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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) It seems to me that the doc, including in the Elisp manual, doesn't make clear that, by default, `completing-read' automatically adds the list of all completions provided by the completion table to the list of defaults, just after the default value. That is, by default, it calls `minibuffer-default-add-completions'. This is not obvious from reading the docs. For example, it's not obvious that if you use `C-h v' and then `M-p', repeating `M-p, you get the symbols that are variables, one by one, inserted into the minibuffer. How so? Because by default variable `minibuffer-default-add-function' is `minibuffer-default-add-completions'. Again, none of this is obvious. To find it out, a user needs to check what `M-p' is bound to, then check the source code for that function, and then the source code or the doc string of function `goto-history-element', which it calls. In sum, important user-visible behavior isn't described in the manual or the "top-level", most-relevant doc strings (e.g. `completing-read'). This is a request to, somehow, make this default behavior more apparent in the doc. Thx. In GNU Emacs 29.0.91 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2023-05-14 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.3086) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation --without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 16 01:24:41 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2023 05:24:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46387 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qKuFM-0002zO-QO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 01:24:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qKuFK-0002zA-6J for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 01:24:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKuFE-0003Ka-Go; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 01:24:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mt98snj3UewwXNht2f/N2uoIIXxk6ABjXyCBKLXpSeQ=; b=ZHQX0pfq/wPG BreDJfDer6sKyj3JRjwfoJOWZCGDC84r/NuGQ2ir2g7+BzHHNwqRcIi4fBBV5KGszbl/TFimnKHz6 8fwHubHqiW/k144kjIalv0x4GLjxideXUAEG5s/Mq/snS8yUBVVDmPP68M75CHBMOm4p1aK8A3XGU JhtyucCaoXbXX1SOTyWYLz5h9/GmFskgsvNBhUcQl7YugatznKzOPGV+urVMQVT5gUCAsacgQqbbq /mrSr8cXB83aDpOl5/FT7pQcLPWpZUHRUhwHuYL0OV19WT8TD3nV7fG64+G17SOWqSaVmLe/C5G6U loXFeNzRDw3hoLJI9ipKAg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKuFE-0003kT-0s; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 01:24:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 08:24:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 15 Jul 2023 23:35:20 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 23:35:20 +0000 > > It seems to me that the doc, including in the Elisp manual, doesn't make > clear that, by default, `completing-read' automatically adds the list of > all completions provided by the completion table to the list of > defaults, just after the default value. That is, by default, it calls > `minibuffer-default-add-completions'. > > This is not obvious from reading the docs. For example, it's not > obvious that if you use `C-h v' and then `M-p', repeating `M-p, you get > the symbols that are variables, one by one, inserted into the > minibuffer. > > How so? Because by default variable `minibuffer-default-add-function' > is `minibuffer-default-add-completions'. Again, none of this is > obvious. To find it out, a user needs to check what `M-p' is bound to, > then check the source code for that function, and then the source code > or the doc string of function `goto-history-element', which it calls. > > In sum, important user-visible behavior isn't described in the manual or > the "top-level", most-relevant doc strings (e.g. `completing-read'). You have described various aspects of the implementation, but no "user-visible behavior" and no reason why it would be interesting, let alone important, to have that in the manual. Please consider changing the POV of your description so that it will be clear what important information is missing and why. The main purpose of API descriptions in the ELisp manual is to explain to Lisp programmers how to achieve this or that behavior, and I cannot bridge the gap between that goal and what you wrote. For starters, this: It seems to me that the doc, including in the Elisp manual, doesn't make clear that, by default, `completing-read' automatically adds the list of all completions provided by the completion table to the list of defaults, just after the default value. That is, by default, it calls `minibuffer-default-add-completions'. is a huge turn-off, because it talks about what the code does. After reading this, I have no idea why I would need to know these details. Why do I care that the list of all completions is added to the list of defaults? why do I care that the code calls minibuffer-default-add-completions? 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Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:40:20 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Drew Adams , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: RE: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list Thread-Topic: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list Thread-Index: Adm3dQO6x7fUknP/Q4+io7P97PcUXgAdbq+Q Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|CY5PR10MB5916:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2e3a979a-0c53-4a92-ad29-08db8602327f x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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For example, it's not > obvious that if you use `C-h v' and then `M-p', repeating `M-p, you get > the symbols that are variables, one by one, inserted into the > minibuffer. Sorry. I meant `M-n', not `M-p'. This is about automatic adding of the initial completion candidates (before any input matching) to the "future history". (But you probably understood that there was a typo.) 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bdb512ff-54df-49fa-783c-08db8609c2cb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Jul 2023 14:34:28.3955 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: CQFbgRGXVxWdTKy/Rk86ps8aJ5BAhBMXVm6pcmY8gYMC+mdJ17QtPjWkI9TmxKOUIIHxo1Q99/ItXomuZXuRoA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH7PR10MB5698 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-07-16_02,2023-07-13_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2307160138 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: CpdvvhDyCeZLk2WepVJZvIJCRfo-bmFL X-Proofpoint-GUID: CpdvvhDyCeZLk2WepVJZvIJCRfo-bmFL X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > In sum, important user-visible behavior isn't described in the manual o= r > > the "top-level", most-relevant doc strings (e.g. `completing-read'). >=20 > You have described various aspects of the implementation, but no > "user-visible behavior" and no reason why it would be interesting, let > alone important, to have that in the manual. Please consider changing > the POV of your description so that it will be clear what important > information is missing and why. The main purpose of API descriptions > in the ELisp manual is to explain to Lisp programmers how to achieve > this or that behavior, and I cannot bridge the gap between that goal > and what you wrote. There are two kinds of doc changes I'd like to see: 1. Elisp manual and Lisp description in doc strings (e.g. `completing-read', `*-history-element'). The behavior isn't documented, AFAICT. It would also make sense, I think, to say something about the "future history" in node (elisp) `Minibuffer History' - how it gets filled automatically with all of the initial completion candidates, unless you bind `minibuffer-default-add-function' to nil (or another non-function value). 2. Emacs manual and user/interactive description in doc strings. I guess I'd like to at least see #1. It isn't at all obvious what's going on. Functions such as `completing-read' give you a way to control the default or defaults provided for `M-n', but they DON'T give you a way to prevent the automatic addition of ALL of the initial completion candidates. To me that doesn't make much sense, but Lispers should at least be told this up front. Let's at least tell them they can prevent this automatic addition by binding `minibuffer-default-add-function' to nil _around_ a function such as `completing-read'. #2 is presumably less important, as long as we don't expose variable `minibuffer-default-add-function' (or similar) as a user option. E.g., currently there's no way for a user to turn off this automatic addition to the `M-n' defaults. The user visible behavior is that `M-n' inserts a default value specific to the command, OR, if var `minibuffer-default-add-function' is non-nil, a "default" value which can be ANY value from the initial completion "domain". E.g., for `C-h v' that means the name of ANY variable (source is obarray filtered for vars). And there's no user or Lisp control over the order of those additional defaults. E.g., `C-h v' adds at most a single "real" default for `M-n', and it adds ALL vars (from obarray). For the Emacs manual, node `Minibuffer History' is a good place to mention this automatic behavior that's governed by a variable. That's where "future history" is introduced for `M-n'. (FWIW, I'm not a fan of the name "future history", instead of what it used to be called: just "defaults".) There we mention where the defaults added to "future=20 history" come from, but only for file-name input. And in that case we go into detail, mentioning how to turn off this automatic addition (the variable for this is even a user option, unlike the general case, with `minibuffer-default-add-function'). > it talks about what the code does. After > reading this, I have no idea why I would need to know these details. > Why do I care that the list of all completions is added to the list of > defaults? why do I care that the code calls > minibuffer-default-add-completions? If you want to understand the Lisp code then you need this info. I guess that's my main concern. If, as a user, you want to get an idea what the `M-n' values are with, e.g., `C-h v', after seeing them present themselves in a seemingly random order, then you'd maybe like to know something about what they are and where they come from. You might just wonder if you can turn off their inclusion, since they kinda represent noise (zillions of variables in obarray, presented in no order understandable to users). Hope this clarifies the request/bug report. ___ Beyond this doc concern, I'll maybe also request (separately, in an enhancement request) that Lispers have some way to control at least the order of these "defaults" that get automatically added for `M-n'. E.g., be able to sort the obarray or list. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 16 10:58:06 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2023 14:58:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qL3CI-0006h2-7l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 10:58:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51450) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qL3CG-0006gV-RK for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 10:58:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qL3CB-0007Nz-3u; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 10:57:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sl6cLKCCIZgkzp85dZBP1khgagcS9ESZ8qHxKKQzNzo=; b=QkVd2G+yG4GK LBIT4VTD8oFevemBUPvoPsFnkvDIr/HAYSHUn3V2nvPT1DM2Rr9k/njdxYdnX5d8hJ9ZcoMXhuAK7 Y1j6AOiiSn8Db2JmKp/ZiOB3RP4ZgBC/JqgD6HU4M/6MeK6ooLy1n3fG9MH+4kWcNjYbNdpjNXMZF nHTUlWG+nOoxGwLqeiwvx0p2DDkHCqr1TWhujDZCRVas4UQcIfCEeHbt3FiPt2/xWaUYa+VgE2MLn 4NK6fZpja0biZNXQSLwcib7fD4zivrfCn/BoTZYllq+8HUchDeCBrJQmJgIXnk9TcplImUw0w9OaG 82WkTqfTYqr5zpu3jQxOGA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qL3CA-0000h1-Jm; Sun, 16 Jul 2023 10:57:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 17:58:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 16 Jul 2023 14:34:28 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 14:34:28 +0000 > > Hope this clarifies the request/bug report. It doesn't. Sorry, I guess I'm too stupid to understand what you are asking. I asked specific questions, and I don't see answers to those questions. How about if you start from some specific behavior of completing-read when called in a specific way, and then point out which aspects of this behavior are not documented? 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c4c70cea-37cd-4beb-fe9c-08db87cd6a94 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2023 20:27:32.8936 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 3pqfpTweAQZarSc78Q1XsNSn9jqGYFiVpsbbW50FVmklJnO8tG1ekcyEpZPGcrVMq1esZcjk4ZaZoWrRylL7jA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN7PR10MB6643 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-07-18_15,2023-07-18_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2307180186 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 2Gp7aBHu5ZycAZYlVncnEkbMHWKHVbxz X-Proofpoint-GUID: 2Gp7aBHu5ZycAZYlVncnEkbMHWKHVbxz X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Hope this clarifies the request/bug report. >=20 > It doesn't. Sorry, I guess I'm too stupid > to understand what you are asking. Don't be silly or sarcastic, please. If you don't understand it then I wasn't clear enough or perhaps you haven't yet tried hard enough. Let's try one more time. > I asked specific questions, and I don't see > answers to those questions. >=20 > How about if you start from some specific > behavior of completing-read when called in a > specific way, and then point out which aspects of > this behavior are not documented? These are the only questions I find in your replies: > Why do I care that the list of all completions > is added to the list of defaults? > > why do I care that the code calls > minibuffer-default-add-completions? > > Etc. etc. I don't find those so specific. And I think my post provides answers to both of them. But let me try again, keeping those questions in mind. A user cares what's available from `M-n'. (I don't expect another "Why?" for that, but it comes, I'll try to answer that too.) Why does it matter that all initial (i.e., prior to any user input in the minibuffer) completions are put into the `M-n' queue? Because that set of candidates is often huge. And because its order isn't designed for `M-n' or (especially) for the particular act of input reading. Often its order has no special reason. And the case given as an example, `C-h v', illustrates that well: (1) zillions of vars,=20 (2) in no user-expectable/understandable/ useful order - the order of obarray! This makes `M-n` useless (beyond the first variable, at most). And confusing. The natural question is "What's this? What's it for? What can I do with it?" Answer: It's for nothing (that I can see). It's useless. It's an antifeature - at least in the case of `C-h v'. And in other cases (but maybe not all). Why does a user care about `minibuffer-default-add-completions'? She doesn't. I didn't say she does. (But an _Elisp_ user _might_ care.) What an Elisp user (not an end user of a command) really needs to care about is var `minibuffer-default-add-function', not the particular function that's its default value. Forget for a moment about what various function values for that variable might do. The most important thing about that var is that if nil then the domain of completions isn't added to the `M-n' queue at all. IOW, that _turns off_ the automatic filling of the `M-n' queue. An Elisp user needs to know that fact, if s?he uses `completing-read' and s?he wants to prevent the kind of confusing overkill exhibited by `C-h v'. (She then needs to bind the var to nil around the call to `completing-read'). And an Elisp user needs to know about that variable if s?he has a small completion domain (unlike that of `describe-variable'), and so s?he wants automatic inclusion of completions, and s?he wants to control the order in which they're presented by `M-n'. `M-n' and `M-p' are inherently all about _order_ - order matters. Different contexts can call for different orders. =09 The best subset of the completion domain for a given command's `M-n' use, and the best `M-n' order for it, is up to the definer of that command (more precisely, of each use of `completing-read'). Elisp users thus need to know that to define the subset and its order for `M-n' they can bind var `minibuffer-default-add-function' to a function that returns such a list. This isn't obvious. You won't find it by reading the `completing-read' doc, at least, though it's just as important to controlling the behavior as the args to that function.=20 I mentioned that I think it would help to make some changes to both the Elisp doc and the user doc. Doc strings and manuals. But I also mentioned that I think it's the Lisp doc that's most in need of some explanation about this. Because blind automatic inclusion of all domain completions occurs, end users need, unfortunately, to be made aware of the behavior (at least how to inhibit it). IMO it's a bug that something like `C-h v' stuffs all variables into `M-n' - in a=20 perceptibly random order, no less. But given that bug (is it by design?), a user (yes, and end user) needs to be given a heads-up as to what's happening. In effect, the heads-up tells a user that when prompted for input with completion, in some cases the "future history" of defaults is effectively useless. And it doesn't hurt to tell users why: _all_ possible domain completions are included, possibly in a meaningless order. To be clear: There's a world of difference between (1) a command that provides a list of likely useful default values in arg DEF and (2) a command that provides a single such DEF value. And that difference is felt harder when the completion domain is large, and even harder when it's large and in a useless order. By tacking - systematically - all domain completions onto the end of the carefully defined DEFaults, we now, in effect, pollute `M-n', reducing or eliminating what value it had. And in particular, we've now worked against the feature of letting DEF provide multiple values ("future history"). The request mitigates some of the damage done by the blind and systematic addition to `M-n' of all completions in the domain. If we fix that design bug in some way then the need for the doc requested here might be less critical. If you still don't understand the problem, let me ask you to simply try this: `C-h v' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' ... What's happening? What determines which symbols get inserted in the minibuffer, and in what order? Answer: All symbols in the obarray when `completing-read' is called are filtered by a predicate that tests for a defvar or a variable that's buffer-local variable in the buffer where you invoked `C-h v'. There are thousands of variables in that future history. Good luck getting to any of them that might be useful (after the first one, the provided DEF) in any given context. And your minibuffer input can't help you. Try this: `C-h v org TAB' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' `M-n' ... Of course the zillions of variables stuffed into the `M-n' queue don't reflect your minibuffer input ("org"). They don't reflect the state of completion at all. So this attempt to guess at what's happening, and how you might control it a bit, is a red herring. That's OK. But what on earth do the `M-n' values correspond to? What's their relevance/significance/use? Answer: None - irrelevant, useless. April fool! The behavior is not useful, rational, expected, or understandable. With a little aid from the doc it could at least become expected and, to some extent, understandable. Let's at least provide that bit of help. HTH. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 19 02:39:14 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2023 06:39:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qM0qA-0003Ml-1K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 02:39:14 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::225]:41539) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qM0q8-0003MY-Hm for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 02:39:12 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4FF41C0007; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 06:39:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 18 Jul 2023 20:27:32 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:35:32 +0300 Message-ID: <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Try this: > > `C-h v org TAB' > `M-n' > `M-n' > `M-n' > `M-n' > `M-n' > `M-n' > `M-n' > ... Why candidates are inserted in a random order? It would make sense to insert them in the same order as they are sorted in the *Completions* buffer. But then `M-n' will become an equivalent of `M-down'. So maybe better to sort candidates by recency/frequency? But then how `M-n' will be different from `M-p'? I think ideally it should use the same order as used by icomplete-mode. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e7c33943-166b-44a6-87c2-08db887ce2db X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jul 2023 17:23:36.5868 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: xMHysy/uZt3sK2CYDo4BXcDm7qNHGHVuvcx3s6gWCoMVsuLJ4ihLA7BJ8+jfELMvWAN4otiObaWUevrgJFnvGw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR10MB5896 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-07-19_12,2023-07-19_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=842 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2307190157 X-Proofpoint-GUID: UMIfpPqPtpq8sHGMdnIwnBN3-r5MfOv4 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: UMIfpPqPtpq8sHGMdnIwnBN3-r5MfOv4 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Try this: > > `C-h v org TAB' > > `M-n' > > `M-n' > > ... >=20 > Why candidates are inserted in a random order? > It would make sense to insert them in the same > order as they are sorted in the *Completions* buffer. That's one reasonable possibility. It's not the only one. The fact is that the candidates are in a useless order, particularly when the completion table is just obarray or an unsorted, filtered subset of obarray. Why are all candidates inserted into the=20 `M-n' queue at all? And why no ability to filter them or sort them - during completion (i.e., taking the current completion state into account). > But then `M-n' will become an equivalent of `M-down'. > So maybe better to sort candidates by recency/frequency? > But then how `M-n' will be different from `M-p'? >=20 > I think ideally it should use the same order as used > by icomplete-mode. Ideally it should (1) be off by default, not on, (2) be totally open to program control, based on current completion state (e.g. current set of input matches) and completion history and input history, (3) filterable, truncatable, etc., and (4) should have reasonable doc. A global function-valued variable is maybe not the best way to add such a feature to `completing-read' (& compagnie). Seems like maybe this feature wasn't well thought out - the `C-h v' behavior says a lot about it, I think. Fundamentally, I think this works _against_ the purpose and idea behind DEF (explicit, coder-defined list of default values). It represents noise pollution, IMHO. At a bare minimum, the default value of the function-valued variable should be nil (or a no-op function), i.e., this new feature should be OFF by default. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 20 02:18:59 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2023 06:18:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMN07-0002qj-9g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:18:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49406) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qMN04-0002qV-Hl for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:18:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMMzy-0006vJ-Ep; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:18:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=u+9FoNYkekxZQdmyiljL0sx6HCpZTH/Dv7CX2RGyzB0=; b=KYej4bZgcNAngA8l0U5v sEofd8B9vLtZDDbgpjB6LLXtQDbLGwHT5Zz8kJvwZ0sL27b4HPUBDzdW+x0U9Aa8i8E11bfjS4tzH ZbSGUyxOx1cJJWpWoss9+CyBvRomu7WueCx9nYRScZRsInBwuqeGvOHSrOyQLBojyWNlgJXj3uTn7 Z+rAbgRsmobnl3x08sSfYLECx4GZGe4R+TzL/NSVx8TSOAJnbNt/wrP9yy50rYr6UgjGEW+BCwBh4 YArUvCd5Ng2L6AOJ/Qh4jWt0T/4XlIK+2I8bkRWBLffKBKsprBjWEdfue4Bl/1YVMZ6M3+QPjiQ4y vIDSiGOAkeRNqA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMMzn-0007jL-Bh; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:18:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:19:12 +0300 Message-Id: <834jlz3y1r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 18 Jul 2023 20:27:32 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 20:27:32 +0000 > > > > Hope this clarifies the request/bug report. > > > > It doesn't. Sorry, I guess I'm too stupid > > to understand what you are asking. > > Don't be silly or sarcastic, please. This isn't sarcasm, this is frustration. And please avoid ad-hominem if you can, especially when you yourself use language that can easily be interpreted as sarcasm: > A user cares what's available from `M-n'. > (I don't expect another "Why?" for that, > but it comes, I'll try to answer that too.) Isn't that sarcasm? So let's try to drop the attitude and discuss the real problems, okay? (Adding Stefan, because I think he could have insights in this area that is nowadays complicated enough to blow my mind.) > Why does it matter that all initial (i.e., > prior to any user input in the minibuffer) > completions are put into the `M-n' queue? > > Because that set of candidates is often > huge. And because its order isn't designed > for `M-n' or (especially) for the particular > act of input reading. Often its order has > no special reason. > > And the case given as an example, `C-h v', > illustrates that well: (1) zillions of vars, > (2) in no user-expectable/understandable/ > useful order - the order of obarray! This part of your report seems to be a separate issue -- you seem to be saying that "C-h v" and similar commands should not add all the variables to the "future history". It's possible that you are right, although it could be useful if M-s and M-r in the minibuffer would actually search that list -- which they don't currently, due to how this "add to future history" feature is implemented to add elements lazily (see goto-history-element). But that is a separate issue, almost unrelated to the Subject of your report, which is about documentation. Whatever problems we have in this area with "C-h v", they cannot be solved by documentation in the ELisp manual. So what is the documentation issue? You say: > What an Elisp user (not an end user of a > command) really needs to care about is var > `minibuffer-default-add-function', not the > particular function that's its default value. > > Forget for a moment about what various > function values for that variable might do. > The most important thing about that var is > that if nil then the domain of completions > isn't added to the `M-n' queue at all. IOW, > that _turns off_ the automatic filling of > the `M-n' queue. > > An Elisp user needs to know that fact, if > s?he uses `completing-read' and s?he wants > to prevent the kind of confusing overkill > exhibited by `C-h v'. (She then needs to > bind the var to nil around the call to > `completing-read'). > [...] > Elisp users thus need to know that to define > the subset and its order for `M-n' they can > bind var `minibuffer-default-add-function' > to a function that returns such a list. > This isn't obvious. You won't find it by > reading the `completing-read' doc, at least, > though it's just as important to controlling > the behavior as the args to that function. First, M-n is not about completion, it is about minibuffer history. Completion functions use the minibuffer, so the minibuffer history affects them, but they are not the only ones affected. The documentation of completing-read and of read-from-minibuffer already state that DEFAULT is added to the "future history": The argument DEFAULT specifies default values to make available through the history commands. It should be a string, a list of strings, or ‘nil’. The string or strings become the minibuffer’s “future history”, available to the user with ‘M-n’. What is missing here, it seems, is the hint that this addition can be controlled, among other measures, via minibuffer-default-add-function, and the documentation of that variable where the minibuffer history is documented. Is that what you are asking for, or is there anything else? > I mentioned that I think it would help to > make some changes to both the Elisp doc and > the user doc. Why would Emacs users need to know about this? The mechanism to control what and how is added to minibuffer history is not user-level information; users cannot use it to their benefit. > In effect, the heads-up tells a user that > when prompted for input with completion, > in some cases the "future history" of > defaults is effectively useless. And it > doesn't hurt to tell users why: _all_ > possible domain completions are included, > possibly in a meaningless order. If we think that future history in some case is useless, TRT is to change the code so that it ceases to be useless, not to document that it is useless. IOW, we don't document our own bugs, we prefer to fix them. So no, we won't be telling this in user documentation. If we decide that this behavior of "C-h v" and similar commands is not useful, we should change it to be more useful. 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debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 22 04:07:18 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2023 08:07:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qN7e2-0003s6-55 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 04:07:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qN7dz-0003rt-FC for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 04:07:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qN7ds-00030d-CT; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 04:07:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rU8bT7cdGl5oGZel50wYwxZFAIOQ3iiGLzTvbuitoUI=; b=mZVug1i0vkGG WWzB9LyEP27NrgAo8c/1CgLetOfRreRc7Fe5FgMR5fm5i2viwpxtx2e43gUqS+lxrHsk4JSdWkz0+ qlMLJlVNix/xE2Mx6mmMyOj50k2NAbxAgTmqptUj0jMq/mgQwGF0j0G4bRNHonytfCGGEZqE7htub Iv3Ig34FbntpJ6H+56NmLNl6so4jL+RALIR4QTIP/y0UGHmc2NehHsQ5pHSfaQFtt2hB3mpZYpjhD 6RBqwrAlsC45AGl8mvfEj6PcNeid1Vav1DxrEReZOls6z68hrYt/KI0olINizQhyRsRBmcRuAZiZa EU3vH4vNDBy86GBbCYE1sQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qN7dr-0003LW-OC; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 04:07:08 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 11:07:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83351g9xnz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 20 Jul 2023 16:45:26 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <834jlz3y1r.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 16:45:26 +0000 > > Agree fully. Let's see what Stefan, Juri, > etc. think about the actual problem, leaving > doc out of it till the behavior question is > settled. I actually decided to document this already. This behavior exists since Emacs 23.1(!!), so it's unlikely to go away soon, and it's high time for it to be documented. I leave this bug open for discussing the wisdom of adding all the completion candidates in the likes of "C-h v". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 20 02:56:14 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Oct 2023 06:56:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38508 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjQb-0003f0-LK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 02:56:13 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::221]:51967) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjQT-0003eB-RI for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 02:56:08 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9356C240003; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 06:55:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:23:36 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:47:12 +0300 Message-ID: <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > Try this: >> > `C-h v org TAB' >> > `M-n' >> > `M-n' >> > ... >> >> Why candidates are inserted in a random order? >> It would make sense to insert them in the same >> order as they are sorted in the *Completions* buffer. > > That's one reasonable possibility. > It's not the only one. I tried to use 'completions-sort' to sort 'C-h v M-n' default values. By default, it sorts alphabetically that makes sense for 'C-h v M-n'. But this broke many other completions. For example, currently 'C-x b M-n M-n ...' provides the default values sorted by the order of recently used buffers that is very useful. It keeps the order of 'buffer-alist' in 'internal-complete-buffer'. Another example is 'C-x p p M-n M-n ...' that currently uses the order of recently accessed projects from 'project--list'. This means that we can't change this default behavior. So currently there are three different sorting orders used by default: 1. 