From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 24 12:48:35 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2023 16:48:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43890 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyja-0005Il-G7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:48:35 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:56950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyjW-0005I2-Vd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:48:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyjQ-0000O8-Pa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:48:25 -0400 Received: from mout-p-201.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.171]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyjN-0005aS-HQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:48:24 -0400 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [10.196.197.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-201.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R8mLk4nqsz9sRV for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:48:14 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whxvd.name; s=MBO0001; t=1690217294; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=U7QylbKJ9W1e0jFvrk67G1Dgow+XpyD1iqtTKaMHsZM=; b=c+G5Jpx5ikCbNFP+SByocUp3o1Jq3lCwzKpT+LsNRZ2vUCbGW37b87DuB8jq7z5Mufb+gU u+Wij3R8415a+32pB62Xuhfvx8/vo3/C5MJHtglsekQB1DhqTycl4mQ10ZhFaHii71d2RM U1/nlXfpA80N/ey+/wURXLsZS5cY5h1nqUunmeP+zs0KGFaGlLmCSe6TVWYpYZ2Z2Vmh0m L6p45MTos11RM1tiTPvUN5OqznnYyHDjkIOh422kZRFGDUAca7LPbb7UXwZb7AOwAtk0Wy /4qdNHKncXfjAOvHA/YiASod9fCVNfYTucGYxm0fcDuBnvrqpPd6jHG/SxRT2w== From: Sebastian Miele To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:42:09 +0200 Message-ID: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.171; envelope-from=iota@whxvd.name; helo=mout-p-201.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) That was not the case in Emacs=C2=A028. It seems to have been introduced in the following commit: 2c18969c810f338d73beda592ee5af7103132e97 Author: Stefan Monnier AuthorDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:08 2017 -0500 Commit: Stefan Monnier CommitDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:32 2017 -0500 * lisp/help-fns.el (describe-variable): Use cl-print for the value Use `pp-buffer' rather than `pp' so as to avoid calling prin1 twice. 2017 is a while ago. The first pretest release of Emacs=C2=A028 was in December=C2=A02021. So the commit must have entered the current emacs-29 branch in some "non-linear" way. The problem is that the effect of =E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99 being t pe= rtains to all sharing, not just sharing that leads to circles. And that has the effect, that the output can become arbitrarily unreadable. Consider for example: (require 'ispell) (ispell-set-spellchecker-params) (describe-variable 'ispell-dictionary-alist) The display of the value in my machine contains, e.g., "(nil #1# #2# #3# t #4# nil utf-8)". I do not see the reason for hard-coding =E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99 to t= in =E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99. The only reason I can imagine would b= e the prevention of infinite loops. But that cannot be the case, because even with =E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99 nil, the printing routines seem to= check for circularity and handle it gracefully in the output. Is this a bug or a necessity that I do not understand, yet? The NEWS file does not mention this change. In general (and somewhat unrelated), it would be nice if =E2=80=98print-cir= cle=E2=80=99 would be split into two things: (1)=C2=A0make explicit all sharing (as is done now), and (2)=C2=A0make explicit only a subset of sharing that resolves all circles. (The latter would in at least two aspects still be different from the graceful handling mentioned above when =E2=80=98print-ci= rcle=E2=80=99 is nil.) ----- In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.38, cairo version 1.17.8) of 2023-07-23 built on huette Repository revision: 906ecf442c43da98e6b8c7488f549691901690e9 Repository branch: emacs-29 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101008 System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk --with-native-compilation=3Dyes --with-tree-sitter --with-json --with-mailutils --with-imagemagick' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ IMAGEMAGICK JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_COLLATE: C value of $LANG: C.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils pp shortdoc text-property-search mouse-copy mouse-drag thingatpt time-date cl-print byte-opt help-fns radix-tree ispell comp comp-cstr warnings icons subr-x rx cl-seq cl-macs gv cl-extra help-mode cl-loaddefs cl-lib bytecomp byte-compile rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 102484 8121) (symbols 48 7638 0) (strings 32 28748 4608) (string-bytes 1 869676) (vectors 16 19807) (vector-slots 8 344131 11905) (floats 8 148 62) (intervals 56 1312 1) (buffers 984 14)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 24 13:03:10 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2023 17:03:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43913 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyxh-0005fK-Mz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:03:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyxc-0005ep-Vy for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:03:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyxV-0000ld-1L; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:02:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=XvU7wLjwNv5BtmYOJM3NjCpzL9LhHz4UEjZSo+Inyjk=; b=WI00UntndIAsP7MRCdCR ScVIRj39zb8TNa1Rmnt8DFcqfPyrY11pudvJ/5Ry/2HoPD8K2aTu6ih0YFWyhSgWJwBNt567JqvCo iitPrqrJ+mPHjjWs7/FLwOvavt8iQ/Vs9ZVg/JxpismANG9vNuut5VFDWRwTHziE0nMpZU0E3tCoL +XvPstwp0yGYz7F9XDnDVMwmp4OmIYOUVZFpBJU44vNaFcgtBn1tBLMYsYpYZYX90YWUi71plXop5 GG8b/DhSSStKPhJK0DWiJcnDVa2g1CPZdvPK0AcRQGxdmk+mm3NgPx/Ji0D1gZTfWp3+poGOF74XD YrM1gRN/RA0hrg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNyxU-000543-Bw; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:02:56 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 20:03:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7k1qm1g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Sebastian Miele , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> (message from Sebastian Miele on Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:42:09 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Sebastian Miele > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:42:09 +0200 > > That was not the case in Emacs 28. It seems to have been introduced > in the following commit: > > 2c18969c810f338d73beda592ee5af7103132e97 > Author: Stefan Monnier > AuthorDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:08 2017 -0500 > Commit: Stefan Monnier > CommitDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:32 2017 -0500 > > * lisp/help-fns.el (describe-variable): Use cl-print for the value > > Use `pp-buffer' rather than `pp' so as to avoid calling prin1 twice. > > 2017 is a while ago. The first pretest release of Emacs 28 was in > December 2021. So the commit must have entered the current emacs-29 > branch in some "non-linear" way. I don't think so. I see this code in Emacs 28.1. So I'm not sure why you didn't see this behavior in Emacs 28, if indeed it is caused by print-circle. > The problem is that the effect of ‘print-circle’ being t pertains to > all sharing, not just sharing that leads to circles. And that has the > effect, that the output can become arbitrarily unreadable. Consider > for example: > > (require 'ispell) > (ispell-set-spellchecker-params) > (describe-variable 'ispell-dictionary-alist) > > The display of the value in my machine contains, e.g., "(nil #1# #2# #3# > t #4# nil utf-8)". > > I do not see the reason for hard-coding ‘print-circle’ to t in > ‘describe-variable’. The only reason I can imagine would be the > prevention of infinite loops. But that cannot be the case, because > even with ‘print-circle’ nil, the printing routines seem to check for > circularity and handle it gracefully in the output. > > Is this a bug or a necessity that I do not understand, yet? > > The NEWS file does not mention this change. > > In general (and somewhat unrelated), it would be nice if ‘print-circle’ > would be split into two things: (1) make explicit all sharing (as is > done now), and (2) make explicit only a subset of sharing that resolves > all circles. (The latter would in at least two aspects still be > different from the graceful handling mentioned above when ‘print-circle’ > is nil.) Adding Stefan to the discussion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 24 13:32:38 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2023 17:32:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43959 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNzQE-0006RF-Eu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:32:38 -0400 Received: from mout-p-101.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050:0:465::101]:55178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNzQC-0006Qv-NN for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:32:37 -0400 Received: from smtp2.mailbox.org (smtp2.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-101.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R8nKj6989z9sqG; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:32:25 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whxvd.name; s=MBO0001; t=1690219945; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Cy4kClVdgZf8oeO0GqDm+5mtFpNzB7K7CGjHhNqriW8=; b=EL+6p7M1tdkAbttxXHDPf3xc2TXy8f3KAG8WqUHSlnKVwPT9GdwhKcxUcvEpvBG6nRYrF5 riTI7ZhvlRRwHx94k+BGxr6ltEl1BUlv5C12FSX4D7zHCkkEKqW4Nto9k+tUBiufCQn3+a Oe541iqodd3CwNU/OClwja/qdtIvugfhGg0y6tyqSkr1hVU+amF/HGAVj8DDVThMcVjYMW YyDHboviNFTxDGnULX1FuW2kRz+j1MLlCEXq6PYV90HgjdF7ZtQeP3qGFk5g92ZY02OETC lCAn1Gk8FJ87xB5tUM0QP51p1xPf3gSsI3tHfU+43Qh3qfWv2H19uBiLOYwdnA== References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> <83o7k1qm1g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Sebastian Miele To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:23:53 +0200 In-reply-to: <83o7k1qm1g.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87wmyp8bbs.fsf@whxvd.name> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R8nKj6989z9sqG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Eli Zaretskii > Date: Mon, 2023-07-24 20:03 +0300 > >> From: Sebastian Miele >> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:42:09 +0200 >> >> That was not the case in Emacs=C2=A028. It seems to have been introduced >> in the following commit: >> >> 2c18969c810f338d73beda592ee5af7103132e97 >> Author: Stefan Monnier >> AuthorDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:08 2017 -0500 >> Commit: Stefan Monnier >> CommitDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:32 2017 -0500 >> >> * lisp/help-fns.el (describe-variable): Use cl-print for the value >> >> Use `pp-buffer' rather than `pp' so as to avoid calling prin1 twice. >> >> 2017 is a while ago. The first pretest release of Emacs=C2=A028 was in >> December=C2=A02021. So the commit must have entered the current emacs-29 >> branch in some "non-linear" way. > > I don't think so. I see this code in Emacs 28.1. So I'm not sure why > you didn't see this behavior in Emacs 28, if indeed it is caused by > print-circle. I must have made a mistake when I tested with Emacs=C2=A028 yesterday. Aft= er checking again, the behavior clearly is in Emacs=C2=A028, too. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 05 22:54:25 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2023 02:54:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58416 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qSTuT-0007je-Ha for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 22:54:25 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:44123) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qSTuP-0007jP-FJ for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 22:54:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1691290451; x=1691895251; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=2hCgfVE2c9x5Qu3MNqqQbXn2Ct2pYRgPc3ElMgUOMD4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=D08pdcfwu2JCKoIMn4CDgaJM3q+tuxhkYarmCW+1FlG6Wg9DYnNg6eGL7gH3DJQlHBVcoJ1 dLHeKkOH+gVymJ1dPpi6BjKp4FYeyOfM0joViKJoxh01qfcIVtbnlSqKzEspmgL8+QTG3Aauq h72f4ufzCVXjXEoHiMaI9Nl361BnM8BEYMVGmJvPH+aEiQ3VhgdHSJh7DxjpCkGWIHPrj0FLK tY5HF6JPge2Sw6Xwy4HAc0wUjXKT0qC2GxdWGykvow/Xh067v/Zep7qntsVPZHKCXhveGzga0 8osCNTiOOoseADxsxbU7p9dxG5XA6aAXEqXS8wrySFQGasrTUrNg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.75.138.214]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M9IOZ-1qUyTU0k1X-006SQ9; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 04:54:11 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Sebastian Miele Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t In-Reply-To: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> (Sebastian Miele's message of "Mon, 24 Jul 2023 18:42:09 +0200") References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2023 04:54:10 +0200 Message-ID: <877cq8519p.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bq8VqIbNPQiMeKa9CUheoDe6D+v0n6mWuXso4hVr+si0D+q90Rv WumUNNnKxeakCsy0RgrYK/ioPHvA+fjcsouF87/wjovR5UK+pkfJLzjpVlWFINZYs4EJcPx OM7iLnetzROd2/L7z2bkiYFXtgeqmjPJX6OXhfl3o7LKv3wAIuypZUluS66aVTpqli0e/Yn m9iFmmlDZvabmrvqmjgPQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:TO+jhkcDo04=;RvUwZ9h/PjRtJ3bKL1u69H3Huoz 9JSB+O6TbPAk6kg9FeWn4Ittxlm7sIoOUntq6d9M2MqEr3r5txNHfUxIn71C6jqbQuYVhiPkz +wKujpoWOa3/QW78qV/aSkvyOIDE+xfXe8AQBcOBKlLSx1VXXP3V11FwWlkszHTLhHw5P9/7H kJ6/ghXQ9f6Zaa44s1S4/ROH4l8pZSpgedl1uZkHAZavhFA45ujvl3x+UlXTp+eRLmsa2pcnr Gx5WvebFjcUSy5X5QWUzjCCLGUArbHWe8vVy3LUHpNabWblmJ+YhvWnMQCykbNe43giC9zOPI iAkJ9+AY5exKjXWSOVXG1U75FzIy8NwvlF8YPErd2FSrOi8njLJOjiU0jKLWgmQI5ByGm8SOa tPZ/6dUC4fGUK8HCAYgAorox4u/x5rdbwdeCTKCbhFsFcTICHdcp2wSNbfHK7ohjJmFoG6mZ5 xV4TIYVQMmMkPb5WyS0uPko8sxZpkSMFJyf3NQT+wj/hYlXs0AAnIEkMw6BbbtpMTPYViIYCH 9pBpaze5IGXavC3jR3xHGjybRXVTAcuAdrkZ5a++5rZUVlvD94ZrZc3/g6NplqxmC+Cmp+m+8 4lTXMiGkJ+lxL6+TzX+/ByJAysMkItrLR7/2608leef5qZjqae2SMCZ0XyRxto9yQL8WpriQd dJYR2ebefxH0dZUwSAUAn3qbAVQQ+4x8RF/rkNvVkHBPVQWBPTaDDqcPfLGdirQyQqEeYvfn7 oPw8guNCypIsgUd2q38pD1atOs4BqlKj7werAcbyiI9n3z71ndOWE8fYwuoRw8ml+Se1Z99r4 9ttowC5CpM4JpV3DZaIlfMTa756gOr/SMC/xTBF/KtJhtpYgCaDrLseRDejhiri9ohDyYY/lE TYe9w5hBsNcOB8qZ5LM95oLjdzrMEloFnnN9ngsB+xw9VSwWOaUhoETw+aNiK+Ib997HyBZj8 0rYTTxv4hiSO5jnnxiWw6oMRSbk= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: 64835@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Sebastian Miele writes: > 2c18969c810f338d73beda592ee5af7103132e97 > Author: Stefan Monnier > AuthorDate: Thu Mar 2 02:08:08 2017 -0500 > > * lisp/help-fns.el (describe-variable): Use cl-print for the value > [...] > > (describe-variable 'ispell-dictionary-alist) > > The display of the value in my machine contains, e.g., "(nil #1# #2# #3# > t #4# nil utf-8)". > [...] > I do not see the reason for hard-coding =E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99 to= t in > =E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99. I think I agree. Both values might be the optimum in different cases. But most users are probably never interested in shared structures, some will even be confused. And those that are interested also know how to print using print-circle enabled themselves. Stefan, would it be ok to turn off `print-circle' for `describe-variable' again, or would this break something in the new code? TIA, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 06 06:09:33 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2023 10:09:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qSahZ-00051d-9O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 06:09:33 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::236]:55670) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qSahQ-00051J-8K for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 06:09:32 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b9ba3d6157so56370691fa.3 for <64835@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 03:09:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691316558; x=1691921358; h=to:cc:date:message-id:subject:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=7/rIZcMIMUEpTVTqJu90RQZZAjGo5eoVFz3L7By6XEA=; b=T40GoDsb4iGuMyaEQjN8vWtjbvFN+m4YI70jw4SrixEjothvKm3nB7L4jMP7r/35s8 o81sRbYs9E/yRR0/+zoqAwX2O96qPF8J+YjPiXf59PDV+1sH6YWCXh25VNov3aAtSx0U Cqnn0MqUAGFgC+k1AmB/tEPcJ/G7FWptx9c/oSvGrh+T14DPLqhdmcf+TvFG5Q105Tyu JG9R4NYdaGu7aP74+QA7HK8Gvg1c2kMnoNifz3ESGuCbR6l/CuvoDI5RVYn4Vj7SW4rC 4pVHUB1LECcwY85c9BY3a+//bLZXQOlTcYYh385s0dY1jjyncx6j238udyYsf4k0d7oR tIJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691316558; x=1691921358; h=to:cc:date:message-id:subject:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7/rIZcMIMUEpTVTqJu90RQZZAjGo5eoVFz3L7By6XEA=; b=kGDcNmkLrMMIEXG97zqKVmdvZZkJzb0/Yoa+5DeR3zTP+9s1/jVDIHt3UhsYSIqWNJ y8r4oHq5j3CUHz83wdGwFpMAoDnaSBemWRXWEtCKPJnjxpvXfFvEz2v1927H7hxAzy2o OL7kHUkQdhgbNYNDU5uKV/egxV7lhBMaSuLxLSzeXFUGYLUckHmmA473xegqF3a4kgnQ YWgO297ZtygcWPjXe4bpjZhUSL9ldyXbYeoExHeJvRxcQh+LpW9I8c4DeKOVpuTOtxwr XJafJbvfb+wwZWumXDa8nF4k2aF/oNwtpalDFsG3F1yPa1lsAK+4TwVVkPhr3RsQ9CsL G52A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw1/A6d3mVNDK+8MhAkrweXjWPb3XM89ACsCI/GxEYRXY7XoWA9 7zIacF8W0ZVNQFgAmbtSXu4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGgtSToblZwYA1Vf4tygZZ8iOW26G7i2ZljBr3B9ywHz9rydUAbhxSAeUXchzogyW+TY47/9Q== X-Received: by 2002:a19:914d:0:b0:4fb:772a:af12 with SMTP id y13-20020a19914d000000b004fb772aaf12mr4004329lfj.21.1691316558141; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 03:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-165-235.bredband.tele2.se. [188.150.165.235]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id eo27-20020a056512481b00b004fe3ae5c5efsm1055361lfb.295.2023.08.06.03.09.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 Aug 2023 03:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?bug=2364835=3A_=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99_unco?= =?utf-8?Q?nditionally_let-binds_=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99_to_t_?= Message-Id: <2B9B42A9-1B2A-41EA-B66D-557471A8A8AA@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:09:16 +0200 To: Michael Heerdegen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Sebastian Miele , Stefan Monnier , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Any way we can toggle print-circle interactively in the display? Perhaps = along with depth or length limits. It would be neat if print-circle would default to t only for actually = circular values, as opposed to mere DAGs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 07 23:00:25 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2023 03:00:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTCxN-0002cR-Mg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:00:25 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:52693) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTCxM-0002cA-5W for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:00:24 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D32E980667; Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:00:18 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1691463617; bh=VxSzywGZYDrXIlpv2cBKqjcNwfIekdHJuk1vWl44tM4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=GzsxjlvM8ioCSHDIDQLUO2NJm0W1B7BpUI5ffdbrkRle0jk7JBEHC6XT0Zn+X1zML g/pDZQQGIiU2nPblZT+Xi4qgdCd7ypkDZvmX+/GfPrmHcdO2n+xhZiXQJYzA246UNg XHYJUAl5lo0cPnO95vCsqL6CaQvHZm9xw3LLsX/KDFjbib7GALJCcZhEJr3gFZ1qa1 ctPRhzSeeqp9x0bV7c8g4BDJqoE9jZDMlGqZKkTwuN5I2l9PYVwj0YphXXPnOHd1nN revcnbiSKpDkCeKTu70YwQtdsAPIhhIMJjwB/AoqLlsbacF3j/bxejgF1K2IBd92/e HPofBEya+rc1w== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id B0F9280058; Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alfajor (host56.201-252-107.telecom.net.ar [201.252.107.56]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 997B61202C4; Mon, 7 Aug 2023 23:00:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t In-Reply-To: <877cq8519p.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Sun, 06 Aug 2023 04:54:10 +0200") Message-ID: References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> <877cq8519p.fsf@web.de> Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:00:04 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Sebastian Miele , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Stefan, would it be ok to turn off `print-circle' for > `describe-variable' again, or would this break something in the new > code? I can't think of any reason it would break anything (famous last words, of course :-) Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 07 23:55:55 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2023 03:55:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34678 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTDp5-00040M-79 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:55:55 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:55910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTDp1-000408-UD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:55:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTDow-00016C-Cv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:55:46 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTDou-0001Jj-Bc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:55:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1691466930; x=1692071730; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=7Jw24SGKLjRo3jtYP/GaL4NHGfNzcJJJm63/rFGilaU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=HvUM5dDIz3SEmtP7SmdjFCxE2tEs32045dP1968aK2eNvmnMwROAP3/+EMHobv+FEOW7pf1 V9sM7r9bB8m5vbSoyXY0BlGGr8kZi5LNjcw8G2S26fB4HlDZZhGwDP9A3uRYPhhqgs/CuuIry kDP0HD8IfYozz1lQWm8nHZ4omTKAsMu2magYUiVEELUCloabk2+70evJupKtCozWh0PcjT3EU 5Q09SRd6ORpjcg9+wOS0FdPoh1CDTD/3C8mtsGYr9IgK5mpuArvZOLZItTiiwSSzkMIJOQlLl nNsumXDa7yUvGxuvlU45glFeBHNypEP0CduoRvVlmf4W1JpwRlAA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.75.138.214]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MkVsg-1q6URj3UcQ-00mOWi; Tue, 08 Aug 2023 05:55:29 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier via's message of "Mon, 07 Aug 2023 23:00:04 -0400") References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> <877cq8519p.fsf@web.de> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 05:55:28 +0200 Message-ID: <87bkfiqjbj.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:WdSxU/FwAq7InIQ/zNtc7WOgoH/dGXPzu2gEggOr1Nhyn8Y6ZJ2 MqP00NELK4PjKFxVS7VuAd9vcmgL+5ABpwOmFrYgwYivTBDs08MHq43Sa+RoxSsoWf3bxxt Ecg2TpWMgf7xw+JLNhir9R2EyakgiY3Bc/JIHGEWwDynq17Vt78WUseNvrIFF4RLii9daa9 5hwAjusHro5m/d4Z7p2Xw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:6pXGp0L05vg=;ibe3+Rkc0GYXo+se2tfqOAiO2WY o3FtGQLcIGyQbcxipLdrPYDrzFAYpXbsSY3SSMgHgj35gzVeyXeMt+qrzGNg3pg7gCw+RGWYw wXiTUsiGHiTM0LLcw8rcgWsja0lKQf7/7aO/plmtK+OBUGMF1CZAd/tbkB6q5Ls0GBZ3ungrO ChOCA4pqLHCcZ7EYIIKGCADuqencLAtRWKJ1AviLPKhl0X+9R49PMD7DtWLRlPpNWM73kpwW7 h0zCvg4VPQ6ToGFFdytPR9Ya3PJuZ0QKs+nt1z98Boo87g7U4lhwbJkngt2mJEIQ2eKC8iVBm w6L4ADwbk9zMcoST5/k3YDINfwpy1juDNzX4dRbDpijGnFdgVG9+tSGNKz48eJWiXFkwjEbJL Q1F6o0+QnZyETUmRba6bCneREtGNaWE03iyCrj9FNpvKeqaGI/DPOAp32DgtqMZMYriT3h8HU fiBjML9ioK32ZFLVgPVQnlnDHiA9zjWLGFlzRf4O7Es9LWd/M+FuuBx/bhfQby0jSeakQApFO 152cZ1Wy1xMLnaWg/KC2hitM+ufjS+DSrmsmY/mZHhMezJq6YI538F/+8d+/B0xzW4Ksy/KMG xZTHEZMbA75NsfdCu3mfzoTxXum2efDlXHgEYbELzfOMn87MweCCUGtX6638kCVNg/NqFeTlW 0ioCltDr3yc94lXADZmDQT5nC5ZTxRtoo+lo8egy0qA2kLZlQnLzqbsFcd4N71uXnb2nX8ZT8 mPFqlLiTRwFyAu8yi4wSEK3wGJfzdOF6jEsNRrNbtAl/+s4yafLBrgbYHgPi3uN0QHS6yrxZI QyZVqlNyOoLh9nDz6w572XXStqoDXIYlSd+QockgvDwuD3g35PGqCZfnE83vCSz95cg7U2ZZf wv+zCalkq8uq2VurmhTpI5mm7QQQJ0QXTaO2up+YILTJYGMC12U24qbuH5UU91Gxg4craXXfc 6MMLY++/6Im9ePXHDRk+cwMydQ4= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.3; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Sebastian Miele , Stefan Monnier , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" writes: > > Stefan, would it be ok to turn off `print-circle' for > > `describe-variable' again, or would this break something in the new > > code? > > I can't think of any reason it would break anything (famous last > words, of course :-) I have a strange feeling. There was not some problem with numbering in the #N syntax (with `print-circle' off) that lead you to this change, or something like this? I vaguely remember there was something... Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 08 08:56:10 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2023 12:56:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35530 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTMFt-0007qV-Ql for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2023 08:56:10 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:17132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qTMFq-0007q2-LV for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Aug 2023 08:56:09 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 75A2E807A4; Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:56:00 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1691499359; bh=l20ySj16sHDvyupliiWwvdxipHEb7k8vw8ZyshUHnwk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=ZdPeBMxK9ychH4s0OD8I5jhAluS5SDCHK/3n2B0gDZRTUK+I5GmF3LcP7LCLYX1oP iMSjRqUK6Jkv35GOOFxCbAprP6SCC5oO24l1UGHuX8rIWguLQOn29fSiz0bCP39EsR aGa15Enr/qODpyE0nv80h91oa62zc2I2Ye6ac+BYKQDUcJIoRgNkzvJnr3nWvYsFRU M/FqqxX+HPRl6UJskax7CSQxEsfbVD6oB5pypc2/E6zJb4Sgol4BmXKkpV0BL2tRpo 6AV+bUz1rPzSXGVwjwXlBHNc5A1oD4owhba0jNE0qiyLF3wLTBxvhn9Dxa6ZLD375/ foYCS65ASlDhA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1C14180081; Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alfajor (host56.201-252-107.telecom.net.ar [201.252.107.56]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D041120243; Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:55:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t In-Reply-To: <87bkfiqjbj.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Tue, 08 Aug 2023 05:55:28 +0200") Message-ID: References: <87zg3lmf1v.fsf@whxvd.name> <877cq8519p.fsf@web.de> <87bkfiqjbj.fsf@web.de> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 08:55:43 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Sebastian Miele , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> > Stefan, would it be ok to turn off `print-circle' for >> > `describe-variable' again, or would this break something in the new >> > code? >> I can't think of any reason it would break anything (famous last >> words, of course :-) > I have a strange feeling. There was not some problem with numbering in > the #N syntax (with `print-circle' off) that lead you to this change, or > something like this? I vaguely remember there was something... There was recently an inconsistency in the numbering, but that wasn't a serious problem, it's been fixed, and it was not related to use of `print-circle` (IIRC I activated `print-circle` there because of a case where I bumped into where it was "obvious" that `print-circle` would make it a lot more readable and I didn't realize it could make it harder to read other values for the unsuspecting user). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 14 22:55:29 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2023 02:55:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVkDQ-0003AY-VD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:29 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:45995) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVkDP-0003AM-4r for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:27 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BC547801B3; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:21 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1692068116; bh=YGi1fRakVj2rzRJcJb5Mk/oPRHAxyvxrGGp8pyGsgHU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=EmNa7JyJJv2PBxB5D/522v8f0Fs00GVoiMfbifpCCMmJlvUxBIYJ5mDAz4RoGeo7g hX+zzan585HLT28xa30WV+/Zhck4jGEo6+rCAefL6k5b3PtvMacEtMng/3T3MOelru GMJd5hdpIyH2eDmbthnLM1qfqOCcqITM2Z+gRXVem56J0bIDQh/jGUh3TPSSLta5d6 ljVF2oCG8OKiQ446Bi2yzdql1D9IgRhpEIsegXK64/uMz/7+EQY+Vf1eS0V0g9RHsU w5OrTyiIKFBsUqw1E+4kQf5+y6Z1kNcFwILguDbG6YDXaNC5+10Zrsi5uu0ONa4eJh yV+pOF/zw7MZA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 498D880060; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.228.154]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A4F912022A; Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Mattias =?windows-1252?Q?Engdeg=E5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#64835: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98describe-variable=E2=80=99?= unconditionally let-binds =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98print-circle=E2=80=99?= to t In-Reply-To: <2B9B42A9-1B2A-41EA-B66D-557471A8A8AA@gmail.com> ("Mattias =?windows-1252?Q?Engdeg=E5rd=22's?= message of "Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:09:16 +0200") Message-ID: References: <2B9B42A9-1B2A-41EA-B66D-557471A8A8AA@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 22:55:15 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.062 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Sebastian Miele , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Any way we can toggle print-circle interactively in the display? Perhaps > along with depth or length limits. I think it would be fairly easy to print with `print-circle` by default and allow users to click on the confusing #N= or #N# to switch to a display without `print-circle`, but I'm not sure it would help the confused users very much. And doing the opposite (i.e. starting from the non-print-circle output) seems a lot less obvious/natural :-( Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 15 08:25:10 2023 Received: (at 64835) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2023 12:25:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVt6j-0003yG-RL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 08:25:10 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::233]:49330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qVt6g-0003xZ-GP for 64835@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 08:25:07 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b9cdba1228so85012281fa.2 for <64835@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 05:25:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1692102300; x=1692707100; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=irK44f3QF9wpiWz+owgwbCEeJnJYxYFbvol7z+kIgYU=; b=UJXljFq2xEyjse8RY8RF+L1UYorpwxJYv4MmfI575fjaY0E8grpIq2yVAozLG93Fhm S1ubGfNrFVa96YUN7/GKpOGKs0yAdWmf9poRmSQzB04M7Bg3jppy3M0T5muMM+7Onfjp KK9LfO4zmFO8IkZiac4YrKRG8wyW/5SDUNr/tVgFD6sLcyj+RTzEcZMRue3DOaHFenWt cDkX5tkQnIMVpUbu2pwgBOlNGzbKY/txRmhGkm7zAZ7pBtfHIeos5t80D5vBpaIZkA8L 2ltHd1qajiGD8TN4Rrb9GxEVmYPK0z554gUG0lJeeZev6ioD4D+Fj0zrbCfkrK0Kz1zr H5Ww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1692102300; x=1692707100; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=irK44f3QF9wpiWz+owgwbCEeJnJYxYFbvol7z+kIgYU=; b=FaXJwlqE44tB1D0UP+CL4A1bPbGLY+Xt1uzurmyd34xzRFs6pfYodqKVaxaTcaaqJB 9PUgeYMhsgd6wt6PYuzQQBZyBMlvswGZ+GfHiJZN9s3unQm32G73UKeqA0Jwy/vj3Uab FiPxpkJJHlIpIH5qJW6U0cJSrtFgG754WmzNdwT+ertz6FDLQA5eziL7ByHPBR6IeRzo xYAoMi4yHnpQaHsAuwiJnv0CcDdvHViKjrWAFwsiaP8b4AuLNgAXB4tuwZ+vo4V0YSOu B/J9H1VMMW4TeYQyPR2A9vZf23nCJYUdnTHrMwIPtvvTWHvCyEmqco/BmJAZkWw1kczJ 4ghQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwOiv5P6KCvX3W6tSd8jpwqSyAEyX4KnVsCLKQfjAtF8ZA5RcJ3 qUWzThkc/deAZbjoxNt4DmI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFvya3pHLbUZRsfjrRgTKpW7pR4/ScP8kdMVrQfs9j39ulL7e81C+uUlDvH3dhXj3QLW3SOsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9f44:0:b0:2b6:ce35:2e9e with SMTP id v4-20020a2e9f44000000b002b6ce352e9emr8749470ljk.44.1692102300260; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 05:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150-165-235.bredband.tele2.se. [188.150.165.235]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z24-20020a2e9658000000b002b9415597d0sm2964573ljh.78.2023.08.15.05.24.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Aug 2023 05:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_bug=2364835=3A_=E2=80=98describe-variable?= =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=99_unconditionally_let-binds_=E2=80=98print-circle?= =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=99_to_t_?= From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 14:24:58 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <249D04A6-CB77-4EB6-88E4-5AA296A23209@gmail.com> References: <2B9B42A9-1B2A-41EA-B66D-557471A8A8AA@gmail.com> To: Stefan Monnier X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64835 Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Sebastian Miele , 64835@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 15 aug. 2023 kl. 04.55 skrev Stefan Monnier : > And doing the opposite (i.e. starting from the non-print-circle = output) > seems a lot less obvious/natural :-( Yes, well, we are probably in a minority wanting the technically precise = information up-front, and even then it's true that in most cases any = non-circular structure sharing is irrelevant.