From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:09:30 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#64868 <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#64868 <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) Reply-To: bug#64868 <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:09:30 +0000 retitle 64868 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) reassign 64868 emacs submitter 64868 Van Ly severity 64868 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 26 02:47:02 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2023 06:47:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47457 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOYIY-0003B6-MS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 02:47:02 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:52126) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOYIW-0003Aa-Pu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 02:47:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOYIR-0001xM-7t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 02:46:55 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOYIP-0000mY-FG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 02:46:54 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@ryo.sdf.org [209.160.32.186]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 36Q6kUf0017905 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:46:41 GMT Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 36Q6kU0Q011468; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:46:30 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:46:30 GMT Message-Id: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=van.ly@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) When there are three or more windows in a frame C-x o runs the command other-window. Wanting to goto the previous window the keybinding for that is not obvious. C-x p is a keymap prefix for project related work. May I suggest to make possible the binding C-x O for (other-window -1) as follows (global-set-key (kbd "C-x O") #'(lambda () "Previous window." (interactive) (other-window -1))) Use case to demonstrate idea suggested 1. run, emacs -Q -nw --color=no 2. create three windows in one frame 3. when wanting to goto the prev window, C-x o runs the command other-window that goes the long way around 4. C-x O that runs the command (other-window -1) improves the life quality experience The *Messages* buffer says C-x o (translated from C-x O) runs the command other-window Similarly if C-j behaves like C-m in the dired buffer to run the command dired-find-file that feels better. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 26 07:14:28 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2023 11:14:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOcTM-0001t9-KI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:14:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOcTK-0001sw-Rw for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:14:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOcTF-0006Vy-HB; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:14:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=vgMpAA2g02VaCjCOnD+XQkanAqo9Xwx0wvAyKOkNi/A=; b=jGspYnpedc68 NhcVruP89p2RYGzTyqnf2GCr4vfEYy2iDkHiG5v4TcsZyrcXjmGiNyxr5ZEu4IVPO5KkSJfvLYHBK ZVECLUyII3ANo2ko+QG5+cpk3F+LjGjYUNM6w+rBDE/2yVZbTRq0LPT2V2ML/XzrAvFicTEhs7Aa2 oxmbb5pgybfWR0oVnr5vu6gmDUdSE9y0gF5KkIsZEnlCtyUDtvJTneE6id53iTytyID5XGIZS0kSK SPgg6DukYckvSCW4oICpdoAvOcCSEgIaiC7NiCEHjHiAwWynsg0izqe8BPJKQods8zxuyB+MVkc9V eJszx23LKZxbvsquyKDHuA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOcTC-0001k6-R0; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:14:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:15:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 06:46:30 GMT > From: Van Ly via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > > When there are three or more windows in a frame C-x o runs the command > other-window. Wanting to goto the previous window the keybinding for > that is not obvious. C-x p is a keymap prefix for project related work. What's wrong with "C-- C-x o" (or "C-u - C-x o" if you are on a text-mode terminal)? > May I suggest to make possible the binding C-x O for (other-window -1) > as follows We don't have too many free key sequences, so "wasting" one on something that can be easily achieved via an existing binding is not a good idea, IMO. Of course, you can always make this binding in your own configuration. What I wrote above is about the default bindings -- I see no justification to change that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 26 09:20:04 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2023 13:20:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOeQt-0007re-PC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:20:04 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:50770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOeQs-0007rA-6f for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:20:03 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@rie.sdf.org [205.166.94.4]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 36QDJo1J028516 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:20:00 GMT Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 36QDJmW9005492; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:19:48 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:19:48 GMT Message-Id: <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:15:06 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:15:06 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > What's wrong with "C-- C-x o" (or "C-u - C-x o" if you are on a > text-mode terminal)? > C-- shrinks the font size depending on the console. To run the universal-argument command I map the C-u to somewhere else as the fingers more frequently use C-u for rubbing out from the current position to left margin position zero. I use Super-u or Escape-u for universal-argument and avoid that if I can because Super and Escape are read differently depending on console and keyboard context. > > May I suggest to make possible the binding C-x O for (other-window -1) > > as follows > > We don't have too many free key sequences, so "wasting" one on > something that can be easily achieved via an existing binding is not a > good idea, IMO. I agree. I guess we could use C-x O for now until something more preferable comes along to occupy the big O. org-mode? That fits nicely next to project. > Of course, you can always make this binding in your own configuration. > What I wrote above is about the default bindings -- I see no > justification to change that. Perhaps there could be a minor mode to flip the switch on C-u and C-h behavior. Rolling your own C-u and C-h behavior breaks functionality for example to find completions to C-x p using c C-x p doesn't do what the default C-h does I guess c C-x p C-h ; or TAB, I guess wrong there too The fallback is to search the output from b or the describe-bindings command for C-x p. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 26 09:47:16 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2023 13:47:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47733 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOerD-00008Y-No for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:47:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOerB-00008F-Ai for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:47:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOer4-00048O-Bv; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:47:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=8yOh163N2MWEj2cwTakpHGpOVfEPGVIzE1ioKmHv1D4=; b=kXjsR3GLbMJQ IDpDTAuOdcd+8oUiN+UxRar1XW+5yj2A3SJ77PWFhCZuGUGoZRUvMXhzaQOP7bx1xaGnMBWzdKSJY 53AWhlAqJjVC3BgW4PSS0onl0roDskju8fXEySZYQEJkdgzxt2e6Zzz3oMo+Dyux34lGp3WWG3U8Z gN9czU4QNOH0GwxZliR/Paj+qKNsN23HrZjVVmwN7RYxUyEH/JBTsZbKU0XQ4T08jlLLAtxl7Bdyq 1n1Th3TkRYdVfebYKOIxE+onefCVOeTeXVg+nsGq2o9qTm/FyaevtMPcImQCEEzDYx+2PioazlpTl W0dEa4XPrtQ+V4Rb/Qst6g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOer3-0006dw-BP; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 09:47:06 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:47:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> (message from Van Ly on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:19:48 GMT) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:19:48 GMT > From: Van Ly > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > What's wrong with "C-- C-x o" (or "C-u - C-x o" if you are on a > > text-mode terminal)? > > C-- shrinks the font size depending on the console. In "emacs -Q"? Doesn't happen for me. > To run the universal-argument command I map the C-u to somewhere else > as the fingers more frequently use C-u for rubbing out from the > current position to left margin position zero. I use Super-u or > Escape-u for universal-argument and avoid that if I can because Super > and Escape are read differently depending on console and keyboard > context. So you will need to find a binding for (other-window -1) that is specific to your customizations. There's no need to change the defaults for that, because key bindings are sort of user customizations that users are encouraged to do to suit their needs and preferences. > > We don't have too many free key sequences, so "wasting" one on > > something that can be easily achieved via an existing binding is not a > > good idea, IMO. > > I agree. I guess we could use C-x O for now until something more > preferable comes along to occupy the big O. org-mode? That fits > nicely next to project. No, I mean we should not give this command a key binding at all, not by default. There's no need, since you can easily do it for you without changing any default bindings. > Perhaps there could be a minor mode to flip the switch on C-u and C-h > behavior. Rolling your own C-u and C-h behavior breaks functionality > for example to find completions to C-x p using > > c C-x p > > doesn't do what the default C-h does I guess > > c C-x p C-h ; or TAB, I guess wrong there too Neither do "C-h c C-x p C-h", so the above is the expected behavior, unrelated to the fact that you rebind C-h. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d5dff348-52c6-4006-b4dd-08db8de5e4ba X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jul 2023 14:37:52.7098 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: sBPA1+h2D7aPQVGSz44wwwhIR/8ml+eIAh1bN28uX5G2d6T9z8ptS3d1QOzUTVRywiT/XHAZ6crfhLupxd7TYw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4474 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-07-26_06,2023-07-26_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=917 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2307260130 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: pQwmr1DrxbB0Lhx73I30vUbWcpwRMmhr X-Proofpoint-GUID: pQwmr1DrxbB0Lhx73I30vUbWcpwRMmhr X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > May I suggest to make possible the binding C-x O for (other-window -1) > as follows >=20 > (global-set-key > (kbd "C-x O") > #'(lambda () > "Previous window." > (interactive) > (other-window -1))) No, please. Users can do that themselves, if that's what they want. Let's not sacrifice another default key for such a thing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 09:07:50 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2023 13:07:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRBZt-000521-Mx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 09:07:50 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:53682) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRBZq-00051r-Lv for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 09:07:47 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@rie.sdf.org [205.166.94.4]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 372D7iRR009352 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=sdf.org; s=sdf.org; t=1690981665; bh=btOtCZB6d69Py9JNfR556I+8Wea9nqyV3K1L68K1acM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:References; b=lYc111m2n2sHw3iTH9E0E091yvf3iWm0P9aRKuLrRdA7F59h0oBIGdK/p0Akul4Jn DYzIh4wQPmjNrE/Fco39Pc5ClCNxRhcUD6IvYugQXqCTPx3GD4SKAtjYxfAvbquUui yN6GeHJUj9KUNGIPdEWhu1ntJRTuq5aGuTFPukcI= Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 372D7gOS017787; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:42 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:42 GMT Message-Id: <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:47:52 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:47:52 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:19:48 GMT > > From: Van Ly > > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > What's wrong with "C-- C-x o" (or "C-u - C-x o" if you are on a > > > text-mode terminal)? > > > > C-- shrinks the font size depending on the console. > > In "emacs -Q"? Doesn't happen for me. > ``emacs -Q'' inside kde/konsole has this and more discomforts for me. > > To run the universal-argument command I map the C-u to somewhere else > > as the fingers more frequently use C-u for rubbing out from the > > current position to left margin position zero. I use Super-u or > > Escape-u for universal-argument and avoid that if I can because Super > > and Escape are read differently depending on console and keyboard > > context. > > So you will need to find a binding for (other-window -1) that is > specific to your customizations. There's no need to change the > defaults for that, because key bindings are sort of user > customizations that users are encouraged to do to suit their needs and > preferences. > I found a better mapping than C-x o, C-x for other-window in the other direction C-x for other-window works well with C-x / A lot of mentions on the Internet say Emacs's drawback is the need to customize it because the defaults are quirky from a different time before keyboard commoditification. > > > We don't have too many free key sequences, so "wasting" one on > > > something that can be easily achieved via an existing binding is not a > > > good idea, IMO. > > > > I agree. I guess we could use C-x O for now until something more > > preferable comes along to occupy the big O. org-mode? That fits > > nicely next to project. > > No, I mean we should not give this command a key binding at all, not > by default. There's no need, since you can easily do it for you > without changing any default bindings. > Repeating several C-u -1 C-x o is suboptimal for me. > > Neither do "C-h c C-x p C-h", so the above is the expected behavior, > unrelated to the fact that you rebind C-h. > The pain for the gain from remapping C-h is worth it for me, just need f1 to function equally in place of C-h for tablike completion. Is there a way to overlay ``b'' in the read-only modes such as view-mode to function in the opposite direction to SPC. The ``self-insert'' default for keys in read-only modes feels like a bug you step on, notice but don't squish by habit. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6554bf4d-dde7-43d8-42b4-08db9364824d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Aug 2023 14:26:49.4975 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: A+csdn6wAz2B/kQH6hCuyOff36T2fmNsw3YdqCN2XHlvlMQHMx5tlEAjrhS0RKaiJYSrZ9JJZkpIIcsuKVBPdQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ2PR10MB7016 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-08-02_10,2023-08-01_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=756 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2308020128 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 5ddRByQ7x3PP8jqNiPK9CR9ABqXR3pwD X-Proofpoint-GUID: 5ddRByQ7x3PP8jqNiPK9CR9ABqXR3pwD X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: "64868@debbugs.gnu.org" <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > I found a better mapping than C-x o, > C-x for other-window in the other direction > C-x for other-window > works well with C-x / Again, no, please. Bind these for yourself, if you like. There's no reason to add them as default key bindings. > A lot of mentions on the Internet say Emacs's drawback is the need to > customize it because the defaults are quirky from a different time > before keyboard commoditification. Yes, well, binding C-x up/down by default, as you suggest, just adds two more quirky defaults. Quirky and convenient are in the eyes of the beholder. Emacs lets you _easily_ get whatever key bindings you like. Circulez. Il n'y a rien a voir. > > we should not give this command a key binding > > at all, not by default. There's no need, since > > you can easily do it for you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > without changing any default bindings. >=20 > Repeating several C-u -1 C-x o is suboptimal for me. "For me." That's the point. What's optimal for user X isn't what user Y wants. Fortunately, both user X and user Y can get what they want, _trivially_. Neither X nor Y need to have their preferences be imposed on others as default bindings. "Tell Emacs" what You want, for Yourself, and your wish is Emacs's command. Immediate, simple; done. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 10:28:50 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2023 14:28:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRCqI-0007S7-Dd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 10:28:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35976) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRCqH-0007Ru-7B for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 10:28:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qRCqC-0000UX-0h; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 10:28:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=dO1ASNryzhbWZ8jQCSzypz5zVVOvQo15JviGw9kaWn0=; b=hGybpDYSBWLf bMYOXLRx2/Twc9xEoGS2CCBYMwxnlzNc1xY8T0xS4jvZDmGc73tpLIeDg2NpaPDZ6lojcratauZ9C F+tlhT02kbbVY7Qn6EqctACysxQCtlvw1ikqWa1+etuSyqPx/Q5sgiiqCXeqgLHH3ByCc+8SYumPa lCTG5xI0eMuRF3CgiBRAECwR0YAZ1bpXRKkygqqli1OZjT2ElMLb1OvJRW4eTwHNzATAfxkE2qUge iQCMeNWVOa0LjIEy8rGhl4Y++3BH6rm/n7KsGCfIGyCUoOuS+MDOYiuNaSg6KM8401ZmXxL4tf/a/ TrBRsFAk2M2Y9yW9BXgq0Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qRCqB-0006JC-7X; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 10:28:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:28:51 +0300 Message-Id: <83leetzffg.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> (message from Van Ly on Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:42 GMT) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:42 GMT > From: Van Ly > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > Is there a way to overlay ``b'' in the read-only modes such as > view-mode to function in the opposite direction to SPC. I don't understand what you mean by "overlay". The function in the opposite direction of SPC is View-scroll-page-backward, so if you want to bind it to some non-default key, you can (although it already has a convenient binding to S-SPC). > The ``self-insert'' default for keys in read-only modes feels like a > bug you step on, notice but don't squish by habit. I don't understand what you are trying to say here. What "self-insert default" are you alluding to? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 12:25:08 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2023 16:25:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50043 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qREeq-0004XX-JH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:25:08 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:60371) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qREen-0004XO-Q2 for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:25:07 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@ryo.sdf.org [209.160.32.186]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 372GP1JE007909 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:25:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=sdf.org; s=sdf.org; t=1690993503; bh=jua6jDzzzTtYvAGT+oZGXRSs0RU39l1bVrU0bYgus1M=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:References; b=JXvsbpjVEDGrxcLogQqj6lYQDaFY1ykJ9tluaxqk7UtWsvbDeOJj7oCuMU2kOeTMG fsf4PozPr5DnM/Mpxy3v8ic7565USDgW2bFD1+ddgnf8VdQHxp0Rd+wvVhSsuxZcdv 62mz4Fv/I0KexJiOgulckOzgOXQwKmJCoes+CatA= Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 372GP090029439; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:25:00 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:25:00 GMT Message-Id: <202308021625.372GP090029439@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:26:49 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "64868@debbugs.gnu.org" <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> > Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for > (other-window -1) > Thread-Index: AQHZxUJwcO0Jo4uOwUSm01YOR7OuKq/XDVQg > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:26:49 +0000 > Accept-Language: en-US > Content-Language: en-US > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > I found a better mapping than C-x o, > > C-x for other-window in the other direction > > C-x for other-window > > works well with C-x / > > Again, no, please. Bind these for yourself, > if you like. There's no reason to add them > as default key bindings. > Well I apologise if I suggested to change default bindings. I think an improvement is to have the capability to switch to the other window in the other direction. I see keybindings like visual themes the end user can mix and match without too much effort. > > A lot of mentions on the Internet say Emacs's drawback is the need to > > customize it because the defaults are quirky from a different time > > before keyboard commoditification. > > Yes, well, binding C-x up/down by default, > as you suggest, just adds two more quirky > defaults. > The default is unused. > Quirky and convenient are in the eyes of > the beholder. Emacs lets you _easily_ > get whatever key bindings you like. > > Circulez. Il n'y a rien a voir. > > > > we should not give this command a key binding > > > at all, not by default. There's no need, since > > > you can easily do it for you > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > without changing any default bindings. > > > > Repeating several C-u -1 C-x o is suboptimal for me. > > "For me." That's the point. What's optimal > for user X isn't what user Y wants. > > Fortunately, both user X and user Y can get > what they want, _trivially_. Neither X nor > Y need to have their preferences be imposed > on others as default bindings. > > "Tell Emacs" what You want, for Yourself, > and your wish is Emacs's command. Immediate, > simple; done. > So make it possible to toggle in keybinding ``overlays''. I have lived without wanting to do the C-u -1 C-x o for as long as I can remember and put off figuring how to make access easier. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 12:45:43 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2023 16:45:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50060 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qREyl-00053Y-9F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:45:43 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:56391) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qREyh-00053O-2n for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:45:41 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@ryo.sdf.org [209.160.32.186]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 372Gja1K005360 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:37 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=sdf.org; s=sdf.org; t=1690994737; bh=8NgAbLJh6IRO78nNb95kQREleCBR+UA+ea7INh9rvpw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:References; b=spGhN3Hxnm3HgVBnmm6kiW8qVnyEO3VRoz3RPQrfBSR5G8oL1hbf8tgufkeVO+11m YfJGTGiWmiyI0UQ4ApSqWryRjS+0F0unm6Vr8fbuAqEHBwDe9X0pLDQBghyPAMS1+v bUROEiZc+oe+SOV03Mi8jKV8WBycf6cNGfkdDqOk= Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 372GjZ84027586; Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:35 GMT Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:35 GMT Message-Id: <202308021645.372GjZ84027586@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83leetzffg.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:28:51 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> <83leetzffg.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:28:51 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:07:42 GMT > > From: Van Ly > > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Is there a way to overlay ``b'' in the read-only modes such as > > view-mode to function in the opposite direction to SPC. > > I don't understand what you mean by "overlay". The function in the > opposite direction of SPC is View-scroll-page-backward, so if you want > to bind it to some non-default key, you can (although it already has a > convenient binding to S-SPC). > As examples, in the occur-mode-hook and view-mode-hook I map "b" to scroll-down-command and View-scroll-line-backward. Can that be done once by grouping occur-mode and view-mode as members in a read-only mode for "b" to function that way to page in the opposite direction SPC would scroll? By overlay I mean how the meaning of keybindings are stacked. At bottom are the defaults. A user interface lets an overlapping set to stack above them, kind of how the visual themes work I imagine. > > The ``self-insert'' default for keys in read-only modes feels like a > > bug you step on, notice but don't squish by habit. > > I don't understand what you are trying to say here. What "self-insert > default" are you alluding to? Well, in view-mode there are many "self-insert-command" keys mapped such as "b" or "i" or "j". I expect the key bindings to self-insert-command in read-only modes to be unused. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 59ea2bea-5660-42fe-c2a8-08db9377e593 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Aug 2023 16:45:36.4741 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: iGszo5DoPiCcdUZHTUoPTggNFjT06TTvSYfptmJqzASavaPjQODw1nAp1nY4p2eLCeRDlnV5HmalJClmQGxTIQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN0PR10MB5158 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-08-02_13,2023-08-01_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=726 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2308020148 X-Proofpoint-GUID: WvWM3w0bXfPclgilvW51w9rz-9OauHGT X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: WvWM3w0bXfPclgilvW51w9rz-9OauHGT X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: "eliz@gnu.org" , "64868@debbugs.gnu.org" <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > > Yes, well, binding C-x up/down by default, > > as you suggest, just adds two more quirky > > defaults. >=20 > The default is unused. Precisely. And the fact that it's not used by default is no reason to use it by default. > So make it possible to toggle in keybinding > ``overlays''. No idea what that means. Whatever it is, if you want to know how to do it, for yourself, post a question to help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. > I have lived without wanting to do the > C-u -1 C-x o >=20 > for as long as I can remember > and put off figuring how to > make access easier. Just ask help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, or some other Emacs help venu. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 13:01:33 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2023 17:01:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50085 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRFE5-0005Xl-2B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 13:01:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qRFE0-0005XV-IF for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 13:01:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qRFDv-0003OU-9x; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 13:01:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2mlzDsiOa6YM+Oz3zcuIZXRXW0sXipTkMIDRw77ZAXw=; b=g0GLVZcsCRnY ngt6OfbZM66s1esEL1RCMn15XPc9xX6QFmOQBiAvNRXupkzOUGqkVD39ptPmno/77U6FAqcjWmcz5 /z1lChqNrJcS6BOjeHBrO2jik+KgLevR+wJ6iVmA1P/v0cM7RTFuJJC6r1hfRvML3MFBAFB2vLQJt ChZgHLZ4Fd1O0bS+jDf+u6AitQKriT5x6TK50s0fOZFNdDf/4A+9O0pxgx9P1cAPBVTCG75dvI/iz lMLS0EENmxlqMxQ5McP3frISVguOMa4N56L5Frmhoddcr55OFdfEWro0xX/ruZayndiZzrCk+nnt6 HUGvTA02LGi3Ob5hLlYK/g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qRFDu-0000su-PF; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 13:01:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2023 20:01:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83fs51z8d2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <202308021645.372GjZ84027586@sdf.org> (message from Van Ly on Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:35 GMT) Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> <83leetzffg.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021645.372GjZ84027586@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:35 GMT > From: Van Ly > Cc: 64868@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Is there a way to overlay ``b'' in the read-only modes such as > > > view-mode to function in the opposite direction to SPC. > > > > I don't understand what you mean by "overlay". The function in the > > opposite direction of SPC is View-scroll-page-backward, so if you want > > to bind it to some non-default key, you can (although it already has a > > convenient binding to S-SPC). > > As examples, in the occur-mode-hook and view-mode-hook I map "b" to > scroll-down-command and View-scroll-line-backward. Can that be done > once by grouping occur-mode and view-mode as members in a read-only > mode for "b" to function that way to page in the opposite direction > SPC would scroll? Each mode has its own keymap. So no, that's not possible, by using just the key binding commands. > Well, in view-mode there are many "self-insert-command" keys mapped > such as "b" or "i" or "j". I expect the key bindings to > self-insert-command in read-only modes to be unused. That's not how such Emacs modes work. Having commands bound to self-inserting characters make it easy to invoke those commands. 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[76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s8-20020a639248000000b0055c090df2fasm11781155pgn.93.2023.08.02.14.00.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Aug 2023 14:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <24a8e947-afed-236b-5e54-337ef1a81b2f@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:00:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) Content-Language: en-US To: Van Ly , 64868@debbugs.gnu.org References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> From: Jim Porter In-Reply-To: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/25/2023 11:46 PM, Van Ly via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: > When there are three or more windows in a frame C-x o runs the command > other-window. Wanting to goto the previous window the keybinding for > that is not obvious. C-x p is a keymap prefix for project related work. > > May I suggest to make possible the binding C-x O for (other-window -1) > as follows I believe Emacs discourages keybindings with capital letters, since it can cause surprising results if the user has Caps Lock on. In this case, Caps Lock being on would cause "C-x o" to behave "backwards". I don't know if this is a firm rule, but we should at least take it into account. (Of course, there's nothing stopping you from adding this keybinding for your own configuration.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 02 22:42:28 2023 Received: (at 64868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2023 02:42:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qROIG-0003rW-Ip for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 22:42:28 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:55042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qROIE-0003rC-6j for 64868@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2023 22:42:27 -0400 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@ryo.sdf.org [209.160.32.186]) by mx.sdf.org (8.16.1/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 3732gMH4025305 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:42:23 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=sdf.org; s=sdf.org; t=1691030544; bh=YQ3PIvZG9pkUQifvTMK4CC3PJbU9coZt4nmls5XgEVw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Subject:References; b=ziJlQprDsTv09Bvy03qu5Rur3R461fkb1hctVV4pLCn5MZTe5/X8a+Q6pOTxPyH2R OjGcCznyAXkkkOj0A75+cpF7fEMOBJ/xjlF1TGXZAwzqHW6cxYjlKBKbtJ0QzIXjNW AGmde3kFegHGBuD8qNU+qmeshQP+Nc9BoTZpZWMY= Received: (from van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.16.1/8.12.8/Submit) id 3732gLfC015964; Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:42:21 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:42:21 GMT Message-Id: <202308030242.3732gLfC015964@sdf.org> From: Van Ly To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:36 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for (other-window -1) References: <202307260646.36Q6kU0Q011468@sdf.org> <83v8e6oret.fsf@gnu.org> <202307261319.36QDJmW9005492@sdf.org> <83pm4eokc7.fsf@gnu.org> <202308021307.372D7gOS017787@sdf.org> <202308021625.372GP090029439@sdf.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64868 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 64868@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "eliz@gnu.org" , > "64868@debbugs.gnu.org" > <64868@debbugs.gnu.org> > Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#64868: 29.1; C-x O binding suggestion for > (other-window -1) > Thread-Index: AQHZxV3sB/4gkFLMXUW4tbB7YRMCoK/XNaWg > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2023 16:45:36 +0000 > Accept-Language: en-US > Content-Language: en-US > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Yes, well, binding C-x up/down by default, > > > as you suggest, just adds two more quirky > > > defaults. > > > > The default is unused. > > Precisely. And the fact that it's not used > by default is no reason to use it by default. > A wisecrack has said in the limit incompetence and sabotage is indistinguishable. > > So make it possible to toggle in keybinding > > ``overlays''. > > No idea what that means. Look for toggle prefix commands for examples. > you want to know how to do it, for yourself, > post a question to help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. > > > I have lived without wanting to do the > > C-u -1 C-x o > > > > for as long as I can remember > > and put off figuring how to > > make access easier. > > Just ask help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, or some > other Emacs help venu. > Better still put it in a QFA and gradually float popular demand to toggle-in options.