodM9J8XU98hQq9j6Z5f9OiaT6mMc7fWFto5XaPmEKmDOViY3JnE=@protonmail.com> <831qg04jou.fsf@gnu.org> <_d_wHhNe-wkaV3zbkGfDS_LY67upriJDz2ogSz6tKyUE2rosXX1nEeutCKGceFRIMTY62O12r9o97FhdzondXuZsUXfCwhbsOiDDn5m8v04=@protonmail.com> <83zg2o32hd.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 1:27 AM, Eli Zaretskii wro= te: > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:55:30 +0000 > > From: Heime heimeborgia@protonmail.com > > Cc: uzibalqa@proton.me, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > >=20 > > How would one write this function you mention ? Or, can such function > > also be included part of the new enhancements ? >=20 >=20 > These questions belongs to help-gnu-emacs, not to the bug tracker. The history part should have been made as an enhancement rather than a requirement. 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h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=eCukitvpr7GjzsYoXWehI935Hy3n4+f0TnmuEffaAzo/4JsJve7ditRPZ2GtFFFGS wBoHhE8WpYC9pZykrijI9RgBJhtAaBCvfE3Kq/8deBtoQBu5P7+lIAuTIwXEi1seAv NM+uC/TqfWp3wVar4GUcIwrXadj88q8tWN7yJOXTFzJo8jyHV2JydzCYF5lZAfHOlZ ziQKkyc0W93FJu2b0c6EpZRJ2ct6NTGww63rqo2dmQqEnzWh+X9sMLwhQ0GyHF1plY G1neWydq5u2s+p1vFCFzTROdVAUvPxtPUjoRET6gfq+bqLW57rRZPM62/58mnQd+PS 7Q01dN7dfZGMg== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <83edk26wwu.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpu6sp6.fsf@gnu.org> <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 3:16 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > You can have it there. It does work. > >=20 > > But you are designating it as deprecated, which makes > > others think that something awful is going to happen to it. >=20 >=20 > Agreed. Better to not deprecate it and just explain > the pros and the cons. However, Emacs deprecated it > long ago... >=20 > Deprecation shouldn't be used for this kind of > stylistic choice. For that, when those deciding > agree on what's the best style, and they agree that > it's helpful to pass along their suggestion in the > interest of consistency (for example), then it can > be advertised as a stylistic convention. >=20 > IMHO, there was never any call for this to be > branded as "deprecated". I said so at the time, > but other voices prevailed. History. > ___ >=20 >=20 > [FWIW, Icicles considers it not deprecated. The doc > string of `completing-read' in Icicle mode has this: INITIAL-INPUT is con= sidered deprecated by vanilla Emacs, but not by Icicles. If INITIAL-INPUT i= s nil and DEF is non-nil, the user can use` next-history-element' to yank D= EF into the > minibuffer. >=20 > In addition, with Icicles users can choose the > behavior they prefer wrt inserting the DEFAULT > value, showing it in the prompt, and selecting it > if inserted. >=20 > See https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Customization_and_General_T= ips#icicle-default-value. >=20 > ] >=20 > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > function quite terrible to use, becoming an > > over-engineering piece of junk to avoid. >=20 > Useless to claim, without saying why you think so. > And you're quite wrong here, FWIW. HIST is your > friend. When using my own function that selects from a collection, I am never=20 interested in the history. Just want it to cycle through the entries, that's all. And the less things I got to type, the better. =20 > [But minibuffer history too can be improved for users: > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_History_Enhancements. > ] >=20 > > > > I find using INITIAL quite useful because the > > > > user sees something filled up. >=20 >=20 > Yes. More importantly, it's there for you to edit. >=20 > As with everything else, inserting it isn't always > a plus or always a minus, and different users can > find it a plus or minus in the same context. >=20 > Callers of `completing-read' can decide whether it > makes sense (they think) to insert. And users > should be able to override the caller's choice. It seems that now I have to know all about the HIST things, the DEF, the over-riding of same value to call some function=20 that I have to write to get the behaviour I was using, etc.=20 =20 > > Having the user yank it from the default to the > > minibuffer is a bother >=20 >=20 > Having it inserted automatically can also be a > bother. Different contexts (different calls to > `completing-read') can call for different behavior, > and different users can, and do, have different > ideas about what behavior is more bothersome. Right. But if someone wants it displayed immediately, have to use M-n becomes a bother. =20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 13:34:02 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 17:34:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48639 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX3MI-00021j-8I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:34:02 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:2238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX3MF-00021F-18 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:34:01 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37IEl9I3002320; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 17:33:57 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : 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d2FzIHVzaW5nLCBldGMuDQoNCllvdSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHRvIGtub3cgYW55dGhpbmcuICBBbmQg eWVzLCB0aGVyZQ0KYXJlIGEgbXVsdGl0dWRlIG9mIHRoaW5ncyB5b3UgY2FuIGxlYXJuLCB0byBt YWtlDQp5b3VyIEVtYWNzIGxpZmUgZWFzaWVyLCBtb3JlIGVmZmljaWVudCwgbW9yZQ0KZW5qb3lh YmxlLCBtb3JlIGVubGlnaHRlbmluZy4NCg0KU29tZSBwZW9wbGUgdXNlIEVtYWNzIGZvciBhIGxv bmcgdGltZSB3aXRob3V0DQpib3RoZXJpbmcgdG8gbGVhcm4gb3RoZXIgd2F5cyBvZiBkb2luZyB0 aGluZ3MNCnRoYW4gd2hhdCB0aGV5IGxlYXJuZWQgdGhlIGZpcnN0IHdlZWsuICBTb21lIHVzZQ0K bWVudXMgYW5kIG1vdXNlIGFsb25lLCBwcmV0dHkgbXVjaC4gIE90aGVycyBnZXQNCmFsb25nIGJl dHRlciBhcyB0aW1lIGdvZXMgb24sIHBpY2tpbmcgdXAgdmFyaW91cw0Kd2F5cyB0byBkbyB0aGlu Z3MgZWFzaWVyIG9yIHF1aWNrZXIuICBPZnRlbiB0aGF0DQppbmNsdWRlcyB3cml0aW5nIHNvbWUg Y29kZSBvciBwaWNraW5nIHVwIHNvbWUNCmNvZGUgKGUuZy4gcGFja2FnZXMpIHdyaXR0ZW4gYnkg b3RoZXJzLiAgWU1NVi4NCg== From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 15:13:14 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 19:13:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48822 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX4uI-0004fk-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:13:14 -0400 Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.132]:60107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX4uG-0004fQ-Od for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:13:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:12:49 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692385985; x=1692645185; bh=svzQEZRBwTOOQOgikrdWRigWwAS3g/YVq4JlZvd0BY4=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=rf7HyAAl4jLPQv08/yGpYJvIvSYY0fcmXtdFJ5bztpNs+I9MgNk21GWu6fwGKmIvN nsYtaBBdCUAW6dAqs/atcKMLBNV3/P+SQtTi0vZ/4CsgmMmcV2/AmQNXqNZABarzhW Az37/8fRAcPCutXEHO3QRBqyZyLD/OxBwIpbnsSvVS0NP5dm12y5lgFoMl2f9O9CHz XhZ95PcILQk7senaLZW4Xq3QjD5huJX9FHCvCnvdYU2HGCWk4t26AK6YwA8mRUwYTp PlVhkgeUJNmOWxUm2mInvSn9rBGgAyuGCG4sgmEf++/pSaR0wM6wRsnA9bFaLumFbi LlopvHvM6jGvA== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 5:33 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > > > function quite terrible to use, becoming an > > > > over-engineering piece of junk to avoid. > > >=20 > > > Useless to claim, without saying why you think so. > > > And you're quite wrong here, FWIW. HIST is your > > > friend. > >=20 > > When using my own function that selects from a collection, I am never > > interested in the history. Just want it to cycle through the entries, > > that's all. And the less things I got to type, the better. >=20 >=20 > Everyone is different. >=20 > But know that cycling is not always an efficient > way to get to something. It can be fine if the > thing you want to get to is close by. It can be > awful if it's far. >=20 > This is why we have keys such as `M-r' and` M-s' > that find things in the history. >=20 > It can also help to have completion against the > history. (If you'd read the page I pointed to > about Icicles history enhancements you'd have > seen more than one possibility for that.) >=20 > Cycling can be helpful for accessing COLLECTION > matches or for accessing history elements. But > cycling is an inherently dumb, inefficient way > to find a needle in a haystack. A magnet works > better than checking each bit of hay in turn. I use completing-read so I do not have to remember=20 collection matches.=20 =20 > Being able to sort completion candidates is one > way to tame dumb cycling. Being able to filter > them is another. It's really important to have > ways to tame a large set of choices, whether > they are completion candidates, input-history > candidates, or anything else. >=20 > > > Callers of `completing-read' can decide whether it > > > makes sense (they think) to insert. And users > > > should be able to override the caller's choice. > >=20 > > It seems that now I have to know all about the HIST things, > > the DEF, the over-riding of same value to call some function > > that I have to write to get the behaviour I was using, etc. >=20 >=20 > You don't have to know anything. And yes, there > are a multitude of things you can learn, to make > your Emacs life easier, more efficient, more > enjoyable, more enlightening. >=20 > Some people use Emacs for a long time without > bothering to learn other ways of doing things > than what they learned the first week. Some use > menus and mouse alone, pretty much. Others get > along better as time goes on, picking up various > ways to do things easier or quicker. Often that > includes writing some code or picking up some > code (e.g. packages) written by others. YMMV. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 15:45:30 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2023 19:45:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX5PW-0005WH-1J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:45:30 -0400 Received: from mail-4318.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.18]:27545) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qX5PT-0005Vp-M1 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 15:45:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:45:10 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692387920; x=1692647120; bh=LztaD6m6N+lGu9TenI1oHR0uT+3YBDOxxNiFgjIuLcs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=Yc3ZVQHiry9imEoaztrPF3CA+W4p4Br0IInsHYVjLWmlXQKkbrmBYB52h87M3o4SO Ez+Ds9z3IrNlXxbYoP0cIOVj458evBqSn2Q62Yuprh/exwpS6CBxkViIcQlhAfXYds 9LZZHWNr+rHW3pjqPFfuf0NxdS5mW0k6M7CKGutVRtR0ZE4zJS560KosUAB8NQGz4x e0ve0FCkbKhseigEFeOGG2zhbMKTTNnGgo66uGGKscczHZBQtXVPfL9YfJ5ser2/vF TJk4rIYpOwftHch76rvYJ48TCQycO0EdOkLu9G9zUAE6lOA4GtA93/dmDwqfSTutxd 4v0/sXU4it7sQ== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <2VHlRj-PHCM7ic4tUDOKedNqWt0C9Tu__d2PLGwLt8AZKCRFocxSb-sbTSbwz3aQv3bNv-cPNYxcZsc27bhGpB3jW9eKGDd3v0tvg8v_LJU=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 5:33 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > > > function quite terrible to use, becoming an > > > > over-engineering piece of junk to avoid. > > >=20 > > > Useless to claim, without saying why you think so. > > > And you're quite wrong here, FWIW. HIST is your > > > friend. > >=20 > > When using my own function that selects from a collection, I am never > > interested in the history. Just want it to cycle through the entries, > > that's all. And the less things I got to type, the better. >=20 > Everyone is different. Fine. But I cannot see the reason to forced mo to override the value of=20 'minibuffer-default-add-function' with a function of my own. Would that not change the way that completing-read works for all my emacs= =20 sessions ? How about having a different function with functionality that supports the old functionality. There will be the simpler version, and a more complicated one should people need it. I cannot see how adding the new functionality means scrapping the legitimate way that I was using it. =20 > But know that cycling is not always an efficient > way to get to something. It can be fine if the > thing you want to get to is close by. It can be > awful if it's far. >=20 > This is why we have keys such as `M-r' and` M-s' > that find things in the history. >=20 > It can also help to have completion against the > history. (If you'd read the page I pointed to > about Icicles history enhancements you'd have > seen more than one possibility for that.) >=20 > Cycling can be helpful for accessing COLLECTION > matches or for accessing history elements. But > cycling is an inherently dumb, inefficient way > to find a needle in a haystack. A magnet works > better than checking each bit of hay in turn. >=20 > Being able to sort completion candidates is one > way to tame dumb cycling. Being able to filter > them is another. It's really important to have > ways to tame a large set of choices, whether > they are completion candidates, input-history > candidates, or anything else. >=20 > > > Callers of `completing-read' can decide whether it > > > makes sense (they think) to insert. And users > > > should be able to override the caller's choice. > >=20 > > It seems that now I have to know all about the HIST things, > > the DEF, the over-riding of same value to call some function > > that I have to write to get the behaviour I was using, etc. >=20 >=20 > You don't have to know anything. And yes, there > are a multitude of things you can learn, to make > your Emacs life easier, more efficient, more > enjoyable, more enlightening. >=20 > Some people use Emacs for a long time without > bothering to learn other ways of doing things > than what they learned the first week. Some use > menus and mouse alone, pretty much. Others get > along better as time goes on, picking up various > ways to do things easier or quicker. Often that > includes writing some code or picking up some > code (e.g. packages) written by others. YMMV. 