'TAB' uses the alphabetical order; 1. 'M-p' uses the historical order; 2. 'M-n' is unsorted and follows the order of the caller. > The fact is that the candidates are in > a useless order, particularly when the > completion table is just obarray or an > unsorted, filtered subset of obarray. This means that the caller should take care about sorting completions is a meaningful order. But then a new metadata type similar to 'display-sort-function' should be added such as 'minibuffer-default-sort-function' that might be a hassle. So maybe this could be improved with a simper fix? This is why I added such condition below: (eq minibuffer-completion-table 'help--symbol-completion-table) Please try this modified function, it should work with 'C-h v M-n': #+begin_src emacs-lisp (defun minibuffer-default-add-completions () "Return a list of all completions without the default value. This function is used to add all elements of the completion table to the end of the list of defaults just after the default value." (let ((def minibuffer-default) (all (all-completions "" minibuffer-completion-table minibuffer-completion-predicate))) (when (eq minibuffer-completion-table 'help--symbol-completion-table) (setq all (pcase completions-sort ('nil all) ('alphabetical (sort all #'string-lessp)) (_ (funcall completions-sort all))))) (if (listp def) (append def all) (cons def (delete def all))))) #+end_src > Why are all candidates inserted into the > `M-n' queue at all? And why no ability > to filter them or sort them - during > completion (i.e., taking the current > completion state into account). Because 'M-n' is not completion. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 50409dfc-eb4e-49bb-107b-08dbd18c568a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2023 16:48:08.0095 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6tbP89mL3lU3Sc0CBs+MPPr4GOFYAl2W+4TG6vjHcPkiNgqKk1GxxCTc2604Yabk4cPp7XUS8RhBYlN0MKaTZQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH3PR10MB6902 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-20_10,2023-10-19_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2310170001 definitions=main-2310200141 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: O2a_2x9pVBXmttgo926fnEWvrhzwsAN2 X-Proofpoint-GUID: O2a_2x9pVBXmttgo926fnEWvrhzwsAN2 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > >> > Try this: > >> > `C-h v org TAB' > >> > `M-n' > >> > `M-n' > >> > ... > >> > >> Why candidates are inserted in a random order? > >> It would make sense to insert them in the same > >> order as they are sorted in the *Completions* buffer. > > > > That's one reasonable possibility. > > It's not the only one. > So currently there are three different sorting orders > used by default: > 1. 'TAB' uses the alphabetical order; > 1. 'M-p' uses the historical order; > 2. 'M-n' is unsorted and follows the order of the caller. No, `M-n' is just like `M-p' for previous inputs. And for DEFAULTS it's in the order of DEFAULTS - which has nothing to do with the set of initial completion candidates or their order. The misfeature that introduced all of the problems you're considering now was to stuff all of the _completion_ candidates (the completion domain) into the `M-n' (and thus `M-p') queue. That was a huge mistake, IMHO. > > The fact is that the candidates are in > > a useless order, particularly when the > > completion table is just obarray or an > > unsorted, filtered subset of obarray. >=20 > This means that the caller should take care about > sorting completions is a meaningful order. > But then a new metadata type similar to > 'display-sort-function' should be added > such as 'minibuffer-default-sort-function' > that might be a hassle. No, just revert the misfeature of adding the completion domain to the `M-n' queue. End of story - no problem. > (defun minibuffer-default-add-completions () > "Return a list of all completions without the default value. > This function is used to add all elements of the completion table to > the end of the list of defaults just after the default value." Just get rid of that function altogether. Pull this misfeature out of Emacs; it never should have been added (and IIRC that was done without any discussion?). > > Why are all candidates inserted into the > > `M-n' queue at all? And why no ability > > to filter them or sort them - during > > completion (i.e., taking the current > > completion state into account). >=20 > Because 'M-n' is not completion. Precisely! Minibuffer input, and its history and its defaults, is not related to the COLLECTION used for completing. Lax completion doesn't even require that your minibuffer input be any COLLECTION element. Completion candidates have no business being automatically injected into the `M-n'/`M-p' queue. That's for DEFAULTS and HISTORY. Arg DEFAULTS has a raison d'etre; it's not the same as arg COLLECTION. You're going farther down that dead-end rabbit hole now. Back out and plug that misdirected hole. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 29 14:43:33 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2023 18:43:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43343 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxAl3-00080L-2F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:43:33 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::229]:51121) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxAl1-000806-CV for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:43:32 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C2EDFF80E; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 18:42:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 20 Oct 2023 16:48:08 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 20:29:42 +0200 Message-ID: <86h6m9v1sx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Pull this misfeature out of Emacs; it > never should have been added (and IIRC > that was done without any discussion?). This feature was removed by bug#5214 and bug#5364, then later added back by the request in bug#12490 where you participated and raised no objections. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b0a4ab9f-c20a-4688-5799-08dbd8cc8422 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Oct 2023 22:15:10.4325 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cdGtRRSMHQm19fJ5a6ZI0FpKIhZbwY0fuBkge3r738w+xqltKyvhotRQwtjODvY7OvnfOP00Y/CPtOShCUttMg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR10MB4332 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.987,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-29_12,2023-10-27_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=498 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2310240000 definitions=main-2310290190 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 5pNhft47AkVNKlvPaGJP_M3T11pJ4ltb X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 5pNhft47AkVNKlvPaGJP_M3T11pJ4ltb X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Pull this misfeature out of Emacs; it > > never should have been added (and IIRC > > that was done without any discussion?). >=20 > This feature was removed by bug#5214 and bug#5364, > then later added back by the request in bug#12490 > where you participated and raised no objections. Seriously? The only "participation" I had in bug #12490 was to say that "We should never bind `C-s' in the minibuffer to anything. We shouldn't remove the ability to use Isearch there (using the global `C-s' binding)." I said nothing there about any question of jamming the completion domain (initial candidates) into the `M-n' queue. I had no idea that was going on. That wasn't the subject of bug #12490, at all! And looking now, I really don't see that it has anything to do with that thread - or with bugs #5214 and #5364. So I don't see what you're on about, here. That someone might have abused bug report #12490 to do what you say is news to me (and it's not kosher IMO). I no doubt did not follow that particular bug thread with a fine-tooth comb. If that was done then it snuck by me, I guess. But I certainly have voiced my opposition to stuffing the `M-n' queue with the completion domain. Multiple times, and likely in multiple threads. I wasn't aware that this purposeful regression was reverted in bug threads #5214 and #5364. I didn't participate in either of those threads, and was no doubt unaware that they had anything to do with this problem. And I don't even see that what you say happened. In bug #12490 I see you say this, at the outset, in reply to OP's complaint that he could no longer _search in the minibuffer_: > I want to report, that most used function stop working in Emacs 24 > (tested 2 versions 24.1.1 and latest 24.2.1). I use Search in > Mini buffer a lot (don't know if people use it or not). If you call > search C-s when inside minibuffer like C-h f C-s you can search the > content of Minibuffer like search for functions or for buffer name to > switch like C-x b C-s (better then ido mode). And in Emacs 24 M-x C-s > stop working so I you can't search for interactive function to execute > anymore. It was working in 23.3 provided by Ubuntu (package > 23.3+1-1ubuntu4). Sorry, this feature has been removed by http://debbugs.gnu.org/5214 and http://debbugs.gnu.org/5364 But it's easy to restore it with a simple patch that prepends the current default value (a command at point) to the sorted list of all available command names: And even that doesn't seem to have much, if anything, to do with adding all of the initial completions to the `M-n' queue. So I really don't follow you, here. To be very clear, I'm opposed to the misfeature of automatically jamming the initial completions onto the `M-n' queue. We have arg DEFAULTS for that. Callers of `completing-read' etc. can provide exactly the list of DEFAULTS they want to prepend to the `M-n' queue. Don't remove programmer (and user) control by smothering `M-n' with the completion candidates. Please pull this misfeature out. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 30 04:10:22 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2023 08:10:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxNLq-0004wU-8Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 04:10:22 -0400 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:40183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qxNLl-0004wD-TA for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 04:10:20 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31BCF240005; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:09:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 29 Oct 2023 22:15:10 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <86h6m9v1sx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:44:10 +0200 Message-ID: <861qdc1s3s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > But it's easy to restore it with a simple patch that prepends the > current default value (a command at point) to the sorted list of > all available command names: > > And even that doesn't seem to have much, if > anything, to do with adding all of the initial > completions to the `M-n' queue. > So I really don't follow you, here. All available command names mentioned above are extracted from initial completions. > To be very clear, I'm opposed to the misfeature > of automatically jamming the initial completions > onto the `M-n' queue. We have arg DEFAULTS for > that. Callers of `completing-read' etc. can > provide exactly the list of DEFAULTS they want > to prepend to the `M-n' queue. Indeed, ideally callers of `completing-read' should provide the exact list of defaults. The problem is that it's too late to identify the existing callers and to add an explicit list of defaults to them. > Don't remove programmer (and user) control by > smothering `M-n' with the completion candidates. This doesn't remove programmer (and user) control because it's still easy to add own default values to `M-n' and to remove initial completions from `M-n'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 13:14:23 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2023 18:14:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzhde-0002c7-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 13:14:23 -0500 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::226]:51987) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzhdc-0002bs-VR for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 13:14:21 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50297C0004; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:13:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:47:12 +0300") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 20:11:36 +0200 Message-ID: <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>> > `C-h v org TAB' >>> > `M-n' >>> > `M-n' I become convinced more and more that the problem lies somewhere else. Trying to customize 'completions-sort' to the valid option 'nil' ("No sorting") reveals there are some completions where a meaningful order is still not maintained. For example, 'C-x v b l TAB' displays branches in the order reverse from the output of `git for-each-ref --format="%(refname)"`. Here is the fix: #+begin_src patch diff --git a/lisp/vc/vc-git.el b/lisp/vc/vc-git.el index 9ec45c59893..7a3eaba78c7 100644 --- a/lisp/vc/vc-git.el +++ b/lisp/vc/vc-git.el @@ -1723,7 +1729,7 @@ vc-git-revision-table "^refs/\\(heads\\|tags\\|remotes\\)/\\(.*\\)$"))) (while (re-search-forward regexp nil t) (push (match-string 2) table)))) - table)) + (nreverse table))) (defun vc-git-revision-completion-table (files) (letrec ((table (lazy-completion-table #+end_src From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 06 02:33:00 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2023 07:33:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzu6W-00079t-G7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Nov 2023 02:33:00 -0500 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::227]:44213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzu6U-00079N-OD for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Nov 2023 02:32:59 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CA4E620008; Mon, 6 Nov 2023 07:32:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 05 Nov 2023 20:11:36 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2023 09:28:39 +0200 Message-ID: <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>>> > `C-h v org TAB' >>>> > `M-n' >>>> > `M-n' > > I become convinced more and more that the problem lies somewhere else. > Trying to customize 'completions-sort' to the valid option 'nil' > ("No sorting") reveals there are some completions where a meaningful > order is still not maintained. For example, 'C-x v b l TAB' > displays branches in the order reverse from the output of > `git for-each-ref --format="%(refname)"`. Here is the fix: > > #+begin_src patch > diff --git a/lisp/vc/vc-git.el b/lisp/vc/vc-git.el > index 9ec45c59893..7a3eaba78c7 100644 > --- a/lisp/vc/vc-git.el > +++ b/lisp/vc/vc-git.el > @@ -1723,7 +1729,7 @@ vc-git-revision-table > "^refs/\\(heads\\|tags\\|remotes\\)/\\(.*\\)$"))) > (while (re-search-forward regexp nil t) > (push (match-string 2) table)))) > - table)) > + (nreverse table))) > > (defun vc-git-revision-completion-table (files) > (letrec ((table (lazy-completion-table > #+end_src Pushed. Customizing 'completions-sort' to the option 'nil' ("No sorting") reveals more interesting things. For example, when vc completes a backend, it turns out that the order is manually crafted: (defcustom vc-handled-backends '(RCS CVS SVN SCCS SRC Bzr Git Hg) ;; RCS, CVS, SVN, SCCS, and SRC come first because they are per-dir ;; rather than per-tree. RCS comes first because of the multibackend ;; support intended to use RCS for local commits (with a remote CVS server). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 09 11:36:40 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2023 16:36:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48620 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r181H-0004ux-Tt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:36:40 -0500 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:44747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r181F-0004uh-Ly for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:36:38 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6DCD41C0006; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 16:35:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 06 Nov 2023 09:28:39 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:34:52 +0200 Message-ID: <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Customizing 'completions-sort' to the option 'nil' ("No sorting") > reveals more interesting things. For example, when vc completes a backend, > it turns out that the order is manually crafted: > > (defcustom vc-handled-backends '(RCS CVS SVN SCCS SRC Bzr Git Hg) > ;; RCS, CVS, SVN, SCCS, and SRC come first because they are per-dir > ;; rather than per-tree. RCS comes first because of the multibackend > ;; support intended to use RCS for local commits (with a remote CVS server). I guess not many users customize 'completions-sort' to nil. Otherwise someone may notice that the order of unsorted files is reversed from the output of `ls -U`. This could be fixed by: diff --git a/src/dired.c b/src/dired.c index c10531cdb16..0f527a801f7 100644 --- a/src/dired.c +++ b/src/dired.c @@ -846,7 +846,7 @@ DEFUN ("file-name-all-completions", Ffile_name_all_completions, bestmatch = unbind_to (count, bestmatch); if (all_flag || NILP (bestmatch)) - return bestmatch; + return Fnreverse (bestmatch); /* Return t if the supplied string is an exact match (counting case); it does not require any change to be made. */ if (matchcount == 1 && !NILP (Fequal (bestmatch, file))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 09 11:49:36 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2023 16:49:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48641 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r18Dn-0005LC-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:49:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35316) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r18Dl-0005Ki-Ua for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:49:34 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r18D2-0001vN-Ly; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:48:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=CrQuGHuRHwxdR6KDs0uwXQOYbAtp9qh2b/gFTvSd4xM=; b=n7fLUoJbz+ar kgef+Ta7XgI9oovfLOI6oTqpzvl9gUUwJzImtrZgqZjLtARQ5L7wJEYhCNeuEfiCs2YEZLFpQ8Unh ExxzUATl40DfpDHp3MTFwWJfkJdfXptrJtMoSJBsq/Z3GgLohT4J6ncF7VzSdKqKLLQsRQgTprxNn SeP/vXMqrjS71Q7kb1G2hrmALYvgp0agLW7hdO9vQMmLIpLOPHSVk1BxC6OGKAaUbabUkmGjQVVft jRHfuyvfA3m9NavKh7aVxK7d2dZGCDlWQDdzVlx6ken/2uoAGBQsi43Xlgu709/YoIDBT+veSwp6R Uo8O3hy1wKRxQpaMwbPDTQ==; Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:48:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:34:52 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:34:52 +0200 > > I guess not many users customize 'completions-sort' to nil. > Otherwise someone may notice that the order of unsorted files > is reversed from the output of `ls -U`. This could be fixed by: The order is not reverse here, AFAICT, so please show a reproducible recipe to make sure we are on the same page regarding this change. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 09 12:05:41 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2023 17:05:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48655 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r18TN-0008KP-F1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 12:05:41 -0500 Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.201]:53813) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r18TJ-0008K7-NW for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 12:05:40 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80D3C1BF208; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 17:04:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:48:30 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 19:03:49 +0200 Message-ID: <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I guess not many users customize 'completions-sort' to nil. >> Otherwise someone may notice that the order of unsorted files >> is reversed from the output of `ls -U`. This could be fixed by: > > The order is not reverse here, AFAICT, so please show a reproducible > recipe to make sure we are on the same page regarding this change. A recipe is to customize `completions-sort' to nil ("No sorting"), then first call `M-& ls -U RET' and afterwards `C-x C-f TAB TAB' and compare the contents of two buffers *Async Shell Command* and *Completions*. The order of files is reversed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 09 14:32:49 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2023 19:32:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Alk-0006HI-Bo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:32:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1AlZ-0006Gu-0b for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:32:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Akp-0005yS-IO; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:31:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=LvYH/qFUcit6c3reruU8dniMB6c9vlJFifKWhu2G8/k=; b=rxFyPrEC/VE6 ix1rDgyfhQ/tN/wD9eiS9N7PVrQR4rR/we7FEd9AuXTQi8FuhxGUe7lufGKL1JshF0SohYTZL41PA XlqhO8czsB/LoiNfKAYeCWPRIX8heZP8n6goCQYGu60d+MLCErPluixHxHdLtAOuUdFxSn403lMxy ofTSaHw01SQ8B7gCZXa6R+cYCdzvBffbEx3d2suMxnUgQsFl1n2CLFWPI4zddzNVJVveUpllCAOX1 vwhaLfKS39XP72t6QgpEMCy/U6S3SJHhTt6vuJNIV0KJUKy0m2DVjy14bkQOjsCIELXCOFBLQwrE2 e6evHPEbgLouObmXnpEfQw==; Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 21:31:43 +0200 Message-Id: <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 19:03:49 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 64656@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 19:03:49 +0200 > > >> I guess not many users customize 'completions-sort' to nil. > >> Otherwise someone may notice that the order of unsorted files > >> is reversed from the output of `ls -U`. This could be fixed by: > > > > The order is not reverse here, AFAICT, so please show a reproducible > > recipe to make sure we are on the same page regarding this change. > > A recipe is to customize `completions-sort' to nil ("No sorting"), > then first call `M-& ls -U RET' and afterwards `C-x C-f TAB TAB' > and compare the contents of two buffers *Async Shell Command* > and *Completions*. The order of files is reversed. OK, I see it now, thanks. But IMO this raises several issues: . completions-sort affects all completions, not just completions of file names, right? So why the change only for file names? . who said that the order we get file names from readdir is the "unsorted order", and not its reverse? . in any case, I think we should reverse only when completions-sort is nil, because otherwise we could adversely affect the sorting performed on the results From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 10 02:52:05 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2023 07:52:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1MJ4-0000JT-RA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 02:52:04 -0500 Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::228]:54149) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1MJ1-0000Ip-Fw for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 02:51:55 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 073E81BF20E; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 07:51:08 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 09 Nov 2023 21:31:43 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:45:02 +0200 Message-ID: <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> A recipe is to customize `completions-sort' to nil ("No sorting"), >> then first call `M-& ls -U RET' and afterwards `C-x C-f TAB TAB' >> and compare the contents of two buffers *Async Shell Command* >> and *Completions*. The order of files is reversed. > > OK, I see it now, thanks. > > But IMO this raises several issues: > > . completions-sort affects all completions, not just completions of > file names, right? So why the change only for file names? I'm trying various completions after customizing completions-sort to nil, so currently noticed a problem in the completions of file names. > . who said that the order we get file names from readdir is the > "unsorted order", and not its reverse? 'readdir' returns the order of the file system, and 'file_name_completion' reverses it. > . in any case, I think we should reverse only when completions-sort > is nil, because otherwise we could adversely affect the sorting > performed on the results This means bringing 'Qcompletions_sort' to 'file_name_completion'? Probably not worth the trouble. Better to declare the value nil of `completions-sort' as unsupported. Anyway this was just an experiment to see how useful is the no sorting option for completions. And the conclusion is that it's useful only for part of completion types, and not useful for others. It's useless for obarray and file names. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 10 03:16:43 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2023 08:16:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49502 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Mh0-0000xa-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 03:16:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Mgx-0000x8-JR for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 03:16:40 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1MgC-0006qn-SE; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 03:15:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=OAQaDHN1mgejnm6r0/0XWK/vE83/5YuSNpdTEkPGZPw=; b=rC+thpVlqo8X xCfvG1c+S5LFHocZ6Ej8Qmp4g6UuI9hh/JDNAQ129LLx08mQHuaUaLfT/MONz7UskjCC3Pl5EvS0t Z8pjG9BE3Ct99AacHJ2f5jUCwYUt6kJ2MN/eSQfVLHn3DQ5kNQTf1MYeidZktp3IuTSmHJt5WM/K4 19H2h/7CXXBZbF58XQeZjKEfNLby9CO9uqeolYnbCVFfw5pbOzOWlyk9vvf4yeUYJH71O5iPD4V9Y xXeiq3kqqWPqXCSJC5nBvqi6QiIa0zSDFnoM7esI8mhUXMoJvcYa68jiKGYAV5wrdfIr00G0KmQCG cy85GaRH/+enUeyo04Nrlg==; Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 10:15:45 +0200 Message-Id: <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:45:02 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 64656@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:45:02 +0200 > > >> A recipe is to customize `completions-sort' to nil ("No sorting"), > >> then first call `M-& ls -U RET' and afterwards `C-x C-f TAB TAB' > >> and compare the contents of two buffers *Async Shell Command* > >> and *Completions*. The order of files is reversed. > > > > OK, I see it now, thanks. > > > > But IMO this raises several issues: > > > > . completions-sort affects all completions, not just completions of > > file names, right? So why the change only for file names? > > I'm trying various completions after customizing completions-sort to nil, > so currently noticed a problem in the completions of file names. So you agree that the problem is wider than that? > > . who said that the order we get file names from readdir is the > > "unsorted order", and not its reverse? > > 'readdir' returns the order of the file system, That is not true in general. For example, on MS-Windows, it returns the file names in alphabetical order. In general, we don't know what is the relation between the order in which readdir returns file names and the order of the file entries in the directory on disk, as that is an implementation detail. > > . in any case, I think we should reverse only when completions-sort > > is nil, because otherwise we could adversely affect the sorting > > performed on the results > > This means bringing 'Qcompletions_sort' to 'file_name_completion'? Yes. > Probably not worth the trouble. Why not? It's just a single simple test. > Better to declare the value nil of `completions-sort' as > unsupported. I don't see why. > Anyway this was just an experiment to see how useful is the > no sorting option for completions. > > And the conclusion is that it's useful only for part of completion types, > and not useful for others. It's useless for obarray and file names. I added Stefan to this discussion, in case he has an opinion or comments. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 10 14:52:46 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2023 19:52:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50902 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1XYc-0005yg-Db for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:52:46 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:16914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1XYX-0005yP-DX for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:52:45 -0500 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E6F73807A4; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:51:55 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1699645914; bh=VXGhctSUT3Krm9RAnCMTVjidcL2mTRy3azMa29GbsEI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Bpj8vuT436cS3y1lkNxYC34kimGpAqogBr84I8FdAhSEJXXIbyANRoJ6gTSQokGoE 5aOkmDi1QoEXm+y/Tjc5xfPYINoHip5vad/i49G8QRDpKlh4tygm/Kdc2oEUd/WMW2 hnd7yscSOPnd64c51dSAuKCc/AKSmzDuUjF1SuzD4bvzsauHcuikgIywkQ4ooUPDeu +t5c1DJOmbjWZaQHu+2LcOcPV2+xSlY3Gozc/AZWSpM/87zaddpxgYMnXptD6MGiaG u2ekDA308aDTrVZFpMZ8BiMMYa6xfwYs6olitAwfGWCaW4uBhlHbP3yrm+2q5QhZvs 3QhEi9FI2uO+g== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E2B728028B; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.227.120]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACEF612031F; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:51:54 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 09 Nov 2023 21:31:43 +0200") Message-ID: References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 14:51:54 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.016 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > . completions-sort affects all completions, not just completions of > file names, right? So why the change only for file names? AFAICT many completion tables completely disregard the order in their output, presuming that it will be reordered later if/when needed. Clearly `file-name-all-completions` is among them, which is what the patch proposes to fix. > . who said that the order we get file names from readdir is the > "unsorted order", and not its reverse? Nobody, indeed. Under GNU/Linux with an `ext4` filesystem, the `ls -U` order is basically random (ext4's htrees use some a hash-based directory structure), so reversing it doesn't make much difference (unless you explicitly compare it with `ls -U`). But for those filesystems that use a directory structure where files are naturally sorted in a meaningful way (like alphabetical), returning the directory's order or the reverse is a lot more noticeable. > . in any case, I think we should reverse only when completions-sort > is nil, because otherwise we could adversely affect the sorting > performed on the results I don't see how/why. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 12 03:33:42 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2023 08:33:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55085 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r25uY-0000lU-BF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 03:33:42 -0500 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:37521) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r25uW-0000l6-Ki for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 03:33:41 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3145D240003; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 08:32:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 10 Nov 2023 10:15:45 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:13:10 +0200 Message-ID: <864jhrwfad.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain >> I'm trying various completions after customizing completions-sort to nil, >> so currently noticed a problem in the completions of file names. > > So you agree that the problem is wider than that? The problem reported by this bug report is that the order is random by `C-h v M-n M-n' because it uses obarray. There is no such problem for `C-x C-f M-n M-n' because the list of default values is truncated explicitly in `read-file-name-default' by (minibuffer-with-setup-hook (lambda () (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function ... So maybe to use the same to truncate the list of default values for `C-h f', `C-h v', `C-h o'? --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: inline; filename=minibuffer-default-add-function.patch diff --git a/lisp/help-fns.el b/lisp/help-fns.el index e93c535bbef..4931aeb49cd 100644 --- a/lisp/help-fns.el +++ b/lisp/help-fns.el @@ -234,18 +234,21 @@ help-fns--describe-function-or-command-prompt "Describe function") fn)) (enable-recursive-minibuffers t) - (val (completing-read - prompt - #'help--symbol-completion-table - (lambda (f) (if want-command - (commandp f) - (or (fboundp f) (get f 'function-documentation)))) - ;; We used `confirm' for a while because we may want to see the - ;; meta-info about a function even if the function itself is not - ;; defined, but this use case is too marginal and rarely tested, - ;; not worth the trouble (bug#64902). - t nil nil - (and fn (symbol-name fn))))) + (val (minibuffer-with-setup-hook + (lambda () + (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function nil)) + (completing-read + prompt + #'help--symbol-completion-table + (lambda (f) (if want-command + (commandp f) + (or (fboundp f) (get f 'function-documentation)))) + ;; We used `confirm' for a while because we may want to see the + ;; meta-info about a function even if the function itself is not + ;; defined, but this use case is too marginal and rarely tested, + ;; not worth the trouble (bug#64902). + t nil nil + (and fn (symbol-name fn)))))) (unless (equal val "") (setq fn (intern val))) ;; These error messages are intended to be less technical for the @@ -1269,18 +1272,21 @@ describe-variable (enable-recursive-minibuffers t) (orig-buffer (current-buffer)) val) - (setq val (completing-read - (format-prompt "Describe variable" (and (symbolp v) v)) - #'help--symbol-completion-table - (lambda (vv) - (or (get vv 'variable-documentation) - (and (not (keywordp vv)) - ;; Since the variable may only exist in the - ;; original buffer, we have to look for it - ;; there. - (buffer-local-boundp vv orig-buffer)))) - t nil nil - (if (symbolp v) (symbol-name v)))) + (setq val (minibuffer-with-setup-hook + (lambda () + (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function nil)) + (completing-read + (format-prompt "Describe variable" (and (symbolp v) v)) + #'help--symbol-completion-table + (lambda (vv) + (or (get vv 'variable-documentation) + (and (not (keywordp vv)) + ;; Since the variable may only exist in the + ;; original buffer, we have to look for it + ;; there. + (buffer-local-boundp vv orig-buffer)))) + t nil nil + (if (symbolp v) (symbol-name v))))) (list (if (equal val "") v (intern val))))) (let (file-name @@ -1876,14 +1882,17 @@ describe-symbol (v-or-f (if found v-or-f (function-called-at-point))) (found (or found v-or-f)) (enable-recursive-minibuffers t) - (val (completing-read (format-prompt "Describe symbol" - (and found v-or-f)) - #'help--symbol-completion-table - (lambda (vv) - (cl-some (lambda (x) (funcall (nth 1 x) vv)) - describe-symbol-backends)) - t nil nil - (if found (symbol-name v-or-f))))) + (val (minibuffer-with-setup-hook + (lambda () + (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function nil)) + (completing-read (format-prompt "Describe symbol" + (and found v-or-f)) + #'help--symbol-completion-table + (lambda (vv) + (cl-some (lambda (x) (funcall (nth 1 x) vv)) + describe-symbol-backends)) + t nil nil + (if found (symbol-name v-or-f)))))) (list (if (equal val "") (or v-or-f "") (intern val))))) (let ((help-buffer-under-preparation t)) --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 13 12:31:22 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Nov 2023 17:31:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2amQ-000662-BB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:31:22 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:42125) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2amN-00065k-VH for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:31:20 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DBE1D60006; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 17:30:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <864jhrwfad.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:13:10 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> <864jhrwfad.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 19:17:29 +0200 Message-ID: <86il657qva.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: 64656@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > The problem reported by this bug report is that the order is random by > `C-h v M-n M-n' because it uses obarray. There is no such problem for > `C-x C-f M-n M-n' because the list of default values is truncated > explicitly in `read-file-name-default' by > > (minibuffer-with-setup-hook > (lambda () > (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function > ... > > So maybe to use the same to truncate the list of default values > for `C-h f', `C-h v', `C-h o'? But alas, this won't work for e.g. `C-h w', `C-h S', and other obarray completions. So it's a lose-lose situation. 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No. That is NOT the problem reported. The problem reported is: 1. Initial completions are added to `M-n' automatically, instead of just by a user adding them explicitly to DEFAULTS. 2. Given that BUG, _IF_ it won't be fixed, then the doc should at least make users aware of it and mention how to work around it. Fixing #1 is preferable. Fixing #2 is minimal damage control, IF you won't fix #1. > > There is no such problem for > > `C-x C-f M-n M-n' because the list of default values is truncated > > explicitly in `read-file-name-default' by > > > > (minibuffer-with-setup-hook > > (lambda () > > (setq-local minibuffer-default-add-function > > ... > > > > So maybe to use the same to truncate the list of default values > > for `C-h f', `C-h v', `C-h o'? >=20 > But alas, this won't work for e.g. `C-h w', `C-h S', > and other obarray completions. >=20 > So it's a lose-lose situation. The loss is the introduction of automatically cramming the completion domain ("initial completions") onto the `M-n' queue. Just let programmers themselves control what goes into `M-n', using DEFAULTS. IF anyone really wants to add the completion domain to `M-n' it's trivial to do that, by adding it to DEFAULTS. AFAIK, no one had ever done that, and no one requested the misfeature of adding the domain to `M-n' automatically. We should admit the mistake of introducing this forced polluting of `M-n' and revert that misfeature. Give users back complete control of `M-n' through DEFAULTS - that's what DEFAULTS is for, and its 100% sufficient and flexible for doing the job. 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And? That's the problem. The completion domain ("initial completions") shouldn't be added to the `M-n' queue. At least not by default, and IMHO, never automatically. Any programmer is free to add anything at all to the `M-n' queue, including all of the initial completions, simply by adding it to DEFAULTS. That's what DEFAULTS is for: to add to the `M-n' queue. > > To be very clear, I'm opposed to the misfeature > > of automatically jamming the initial completions > > onto the `M-n' queue. We have arg DEFAULTS for > > that. Callers of `completing-read' etc. can > > provide exactly the list of DEFAULTS they want > > to prepend to the `M-n' queue. >=20 > Indeed, ideally callers of `completing-read' should > provide the exact list of defaults. Why only "ideally"? Anyone is always free to add whatever they want `M-n' using DEFAULTS in their call to `completing-read'. > The problem > is that it's too late to identify the existing callers > and to add an explicit list of defaults to them. _Programmers_ can define DEFAULTS as they like. No one needs to, or should, try to add anything automatically to the `M-n' queue, overriding what a programmer has explicitly decided should be there using DEFAULTS. Or perhaps you mean existing `completing-read' calls in the vanilla Emacs code, not user code? If so, I'd say don't worry about it. Don't second-guess what the `M-n' queue should be for existing `completing-read' calls. Or if you really want to, go ahead, investigate them one by one. Each call to `completing-read' deserves its own=20 consideration wrt DEFAULTS (the `M-n' queue). Nothing should ever automatically trounce what a programmer has explicitly decided should be in the `M-n' queue (with DEFAULTS). > > Don't remove programmer (and user) control by > > smothering `M-n' with the completion candidates. >=20 > This doesn't remove programmer (and user) control > because it's still easy to add own default values > to `M-n' and to remove initial completions from `M-n'. It's not so easy to remove initial completions. At a minimum, how to do that needs to be added to the doc (this bug report). But as Eli said, it's more important to fix the bug of their automatic addition than to document a workaround. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 14 00:58:25 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2023 05:58:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59888 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2mRM-00010T-RC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 00:58:25 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:56787) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2mRK-00010F-58 for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 00:58:23 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53A0E24002A for <64656@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 06:57:34 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1699941454; bh=VPLsKhiaPWFosTT0PSW5Dn62LG/S+UWf++V0XbsW5ho=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Autocrypt:OpenPGP: From; b=mpNADgRNujZvSIjvcZh0XT6KRa65sguCTO69sumRM5sZWLQeWYFvhd8Uw+1DEhIiS uldAgwa80D8wTKY7C1N8GpX9w8XhRpsn6daRTsfbot2K4S91Fq+Qfycb0TJ221LQ/S vmAr1k2NfCobi8ATYl6swyZBAAJ34XXyy83EN/GunFcd5mkMFht8CArWz9pHSM54bH PMXd/n1SBC+h5jNczamK+62u2TZKQfk9TrTYqV3aPPM0uzEZpEaMp6yPBPibCArhdc ezkP2yYE0L+bFHpe8d/P6e6C6iLAC+hFreHn06epWjrBiZOZZgYbitEhcFIdJLLQmz lSNPr78aDj4Ow== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4STwYl4xLwz9rxD; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 06:57:31 +0100 (CET) From: Thierry Volpiatto To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 13 Nov 2023 18:14:15 +0000") References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <86h6m9v1sx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <861qdc1s3s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: <875y24512u.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Autocrypt: addr=thievol@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=xsDNBF8ylcIBDADG+hy+zR6L4/vbdDDZuSaMmSrU3A5QZJpeBCvxTr7MpzzruZbhLPW1K3R6N2MA edi8Y+C8o27FVRIjpdbaKMGu9je7JV/TbUQYo3SOwCK1vM4LUn4V6ZLzSYkuiEt4eyMoiDdyvN0p kcK6P9x9DCetcEVszXzQg+yzCVrQ2hXWDXWT4M18EC3wtO7RHPouMqGiwBFhBAYErCqFWFxQHkfb tG/4yGyJ58rglb65O3qijjMWvYwcWZun9/7qm8Z4/4mHopmo2zgU+OrptnLSZfkZGz3Y7Uf452xQ GVq0Fv75NPvQru7y+DYVhuVXXyAmGxt+vf4rIiixMBbhKEPjcxEPAa2LTzex2IsTZR+QVG9uDnqC WcgaOEQ58fzXNvNhtwwF/Rgio2XWAJVdmFWS59/k9W58CIUSNKBMZh2XeGdEmtHvDtCxW3z6FJha 36RzOM3fMNNiAGdFZJA84gcdloJR+sHCDTTPT3784fjr+V8An7sI581NGFzkRQqPvEQCZbUAEQEA Ac0SdGhpZXZvbEBwb3N0ZW8ubmV0wsEOBBMBCgA4AhsDBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheA FiEEI9twfRN7r3nig/xwDsVtFB0W75MFAmL3HCoACgkQDsVtFB0W75OVEAv/f6XxmtIFz08fUb8h Bp/zJP6IC4/rhhh+0GMRIRzLN8DK0jV8JCzYdFHiRJOy2lNIOpmrrCmjRRxferc2G42+ePFIsslx hU46VSz1Z83NwIG3mpdYNV5WUTUdgzxExHTNTFCd7NKv0nlHKQaAtdXm5bYnSHsnL7cx8z7lukA/ EsJocE+GD7QXnsrdlicvdobI0TEN4l73221a72oCvHfYLCVsB6YsNJ5ZGkA1zSjzln5uLAgZ/2r/ aqlao/AlSZkAk6+hvK0RyAZ/YR4YRZxO8Fsd0gWgFkanRfKfufJ1V0OHZg7yszi3q/hRzS+rZtJ0 OuzDlh/dyQkxVkZb9vis/+HnGDJrBE5MsmJLcy2Sy3uUnio0fq8q9CrZbudvd1DajlZxPzTm0csP eUk45QEgbhEU7MfyAX/mkKxjHajz2cMcHKIap1BqEgJl4BKFeLMcBZ4O1p9ivwtf1Ht2JTp5lOi0 ItPfhQ4DP8LZ1ZIkN5Kg9v0cyw9meRzAuuR0V2GtzsDNBF8ylcIBDADnIDHEkmk4lUwTlOhwb2yj UfmGPnpH3MCCHkjM9H/P1gTHxFWtwFVPcNMCwXWvKSBTF2dZXKERD0yzG06zT53ZMN7EIIeuY6m4 R8IcMvpohciisWxbFoB4ZY117tVSeqjo946itgbpdeESKl9a8dpn7ytZMyYxPdojlQAqxeAJ8444 raESh1oTKXb64hlk4l2pSRlrLgjpJBo8asAfZndaxIUKhw68tV8sqeZh9P6cGtHbUELKVJqefNV7 V7jF5wf3xvRG6Ces3kSKXalLfs+vrVaoOjQeWrc0AtwFWHmt9JLfKrqF+Q2Q7jUidboWmazQM56E SJFPpPHmWq8k6DHspsFHOforLouTHJL1556IPne7IV2BGfWc0+xLxalZ8F5F+vnPF/OkrC1CD5iC KTjXKa2iZbcYdYQAiL6P8Ac8CgN6EkhpbxRtzrEgChuNGevdi/G/GHG4Zqrh6YFwIa/NHq2aVaFq 5C1yNTMJd1FRjRzs5JPPlJKpYDnNx+MSp7UAEQEAAcLA9gQYAQoAIAIbDBYhBCPbcH0Te6954oP8 cA7FbRQdFu+TBQJi9x1ZAAoJEA7FbRQdFu+To6QMAIcvUSiFwCIggxkmYy3ZY0QAMLmIPga8DNPM XbfSOBDb2KLGBd+FAA8p2GExpul4r6kOYnGogtojByHmVgrd30/3ZURTM8Vj51wwD05viMZccQHl Wd9J/qZIvhBJlJWYnwVxh+2Kg4/hkx7SGc7JJS5GS37+PFQOJHPGMxc+fe4Ty2FdjIOVf3P1Hov9 K6yBI7Af66qqcL3aKJ4jJidRYN8sMaKOqEu4rcSpTxp8/3Ddbs9HezUgXeUzOLJMcEYFlvCyC8ZS l/QDZmpobKbxZ1JAqZM8lnmcZYSV7OsWnxJIYDV1gH5LTLj7bGswXaB4B+qkckihWkRZixu8q1IK 0c/xwUzyF092uFRM/sQKrSmnwA1+hQiiIuEl4XVz5li0/TmMta3ijUM7GNbl2IjioTRxWWecwad1 mNHvKTcXPsKDAbHFdLvQzurnroBHQV0jSPNLTP5Suo7RnLbehfg5INpGjToCUlrd2qQqgXW7h5qZ TgUq5UmBc7YZ0JYWQgPTbQ== OpenPGP: url=https://posteo.de/keys/thievol@posteo.net.asc; preference=encrypt X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org>, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Drew Adams writes: > And? That's the problem. The completion domain > ("initial completions") shouldn't be added to > the `M-n' queue. At least not by default, and > IMHO, never automatically. Any programmer is > free to add anything at all to the `M-n' queue, > including all of the initial completions, simply > by adding it to DEFAULTS. That's what DEFAULTS > is for: to add to the `M-n' queue. +1 Please consider reverting this in next release. Thanks. -- Thierry From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 14 02:43:20 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2023 07:43:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59973 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2o4u-0003py-52 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 02:43:20 -0500 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::222]:33375) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2o4s-0003pi-Gt for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 02:43:18 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B50540009; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:42:28 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 13 Nov 2023 18:14:15 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <86h6m9v1sx.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <861qdc1s3s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:28:10 +0200 Message-ID: <86cywcluhe.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> The problem is that it's too late to identify the >> existing callers and to add an explicit list of defaults to them. > > Or perhaps you mean existing `completing-read' > calls in the vanilla Emacs code, not user code? > > If so, I'd say don't worry about it. We can't help but worry because we can't break existing `completing-read' calls. > Don't second-guess what the `M-n' queue should be for > existing `completing-read' calls. Or if you > really want to, go ahead, investigate them one > by one. That's the problem: it's a too big task to check all existing `completing-read' calls to add explicit DEFAULTS. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 14 02:43:26 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2023 07:43:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2o50-0003qH-Eu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 02:43:26 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::223]:53827) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r2o4x-0003pq-T5 for 64656@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 02:43:24 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 680DB60005; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:42:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 13 Nov 2023 18:14:12 +0000") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> <864jhrwfad.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86il657qva.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:30:30 +0200 Message-ID: <86v8a4kfio.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > The problem reported by this bug report is that the order is random by >> > `C-h v M-n M-n' because it uses obarray. > > No. That is NOT the problem reported. The problem > reported is: > > 1. Initial completions are added to `M-n' automatically, > instead of just by a user adding them explicitly to > DEFAULTS. > > 2. Given that BUG, _IF_ it won't be fixed, then the doc > should at least make users aware of it and mention > how to work around it. > > Fixing #1 is preferable. Fixing #2 is minimal damage > control, IF you won't fix #1. #1 can be fixed only partially for some popular obarray completions. So here is a patch that fixes #1 partially and #2 completely. diff --git a/lisp/simple.el b/lisp/simple.el index f86b3f9e208..02005e3b4f9 100644 --- a/lisp/simple.el +++ b/lisp/simple.el @@ -2989,11 +2989,17 @@ minibuffer-default-add-done (defun minibuffer-default-add-completions () "Return a list of all completions without the default value. This function is used to add all elements of the completion table to -the end of the list of defaults just after the default value." +the end of the list of defaults just after the default value. +When you don't want to add initial completions to the default value, +you can use either `minibuffer-setup-hook' or `minibuffer-with-setup-hook' +to set the value of `minibuffer-default-add-function' to nil." (let ((def minibuffer-default) - (all (all-completions "" - minibuffer-completion-table - minibuffer-completion-predicate))) + ;; Avoid some popular completions with undefined order + (all (unless (memq minibuffer-completion-table + `(help--symbol-completion-table ,obarray)) + (all-completions "" + minibuffer-completion-table + minibuffer-completion-predicate)))) (if (listp def) (append def all) (cons def (delete def all))))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 15 12:53:31 2023 Received: (at 64656) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2023 17:53:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r3K4x-0001uX-9d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:53:31 -0500 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::229]:52005) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r3K4v-0001uF-Ku; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:53:30 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACC13FF805; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:53:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#64656: 29.0.91; Doc of minibuffer histories and completing-read - automatic addition of completions to DEFAULT list In-Reply-To: <86v8a4kfio.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:30:30 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83y1jga0nr.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7kb9a40.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg84de3.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86jzrhlrub.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> <867cmw83zb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <867cmvcpco.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86a5rmanrn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83edgyzxcx.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzqqj1u2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r76zpsw.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8aakq69.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sf5exbv2.fsf@gnu.org> <864jhrwfad.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86il657qva.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86v8a4kfio.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 19:52:18 +0200 Message-ID: <86ttpmj44t.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@linkov.net X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64656 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "64656@debbugs.gnu.org" <64656@debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) close 64656 30.0.50 thanks >> 1. Initial completions are added to `M-n' automatically, >> instead of just by a user adding them explicitly to >> DEFAULTS. >> >> 2. Given that BUG, _IF_ it won't be fixed, then the doc >> should at least make users aware of it and mention >> how to work around it. >> >> Fixing #1 is preferable. Fixing #2 is minimal damage >> control, IF you won't fix #1. > > #1 can be fixed only partially for some popular obarray completions. > So here is a patch that fixes #1 partially and #2 completely. Now pushed to master, and closed. From unknown Fri Sep 05 07:33:39 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:24:14 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator