From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 24 22:59:36 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2010 02:59:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ORz8i-0003IO-Fs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:59:36 -0400 Received: from osh-net-219-98.onshore.net ([66.146.219.98] helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ORz8g-0003IJ-43 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:59:34 -0400 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43106 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ORz8c-0001QC-86 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:59:30 -0500 From: Karl Fogel To: submit@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: It's not obvious that landing page is an ordered, paginated list. Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <87r5jvhl65.fsf@red-bean.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Karl Fogel List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Package: debbugs.gnu.org One can't tell that the default Emacs bugs landing page is an ordered, paginated list. To reproduce: go to "Emacs reports" from http://debbugs.gnu.org/, and land on this page: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1 Although that page says at the top that it is "Showing results 0 - 100 of 2006." ...there is no indication that the listing is ordered starting from most recent. The individual bug lines do not show their filed dates or latest-activity dates, so to the user they have no anchor in time. I did not realize when I went to that page that it was showing me the most recently filed bugs. (If you scroll down to the bottom where the search area is, and see that the the "Reverse Bugs" checkbox is checked, you might guess that it's a reverse chronological sort, I suppose.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 25 15:38:21 2010 Received: (at 6509) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2010 19:38:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OSEjE-0002mO-UD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:38:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OSEjC-0002mJ-I6 for 6509@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:38:19 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OSEj8-0004BZ-CD; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:38:14 -0400 To: Karl Fogel Subject: Re: bug#6509: It's not obvious that landing page is an ordered, paginated list. References: <87r5jvhl65.fsf@red-bean.com> From: Glenn Morris X-Spook: Leuken-Baden bemd Jiang Zemin RSA ICE SWAT eavesdropping X-Ran: "[*O2JoEUv41],lLSy`^\f)|"3)plxO7/)cyu6sp;cKV_Cv4iu$nRw9; X-Hue: black X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:38:14 -0400 Message-ID: <5v1vbusy1l.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.8 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6509 Cc: 6509@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) Karl Fogel wrote: > One can't tell that the default Emacs bugs landing page is an ordered, > paginated list. > > To reproduce: go to "Emacs reports" from http://debbugs.gnu.org/, and > land on this page: > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs;max-bugs=100;base-order=1;bug-rev=1 > > Although that page says at the top that it is > > "Showing results 0 - 100 of 2006." > > ...there is no indication that the listing is ordered starting from most > recent. The individual bug lines do not show their filed dates or > latest-activity dates, so to the user they have no anchor in time. I > did not realize when I went to that page that it was showing me the most > recently filed bugs. I don't know what to do about this. I think adding dates to the display would just clutter things up and not add very much. It seems to be a common bug tracker convention that bug number implies a chronological order. If you click the "Toggle all extra information" button at the bottom (which perhaps should also be at the top), you get the dates shown. I took a look at the default Launchpad and Bugzilla outputs. Eg by searching for bugs in the Bazaar project, I end up at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bazaar/+bugs?field.searchtext=&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=project&field.scope.target=bazaar * This does not show any dates. * It shows a paginated result. The indication of this is "x -> y of z results", together with "next" and "previous" buttons, at the top and bottom of the page. This is all basically the same as the debbugs page. * The bugs are in some kind of order that is not clearly stated anywhere. By inspection, it is severity, then bug number. This is the same as the debbugs page; except that: i) The division by severity in debbugs is done by dividing things into separate sections. I think this is clearer, not sure. ii) Debbugs also does some extra sorting, eg by "moreinfo". There is no way for you to know this, but if you choose "order by" "oldview" from the options at the end of the page, this sorting is taken out. iii) I thought it made most sense to show the most recent reports first, so ours is in reverse order. If you prefer a non-reversed order, simply visit debbugs.gnu.org/emacs. This is actually the default debbugs search result page (except broken up into 400 bug chunks). The links from the main page debbugs.gnu.org are what I thought made more sense for browsing. Taking a look at the default "firefox" bug page in Bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=emacs * Again, there is no date information shown. * The bugs are not paginated (at least with 850 bugs). I think this is worse than what debbugs does now. * Again, the bugs are in some kind of order that is not specified. It looks to be severity, than bug number again; but I think it is lees clear than the debbugs display. So I don't see any clear way to make things substantially better. The "Summary" sections should probably make it clearer they only apply to the bugs currently being displayed, not the total on all pages. I don't know how to make them display the overall totals I'm afraid. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 25 18:29:55 2010 Received: (at 6509) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jun 2010 22:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OSHPH-0003wC-Cr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:29:55 -0400 Received: from osh-net-219-98.onshore.net ([66.146.219.98] helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OSHPG-0003w5-5a for 6509@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:29:54 -0400 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49582 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OSHPC-0002NY-9r; Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:29:50 -0500 From: Karl Fogel To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#6509: It's not obvious that landing page is an ordered, paginated list. References: <87r5jvhl65.fsf@red-bean.com> <5v1vbusy1l.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:29:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5v1vbusy1l.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:38:14 -0400") Message-ID: <87vd96zqxu.fsf@red-bean.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6509 Cc: 6509@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Karl Fogel List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Glenn Morris writes: >So I don't see any clear way to make things substantially better. > >The "Summary" sections should probably make it clearer they only apply >to the bugs currently being displayed, not the total on all pages. I >don't know how to make them display the overall totals I'm afraid. Okay. If the summary section just made it clear that it's only referring to the current page, that would already be a big help in terms of reducing confusion for new landers on the page -- that might be the lowest-hanging fruit here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 29 12:18:23 2010 Received: (at 6509-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2010 16:18:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OTdVv-000672-CN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:18:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OTdVt-00066v-RL for 6509-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:18:22 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OTdVp-0000CN-9c; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:18:17 -0400 To: 6509-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6509: It's not obvious that landing page is an ordered, paginated list. References: <87r5jvhl65.fsf@red-bean.com> <5v1vbusy1l.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87vd96zqxu.fsf@red-bean.com> From: Glenn Morris X-Spook: Glock Ansar al-Islam Rand Corporation USCOI lynch IDEA X-Ran: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6509-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.1 (------) >>The "Summary" sections should probably make it clearer they only apply >>to the bugs currently being displayed, not the total on all pages. Implemented. I opened a separate bug summarizing the problems with multi-page searches. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 29 14:11:13 2010 Received: (at 6509) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2010 18:11:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OTfH6-0006y3-Pv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:11:13 -0400 Received: from osh-net-219-98.onshore.net ([66.146.219.98] helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OTfH5-0006xy-Vq for 6509@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:11:12 -0400 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47138 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OTfH1-0004r7-L8 for 6509@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:11:07 -0500 From: Karl Fogel To: 6509@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#6509: closed (Re: bug#6509: It's not obvious that landing page is an ordered, paginated list.) References: <76tyollsmu.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87r5jvhl65.fsf@red-bean.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:11:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: (GNU bug Tracking System's message of "Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:19:02 +0000") Message-ID: <87eifp675w.fsf@red-bean.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6509 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Karl Fogel List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Likewise -- page is much clearer (at least to me) now. Thank you very much. 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