From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:35:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Stefan Monnier X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Xcc: Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.169191928220019 (code B ref -1); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:35:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 09:34:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58251 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7Ud-0005Ci-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:34:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:48110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vy-0002b0-6Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vs-0003cs-Jo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:40 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vp-0005Ii-TB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691913270; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xMlrSELhUnSZtSBvr5bvy9fXidXcqw5rcZK+mb2my5I=; b=Rhl2FlcmihkmMAxH8T218Q9wWChzt0ZwMmNfdIVUVWzopwOII/K+We92Gt1Q8IBod4+G/v rU8yggoTNa6HUzKDJYP3m5tqP3iFRswea7bHYOT0C79zuCC3KRGAdS3Ln8Qg1ldn/Q4YwY 2daM4cTqjtr/qdHwjlMs3NLIkUHi0qpDEgvt8ZCZYvaQKrZyCs+5lz5GljXEovsakoRJhx vqzEOQGOeAtQ3pHDTHTqkILFsOONkzfFR+3K2E3Ap4XYEr00+V5l/n8Yrtj5NEiOweYEJ5 TCt6PHu1ga2vVqtFSOeHaz6M/vMS9ze5cX04M+VLJgRCEf286Jck+C6kytuKDw== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 9d64ea99 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.76.87.244; envelope-from=stepnem@smrk.net; helo=mail.smrk.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:34:38 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) sh(1) reproduction recipe: --8<-- initdir=3D$(mktemp -d) echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el emacs --debug-init --init-dir=3D"$initdir" \ --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' rm -rf "$initdir" --8<-- In the emacs thus started, the value of `debug-ignored-errors' is "(my-error startup--witness)" instead of `my-error' added to the default ignored error symbol list. (It works as expected *without* --debug-init.) In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.17.8) of 2023-08-13 built on tipi Repository revision: 6d58007bb05b92d5bafb91631df8fef8d99e6722 ^ [that's just 08bf8533bb1d with some unrelated stuff on top, sorry about tha= t] Repository branch: use Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101008 System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --config-cache --without-x-toolkit' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY OLDXMENU PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_MESSAGES:=20 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dfcitx locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Help Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t isearch-fold-quotes-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util text-property-search time-date subr-x mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils cl-extra pp cl-print byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile debug backtrace find-func thingatpt help-fns radix-tree help-mode cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd touch-screen tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo xinput2 x multi-tty move-toolbar make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 55621 13813) (symbols 48 6384 0) (strings 32 18969 1832) (string-bytes 1 511550) (vectors 16 12190) (vector-slots 8 168978 11702) (floats 8 45 36) (intervals 56 405 0) (buffers 992 12)) --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169192020122137 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 09:50:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7jU-0005kz-KI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:50:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7jS-0005ke-Fm for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:49:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7jM-0000dD-NN; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:49:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=e2G29Sv6PFOwNNEf6/nHtSZSNVA1ye3Ar0natzaFy20=; b=LgV0v4Dcrf98TdM2qKtf oyT7EkMRsVKKI1upfsgxXdJsThXrYxR9XCueB77nn14y1BLmSvMMsU9v3rXcr9jPrJU6QtsW1kMHg pFrVvHCc+iYy8QA1H6lCb90Y+oVdnglX9aC+hAoIhZVTRQU0VSB7V+F8Rw8YjlecsSYxjIZy4tNOr FnHMYSIYHeGKOwwsp9WhmXZ7HK6X9pHcCVMUN8OODbdZITGJki2j52nnNQERbcz8OO5vccQpJs8d8 DABpb5n4BTkvuD4y1HoyYAH06HnJqw8bMDe1L2vcZcxDTd2vChz899NSxpiu9K17akZDf1xR3byz7 HZOiPe37+uBhXQ==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:49:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: Stefan Monnier > From: Štěpán Němec > > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:29 +0200 > > > sh(1) reproduction recipe: > > --8<-- > initdir=$(mktemp -d) > > echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el > emacs --debug-init --init-dir="$initdir" \ > --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' > > rm -rf "$initdir" > --8<-- > > In the emacs thus started, the value of `debug-ignored-errors' is > "(my-error startup--witness)" instead of `my-error' added to > the default ignored error symbol list. I believe this is a feature: when the user says --debug-init, they need to be shown all the errors raised during startup; hiding some of the errors was a misfeature in previous versions of Emacs, now fixed. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 10:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169192158824990 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 10:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 10:13:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV85r-0006Uz-JF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:13:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV85o-0006UK-UV for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:13:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV85j-00052x-FU; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:12:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=LmkZ2+Ax9hMmz8y6WgkxATikodY3Y/45G+xcOqgsDu4=; b=hnAjuAsvLWK2bwtvbLsu q/+Y52WRCl5g1Pdv2q607tVZmnapCHRlqSgqclxC8gEdriHD+DKakJ44T2drp4GwTHpT+sNNoymz9 zIczAjjYGFDSKwD9MEiG5kxC+BAVc3D0LoZwCNii53nzER2owniNtLWEvDc4RFrfLXgbTBAwg/ouh 8WAiuVWH7BsIy7JAoyE5nWGpPpEHfW8FZUz1Q5kYZd9VDgxrX8Lqa7gE9mzFa9VgdlsaZXaI7M4OB caGWLpQXHE0M/WGJV0+z1KnWf6NBWsLOSQZ9YvN8ERCCZrgFA1VnyIBp7we4jDC4275e3S3FBCK08 jAh8HqDyZd7WRQ==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:12:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkfbckt3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813120341+0200.42465-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:03:41 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813120341+0200.42465-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:03:41 +0200 > > On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:49:42 +0300 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > when the user says --debug-init, they need to be shown all the errors > > raised during startup; hiding some of the errors was a misfeature in > > previous versions of Emacs, now fixed. > > That would seem OK to me. The problem is that, as it is now, this > breaks normal Emacs usage of anyone who starts with --debug-init and > happens to modify `debug-ignored-errors' as part of their > initialization. You are not supposed to suppress errors during startup when you use the --debug-init switch. You are supposed to resolve the errors one by one, until no errors are left. (Resolving errors could include catching them and ignoring them, e.g., with the likes of ignore-errors.) That's what --debug-init is for, so leaving some errors suppressed in that case makes no sense. Moreover, most users don't even know that debug-ignored-errors exists and has a non-nil value by default, so the effect is to hide some errors during startup from those users -- and that is the anti-thesis of --debug-init. > Note that it might not even be user-intentional/explicit modification, > e.g., I noticed the problem because I load yasnippet from my init file, > and yasnippet adds a custom regexp to debug-ignored-errors; so now I end > up with bogus debug-ignored-errors value, which is further aggravated by > the fact that I normally run with debug-on-errors set, so, for example, > I now end up in the debugger whenever I press C-n at the end of buffer > (until I manually restore debug-ignored-errors to a sane value). The above works perfectly okay as long as --debug-init is not used, right? (If it doesn't, then this is not a problem with a recent change that is supposed to affect only --debug-init.) From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:45:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169192708513312 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:45:03 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 11:44:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV9WW-0003Sc-4J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 07:44:44 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:11034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7wq-0006Fu-2f for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:03:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691921022; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=FYtRLvqoy0Y6oaLJ4NaMh9z5NeY7lnO/E5Y1iUBCRD0=; b=lqG/W3e+vAWGmU9lcRat8ym1Cd8wjDoGWw2UT3qNc9fC5Z2EHvCfAojW5rkfmWWpThCjgz JEOqJ89r3TDN63ddl3A9sDbpDWDlYpwnpknGQULIdCmTng5vdrqA1BBFMYOYWtTZih9yfE ts1slI2nv8LPstmm74acaGJu76guTGb+g8A5ZWtFqkyH7Um3ZPegTcEiWvFXGu7LfoOzeR k2yZ6eal5uJwyR00N6Hv/dTOK+CDHpoYrZB4r10KK6u0xCjM8rrBfFBKXZhVkaEVoXYJR2 bDfORpy2NNajCJbvdpl1B0y9E81sgBgAaElEZdFYPBoHb7QTPHdjhWmMaqhgIQ== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id c0119bc1 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:03:41 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:03:41 +0200 Message-ID: <20230813120341+0200.42465-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 07:44:42 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:49:42 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: Stefan Monnier >> From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:29 +0200 >>=20 >>=20 >> sh(1) reproduction recipe: >>=20 >> --8<-- >> initdir=3D$(mktemp -d) >>=20 >> echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el >> emacs --debug-init --init-dir=3D"$initdir" \ >> --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' >>=20 >> rm -rf "$initdir" >> --8<-- >>=20 >> In the emacs thus started, the value of `debug-ignored-errors' is >> "(my-error startup--witness)" instead of `my-error' added to >> the default ignored error symbol list. > > I believe this is a feature: Here's hoping it isn't. > when the user says --debug-init, they need to be shown all the errors > raised during startup; hiding some of the errors was a misfeature in > previous versions of Emacs, now fixed. That would seem OK to me. The problem is that, as it is now, this breaks normal Emacs usage of anyone who starts with --debug-init and happens to modify `debug-ignored-errors' as part of their initialization. Note that it might not even be user-intentional/explicit modification, e.g., I noticed the problem because I load yasnippet from my init file, and yasnippet adds a custom regexp to debug-ignored-errors; so now I end up with bogus debug-ignored-errors value, which is further aggravated by the fact that I normally run with debug-on-errors set, so, for example, I now end up in the debugger whenever I press C-n at the end of buffer (until I manually restore debug-ignored-errors to a sane value). --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:45:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169192708513319 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:45:03 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 11:44:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58342 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV9WX-0003Sf-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 07:44:45 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:42191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV8HE-0006rR-2p for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:24:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691922285; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=47Tq/CNjKMUZYGXIeBjymm9SbRdXr5a87X+7rET8OFM=; b=RFwJeUVgW+f4k9cI9gT3B8KsgsHYvcZ1H2/fDwY2b3QYb5hsdo8LeNWX8sQE5pL2BK4KnV /lEGNPzlRPJ3WXXkxLmRWtZ1Nehv2vx0XUBl885JXqJH0QPljpmC62uc07hOlx98gWP31j we/aj3eYV45CHeXwZCY61d24FpGNPYzkDVhCX+57LPobQBbwZlEryVh915Yw2UyDMC3wnr W3+0lyKxAdElKGxuQu2cybMXiqnGuKRC2n/nl5v3frfGpWcUcKJrdnVg11kHf1AYqAR0k7 X/nPDSxSJta6LACgp14fZSOKhpZBnCp2ZcdatNEXnWXcsMZefOlN/KivoCEwNQ== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 692997fc (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:24:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83bkfbckt3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813120341+0200.42465-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkfbckt3.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:24:45 +0200 Message-ID: <20230813122445+0200.980157-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 07:44:42 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:12:56 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec >> Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca >> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:03:41 +0200 >>=20 >> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:49:42 +0300 >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>=20 >> > when the user says --debug-init, they need to be shown all the errors >> > raised during startup; hiding some of the errors was a misfeature in >> > previous versions of Emacs, now fixed. >>=20 >> That would seem OK to me. The problem is that, as it is now, this >> breaks normal Emacs usage of anyone who starts with --debug-init and >> happens to modify `debug-ignored-errors' as part of their >> initialization. > > You are not supposed to suppress errors during startup when you use > the --debug-init switch. You are supposed to resolve the errors one > by one, until no errors are left. (Resolving errors could include > catching them and ignoring them, e.g., with the likes of > ignore-errors.) That's what --debug-init is for, so leaving some > errors suppressed in that case makes no sense. Moreover, most users > don't even know that debug-ignored-errors exists and has a non-nil > value by default, so the effect is to hide some errors during startup > from those users -- and that is the anti-thesis of --debug-init. I fail to see how any of that pertains to the issue at hand. Just to be a bit more certain we understand each other: no errors occur during startup; I'm not talking about any kind of debugging scenario, or suppressing errors during startup. The bug I describe causes a perfectly cleanly started Emacs to end up with bogus debug-ignored-errors, possibly (even likely) without the user intentionally modifying any defaults, other than passing --debug-init to Emacs and loading (as part of initialization) a package that might add to debug-ignored-errors, both of which seem perfectly fine things to do to me (and had been working for years until the recent changes). >> Note that it might not even be user-intentional/explicit modification, >> e.g., I noticed the problem because I load yasnippet from my init file, >> and yasnippet adds a custom regexp to debug-ignored-errors; so now I end >> up with bogus debug-ignored-errors value, which is further aggravated by >> the fact that I normally run with debug-on-errors set, so, for example, >> I now end up in the debugger whenever I press C-n at the end of buffer >> (until I manually restore debug-ignored-errors to a sane value). > > The above works perfectly okay as long as --debug-init is not used, > right? (If it doesn't, then this is not a problem with a recent > change that is supposed to affect only --debug-init.) Yes, I stated so in my report. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169193030819281 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 12:38:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58378 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVAMW-00050v-0M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:38:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVAMT-00050g-F9 for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:38:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVAMN-0006jw-If; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:38:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=k6EL/YJthhxVMfskowvABsuLEfjqBzTDPnv77XTGmsM=; b=JWT6/1aKZak8cLJ7Nih3 0HM9tMVLHV+PFMJxGS0YZNsm2r0bQ4iHlUzjpxgjDrx+ragy91loHJ2AClwdWorZV+B3BC74z4cmT BCRwgBcnbJKLOI/HS3Gfs+GOBHZM0v7TauO2SOR9zkAOYNjTTJPQXZeY6WZaypLCqTBbkLHloMrsd iTzhfbY35kzPtRfPHCmQ9QlJuKCURZKX6qEo68LPgX/IYQWPpMs5eYQM3uEXqy8LDt/TOtTMRmmX6 ZV61w+Dd30ou+nozj8cSBCC9s/P8b4kdgWEpH46S2eDlKvcOo2xXZKQhXzgvp9oQJfHPLaLuM4xQn Vxhwol/xxsfqOg==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:38:17 +0300 Message-Id: <835y5jce2u.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813122445+0200.980157-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:24:45 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83cyzrclvt.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813120341+0200.42465-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkfbckt3.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813122445+0200.980157-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:24:45 +0200 > > I fail to see how any of that pertains to the issue at hand. Just to be > a bit more certain we understand each other: no errors occur during > startup; I'm not talking about any kind of debugging scenario, or > suppressing errors during startup. The bug I describe causes a > perfectly cleanly started Emacs to end up with bogus > debug-ignored-errors, possibly (even likely) without the user > intentionally modifying any defaults, other than passing --debug-init to > Emacs and loading (as part of initialization) a package that might add > to debug-ignored-errors, both of which seem perfectly fine things to do > to me (and had been working for years until the recent changes). If debug-ignored-errors isn't returned to its original value after Emacs starts, that's a bug that wasn't supposed to happen. However, if I start Emacs as $ emacs --debug-init and then evaluate debug-ignored-errors after it starts, I see the original value. So this part seems to work. It is only if I add some symbol to debug-ignored-errors in the init file that the problem happens. So I guess the convoluted logic in startup--load-user-init-file is missing something, Stefan? From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169194358622643 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 16:19:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVDof-0005t8-W2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:46 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:34658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVDod-0005sp-Ue for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:44 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 26CF5441CFC; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:38 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1691943572; bh=EjcVB1MDjZuHLKIVG7hUizJMgTTyStxLrhqaej3EfwE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=JoZTrFyCIe43+PYXBIO3GSMOp2GMYgmpIGzjQ8Xhh6gO4a3RrXC3xtNGS/05fCi6E ikDuuBhcTCZ8yF85h3Dt9V+vQb4uvMpopPcrQmNn33Kq0kIpmNvumllxbSJuXJAyLO pOWLNxFQIj3viMkjHYxoP3tzZ9TzILSTo4MLbSbclOFJHN5z4jg/ZYM+nFk9d7vrON Hrmw+rolfqD/6PkHrUZJszeOykX+cb7jnu6N4loQhkwolHd79OGpSZ6TxfrNE4EusD QPWY0iqEwJH6CoSkUhcl0gFcbL65c2N9mh6vmeHn1TiK/4of772/6pMRtMbp+N0Tu7 6LHdKYfQgk10Q== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7F2EA441CDA; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.228.154]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 560BA1203CD; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> ("=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?="'s message of "Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:29 +0200") Message-ID: References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:31 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.039 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > --8<-- > initdir=$(mktemp -d) > > echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el > emacs --debug-init --init-dir="$initdir" \ > --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' > > rm -rf "$initdir" > --8<-- > > In the emacs thus started, the value of `debug-ignored-errors' is > "(my-error startup--witness)" instead of `my-error' added to > the default ignored error symbol list. Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while `init.el` is executed, but it's not clear how to "revert" to "the value it would have if we had not changed it" once we're finished processing `init.el`. Maybe we should introduce a new `inhibit-debug-ignored-errors` which we could let-bind while loading `init.el` without having to modify `debug-ignored-errors` itself? Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, stepnem@smrk.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169194437624002 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 16:33:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 16:32:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVE1Q-0006F4-8Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:32:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVE1O-0006Es-AF for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:32:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVE1I-0001Uf-4l; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:32:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=q8vbfrASmIMgx33LMXxoZgoiiQCz5nTzjdMSVC3mFRI=; b=QOEplzqVvg/o FcFs1pjqsRcnqDNQmr385Sow7Psz8bc1SZIwEWO6xm0K7kt+pzCpTbs3HnZ/LzC21aSLed16g06aq vYi8KUKsTMjl0XHenlRrrwl3J/ukECQ7BMjESIhm6OmvmEnR9MzgkNhOGUG+ABeZS9jmSkCxK+LOs 9H3U6m2eeotQSRIYuBybXLzdbltXINnzcFSOzDphC5ZkqekeLO3dglsOyUbkRgpeujleNSfTLgdDF Goi2KVbWl2wJI+2gyVE34VWS9qW1ei8a3U+tarNUygO/0D2UdaimlKPD73G1TBqyJjU2eQ3tNin+2 cor/joPDlnWDnMttgtwagQ==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:32:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83wmxyc381.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:31 -0400 > From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: > `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while > `init.el` is executed, but it's not clear how to "revert" to "the value > it would have if we had not changed it" once we're finished processing > `init.el`. > > Maybe we should introduce a new `inhibit-debug-ignored-errors` which we > could let-bind while loading `init.el` without having to modify > `debug-ignored-errors` itself? We could document that modifying debug-ignored-errors only works reliably if done from after-init-hook. WDYT? From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii , 65267@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169194770829748 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 17:28:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60284 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVEt9-0007jk-ID for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:28:28 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]:19661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVEZt-0007F7-6b for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:08:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691946506; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=k1pshN3hBE6CTOQV4LZ7MPm9Z5XaW96gLT8tU3Dzclo=; b=KJqYIMqc65cS4Arostb68r21K1JuUE3KTvRO26eY5q+LTwNyFw8ADh/cDEFg8bS29JXRIH +P+RV4UOovW6v2x6VTLU2yKgYQYloqOLPJv7RanbbGyTLP8wOY1SoU67q5uX8q3CDHdv6g nOX6h605yc5edXI4O63CyVWOFeIx0BsCMaH0CBHw5/4rLyU4cU5GGME7NePFWYsgclv4Zg /gpBJR7s8Vj9whHILWSN5RoQ0mJLzjsD9l13KZRkjkuR5gL9M48NsehK6oq+ti23uXvxIv 3S6ezv/0wQ4AkVwkftZ5p3qdBm3lflGaxkg/EXDK46jwH+te4ye91/bkgnzk3w== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 1b30bc06 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:08:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier via's message of "Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:31 -0400, Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:32:46 +0300") References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:08:26 +0200 Message-ID: <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:28:26 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:31 -0400 Stefan Monnier via wrote: > Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: > `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while > `init.el` is executed, FWIW, I'm sure I'm missing something, but the above is far from obvious to me. Why does --debug-init need to muck with debug-ignored-errors at all? debug-ignored-errors usually/mostly contains errors unlikely to occur during startup, and even if they do occur during startup, why should Emacs not respect debug-ignored-errors and ignore them? (I also couldn't find this exception (i.e., --debug-init causing debug-ignored-errors to be ignored) documented anywhere, BTW.) > but it's not clear how to "revert" to "the value > it would have if we had not changed it" once we're finished processing > `init.el`. > > Maybe we should introduce a new `inhibit-debug-ignored-errors` which we > could let-bind while loading `init.el` without having to modify > `debug-ignored-errors` itself? If ignoring debug-ignored-errors during startup is really necessary, that sounds like a possibly cleaner way, indeed (albeit introducing yet another form to ignore another form ignoring errors...). On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:32:46 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > We could document that modifying debug-ignored-errors only works > reliably if done from after-init-hook. WDYT? Pushing the breakage downstream... would mean packages like yasnippet would have to adapt, among other things. Not the end of the world, I guess, but I still don't understand why the breakage (or "change in behavior", if you prefer) is necessary or desired. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169194918432365 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 17:53:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVFGx-0008Pw-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:53:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVFGv-0008PQ-C6 for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:53:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVFGo-0003SW-RS; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:52:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=WBZancWmztAHz0/AWA19CvUhIgiw968uZzkF1GAevmI=; b=Fanz1kOvcxLJpT0YjDGs 76jPEPVb/f5SvJTuTr/8XRUXPlfxz70IqhHen7Bye3gAPvVlFWoWv2qfqXyVNKcmn0VUs5cM6PijL C4O3zjx0PKLzJcLMPTjcuZ5J480NT4MTySETVHQcyh+se89sYixDp6Bjz6JGcRNAn7/PjZsqhEx7Y fUmoNYp7ietVYiT8DamjQN34B7fjLpYvSVAM6vsh0l5TeVh4uf0ehAGpeI7Bb5AkEhAmD1HihJ74J BzLuiUOLNLn+drYmXkmNibuJuVG+iT/BYMIt9YPG215m89XmCz6PxBaD+m9//FmOu8LjV88BoQh4g 4gEI2BE+5UyfBQ==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 20:52:53 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8dibzii.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:08:26 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:08:26 +0200 > > On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 12:19:31 -0400 > Stefan Monnier via wrote: > > > Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: > > `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while > > `init.el` is executed, > > FWIW, I'm sure I'm missing something, but the above is far from obvious > to me. Why does --debug-init need to muck with debug-ignored-errors at > all? debug-ignored-errors usually/mostly contains errors unlikely to > occur during startup, and even if they do occur during startup, why > should Emacs not respect debug-ignored-errors and ignore them? If debug-ignored-errors were by default nil, then this would have made sense. But that's not the case: we set debug-ignored-errors to a non-nil value by default, and that gets in the way of --debug-init. See bug#64163. How's that for user surprise? > (I also couldn't find this exception (i.e., --debug-init causing > debug-ignored-errors to be ignored) documented anywhere, BTW.) The value set by the init file was not supposed to be ignored, only our own self-imposed default was. So there was nothing to document: those are Emacs internals, and we tweak them to make --debug-init work as expected, which is to catch every error. > > We could document that modifying debug-ignored-errors only works > > reliably if done from after-init-hook. WDYT? > > Pushing the breakage downstream... would mean packages like yasnippet > would have to adapt, among other things. Why on earth does yasnippet modify the value of a user variable? > Not the end of the world, I guess, but I still don't understand why > the breakage (or "change in behavior", if you prefer) is necessary > or desired. See above: it was the result of fixing a bug. Another possibility, I guess, would be to set debug-ignored-errors to its current default only after loading the user init file, and do that in a way that _adds_ the ignored-by-default errors to the list it has after loading init files. Before loading the init files, the value could would be nil. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.16919535256996 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 19:05:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVGOy-0001om-Hq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:05:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVGOw-0001oY-9a for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:05:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVGOp-0002Xc-SA; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:05:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=eCHJTWn3MNjK3VXcpIZAaH0psuZZxhOz33fRbuCBAuE=; b=d4S8dNk5IaBLe05Bsh1J vcTIZuP66We8YEEVm3ntw9vEXrnA99aqmtNFh14UHSLJtnN2bMLoWoiDbDbTV3TcXfQ35zoTD8h0H mUQEt21BW1tsrvRU3ROQF0Op5Z61BCNF8uwhfo4jrDo8/3ksRJ53OZU/tmBD9gh7GfFqhNj3l6C/H tdvrPsnxrV993WoNVCrZqIyZpsV1Pgmo4aM70whiOMn1/e2tucY4varL1g3+Zj75mRMDnG1VwG9ud Bn7V2NxUf9nZ707brgodYbKCTcXiLItc2VB1PpTjMtu8AOgvHo2hl99G56KgQ2PGVvm/dq756RvBn O94GuhB8n8qMXg==; Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:05:13 +0300 Message-Id: <83sf8mbw5y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813203525+0200.956511-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 20:35:25 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8dibzii.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813203525+0200.956511-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 65267@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 20:35:25 +0200 > > > See bug#64163. How's that for user surprise? > > Well, I did read that report, but, rather than making me believe > --debug-init should ignore debug-ignored-errors, it made me wonder if > having `end-of-file' on debug-ignored-errors was a good idea to begin > with. It doesn't seem to fit the general user-error-like pattern of > the other members. Imagine that your init file has one of these errors and you want to debug them with --debug-init. Why wouldn't that be possible? IOW, the --debug-init option is meant to allow the users to find out _where_ in their init files the error which fails them happens, so it makes very little sense to mask some of those errors when the debugging mode is requested by the user. > > Why on earth does yasnippet modify the value of a user variable? > > I can't speak for yasnippet maintainers, but let's have a look at what > GNU Emacs says, in the comment above debug-ignored-errors in > bindings.el, line 879: > > ;; Packages should add to this list appropriately when they are > ;; loaded, rather than listing everything here. > > Sounds somewhat suggestive. It is easy to remove that comment. User options shouldn't be touched by packages. > Granted, one might interpret "packages" > above as internal-only, OTOH you call debug-ignored-errors a "user > variable" (and indeed it is accessible from the Custom machinery). > Maybe storing part of "Emacs internals" in a user variable isn't > optimal, either? By "Emacs internals" part I alluded to the fact that we temporarily tweak the value for the benefit of making --debug-init as useful as users expect. It's similar to the fact that some user options are evaluated more than once during startup, for some good reasons. > In any case, even if we leave packages out of the > equation, the recent change breaks anybody who peruses the user variable > during init, so blessing the new behavior would cause some pain for some > users (in addition to package maintainers). There's no argument that the value of debug-ignored-errors should be left after startup as users expect -- that it isn't so now is a bug that needs to be fixed one way or another. But the fact that using the --debug-init option temporarily resets debug-ignored-errors to nil while Emacs loads the init files is _not_ a bug, it's a feature intended to meet user expectations from this option. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Noam Postavsky Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169195606910912 (code B ref 65267); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 19:47:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60347 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVH40-0002pv-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:49 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:39050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVH3y-0002p8-O8 for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:47 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0FF85806F8; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1691956059; bh=MriL30Zo3flioFYRT5jUy73Wbl44WoWOusLqXSbbJ7I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=YppKIOgSqRNVpDsFX5pV7cYKZ1X3IJuMkiL1XtkuSy6F6gZnFnfk3+EO3bRRjwodF OTiUqAtOaW09zedRRVkOXJwygHjktuCC7tT7MbmdSCu7PXxFLbd/sEPVKo1EfPOSrW 8x3z0eVf9xleDTugmpgkNdgkZFG+c7FL8511GCPjjrXzBbkvM/+swGM/QP5duOTZtB h1e6wloi4jBZahOKgsy8bL0N84jGWy/GZ4z4dqmqG9d9tOJBwj7Lf3PUwJnfLJmBI5 HNm/1mxwNV9kVEgPXAjboDca+9Q2Qnk8CdzJEjON586pQT1Kl1yaUqYTlCfaC+kOsG 0GFxc/lmg+9Yg== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id CD07F805D6; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.228.154]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 992101202D0; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> ("=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?="'s message of "Sun, 13 Aug 2023 19:08:26 +0200") Message-ID: References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:33 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.077 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [ Added Noam, since we're mentioning a problem linked to yasnippet.el. ] >> Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: >> `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while >> `init.el` is executed, > > FWIW, I'm sure I'm missing something, but the above is far from obvious > to me. Why does --debug-init need to muck with debug-ignored-errors at > all? debug-ignored-errors usually/mostly contains errors unlikely to > occur during startup, "unlikely" doesn't mean they should be ignored: `debug-ignored-errors` is for errors which should not bring up a debugger if they occur in interactive use, but they're still errors, and if they occur during `init.el` they are definitely not ignored: they stop the processing of `init.el`. So when debugging init errors, we *should* bring up the debugger for them. >> Maybe we should introduce a new `inhibit-debug-ignored-errors` which we >> could let-bind while loading `init.el` without having to modify >> `debug-ignored-errors` itself? > > If ignoring debug-ignored-errors during startup is really necessary, > that sounds like a possibly cleaner way, indeed .. > (albeit introducing yet another form to ignore another form ignoring > errors...). Yes, that's what's making me hesitate. >> We could document that modifying debug-ignored-errors only works >> reliably if done from after-init-hook. WDYT? > > Pushing the breakage downstream... would mean packages like yasnippet > would have to adapt, among other things. Not the end of the world, I > guess, but I still don't understand why the breakage (or "change in > behavior", if you prefer) is necessary or desired. Hmm... thanks for pointing out that left-over thingy in `yasnippet.el` which should have been removed as part of: commit 175e0a3a102c22c0c99d8d00ecf8bc8539a4e593 Author: Jo=E3o T=E1vora Date: Mon Nov 17 11:27:30 2014 +0000 =20=20=20=20 Clean up previous change =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 * yasnippet.el: Update comment. (yas--protection-violation): Removed. (yas--on-protection-overlay-modification): Simplified. (yas--post-command-handler): No longer reference `yas--protection-violation' I pushed a commit to clean this up to the `scratch/yasnippet` branch of elpa.git. Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 02:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169197998630675 (code B ref 65267); Mon, 14 Aug 2023 02:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2023 02:26:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60505 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVNHl-0007yg-JX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:26:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVNHj-0007yQ-14 for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:26:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVNHc-0003xI-Vy; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:26:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=+eVK+geP4G6JKxFeSF3rkdibW3aWjdAeLdWG96Ezih4=; b=pCrMnM64vXiHvjidxP9q MShJFUg7oGxXzaMPPb6T/XHuG6cAk/K6yUmKsLDVa3Q2LeGWMigV2wCbuYw25rISil05a85CSOEQn hHtV3dfwozsTrc+jZp3qqcdFvd10VXNUX/XADtpGC18/N4UMnGwQ0EXJoNMtxvvWeDGMKZbNFTwD6 ozQAv8mfzvKDtzGQjTTAFy0SmX20Q5BCKvHmyiZkWKMUIS3D+fIc2WaCr6Bfel7Wx/jrC65zqYUL8 D4Qx1YW2/13fzl9ESgvTrpUSjrZqTZQhYQvxvGsKfYXbxMEzjmSZ5CiYj//KiEhnJDM7unPZeYLlT zTUUUzXGDZTfJw==; Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 05:26:15 +0300 Message-Id: <83r0o6bbqw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230813223458+0200.843367-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:34:58 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813223458+0200.843367-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Noam Postavsky > > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:34:58 +0200 > > So, yes, I agree that end-of-file (which indeed isn't unlikely to occur > during loading) now ending up in the debugger is an improvement. > > Checking git history, I also see that end-of-file has been in > debug-ignored-errors since forever, but I still can't rid myself of > doubts regarding its usefulness there. Would you have an explanation > for that, too? Other than it not fitting with the others (IMHO), its > absence there would likely save us all this (bug#64163 and the ensuing > mess). I find any of the other members of debug-ignored-errors being > triggered during startup much less likely. (And, OTOH, why would I want > to ignore end-of-file during interactive use with d-o-e set?) It is not ignored, it just doesn't enter the debugger. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169199572726145 (code B ref 65267); Mon, 14 Aug 2023 06:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2023 06:48:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVRNf-0006nc-GC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 02:48:47 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]:4690) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVRNd-0006n7-2h for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 02:48:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691995718; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=J3I6gTUuAp6Hn/lZRxxWGg8LsIrb13QZdK6m/R5ofuQ=; b=dLtIKtSWFjbkyvWFVR35V4ksREkC3gmevVapGSSXud4gYedxTtwVk1dqkdR8VhVmf8VqXu cy0gP6CAAnagVbscb7JjpB5O5WAUmToEzGaMqueVVOna6bkQbUJ/CKUgA2Tm7wpFL37LK3 dISkHcPOu7tJuyzksaDoa9i7duZAoOpeOi90C7ypLVKasWYEdAB0kmDMMlrG+lZHHQw2L/ SWYfUoVJpcOhgYe4Mwgvp/f8HSC9+5vlWVCftBjDGIQFqzSZTbOsR5zgAPDC5fkPLeR+z8 N0iIOyurlpyKeYltNmZYIrWpQqBCVaEP1X6V8crEsc/jsivA4iFlfNzWJreJwg== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id cfcd882f (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Mon, 14 Aug 2023 08:48:38 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83r0o6bbqw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813223458+0200.843367-stepnem@smrk.net> <83r0o6bbqw.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 08:48:38 +0200 Message-ID: <20230814084838+0200.989625-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 05:26:15 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Noam Postavsky >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 22:34:58 +0200 >>=20 >> So, yes, I agree that end-of-file (which indeed isn't unlikely to occur >> during loading) now ending up in the debugger is an improvement. >>=20 >> Checking git history, I also see that end-of-file has been in >> debug-ignored-errors since forever, but I still can't rid myself of >> doubts regarding its usefulness there. Would you have an explanation >> for that, too? Other than it not fitting with the others (IMHO), its >> absence there would likely save us all this (bug#64163 and the ensuing >> mess). I find any of the other members of debug-ignored-errors being >> triggered during startup much less likely. (And, OTOH, why would I want >> to ignore end-of-file during interactive use with d-o-e set?) > > It is not ignored, it just doesn't enter the debugger. That's what I meant, sorry for not being clearer. Unlike the other members of debug-ignored-errors, end-of-file doesn't strike me as an error likely to cause annoyance rather than provide useful backtrace data when running with debug-on-error set, so I don't understand why it's there by default. I'll remove it here and see how that goes. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, stepnem@smrk.net, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169226471232593 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 09:31:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWZM8-0008Td-AR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 05:31:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33020) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWZM5-0008TP-Pt for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 05:31:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWZLy-0002cq-Iu; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 05:31:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=W8XBYZ2KaUehA7ngGuTnWI2LUy909dTYIqvxAtbXN/Q=; b=IBLIW2Uwsqkw g4DhrOpdpA259dYFiH9OgEzGYTwGoKaCQAZ+cAfy/Xy0lV4hjzTmYGt43OwgHY4oZKRWB67yxZEno 1OLQkK+mVgb59X5C6GTftVvnDy7ZbeRhGHeBgsuUC7VTCW1ugf2Q23aQEs3Qa08Hd9WuSoBcN+6gW vWNLLBactlGwtamKPK9hs+yf4lvccq9zyJPSoIEaLlBPpICD7hZd6VBeMoqjjR/xhzWBfx80fyRrM U5Tbm7j/sxcERXn8gK4Fz1xbNjkbajhrL45zUvWmvqn50S5C01JU8bAMFCU1ZyibhI7JtuK6yhApw HAm3tnFEtVWm1lZU64M6ag==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:31:48 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:33 -0400) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, > Noam Postavsky > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:47:33 -0400 > > [ Added Noam, since we're mentioning a problem linked to yasnippet.el. ] > > >> Yeah, it's wrong, but I'm not sure how to fix it: > >> `--debug-init` needs to change the value of `debug-ignored-errors` while > >> `init.el` is executed, > > > > FWIW, I'm sure I'm missing something, but the above is far from obvious > > to me. Why does --debug-init need to muck with debug-ignored-errors at > > all? debug-ignored-errors usually/mostly contains errors unlikely to > > occur during startup, > > "unlikely" doesn't mean they should be ignored: `debug-ignored-errors` > is for errors which should not bring up a debugger if they occur in > interactive use, but they're still errors, and if they occur during > `init.el` they are definitely not ignored: they stop the processing of > `init.el`. So when debugging init errors, we *should* bring up the > debugger for them. > > >> Maybe we should introduce a new `inhibit-debug-ignored-errors` which we > >> could let-bind while loading `init.el` without having to modify > >> `debug-ignored-errors` itself? > > > > If ignoring debug-ignored-errors during startup is really necessary, > > that sounds like a possibly cleaner way, indeed > > .. > > > (albeit introducing yet another form to ignore another form ignoring > > errors...). > > Yes, that's what's making me hesitate. What about the minor changes below? They do seem to yield the expected results in the original recipe. The idea is to detect the situation where the init file _added_ to the value of debug-ignored-errors, and re-add the additions after loading the init file. diff --git a/lisp/startup.el b/lisp/startup.el index 43d6bf7..4d0e59b 100644 --- a/lisp/startup.el +++ b/lisp/startup.el @@ -1023,6 +1023,7 @@ startup--load-user-init-file ;; Use (startup--witness) instead of nil, so we can detect when the ;; init files set `debug-ignored-errors' to nil. (if init-file-debug '(startup--witness) debug-ignored-errors)) + (d-i-e-standard debug-ignored-errors) ;; The init file might contain byte-code with embedded NULs, ;; which can cause problems when read back, so disable nul ;; byte detection. (Bug#52554) @@ -1111,8 +1112,16 @@ startup--load-user-init-file ;; If we can tell that the init file altered debug-on-error, ;; arrange to preserve the value that it set up. - (or (eq debug-ignored-errors d-i-e-initial) - (setq d-i-e-from-init-file (list debug-ignored-errors))) + (unless (eq debug-ignored-errors d-i-e-initial) + (if (memq 'startup--witness debug-ignored-errors) + ;; The init file wants to add errors to the standard + ;; value, so we need to emulate that. + (setq d-i-e-from-init-file + (list (append d-i-e-standard + (remq 'startup--witness + debug-ignored-errors)))) + ;; The init file _replaces_ the standard value. + (setq d-i-e-from-init-file (list debug-ignored-errors)))) (or (eq debug-on-error debug-on-error-initial) (setq debug-on-error-should-be-set t debug-on-error-from-init-file debug-on-error))) From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, stepnem@smrk.net, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.16922769528808 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 12:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42931 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWcXY-0002Hz-4a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:52 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27468) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWcXT-0002Hj-NJ for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:51 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1B827440910; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:42 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1692276940; bh=S48F5rmsp+CgtLygubsxHkSnkRXpKSVYgQ+UtpJLpAQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=pQnNpQ3wxxO79a5KL8HO9hoqsCKizi+9agJP5nEuJvpM8pvIeljndmu4xRNPBqSn1 3WFULes/qimHcg5QMtDjzdkfkAvaE1I2+IuRbLLmgY2lmWNIee37DzOcFgeeyrqaNG YSAWdcXAdtfB76ajyCEvKtC0jsS2tFaaFJSAceaQrXctySnKGRV91h476CTJ31RKwd 9qp804svSIkw2DH9q2X98aV4/sd6oYqzBLBvF5yJYjayRfszVgZDZoGuW1yo4l4q1T AU18W1/eZ+jwvevu0EfVYwarVxPJywoe8LGYZFVT4rLPuZ7LGKaYqar2CWqcYEtQ0m Ab+/KDPwxu0tA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6F7A44408DB; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.228.154]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34C68120314; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:31:48 +0300") Message-ID: References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:38 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.022 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > What about the minor changes below? They do seem to yield the > expected results in the original recipe. The idea is to detect the > situation where the init file _added_ to the value of > debug-ignored-errors, and re-add the additions after loading the init > file. No objection from me (it's not great, but I don't think there's a great solution). Stefan From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: stepnem@smrk.net, Stefan Monnier Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169227891711836 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 13:28:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWd3F-00034q-EZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:28:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWd3D-00034Z-9P for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:28:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWd37-0004NL-6T; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 09:28:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=5gF3+eenFg/rwCRKHd5spyq4pBkSUCvOh5tRXH6jdAc=; b=F5hyIiQKp9Pa1waHBX0d L4FMCCqECIrxfF4umS6MUxYwiP5m42TuK/TDQn/UF7xSWsl8wTAymG8YfQBnxH6tcJ4LKtSZWK9XG Ox1Iv9X2oIb2Wsnr7PV4iWoE9L5Rh2rj3daOIw3J5T1L/BppLBLvDawqCzSp6K5Wcw+3REdIAo9O/ tJXiefYB6nzhd6OCtWiOpOLTU6bloQocYi8WmoIBXeKR5rLw8sDRbArRSDWQXUkjchat8kEHwBrLg PPAFIMhMLmYcw+8H4O/dYGOXBk0Mhbh643J2HGrI6u+KpFXCxk5rwOh+HpFbUi175wsqEO/zgIvU0 eLKOHphYjz1skg==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:28:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:38 -0400) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: stepnem@smrk.net, 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:38 -0400 > > > What about the minor changes below? They do seem to yield the > > expected results in the original recipe. The idea is to detect the > > situation where the init file _added_ to the value of > > debug-ignored-errors, and re-add the additions after loading the init > > file. > > No objection from me (it's not great, but I don't think there's a great > solution). Thanks. Štěpán, would you mind testing the patch? If it works for you, I will install it. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169228179229888 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 14:16:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45283 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWdnb-0007lz-Na for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:16:32 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]:4673) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWdnX-0007lh-DP for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:16:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692281780; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1zSwIv+vUt/W0Pu+tuCoFg2bZiUfWD4qC3CZA7nW4cw=; b=RKRWQ+CC9pyLqDKEbCVUw00BtkrMm6N9MnVlEh25zP/GF8PTj3LrOz+Cl844Jdnytuw1VE v3qgIoMR7ZVIyUQASrDkrsTFgBQ3ODSa1cLWKTP54UOB49TkvA45okE1yS9aGgbqSqMWY0 TrI/pcpw9JL/ye1aBjS9pcYIcb3jAsV/mw3My5fD8rIBx53gGmePA7LdhEUm0x2+is7V6E BCY5R3srEfYPuMrcIwqUekWbB35M7av/tyP4w4m0RTVyBL6vIn75QJi9H6F921UXCR8utF F7d5OUkxR+kT6U5+KWcTcToBIDETGv+THropFV1JRv2OlWnGDHiw3QaKwM59vQ== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id a5a5b220 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:16:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:16:19 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:28:31 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: stepnem@smrk.net, 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforg= e.net >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:38 -0400 >>=20 >> > What about the minor changes below? They do seem to yield the >> > expected results in the original recipe. The idea is to detect the >> > situation where the init file _added_ to the value of >> > debug-ignored-errors, and re-add the additions after loading the init >> > file. >>=20 >> No objection from me (it's not great, but I don't think there's a great >> solution). > > Thanks. > > =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n, would you mind testing the patch? If it works for= you, I will > install it. Your patch preserves additions (although it moves them to the end of the list, but that shouldn't matter for debug-ignored-errors), but doesn't preserve removals, e.g., if we change the reproducer from my original report to --8<-- initdir=3D$(mktemp -d) #echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el echo "(setq debug-ignored-errors (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors))"= >"$initdir"/init.el emacs --debug-init --init-dir=3D"$initdir" \ --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' rm -rf "$initdir" --8<-- we end up with debug-ignored-errors containing `end-of-file' (together with the rest). Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of debug-ignored-errors? --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169228266431397 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:32:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 14:31:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45300 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe1g-0008AL-1x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:31:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53720) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe1b-00089g-2d for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:31:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe1U-0007zB-LZ; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:30:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Rfxl4ksctHJVS/MKi+oP18YGzUPuOBO2LXZHkN4NwPg=; b=mUUAJkYQpcVYSIt0ap5w K4Bq36PvED7+SisuUha/XtiY0tcwgP2ardZ9UGUcJwnwcxO249QYP0hhH4GZ3Tc4P7uXJY9Kx1VGh GUPkNaJtveBag+ECkBMG91MoJawZCtdwT6K1C+6XjPaLTFy6o7dsLxiK78TzCG4lGFq/CREzwF3C3 adOmFzs/hqC7mhEbCyJjLsyZLBMlYUuKRE2G8UMYROTGI+eauQLbCbkHw5xTg1YkhyvfKO99dxFJC 6e4VxdFk0IiJah2Ry2dVyZ24t8zlSfIOtlqiLuiy5V+kTMSj4JFPtiYyKQ9sdEoLYriOqF9R/yrdq 2tgfD6Wm9WDgGw==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:16:19 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:16:19 +0200 > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:28:31 +0300 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Stefan Monnier > >> Cc: stepnem@smrk.net, 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:55:38 -0400 > >> > >> > What about the minor changes below? They do seem to yield the > >> > expected results in the original recipe. The idea is to detect the > >> > situation where the init file _added_ to the value of > >> > debug-ignored-errors, and re-add the additions after loading the init > >> > file. > >> > >> No objection from me (it's not great, but I don't think there's a great > >> solution). > > > > Thanks. > > > > Štěpán, would you mind testing the patch? If it works for you, I will > > install it. > > Your patch preserves additions (although it moves them to the end of the > list, but that shouldn't matter for debug-ignored-errors), but doesn't > preserve removals If someone want to remove from the list, and use --debug-init on top of that, they will need to replace the value instead. If that's the only downside of the patch I proposed, I think people will be able to live with it. > Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 > state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of > debug-ignored-errors? Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time (I see it in Emacs 20). From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: stepnem@smrk.net Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169228297231923 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:37:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 14:36:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe6e-0008Io-Er for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:36:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe6b-0008IY-7S for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:36:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWe6U-0002X2-Cf; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:36:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ig0H5h/hUM9BNx9zyAxXP2RjdqRW/8Y5KuNdTxKkohA=; b=kwtsojMWlR00 0vQ5SRcyh+oYknj4dL5BT0vlG/UDug12dNshmYi5sLsNPylOfr30dDkcB5O35t7BmECRkh5dipuIc qKRA8gNqzZ6Ij21t19WJ3wa3/zF0tgkEUEN36pw9n9F2OeLWIihJujOsax5c3xRbd9UCLErALHO/f oHr6wYe/NiNI0OpdlfH6SdqroTiGR95UbX4KbRTNDyHSJFOA1+BquQAnQVOr1cp4n2WIn26rqKI+Q jduWDo8Zv00Dxls6p9MQWEeIbnHhDPUUOGk4d4b/HAuARDc/6/C3tF7gBu1crW75dEE9BFXLGyNIk Rh/wkVX9h23eWviKszIl2A==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:36:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5up68iu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > > Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 > > state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of > > debug-ignored-errors? > > Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time > (I see it in Emacs 20). And, of course, end-of-file is just one of the errors in the list; bug#64163 could have been equally reported with any of those other ones, and the solution is the same. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.16922875917549 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 15:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 15:53:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45382 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfJ8-0001xh-Sk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 11:53:11 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:40915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfJ4-0001x7-RS for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 11:53:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692287580; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7NGrhZxn4S4BfsyHCRrdOBs3JWd0uxc6WHYyqjhvjhM=; b=PwFHQhJ7gDyND1o1mGSRIJSLuzXMT9nuqnQ9TIS5ewvlsF56ociU8f8rceY4+LgijENVao THpuVVBTTC1HQm0m5YwZ1PJTcU25gbjTPdGVsUr7NrqMnRo73dh7+LzSxAG2A9sTrgSxfp 0V4zf1wyKYVSb3YkJAd6dn73dFg51r21SIQXJ3uRMuqwLE7PoDVDJ3Mzu1PIcSniJxl58I r9RiOi9+g7HC7jUlJcQTWV9cz8ENCTucSFIl8SWjjm+QfFIlUXFZSlL0jIYzVCJuyDXBoL GsnsxgvW0ZCrbaSBpAj6S+xQ+xhc+4PrsilsJgCghjzhUYQnMihW1H8aX0S/pQ== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 810882bc (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:53:00 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300, Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:36:09 +0300") References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:52:59 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec >> Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:16:19 +0200 >>=20 >> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:28:31 +0300 >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>=20 >> Your patch preserves additions (although it moves them to the end of the >> list, but that shouldn't matter for debug-ignored-errors), but doesn't >> preserve removals > > If someone want to remove from the list, and use --debug-init on top > of that, they will need to replace the value instead. If that's the > only downside of the patch I proposed, I think people will be able to > live with it. As you said, debug-ignored-errors is a user variable. So some people are likely to change it, and some (most?) of those people will do that from their init file. I don't see how adding vs removing is any different in that respect. As for --debug-init, why would anyone (who knows about that option and cares about their setup) routinely start Emacs *without* it? >> Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 >> state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of >> debug-ignored-errors? > > Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time > (I see it in Emacs 20). I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. I agree backward compatibility/preserving behavior is important, but I hope you'll agree that some behavior changes are more serious/visible/disruptive/whatever than others, and I'd argue that in that sense, messing with user option modification during startup is a worse change than removing end-of-file from debug-ignored-errors. So if we're again back to blessing the breakage, I suggest it at least be documented. On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:36:09 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, >> npostavs@users.sourceforge.net >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:31:00 +0300 >> From: Eli Zaretskii >>=20 >> > Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 >> > state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of >> > debug-ignored-errors? >>=20 >> Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time >> (I see it in Emacs 20). > > And, of course, end-of-file is just one of the errors in the list; > bug#64163 could have been equally reported with any of those other > ones, and the solution is the same. "Equally" I don't think. If it took many (tens of?) years for anybody to be bothered by the end-of-file case (bug#64163), which IME indeed occurs somewhat regularly during startup (missing closing paren), I find the same happening with any of the other members of debug-ignored-errors exceedingly unlikely. I agree with Stefan that no good solution has so far emerged. The advantage of my suggestion would be that it only changes debug-ignored-errors in a way that makes sense anyway (in absence of any arguments to the contrary), preventing bug#64163 as a byproduct, rather than adding to convoluted code nobody involved seems to really understand in a way that nobody involved seems to really understand or expect. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169228835718849 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 16:05:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45399 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfVV-0004tx-AP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:05:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfVR-0004tb-PH for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:05:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfVL-0005GE-Ie; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:05:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=OcFvwjb2zMASrwfXeGbmlsk1yUKBh0sssnMr3HY+4xI=; b=d1FBM79Bpk5t9Sjz2+k8 7YpO2I6Lqq4SDPq1X5Vi48i9c1eSyf2mzUAM45qnxc1+lgB13s/rFLuplbysnaV8IRhp+BER3RzcA qosqr/p66t1oFHWXgHzCffp8qoSJgVuhdbDDVuy/hHNFqyemDfrxfI8DlSactIctreItDHjinygpr UT7u6D/Vk4azyhDAbAl/KhLhM1Vx8oddAVPPkA3EkqDYPCven93nrj68um/1X7b5OAANavt4nF1pC jf36SzJCiObCCH8WWePuoy9juYHQapbpDq7EZ+Qpt3MCGkBCd4BBsYB/+ZRInyyeXnG9czfDovNzp Of7ahI5WXerbtw==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 19:05:55 +0300 Message-Id: <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:52:59 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:52:59 +0200 > > As you said, debug-ignored-errors is a user variable. So some people > are likely to change it, and some (most?) of those people will do that > from their init file. I don't see how adding vs removing is any > different in that respect. I agree, I'm just saying that removing from the list, and using --debug-init at the same time is beyond obscure. > As for --debug-init, why would anyone (who knows about that option and > cares about their setup) routinely start Emacs *without* it? I would actually ask the opposite: why would someone run with that option except when they need to debug their init files? It's a debugging option. I'm quite sure that if you poll Emacs users, you will find that the vast majority doesn't routinely use that option. Exactly like most of the users don't routinely run Emacs under GDB. > >> Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 > >> state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of > >> debug-ignored-errors? > > > > Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time > > (I see it in Emacs 20). > > I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having > end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. It no longer matters, since that ship has sailed in Sep 1996, if not earlier. > I agree backward compatibility/preserving behavior is important, but I > hope you'll agree that some behavior changes are more > serious/visible/disruptive/whatever than others, and I'd argue that in > that sense, messing with user option modification during startup is a > worse change than removing end-of-file from debug-ignored-errors. If we "mess" with the options and restore them back to their user-defined value at the end of startup, the "mess" is not that awful a felony. During startup, Emacs "messes" with some options anyway, e.g., those that need to be re-evaluated more than once, to support the user changing the environment via init file settings. So it isn't like there's no precedent for "messing" with user options. And let me remind you that this bug report was triggered by "messing" with user options by a certain package. > So if we're again back to blessing the breakage, I suggest it at least > be documented. I don't think I have a clear idea of what aspects of this you think we need to document. Please elaborate. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169228981021179 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 16:30:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45418 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfsv-0005VW-Tb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:30:10 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]:41517) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWfsr-0005UP-IQ for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:30:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692289799; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=e1sFrRcLdN/KWAdEGnUPYw075S9Cn8Xfo08W4iR/ksI=; b=oQfoL7LggpPMmbCgCF87Lm4SyMDhq+CnpdU9w3gItcIQCR2l4/jlAwnekn7VnZ9cWkk16v WOZvo/pL+CuI7RGNvvN/itEj08lpkgKVJv736eAoCdpQ1lbdN+setG9B3bGmrW97/3ZV+3 5NLnlE0NctpTKUJi7fdy1QQ9Pitcf96IfzLEXRpChzyp1YdUzksCrxboP3KGQPa7RDEQ8R qsnLAmEGjzivvB4wDglr6NOaTaFYYIqAgvvVuRDAUKNdQ/8+87XDkVbSf8I9jip2eOhkMz bgOBBuq95JC4WDvEJeUFnCP/3zpv1CNSBl50F2idxbcuFb/2v1vTXqDnBBm3BA== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id ab811cf7 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:29:59 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:29:58 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817182958+0200.925365-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 19:05:55 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec >> Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, >> npostavs@users.sourceforge.net >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:52:59 +0200 >>=20 >> As you said, debug-ignored-errors is a user variable. So some people >> are likely to change it, and some (most?) of those people will do that >> from their init file. I don't see how adding vs removing is any >> different in that respect. > > I agree, I'm just saying that removing from the list, and using > --debug-init at the same time is beyond obscure. Why? >> As for --debug-init, why would anyone (who knows about that option and >> cares about their setup) routinely start Emacs *without* it? > > I would actually ask the opposite: why would someone run with that > option except when they need to debug their init files? It's a > debugging option. Because in the no-errors case it costs the user virtually nothing, and in case of errors you don't have to restart with --debug-init: you have the backtrace right there. > I'm quite sure that if you poll Emacs users, you will find that the > vast majority doesn't routinely use that option. I don't share your confidence, one way or the other; you might well be right (that's why I added the parenthetical). > Exactly like most of the users don't routinely run Emacs under GDB. Running under GDB is significantly more complex (esp. for a casual user) than adding a CLI option, so I don't think that is a good comparison. >> >> Have you considered my humble suggestion of reverting to pre-bug#64163 >> >> state and simply removing end-of-file from the default value of >> >> debug-ignored-errors? >> > >> > Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time >> > (I see it in Emacs 20). >>=20 >> I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having >> end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. > > It no longer matters, since that ship has sailed in Sep 1996, if not > earlier. Even GNU Emacs is amenable to such reassessments. Options and/or their defaults change every release, I don't see how debug-ignored-errors is any different (if anything, this change would seem relatively minor). >> I agree backward compatibility/preserving behavior is important, but I >> hope you'll agree that some behavior changes are more >> serious/visible/disruptive/whatever than others, and I'd argue that in >> that sense, messing with user option modification during startup is a >> worse change than removing end-of-file from debug-ignored-errors. > > If we "mess" with the options and restore them back to their > user-defined value at the end of startup, the "mess" is not that awful > a felony. During startup, Emacs "messes" with some options anyway, > e.g., those that need to be re-evaluated more than once, to support > the user changing the environment via init file settings. So it isn't > like there's no precedent for "messing" with user options. > > And let me remind you that this bug report was triggered by "messing" > with user options by a certain package. > >> So if we're again back to blessing the breakage, I suggest it at least >> be documented. > > I don't think I have a clear idea of what aspects of this you think we > need to document. Please elaborate. I thought it was obvious, but I see I should have been more precise again, I apologize and reformulate: the "mess" here isn't with the option per se, but with its customization (even though the end result is, of course, a wrong (not user-intended) value of the option per se). Your patch doesn't improve that situation: if a user changes debug-ignored-errors during initialization, they might end up (silently!) with an unexpected value. Don't you agree that makes debug-ignored-errors special enough to need documenting? --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229250827531 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 17:15:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45491 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWgaR-00079z-PF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:15:08 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:42282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWgaP-00079l-6V for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:15:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1692292503; bh=tvr6UeWQnuPHBjrPbZY4yTsPOhBUEYzAMsPf7sQcxys=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=V3jSmVpOik1kf54TY2GfFmlLUpBbi8kU1WLUu/QvRzMNd60LsnhdPLtrQkLT7pFgm 7fRoJdT9v6U9wBYgnnQzlvKJ5iOu9w6y8BJEdnbvxPkvtRFlb93DQTYdBR68Ip7gIx zKOMkQBSH4fC6ormblSxysAGw/o4O69Azzw7XXmf++yC0qf9hqhalj/+qLVcOFVCIl 7NleZQpz0ROAPPtgSTnNiM2bzeKuY0YMe+E8QwELwokHYh0NiIodgDQCQPjep5sOok 1bKOxxpiC6li5TW//RBvyp24rfF5WTfoRQfFgNxdLMYsavViQfoVJokEc0emphIV4l 0qpl9PxUvBHcg== Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:15:03 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> Message-ID: <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time >> (I see it in Emacs 20). > > I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having > end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. > See NEWS.19: ** The variable 'debug-ignored-errors' specifies certain kinds of errors that should not enter the debugger. Its value is a list of error condition symbols and/or regular expressions. If the error has any of the condition symbols listed, or if any of the regular expressions matches the error message, then that error does not enter the debugger, regardless of the value of debug-on-error. This variable is initialized to match certain common but uninteresting errors that happen often during editing. To see what this means in practice, try: emacs -Q M-: (setq debug-ignored-errors nil) RET M-x toggle-debug-on-error RET " M-x eval-buffer RET From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Gregory Heytings Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229326528802 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 17:27:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45504 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWgmf-0007US-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:27:45 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]:14678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWgmb-0007UA-9y for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:27:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692293254; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7FBdqXgno+80QcUArOSShcsCTaQaxzcCnMVNS9zFLck=; b=SUwBahACQpeJw5NODxwE4UY0jpBwkX5cwnk6uxdIfJykkSHxsATwaTKMwjvLQFy35VosgR xLQZpzzjYAIX96EjJFzBjYg17P3agBZSDZH9B17ekvcX3EZZcY5AAAmk8uggg9CAIFvAtr x8gXzgTjujEjYG/FCeDFWmbfXui/oV0L0G/iBIONdojGEGTnp1YxWUKDd0OcFPQADtm9BE Mi5Z1fJqRwlvXxmkdfeG3EollVQAzxgdtAcLApthFri03b68n6wwBWv1uT+iXToro0dIXR j3TW/5gauy/GvwzG7YeYm5lJna9FSL9x6x1imAbhDKl/n8Rabm+bMhbLevdDeQ== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id a44286b2 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 19:27:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 19:27:33 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:15:03 +0000 Gregory Heytings wrote: >>> Yes. This cannot fly, since we had end-of-file there for a long time=20 >>> (I see it in Emacs 20). >> >> I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having=20 >> end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. >> > > See NEWS.19: > > ** The variable 'debug-ignored-errors' specifies certain kinds of errors= =20 > that should not enter the debugger. Its value is a list of error=20 > condition symbols and/or regular expressions. If the error has any of th= e=20 > condition symbols listed, or if any of the regular expressions matches th= e=20 > error message, then that error does not enter the debugger, regardless of= =20 > the value of debug-on-error. > > This variable is initialized to match certain common but uninteresting=20 > errors that happen often during editing. > > To see what this means in practice, try: > > emacs -Q > M-: (setq debug-ignored-errors nil) RET > M-x toggle-debug-on-error RET > " > M-x eval-buffer RET Thank you, but I believe we all knew that, already. My point has been that end-of-file doesn't really belong to the "common but uninteresting errors that happen often during editing", and your example doesn't change that, no. I guess I can imagine some kind of constantly-evaling-buffer-no-matter-what automation, triggered by examples like yours, leading to annoyance, but I'm not aware of such a thing (and would consider such automation broken if it existed; surely it would at least have to be handling end-of-file itself anyway). --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229508232169 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 17:58:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45517 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhFy-0008Mc-6n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:58:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhFv-0008MF-5v for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:58:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhFo-0005K7-ID; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:57:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=bVkYn4iM73f3h0mYyLAqxVCWIEaTbHszQWtX126Gyvk=; b=TxrxnZroxc2CYIJ5YY/0 faw/waOfYc5hk3qhmpJDVLY5QwwSvfhpBujHw5uyTVDQbcZSSU8oYnoS4rid51bX03Mo9YkSxtes2 godDSxXY94WSSK+wg0DoTtfgrncsfDepWX7BfrbjArDYrX+s8fU1W4nm0/2RI70BD+GdhSrBG9dwz 9Eu7taHX3HxfRewANzET/JfoLPOPjok+n6mW4U/EDZC2Mhj3/0jeERSQrJdtRqcehZBzUydUgzEyr 2hWT2eyog7CrVcghvGQ0iqWZkhs+2rvFbUb39nUXaJ8t6cPABBGQlz/uaK9XuCEf/A5MdHt2Hh8AO UYNki6GX4CrWBw==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:58:00 +0300 Message-Id: <835y5d5z6f.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <20230817182958+0200.925365-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:29:58 +0200) References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817182958+0200.925365-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:29:58 +0200 > > > I agree, I'm just saying that removing from the list, and using > > --debug-init at the same time is beyond obscure. > > Why? A hunch, based on a lot of years of talking to users who had problems in their init files. > >> As for --debug-init, why would anyone (who knows about that option and > >> cares about their setup) routinely start Emacs *without* it? > > > > I would actually ask the opposite: why would someone run with that > > option except when they need to debug their init files? It's a > > debugging option. > > Because in the no-errors case it costs the user virtually nothing, and > in case of errors you don't have to restart with --debug-init: you have > the backtrace right there. That's not how people regard use of debugging tools, usually. > > Exactly like most of the users don't routinely run Emacs under GDB. > > Running under GDB is significantly more complex (esp. for a casual user) > than adding a CLI option No, it doesn't. Starting a program from GDB is very similar to starting a program from the shell prompt. GDB was intentionally written to work like a shell in this regard, complete with searching PATH, supporting redirection, etc. > >> I only wish someone would put forth an actual argument for having > >> end-of-file on debug-ignored-errors. > > > > It no longer matters, since that ship has sailed in Sep 1996, if not > > earlier. > > Even GNU Emacs is amenable to such reassessments. Options and/or their > defaults change every release, I don't see how debug-ignored-errors is > any different (if anything, this change would seem relatively minor). We are extremely conservative with changing the defaults of user options, and usually require a very good reason for doing that. I see no such good reason here, as the behavior modified after bug#64163 is better than the old one. > > I don't think I have a clear idea of what aspects of this you think we > > need to document. Please elaborate. > > I thought it was obvious, but I see I should have been more precise > again, I apologize and reformulate: the "mess" here isn't with the > option per se, but with its customization (even though the end result > is, of course, a wrong (not user-intended) value of the option per se). > > Your patch doesn't improve that situation: if a user changes > debug-ignored-errors during initialization, they might end up > (silently!) with an unexpected value. Don't you agree that makes > debug-ignored-errors special enough to need documenting? I'm still not sure I understand: do you want us to document that if debug-ignored-errors are modified in the init files, they sometimes might end up with an unexpected value? If so, I don't think this kind of documentation will be useful. In the (IMO improbable) case that someone will want to remove errors from the default value, as opposed to simply set it to the value they want, I prefer to receive a bug report and explain that removing is not supported with --debug-init, rather than have something like that in the documentation, where it will almost certainly be very hard to discover. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.1692295680831 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:08:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45539 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhPb-0000DK-Px for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:08:00 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:42350) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhPZ-0000DB-2m for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:07:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1692295675; bh=EjP+lthQsh1jeV/EPdztV6RO85bQMLLWYhtcoPG1NFc=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=TpOXRPMlGkufTSZdAd9M1rr6HsUdJXwKNRHVABXToeM+qjNou9Y1SsPyvSTzaPRNU xIDuzr0BOic9Y98G21F+s91xL8EWGD4J0HaDTkj9OaXkR/pFS/GjA+cblx6NB+smw9 mtfjheS0rU7uZdMdyqnasOYNFHdNEE9vUgNyXyXdPeJyRegNFHzy6c4ic/3+RpvmkX /EgMnaifWa2H6HwbFGBXKqNxwGhvxaecpUszEpx1t9nNyhk20LgQhxNGzc7ED+fN6Y IfD1L8Y6gfn8VhhD/2WNg0L5++jY/REXlmwNd+pCLJGOkD56ud9X9C/o5w23AHe6dY IKrXYtuWZ2IBg== Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:07:55 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> Message-ID: <6ed65a8d103f9c88bd37@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > Thank you, but I believe we all knew that, already. > I apologize for trying to help. > > My point has been that end-of-file doesn't really belong to the "common > but uninteresting errors that happen often during editing", and your > example doesn't change that, no. > I'd say that the fact that end-of-file has been in the default value of debug-ignored-errors for a quarter of a century without anyone objecting indicates that it's a reasonable default. And you can easily remove it from there if you want: (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors) From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.16922961144260 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:15:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45557 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhWb-00015v-N0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:15:14 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:9784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhWX-0000Y6-5D for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:15:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692296102; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tl1WCXuweK604DSo6MeSxkpmiWY9/SM0mbidEa/mqXw=; b=jvBuL/TS8n5RMXnRo48GoXvnBl/ERK9NJTg9NGun8zcrhoKo2giKHsbGfJxdAz3fmbX49d k5yjnwUO6Lh3pAIDVRbwWTY1RJbYIywZwqLNV+3ahaic7+sgOHMTjTIsLlGq6otGb6wfxt xMU08bS3XqGzjmes22vl0sfwlN+A0/2zM5spT76ZdKVBOC8KTtKFFQq+hflBx2ULdyvvhV UHjGgIPcepnFRGXQRcty47ozJNUk6i3P4AE7zBcQNgzpRWl1L8l6GfjelTThQ8j+pO8iA8 nKsu8QJvUjB6PUHE5ywiluRhJ0GUpHiwA4aOKuAIs0ES+RpXKlwTGV9XeINifg== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e0e95849 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:15:02 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <835y5d5z6f.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817182958+0200.925365-stepnem@smrk.net> <835y5d5z6f.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:15:02 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817201502+0200.842944-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:58:00 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Running under GDB is significantly more complex (esp. for a casual user) >> than adding a CLI option > > No, it doesn't. Starting a program from GDB is very similar to > starting a program from the shell prompt. GDB was intentionally > written to work like a shell in this regard, complete with searching > PATH, supporting redirection, etc. Yes, after one has installed GDB, learnt how to use it and set it up to be useful with Emacs, the mere act of *starting* it is relatively easy, indeed... > I'm still not sure I understand: do you want us to document that if > debug-ignored-errors are modified in the init files, they sometimes > might end up with an unexpected value? Yes. (I think you mentioned something about saying that it's only safe to do so from after-init-hook or some such in a previous message.) > If so, I don't think this kind of documentation will be useful. Certainly more useful than silently breaking user's setup? (Which I still don't think should be done at all, silent or not, but doing so tacitly seems more on the user-hostile side.) > In the (IMO improbable) case that someone will want to remove errors > from the default value, as opposed to simply set it to the value they > want, I prefer to receive a bug report and explain that removing is > not supported with --debug-init, rather than have something like that > in the documentation, where it will almost certainly be very hard to > discover. IMHO it should be (at least) in the doc string of debug-ignored-errors. --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Gregory Heytings Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229646712587 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:22:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:21:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhcJ-0003Gw-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:21:07 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:37673) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhcD-0003G0-6p for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:21:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692296455; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=EBkv4RNR+vnKZBI2ltvguk+XZLVrFafT8WTYA7RqEkw=; b=UCDV0MQ8P8m/wo8f7pjawA+c+iWgSsTK4TB7ctAJ25VE59SiCtEoIJqbyVWuLx5QigtTa0 Svv/IF2NDwyzUDzze/fLNOUAW9T24Jf3ANS7eb56NSAeSxfHe15qeWJfXmtFFKPaf60X0J 5/JjN7eBJ4/2806m0tUzdYN6sqzpZ2o8t99sS7XLlyxp8u7xxRBRBa6fi3vJyk5IpEXpZn ExtyI47JLXgroY1DnbZxYiuDoCji1XZKe+djrtzOxLzwO2hlxlGI56nbIMeyPgI7g7mMUs 5x7H720MNAV+4foDVWkxsUGJnO7QTVXmYqesCLcehxDKX4TI6n3zd5M4Ml7jmw== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e5fdb801 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:20:55 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <6ed65a8d103f9c88bd37@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d103f9c88bd37@heytings.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:20:54 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817202054+0200.591420-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:07:55 +0000 Gregory Heytings wrote: >> >> Thank you, but I believe we all knew that, already. >> > > I apologize for trying to help. Well, I don't apologize for (*sincerely*) thanking you. > I'd say that the fact that end-of-file has been in the default value of=20 > debug-ignored-errors for a quarter of a century without anyone objecting= =20 > indicates that it's a reasonable default. And you can easily remove it=20 > from there if you want: > > (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors) Maybe you know something about `delq' I do not, but I always use something like (setq debug-ignored-errors (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors)) instead. (See the documentation of `delq'.) --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229710113612 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:31:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhmW-0003XU-IB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:31:40 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:42386) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhmR-0003XJ-P2 for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:31:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1692297094; bh=hO28UlsXbzA4/1qVTQlExPTSNDyq6BnTwBueG88VawQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=slwFOdwR8OA/WadH9yMqj7S7z1J1n06jLWgjtqZJkxFWHYsP5nrC1zCmP0AXAythb TmT+hXgGntzf3k9jfBG8GF9xRjzNRLHOCU5xZrA2kO9uOr8XFCZDGrgRFwPQri4sNb y5eJwhwaglAOxaiL0+zL6V0LVeUPH33DFDBxNgFVpYEgkcLRAOg4T2B7mmhqi/ecKk eOx4f12qwuJIlY2ApGe7U3B3sHdqvMrk6u+2PN1w5Z3xeJo3CBhITe5XVhN3aaa90x bXMpkcOYm3o3420dtyQrazM9mabkpUM9S0IZD6XsARD0PkmRVIjtYWU/NE6LqEvDyj RfBf/jDcUzI5A== Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:31:34 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <20230817202054+0200.591420-stepnem@smrk.net> Message-ID: <6ed65a8d10980db7bf42@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d103f9c88bd37@heytings.org> <20230817202054+0200.591420-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors) > > Maybe you know something about `delq' I do not, but I always use > something like > > (setq debug-ignored-errors (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors)) > > instead. (See the documentation of `delq'.) > Indeed it's safer to write it that way, but the setq is in fact necessary only when the element you want to remove is the first element of the list, which isn't the case here. From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65267 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Gregory Heytings Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net Received: via spool by 65267-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65267.169229739314047 (code B ref 65267); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 65267) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:36:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhrF-0003eV-9h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:36:33 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([2001:19f0:6c01:2788:5400:4ff:fe27:adaa]:15249) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhrC-0003eG-8z for 65267@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:36:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1692297383; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=CI/AvrN23mA3A+cpdfQLv+aBhJ550UFdQn8UAYS0cdA=; b=Ae8EjAbChyuaF31rdCDwt8S2S5ZalfsanvEpEFuyjpUBSqomi8hvp6SQEmjwfTjZVH2P1v aNZB4X08/1AjD8zAv6HjY+zyOEMYZHza/tuVBTkVw5TkoZ2z4ITqU0vJ7sY1sbH0zmGHZG Fyl+dhBQoMm5+lDajumRkXy21p6fGtEcpR+gcanFUEShoriu+A4zYy9bHPXJ1rm6u9gpnn MEoStNHUDKNkt5mv/F3m/xXUumcFLPxjt9SsW2aPnZQR0RaBwzQrxuGzBqva6+lSCJ+fv2 kO1D294uGnxfWhuN42ppdENXb4DXQ8He/lqC4PuN+G6pqejLldthFny5cX8bZw== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e43973a5 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:36:23 +0200 (CEST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= In-Reply-To: <6ed65a8d10980db7bf42@heytings.org> References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d107fa5ee5a95@heytings.org> <20230817192733+0200.156384-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d103f9c88bd37@heytings.org> <20230817202054+0200.591420-stepnem@smrk.net> <6ed65a8d10980db7bf42@heytings.org> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:36:23 +0200 Message-ID: <20230817203623+0200.877735-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:31:34 +0000 Gregory Heytings wrote: >>> (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors) >> >> Maybe you know something about `delq' I do not, but I always use=20 >> something like >> >> (setq debug-ignored-errors (delq 'end-of-file debug-ignored-errors)) >> >> instead. (See the documentation of `delq'.) >> > > Indeed it's safer to write it that way, but the setq is in fact > necessary only when the element you want to remove is the first > element of the list, which isn't the case here. I didn't know that, thank you. (I can't imagine a situation where I would consider relying on that implementation detail a good idea, though.) --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n From unknown Sun Jun 22 03:54:34 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Subject: bug#65267: closed (Re: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken) Message-ID: References: <83350h5xdg.fsf@gnu.org> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 65267 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:38:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1692297482-14210-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1692297482-14210-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug= -init is broken which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 65267@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 65267: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D65267 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1692297482-14210-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 65267-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2023 18:37:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45612 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhri-0003fo-JR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:37:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhre-0003fA-15 for 65267-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:37:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWhrY-0004kE-2s; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:36:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=ehRyFnYPhqHXZyaq7D64mTwGPhAikfvsihmYaUr1n2M=; b=YXXAgcastYx2M2HL8OJP NME1hF3JaI2hcM5nwEyBxY4Z9NjhTmbeG/plvx8hC2C7xxOxBUYoOLmzJCC4uuzqp+jrMzqz907kS K9rkG6A1i+efj4wgU2cjBg3g399ItjZCK9VyfL+yuFNamNmFuc6DGFDE4teOKDLXh5BwF7UNGQtn2 9cvnTNHszolGZBK8Rm3srt4OjwBAUf1tWQU2LV3GEwdoEhoXmdc/hRJZcXUTTjQ81DQQ53oX3DnEJ 3X898B50YxPf/BSrwctGkGMy9DGMQkxucW/Mlm6f3oYAm1moqkICStUgFwWgbLxUAh0M+Q9QUeDbb rZjuJNqFwC0ZRg==; Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 21:36:59 +0300 Message-Id: <83350h5xdg.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= In-Reply-To: <20230817201502+0200.842944-stepnem@smrk.net> (message from =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:15:02 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken, bug#65267: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken References: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> <20230813190826+0200.765169-stepnem@smrk.net> <83v8de581n.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6ox6bnk.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817161619+0200.191251-stepnem@smrk.net> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkf568rf.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817175259+0200.372333-stepnem@smrk.net> <837cpt64d8.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817182958+0200.925365-stepnem@smrk.net> <835y5d5z6f.fsf@gnu.org> <20230817201502+0200.842944-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 65267-done Cc: 65267-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 65267@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > npostavs@users.sourceforge.net > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:15:02 +0200 > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 20:58:00 +0300 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Running under GDB is significantly more complex (esp. for a casual user) > >> than adding a CLI option > > > > No, it doesn't. Starting a program from GDB is very similar to > > starting a program from the shell prompt. GDB was intentionally > > written to work like a shell in this regard, complete with searching > > PATH, supporting redirection, etc. > > Yes, after one has installed GDB, learnt how to use it and set it up to > be useful with Emacs, the mere act of *starting* it is relatively easy, > indeed... I'm told that nowadays installing GDB boils down to running a single command of the package manager. > > I'm still not sure I understand: do you want us to document that if > > debug-ignored-errors are modified in the init files, they sometimes > > might end up with an unexpected value? > > Yes. (I think you mentioned something about saying that it's only safe > to do so from after-init-hook or some such in a previous message.) > > > If so, I don't think this kind of documentation will be useful. > > Certainly more useful than silently breaking user's setup? (Which I > still don't think should be done at all, silent or not, but doing so > tacitly seems more on the user-hostile side.) > > > In the (IMO improbable) case that someone will want to remove errors > > from the default value, as opposed to simply set it to the value they > > want, I prefer to receive a bug report and explain that removing is > > not supported with --debug-init, rather than have something like that > > in the documentation, where it will almost certainly be very hard to > > discover. > > IMHO it should be (at least) in the doc string of debug-ignored-errors. I added something to the doc string. Let's see if this will be discovered by someone. And with that, I'm closing this bug. ------------=_1692297482-14210-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2023 09:34:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58251 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV7Ud-0005Ci-JG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:34:42 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:48110) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vy-0002b0-6Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vs-0003cs-Jo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:40 -0400 Received: from mail.smrk.net ([45.76.87.244]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qV5vp-0005Ii-TB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:54:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smrk.net; s=20221002; t=1691913270; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xMlrSELhUnSZtSBvr5bvy9fXidXcqw5rcZK+mb2my5I=; b=Rhl2FlcmihkmMAxH8T218Q9wWChzt0ZwMmNfdIVUVWzopwOII/K+We92Gt1Q8IBod4+G/v rU8yggoTNa6HUzKDJYP3m5tqP3iFRswea7bHYOT0C79zuCC3KRGAdS3Ln8Qg1ldn/Q4YwY 2daM4cTqjtr/qdHwjlMs3NLIkUHi0qpDEgvt8ZCZYvaQKrZyCs+5lz5GljXEovsakoRJhx vqzEOQGOeAtQ3pHDTHTqkILFsOONkzfFR+3K2E3Ap4XYEr00+V5l/n8Yrtj5NEiOweYEJ5 TCt6PHu1ga2vVqtFSOeHaz6M/vMS9ze5cX04M+VLJgRCEf286Jck+C6kytuKDw== Received: from localhost ( [192.168.5.2]) by smrk (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 9d64ea99 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 30.0.50; modifying debug-ignored-errors during startup with --debug-init is broken User-Agent: Notmuch/0.37 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Debbugs-Cc: Stefan Monnier Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: <20230813095429+0200.5928-stepnem@smrk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.76.87.244; envelope-from=stepnem@smrk.net; helo=mail.smrk.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 05:34:38 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) sh(1) reproduction recipe: --8<-- initdir=3D$(mktemp -d) echo "(add-to-list 'debug-ignored-errors 'my-error)" >"$initdir"/init.el emacs --debug-init --init-dir=3D"$initdir" \ --eval '(message "%S" debug-ignored-errors)' rm -rf "$initdir" --8<-- In the emacs thus started, the value of `debug-ignored-errors' is "(my-error startup--witness)" instead of `my-error' added to the default ignored error symbol list. (It works as expected *without* --debug-init.) In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.17.8) of 2023-08-13 built on tipi Repository revision: 6d58007bb05b92d5bafb91631df8fef8d99e6722 ^ [that's just 08bf8533bb1d with some unrelated stuff on top, sorry about tha= t] Repository branch: use Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101008 System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --config-cache --without-x-toolkit' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY OLDXMENU PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_MESSAGES:=20 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dfcitx locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Help Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t isearch-fold-quotes-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util text-property-search time-date subr-x mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils cl-extra pp cl-print byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile debug backtrace find-func thingatpt help-fns radix-tree help-mode cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd touch-screen tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo xinput2 x multi-tty move-toolbar make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 55621 13813) (symbols 48 6384 0) (strings 32 18969 1832) (string-bytes 1 511550) (vectors 16 12190) (vector-slots 8 168978 11702) (floats 8 45 36) (intervals 56 405 0) (buffers 992 12)) --=20 =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n ------------=_1692297482-14210-1--