From unknown Sat Aug 16 19:20:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#64518: 29.0.92; outline-mode sexp movement commands don't follow outline structure Resent-From: Spencer Baugh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 16:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 64518 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 64518@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.168874688112284 (code B ref -1); Fri, 07 Jul 2023 16:22:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2023 16:21:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43670 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qHoCv-0003C4-FD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:21 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:39922) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qHoCr-0003Bs-Hd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHoCr-000571-B2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:17 -0400 Received: from mxout5.mail.janestreet.com ([64.215.233.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHoCp-00025v-QB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:17 -0400 From: Spencer Baugh Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:14 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.215.233.18; envelope-from=sbaugh@janestreet.com; helo=mxout5.mail.janestreet.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) This is more of a feature request. Functions like C-M-f (forward-sexp) and C-M-SPC (mark-sexp) are supposed to be configured by individual modes to behave in a way appropriate for that mode. But outline-mode does not do this. For example, C-M-b/C-M-f ({backward,forward}-sexp) could behave like outline-{backward,forward}-same-level, since that's analogous to how they behave in Lisp. C-M-SPC could behave like outline-mark-subtree. C-M-u could back out of the current heading, up to the next level, lke outline-up-heading. And so on. Since these are the standard Emacs structured editing commands, it would be good for outline-mode to customize them to have the correct "structured" behavior. (Probably behind some defcustom, since this would be a behavior change) Right now they are much less useful than they could otherwise be... From unknown Sat Aug 16 19:20:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#64518: 29.0.92; outline-mode sexp movement commands don't follow outline structure Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 18:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64518 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Spencer Baugh Cc: 64518@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 64518-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64518.1688753993735 (code B ref 64518); Fri, 07 Jul 2023 18:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 64518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2023 18:19:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qHq3c-0000Bm-Mk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:19:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50012) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qHq3a-0000BO-13 for 64518@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:19:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHq3M-0007uw-Dh; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:19:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=H6XTHw5WzlL/aR97drPaVXcD0ibHM3fxdm2p+uz/n30=; b=XeTq0WdeeU6d ftXNjmuUiMBprWmXxSKHAZTUVHTvlpl/Q48jqzBJrGaCjAaq/7dyaz2hDIjrPlXsjaHKxnDCctFnw OIU6kNyCjzkV+V7xaj15+5+8lOR1rloFjwjuuDCNnZ9KwKY0xiAg2VBhRuqwqlR0Siy/38Txhi/N0 aPo/9vwUybSpPcCMj8obSynyoOaYpQoicLNEIMPdCnVF1KF4f4FdOM9sw7VoOHWKXDKFnJHd9RNkc kvNYicnpu3v7OnYU8j8DUblPu4MgEoRyr6Cwt8nqpqVIot3KJAPvUyY40ShgXCkP62OmMAWnXfuNU Ej4heCGYg0EzdDKSZJn52A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHq3L-0005wc-UR; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:19:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 21:19:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8eveg90.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Spencer Baugh on Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:14 -0400) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Spencer Baugh > Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:14 -0400 > > > Functions like C-M-f (forward-sexp) and C-M-SPC (mark-sexp) are supposed > to be configured by individual modes to behave in a way appropriate for > that mode. But outline-mode does not do this. outline-mode is not a programming-language mode, so sexp-related commands make no sense for it. It is more related to text-mode. Outline mode and its derivatives already have motion commands that move in terms of headings and trees/subtrees. I see no reason to confuse users with some kind of artificial notion of "sexps" applied to text. So I think your feature request is a step in the wrong direction. From unknown Sat Aug 16 19:20:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#64518: 29.0.92; outline-mode sexp movement commands don't follow outline structure Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 21:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64518 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Spencer Baugh Cc: 64518@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 64518-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64518.169412237810389 (code B ref 64518); Thu, 07 Sep 2023 21:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 64518) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2023 21:32:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41531 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeMcT-0002hV-G1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:32:57 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]:49313) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeMcM-0002h1-Of for 64518@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:32:54 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-501cba1ec0aso2360071e87.2 for <64518@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:32:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694122363; x=1694727163; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9bjmO7dRp0bnPm0y3KALtwbS0a8aRPKnAuZ6qckxpdE=; b=i6nB766rtWKlamjasMMy9E3RCgfS6KZy8pOcOQXxuM8GpX7iFbS0+Y7rr3I8MRXDBZ NT/8dpbKrUUtkJtzYOWqtS2FK4VeJVGAgCwqUPgmDdhrbzfWm1OlBEaoDHH4dN66zH/P CMSnrVrSZBR5E2QMiNobnsjvWBY7sjbcO18Du+XLWdlnSMpQbt/x1fOtDIjKDs6lCI9R GaawnZGG5h+PSN6J8r4GEsMMrfzVqBDPcAoFHGzy9fxA6So8fLjerm/iOpuTkwHLHc2G /e8XKMA8JTeG4wHkktvQJjiAHh06+L8RnxYH+Ps2D7N1U6mmKmczi+BcOjd8QZtD1h1B 0zOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694122363; x=1694727163; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9bjmO7dRp0bnPm0y3KALtwbS0a8aRPKnAuZ6qckxpdE=; b=Ll/Sa37UgdYMagbGruqWkLYUwooDeujYEN0U9sqFakit59Jod3ha/NJEz/CnQ8doHG RmN0mCGt3AKiBOM25oeYgxXgJfvRzbejA5bqXvOnPZJeQULBpC2KhV5ig1jL4QoJuL1e WPi0wzodiO0b9b9zUBqZl/oG1YIqT4vP/PNJLD7Cj+YHj1A+J5iJ5r4fGaK1osxHvPre HrbERSFEIOnSVr8mVjKM67WU05nwEdeHwzPKX2xACvuIIDawsin2wg81NbvIU/hv/fT7 KYKPzP2QII39GcfIDfDjym2udGP87yk4LoZdxhfxjRsuWB1vzmfqIPkmKlaXL5HWF5xj Kc4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwMt6bINb5PY2wmlKYzZo0ISjWQW/WxANGGWi6tRYvE48sfJjDh PR6ys/iIbRa9nKYFt/tfZoMVBmtqSDnJjxLCNcc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHO+C0YiZRzOdzv1iaDS2ZAcr934abA1nXR4Loj6iBHsdmtmCOZKMvnZdfdkLxtn86nG5RYkaaYEs/f3WV/+x8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1103:b0:4ff:a04c:8a5b with SMTP id l3-20020a056512110300b004ffa04c8a5bmr511690lfg.47.1694122362624; Thu, 07 Sep 2023 14:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 7 Sep 2023 14:32:42 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83v8eveg90.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83v8eveg90.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 14:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 64518 + wontfix close 64518 thanks Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Spencer Baugh >> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:21:14 -0400 >> >> >> Functions like C-M-f (forward-sexp) and C-M-SPC (mark-sexp) are supposed >> to be configured by individual modes to behave in a way appropriate for >> that mode. But outline-mode does not do this. > > outline-mode is not a programming-language mode, so sexp-related > commands make no sense for it. It is more related to text-mode. > > Outline mode and its derivatives already have motion commands that > move in terms of headings and trees/subtrees. I see no reason to > confuse users with some kind of artificial notion of "sexps" applied > to text. > > So I think your feature request is a step in the wrong direction. I agree, and I'm therefore closing this as wontfix. Sorry.