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ZmZlci1kZWZhdWx0LWFkZC1mdW5jdGlvbicgd2l0aCBhIGZ1bmN0aW9uIG9mIG15IG93bi4NCg0K SSBoYXZlIG5vdGhpbmcgdG8gc2F5IGFib3V0IHRoYXQgdmFyaWFibGUsDQpleGNlcHQgdG8gcmVw ZWF0IHdoYXQgSSBhbHJlYWR5IHNhaWQgYWJvdXQNCnRoZSBFbWFjcyBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gYWRkIENP TExFQ1RJT04gdG8gdGhlDQpmdXR1cmUgaGlzdG9yeTogSXQncyBhIG1pc2d1aWRlZCBtaXNmZWF0 dXJlLg0KDQpOZXZlciBzaG91bGRhIGhhcHBlbmVkLiAgSXNuJ3QgaGVscGZ1bC4NCkp1c3Qgb25l IG9waW5pb24uDQo= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 21:55:44 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2023 01:55:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49097 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXBBn-0001fd-QB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:55:44 -0400 Received: from mail-40135.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.135]:50049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXBBl-0001fK-7O for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:55:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:55:14 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692410133; x=1692669333; bh=cRTYC2GL7ZvH0vMwoG0cWGf3ITvD1yUpiKipucMcaBs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=JbTwU6x8z+SC2tKneIAUMv4fKY6J/oq6shVCwOc9WdIhR7jVE3MD46ixj8kXE64Is UOkhqTpPdaVagkAN7sBOauIvosY7v5hewKdlFVlvDWerZQhZixEIPnPB0fNSpGxvi7 obcJ0wCbtU4HrHf8htzgt8dLzkiNw2jDKErDUrQal3OqUzn0wT+v3No5aVBPVYGcMc /RDLo3bqOuHCxanNPTV8T3wQnODBlYWKx1+sqa2d3mf+FPujlI70zh/uxHw8c33M2B dMgWypaxyr6B7TZOBPlkLcSipWRG0Hta7qd111m6OZq9uf0f93ociCgvyKKo0HFRv/ a/CtJ2uI3YEVw== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 9:03 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > Cycling can be helpful for accessing COLLECTION > > > matches or for accessing history elements. But > > > cycling is an inherently dumb, inefficient way > > > to find a needle in a haystack. A magnet works > > > better than checking each bit of hay in turn. > >=20 > > I use completing-read so I do not have to remember > > collection matches. >=20 >=20 > "Remember collection matches?" > No idea what you're on about, there. >=20 > The point is that cycling among `completing-read' completion candidates, = just like cycling among` completing-read' history elements, is a slow, > single-step, brute-force way to access choices. > If there are many candidates then it becomes a > ridiculous way to get what you want. In that case > you're far better off filtering the candidates. >=20 > When you use `completing-read', you do sometimes > type some text in the minibuffer, to filter the > choices, don't you? Why do you do that, instead > of just cycling blindly among ALL the candidates > in the domain (COLLECTION)? Because it's stupid > & slow to cycle when there are zillions of choices. >=20 > M-x TAB ... > > You DON'T do that to enter a command, do you? I > truly hope you type some text before hitting TAB. I do actually and without hitting TAB. Did not know about that trick. =20 > The same thing applies to accessing a choice among > any set of candidates, whether it's completions, > history elements, query-replace matches,... >=20 > Filtering is far more efficient than cycling > when the set of candidates is large. Emacs makes > a point of giving users ways to filter instead of > just checking each blade of straw to see if it > might be a needle. >=20 > Filter first, well, and often, and it will boost > the value of cycling. Same for sorting: sort > well and you needn't cycle much. Cycling on its > own is like reading a novel one letter at a time. I like to categorise rather than sort. =20 > Cycling is the last thing to do, after you've > narrowed the selection down to a few choices and > if it's more trouble than it's worth to narrow it > down to a single choice by filtering further. >=20 > If you can present the choices in a good order > (sorting) then it might not matter how many there > are, because you have, in effect, narrowed the > choices down to those at the start of the list. >=20 > Being able to sort completion candidates on the > fly is powerful, as is being able to filter them > on the fly - and to filter again and again, with > different criteria/patterns. >=20 > Vanilla Emacs doesn't offer filtering again and > again; and it doesn't offer sorting on the fly. > It should offer both. It should as you say. =20 > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Nutshell_View#ProgressiveComple= tion >=20 > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Sorting_Candidates >=20 > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Sorting_Candidates#screenshots From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 18 22:34:31 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2023 02:34:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49130 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXBnK-0002xt-QC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:34:31 -0400 Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.130]:28445) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXBnH-0002xa-SI for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 22:34:28 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:34:08 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692412460; x=1692671660; bh=dXnkvAB4B0Vj6dKiD9t8sLnDJ7AkYskQwfaQsXKrbno=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=Qn/o+MHMbNCQIux/Ra42gLzKEF4l2tfFrArvymPYC9EQQtBjB7C4YzpDLseGNJmeG kpBblI7CqHfRZk26jQ7w08fH+zuB1cxbr9LdC+C2jyQgUJJkRntV/LjoX7d58n6+UT BNwPv4befdo/OUvI6jweJCCF5tRxV+HHpfyRVdizYXCTm7s0dvfZYFfY8NAed2bW24 wY29GdNYJqXgz3ySzxwnAtgpgFN4VLbz+HEtLLdVfdltipaOdnBJNNK8TSk9h6dw5/ X9zFbYxAi5Yiv0A7iKBNQRaatfJaHPRG+U6VuN2sTDZuwOY+pXyeTFPeBNStMMiZOA DI+B78c0e74SA== To: Heime From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <83msyq54mw.fsf@gnu.org> <6lEyA2hwLwT0gnrhQsH91Us8wQDf0Cj8-hfYtge1iLDBFEsG5Hj_i80te8w4f52fgOS-g9Z908HRkYHlE05wBV9ccB5h1bFjV755l9nvYh0=@protonmail.com> <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 7:12 AM, Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: > ------- Original Message ------- > On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 5:33 AM, Drew Adams > > > > > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > > > > function quite terrible to use, becomi [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [185.70.40.130 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (heimeborgia[at]protonmail.com) 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 1.3 TO_EQ_FM_DIRECT_MX To == From and direct-to-MX X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 7:12 AM, Heime via "Bug reports for GNU E= macs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: > ------- Original Message ------- > On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 5:33 AM, Drew Adams drew.adams@oracle.c= om wrote: >=20 > > > > > The introduction of HIST is only making a good > > > > > function quite terrible to use, becoming an > > > > > over-engineering piece of junk to avoid. > > > >=20 > > > > Useless to claim, without saying why you think so. > > > > And you're quite wrong here, FWIW. HIST is your > > > > friend. > > >=20 > > > When using my own function that selects from a collection, I am never > > > interested in the history. Just want it to cycle through the entries, > > > that's all. And the less things I got to type, the better. > >=20 > > Everyone is different. > >=20 > > But know that cycling is not always an efficient > > way to get to something. It can be fine if the > > thing you want to get to is close by. It can be > > awful if it's far. > >=20 > > This is why we have keys such as `M-r' and` M-s' > > that find things in the history. > >=20 > > It can also help to have completion against the > > history. (If you'd read the page I pointed to > > about Icicles history enhancements you'd have > > seen more than one possibility for that.) > >=20 > > Cycling can be helpful for accessing COLLECTION > > matches or for accessing history elements. But > > cycling is an inherently dumb, inefficient way > > to find a needle in a haystack. A magnet works > > better than checking each bit of hay in turn. Would it not be better to COLLECTION and HISTORY separate ?=20 =20 > I use completing-read so I do not have to remember > collection matches. >=20 > > Being able to sort completion candidates is one > > way to tame dumb cycling. Being able to filter > > them is another. It's really important to have > > ways to tame a large set of choices, whether > > they are completion candidates, input-history > > candidates, or anything else. I can put a question so I can see how I can use what you are suggesting. See if it works for me.=20 =20 > > > > Callers of `completing-read' can decide whether it > > > > makes sense (they think) to insert. And users > > > > should be able to override the caller's choice. > > >=20 > > > It seems that now I have to know all about the HIST things, > > > the DEF, the over-riding of same value to call some function > > > that I have to write to get the behaviour I was using, etc. > >=20 > > You don't have to know anything. And yes, there > > are a multitude of things you can learn, to make > > your Emacs life easier, more efficient, more > > enjoyable, more enlightening. > >=20 > > Some people use Emacs for a long time without > > bothering to learn other ways of doing things > > than what they learned the first week. Some use > > menus and mouse alone, pretty much. Others get > > along better as time goes on, picking up various > > ways to do things easier or quicker. Often that > > includes writing some code or picking up some > > code (e.g. packages) written by others. YMMV. 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19 Aug 2023 04:22:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49178 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXDUJ-0006Vf-Gj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 00:22:59 -0400 Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.132]:12255) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXDUH-0006VS-Hp for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 00:22:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 04:22:36 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692418970; x=1692678170; bh=WL/C/CrMDSWfXcF4PtKEw46S6m3NbxidYbewxUCnwdM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=OO8rNp5xubA1JZD3ijO5ARCh0ddTXFEE1Q0GvEA3j3xYuIERUSDvFTg1bh4+iHARW OH0AMYk1Ji7G9JkpmrN99TDKBzU6dMEnxMwqJnqKoFUFlm5et1Iw2fVoD0HZ2u3HFS E3i4QSC9wuAk3J9qcMqT7cDkRZLzNXOOKmEkCKitzkSjpgXveVaVn6kgs6zpSIsDWt gjx4iwziUo+2EoPftqzLw+yrsnoxO5K+16JFtyq9v7X9LtXQeEyhKFCT3LQmd+SWuZ qEWmd8F1lDwNEK1ESlyPkGOMBL4RlbkxMEmgqATjTFTY8Uf+L1n68trHeHLP52/rmy P99a0/UhOEp9A== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <83y1i93t7x.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 4:14 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > Would it not be better to COLLECTION and HISTORY separate ? >=20 >=20 > You already have my opinion: yes. And they always > have been, till Someone (TM) decided recently that > future history should include all of the candidates > in COLLECTION. Right. Because entries in history ought to be stored in history as you input values, not before. 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19 Aug 2023 05:05:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXE9q-0007cX-ED for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:05:54 -0400 Received: from mail-40141.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.141]:24635) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXE9o-0007cF-0f for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:05:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:05:41 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692421544; x=1692680744; bh=wwe5mwQGPG+TNhiJrok27Z0GqnmBTr4vHu6Ee4klV8o=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=G3fi0FHRBkKS66NFUX202lCavrsExqMXSxak4HgXV7uJ8tOHpgEy/VC8K2KnLj+u3 HRf3HPa3yd23h+oPXzt+zeer2un+p/8aZNSH7dL208UmfbR9jQwES5oEXdmQRSVHRI /eMRvgfjMIZIfR6lM9LCXc3VvZUdXvW/ebON8oFyWLrhgY8yM0gcZKxwGMG4Mwmwud 4jdiq1tHwTFMT+n3+x8QqweCW93bCkDODvVpiHA98PHigxDHqce2F9tTu/sBuaWgBv xwxxna63Losf/dOuM2cBBjTrAP1J1kEv8heh72/eZsnHZmBwnot2tJZhzf6YZ4AO7L keqGRF/SCGiBQ== To: Drew Adams From: Heime Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <20R1-cGUtXe8gGwpzmjNHlz39n0IhiK5lKCn-K1ojbdvMs9R2svYlvbpbFZRqgNZ5i8IYFSO_nitMCNWsw3hg1Zef3DJSjdgZSn5qjXcp8g=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, August 19th, 2023 at 4:46 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > > Would it not be better to COLLECTION and HISTORY separate ? > > >=20 > > > You already have my opinion: yes. And they always > > > have been, till Someone (TM) decided recently that > > > future history should include all of the candidates > > > in COLLECTION. > >=20 > > Right. Because entries in history ought to be stored in history > > as you input values, not before. >=20 >=20 > Not so, for "future history" (and that's why that cute > term isn't a good one). The so-called "future history" > is one or more DEFAULT values you can retrieve and use > as input if you like. >=20 > After use of DEFAULT (`M-n') got rebaptized as using > "future history", Someone (TM) got the dim idea to add > all of COLLECTION to that list, along with the DEFAULT > values. DEFAULT values belong, properly, to "future > history" (though that's a misleading misnomer). >=20 > But COLLECTION doesn't belong in "future history". > The reason isn't what you gave, though. It's proper > to fill the "future history" before you choose input, > but it's only proper to fill it with default values. > What's not good is to also fill it with all of the > possible completion choices. Eli, would there be some capability to improve the aforementioned function from the merits held by the discussion that is happening ? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 19 02:34:44 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2023 06:34:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXFXo-0001ja-CB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:34:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXFXl-0001jN-KQ for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:34:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXFXe-0001zb-66; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:34:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=3M7T44Qz+Kf+A5yPAefFKJ7dYHrwlvdnxSHTw/j1jcU=; b=WJBPUNc+oMrUVBf34Sp/ zYR9VdLwJ/k9VGbukEkIUagq4YMVIf7tPVpQnBgz3Ygh3NtBozekWI3Bdp7LOMm7Ztcqw3EUI9N9o i1I/8Bhn5oS7XwxSg7Q/hOqcGCFr2EqsOEqBwc7kWSYpT6QSrM0Rfg37zbznaMsO6DmnlaLt6kfBf WyTQGklTyCeb3DB5ulFQpERtApLHC/S+APYD3amMJodR9pSwTGGqY2bybfH8xzXFl6/CcAIdPE2Vz uT36GoJWdFd1t+JaFixy6KGRrqh65DoNNiQVrlJkoNAMVgzzYMBTDPOkpVCnpdhZBpqqNNh0isXgp eVBuZzqQJqSAfQ==; Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 09:34:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Heime In-Reply-To: <20R1-cGUtXe8gGwpzmjNHlz39n0IhiK5lKCn-K1ojbdvMs9R2svYlvbpbFZRqgNZ5i8IYFSO_nitMCNWsw3hg1Zef3DJSjdgZSn5qjXcp8g=@protonmail.com> (message from Heime on Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:05:41 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <20R1-cGUtXe8gGwpzmjNHlz39n0IhiK5lKCn-K1ojbdvMs9R2svYlvbpbFZRqgNZ5i8IYFSO_nitMCNWsw3hg1Zef3DJSjdgZSn5qjXcp8g=@protonmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 05:05:41 +0000 > From: Heime > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> > > > Not so, for "future history" (and that's why that cute > > term isn't a good one). The so-called "future history" > > is one or more DEFAULT values you can retrieve and use > > as input if you like. > > > > After use of DEFAULT (`M-n') got rebaptized as using > > "future history", Someone (TM) got the dim idea to add > > all of COLLECTION to that list, along with the DEFAULT > > values. DEFAULT values belong, properly, to "future > > history" (though that's a misleading misnomer). > > > > But COLLECTION doesn't belong in "future history". > > The reason isn't what you gave, though. It's proper > > to fill the "future history" before you choose input, > > but it's only proper to fill it with default values. > > What's not good is to also fill it with all of the > > possible completion choices. > > Eli, would there be some capability to improve the aforementioned > function from the merits held by the discussion that is happening ? You can try starting a discussion on emacs-devel if you want. But the above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its merit in many situations, so be prepared for hearing people who think they like the current situation and object to changing it. Drew's opinion on this are not new, and have been heard (and rejected) before. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: pLWc3aYM+vFIKqqCrjPm86GxFOaE8AgOpZ6WEbpi/8s0R9FEyTTcGr6zdn6HrkNmY46czWquuWVD3M0RFXzLdseTlANBeoWxFMp8olnAQ/tPZPWk2wxcQtsJSe1vBR9gzA080iJim5TyqZgSmVin6AX3ZMquwgpuM6NPFGMnmTSROKrujNz/p+6sGzOPIlfLJMes2tnTBPCT3LMwJyWEQfUw5CO3tKXlmZE8fwXSMst7XR54KQ4CElGDsfzajcQ0jLZ3HX1h+Hj/e1J9g127p0J/BNPC9ZO5TC4NVoqDNsJ8H4BQ6F7h/D0yRzKD7VGf4tmLHlyoTeohpVVvx8ASJPHmPDbDo4mo5shpBq/EZTabGRwkQHXXYUNB8MAYEHwyBHdESQVjte+xk6yLgeqG1a6YnlZzDe/hq7WaIEt3BC1TUeWEHC+gLrN68DUsaeWrVRmauBDSrqF8i18JOV4rcoLgr+vituGRR1RKvbAOCqxdW0fOqRtU9wrAo1CNXpitugzhFJN1j6ddJROQRND9KubKAoiKhDR1CZ4fOIsqwQwB0yfbOneummcbUOpzwlIg5DheisGBWRlH/5J2HgPSzQb7MQPyXw6LHJFMC7xbbGSz7riDw/Co9uWutFL1wNkkxlIwhHTIE2Dw8mEijbewnagxG5P8yVw9RayIsVlklQjN0iNUNIoJof20q208esgv6Ctv1hJ8Mdxo5lciOQlLi+xGJLI6PrlPH5/LAqLcsweJFTzXYA/7iv9598xxioFZOWJUPAyUvJF7oWFV02CDsgBhWcdGnOX2CX+uOUz5XWnfPGKR4g9Ty67ujYlKKiGu X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fd6bfda1-bfcf-46f2-c784-08dba0d02710 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Aug 2023 16:20:07.1825 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NkY3MT+6Sk767GEUHw/0uShP9o/cv9CcKOPmhkd66yHIhdjab9MjqqgsuhgbTAFADJFiPWFkhQ43KB6FZJkuPg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DS0PR10MB7522 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.601,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-08-19_18,2023-08-18_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=921 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2308190157 X-Proofpoint-GUID: -DOOo6W9cjyhnVMbWJeK5hEn1I1cDOSV X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: -DOOo6W9cjyhnVMbWJeK5hEn1I1cDOSV X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > You can try starting a discussion on emacs-devel if you want. But the > above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its > merit in many situations, I don't see that it has merit in any situation. I haven't seen a single example cited where it has merit. Can you point to one? I really don't see any value in this behavior. And I think you agreed that it's obvious that in some cases (such as the `C-h v' example cited in bug #64656) it's _clearly_ not helpful but harmful. > so be prepared for hearing people who think > they like the current situation and object to changing it. Drew's > opinion on this are not new, and have been heard (and rejected) > before. I searched but didn't see anywhere where my opinion on this was rejected. I think the relevant thread is that of bug #64656, which you intentionally kept open for this very question: whether COLLECTION should be automatically added to "future history". https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D64656 Below are some relevant extracts from what I wrote there. The question I posed of what value this "feature" has was never answered. I'd like to hear about "its merit in many situations". You didn't point to any situations in that bug thread. Do you have any (let only "many") in mind? It's an honest question. I don't get the point of this feature. What am I missing? >From bug #64656: ___ But I'm asking about the general idea behind this default behavior: What use case(s) does it really help with? Even with a small list of (empty-input) completions, and even when those are in some meaningful/useful order, what's the use case for adding them to `M-n', which is a carefully designed default or list of defaults? Why use the completion domain as a set of defaults - at all? ___ 1. I'm asking whether this feature (addition of completion domain automatically) shouldn't be revisited, maybe even removed, and at least default to OFF. 2. If that revisit is NOT to be, then I'm asking that the doc at least (a) point out that this automatic behavior can be problematic, and (b) tell users how to (i) turn it off and (ii) control it a bit if not turned off. That control can include limiting the size and sorting the elements to be added. ___ ELI> If we think that future history in some case ELI> is useless, TRT is to change the code so ELI> that it ceases to be useless, 100% agreement. That's why that was my first priority request. Fix this and there likely will be no, or little, need to change the doc. I didn't assume that others would agree that the behavior is harmful. I thought too that I might just be missing something. The behavior seems so bizarre to me that I don't understand why it would have been adopted. Benefit of the doubt made me guess I'm maybe just misunderstanding. ___ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 19 15:19:47 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Aug 2023 19:19:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52310 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXRUB-0008HU-H7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 15:19:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXRU9-0008HG-N1 for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 15:19:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXRU2-0001wL-Bk; Sat, 19 Aug 2023 15:19:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rgMC4wutfiMC1B2Pg8iadxQ+x/MXkTIiH4Af4IChzaY=; b=nrZNVsrgluR0 FdXeWG8++6v/t0MeZKCiDu622q0z2XgF0n37KCD4lVyP21MIJ+PHGHe3gKrcKBlicvsWZlJqCF2h3 zMSnfE8slZ3kMbTRSxb/PGVg7HMHESVWKS46NiWTK5PQKRPRJHSDvzU7xCMMRMd+4Q+/qUjG/+FrT VYZYqOwnjb1iQLX4tODUOQuKqANqJecK2OtbbuFN8zbyuFw5931DTVnpE69ESysxsB7nyaAemyH2e hz6GdFRDg9Q2/glc89N8VYgtRaT34lDaI0+Hfao5OAhM/+s0xzWqes2D9qU9WQxV9CkFu7HJO89W1 6OQP2cpVwa/wiyKHivr5tw==; Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 22:19:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 19 Aug 2023 16:20:07 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <20R1-cGUtXe8gGwpzmjNHlz39n0IhiK 5lKCn-K1ojbdvMs9R2svYlvbpbFZRqgNZ5i8IYFSO_nitMCNWsw3hg1Zef3DJSjdgZSn5qjXcp8g=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 16:20:07 +0000 > > > You can try starting a discussion on emacs-devel if you want. But the > > above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its > > merit in many situations, > > I don't see that it has merit in any situation. The situations where it's useful are obvious. > I haven't seen a single example cited where it > has merit. Can you point to one? What for? so you could argue endlessly that you disagree? We already know that you don't like that change and think it should be reverted, so what would be the purpose of another discussion about that? > And I think you agreed that it's obvious that in > some cases (such as the `C-h v' example cited in > bug #64656) it's _clearly_ not helpful but harmful. In some, quite extreme, case, indeed, it is not useful. That doesn't yet mean it is always useless. Again, we've been through that, and I really have no reason to do it again. Life is too short. 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But th= e > > > above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its > > > merit in many situations, > > > > I don't see that it has merit in any situation. >=20 > The situations where it's useful are obvious. Instead of claiming that, maybe you can point to one or two? That shouldn't be hard. I'd really like to hear about it. > > I haven't seen a single example cited where it > > has merit. Can you point to one? >=20 > What for? so you could argue endlessly that you disagree? We already > know that you don't like that change and think it should be reverted, > so what would be the purpose of another discussion about that? C'mon, Eli. I won't disagree if I see the point. So far, I haven't seen one example of a use case or heard one concrete argument for why this helps. Give it a try. What's a use case, obvious to you or not? What's a reason why you think it helps? A priori, I would like to see this removed as the _default_ behavior. But I don't expect that. Next best would be a good user option to tame it or even turn it off altogether. =20 > > And I think you agreed that it's obvious that in > > some cases (such as the `C-h v' example cited in > > bug #64656) it's _clearly_ not helpful but harmful. >=20 > In some, quite extreme, case, indeed, it is not useful. > That doesn't yet mean it is always useless. Agreed. (Re-agreed, in fact.) To ask that we be able to tame it doesn't require a claim that it's always useless. I don't know that it's always useless. I've only said that I haven't seen an example of when/how it's useful. In case you're thinking, for your "obvious" use cases, of a case where you have few completion candidates, such as just "alpha", "beta", "gamma", then let's not forget that you can already cycle among those now, as completion candidates, without having them added to the future history. That's available since Stefan added candidate cycling, AFAIK. > Again, we've been through that, and I really have > no reason to do it again. Life is too short. I don't think we've been through this at all. I expressed my view (so far) that this feature doesn't help and is generally an obstacle. But AFAIK there's been no discussion, pro & con. You act like there's already been some big discussion. I haven't found any. This is the most I've written on it, in this little bug thread, read by maybe 3 people. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 20 01:42:56 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 05:42:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDD-0007dM-RS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:42:56 -0400 Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.130]:23475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDC-0007d9-AS for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:42:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 05:42:43 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692510166; x=1692769366; bh=X9bRxoPoalyzaRQruGGOYTgG0EwW+J3CuQ2QtQTfh1s=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=wdLrI85CWrGy8VS33pSDiALlrZF8KNVToinYtqj0CFH9TtbOkJkcG0mn1MYobus4I GK7Y60wDye4Cw6CLsa9QwAS7xXRboc0IQ2sckZTHG858N/j73emCvHzIUZ5eXGLItD POoq0h4CzJOXrkrCOCz1PI2BWdINGwObDQYc04dEcfILxPP3b/es1fRIn3yvMAHaVA PakbcEiEyjf1GSq6mLw4tX3xuODca7hgyjo/lWqrIKCSOUSwLuQVEylRM3VV8wdLv1 Q3A40RExtoEAbDZgXp61kDDCMqYOVY/IJqZLTNTnZH6naQk1WBYQ/4jOoZVdFmL4G9 uk9VplZV5AxfA== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Sunday, August 20th, 2023 at 7:19 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > From: Drew Adams drew.adams@oracle.com > > CC: "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 16:20:07 +0000 > >=20 > > > You can try starting a discussion on emacs-devel if you want. But the > > > above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its > > > merit in many situations, > >=20 > > I don't see that it has merit in any situation. >=20 >=20 > The situations where it's useful are obvious. >=20 > > I haven't seen a single example cited where it > > has merit. Can you point to one? >=20 >=20 > What for? so you could argue endlessly that you disagree? We already > know that you don't like that change and think it should be reverted, > so what would be the purpose of another discussion about that? >=20 > > And I think you agreed that it's obvious that in > > some cases (such as the `C-h v' example cited in > > bug #64656) it's clearly not helpful but harmful. >=20 > In some, quite extreme, case, indeed, it is not useful. That doesn't > yet mean it is always useless. Using a list in collection for cycling using an 'initial-value' ('default-v= alue' if that what most people would like it to be, is not an extreme case. =20 =20 > Again, we've been through that, and I really have no reason to do it > again. Life is too short. Will 'INITIAL-VALUE' be deprecated and made obsolete. Then we would be usi= ng 'DEF' ? One thing that bothers me quite a bit is the idea of obsolescence, but in practice we keep things as they are for the sake of not breaking com= patibility with older versions. The result is a complicated call definitions that whi= le they exist, a concurrent rule is actually in effect suggesting others what = should be used and not used. =20 While providing multiple ways of accomplishing tasks can offer flexibility = and=20 accommodate various preferences and use cases, leaving conflicting or redun= dant features leads to confusion and complexity for developers working with the = codebase. Deprecation should mean removing them in newer versions with instructions t= o developers on migrating to the alternative. Can there be the option to place an item from the collection (call it 'INIT= IAL', 'DEF', 'WHATEVER') that appears as soon as `completing-read` is called ? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 20 02:13:24 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 06:13:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbgh-0000Jg-Me for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:13:23 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:47190) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbgf-0000JF-Gr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:13:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbgW-0006vk-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:13:13 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbgU-0002Zr-J4; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:13:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1692511977; x=1693116777; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=ghc0spok+8rmLxSSBHXI80YDJP7x32R3tbvLsjqUcwg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=L/iig2xyKW79rXQrWGgQz+vK6H0gvu57xBYhmVCVULHC4e0Gxepjnik/pcJr8PTZPtgILNR atbBKwQwdQmEnioXRnE0Qu7ZPmg3Oo1FuNWQ8+gnF/HVfgyE78CU9HPTIhc5i5zhaWtdtPpdX oHWAca+gGgccuFCThaEd6UWnCSjihiTk0NfemEyqft0IwDygigW0YT3LxYCfVd+wPKZUUCVxx K3vR322rRfxyXub/6ZSgLtuncWV+n7RhxXqxS8T1WorP7hwH6b0k28uYYL3ha/CTstXHJ15da 3SY57knlbPFYdfKeazoDn26S7IvZCy7CfuZCKIxUffga33mqKldw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.60.174.218]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MSIJ0-1q9Qwq40Mq-00Sdcz; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 08:12:57 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively In-Reply-To: <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> (Heime via's message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2023 05:42:43 +0000") References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 08:12:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:U1QDqhScQkth6Q6k4EUl6LNScu/M+BLpyLpdwfv51oqUOXG/GBH Y4Vo7g589z4p8VdEE65/vPv0RXmgV8mdZKNiA7JQ16Xv1h+KSJ6qIjKNE/2/kGsIXvZWTtq NSEB4yoXArmYbvwpHe3U1s09CYCzW/mIddo9J24EnkUW6PoTcKJfSMLjYnHyeNli+x6KsXx qNZr9qof5puNBvmjjdvuA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:LgzL/q1bm9I=;1a2tVbK+G9RFC2dYLb1zbNFO3oe RnxThlqxhTNTlapvwY/nlKl1w+AKgcex3dCOP26Kga0O+IUp+965G1OhraPhDupYVTSjh0wkp vKzlzZoEF2ImC89K41d9tRHfV/oiSGMLD7Gk6fkXUUqkgJS4NePhc2tWWDnUz8YWaEXW1XbKo xyiiM8VTa9LY3WM9zPpNukn/aoyMiXx0E9jggj47GjnZQFp5+Sr7OMEWKa08i11cxvZ21DAp6 OyTVuyzY4+3pLP6gRcktGcLDmx31oUUgq97zEPbEBTjMKNd5s01sjB+ZyJQVeDriNhAsFDGiz eSJp7RdmfLVEARhUq2jJwjF/UQGEUASKj7W/2SSmSE+H23pqzR11C4+WTeGBdtXd7AiDzuWM1 0nK8bE9zLvCgRQiBsWBKLkEF3MYvjXKMT8ZP/ajajpL1+RTYzxlj8zv4mWwFTmRuOYpHpmi4q 64990ioDoVioMhuJsrd/vJN+mMJTig+4dsJXdtXPvSZnWaao9E7R5BoIdQ1yi4Nl1mTpuWA1Z GGHmCkk/qJMCAuzFahSj+l0/YCZI46WKkX1omqSXZPQ7JBz5Ke2vOZHFrDk13pgInCSjIrb36 /SqbykHtK4tn3qybVF06nkyCUspMhyZ0dXlCiRw/WE8xZtxsrtRQ3v0ON5MivbaEnkZDmgNQ9 zEYwsyRZAYd8vR0meo9oE21NvXA6R+IwXp1SO+rvyCZ/EbHLTNAMGershTFeYjeQXa3XLiEyr 9xFffXwKvE6jFybYw5FRIXamkVI2hMqbolsfiE+p1Wz+t5hVJVI4fE0x+dQMLOj8G+VnwDw9f /EkdHbaYPdWLhdhreYyWOtmiMi8x+o2tjunc6pamHlW7krva0L2Dt49qfJS76uGp0wF4Pqvdi GbQ//OGuS0iy0Iq9fsqdHe6iYgmG+ngdCbf3dTkttPmjdujeUNzklKkwRH1UPjYrPKH5/yU31 r/QG0aJRwUdA6gmBVQhZjWXWKC0= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Heime , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" writes: > Can there be the option to place an item from the collection (call it > 'INITIAL', 'DEF', 'WHATEVER') > that appears as soon as `completing-read` is called ? If I understand correctly and you want still want to start with a prefilled minibuffer: you can still achieve this by using `minibuffer-with-setup-hook' - like in #+begin_src emacs-lisp (minibuffer-with-setup-hook (lambda () (insert "BBB")) (completing-read "Input: " (list "AAA" "BBB" "CCC"))) #+end_src Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 20 02:24:13 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 06:24:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbrB-0000bT-DP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:24:13 -0400 Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.19]:53871) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbr8-0000bB-Dh for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:24:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 06:23:59 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692512642; x=1692771842; bh=cXXp30I0qq6N6snHe3CKw7E5k/NbIR5Zs950s3iAWsQ=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=G4pHoHDfR92cccqnoi+Xo0D4F8xfClSeU24/mIveEL/pwhZa8h+B84yoz9W8FXm3b S4OQ/59642JoeP4bxFprp6fsHG7oZL5qqPFtc6TXIfz1tgVxShcoqjTQuI3Zg8Xqs1 pn4SevvxdVCIFck4YXY+UvzBIfBqMaK7MvSLJTQWceR4uxgPvxAPLGu69UWTm7YlAv qCve4aM/2/a4tAEXfhPAq1CwTjLL+O2FOZy902yzYgOHxEJ4fB420g7Ttu3ZM1oE28 vC/wHfWr20JjsnIwhj7EuggYOvSg8uj0PtWcln7Hf1g0qL/hrvN4ZK9635Typ2Rlvu DtLATqU6LaVpw== To: Michael Heerdegen From: Heime Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) ------- Original Message ------- On Sunday, August 20th, 2023 at 6:12 PM, Michael Heerdegen wrote: > Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text > editors" bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org writes: >=20 > > Can there be the option to place an item from the collection (call it > > 'INITIAL', 'DEF', 'WHATEVER') > > that appears as soon as `completing-read` is called ? >=20 >=20 > If I understand correctly and you want still want to start with a > prefilled minibuffer: you can still achieve this by using > `minibuffer-with-setup-hook' - like in >=20 > #+begin_src emacs-lisp > (minibuffer-with-setup-hook (lambda () (insert "BBB")) > (completing-read "Input: " (list "AAA" "BBB" "CCC"))) > #+end_src >=20 > Michael. How complicated my friend from the old single call to 'completing-read'. I cannot use such thing in all my interactive call functions. I have seen so many deliberation about keeping existing functionality for the old chap= s, yet showing complete disregard on such possibilities on this refilled minib= uffer capability. The claim that life is too short to give a fuck does not abode well. =20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 20 02:35:29 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 06:35:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXc24-00012F-Lm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:35:28 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:46853) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXc21-00011s-Oc for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:35:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1692513292; x=1693118092; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=/QJDc3w9uuQMp4wihlVg7ILI5Vy7xACh2GQ7pweiO74=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=Hplt17JKNCSKMv8/u4MBFY8VxnJlKVfwPePLHQgNc284Y+rgspmgh3pj46F3blwD8v1RWln j7rWb2SBq2I2D8sqgTsFVNyLIbKcRou6sSLIrwg+xGgg2LDgFfm3H9Bn6WShSnWYhRTNr3c0H AqqaIy/eQNJLHZtA5vtVY5Kj+URwyl46D9AUNDAOtU/yup4TCiIr/8RRxlwVGhyAzKjKi/GRH 5i/VcWD73n4KG+sDNpwLHqA6M/3hETu8q4XAbhMT/4ht/T75Vr+cIkX5OZYlEn5PBJreQcXYH YUzkYjB4r1HfY64sM77y+LQu6ZQj9upT83dQa0mF2bo7JhvpefQQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [141.8.81.247] ([141.8.81.247]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs10.server.lan [172.19.170.178]) (via HTTP); Sun, 20 Aug 2023 08:34:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 08:34:52 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:h7UN1/e8a92z+oCuStbUP7QU2/fa9xAlGPDgCRxiBy8Eepl6h9DJrOlux4X2VXQL72DRg 91lmDhQRJx2d3G5skpglnID+SnSBsGM/3j+ayTCASDNYG6GVMOVc0dfowc1nYqO+VN0BU6LIopC4 MfAyC5+GXV41IK6aSGAJhKvU9Fxi1b7FE+YCByOcs1+VGJOVAnMAG7fqJkThOsXlEcnsyu+UjOFW w46fSLs+RrnjdNy4vJdG0VJhcTuKkc6G1zevapiOxfp7DEND2f/6N5VQBg4OR6pvEzIKB2RCKQNA Sc= X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:JGVUepG76Hg=;5CKnPCcYB2aFGIJiXkOgzrzuc0Z neC6l97vTkuFqYtHG1FRGsB6zSwwIJQ/cSRkYaX0n4FP5qzwQ7SLy6fz19e4glnjP9RypDcj7 xLGv2auD6CjOgP6Ls3fYT2dhNVOsFZn6LdUCBDgdlwvYLlx2acia/J5tAO1fO0odsGR95rK+F BFqWLGH/upt7pA12nGPj5mwlt93w5WiiX23EOvVbbkzlJedF9ZHQBld4wmYXHGOvRYbCxfQ2Y eefmioKxzA0hh7brhljJ58bMgM8Td6DLjMm4kJa0qbEhE4E/f8IjyKXt1fMuxGzkcM/8F9ZcV y6mw0ZHsZjazQKpxNg4Yn1pI41CI2xxBN9mzV2qzKF/0DXxiCAYx1aLfxL/FeuDNwxyem29CQ onNg+onIpXJOoF1xqleJdtI5Su1elk/zAM6FeckxFBhgcXXnEjIYL99is4aXN3eh8q9MDeBKh nTiU4EUTFBoiJtI70/67ZghVeKwT9H/Sn4Nb5ZkkiKgcYTHvhjqJxtj7Rit1sKJrzmhOEU0PS SoQTbHxkEqRljMoX2KHADp00uSTS5HSMKAFnHQH7FZuypRRF7wJc3C7vCTVnNDfczh01bMWCi uL+8IHtZkZYtXXPlKV/JNxMcWdjA8aB7U3Vfdz0rG0KR8I5tXo9neW2QIbLD9czO54Cg8DCA9 pEPJ06CU0rexxSzKTg+xc/linaJKfCRI3eGzioMOxxMWyhKO9YtVqNsY81dAt3jI+WJ2HxLMx PeHsATsQIYruhHhFr7+/RqIgn7G1hvELoqLqaah0uNjzQ5pJDhkdc8bo1XnuwH+a3Hf+BVpSY 5tSbwcGm9DpoFuT3a8jDj6jg== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 6:12 PM > From: "Michael Heerdegen" > To: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com > Subject: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry = twice consecutively > > Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text > editors" writes: > > > Can there be the option to place an item from the collection (call it > > 'INITIAL', 'DEF', 'WHATEVER') > > that appears as soon as `completing-read` is called ? > > If I understand correctly and you want still want to start with a > prefilled minibuffer: you can still achieve this by using > `minibuffer-with-setup-hook' - like in > > #+begin_src emacs-lisp > (minibuffer-with-setup-hook (lambda () (insert "BBB")) > (completing-read "Input: " (list "AAA" "BBB" "CCC"))) > #+end_src > > Michael. I suggest that the capability of prefilling the minibuffer be reintroduced for the new scheme as well. Because from what I see, the deprecated parts include a feature that will be automatically discarded under the new schem= e. > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 20 13:27:47 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 17:27:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXmDL-0004u8-FX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 13:27:47 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:47649) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXmDJ-0004th-LC for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 13:27:46 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9DB5BC0002; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 17:27:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 19 Aug 2023 20:56:19 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 19:39:23 +0300 Message-ID: <86lee6owj0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > In case you're thinking, for your "obvious" use > cases, of a case where you have few completion > candidates, such as just "alpha", "beta", "gamma", > then let's not forget that you can already cycle > among those now, as completion candidates, without > having them added to the future history. That's > available since Stefan added candidate cycling, > AFAIK. Your answers are too short. Please elaborate what do you mean by "candidate cycling" and what keys do you press to cycle candidates? Then maybe this cycling could be used instead of 'M-n'. 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That's > > available since Stefan added candidate cycling, > > AFAIK. >=20 > Your answers are too short. Please elaborate > what do you mean by "candidate cycling" and > what keys do you press to cycle candidates? Sorry. First, I'm no expert on the cycling provided by vanilla Emacs. I believe Stefan introduced it. He can probably tell you more, and better. There are two different completion metadata entries, `display-sort-function' and `cycle-sort-function'. See (elisp) `Programmed Completion': https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Programmed-Comple= tion.html (I don't see why anyone would ever want those two to have different values, but I don't think my ignorance about that is very relevant here.) Dunno whether there is some key that, by _default_, invokes one or the other of those functions. I use them in a two of my libraries, `sortie.el' and `keysee.el', to use vanilla Emacs cycling for cycling and display, together. With sortie.el, when you hit a key (`C-,' by default) the candidates in *Completions* are re-sorted, and so are the candidates you cycle through (same sort order). So when you cycle to a candidate, that's also the current candidate in *Completions*. To turn on cycling you need to give `completion-cycle-threshold' a non-nil value. Then you can cycle among candidates using `TAB'. keysee.el uses key descriptions as candidates. sortie.el uses sort orders (functions) as candidates. keysee.el uses sortie.el to let you change how its candidate key descriptions are sorted. In the Commentary of sortie there's a simple example of using the features it provides. Here's most of that example: (defun my-completion-with-sort-cycling () "Read and echo choice using completion with sort-order cycling." (interactive) (minibuffer-with-setup-hook #'sorti-bind-cycle-key (let ((sorti-current-order 'order1) (sorti-sort-function-chooser 'my-sort-fn-chooser) (sorti-sort-orders-alist '((order1 . "alphabetical") (order2 . "by length"))) (sorti-sort-orders-ring (let ((rng (make-ring 4))) (ring-insert rng 'order1) (ring-insert rng 'order2) rng))) (message "RESULT: %S" (completing-read "fff: " (my-collection-fn '("aa" "bb" "ab" "aaff" "c"))))))) (defun my-collection-fn (candidates) "Collection function that provides metadata for sorting. Sorting is per the current value of `my-sort-fn-chooser'." (lambda (string pred action) (if (eq action 'metadata) (let ((order (my-sort-fn-chooser))) `(metadata ,@(and order `((display-sort-function . ,order) (cycle-sort-function . ,order))))) (complete-with-action action candidates string pred)))) (defun my-sort-fn-chooser () "Return sort function for current value of `sorti-current-order'." (if (eq 'order2 sorti-current-order) 'my-sort-by-length 'my-sort-alphabetically)) So for example, with both sortie.el and keysee.el loaded, if you turn on mode `kc-mode' then * `S-TAB' shows currently available key bindings. * `C-,' re-sorts them in a few different ways (for both *Completions* display and cycling). You cycle among the available sort orders, to choose one, with `completing-read'. * `TAB' cycles among the key bindings, to choose one, with `completing-read'. ___ As I say, I don't know how others make use of the vanilla cycling feature. Maybe Emacs provides a key for such cycling by default, but I doubt it. I think you have to define the cycling yourself, by defining a function (such as `my-collection-fn' above) that dynamically sorts the candidates to produce a COLLECTION that's sorted as desired. But is it really needed - by default, i.e., in general - to be able to cycle among all candidates in COLLECTION? Certainly some libraries, such as Icicles, offer that, but it's not as if it's so essential that vanilla Emacs should provide it by default, I think. It makes sense to give coders ways to provide candidate cycling when they want it for `completing-read'. My main point was that IF any such cycling of COLLECTION entries is provided, it need not, and should NOT, be part of the history (future or not). Leave the history cycling to minibuffer input HISTORY and to DEFAULTS. If you want cycling of all candidates in COLLECTION then provide that as a different kind of cycling (different key). > Then maybe this cycling could be used instead of 'M-n'. No, not in my opinion; not at all. `M-n' should be only for cycling forward in the history, just as `M-p' should be for cycling backward. Users should know that that's what's being cycled, and that those things are NOT, in general, candidates from COLLECTION. (Think lax completion.) The "feature" of unequivocally adding COLLECTION to the history mixes things that don't belong together. It doesn't help users, IMO; and it can confuse them, by mixing carrots with car parts. My call is to first-and-foremost give control to (1) users interactively and (2) coders who call `completing-read'. We already have a way for any coder to add all of COLLECTION to the "future history": use it as, or include it in, the value of argument DEFAULTS. _End of story._ That gives coders 100% control over such addition. It's not blindly imposed on them. And it's easy to obtain when/if they want it. Easy peasy. They already have COLLECTION - just pass it also as arg DEFAULTS (or part of DEFAULTS). Arg DEFAULTS should, _alone_, determine/define the "future history". You can do anything you want with it, including get the current behavior that gets imposed unilaterally. But you need not live with that imposition. Do I want to argue this in emacs-devel? Not really. I really don't have time for such things these days. But do I wish something were done to remove this imposition and give control back to coders & users? Absolutely. If this makes sense to you, go for it. And I think it's simple to do: (1) Stop filling future history with COLLECTION, or at least provide a simple means to stop that. (2) Point out to users that IF they want to for some reason (the "many" use cases Eli hinted at), they can simply include all of COLLECTION as, or in, the future history, by just passing it as (or as part of) the list arg DEFAULTS. What's more, they can sort it first, any way they like. And they can filter it, if they don't want to include _all_ of COLLECTION. The current "feature" is brutal - it's a one-size-fits-none, IMO. It was never needed (DEFAULT suffices), and it can't be turned off. #2 is maybe not obvious, even though it has been available since Day One. If it were really so useful in "many" situations then I think we would have seen "many" users pass COLLECTION also as DEFAULTS (e.g. before Emacs 23). I seriously doubt we'v seen many - maybe not even any. Yet someone thought it was a great idea to impose that behavior always, on everyone - every call to `completing-read' that uses an explicit COLLECTION. Dunno who did that, and as Eli says, apparently it was done in Emacs 23. I guess many of us just never noticed it. BTW, what about a COLLECTION that's not explicit, that's realized bit by bit with a function? That doesn't work anyway for this "feature", I guess. You need to manifest an explicit COLLECTION, in order to add it to any history (history needs to be manifest for the call to `completing-read'). (I guess if you know the candidate domain you can use `all-completions' with a function COLLECTION to get an explicit version, if you really need to add it to the future history.) HTH. 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Mon, 21 Aug 2023 00:25:51 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Christopher Dimech , Michael Heerdegen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Thread-Index: AQHZ0zBsKD7t82DCr0ihIwjIpmzs06/zxHWg Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 00:25:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|CO1PR10MB4657:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b4c8235f-931d-4af9-0261-08dba1dd2d0e x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:26:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:26:07 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:vKTpGdhCEolXxcgg9I6cr5hvcHPlpWuDUf93rFpOgQNfS9YqIdT8hSbLeFPcCxNZFMl2D RSECkjMhTSJW+2dj5F55yoLUk/xW9fzEmaEzd9Jie9EoAYPZbTLrhdp4vQw+or8xYoIntiCQhFt1 9LkCmt9rmOFesGSjJzQHl1ahdK9v54S/zIrlKvq2GMl7Lp2mLY2BYjGnyvnkcQEBs9jJSbq05x4I o46L2R0v6VgEa9fXJV0FlSzLII+bSmxucI98M80jFLT7JeP1hz53DTJMbDU1ZW2BL5yAic0Ocn1F RE= X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:qLuSYbRYV6U=;yuk8vEQ4VhU5vFKsLOBJZ85mzhI dJENMdvvqv9BMLEuNdqdNZVS4j7F8VWyl85DzBu58wRTjTZAC8+dk1chteb6sO99BMLb+6eNh 3BIrGuxt77dhmL/AzhNUTqOqgjzdcNF60uIAju2sT6MKOypeG0qgPcC8C8nZCpQC8cDt/rOY/ LjT7IcPKSWt4bdo5aJ6gd88BydjOkU1vJvCMYXDQotUadZgn2CSpHnjgzDmnFyRDEfVwIJb7N tLjrZZiD2HC171/h5vnN1JKdv4XAbmQiL80nUQVtj5CRm049NJDwvjG1ntvdweTSTOkvcMUQh SXTKazhxG4INygFc5ppy8TyBBLjPjMLK7Wq1uMwvMiDisgfWwEP6LF9J/OonVnrzYiVfUCfPg ddSyeRQKeR33T+cLymcR222WXLLJgoq9PAquxsjNgMhWdUGaR8fO/7diZ2A8CcmYmBlwDshlB 3rLyp/73VHVCC4Mpde8qjmP3ApbSKOO4lAOYQUFXYM5dGnKBCwUPhMm6yFmVjRVjPYYRDPS4L Mwc73l0m+LYNwbFSb0wD1aFibDAwOufTcnHklGaR/djr+9abQzQ25iWb4PbffCXzRMx9OW+7t X5y0DYZPwmv2zbKGYuD7SPJlmtI3ln9c+78jt+owCi8cIFwIDiJ5ffzMqxPKEbOPE72PqgcgT Fx7CgRn+3hUo7KGwnLSkZ10MDxPhNi/CB83eVmZ4zdOFkHPAhgiP1/cQ5RHIQBwzb4/UkA0sq qUbnvDqimxyCMwyT0NyM19Qik6xbrII0ERfk78q0lHDDKlWPWHoHz2+Sb2TWAmDcEFHWlzVFW G4L4sCr/5MBlT4qdjxJ9C80hsLdF3qGOgcBaME2bIwvEs= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , "eliz@gnu.org" , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 at 12:25 PM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Christopher Dimech" , "Michael Heerdegen" > Cc: "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, "eliz@gnu.org" , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" > Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-rea= d repeats same entry twice consecutively > > > I suggest that the capability of prefilling the minibuffer be reintrod= uced > > for the new scheme as well. Because from what I see, the deprecated p= arts > > include a feature that will be automatically discarded under the new > > scheme. > > I missed that memo completely! What's the new scheme? The new scheme of using history which automatically discarded the capability of prefilling the minibuffer before cycling can start. > What is expected to be automatically discarded? Where > is the presentation/discussion of such a change? Is > it this bug thread? (Why would it be in a bug thread?) As INITIAL is obsolete, the capability of prefilling the minibuffer entry would be missing. > I hope we're not changing the longstanding arg list of > `completing-read' (except perhaps to add more args, > which might be debatable but excusable). It is a problem. We have been very happy adding more args for new features, without taking serious consideration the resulting confusion between old schemes and new schemes, resulting in numerous recommendations. The less recommendations on how to use a function the better things will be to work with. When deep changes happen, I prefer to keep the old as is, and make a new function for significant changes that affect the old functionality. It does not happen regularly that new features are accessed in ways that maintain clarity and avoids unnecessary complexity. > Let's please keep this function backward-compatible. > If you want something different, please add it as a > separate function. That's the whole point, and we should follow that route as an important strategy for maintainers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 00:35:13 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 04:35:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55167 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXwdE-0004nU-Rp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 00:35:13 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:45223) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXwdB-0004nB-7I for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 00:35:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1692592494; x=1693197294; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=Eg5IPzjwZBFNgCgOdhge58LYu7GA+EgLc/CoTzhRMqk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=S5WsbbmwqVy5u/fOE3Ltc7lN95icrmyt6QhGNUoLXCUAF+e3tVIWkHXf5pXpLc4T/rWaHL/ 6I/r/V+sxeXll4KRreh2gn/9i2snFdlV50Mus9RS/CKJboHrFeYzSldxFo3r30Q1CNgC9IMFW 5UM9QV9MxAwcZ8ZRuVuiesgIt7uGBVv8AKjHNHCgx488vQwXHy5IPtAcSzM62rOVoAOTSqxil pqRM73cX/WBZ9vqMrJSWRYRBX/k3MIEQjcVakyZ0c68arOLN0su65pfIaMW7elWnISBkJtlem 3Tf2oL3VPspg/bOxmYTF1tIaWNpyh/vS0CMloZM8tzDeQrFde7sA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [141.8.81.247] ([141.8.81.247]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs13.server.lan [172.19.170.181]) (via HTTP); Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:34:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:34:54 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <86lee6owj0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:l4C4upFg1OBe5Nu/5znPcCysEyMj+yeqmg8a+ZC1468lGhc2KseElX3rUz54q2U6Fmh4/ bmnbgrD6k9qzIhfioqlmV9fmQ5R/mu8W0/komcSVR149isx5FgraW2UmOvxkvnrwNsgF5fh6XadG lteSd5v4FXHIuIjbzfQ0JVTDHfvMhgDJETCr53mwh2CGQAKtKt+9lvEvglnYDzWYeISaGETcePZB 3pUdEa5jSCPvD7SlsfMh8tENkYOMD+HctFaDglLcpcXW7daDpFwNp3JY2willn2YvlwaP+rhdaw9 38= X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:xItEM9YN2b4=;5RqzNC6k0iKv6qGg6JMvKIw2E6x 0FQ9Co6kff6EMHKBttmghubcjmngnFccbwd2rovh/0a6ibjcODM7UK077kEKTQnajFhjmapO1 sE2R5b8l5oRXwK8FoYMvfcZ6xSIkaGq4AAB8Zwwn399lXVUX2s6RrlGixQtPNsq3DtMbvG0aE k72hhw54ayPQT4IFQRSOJBox5DV6vksgn5CQyJw62kdoJtOXvCBMmRRSjYSLdDmLlUweFJKyY rcAxWa+vYdYw4SpvzCLjh5ejEd7ZPxmuElf4a8gZu/u4QI1nLUeDuZPH1OfjlPP9n2K2aLlJs xmeUt6pZ2EVkFLcQpGqAyeEEJlAxSQXmxRV5Csk0K2FAtOyDCpB/Dj+a+ljiqwdREwXhTph62 Sdm8JP++VHARV6EcWq1u+3d9H73biJjffhdiGjZjk32Zer9MCEM0RUGyIUdrvDszxDxg/ShPN H9zFZuCpqLu/fjSGeIc7zvJ06prYeZ9tZ2yDch6Pdj4V+f9ZtPsdpgQvjhecQThmV+bkl+Nfs 86f0sGMOFiBWwdsQTCRjVF0FGZPyOziJXJUV9Uh2buaPVsBxNz4/H0LlrxWzAnZ4rQBoEj99L WUNKjN+OQUkaiNx25LBSp/7nZWdXKDOxjDHwWtxlyJKbi/yhBT4L23e9fp9Glf7cydq67SBdh WkiD1KnN0NX9zrYmq2fpKM4kF1jWh8bLcri3O+UGcdNI7CkVxmj8ZBx6ObWPSwXeg14XDfzwO iHwJjqDi4q8b6ecZPYGrp3cSCXZdatt5lps3RP6uaxELPmcAO+risLvOAJIT+WOKminAEdJoc weoWixU1lU3Fbvf4AySEROuw== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 at 12:23 PM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Juri Linkov" > Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> > Subject: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry = twice consecutively > > > > In case you're thinking, for your "obvious" use > > > cases, of a case where you have few completion > > > candidates, such as just "alpha", "beta", "gamma", > > > then let's not forget that you can already cycle > > > among those now, as completion candidates, without > > > having them added to the future history. That's > > > available since Stefan added candidate cycling, > > > AFAIK. > > > > Your answers are too short. Please elaborate > > what do you mean by "candidate cycling" and > > what keys do you press to cycle candidates? > > Sorry. First, I'm no expert on the cycling provided > by vanilla Emacs. I believe Stefan introduced it. > He can probably tell you more, and better. > > There are two different completion metadata entries, > `display-sort-function' and `cycle-sort-function'. > See (elisp) `Programmed Completion': > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Programmed-Com= pletion.html > > (I don't see why anyone would ever want those two to > have different values, but I don't think my ignorance > about that is very relevant here.) > > Dunno whether there is some key that, by _default_, > invokes one or the other of those functions. > > I use them in a two of my libraries, `sortie.el' > and `keysee.el', to use vanilla Emacs cycling > for cycling and display, together. > > With sortie.el, when you hit a key (`C-,' by > default) the candidates in *Completions* are > re-sorted, and so are the candidates you cycle > through (same sort order). So when you cycle to > a candidate, that's also the current candidate > in *Completions*. > > To turn on cycling you need to give > `completion-cycle-threshold' a non-nil value. > Then you can cycle among candidates using `TAB'. > > keysee.el uses key descriptions as candidates. > sortie.el uses sort orders (functions) as > candidates. keysee.el uses sortie.el to let you > change how its candidate key descriptions are > sorted. > > In the Commentary of sortie there's a simple > example of using the features it provides. > Here's most of that example: > > (defun my-completion-with-sort-cycling () > "Read and echo choice using completion with sort-order cycling." > (interactive) > (minibuffer-with-setup-hook #'sorti-bind-cycle-key > (let ((sorti-current-order 'order1) > (sorti-sort-function-chooser 'my-sort-fn-chooser) > (sorti-sort-orders-alist '((order1 . "alphabetical") > (order2 . "by length"))) > (sorti-sort-orders-ring (let ((rng (make-ring 4))) > (ring-insert rng 'order1) > (ring-insert rng 'order2) > rng))) > (message "RESULT: %S" > (completing-read "fff: " > (my-collection-fn > '("aa" "bb" "ab" "aaff" "c"))))))) > > (defun my-collection-fn (candidates) > "Collection function that provides metadata for sorting. > Sorting is per the current value of `my-sort-fn-chooser'." > (lambda (string pred action) > (if (eq action 'metadata) > (let ((order (my-sort-fn-chooser))) > `(metadata ,@(and order > `((display-sort-function . ,order) > (cycle-sort-function . ,order))))) > (complete-with-action action candidates string pred)))) > > (defun my-sort-fn-chooser () > "Return sort function for current value of `sorti-current-order'." > (if (eq 'order2 sorti-current-order) > 'my-sort-by-length > 'my-sort-alphabetically)) > > So for example, with both sortie.el and keysee.el > loaded, if you turn on mode `kc-mode' then > > * `S-TAB' shows currently available key bindings. > * `C-,' re-sorts them in a few different ways > (for both *Completions* display and cycling). > You cycle among the available sort orders, to > choose one, with `completing-read'. > * `TAB' cycles among the key bindings, to choose > one, with `completing-read'. > ___ > > As I say, I don't know how others make use of the > vanilla cycling feature. Maybe Emacs provides a > key for such cycling by default, but I doubt it. > > I think you have to define the cycling yourself, > by defining a function (such as `my-collection-fn' > above) that dynamically sorts the candidates to > produce a COLLECTION that's sorted as desired. > > But is it really needed - by default, i.e., in > general - to be able to cycle among all candidates > in COLLECTION? Certainly some libraries, such as > Icicles, offer that, but it's not as if it's so > essential that vanilla Emacs should provide it by > default, I think. It makes sense to give coders > ways to provide candidate cycling when they want > it for `completing-read'. > > My main point was that IF any such cycling of > COLLECTION entries is provided, it need not, and > should NOT, be part of the history (future or not). > Leave the history cycling to minibuffer input > HISTORY and to DEFAULTS. If you want cycling of > all candidates in COLLECTION then provide that as > a different kind of cycling (different key). I would agree with such evaluation. One should enter COLLECTION and then instruct the function how to use it. > > Then maybe this cycling could be used instead of 'M-n'. > > No, not in my opinion; not at all. > > `M-n' should be only for cycling forward in the > history, just as `M-p' should be for cycling > backward. Users should know that that's what's > being cycled, and that those things are NOT, in > general, candidates from COLLECTION. (Think lax > completion.) > > The "feature" of unequivocally adding COLLECTION > to the history mixes things that don't belong > together. It doesn't help users, IMO; and it can > confuse them, by mixing carrots with car parts. > > My call is to first-and-foremost give control to > (1) users interactively and (2) coders who call > `completing-read'. > > We already have a way for any coder to add all of > COLLECTION to the "future history": use it as, or > include it in, the value of argument DEFAULTS. > _End of story._ > > That gives coders 100% control over such addition. > It's not blindly imposed on them. And it's easy > to obtain when/if they want it. Easy peasy. They > already have COLLECTION - just pass it also as arg > DEFAULTS (or part of DEFAULTS). > > Arg DEFAULTS should, _alone_, determine/define the > "future history". You can do anything you want > with it, including get the current behavior that > gets imposed unilaterally. But you need not live > with that imposition. > > Do I want to argue this in emacs-devel? Not really. > I really don't have time for such things these days. > > But do I wish something were done to remove this > imposition and give control back to coders & users? > Absolutely. If this makes sense to you, go for it. > > And I think it's simple to do: (1) Stop filling > future history with COLLECTION, or at least provide > a simple means to stop that. (2) Point out to users > that IF they want to for some reason (the "many" use > cases Eli hinted at), they can simply include all of > COLLECTION as, or in, the future history, by just > passing it as (or as part of) the list arg DEFAULTS. > > What's more, they can sort it first, any way they > like. And they can filter it, if they don't want to > include _all_ of COLLECTION. The current "feature" > is brutal - it's a one-size-fits-none, IMO. It was > never needed (DEFAULT suffices), and it can't be > turned off. > > #2 is maybe not obvious, even though it has been > available since Day One. If it were really so > useful in "many" situations then I think we would > have seen "many" users pass COLLECTION also as > DEFAULTS (e.g. before Emacs 23). I seriously doubt > we'v seen many - maybe not even any. > > Yet someone thought it was a great idea to impose > that behavior always, on everyone - every call to > `completing-read' that uses an explicit COLLECTION. > Dunno who did that, and as Eli says, apparently it > was done in Emacs 23. I guess many of us just > never noticed it. > > BTW, what about a COLLECTION that's not explicit, > that's realized bit by bit with a function? That > doesn't work anyway for this "feature", I guess. > You need to manifest an explicit COLLECTION, in > order to add it to any history (history needs to > be manifest for the call to `completing-read'). > > (I guess if you know the candidate domain you can > use `all-completions' with a function COLLECTION > to get an explicit version, if you really need to > add it to the future history.) > > HTH. And BTW, thanks, Juri, for enhancing DEFAULT > to be able to be a list (long ago). > ___ > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/sortie.el > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/keysee.el > > > > > > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 01:23:44 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 05:23:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55220 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXxOB-0006Ei-VK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 01:23:44 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:32190) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXxO9-0006EW-9a for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 01:23:42 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0333521.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37KMStV0025257; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 05:23:37 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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2023 08:29:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#65348: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:29:52 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ULBumPxb9+KeOLHkHVyTUxsIBUM/uDYVBcvDzT45huJIgP81attsGAs8xrg5t0qJO6PZn j7TvRFfkwkBg0qKnZztXivOguO66OzyXxGSWu3D68Engu3hscePP23Ns9bc2QohgO9tRZ4MP6vmU Bsp/vqRfHLynA5wfMgebJ9QzCu6HT8nywrjuaXOt6uGfKjn1wH30R51hEZRdJjsgTb990wCECIxm 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lY4bwrhLV4c7OPiWL67CrvPmG5PY4y7LRD621GJL7lk9E= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , "eliz@gnu.org" , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 at 5:23 PM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: "Michael Heerdegen" , "eliz@gnu.org" , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "653= 48@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org> > Subject: bug#65348: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in complet= ing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively > > > > > I suggest that the capability of prefilling the minibuffer be > > > > reintroduced for the new scheme as well. Because from what > > > > I see, the deprecated parts include a feature that will be > > > > automatically discarded under the new scheme. > > > > > > I missed that memo completely! What's the new scheme? > > > > The new scheme of using history which automatically discarded > > the capability of prefilling the minibuffer before cycling can > > start. > > I don't understand. There's a proposal to NOT > SUPPORT INITIAL at all anymore? I definitely > oppose that. What is hoped to be _gained_, by > taking away this feature? It all depends whether INITIAL-INPUT would be deprecated. > > > What is expected to be automatically discarded? Where > > > is the presentation/discussion of such a change? Is > > > it this bug thread? (Why would it be in a bug thread?) > > > > As INITIAL is obsolete, the capability of prefilling the > > minibuffer entry would be missing. > > That's ridiculous. Why would anyone want to remove > that feature? Have we gone from (1) some deciding > that INITIAL isn't as good as DEFAULT (even though > they have different behaviors and thus different > uses) to (2) some deciding that INITIAL shouldn't > be supported at all? > > Was there some problem discovered with allowing > users to use INITIAL if/when they really want to? > I don't think so. This really has to be cleared out. > > > I hope we're not changing the longstanding arg list of > > > `completing-read' (except perhaps to add more args, > > > which might be debatable but excusable). > > > > It is a problem. We have been very happy adding more args for > > new features, without taking serious consideration the resulting > > confusion between old schemes and new schemes, resulting in numerous > > recommendations. The less recommendations on how to use a function > > the better things will be to work with. > > Sorry to say it, but that's just nonsense. If > Someone (TM) finds it too complicated to deal > with complex recommendations then don't recommend > anything about INITIAL or whatever. I agree > That's not a > reason to remove it - just because some people > might not ever use it. If your guidance seems to > be ending up to complicated then maybe it's a bit > misguided. Maybe start over and don't advise so > much. WHAT the CODE does is what matters, and > that's clear - clearer than any supposedly derived > description of what you should use when. The changes to completing-read needs clarification. > `completing-read' _is_ complex, and it _does_ have > many different use patterns. Should we remove > some of the different values we allow for argument > COMPLETIONS, because that would make describing > the function easier or simpler to understand? > > That way lies madness. If Someone wants a > simplified, dumbed-down `completing-read' then > they can create another function that does what > they want. But leave the original alone. There's > no need to go deprecating and removing features > that others put to what they consider to be good > use. I agree. > I don't know who's requesting such changes, > misguidedly thinking they're improving things, > so I write "Someone". I mean "they", whoever > they might be. > > > When deep changes happen, I prefer to keep the old as is, > > and make a new function for significant changes that affect > > the old functionality. > > Make a new function that _doesn't_ affect the > old functionality. That's the point. If > Someone wants a new/different behavior then > they can code it up and give it a name - a > new name. It shouldn't affect good old > `completing-read' at all. Absolutely right. > > It does not happen regularly that new features are accessed in ways th= at > > maintain clarity and avoids unnecessary complexity. > > And? Not sure I follow your point there. Serious focus on clarity is needed, rather than simply go on with changes. > > > Let's please keep this function backward-compatible. > > > If you want something different, please add it as a > > > separate function. > > > > That's the whole point, and we should follow that route > > as an important strategy for maintainers. > > I think maybe you're agreeing with me, or I with > you? I am agreeing. > Regardless of who's pushing it, if Someone wants > to get rid of INITIAL then I object. I objected > when the doc was changed to say it's ill-advised > etc. I concur with your objection. > I don't have a problem with calling out the > special case that's mentioned wrt placement of > point. I do object to the doc saying that that's > the ONLY case where anyone should ever use INITIAL. > > Let's please stop with the "shoulds" altogether, > unless they're backed up with clear reasons. > Otherwise that's just "I don't like" whatever - > beards or piano or watermelon or... > > And there never was any need/reason for such a > restriction/admonishment against INITIAL. It's > just overeager-beaver control syndrome, IMO. > There was never anything to warn users away from > or protect them from. Using INITIAL won't get > anyone in trouble. Whether it's the best tool > for the job depends on what the job is and what > your taste is. Using INITIAL does not cause problems. Contrarily it provides a clear way to prefill the minibuffer. Avoiding things like so (minibuffer-with-setup-hook (lambda () (insert "BBB")) (completing-read "Input: " (list "AAA" "BBB" "CCC"))) > Whether Someone thinks that stylistically it's > always bad to use INITIAL is, IMO, irrelevant. > Someone is just plain wrong. The devil, when it > comes to what's useful in any given case, is in > the details of the context of calling > `completing-read', and in the users of that code. > > Someone should be a little less presumptuous, and > just let it be. Circulez - il n'y a rien a voir! > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 03:21:59 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 07:21:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXzEd-0001FH-75 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 03:21:59 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:54907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXzEY-0001Ew-At for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 03:21:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1692602500; x=1693207300; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=Hmn4Pf1imcrLaoVAqeyMqyZxH+VnK5M02fKehMys0LE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=svKS0ENxdLwHvlbxHzp3+trwjjyhu7ochTV/slEGah+M2eYcvLCpkhcUZwn3gcw4Z29zJMR Qw6qW+2D0pO47h3hJst7g3fxlhir2x50X+w5vpekRvFiXRc9o+EeMQc30ykXzMpXu2w1XK/5D jDg283pci5dtN8FSQMURl0b1uq1T8JOk1Y1Dd0/hW17vuOqTyIvlsmGn3YLabxUh+dJZMbfeJ Ql5ktPXqlRqVB0+CuY5mroyiSq3q7ILo7NDnpRNoj4YhGilj0IKqkV1v5kCbo+vNwAz77KML7 9EFucXpq5MAHmAZvqEzPSwy78p2jr/wftuq5x8QYP1ZIuYHLVVQA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [141.8.81.247] ([141.8.81.247]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs13.server.lan [172.19.170.181]) (via HTTP); Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:21:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: "eliz@gnu.org" Subject: Re: RE: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:21:40 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:QgMnC5X5t6ZaZzeA75tIIUjG7/7We6ijoizsDgxRPSE+kDftVNSt/iBJ0MT0HRWnNh+B1 +hg8nUzVFvZAR0Z6YAeMZJRsHuJ//i6LHJBLC27lYQRzXhTXeJwc8qR8Oye12E+BWEX93eHsqlUZ fCOhTqBYYscFI/jmbBllslI4LIskTGTgqvAF9/6qzSRsaPk2JkvmqaYeFohwoaw9u9nI/YFuYFPt /8WxfXWUTa7En+ICfhyGXxyze6qGZ+NwmQvJVqbIxgYdmfQ8F6zK1gBZGGWrhz5S/VMJzWxlXp3V 1w= X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:u7Bq4/PLnPI=;/lKWghA3qSnJRTqZvGCQ6RiA6XQ 5cFtMjyavv65P9F0DYk5kwN2z1XTZdHGEnn/bZ6YFK2zUU1PgVN8J8ZP+cCob+G9SDX6PK+5k pxYQJ6t0qjYjWWdM/Dw4St+M535cIROr0eXugGgHaPsIOZAfThxLDONzloK0YSpm+4WbYqy2f kUrFEicZk2Yt/UbkbCDhxU4jG02p6Gztk3e76ZDp7SJ/z0XNLdnOTCHJC/z97qzG4aSh8iRLe zqYWjZr3HKqIoBKtkPrW2bRVjgF1T5xFMQwQKk+xUfoDxE45defYAU85Oj7YID9wrrlvZNbhS KrDjedG9GZOq/esYCqsPGbLOSSAYegpU4NRMKDq0Zeo773TGUPaAfZjdAzcgDW+qO6iHU3yHv FCmRE16FlpYUlVCfnx9cLusaKpXyPNLr0K/uc2QjtVQ8MkBe1KP6ZuAVS4KeX9L2sAvQPl2qA eQTA2XR0MkXva5kB2pw1cCY/Ar2zix38MPpN4GdLzKC4YB9QIc82F6qBqL7+fhpQVU4xr0ifG 3LXegSN3KZJ7af60uTPMn4PNf9npJ5wNCPRHEeicq6evvnmdKflk/EXD9AkjgggG8byHn6peW V/n+EZPDsAYy07s2uYS8MOu+WhOq4i5M+6dnn1XMCdu77XSaaVvHcDgmqOCLz+3wvD1yUsYJH eg/EyFoPVOXw3ucJ6jyOGNjPGfg1rc1wARoIPZZLsJ8ewJfOznd16MdbQzYiWH7oOzWnHW0qM RyGovBwWiAIQlLXDs5wBX/4ynpOxSMuzZmMY4UqGOrAkRAupj0zRGNYemWGIWiNv9Vkf5v4QN mwFHD7G75uMNmjCrW9gSuVPg== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli, there needs to be some clarification. Initially this was about INITIAL-INPUT, its possible deprecation in the doctring, and the COLLECTION-HISTORY debacle. What is the situation exactly ? Is the use of nil for INITIAL-INPUT consistent with the future plan about INITIAL-INPUT ? Having the ability to prefill the minibuffer with a collection entry is perfectly reasonable expectation for people to use. As for the COLLECTION-HISTORY thing, it is something that can be considere= d in a different titled discussion, if need be. > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 at 5:23 PM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: "Michael Heerdegen" , "65348@debbugs.gnu.o= rg" <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, "eliz@gnu.org" , "heimeborgia@p= rotonmail.com" > Subject: RE: RE: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-re= ad repeats same entry twice consecutively > > > > > I suggest that the capability of prefilling the minibuffer be > > > > reintroduced for the new scheme as well. Because from what > > > > I see, the deprecated parts include a feature that will be > > > > automatically discarded under the new scheme. > > > > > > I missed that memo completely! What's the new scheme? > > > > The new scheme of using history which automatically discarded > > the capability of prefilling the minibuffer before cycling can > > start. > > I don't understand. There's a proposal to NOT > SUPPORT INITIAL at all anymore? I definitely > oppose that. What is hoped to be _gained_, by > taking away this feature? > > > > What is expected to be automatically discarded? Where > > > is the presentation/discussion of such a change? Is > > > it this bug thread? (Why would it be in a bug thread?) > > > > As INITIAL is obsolete, the capability of prefilling the > > minibuffer entry would be missing. > > That's ridiculous. Why would anyone want to remove > that feature? Have we gone from (1) some deciding > that INITIAL isn't as good as DEFAULT (even though > they have different behaviors and thus different > uses) to (2) some deciding that INITIAL shouldn't > be supported at all? > > Was there some problem discovered with allowing > users to use INITIAL if/when they really want to? > I don't think so. > > > > I hope we're not changing the longstanding arg list of > > > `completing-read' (except perhaps to add more args, > > > which might be debatable but excusable). > > > > It is a problem. We have been very happy adding more args for > > new features, without taking serious consideration the resulting > > confusion between old schemes and new schemes, resulting in numerous > > recommendations. The less recommendations on how to use a function > > the better things will be to work with. > > Sorry to say it, but that's just nonsense. If > Someone (TM) finds it too complicated to deal > with complex recommendations then don't recommend > anything about INITIAL or whatever. That's not a > reason to remove it - just because some people > might not ever use it. If your guidance seems to > be ending up to complicated then maybe it's a bit > misguided. Maybe start over and don't advise so > much. WHAT the CODE does is what matters, and > that's clear - clearer than any supposedly derived > description of what you should use when. > > `completing-read' _is_ complex, and it _does_ have > many different use patterns. Should we remove > some of the different values we allow for argument > COMPLETIONS, because that would make describing > the function easier or simpler to understand? > > That way lies madness. If Someone wants a > simplified, dumbed-down `completing-read' then > they can create another function that does what > they want. But leave the original alone. There's > no need to go deprecating and removing features > that others put to what they consider to be good > use. > > I don't know who's requesting such changes, > misguidedly thinking they're improving things, > so I write "Someone". I mean "they", whoever > they might be. > > > When deep changes happen, I prefer to keep the old as is, > > and make a new function for significant changes that affect > > the old functionality. > > Make a new function that _doesn't_ affect the > old functionality. That's the point. If > Someone wants a new/different behavior then > they can code it up and give it a name - a > new name. It shouldn't affect good old > `completing-read' at all. > > > It does not happen regularly that new features are accessed in ways th= at > > maintain clarity and avoids unnecessary complexity. > > And? Not sure I follow your point there. > > > > Let's please keep this function backward-compatible. > > > If you want something different, please add it as a > > > separate function. > > > > That's the whole point, and we should follow that route > > as an important strategy for maintainers. > > I think maybe you're agreeing with me, or I with > you? > > Regardless of who's pushing it, if Someone wants > to get rid of INITIAL then I object. I objected > when the doc was changed to say it's ill-advised > etc. I don't have a problem with calling out the > special case that's mentioned wrt placement of > point. I do object to the doc saying that that's > the ONLY case where anyone should ever use INITIAL. > > Let's please stop with the "shoulds" altogether, > unless they're backed up with clear reasons. > Otherwise that's just "I don't like" whatever - > beards or piano or watermelon or... > > And there never was any need/reason for such a > restriction/admonishment against INITIAL. It's > just overeager-beaver control syndrome, IMO. > There was never anything to warn users away from > or protect them from. Using INITIAL won't get > anyone in trouble. Whether it's the best tool > for the job depends on what the job is and what > your taste is. > > Whether Someone thinks that stylistically it's > always bad to use INITIAL is, IMO, irrelevant. > Someone is just plain wrong. The devil, when it > comes to what's useful in any given case, is in > the details of the context of calling > `completing-read', and in the users of that code. > > Someone should be a little less presumptuous, and > just let it be. Circulez - il n'y a rien a voir! > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 07:40:12 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 11:40:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55712 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3GW-0007Xd-7O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 07:40:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3GT-0007XH-DT for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 07:40:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3GL-0007dM-8S; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 07:40:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=P9Z8wHGP8mFNCmJBdDT6yXoseAOBUHJDcQjbvK51nj0=; b=qVRbRnLrGITX Pzca31tI/iUoIB/gX2Eswfrj6h0U29t/pAZ+4HN2Ft2P7ZpEXnM4H6W9NLSKaiuCW5yY4MHfRnNIS vrCWzoAAP3c2UTENmAw/EACgkUE7XeOSD52/dLgBHsVudW/xWsxYI0UXxLR787LPbnBCCYvMY8NoH kB7DxMIYmd5soE1eEX701kZzfFO8q/oa8WZvM+YF2JRuI3KeRY5GwsAizBV5IgqAB+eHFJHn8uRcZ GhlMryQ5LDxUpzE3O4hvyN4U1ypugGREcTbtmNO8ur6Y/u6m8rpeFk6Fp3tyRWr2ipQyoWHnqqPC9 UYLHutuW6kLbPrJ8OqQMBg==; Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:40:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7j0vd26.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Christopher Dimech In-Reply-To: (message from Christopher Dimech on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:21:40 +0200) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Christopher Dimech > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" > <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" > , Drew Adams > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:21:40 +0200 > > Eli, there needs to be some clarification. I think the situation is clear, you (not necessarily you personally) are just splitting hair and desperately looking for problems where there are none. > What is the situation exactly ? Is the use of nil for INITIAL-INPUT > consistent with the future plan about INITIAL-INPUT ? Having the ability > to prefill the minibuffer with a collection entry is perfectly reasonable > expectation for people to use. There are no plans to remove INITIAL-INPUT, if that's what you are asking. We cannot possibly remove it, ever. The argument is not deprecated; its _use_ is "deprecated" (a.k.a. "discouraged"), that's all. There's no problem here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 08:07:25 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 12:07:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55756 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3gq-0008Na-IE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:07:24 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:55765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3gn-0008NL-0M for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:07:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1692619627; x=1693224427; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=oP5VVIWHJE2kuM3TjB1fVdHdK0PMgTVo+tjAJypnATU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=j5U759W57fQZl2XemPLAp/MoS/KB1YNURoV7nB6PJ/pxs4gIRcM2Uj1stirftpvoWiWNU1y 3uXNJRYY/dzgjcNBwioY3qv6llDWFPfBTyRVlnuLeobbPXgi7wtIISp3iuIpwNDSyjgtenaRX 8/2F0LEnwhC3rKKNNz2nW7xTcFNj/Qhs1E0U8VRzrr8JGoTEVZrBlzgyuFeQCb882KIVXCB78 60sB2JSUocI6yI1t6zFffaIPGYG1vjlAlN8QMVjMgbJVw4dSOXmBm1cy/yJT0Wbc5rnM2uIAM SQaPEM0/G2x3MJV9YNRtY6Si7rsNUsjyseRkCN+dpJugsJtdRGxw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [141.8.81.247] ([141.8.81.247]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs13.server.lan [172.19.170.181]) (via HTTP); Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:07:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:07:07 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <83o7j0vd26.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> <83o7j0vd26.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:y8QdVof3eIF8fLstSkC4AAVYZmjkZPtNkKMULCdCracCzBq7I+c3wJf6pjkvcyldZvL2L oGv2M0CbxmCEltWT1jc9Z8c11aTNCJ3QOHSsjc0H1hREHHkS2BWbQLVD+/c6CVVZ8e5xV4UfVmpt x/RZCSgTud3a2r1SIsb8jWnLPA1TwSYeCMUK4iAfRuzA/ByGqgrnGJmGKNr5LJ8uBDDmSN0YeqHL fJJ6IprHmagUa1K7eOQMVHC1Z3Ap+53VJuPZGx9+Aw2AyXmsTueJ6hdpgavuZtFDXHkBGFyuQpDM fI= X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:IGTX7ggn7YM=;15jX0jHWnYavjST3H4cJgpbjBog skg+ETW70YhDKNJEZv1dBeQIUCJzs/q2VmGNPyk2QJdkf6AM62PIMFJ+hE7i62TsQxDnqaxSW ahXw++y8EUSS70FweO9RCBX/wJB26SwxpMcpM71Rjhzlm/6jsVTQkBUIAZEL7lYX4+z0o007p DQKs+PZH6NJZmg9DwPRwCU13Q2YbwscL+vTUTB0MIA15xL3mmm0lwXNJDDNMin9aELU8HTSW5 Hc/FNTTGmCO5xfIu7GfdE19HXpM1tz8hvWRnfqotefAjRq5jT/uZxJpEB3rijPf9oimCezoqW Asb+xYhh5BcYEL6+FR8RKRdeeFvvSIvDSYIitjgCAdjLZUR9ppk4BpAowsKdRs9JZv6BLpu5q s8PydFAS2zqiEiPRthkthx3f9oeKyM+HLcCWjphcuqprqyfjbOilOYo/VjaWCTJspuiDkDVal uzZzDpyKoqZshVKqfSckIefd3baZTEV8phlKUx7Uz40vHGBaeyARFh9KhErzbmlKQysYeVzST FHrnjlSfaJ/WEabzlvFcm7BPF8ojLzXyez04r9AEgwSa+HAuU/9AfuFrYDonNlcqg9iJ6hofM rCrEAJIMsALwW0m0Kg4MgDYa9SLvAk5vmETTaRP9DJzUoiQSojpLbQKwieCFG+rFzd3B20SrR PfRQPZcws5BM2LYi+HG3+MI+PlwMRc7O1Pwqedip0+K/AgX5oYvNJN5HW5p1bTEdBVjX+0z5Q i31eX6QjkRVsHIQM3XKdsPw6GH+yKwgT83jYSACZP6bxH2cR8kezmooWNeflyrfQSWgRiJJwY ScDyKtcOyY8zG6GFPiV3bQmQ== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 at 11:40 PM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, heimeborgia@protonm= ail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com > Subject: Re: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read r= epeats same entry twice consecutively > > > From: Christopher Dimech > > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , "65348@debbugs.gnu.o= rg" > > <65348@debbugs.gnu.org>, "heimeborgia@protonmail.com" > > , Drew Adams > > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:21:40 +0200 > > > > Eli, there needs to be some clarification. > > I think the situation is clear, you (not necessarily you personally) > are just splitting hair and desperately looking for problems where > there are none. > > > What is the situation exactly ? Is the use of nil for INITIAL-INPUT > > consistent with the future plan about INITIAL-INPUT ? Having the abil= ity > > to prefill the minibuffer with a collection entry is perfectly reasona= ble > > expectation for people to use. > > There are no plans to remove INITIAL-INPUT, if that's what you are > asking. We cannot possibly remove it, ever. The argument is not > deprecated; its _use_ is "deprecated" (a.k.a. "discouraged"), that's > all. INITIAL-INPUT is basically meant for prefilling the minibuffer with an ent= ry. Do not see anything to encourage or discourage. Perhaps renaming it would= be more appropriate to describe what actually happens ? > There's no problem here. Then there is no problem. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 08:25:49 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 12:25:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3ye-00031I-Bf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:25:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3yb-000315-RT for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:25:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qY3yS-0001UO-2q; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:25:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Y5+Rd41YxRx6maUVw4jpIY4V6QhpQrupTPmhRkWY3m8=; b=OvPIuRkncGmV kbLnXVXyZMKGiKyqio1nfFYs3ci1E2XMGL5h83uST2B5vlb1vkloaSyA44kc/0MWkJ0Shwo/xa9Az kVsTpxLPcPmRvnflHp/aowa/ehhuMSZxbtdU6KU+t+ARqL8yprrMtfQfDZkBvt2SRFopRU2gYTz34 P2m/OcravyxEoo1op3lbNKpTGMew+YqADoiRTOWy6OTGVM4I6f7enXqa17i9vMEjZbhTE9iMqzQTs 6sC7xL/Uti/dV7UpRM8GqfwXdRLXphtCA8jDmCQ5jXTaZBV0Fwmoljh/U0hBJMfosufLNo6bgsMig mqzFKPiTkRpMUYBqE9/3og==; Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 15:25:46 +0300 Message-Id: <838ra4vayd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Christopher Dimech In-Reply-To: (message from Christopher Dimech on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:07:07 +0200) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> <87sf8es0m0.fsf@web.de> <83o7j0vd26.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Christopher Dimech > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, > heimeborgia@protonmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:07:07 +0200 > > > There are no plans to remove INITIAL-INPUT, if that's what you are > > asking. We cannot possibly remove it, ever. The argument is not > > deprecated; its _use_ is "deprecated" (a.k.a. "discouraged"), that's > > all. > > INITIAL-INPUT is basically meant for prefilling the minibuffer with an entry. Yes. > Do not see anything to encourage or discourage. The doc string and the manual explain this. > Perhaps renaming it would be more appropriate to describe what > actually happens ? I see no reason to rename, as the current name describes the purpose quite well. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 21 09:27:34 2023 Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Aug 2023 13:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY4wP-0007BI-Rx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:27:34 -0400 Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.132]:30111) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qY4wN-0007B4-Cm for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:27:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:27:21 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692624442; x=1692883642; bh=RHOTcARjsnEVyBA9ti9fuBBOYc4r/8OHoRvjBVwY7FY=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=q7tYsbGVIPJl7mDJDV/IG97UP4sQfiAYC39PdScpWGqpw1uTyBH5oWY9IrynKeZeB Uo0rMhbGYXJWY+bhUBrRQUH5WbdxXfNLnYAmHwL4R6A5xrHmFPzGiPK4WwHf81dh/a hNQz6mlJSBlc1a5pBem4SGjy+R/lt12lubxmF/fXHx+eaENdK30dS+PvxguYK/2ztD aNI92ekoSuYQ4oxy8EuIpZ/8DqP3d0lHgrsFMrjTW2rV4bo+Z+kIgBDHNfS1P26NwQ zuQEUF+msgEQRUAwgqK5Vq32ju/XxmuRjXUYrlh4IaXGWIsgpzIUGxU+Y+LbBQZVLd q4Wx2uOJOKquw== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Heime Subject: Re: [External] : bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <838ra4vayd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83o7j0vd26.fsf@gnu.org> <838ra4vayd.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65348 Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, Christopher Dimech , 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023 at 12:25 AM, Eli Zaretskii wro= te: > > From: Christopher Dimech dimech@gmx.com > > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, > > heimeborgia@protonmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com > > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:07:07 +0200 > >=20 > > > There are no plans to remove INITIAL-INPUT, if that's what you are > > > asking. We cannot possibly remove it, ever. The argument is not > > > deprecated; its use is "deprecated" (a.k.a. "discouraged"), that's > > > all. > >=20 > > INITIAL-INPUT is basically meant for prefilling the minibuffer with an = entry. >=20 >=20 > Yes. >=20 > > Do not see anything to encourage or discourage. >=20 >=20 > The doc string and the manual explain this. >=20 > > Perhaps renaming it would be more appropriate to describe what > > actually happens ? >=20 >=20 > I see no reason to rename, as the current name describes the purpose > quite well. Consequently, its _use_ should not be discouraged. It is for the person=20 calling the function to decide whether it is appropriate for their package. Is prefilling the minibuffer wrong as matter of principle ? Or just that= =20 on occasions it is not useful ? 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We cannot possibly remove it, ever. The argument is not > deprecated; its _use_ is "deprecated" (a.k.a. "discouraged"), that's > all. >=20 > There's no problem here. So no change. Good to hear! (Not as good as removing the stylistic stigma from INITIAL, but good enough). Thx. From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:38:10 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator