From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 11 14:15:47 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2023 18:15:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51025 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJHtq-000724-PP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:47 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:44814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJHto-00071w-5h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJHtm-0005os-2B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:44 -0400 Received: from mxout5.mail.janestreet.com ([64.215.233.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJHth-0000H1-KL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:41 -0400 From: Spencer Baugh To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:35 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.215.233.18; envelope-from=sbaugh@janestreet.com; helo=mxout5.mail.janestreet.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Tags: patch As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by beginning-of-defun is undesirable in some languages and major modes. I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also arguably unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be indented inside class definitions. Let's let users and major modes make this decision on a case-by-case basis. In GNU Emacs 29.0.92 (build 5, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.15.12, Xaw scroll bars) of 2023-07-10 built on igm-qws-u22796a Repository revision: dd15432ffacbeff0291381c0109f5b1245060b1d Repository branch: emacs-29 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000 System Description: CentOS Linux 7 (Core) Configured using: 'configure --config-cache --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-gif=ifavailable' --=-=-= Content-Type: text/patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Support-not-jumping-to-bol-in-beginning-of-defun.patch >From 12c4f80e046c3c6dd6996e13f332d0eb41d1f1dd Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Spencer Baugh Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:14:34 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by beginning-of-defun is undesirable in some languages and major modes. I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also arguably unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be indented inside class definitions. Let's let users and major modes make this decision on a case-by-case basis. * lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el (beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line): Add variable. (beginning-of-defun): Check variable. --- lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el | 16 +++++++++++++++- 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el index b91d56cfb4f..70c296b2c31 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el @@ -335,6 +335,18 @@ kill-backward-up-list (insert current-sexp)) (user-error "Not at a sexp")))) +(defvar beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line t + "If non-nil, `beginning-of-defun' runs `beginning-of-line' at the end. + +By default, `beginning-of-defun' jumps to the beginning of the +line with `beginning-of-line' after finding the start of the +defun. + +For languages where defuns may be indented inside nested +structures like classes or modules, this behavior may be +undesirable. Major modes for such languages can set this +variable to nil to avoid it.") + (defvar beginning-of-defun-function nil "If non-nil, function for `beginning-of-defun-raw' to call. This is used to find the beginning of the defun instead of using the @@ -376,7 +388,9 @@ beginning-of-defun (and transient-mark-mode mark-active) (push-mark)) (and (beginning-of-defun-raw arg) - (progn (beginning-of-line) t))) + (progn (when beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line + (beginning-of-line)) + t))) (defun beginning-of-defun-raw (&optional arg) "Move point to the character that starts a defun. -- 2.39.3 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 11 14:50:57 2023 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2023 18:50:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51075 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJIRs-00027g-T1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:50:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJIRq-00027P-H9 for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:50:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJIRk-0001D3-H9; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:50:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=PLZbhZGXyKkuPLycUtGVGUL0+JjwwyOMfaUYpStNLmM=; b=eKocryrfTmg8 S3NGcRfTgCUkxqzCF6cLjWF/xd0CMNm/rp2PvHNC91viljdFnolJF+819ExaDy/38LGTMVvQmmz6U rcpI/hdJGotLEk1Vj6D4+ls6bVu2ye1LZ5fQ9EqKiN4TvZz9dLGYqJUlm5YS80cJeXatVwt6YW2CO aAFV6/E4aWVrk9hsp5RydlI7r1jPNkLJmXpELpy8R0tTPHn7ksoDwEx6WfbtDH0rlu7pUKROTGX8t bs26JNR1EyYDEQb/VscSZvg3n8ZcCEg8RKlKQNblMb9Oa/x/QaeEvqqngAfanB2V+wGyz+ddO7gGQ p/NyM5zZfzqfDKKadza/Bg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJIRi-0008H3-Rz; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:50:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 21:50:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Spencer Baugh In-Reply-To: (message from Spencer Baugh on Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:35 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Spencer Baugh > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:35 -0400 > > As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by > beginning-of-defun is undesirable in some languages and major modes. > I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also arguably > unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be indented inside > class definitions. Let's let users and major modes make this decision > on a case-by-case basis. Such optional behavior is fine by me, but is there any evidence enough people will want it? Can you gather some feedback about that? > +(defvar beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line t Why not defcustom? And I would use a shorter name, like beginning-of-defun-go-bol. > + "If non-nil, `beginning-of-defun' runs `beginning-of-line' at the end. This describes implementation, not the behavior. It also assumes everyone knows what exactly beginning-of-line does (think RTL text). > +By default, `beginning-of-defun' jumps to the beginning of the > +line with `beginning-of-line' after finding the start of the > +defun. I see no reason to tell in the doc string how exactly the function goes to BOL. It can even be a problem if at some future point we decide to change the implementation. > +For languages where defuns may be indented inside nested > +structures like classes or modules, this behavior may be > +undesirable. Major modes for such languages can set this > +variable to nil to avoid it.") Not sure we should leave this to major modes and not to the individual users. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 11 22:28:05 2023 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2023 02:28:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJPaH-0005VZ-87 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:28:05 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182]:49409) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJPaF-0005V0-Mf for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:28:04 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1b89cfb4571so48258645ad.3 for <64574@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 19:28:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689128877; x=1691720877; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Yg0YdL7jHcvp138rl0CLZEtdBCbsmwiQ6g3nwKhJQqs=; b=KqoJlyKFyR5gSZhu7YUTKYei9hgbrqAL3NC6z6A0sN3zckwBE7UWoZFqyJvfI0334l AV1rzgPZVkNkAiU8EIET3FB07B/DexPGHPBNU4F9Gdg7QzOm8lHG8PCM5FRw98qXYJ8d nekJCGo+jlzcN5vw9rYj/g3ppaEp56vzqCSwNZyoso7tC35+LXlZlrqAO2Zmf9SnXARy xPi3Cie8VqZkyTXrW64m3I//E9K6siwcbtariNqNs8tZUqsv8reNC8wuOBLSl7nmj7xS XuX6dn1BEf/O7XO1hNm2NLNXWjHzAWnxa8pp948+TeO3LmtLGWOJnrHAE7G5x/bzgvGh ZMBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689128877; x=1691720877; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Yg0YdL7jHcvp138rl0CLZEtdBCbsmwiQ6g3nwKhJQqs=; b=TwXhUAVXf1Eik4isGvaLOx2W7x0GT1j9Cn1lOUI684LoDZgIHxeetaW4LGYhN9Ea+g G3w7YJ6Lv+B5vWxM/BQrESnuMhlbEFzynKYEW7se4n8v4PDAhKC7uApHK4SynZdRaUW5 /XYlz4WlZy4PPIeUvGRvdaS+BwGePRq4CQKR++sX16GTEEiIZqn6Gs/CUUq0jYrG3hfc KvBoSFYDHeGxhu8I9cR4SlTiitov+A7xXWmMzwC2rEIA7l2+MLU5GyEgD7OLnAOUeYYB er+Z6Z/ZOZws6j1nUHiykk0Sw+dTR8FXJ1bf6j0VL6nEmeZTeuF8cSOCtmmUTIwFcexj 8spg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLZyzZyihGmpShueT01o6qykj4jDxxQIW4C3q12P3UYsJu+OLCzR ut+JnSNGLakJ13UmmvwT5zQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlGRvNOgYPHHPMPGn8vo+9+K0RlneQnNp6/8kRmYZh+SaXrOqG3FPHIkMX3NhvvZu7OoDykPMg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e88b:b0:1af:981b:eeff with SMTP id w11-20020a170902e88b00b001af981beeffmr17716672plg.64.1689128877023; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 19:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c11-20020a170902724b00b001b53d3d8f3dsm2602714pll.299.2023.07.11.19.27.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jul 2023 19:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 19:27:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii , Spencer Baugh References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jim Porter In-Reply-To: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 7/11/2023 11:50 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Such optional behavior is fine by me, but is there any evidence enough > people will want it? Can you gather some feedback about that? For what it's worth, I'd probably use this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 12 10:57:59 2023 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2023 14:57:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52773 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJbHy-0001jt-Lj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:59 -0400 Received: from mxout5.mail.janestreet.com ([64.215.233.18]:40763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJbHv-0001jc-VB for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:56 -0400 From: Spencer Baugh To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun In-Reply-To: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 Jul 2023 21:50:58 +0300") References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Spencer Baugh >> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:15:35 -0400 >> >> As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by >> beginning-of-defun is undesirable in some languages and major modes. >> I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also arguably >> unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be indented inside >> class definitions. Let's let users and major modes make this decision >> on a case-by-case basis. > > Such optional behavior is fine by me, but is there any evidence enough > people will want it? Can you gather some feedback about that? Users at my site have expressed a preference for this (including me, once I thought about it enough to realize I don't like the default behavior). And Jim Porter just mentioned that they would prefer this too. >> +(defvar beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line t > > Why not defcustom? > > And I would use a shorter name, like beginning-of-defun-go-bol. Can do. >> + "If non-nil, `beginning-of-defun' runs `beginning-of-line' at the end. > > This describes implementation, not the behavior. It also assumes > everyone knows what exactly beginning-of-line does (think RTL text). > >> +By default, `beginning-of-defun' jumps to the beginning of the >> +line with `beginning-of-line' after finding the start of the >> +defun. > > I see no reason to tell in the doc string how exactly the function > goes to BOL. It can even be a problem if at some future point we > decide to change the implementation. Can do. >> +For languages where defuns may be indented inside nested >> +structures like classes or modules, this behavior may be >> +undesirable. Major modes for such languages can set this >> +variable to nil to avoid it.") > > Not sure we should leave this to major modes and not to the individual > users. > > Thanks. Sure, I'm fine with having it be a defcustom that users can set. Revised patch: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: inline; filename=0001-Support-not-jumping-to-bol-in-beginning-of-defun.patch >From be03d6e994303c3f32d676194f6f31e89917013e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Spencer Baugh Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:14:34 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by beginning-of-defun may be undesirable in some languages and major modes. I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also arguably unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be indented inside class definitions. Let's let the user make this decision. * lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el (beginning-of-defun-go-bol): Add defcustom. (beginning-of-defun): Check beginning-of-defun-go-bol. --- lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el | 20 ++++++++++++++++---- 1 file changed, 16 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el index b91d56cfb4f..e5b024b19a6 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/lisp.el @@ -335,6 +335,17 @@ kill-backward-up-list (insert current-sexp)) (user-error "Not at a sexp")))) +(defcustom beginning-of-defun-go-bol t + "If non-nil, `beginning-of-defun' moves to beginning of line. + +By default, `beginning-of-defun' point moves to the beginning of +the line where a defun starts. For languages where defuns may be +indented inside nested structures like classes or modules, this +behavior may be undesirable." + :type '(choice (const :tag "Don't go to BOL in beginning-of-defun" nil) + (const :tag "Go to BOL in beginning-of-defun" t)) + :group 'lisp) + (defvar beginning-of-defun-function nil "If non-nil, function for `beginning-of-defun-raw' to call. This is used to find the beginning of the defun instead of using the @@ -367,16 +378,17 @@ beginning-of-defun value is called as a function, with argument ARG, to find the defun's beginning. -Regardless of the values of `defun-prompt-regexp' and -`beginning-of-defun-function', point always moves to the -beginning of the line whenever the search is successful." +If `beginning-of-defun-go-bol' is non-nil, point moves to the +beginning of the line if the search is successful." (interactive "^p") (or (not (eq this-command 'beginning-of-defun)) (eq last-command 'beginning-of-defun) (and transient-mark-mode mark-active) (push-mark)) (and (beginning-of-defun-raw arg) - (progn (beginning-of-line) t))) + (progn (when beginning-of-defun-go-bol + (beginning-of-line)) + t))) (defun beginning-of-defun-raw (&optional arg) "Move point to the character that starts a defun. -- 2.39.3 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 22 09:16:56 2023 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2023 13:16:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35660 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNCTf-0006Hj-PD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 09:16:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qNCTd-0006HW-Mw for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 09:16:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNCTW-00059R-WD; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 09:16:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1U6Vl69jPqUju9OQx6tgmXnRoAMLMEc8wX1z+Esg2Y0=; b=XmkLlOgTn98q ZXDYlXt8BQkpQkYHOiL9+4txRbJsoPwK6sEVM2vQabfHp8N9XAG0SiEhMcEjM1kaNPi/8+VkMlfyk k5uP0TjNFKPXpD0A4MNBa70zrs5PhXPTOElwsBbCMOhNOX2hRLpyW0AVERP09nw+fj8LEt25Ztqjf NO6y5RkhR9EvA4RqknWRO1Wrkkv/tE/97NG7HuiKWuwh1TrWcxrWb7XM62elyi2B63xB7keKuasx8 skjSC3J07ulxJ1NvNSnKaEWLZjppivNIBjAQZaJ0Qz/U2IkyeE9Ljqr28hUmHugJkRU3DdxQy7suk DxrEo0aju0lOes2fhMGt1g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qNCTV-0000xS-TP; Sat, 22 Jul 2023 09:16:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 16:17:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Spencer Baugh In-Reply-To: (message from Spencer Baugh on Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Spencer Baugh > Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400 > > Revised patch: Thanks. Please add a NEWS entry, and we can install this then. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 03 07:44:49 2023 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2023 11:44:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qclX7-0004X1-D9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 07:44:49 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]:60424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qclX5-0004Wg-Ac for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 07:44:48 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-500a398cda5so1018235e87.0 for <64574@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 04:44:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693741471; x=1694346271; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QHaCsudUza42Gqvn8vrQMeNB5U+nLSeRjo8BT0eqTHs=; b=FSsqcsQH5o4HY7lUYOaofJo2uoD7jZh7UqCWgJTrq5EtRLO89HxT8fiYt5nZEEcdQN ZICl/eT37NeUX9m/bhtPVnI3tK76M9Ina5Fpep/woYVwIpicYeI63q4X6NwtvEzretJT LGmffv8wmyA82h9y2s7jJjd/VzrHRqEJ7YKTbpqiMlbDfpdfRg+WUm3JnVt1E2l5D/SY jQ6k+TNK5aC9mTka3guygN2ynSNJupB84YI1eZ+svOnnwjHC8ytrF7Bhh60y57qXnyKw 8RRdQLQ0Pdrr+PT260vUDjXH6K41taI5iPIMtqvyRJJb8UskKMmd1dJqbRUuAFoKHKaF 3e5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693741471; x=1694346271; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QHaCsudUza42Gqvn8vrQMeNB5U+nLSeRjo8BT0eqTHs=; b=HvMQ01hvqt8k9ZbpVfKpBq/hBvWZAu9hdX9ONEVuJbjVQFnCemMAuwVni3uvJNKzNp QB6cjdrEc1uTlyB8qShezmHUO1OfZcrwTw3MPDZZppe+PYcfNXeklMDTzbCTFOeha6Kz HeZF1Tbck3aLl/fOC9+vdMbWnfBu2j9Qtrq+q6qXqKnM9wdRBTKNyHQ6QN4kjEZnZTVE 2xg9TlSW2z9G/MTUIKuIU0JBPznO15SOqOtOMpuLC2ROoXB7gak4R112cXIk03uZWDK3 I/fvxdsPF3xcN33q/ryNRxgag2MYqb7shnzE2E0vx4HkRKSaSxuRn7jnOHo3YrxhDBJs rwxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx3s04n7ZfMn4xA5nDs0HzRgDNgpC3gV1iz07Zm7YbgdpJ0qhVf m1bAJaGNC2ezLk4R1y/roWhqePWmZIFd39qxsqI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHfQDg+Xb+4rLCYgRJs3IabiHfK+K2O8r+r38n/5Ua+u2tHokgFKdeurTZRhDcO1+zZZU3ieMrGvR0D3/9l3rg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:4845:b0:4f8:74b5:b4ec with SMTP id ep5-20020a056512484500b004f874b5b4ecmr4994338lfb.41.1693741470890; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 04:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 3 Sep 2023 04:44:30 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Spencer Baugh's message of "Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400") References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 04:44:30 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun To: Spencer Baugh Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Spencer Baugh writes: > Users at my site have expressed a preference for this (including me, > once I thought about it enough to realize I don't like the default > behavior). And Jim Porter just mentioned that they would prefer this > too. I'd use it too. >>> +(defvar beginning-of-defun-go-beginning-of-line t >> >> Why not defcustom? >> >> And I would use a shorter name, like beginning-of-defun-go-bol. > > Can do. Perhaps `beginning-of-defun-jumps-to-bol'? >>>From be03d6e994303c3f32d676194f6f31e89917013e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Spencer Baugh > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:14:34 -0400 > Subject: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun > > As mentioned in the commit, this default behavior by > beginning-of-defun may be undesirable in some languages and major > modes. I'm thinking of OCaml in particular here, but it's also > arguably unwanted in Python and C++ as well, where defs may be > indented inside class definitions. Let's let the user make this > decision. Your patch still lacks a NEWS item before it can be installed. 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Sat, 22 Feb 2025 22:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:40:44 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:40:44 +0000 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZn4pfcf66RFdHwpV3p7xdR_CVOr7qi8Yti_1BqszXmxv5mMgtkktsDfMdk Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: Spencer Baugh , 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Spencer Baugh >> Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400 >> >> Revised patch: > > Thanks. Please add a NEWS entry, and we can install this then. Actually, thinking about this, we use this function not just as a command, but also in a lot of code that is built on the assumption that point moves to point zero. So wouldn't installing this, as proposed, risk leading to a lot of things breaking? 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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:15:03 +0200 Message-Id: <867c5hi13c.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:40:44 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: sbaugh@janestreet.com, 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:40:44 +0000 > Cc: Spencer Baugh , 64574@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Spencer Baugh > >> Cc: 64574@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:57:50 -0400 > >> > >> Revised patch: > > > > Thanks. Please add a NEWS entry, and we can install this then. > > Actually, thinking about this, we use this function not just as a > command, but also in a lot of code that is built on the assumption that > point moves to point zero. What do you mean by "point zero"? > So wouldn't installing this, as proposed, risk leading to a lot of > things breaking? The default behavior is unchanged. As for when users change the default, the only difference is that beginning-of-defun will end not necessarily at column zero, but at some other column in the same line, where the function's declaration begins. I don't see how this could break things, but maybe I'm missing something? Can you point to places where we assume pointy is at column zero after calling beginning-of-defun? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 23 09:16:12 2025 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2025 14:16:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59996 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmCm8-0003MR-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:16:12 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]:48328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmCm2-0003Lt-6A for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:16:06 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5dedae49c63so6525060a12.0 for <64574@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:16:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740320156; x=1740924956; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ytouz1aKFqZ28QJiLh6ep9hKCi9HNNu/JBjuxUFDtag=; b=a9prJL6mi/we8SFaBgfG6FhuyOP7vkxnfabxc3AG3xTKdyoT8nea6e4AJ5natbR07R EGKBnlbOMJLeoKpH2OTs0RQ5xX/gE1xNQRxe1YmRNmRLnoNJeK5wOeBm9bwEwSlQKSYf WjtnnXpc12yeo5WoPAgibn0abXM+/UGrjf7HA78fHhoVSMSJrIQVz5ovQ/X5aSMHq+kH xaSLE7oMUsudFAfQqt+CXDPo/3U6o+EuN2uq4I2YGwDPdN8ODKNN/xeLtjailm6Jn4z3 bPMza1i6g7+Cckjhqkg620QLZEBtrSoYod8cB2j1RE7w4Gx8DygPX2mmnIbX60RK0jY0 PQ4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740320156; x=1740924956; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ytouz1aKFqZ28QJiLh6ep9hKCi9HNNu/JBjuxUFDtag=; b=dEsL1uOVXWrBhDLQNC0iDWtYmiLoSTMstdSr2NBmLCoBEx5JzGs7hblY98pnFvTQYi OQQAMAVl4d+6pczesGSwxLFL2oQPwYia99ev2/HuUskZNv03HHvwOUS1GB0vlO+ecoxq +wlnusb9L4letdQjeykFhL9mzS3QKzWPBkzb3Ao24GEQHVzfw0B2dGsE+o3f3LPxmmQK tcHpslkfrQsOURs4bcV3jKQlN0rSsU14JD1szTsweBcLkOcGyfpSzwT+SQuSCfK/YQzf JDfzVMtQLOTX8HdBKfrPMObZ9oDUX5tUu8EehTAecpBnpZYQ1twLL3TgeIICf6IO9vZM H3hA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUU7FGNXzeF4aG054Uy04yw2w85p0ZaWV0Vp/Wx9NiebXJIgLhbnzCX99mU42gnn2yCVL1P1w==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzJV6tk20MFOfSWNOAY8bbSCB4kMao0gFCCIhh/19bq1o8kUlcw Ogru5KPzpXAdWFcE7GgD+lxXa/F9caQCJQcKP6qDt2faF0ptQVjB9vazEi3eLDmQtdAqXFrd+5d rMf2WHmVzfilw1Vt1IY+TVto5qDQ= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvOsg9vIgRtISy+8gcaG8B8XyHyEBe0tREteZASxdPImTc9LUDwMZoxh4VvFBk ox2odj2jS25YJGGDNOadnaBh5x6lqbv9/8j3Q+rjwiaDL4rdNRW7AAwUdP1e4NmSGj8X9xc4ncc TfR0j0KxT5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE+NT7mkSPAcvOsXGqSe6kzdHwdSJxqWrQUmn4wtLbsbMG6SsGMuZ/YwOfHKxdZAMMFGfbqqXJae+tZgtWy/FE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:440b:b0:5e0:52df:d569 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e0b7252db5mr10722318a12.28.1740320155805; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:15:55 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <867c5hi13c.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> <867c5hi13c.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:15:55 +0000 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZlj5cpYgwCYe9gtbTJLPyyd22-PrtQxvjuI89RkoF4dfyTcHzuxTVooMAI Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: sbaugh@janestreet.com, 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Actually, thinking about this, we use this function not just as a >> command, but also in a lot of code that is built on the assumption that >> point moves to point zero. > > What do you mean by "point zero"? Sorry, typo. I meant to say "column zero". >> So wouldn't installing this, as proposed, risk leading to a lot of >> things breaking? > > The default behavior is unchanged. As for when users change the > default, the only difference is that beginning-of-defun will end not > necessarily at column zero, but at some other column in the same line, > where the function's declaration begins. I don't see how this could > break things, but maybe I'm missing something? Can you point to > places where we assume pointy is at column zero after calling > beginning-of-defun? I can't point to any specific such places no, but grepping for `beginning-of-defun` yields a concerning number of hits, especially in progmodes. Note that the assumption that it always goes to column zero has been documented since forever. Who knows how this is used in the wild. IOW, yes, the behavior is optional, but my concern is that when users set it, modes will start breaking. I still think it could be useful, but perhaps it should be a defvar and under the control of major modes? OTOH, then we have minor modes, but maybe it's used less frequently there? If someone could look into this more and run some experiments, perhaps we can convince ourselves that this is fine after all, but to me this currently feels a bit risky. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 23 09:30:56 2025 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2025 14:30:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60036 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmD0R-0004Bs-T7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:30:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmD0N-0004BS-Hl for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:30:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tmD0H-0005bf-Ex; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:30:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=INR0xlfkLvJK5PerHXBa9zAyhpn/favfABAEuEzNpOQ=; b=nMlMiucqxuFe IR5/IMzN8pMDizLttX2TDFHqeE4PLTvNXg8gHKNH0I7JaO7PGnviaD1zb8tDIIVZeMEde8BLpL1ee uUz1Bnb2uedhglUBDK4t+nV9SoZgMkn/I3BlYNw+KX4IqCMbisVGLK9IHg27HN9n0rrvQxiaeLgxn ObW6Ndlg0256Qf3nSKmd3I/21cSftoOVUqHr943MF+Y9pp9hvVqT3RLj1xxu0CT+mhTn9TFITqFT8 rnhOiNjH0tks25sreefDKWiVOe2M0fnho9NGKsqKZonnFYa3P9CX6aR9G0tEdZ6eVITYdi9NRb497 yGfgV6V7OXo6pN5E2RlK8w==; Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:30:42 +0200 Message-Id: <86r03ohgx9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:15:55 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> <867c5hi13c.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: sbaugh@janestreet.com, 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:15:55 +0000 > Cc: sbaugh@janestreet.com, 64574@debbugs.gnu.org > > > The default behavior is unchanged. As for when users change the > > default, the only difference is that beginning-of-defun will end not > > necessarily at column zero, but at some other column in the same line, > > where the function's declaration begins. I don't see how this could > > break things, but maybe I'm missing something? Can you point to > > places where we assume pointy is at column zero after calling > > beginning-of-defun? > > I can't point to any specific such places no, but grepping for > `beginning-of-defun` yields a concerning number of hits, especially in > progmodes. Note that the assumption that it always goes to column zero > has been documented since forever. Who knows how this is used in the wild. > > IOW, yes, the behavior is optional, but my concern is that when users > set it, modes will start breaking. I hope the users who Spencer say like it tested that in at least some situations? > I still think it could be useful, but perhaps it should be a defvar > and under the control of major modes? OTOH, then we have minor > modes, but maybe it's used less frequently there? Is this major-mode specific? > If someone could look into this more and run some experiments, perhaps > we can convince ourselves that this is fine after all, but to me this > currently feels a bit risky. I suggested to make it a user option because Spencer indicated users liked that behavior. User preferences should be expressed in user options, not in just variables. But if you feel uneasy, I won't object to making it a simple variable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 23 10:07:57 2025 Received: (at 64574) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2025 15:07:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmDaH-0006oh-Ca for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 10:07:57 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:44292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tmDaF-0006o9-Fz for 64574@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 10:07:56 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e0813bd105so6079222a12.1 for <64574@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:07:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740323269; x=1740928069; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mPolJLyZrqckU2ymwy5p5mLE22byYN5mDDcvZd/qV+U=; b=FqSei9OfeE8Pe5DstE4Fs087aMuEJVhJ37G6hLZfKJerDRrsjNVPwJ+kp1GzCEslkB TE8NafEsO++XkX85v1TZS7Nfn0d4fbqq9szyxXjWhSba77VN3gJeqBy9zXNuBYcXwOIy 84tdo4pXWgf9zTw/nzi5iey6qC0bQThBe30x2XqdOnb7KVZuHJRv6lYffmlpymYRFKq9 8IVIEMHXUrXiirorWDxpVeqxs/IXaSqot6/+mHR1xsAUAwt1mha0Y5a/2OyIO4n+9yOD /Pfy9M1yjmK4tBGeSxnFkaARXeTt5sryKasnnbzCL0uebpjTp8OpHt/CSkQURySstGc7 bTUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740323269; x=1740928069; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mPolJLyZrqckU2ymwy5p5mLE22byYN5mDDcvZd/qV+U=; b=P5l887GxZnxkyI+qQL2Tj9rbkQy8Avi8Er/tjLmM2SNIuivNLj8MMp5Oweqv3jxtgV BNXlQImtmelKf9msOEXQnqh2hIt58NNKYk35Icra3ZfqmNVYSPJWLDGHjSnRswBRxjXb x2EPfT1YaNVIQUVAydD13dPJZngf6Iddxey0dWfLRE352O+SyZmsTfW3namVW5n+2iZ1 j9BdtSe7C+Del+Df+fFAh3Nri+m3ynVnh3PNFwX0YrYsdqxCfmXlzRPmaZf3RoQVQNuf I8mrjU8h336m8ZDEzjrmfTSy1ZGIr7MLLIQktsBhDyrxZBlZtTFA4PqLe5Zk5Lw/dE6a D2hQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWXgE1ibRTphiTJeM70Pf555ojr9ldUHEYSczNF4eLBRnVKWwSykrYq0ZQf4ZcGpaFGy32/7g==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwIy5Ty3WxHWK+Sq9AZ7zVcoxXEWzGk6kFLJnFbnT4ND/wH7IGC ZPRLoLYD0+syqs1PtDynRz7BZSbpqisFLTDvw7whm+gErrqU5ZJa67UUUNtyVqyuL3TiZjEpdmn Q3w0gFp+m5NsGrYCXVrBRoXi+PUU= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsQOgv/ygAaC6reVzP3/OxwXBVlKc1IkSY0OyW+CjNyaqqahtc0Cv4euV14Hzm EkI9tBPh8Jt/SLb4BaBWiNcvYRHbyYIp83GHQxatNlF0GTNAgWQZPdKRUlbdblJom690WGCsvKK hRmkyspD9p X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHh0NKQrl+Tf/G6vqqTi6hS/FX41NsV72TY7LcyI7JH+qiFW7HLCN8Ct55ybEZCv53Jgk7f7ndw2WudLAqBncs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2114:b0:5db:731d:4456 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e0b7246cafmr10214478a12.28.1740323268955; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 15:07:47 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86r03ohgx9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edle704t.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6pw84re.fsf@gnu.org> <867c5hi13c.fsf@gnu.org> <86r03ohgx9.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 15:07:47 +0000 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZliKBpGaVHo6p5scgICsnbJOBrfghtElVGYkcq3R0au0UwGmEzeAsimCIY Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#64574: [PATCH] Support not jumping to bol in beginning-of-defun To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64574 Cc: sbaugh@janestreet.com, 64574@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I hope the users who Spencer say like it tested that in at least some > situations? I would like to hear specific reports, to be honest. For example, when I said that "I'll probably use it", I hadn't really tested it. Hopefully not everyone is as irresponsible as I was. :-) >> I still think it could be useful, but perhaps it should be a defvar >> and under the control of major modes? OTOH, then we have minor >> modes, but maybe it's used less frequently there? > > Is this major-mode specific? I believe that it might be, e.g. in C and Lisp functions almost always start at column 0, but in C++, Python, OCaml and so on you can have additional indentation. This might be true for any language that has classes, so Ruby, JavaScript, etc. > I suggested to make it a user option because Spencer indicated users > liked that behavior. User preferences should be expressed in user > options, not in just variables. > > But if you feel uneasy, I won't object to making it a simple variable. Maybe I forgot to mention this, but if we make it a variable, then major mode authors that use it will also have a chance to adapt to it and fix any potential bugs. We can also keep the option to turn it into a defcustom later. Perhaps my concerns will turn out to be overblown with more experience.