From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:06:41 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#64759 <64759@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#64759 <64759@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Broken faces Reply-To: bug#64759 <64759@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:06:41 +0000 retitle 64759 Broken faces reassign 64759 emacs submitter 64759 Juri Linkov severity 64759 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 02:40:13 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 06:40:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60392 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMjoD-0003js-ED for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 02:40:13 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:52798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMjo6-0003j0-Ta for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 02:40:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMjnk-0002ab-Em for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 02:39:46 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMjni-000808-2I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 02:39:44 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E16E960009 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:39:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Broken faces Organization: LINKOV.NET Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:37:30 +0300 Message-ID: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) This change broke display of `display-time-date-and-time' on the tab-bar: diff --git a/lisp/time.el b/lisp/time.el index 522bec46ac6..0184f96fcc2 100644 --- a/lisp/time.el +++ b/lisp/time.el @@ -141,6 +141,7 @@ display-time-mail-face (defface display-time-date-and-time nil "Face for `display-time-format'." + '((t (:inherit mode-line))) :group 'mode-line-faces :version "30.1") This face is used by `tab-bar-format-global' that has nothing to do with the mode line, so inheriting from `mode-line' makes no sense. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 03:50:52 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 07:50:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60477 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkua-0005y2-9i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:50:52 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::330]:52253) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkuV-0005xk-Sb for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:50:50 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-3fbd33a57dcso14555145e9.0 for <64759@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 00:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689925841; x=1690530641; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=BWDT2ChJGIXP01Cighx6Yvd6H4tIvHOdTbly7OpBY+4=; b=fM0IMdglw0Nc3+GsQnOSKbof5AL9NfpnZSpjXIb/oxTkgoXJPx2wa8IUNiDSz8qlGO 6+NxNzQ+DXJxlFhxTNujTHDNujyLTDvkRV0xRBSgpN+LadMLuN+xNHvp+899BC63mgNf f0y1IYDRFyF3SHiAUB+7ozhyHyHPPJ8oKT1BV7zpRs8ban9ri/ztxiEjHd6pXXdWuwy3 HxKyBVvOPezLR2IkJ9O3uM2nPnoc34cBzW2qvx1Khn44l8LGy4vU78M9VGxlW4wTki84 fe0u42NoDrl977UKhc+07nsOn4fJzUmzskEbsmTkJ4Z5opyOyWwQ02WJp4AnBxIvo0oo hD+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689925841; x=1690530641; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BWDT2ChJGIXP01Cighx6Yvd6H4tIvHOdTbly7OpBY+4=; b=SK3WY0nSbkojH0aFyEzaXoNIYmbvl44uCp5mlLmbibXtvCLwsjFVab5/0UZWj+O3k2 ZSiYyICqMHMFLNT3OOaSntrKRU5sVfgHP9moJyRR+USqN8H+mn9SngaFfipfegLCW6S1 r1x0FnT33TdzYvK7q2du8OCFK9xaP7ZSW3Nlfb9L7jfZPkk+r56Cr2xn6b+V83UPMXA3 B9bBTCK9FfEKTfKPaX4j8w22lpK7vUMSt0UR77OV889N6G5XgXRxTeqf2Y+1IgyCjNQ/ U88Ig3MXd75oIf0Mlt8CBeORx7R8e6NBvOxQW9YAsB7UWLbVGPc35R3DEz4uMbYUhVoA hwGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLZ3y/4qgQMP5Q/cLcNPgJhedxmpQUd+C8E2joUcbm+aDwv0sVI6 wyz9BtRh+M+sgfVYfoPjeOn1EZogXD8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlFV/FypAXSCIavqXYtSYayemjktizDxLoW7Ql4ZcMZBmBJqDj209tUfMATH6gg6huRqt7vO8A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:450:b0:3fc:8ac:b0e with SMTP id s16-20020a05600c045000b003fc08ac0b0emr835759wmb.32.1689925841166; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 00:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:3e5b:cfef:d3eb:7f8d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f13-20020a1c6a0d000000b003fbdbd0a7desm5552353wmc.27.2023.07.21.00.50.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Jul 2023 00:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:37:30 +0300") References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:50:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87sf9hog8g.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:37:30 +0300, Juri Linkov sai= d: Juri> This change broke display of `display-time-date-and-time' on the = tab-bar: Juri> diff --git a/lisp/time.el b/lisp/time.el Juri> index 522bec46ac6..0184f96fcc2 100644 Juri> --- a/lisp/time.el Juri> +++ b/lisp/time.el Juri> @@ -141,6 +141,7 @@ display-time-mail-face Juri> (defface display-time-date-and-time nil Juri> "Face for `display-time-format'." Juri> + '((t (:inherit mode-line))) Juri> :group 'mode-line-faces Juri> :version "30.1") That=CA=BCs from before 5513f72d3c8, no? Juri> This face is used by `tab-bar-format-global' that has nothing to = do Juri> with the mode line, so inheriting from `mode-line' makes no sense. Surely other items in the mode-line use the `mode-line' face already, why is this one different? Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 03:51:27 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 07:51:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60485 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkv9-0005zb-5j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:51:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkv6-0005zN-NA for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:51:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkv1-0006QZ-Er; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:51:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=iQb/IigLopeWOxSrLnpjBu4wdPfnQkgokJ0Ou/ONdS4=; b=BDH05EG0JiQF 5Nv54ZX14x71zD5g58Kj/vijbOiZ3zU8I8t/yUTM5v+Pkp4u8EV58HqTvz9LS9CA2/ICY2Qb7hTdc TVrrwY1KppOgqGy+XPIklAJxTJX/IaptEbDlnpY878tFWn5h6mZtltttOknmv27KeqNNgX9x4Aih8 PosZO+GtHWOMMxh9HZPMN5EI0JhUY5uZkv07QcHBR1Nj+7fAG98H21Ovi++IlqMf1EGVxheKj/g0O xPghUv7T8IX1B7sw4PTALe01oIZN2GdEQHio2JCPR+++B4BVvrzxUQa+Cp5SeO+VG0GLK60wxrNfN rZkNfypjwNlLoMYSVnehyg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMkv0-0006Fi-TI; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:51:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 10:51:55 +0300 Message-Id: <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:37:30 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:37:30 +0300 > > This change broke display of `display-time-date-and-time' on the tab-bar: > > diff --git a/lisp/time.el b/lisp/time.el > index 522bec46ac6..0184f96fcc2 100644 > --- a/lisp/time.el > +++ b/lisp/time.el > @@ -141,6 +141,7 @@ display-time-mail-face > (defface display-time-date-and-time nil > "Face for `display-time-format'." > + '((t (:inherit mode-line))) > :group 'mode-line-faces > :version "30.1") > > This face is used by `tab-bar-format-global' that has nothing to do > with the mode line, so inheriting from `mode-line' makes no sense. ??? It is AFAIU used whenever display-time-mode shows the time when display-time-day-and-date is non-nil. Where this is shown doesn't matter, and by default this is shown on the mode line. Thus "makes no sense" sounds somewhat harsh to me. But feel free to change the face definition as you see fit. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 04:23:57 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 08:23:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60527 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMlQa-0006qM-Qz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:23:57 -0400 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:47353) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMlQY-0006q7-6k for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:23:54 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BD388C0005; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:23:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 10:51:55 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:13 +0300 Message-ID: <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Mauro Aranda X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> This change broke display of `display-time-date-and-time' on the tab-bar: >> >> diff --git a/lisp/time.el b/lisp/time.el >> index 522bec46ac6..0184f96fcc2 100644 >> --- a/lisp/time.el >> +++ b/lisp/time.el >> @@ -141,6 +141,7 @@ display-time-mail-face >> (defface display-time-date-and-time nil >> "Face for `display-time-format'." >> + '((t (:inherit mode-line))) >> :group 'mode-line-faces >> :version "30.1") >> >> This face is used by `tab-bar-format-global' that has nothing to do >> with the mode line, so inheriting from `mode-line' makes no sense. > > ??? It is AFAIU used whenever display-time-mode shows the time when > display-time-day-and-date is non-nil. Where this is shown doesn't > matter, and by default this is shown on the mode line. Thus "makes no > sense" sounds somewhat harsh to me. Sorry, I agree it makes sense when shown on the mode line. > But feel free to change the face definition as you see fit. It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, not to fix it. Maybe Mauro could help to fix it (Cc'ed) without requiring non-nil definitions that anyway can not be fixed outside of the Emacs source tree, i.e. in numerous user init files and external packages. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 04:24:03 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 08:24:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60531 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMlQh-0006r4-4b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:24:03 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::221]:32909) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMlQb-0006qA-NA for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:24:02 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B41F240005; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:23:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <87sf9hog8g.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:50:39 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87sf9hog8g.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:52 +0300 Message-ID: <864jlx4r6z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> This change broke display of `display-time-date-and-time' on the tab-bar: >> diff --git a/lisp/time.el b/lisp/time.el >> index 522bec46ac6..0184f96fcc2 100644 >> --- a/lisp/time.el >> +++ b/lisp/time.el >> @@ -141,6 +141,7 @@ display-time-mail-face >> (defface display-time-date-and-time nil >> "Face for `display-time-format'." >> + '((t (:inherit mode-line))) >> :group 'mode-line-faces >> :version "30.1") > > Thatʼs from before 5513f72d3c8, no? 5513f72d3c8 fixed a breakage, but the problem still remains. >> This face is used by `tab-bar-format-global' that has nothing to do >> with the mode line, so inheriting from `mode-line' makes no sense. > > Surely other items in the mode-line use the `mode-line' face already, > why is this one different? Because it's used on the tab bar. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 06:48:49 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 10:48:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMngj-0002Wk-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:48:49 -0400 Received: from mail-oa1-x34.google.com ([2001:4860:4864:20::34]:62473) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMngg-0002WK-9U for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:48:44 -0400 Received: by mail-oa1-x34.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1b0748bc78dso1865762fac.0 for <64759@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:48:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689936516; x=1690541316; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XOnGpe8yJIgyFgR3lGFHeGFCLpU47EkUWgNcuBQAVyo=; b=AIaKBUX/62DGT2e35ze3fZGIDOkYm75StjesjJt5I0JLqmwRKVI1YSsgEDxETBh40C prv2fXtaZVgYaQeHj9/dJvbPjgh+oNvR5mAeGLHWH52x+N9gjms3sOOnv3OsGz5n2Non QEPDBbvdbM0mh3FiTchaY3tXYxbSEhCzdllnC/5ESHPnZLAYd+cEbPbXE36wRejz06cM v/TlYUx97acEUVT9CBcqDvSjeSFOl22f5mPlPjIm6CYk6IIcwNq2+JtCAv1kwZJgu6u7 OvldvuMizCvPg3dHVdOQ4Rgy1TiFBPeSTDZG5sqgyNbu/0BzdqD6TQulCctrp+l9QMVs ansQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689936516; x=1690541316; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XOnGpe8yJIgyFgR3lGFHeGFCLpU47EkUWgNcuBQAVyo=; b=ByeoOdVSDsqt1W3dF7aVq45xch9c2JgjgVA4+JViwtUs9d9mH7qkWel92hVVkLch7j ZDPI0uAid2ATLUHXfWoKhN2mFMZdzr2Mjsz/ktlvqfr7fCHw2Cy7b0/9YmtOyJBG8j9P PPn5KTNUhHMvrj7hRfol14OqgS5h0DDpqZaRKgDbsMQY9giO+RyMCSma/6F6i5UgY8T6 EHAv80bmA4hJRmT7HZY3sU8q8AzUi2n9B1zZQD1T4+qet2U+/JdgM8CK8Od0gyUVnrjA M+vd5liQVZYr67ULa2zrRNXs9TTuzZhwZXbNgUr4KjiPxK2qRB4HNgTuNytdT6G4w/8x 7WeA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLb/8fDIRg8G/hODhy/A9fJu/zXz8YovCxRm9oT7pPaxpNFjxkss t5VIyC48BWCic97IYr7hKQ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlFLHDfAYfbXNUBRUVP4KdUY3mNr6RRDgU3D4+o5GgxHkYypqthbbv8AFCbm4ee0qYDp8gsOjA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:b22:b0:1b0:4349:b825 with SMTP id fq34-20020a0568710b2200b001b04349b825mr1780917oab.21.1689936516314; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.234] ([186.127.128.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f4-20020a056870548400b001b47092ff68sm1393567oan.16.2023.07.21.03.48.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jul 2023 03:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:48:30 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces To: Juri Linkov References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Language: en-US From: Mauro Aranda In-Reply-To: <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) Juri Linkov writes: > It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 > were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, > not to fix it. > > Maybe Mauro could help to fix it (Cc'ed) > without requiring non-nil definitions > that anyway can not be fixed outside of > the Emacs source tree, i.e. in numerous > user init files and external packages. I don't think it is a bug in Custom.  Custom will allow the user to edit the face and set/save or whatever, even if it's definition is (defface foo nil "...") But it seems to me that it's better to define it like this: (defface foo '((t nil)) "...") so that the face gets a face-defface-spec property. So maybe the definition for display-time-date-and-time should be changed to: (defface display-time-date-and-time   '((t nil))   "Face for `display-time-format'."   :group 'mode-line-faces   :version "30.1") instead that making it inherit from mode-line? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 06:53:07 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 10:53:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60664 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnkw-0002dy-Up for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:53:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnku-0002dV-Tw for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:53:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnkp-0004vQ-4W; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:52:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2p9YdH++bzgnhxXgXYdPp/XK9eO6ZvBx2tYxRZ4Kcu8=; b=THY75na/YwEb lvDN9RfVff9y5pZKLwvXsCQG1G3pVatbEpRxKNYrHqWT1rakCKmA9XlGfKWiZwb7JnwxbhVNzoAD3 cs3L3I/uDIvtPrtu0LozMoVyLResRP6mtHc7b627Ssa4gN5Xi401K5D3/Ex3jVadbwx9GWFebHIjE Xw2wGS5zv4hgwiNYxusX9gSzeMYit1//KUqOTIJjKzApFiYG5Umx1JYcGYkB/IHGTOaZMNpF6EQE1 t7wKOTTbsDX7jROhJteLg1Wj4RVe28zqThh8mc57n2g8Jk/LWJgG/V0qPG/gxFkYHk4q8UZbXkOj8 JoM7ZsxQMZT0TkO5+gXJHQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnkj-0002Ag-UF; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:52:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:53:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkg51qom.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:13 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Mauro Aranda > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:13 +0300 > > It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 > were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, > not to fix it. I don't think it's a bug. Why is it a bug to tell the user that the face has no information to show as the current definition? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 06:54:21 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 10:54:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnm9-0002fu-By for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:54:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnm7-0002fg-Nw for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:54:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnm1-000587-TW; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:54:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Lz5GcZ0CJkgkERmgxOtG7QVOJhQsx0C8SEun64LLHRY=; b=Pxa9JmnUo/5F IGjNn4mvAiETXZ5WgQMGoJBNwLciIfDfr1Mh5yJsjpMlPnBFfPXzMJHrqQ7ii59lmtp03ytApyAh7 9KLnPib19HerbkTTinum9EDpeOYBg0AN/6k6sWiB96J2hYehQchP1BBR8WyNRE2rkUFpgpZK9azrX cDUrLn1Ow+z2i5nuG+9BFXU9/0VG9IneviClJ+K6tb9U3SZSnGc+x0ijFY4Sn+X6EUh4/YRghl7de gE7nA3FEgzunjCBlUfutk7kyTrIKUNp88xPJ5ytk4tfx/LnH5uvXlxbjpLj/bWy/7nxZBVzuyIpiO ra02FwmOab2erBg6XdYrVQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnll-0002pi-FH; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:54:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:54:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5vp1qmu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:13 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Mauro Aranda > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:13 +0300 > > It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 > were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, > not to fix it. I don't think it's a bug. Why is it a bug to tell the user that the face has no information to show as the current definition? Moreover, what does it mean to have nil there in defface? The meaning of nil is not documented anywhere that I could see, so what did the authors of such code expect it to produce? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 06:55:57 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 10:55:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60674 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnng-0002iM-Qe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:55:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53930) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnne-0002i6-TV for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:55:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnnZ-0005oH-2F; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:55:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=0wze41+aYGxeeErK6Aj+nZM2gZkOODDGGE4Jm4I0OA0=; b=gHownhX1fbcF hbOWbvS8DiTfTO47vd4qUvVwssiGvAy8KRSctUae1jrn29Z2Cn6cdGhAwcyqmiaOlkNBDeIW4UPIb Dx2yFf9WUYmhp1sw7QHon/apyAjdxN6one5Z4PGm9cusLrdpG/ZaqvDefGPJh0fYOKu5XNMM4XW/x qgPCC+Q8g0gahYyLWrHnkuSHvATf2WNwreU8LBZFA5lSZ0tYnHGFdJC+I7w2LU4TC6LQRxSsQO8ru DnfSBrTMokrVKzsAHFlWVHt+PgWmUtkPkdPnL1aQsebifzbloKTzElqZncjLgWWxHVQAZ90eGNZ5C I1VQJVtTDiz7kGgEj1luyA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMnnP-0003fa-He; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:55:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:56:15 +0300 Message-Id: <838rb91qk0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <864jlx4r6z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:52 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87sf9hog8g.fsf@gmail.com> <864jlx4r6z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:13:52 +0300 > > Because it's used on the tab bar. Then perhaps tab-bar.el should define its own face for that, and apply it when displaying time there. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 12:22:44 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 16:22:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34718 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMstw-0006if-At for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:22:44 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:60491) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMstu-0006iQ-I9 for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:22:43 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9562840004; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 16:22:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83a5vp1qmu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:54:33 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a5vp1qmu.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:20:44 +0300 Message-ID: <86r0p11bj7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 >> were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, >> not to fix it. > > I don't think it's a bug. Why is it a bug to tell the user that the > face has no information to show as the current definition? How this is different from a variable that has a nil value? The Customization UI can handle it. > Moreover, what does it mean to have nil there in defface? The > meaning of nil is not documented anywhere that I could see, so what > did the authors of such code expect it to produce? Why not nil? Every variable supports a nil value. Why can't faces do the same? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 12:22:49 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 16:22:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMsu1-0006iy-IZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:22:49 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::227]:57765) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMstz-0006iX-Ql for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:22:48 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB1E02000A; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 16:22:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Mauro Aranda Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: (Mauro Aranda's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:48:30 -0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:21:40 +0300 Message-ID: <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > But it seems to me that it's better to define it like this: > (defface foo '((t nil)) "...") > so that the face gets a face-defface-spec property. > > So maybe the definition for display-time-date-and-time should be changed > to: > (defface display-time-date-and-time >   '((t nil)) >   "Face for `display-time-format'." >   :group 'mode-line-faces >   :version "30.1") > > instead that making it inherit from mode-line? Thanks, I confirm that '((t nil)) solves this problem. If a nil value can't be supported for faces, then let's use '((t nil)). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 12:39:09 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 16:39:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34738 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMt9o-000783-SO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:39:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMt9n-00077p-AD for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:39:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMt9c-0005JQ-Tl; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:39:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2QlGk48a8MlvBjCRLQ40aBAl6KoJbGLsf3eJ56WlX0o=; b=WqZU05MBvKJp KJdNY+5CEM/Cd/UAVUuKBmvBiUb+YgqTiv67cmnQ0QsmwmW4dKLimnOJ1nTPZslsGc5xPsuRT/nXX smTwgcTRfXdSEy/qg7Q1je1/ve63TmnjXONip4lLh9R03g7eo3ZFR4Ro6W2p8sC/O0RqIJPBQLvI5 kKbKgpKbob3bj3KXBZBdCvtKFC02t4vD3CotfROtvmp2QKdID9pcVnHjX+pFjRaJQ10vpb9WFaMks cknivEQMyavlOf30Ruj4gZ7eVMa7MggC426cfEuxFVB0OnRCpKMM7fWu1xHkvIxAbquaE9hiaBtkn up5VrqxqRUqppJ0Npi0kQw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMt9c-0006CS-DN; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:38:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:39:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83sf9h9q2i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86r0p11bj7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:20:44 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a5vp1qmu.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0p11bj7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:20:44 +0300 > > >> It seems adding non-empty definitions in bug#64655 > >> were intended to workaround a bug in cus-edit.el, > >> not to fix it. > > > > I don't think it's a bug. Why is it a bug to tell the user that the > > face has no information to show as the current definition? > > How this is different from a variable that has a nil value? > The Customization UI can handle it. It can and it does. Emacs doesn't signal an error and doesn't crash. So there's no problem, just unexpected info. > > Moreover, what does it mean to have nil there in defface? The > > meaning of nil is not documented anywhere that I could see, so what > > did the authors of such code expect it to produce? > > Why not nil? Every variable supports a nil value. Why can't faces > do the same? I don't know, but the documentation says nothing about the semantics of that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 12:40:09 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 16:40:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34749 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMtAn-0007A4-5O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:40:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMtAk-00079Y-OO for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:40:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMtAf-0005PK-18; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:40:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Bn6fdMJd0K9hJxsdU7NGfQwtJrDrrs0S6xuvtKBKXQU=; b=SSw3Y1wKMBkg 5dsh34aFjY+DcS8kMUKUmIbrnBfL3dFdlqQO2rx4yksFKyzKofH4tceRb3zItz5CN+wBvKNWdZ9xy 5oSYCIi4MimsvvOSFp2DW4AY99JwlXzZGd8NP1nq609ePqU1N2FB6cy+6wA9i3ApoT5nZf9Im4qWm 7QfMOxwpxVW8U/Xx43hRugiztPcRvA/kRaE7D9XjzUP8tNN48f9boTsBX1Cgrl3RMfTZkIJ8thInE 42EfRBCSlYVuMca9PG+wPG16y16mfBX9Ih0C8hevgoanZ7QkAO48WpgEEXBpuPYHlPZEwYWEyox27 OcRC0/bw3DrIbk5puTywOQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMtAd-0006GF-NA; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:40:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:40:36 +0300 Message-Id: <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:21:40 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:21:40 +0300 > > Thanks, I confirm that '((t nil)) solves this problem. > If a nil value can't be supported for faces, then > let's use '((t nil)). What do you expect this to produce for the face attributes? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 13:53:05 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 17:53:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuJN-0000qo-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:53:05 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:33285) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuJJ-0000qC-FQ for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 13:53:03 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69C8EFF804; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 17:52:53 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:40:36 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 20:51:57 +0300 Message-ID: <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> Thanks, I confirm that '((t nil)) solves this problem. >> If a nil value can't be supported for faces, then >> let's use '((t nil)). > > What do you expect this to produce for the face attributes? Let's see: when the definition is (defface display-time-date-and-time nil "Face for `display-time-format'." :group 'mode-line-faces :version "30.1") then the customization buffer is Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. Face for ‘display-time-format’. -- Empty face -- Show All Attributes But when the definition is (defface display-time-date-and-time '((t nil)) "Face for `display-time-format'." :group 'mode-line-faces :version "30.1") the customization buffer is Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] State : STANDARD. Face for ‘display-time-format’. -- Empty face -- Show All Attributes Looks nice. No strange error message about not intended to be customized. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 14:34:41 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 18:34:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuxd-0001q6-KI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:34:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49272) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuxa-0001pr-Jy for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:34:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuxU-0002tM-Qn; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:34:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=TpjbxU0WOBe3QFNGxTfKHohaMKF10KMKVgvrHwGyWcs=; b=ZBieBhAbYgVKDD0w8aB6 YWzSNGlsZjrSd7+lMt8yDDBsCmHhO/o/2j1wDvKeltyQy+8FZnvhtkhe3YsEFB4uufhJyRKrCzY7k FMFohl2ptyXU2eBhGsN9LInVbv1PwtQoUZkK7wDZO0/Gn7zZCuygHGKKsKMXGPJiq3BQxOXht8NW6 07qYH6d9ENkQBOptSFRKa2FQM4jP1sXGpVSwhOi8pMxbgTMcDMuVNKKfVwar4MpJ3iXl/67zDU8tE 4TclBOZ9JfjNBdEt6xv5K1rNgMGdbLS9lhRa0uhy9QL1yu/dDuUjHMUvr4NTDVM/H0Hl4G0NBj36x jQkvk4QO91ncNw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMuxU-0008Ty-9p; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:34:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:35:08 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 20:51:57 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 20:51:57 +0300 > > >> Thanks, I confirm that '((t nil)) solves this problem. > >> If a nil value can't be supported for faces, then > >> let's use '((t nil)). > > > > What do you expect this to produce for the face attributes? > > Let's see: when the definition is > > (defface display-time-date-and-time > nil > "Face for `display-time-format'." > :group 'mode-line-faces > :version "30.1") > > then the customization buffer is > > Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] > State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. > Face for ‘display-time-format’. > -- Empty face -- > Show All Attributes > > But when the definition is > > (defface display-time-date-and-time > '((t nil)) > "Face for `display-time-format'." > :group 'mode-line-faces > :version "30.1") > > the customization buffer is > > Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] > State : STANDARD. > Face for ‘display-time-format’. > -- Empty face -- > Show All Attributes > > Looks nice. No strange error message about not intended to be customized. That's not what I asked. I asked about the face attributes. IOW, isn't (defface display-time-date-and-time '((t nil)) "Face for `display-time-format'." :group 'mode-line-faces :version "30.1") the same as (defface display-time-date-and-time '((t (:inherit default))) "Face for `display-time-format'." :group 'mode-line-faces :version "30.1") ? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 14:50:16 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 18:50:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34875 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvCi-0002HZ-Gk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:50:16 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:34459) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvCf-0002HK-Ej for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:50:15 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5832C240002; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:50:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:35:08 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:49:13 +0300 Message-ID: <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> Let's see: when the definition is >> >> (defface display-time-date-and-time >> nil >> "Face for `display-time-format'." >> :group 'mode-line-faces >> :version "30.1") >> >> then the customization buffer is >> >> Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] >> State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. >> Face for ‘display-time-format’. >> -- Empty face -- >> Show All Attributes >> >> But when the definition is >> >> (defface display-time-date-and-time >> '((t nil)) >> "Face for `display-time-format'." >> :group 'mode-line-faces >> :version "30.1") >> >> the customization buffer is >> >> Hide display-time-date-and-time face: [sample] >> State : STANDARD. >> Face for ‘display-time-format’. >> -- Empty face -- >> Show All Attributes >> >> Looks nice. No strange error message about not intended to be customized. > > That's not what I asked. I asked about the face attributes. > > IOW, isn't > > (defface display-time-date-and-time > '((t nil)) > "Face for `display-time-format'." > :group 'mode-line-faces > :version "30.1") > > the same as > > (defface display-time-date-and-time > '((t (:inherit default))) > "Face for `display-time-format'." > :group 'mode-line-faces > :version "30.1") > > ? No, it's not the same. The latter uses a white background on the mode line. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 21 14:54:53 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2023 18:54:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvHB-0002Ns-F2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:54:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56016) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvH9-0002Nd-Cu for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:54:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvH3-00061Y-I5; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:54:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Q2uKUHJE4rZKbC5/pBDXsGHcS1YRY/AfuCr0lRGnBEo=; b=hXGIKXP8i/j4 A/WywyhP8LFydyesKyJ9CRhL1sOzRvnH3AdJ1HdwHJ5MNRdQMtYH/avlCdyRWrjFsR6WsrIAkdApg PgWDUCTEDFtSyHeJdJ2IsaApxbD3JnM+170sQiQsFpUlRUliIinO1yqte7h2WVgR5BjW4DOM42BA3 qUmovwUsMKpmbfTOF77EUnvlQLNPoB51+WIp1Ec6Zehmo1dw9WXlS/MskHehtovSfxtjxrqkYD8+R hpEoOPNbLVJ6TbHvfrllxKmgECVyj8c9PkwL9l+psv/TWosJ75Gg4LRjVpsBP01HPzcxEKl5Wmv18 oQHGntuJMbCwNdbdzlhf2w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMvH2-0001he-Rz; Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:54:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:55:20 +0300 Message-Id: <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:49:13 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:49:13 +0300 > > No, it's not the same. The latter uses a white background on the mode line. So I ask again: what is the semantics of nil in this case? We cannot have in Emacs something that triggers undefined behavior, let alone use it in our own sources. The semantics of this must be known and documented before we can use it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 24 13:37:25 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2023 17:37:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNzUq-0006Yq-OI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:37:25 -0400 Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::228]:39957) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNzUh-0006YA-4d for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:37:16 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 54C931BF206; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 17:37:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:55:20 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 20:35:17 +0300 Message-ID: <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> No, it's not the same. The latter uses a white background on the mode line. > > So I ask again: what is the semantics of nil in this case? We cannot > have in Emacs something that triggers undefined behavior, let alone > use it in our own sources. The semantics of this must be known and > documented before we can use it. The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). Do you agree that currently the value '((t nil)) should be used for faces without default face attributes? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 24 14:20:32 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2023 18:20:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qO0Aa-0001kQ-Co for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qO0AX-0001kC-P6 for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 14:20:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qO0AS-0008Q1-HO; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 14:20:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=K0OuxXI7nN7NiV+aJDBpjnOBUbY0zZTyVb07q+mAlyM=; b=Wlo1ZI4LLJU5 m9UfZrFMwfaHbdv5kZ0ZgVavANotAUWGCMLgmx9MjZ2YlrPUrvj0lpIrlzNCr/Ui4VwDfXxzhg6CJ 5YrI0jzs1y/6c12mYC4BAkrs2miiEjoZXP9mt0Wu+E/Vo0fDf8hafu2QmNUej93waEQaiNgy9OTq/ zw+2aM1/e6zxdyMRmdHcfFn3DAthQ4c4Tt2x4S9uHUy9pPslt9W2xi5jGYKtNALyMbLTbuvlLtoRX 0Eg8RkY2yLrmezMcOMT8dYiJLqYlzAx0PZtEeDad/Qtt1lNasR25Q6Ygdf6z6UCPXdzEfz0fGNvg2 3hX7CYPJJd3tt9xJGNBo4Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qO0AS-0002gd-15; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 14:20:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 21:21:08 +0300 Message-Id: <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 24 Jul 2023 20:35:17 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 20:35:17 +0300 > > >> No, it's not the same. The latter uses a white background on the mode line. > > > > So I ask again: what is the semantics of nil in this case? We cannot > > have in Emacs something that triggers undefined behavior, let alone > > use it in our own sources. The semantics of this must be known and > > documented before we can use it. > > The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the face have when realized? > Do you agree that currently the value '((t nil)) > should be used for faces without default face attributes? Yes, I think so. If no better face to inherit from is available in each such case, that is. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 25 13:05:24 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2023 17:05:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOLTP-0004Fe-US for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:05:24 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::227]:57813) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOLTO-0004FN-Lm for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:05:23 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ECE872000C; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 17:05:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 24 Jul 2023 21:21:08 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:04:16 +0300 Message-ID: <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). > > And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the > face have when realized? No attributes. This is the standard value used by empty faces. >> Do you agree that currently the value '((t nil)) >> should be used for faces without default face attributes? > > Yes, I think so. If no better face to inherit from is available in > each such case, that is. This means these faces should have by default '((t nil)): semantic-decoration-on-includes, shr-h4, shr-h5, shr-h6, nxml-text, nxml-delimiter, nxml-element-colon, makefile-shell as before? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 25 13:43:14 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2023 17:43:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46887 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOM41-0007hD-Ul for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:43:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46656) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qOM40-0007h0-4r for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:43:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOM3u-0004sS-BQ; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:43:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=aDxTn5rZ802Toq8hZkrPi6X373fbCe/VPUetlbkTrEY=; b=rnawAMrIR7gf AVQlZMcptJ12xySonRQ5tVncBT0WOLAJZU7oR3o89gMb8t9QByIy6T+TYYjFzQCm7PJm4a+PNUiTs FrpoxC2auaLF98KZz8F5is6gVp9aeS81shn6SIzYMRsleXJqGFmdWz7A0JTjoAj9XQ6BeYAdBzdEh 1RowUIRutlJjUwLS1vzHXy/XdrUP1LNSWkSzG4r6sfkNabZSWlMPZSBfQ+A8OQ3ZU2654ziZ4o8KC l7u5NXC7rFqJhwbk8T79jJdf+21pKrH9/tMkbFs3+brf/eZCPG+1ovRCGAM0M3zXeur3PGSnN49fp qJh1hH2SabQbE1TZeC1Yug==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qOM3t-0006fp-Cy; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 13:43:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:43:51 +0300 Message-Id: <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:04:16 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:04:16 +0300 > > >> The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). > > > > And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the > > face have when realized? > > No attributes. This is the standard value used by empty faces. What does this mean? For example, what would be the foreground color? what would be the font? etc. I'm not familiar with "empty face" notion. A face always has attributes when it is fully realized, otherwise Emacs will be unable to use it. > >> Do you agree that currently the value '((t nil)) > >> should be used for faces without default face attributes? > > > > Yes, I think so. If no better face to inherit from is available in > > each such case, that is. > > This means these faces should have by default '((t nil)): > semantic-decoration-on-includes, shr-h4, shr-h5, shr-h6, > nxml-text, nxml-delimiter, nxml-element-colon, makefile-shell > as before? Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why the faces I put there are not better ideas. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 28 13:38:10 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2023 17:38:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46076 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPRPl-0001ff-LU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:38:10 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::229]:47069) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPRPk-0001fH-HY for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:38:08 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A47E6FF802; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 17:38:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 25 Jul 2023 20:43:51 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:30:44 +0300 Message-ID: <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> >> The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). >> > >> > And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the >> > face have when realized? >> >> No attributes. This is the standard value used by empty faces. > > What does this mean? For example, what would be the foreground color? > what would be the font? etc. No foreground color, and no font. > I'm not familiar with "empty face" notion. A face always has > attributes when it is fully realized, otherwise Emacs will be unable > to use it. "Empty face" is the standard notion. Here's an example how it's used: 1. M-x make-empty-face RET foo RET 2. M-x customize-face RET foo RET Then output is: Hide Foo face: [sample] State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. nil -- Empty face -- >> >> Do you agree that currently the value '((t nil)) >> >> should be used for faces without default face attributes? >> > >> > Yes, I think so. If no better face to inherit from is available in >> > each such case, that is. >> >> This means these faces should have by default '((t nil)): >> semantic-decoration-on-includes, shr-h4, shr-h5, shr-h6, >> nxml-text, nxml-delimiter, nxml-element-colon, makefile-shell >> as before? > > Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those > cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why > the faces I put there are not better ideas. Because they will cause the same problem as with display-time-date-and-time, except that other faces are used less often, so it will take time until users will notice these problems. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 28 14:49:05 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2023 18:49:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46127 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWP-0003XC-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:49:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWN-0003Wd-Sx for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:49:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWH-000282-Pj; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:48:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=uIJUispzmahQwLzCPmQpL/QSedM1NlwjAqcmfu+R2Tc=; b=Svp45G5HbuSt Ueil55vARR734ZGvAZbkugPMV34tQPU8Jhd95+5dSQPH4rNqPA47VyH7vUmtgpvdd2PGASyZ9i1Mp cqTTyC8onjGffXO8zWWVZUY+hOrBv4NnkBmFwFEEA2AAvgCAqii+HirfBCEr5tBlGeg/IxGrnIfsG hUdO/bIHnZXh41tmg69805RC6+Prirxuf4DYspDKRN44wzxUWqYZKQcdt3W/MzlKw1Ari7PD0kpzh CljUwIX+nIYNU7oHqy/qrX7Mp2kLLHp+IsxpVwywBC30FnpTn+DRtxHtKnRDzorOlxl0s64a34G4V ueDRBktcwmDUHoUWQnv8IA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWH-00017a-9M; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:48:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 21:49:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:30:44 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:30:44 +0300 > > >> >> The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). > >> > > >> > And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the > >> > face have when realized? > >> > >> No attributes. This is the standard value used by empty faces. > > > > What does this mean? For example, what would be the foreground color? > > what would be the font? etc. > > No foreground color, and no font. There can be no such face. > > I'm not familiar with "empty face" notion. A face always has > > attributes when it is fully realized, otherwise Emacs will be unable > > to use it. > > "Empty face" is the standard notion. Here's an example how it's used: > > 1. M-x make-empty-face RET foo RET > 2. M-x customize-face RET foo RET > > Then output is: > > Hide Foo face: [sample] > State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. > nil > -- Empty face -- We are mis-communicating. My point is that we need to explain in the documentation the effect of such a defface when the face is realized and displayed. Lisp programmers need to understand that to be able to use this correctly and predictably. > > Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those > > cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why > > the faces I put there are not better ideas. > > Because they will cause the same problem as with display-time-date-and-time, > except that other faces are used less often, so it will take time until users > will notice these problems. display-time-date-and-time is used on the mode line, where the colors are different. The other faces are for buffer text, so the problems with display-time-date-and-time don't necessarily apply. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 31 13:45:09 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2023 17:45:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53501 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQWxB-0006fL-0h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:45:09 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:32943) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQWx9-0006et-LL for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:45:08 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 87A931C0003; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 17:44:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces In-Reply-To: <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 28 Jul 2023 21:49:49 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 20:42:22 +0300 Message-ID: <863514asg1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> 1. M-x make-empty-face RET foo RET >> 2. M-x customize-face RET foo RET >> >> Then output is: >> >> Hide Foo face: [sample] >> State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. Please note that the problem is still unfixed for "NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA". >> nil >> -- Empty face -- > > We are mis-communicating. My point is that we need to explain in the > documentation the effect of such a defface when the face is realized > and displayed. Lisp programmers need to understand that to be able to > use this correctly and predictably. For example, in *scratch* eval: (put-text-property (point-min) (point-max) 'font-lock-face (make-empty-face 'foo)) Then 'C-u C-x =' shows: There are text properties here: font-lock-face foo Then clicking on 'foo' shows: Face: foo (sample) (customize this face) Documentation: Not documented as a face. Family: unspecified Foundry: unspecified Width: unspecified Height: unspecified Weight: unspecified Slant: unspecified Foreground: unspecified DistantForeground: unspecified Background: unspecified Underline: unspecified Overline: unspecified Strike-through: unspecified Box: unspecified Inverse: unspecified Stipple: unspecified Font: unspecified Fontset: unspecified Extend: unspecified Inherit: unspecified That's all that Lisp programmers need to know: that in an empty face all attributes are unspecified. >> > Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those >> > cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why >> > the faces I put there are not better ideas. >> >> Because they will cause the same problem as with display-time-date-and-time, >> except that other faces are used less often, so it will take time until users >> will notice these problems. > > display-time-date-and-time is used on the mode line, where the colors > are different. The other faces are for buffer text, so the problems > with display-time-date-and-time don't necessarily apply. It's possible that these faces are applied over other faces that will break the default theme. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 31 14:32:02 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2023 18:32:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53567 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQXgX-0007uk-Qa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:32:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQXgV-0007uD-Ai for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:32:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qQXgO-0007nX-Tr; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:31:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=PCTYA3ONeq3OYYIAg0pmF0Pj8az/nJRmtj5/Y65Jsfw=; b=TlYi8foJCeuJ x51XMEEyLXk5JOD2WCZfuZCCemEKGXb/bNSM7RU6oY+HF6laAO9K4iusHQ4n8SZQwqBySYbaB45PD xogekCmC6cPbtaIy9eJxB//G9/p1F2fP+ZiKJWVY7r4jeE1342Hswmig6ymKs1vd1ob3Y7P34vlDN ReHDtOdmMf+9xmKJu3k4X9sKDzJ9VGMFzuPG0nlAoI5CbHUuffDQfFlmisKTT+74blf7ksS52NM1z GUDB0+lKGck2xRBWO+akUYq2o6m+DOzNmsMhKtZBRKrzD0k2yOteLyupBqqyxXJqXxcAzu1Flj25S yZRjRNNoh4joiHjiQuYbsg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qQXgO-000614-AM; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:31:52 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 21:31:54 +0300 Message-Id: <83zg3c0w6d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <863514asg1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 31 Jul 2023 20:42:22 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> <863514asg1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 20:42:22 +0300 > > Then clicking on 'foo' shows: > > Face: foo (sample) (customize this face) > Documentation: > Not documented as a face. > Family: unspecified > Foundry: unspecified > Width: unspecified > Height: unspecified > Weight: unspecified > Slant: unspecified > Foreground: unspecified > DistantForeground: unspecified > Background: unspecified > Underline: unspecified > Overline: unspecified > Strike-through: unspecified > Box: unspecified > Inverse: unspecified > Stipple: unspecified > Font: unspecified > Fontset: unspecified > Extend: unspecified > Inherit: unspecified > > That's all that Lisp programmers need to know: that in an empty face > all attributes are unspecified. See, I don't think this is accurate. I think the result depends on the default attributes, the ones you can change by using set-face-attribute with FRAME set to t. > >> > Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those > >> > cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why > >> > the faces I put there are not better ideas. > >> > >> Because they will cause the same problem as with display-time-date-and-time, > >> except that other faces are used less often, so it will take time until users > >> will notice these problems. > > > > display-time-date-and-time is used on the mode line, where the colors > > are different. The other faces are for buffer text, so the problems > > with display-time-date-and-time don't necessarily apply. > > It's possible that these faces are applied over other faces > that will break the default theme. Such use of these faces only makes sense if the face is customized to have some attributes different from the defaults. The intention of the default definition of these faces is to make them look no different from the default face. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 31 16:38:07 2023 Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2023 20:38:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53610 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQZeY-0002Xl-SM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 16:38:07 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-x22a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22a]:54430) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qQZeX-0002XJ-QI for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 16:38:06 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3a426e70575so2876425b6e.0 for <64759@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:38:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1690835880; x=1691440680; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+JZumxLMzBkFr8tMG/obzO5/V6XdRdoK+qVQrnX+Wh8=; b=qmdInMO068tHI1RkhFFwE8PcHfR72sq4mjU95Fgtt3hNlI4bLUZghkiTJSMSZyFow4 /dwKa8c/9PKvJsyo2XHMhfqZ5kuW4e7zWXrfXjI0lMVzmdXw0D4OFT902FByjNzEurX+ 7GfS+dfsh8dhKTtkIekMJchmgJ5JulhCSKngSUnyRXnUPIjq0tzkxT7Q6mPB9BS3/Ex/ PDcanT8ULdtPvskXsPvHG8SLiGNl3z7ORwtWLWJEbHPv4N/F5cF64AC7acFmqeCnyVdE bhNGGQEv8yYwhkqmu/pylqeiMLeQ04Y56f6aM1eNBscc8+hpKkliug9n7PQUZvKY1P5z VnpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1690835880; x=1691440680; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+JZumxLMzBkFr8tMG/obzO5/V6XdRdoK+qVQrnX+Wh8=; b=ADkPwt4fE6owiC3MSWdMRziuG/1FZwuHHz2tmLvkEFiojYS3Ffy3FwErgn+SS7MJYW nmm57XyX7j6eDJy58NvDK7zyLIT8SnUVMoEpnuR2RlICnLHLijbcPIRre5m4NAwA5RGC FixSO+CbU9hvuDaX5fSIpdNJ/jzwYjoa+/uuU0O+PbwNCmvvlhTRmMAaitda4zJj7Cjc 0lUkSKtyi8z8P0VbQhQ9/34oGOb42mQoRPgu+DSi7k+0irqjdaMxUHyUd3q8B7qwltZR h6F2vztlZsmk79/+Yn1hZPLR+pNBVwSTXt5sULdoeR63pINuS9Aut3YkBRXOHt/vAOs1 hBSg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLazEa5YJy9MfxdD0p1zm8nOj3JQkZsqZqWw/PtpaSIte5o3IpBi vswRfefCohzyrHvIkRipq74= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlEWaiw1pK6XQrZdt3LUzvRtXNldzU53zvlmJn06+JrTGV0uSlERyPB49GvUF3Eg6LaAwW+05w== X-Received: by 2002:aca:1c13:0:b0:39c:93e7:d5b0 with SMTP id c19-20020aca1c13000000b0039c93e7d5b0mr9983892oic.21.1690835880054; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.234] ([186.127.128.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r40-20020a056808212800b003a741f617a1sm649190oiw.36.2023.07.31.13.37.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2569baad-8c2a-42be-5c69-fbaf2a59a09a@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 17:37:55 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Subject: Re: bug#64759: Broken faces To: Juri Linkov References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> <863514asg1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Language: en-US From: Mauro Aranda In-Reply-To: <863514asg1.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64759 Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) Juri Linkov writes: >>> 1. M-x make-empty-face RET foo RET >>> 2. M-x customize-face RET foo RET >>> >>> Then output is: >>> >>>   Hide Foo face: [sample] >>>       State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. > > Please note that the problem is still unfixed for > "NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA". > I don't think this is a problem.  defface wasn't used here, so the face might not be intended to be customized.