From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 18 13:29:58 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2023 17:29:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54920 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qAwDu-00027W-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:29:58 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:37938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qAwDq-00027M-VA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:29:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAwDq-0003Yf-AS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:29:54 -0400 Received: from mr6.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.166]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAwDn-0007Gq-BF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:29:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1687109388; bh=tL8hRoWVtdm8tjsuaYrD5F3My8xORdsIci5RXPhL0+w=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Content-Language:From:To: Subject:From; b=bvZBhNX5PqMf9nSYZFbenja0Ad02+uhY/aW9B5QIvRNrgh41FLAD61pDir1bo1soZ gWpw/adbsfw94oNPuCbMUUxUlzm0C4T0glGC7n2W/0lLSPgUVGffwlUjcFIyngYM39 Ikx3DeiqKpSDKSarSGpyLQWywBj7Er5ZAQzGo5UM= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr6.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QkfzJ3Fplz1xxM for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.74] (p54a6dbed.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.219.237]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QkfzD0BWRzHnHZ for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:29:40 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------T3JbsiOLuEIXL0ccXHuI0wt7" Message-ID: <130c4813-6fcc-ba20-75a8-162e266194c1@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:29:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 11637 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1687109384-398550CB-96958B2A/0/0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=145.253.228.166; envelope-from=jschmidt4gnu@vodafonemail.de; helo=mr6.vodafonemail.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------T3JbsiOLuEIXL0ccXHuI0wt7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tags: patch Attached is a patch with a first draft on some additions to epa.texi. Eli has reviewed that already, will provide his review comments in the next update and continue to update this bug as needed. This is related to bug#63627, where I noticed that some user documentation in epa.texi would also help better understanding and using plstore.el. --------------T3JbsiOLuEIXL0ccXHuI0wt7 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="epa.texi.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="epa.texi.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2RvYy9taXNjL2VwYS50ZXhpIGIvZG9jL21pc2MvZXBhLnRleGkKaW5k ZXggNmY2M2EzZDdiYTAuLmY0MTZlOWViNjY3IDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9kb2MvbWlzYy9lcGEu dGV4aQorKysgYi9kb2MvbWlzYy9lcGEudGV4aQpAQCAtNjEsNiArNjEsNyBAQCBUb3AKICog UXVpY2sgc3RhcnQ6OgogKiBDb21tYW5kczo6CiAqIEdudVBHIHZlcnNpb24gY29tcGF0aWJp bGl0eTo6CisqIEdudVBHIFBpbmVudHJ5OjoKICogQ2FjaGluZyBQYXNzcGhyYXNlczo6CiAq IEJ1ZyBSZXBvcnRzOjoKICogR05VIEZyZWUgRG9jdW1lbnRhdGlvbiBMaWNlbnNlOjogIFRo ZSBsaWNlbnNlIGZvciB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50YXRpb24uCkBAIC03Miw3ICs3Myw4IEBAIFRv cAogQG5vZGUgT3ZlcnZpZXcKIEBjaGFwdGVyIE92ZXJ2aWV3CiAKLUVhc3lQRyBBc3Npc3Rh bnQgcHJvdmlkZXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBmZWF0dXJlcy4KK0Vhc3lQRyBBc3Npc3RhbnQg 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(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qkg2S4XxrzMm7K for <64154@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:32:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 19:32:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Fwd: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt To: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 5719 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1687109552-8AFF9023-E9C6ED89/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 10:44:08 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt CC: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 20:00:12 +0200 > From: Jens Schmidt > > Hi, > > I have been setting up GnuPG for Emacs/EPA lately for transparent file > encryption and decryption, and done so for the first time. I've > condensed my experiences in some additions to the EPA texi file, see > attached patch. Of course, such experiences are highly personal, but at > least on Stackoverflow others have been struggling with the same issues > as I did ... > > This patch still needs some brushing up, and some splitting up probably > as well. It is based on emacs-29. Please in the future post patches via "M-x report-emacs-bug". > +You can use EasyPG Assistant without any Emacs or GnuPG configuration > +whatsoever, for example to encrypt and decrypt files automatically > +with symmetric encryption, @xref{Encrypting/decrypting gpg files}. ^^^^^ You want "see @ref" here, not @xref. The latter is only pertinent at the beginning of a sentence, because it produces a capitalized "See". > +When you save a buffer, say, to file @file{foo.gpg} for the first > +time, EasyPG Assistant presents you a list of keys in a new buffer > +@file{*Keys*} where you can select recipients for encryption. I don't think "new" is right here: Emacs generally reuses buffers that already exist. I'd drop "new" there. > +@xref{Key management} for a description of the format of that buffer. ^ Comma missing there. Some old version of Texinfo need it. > +You can streamline this recipient selection step by customizing > +variables @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} and @code{epa-file-select-keys}, > +see below. Instead of "see below", please add a cross-reference to the node where these variables are documented. > +If you have created your own keypair@footnote{For encryption and > +decryption of files you do not intend to share you do not have to use ^ A comma is missing there. > +also use some free-form string that gives information on the use of > +the keypair, like @code{backup} or @code{account database}.} you can ^ Another comma missing there. > +encryption for that file. Since encryption is performed with your > +public key, no passphrase is prompted for the buffer save, but you > +will be prompted for your passphrase for file reads every now and > +then, depending on the gpg-agent cache configuration. Passive voice alert! > +@xref{Caching Passphrases} for more information. ^ Comma after the closing brace is missing. > +As of June 2023, there are three active branches of GnuPG: 2.4, > +2.2, and 1.4. All those branches should work flawlessly with Emacs > with basic use-cases. They have, however, some incompatible > characteristics, which might be visible when used from Emacs. Given the known issues with GnuPG 2.4.1, do we need to say something about that here? > +@node GnuPG Pinentry > +@chapter GnuPG Pinentry Pleased add an index entry for the subject of this chapter. In general, it is a good idea to have an index entry for each chapter/section/subsection naming is main subject. > +@enumerate > +@item Use Emacs only for GnuPG requests that are triggered by Emacs itself, > +@item use Emacs for all GnuPG requests, or > +@item use Emacs for all GnuPG requests with other Pinentry as fallback. The capitalization if these items is inconsistent. > +FIXME: Brush the following paragraphs up. ?? > +1.: Ensure allow-loopback-pinentry is is configured for the GPG agent, > +which should be the default. Configure epg-pinentry-mode to > +`loopback. > + > +2.: Make pinentry-emacs the default pinentry by means of your > +operating system. Install package pinentry from GNU ELPA and execute > +M-x pinentry-start to start the Pinentry service. All GnuPG > +passphrase requests should result in a minibuffer prompt in the > +running Emacs. If Emacs or pinentry service are not running, > +passphrase requests fail. > + > +3.: Ensure other Pinentry supports Emacs prompt. pinentry-curses > +does, for example. Configure option allow-emacs-pinentry in > +gpg-agent.conf. Set environment variable INSIDE_EMACS for the calling > +process. Install package pinentry. Now if Emacs is running and > +pinentry-start has been exeucted, all GnuPG passphrase requests should > +result in a minibuffer prompt in the running Emacs. If Emacs or > +Pinentry service are not running, GnuPG uses the regular Pinentry > +instead. > + > +First alternative can be configured in addition to onw of the others: > +Requests triggered from within Emacs (like opening a gpg-encrypted > +file) are handled through loopback pinentry, Requests outside of emacs > +through pinentry feature. > + > +Note that the selection of a concrete Pinentry program determines only > +@emph{how} GnuPG queries for passphrases and not @emph{how often}. > +For the latter question @xref{Caching Passphrases}. This doesn't seem to be finalized? > +need to re-enter the passphrase occasionally. However, the > +configuration is a bit confusing since it depends on your GnuPG > +installation @xref{GnuPG version compatibility}, encryption method ^^^^^ Here, a @pxref in parentheses is TRT. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 29 17:11:02 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2023 21:11:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qEyus-0006xq-3P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2023 17:11:02 -0400 Received: from mr5.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.165]:53680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qEyun-0006xJ-FN for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2023 17:11:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688073052; bh=hXqApNg0o1asKSzJ4ArBe8eK+OQGCEzUJCm9RaIFspw=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:From:To: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=IRcpFOoimXc2mYvu+VvCEgjXvATRD6s/SZnQeBJBe2GKjEcf7URswP+ZDN819byQo I6rEcF2CtXUsjcXampqTqrmmP2u6IFB/M/AcyPHa8ytJEELlC76dArW1ZULBu9p17g FcMRzmV04uaSnaKJgUMwMDB+6RRnkMjhC0BnEz2Q= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr5.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QsWMJ0lvgz1yJ8; Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:10:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-83-236-59-70.dynamic.as20676.net [83.236.59.70]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QsWM84LwDz9s6R; Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:10:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2023 23:10:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> In-Reply-To: <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 612 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688073047-EB7FAC59-EDEA5420/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-06-18 19:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: Back from greener pastures, sorry for the delay. >> +@node GnuPG Pinentry >> +@chapter GnuPG Pinentry > > Pleased add an index entry for the subject of this chapter. In > general, it is a good idea to have an index entry for each > chapter/section/subsection naming is main subject. Problem here being that epa.texi has no concept index yet. Should I create one from the existing chapters/sections/subsections in a separate patch? And the next question is: Does this ("new documentation of existing features") qualify for Emacs 29? Thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 30 01:53:47 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2023 05:53:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qF74l-00073E-Au for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:53:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56068) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qF74i-00072v-1m for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:53:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qF74c-0002s9-N1; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:53:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1yfjubBqAZ0NKxjDXmYJ/KhW5YbpLTbMMhhw05uRhtA=; b=H2/3roCDGAkx A+QN86fApXQ+Dl98pNyC+QQbigCWsS4v0cR/x/ueLyr+yMeTJXfxq1CIZhG84oeuvA7jJRMNy4Uxa zeA6OUtW5GhvKrJz6QL0VXSYJo0tHpW/L7BlvUgk7o5WuejgH5UGgRM6rXFEkBa5/n+dfk1Bcz2Oy q0LKfXFV3f9otL03eqYoDa+kZWxtiA8qW3lqbuQGjGnr+wTPax99Bztlwi7PETgrCTH7XnlG6lgvC P11Qj8MafQCuylIfjirML71baipes5VlZ7AYINTkqGkuUaaHstg0lRrAw74Bq30U4eGT9MGE5A5Xj +blq7uj8QsZbJ8lSaBFiSw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qF74a-0001AV-2V; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 01:53:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 08:54:06 +0300 Message-Id: <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Thu, 29 Jun 2023 23:10:41 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2023 23:10:41 +0200 > From: Jens Schmidt > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2023-06-18 19:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Back from greener pastures, sorry for the delay. > > >> +@node GnuPG Pinentry > >> +@chapter GnuPG Pinentry > > > > Pleased add an index entry for the subject of this chapter. In > > general, it is a good idea to have an index entry for each > > chapter/section/subsection naming is main subject. > > Problem here being that epa.texi has no concept index yet. Should I > create one from the existing chapters/sections/subsections in a separate > patch? Yes, please. A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good manual, IMO. In fact, Concept Index should be the very first index in a manual; there are some good manuals which have only that and nothing else. > And the next question is: Does this ("new documentation of existing > features") qualify for Emacs 29? Documentation improvements and fixes are always okay on the release branch. (But please hurry, since I plan on releasing Emacs 29.1 soon, barring any grave bugs that will be uncovered.) Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 30 15:14:01 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2023 19:14:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFJZB-0006wo-2s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 15:14:01 -0400 Received: from mr4.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.164]:35716) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFJZ8-0006wO-J2 for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 15:13:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688152432; bh=UeoKCRMagP2akjfys23WxU4U+Guduhpkr3nQqrckJZs=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=h/2kjUrUBa5Nqim5LdleTAQAVpqzTeqr/fn8JWbvVtqIhruBd76ulDUNR7KpBuX9N +OhRaGu4eDbyPhEGsxMAQfNyqsDQrk7nM89vHGgOQWzM04W5G0ScIjhBvxJv/S/tw+ fnW6mzpO7cbQEV21p6UQ48QBHg6SGdREjU5nUrdg= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr4.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qt4jr12fcz1y1w; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 19:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-68-93.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.68.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qt4jh3SR3zKm4T; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 19:13:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:13:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 503 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688152427-CE7BC379-2B217BD8/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-06-30 07:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Yes, please. A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good manual, > IMO. In fact, Concept Index should be the very first index in a > manual; there are some good manuals which have only that and nothing > else. Another such possible systematic update I could do while touching things: Consistently title-casing node names and/or chapter/section titles. OK or not OK? I'm not sure about external references if case changes. Thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 30 15:32:46 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2023 19:32:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55809 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFJrK-0007OG-2A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 15:32:46 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:56348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFJrI-0007O4-7G for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 15:32:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688153558; bh=ljyAr/DyWm2Uh2rqGAsQt1id3BfzUAfIPwblAKWHkPA=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:From:To: References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=U2UNE6DnnMjNKr98yae5nzzjlxtRxCKTX9sA0vOk0NGJiEKjTVleNXTthEFTEnU3L nU3ytQfoicrbZ2BYSIixVhf9mSwbjkmINxHelPwPq6QGsqAl+M/S3qW7a1P0Gx4+oD Vigjld5fSylsQKZcy/iBDZ2qfR78L1rN2qenCgx8= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qt57V2Yytz210T; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 19:32:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-68-93.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.68.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qt57L51Ppz9ww5; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 19:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:32:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> In-Reply-To: <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 714 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688153554-A07E4D22-680AFADC/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-06-30 21:13, Jens Schmidt wrote: > On 2023-06-30  07:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Yes, please.  A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good manual, >> IMO.  In fact, Concept Index should be the very first index in a >> manual; there are some good manuals which have only that and nothing >> else. > > Another such possible systematic update I could do while touching > things: Consistently title-casing node names and/or chapter/section > titles.  OK or not OK?  I'm not sure about external references if case > changes. Just found this in the texinfo manual: * Case is significant in node names. Will keep the node names untouched, but title-case the hierarchy. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 30 16:54:31 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2023 20:54:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFL8Q-0001F0-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 16:54:31 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:38492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFL8O-0001En-H6 for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 16:54:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688158462; bh=ydA2EYlzx5sA3omk36Xxk1+qdODtG8EWc0X9ixpBXV0=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language: From:To:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=MLbdHo1THoZyYg5DcIObEmJCGdcAk4upp4tiQPjzwT/KpOk6JepOzJlCSaHx4RL8F ezCUSTB9840BPWJMzQEC+zICD4Vkz54bJxa1hLhDBho1OSYFsVK9BM4XCXOZk5afXn TKuLoEKiPPytgAzr3N6rumbP8cwG6MX7fhebufWo= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qt6xp3q2xz1yrS; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 20:54:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-68-93.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.68.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qt6xf5lwbz9vbk; Fri, 30 Jun 2023 20:54:11 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------jVXW7dSfpTU6lDYKCBtI4D3E" Message-ID: <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:54:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> In-Reply-To: X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 13235 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688158458-B17FEC59-6598301E/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------jVXW7dSfpTU6lDYKCBtI4D3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-06-30 07:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> Yes, please. A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good >>> manual, IMO. In fact, Concept Index should be the very first >>> index in a manual; there are some good manuals which have only >>> that and nothing else. Here you go: Concept index added, structure titles title-cased. Please check. 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d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3NdOUT/AtqXkTAAD5PUZmV8B7FPUWEEfLZWvks3A/t0=; b=fmdZFjMVT/iH uQ7qCbi586MFxuf4uv/tvXuXlVBlEjmVT6aEGFblOszxzbiswmATnQZlQQQ/O3GOSF5GvkwTao94c 6Dt82ieT4EpqlBThq/EwYjZuCz6Zy81Z5+6+CLjlmxs+2QW7p6eQdpIwLAbnJjuYxcnpof2ba5gJo tWQ9g8aOIU9DqvKOEXOF169DRnpStnEUQ8UzgAGdqK/tu7k8fpI3TG7N1S5fhwfy2krJq0g2pX02k vY3zXbFSk+zJAHe+PkxD0kTUEZ+9TvDSawI28DnPaAOks5ovAYsq1HuSQpaWVE2Xgt5gmJksaA1g9 B5KdVSLSF2mo3hXZJjPVPw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFTIE-0001oJ-Cw; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 01:37:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 08:37:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83fs68ry3d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:13:40 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:13:40 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > On 2023-06-30 07:54, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Yes, please. A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good manual, > > IMO. In fact, Concept Index should be the very first index in a > > manual; there are some good manuals which have only that and nothing > > else. > > Another such possible systematic update I could do while touching > things: Consistently title-casing node names and/or chapter/section > titles. OK or not OK? I'm not sure about external references if case > changes. Chapters and sections should be capitalized according to the rules of English. Node names I'd leave a lone: there's no capitalization convention about them. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 02:01:15 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 06:01:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56199 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFTfX-0007PF-6Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 02:01:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFTfV-0007Oy-1V for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 02:01:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFTfO-0001YC-NT; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 02:01:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=yBvgb/xPdAq30CdIYvKr5oPdSJNvckE72nBnYoTZwDk=; b=YG7/hxc65MET DnzYxdb5NMuX8GRawHnrrP5shB+a6Gic2STEXJj4BldjcDsDtF5h4V/5dURhqYUOcXQg0FztCs3X7 tgimG5gMkn3dJQ1rsy7YzqvDuSxv6nqNWJyhW4A6/ee4n4OCmTdHwMO8IgrzNylA83RG3QlcZ96r6 y2yhRyyMaxIkO4azqlUyY9z/4EXIJXuV07FTbBszByAlu2nFEzu2kCDtCk9R7hY/eK9DVHzIYNGLq RL7IvdVaZHq2WFqW8PKB/U/pIAAdTB8fvQO69DkgW2mwbwM4Y+L8vcyHTWVHpR8XUE7yKDqMbGDpZ RRvlZ/tRYUJYQK7Slz6xqA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFTfM-0006Cw-V3; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 02:01:06 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 09:01:36 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:54:11 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 22:54:11 +0200 > From: Jens Schmidt > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > > >>> Yes, please. A manual that lacks Concept Index is not a good > >>> manual, IMO. In fact, Concept Index should be the very first > >>> index in a manual; there are some good manuals which have only > >>> that and nothing else. > > Here you go: Concept index added, structure titles title-cased. Please > check. Thanks, see some comments below. > @node Top > -@top EasyPG Assistant user's manual > +@top EasyPG Assistant User's Manual > +@cindex easypg assistant > +@cindex easypg It is not useful to have several index entries starting with the same substring and pointing to the same place. For example, here, you only need "@cindex easypg assistant", the "@cindex easypg" one is redundant. > +@cindex overview > +@cindex feature overview > +@cindex features Likewise here. Moreover, these index entries are too general. Think about the case of someone doing "M-x info-apropos", in which case they get index entries from many different manuals. Thus @cindex easypg assistant features is more useful. > @node Quick start > -@chapter Quick start > +@chapter Quick Start > +@cindex quick start > +@cindex introduction Same here: "introduction to easypg assistant" is more useful. > @node Commands > @chapter Commands > +@cindex commands And here, and elsewhere in this manual. > @node Key management > -@section Key management > +@section Key Management > +@cindex key management > +@cindex key ring > + > +@cindex browse key ring The "@cindex key ring" is redundant, given the other two. > +@cindex browse private key ring > @noindent > To browse your private keyring, use @kbd{M-x epa-list-secret-keys}. Here, I'd use "@cindex private key ring", unless that rin is described in another section. > +@cindex insert key > @deffn Command epa-insert-keys keys "@cindex insert keys" is better. > +@cindex import key > @deffn Command epa-import-keys file Likewise here: "keys". > +@cindex delete key > @deffn Command epa-delete-keys allow-secret And here. > @node Cryptographic operations on files > -@section Cryptographic operations on files > +@section Cryptographic Operations on Files > +@cindex cryptographic operations on files > +@cindex file operations I'd change the last one to "@cindex file operations, cryptographic", to make it less general. > @node Mail-mode integration > -@section Mail-mode integration > +@section Mail-Mode Integration > +@cindex mail-mode integration > +@cindex sending signed mails > +@cindex sending encrypted mails I'd make one index entry from the last two: @cindex sending encrypted/signed mails > @node Querying a key server > -@section Querying a key server > +@section Querying a Key Server > +@cindex querying key server > +@cindex query key server > +@cindex key server I'd keep only the first index entry here, the other two are redundant. > @node GnuPG version compatibility > -@chapter GnuPG version compatibility > +@chapter GnuPG Version Compatibility > +@cindex gnupg version compatibility > +@cindex version compatibility > +@cindex compatibility Likewise here. You need to remember that typing "i compatibility" in the Info reader will find the "gnupg version compatibility" entry, because Info-index uses substring search in the indices. > @node Caching Passphrases > @chapter Caching Passphrases > +@cindex caching passphrases > +@cindex entering passphrases > +@cindex passphrase cache > +@cindex passphrases Here, I'd lose the "@cindex passphrase cache", as the other entries cover it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 07:14:05 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 11:14:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56776 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFYYH-0004Bk-08 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:14:05 -0400 Received: from mr5.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.165]:38492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFYYD-0004AA-5Q for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:14:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688210035; bh=tTnEilDPaEN8RBzXqWq2MUBfjjcmOtb24cXZl3tlCWI=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=BiZXWvRwsNeQjxqKeq1RqkbMHwtSGD1MA7JxfpxQzFtJEhjUZAkHoTAn2FyQr31ZW AoBJ26fpHGTZ9+ojYLZ5s3rQO+wTbR7ixZhw+I0q+gfQQbG28e/Op93YUpOtgeAAqo rhgdHW+gPAn8fjdxh4myKdY8xHh9Cx2BXcnAbW/4= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr5.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QtV1b25VTz1yK8; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 11:13:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-83-236-52-51.dynamic.as20676.net [83.236.52.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QtV1R6FX8zHnfq; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 11:13:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1fda457a-90ab-0bd1-9035-508953f4e4d5@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 13:13:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 580 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688210031-0BFFD0CB-75F3EB0B/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-01 08:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks, see some comments below. Thanks for your review. Comments and new patch to follow, only I have a more general question now: How would you prefer my follow-up changes? On top of the first patch (so you can more easily check where I followed your recommendations and where not) or should I rebase both commits from origin/emacs-29 into one patch? Another more general question: You have been asking for a hurry since you'd like to release Emacs 29.1. What would happen to patches coming after that release? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 07:56:51 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 11:56:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56862 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFZDf-0007wD-41 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:56:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42958) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFZDc-0007vz-08 for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:56:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFZDV-00084j-2x; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:56:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1nmRoTxCs6ADPyjAZlsLTYBkI60Yq+4LyS3jwg1FTM0=; b=bvurIRhkypxi UzSfG/aHQcTng/9iWDvWfmjuOQdxzZhpuClh+P7B3wh1fLIWpkKf40Eq95s3f39fq8PrbBh51Pp5d +ufu9hL/LOeUZ9smkdWCdlRoSKn+7OtqxjVhp1WJLY2xIRLV0KPvEhYycUW4eSQ60Og79wqEwQWwd DYBft4u4mwCrs/dkLjduyszaiKICEl4cHUymtolWAFSq1nSJpCya5TPBdCbAEL7R6EMhELwCBChlD EUMC5JicSp1ElYPjVQoHBSqA2dACyQFzuqbHpVUaXXBMi4tNi2RWDQSknLHa7LVNyqJQ7gZGrMr3v QkViVGldLpyc5WTqPoUx3A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFZDT-00078w-Fz; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 07:56:40 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:57:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1jzq1yh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <1fda457a-90ab-0bd1-9035-508953f4e4d5@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 13:13:44 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <1fda457a-90ab-0bd1-9035-508953f4e4d5@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 13:13:44 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > How would you prefer my follow-up changes? On top of the first patch > (so you can more easily check where I followed your recommendations and > where not) or should I rebase both commits from origin/emacs-29 into one > patch? No, on top of the current branch. > Another more general question: You have been asking for a hurry since > you'd like to release Emacs 29.1. What would happen to patches coming > after that release? They will go into Emacs 29.2. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 12:56:41 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 16:56:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFdto-0007ci-Qb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 12:56:41 -0400 Received: from mr6.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.166]:41304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFdtl-0007cM-EU for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 12:56:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688230591; bh=Td7z72WHkS7TX03bw+PT/v/NTV2cfD/tvo8+QMzB4m8=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language: To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=nxoOg71trNJaAo06irBMqaQam30w6dZ8ypQpnnxSy9K87GXoX1J8S4KdcjmWW5/vz gVm8+1RfB0h5w/Nn34w6/TE2N+0UnMCqp9qxRbLlkFvRHeulSstrCNRy644UXmA+51 53+rWw/l6Kd9nnFORvTRqB+KkR979s6MbUuslvDg= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr6.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qtdcv2ZpHz1yBZ; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 16:56:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-83-236-52-51.dynamic.as20676.net [83.236.52.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qtdcl5Sdzz9sRQ; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 16:56:20 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------eN2R9A16yamIm5N1IlupT6vI" Message-ID: <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:56:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 13358 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688230587-ADFF5C59-2D5A872C/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------eN2R9A16yamIm5N1IlupT6vI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-07-01 08:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks, see some comments below. Thanks for the review, next version attached. I did not follow all your recommendations, though, since ... > Likewise here. You need to remember that typing "i compatibility" > in the Info reader will find the "gnupg version compatibility" > entry, because Info-index uses substring search in the indices. ... I don't quite agree on that one: For example, I use completion on my index queries. And at least with my configuration ("-Q" is different here, agreed) I won't find "gnupg version compatibility" when I type "comp TAB" and if there would be only @chapter GnuPG Version Compatibility @cindex gnupg version compatibility Similar problems arise if anybody actually cares looking at the alphabetically ordered index, be it in an online reader or in print. (After all an index should be there for alphabetical lookup, shouldn't it?) Also here are some examples from the Elisp reference manual which I used as reference: @node Change Hooks @section Change Hooks @cindex change hooks @cindex hooks for text changes @node Checksum/Hash @section Checksum/Hash @cindex MD5 checksum @cindex SHA hash @cindex hash, cryptographic @cindex cryptographic hash Finally, even the Texinfo manual recommends (Index Entries(texinfo)): For example, one reader may think it obvious that the two-letter names for indices should be listed under "Indices, two-letter names", since "Indices" are the general concept. But another reader may remember the specific concept of two-letter names and search for the entry listed as "Two letter names for indices". A good index will have both entries and will help both readers. I changed some of the index entries accordingly ("A B" += "B, A"), removing the overly generic ones. BTW, above chapter also has a note on capitalization of index entries, so I went for "GnuPG" and "EasyPG" in the index entries instead of all lower-casing them. >> +@cindex insert key >> +@deffn Command epa-insert-keys keys> > "@cindex insert keys" is better. Agreed. However, I'm not quite sure for what reason you proposed that, so I changed, for example @cindex decrypt region to @cindex decrypt *a* region and not to @cindex decrypt regions Finally, I noticed that the index entries are not quite consistent w.r.t. tense: Some use present tense, some present continuous. 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--------------eN2R9A16yamIm5N1IlupT6vI-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 13:18:41 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 17:18:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58603 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFeF7-0008EA-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:18:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFeF2-0008Du-1h for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:18:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFeEv-00027b-Uq; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:18:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FNb/EudbMQHDIx+sbhptCHFA5hXQ2i6EOFKj5uNdtP8=; b=AdfAFRAvxvCz +vB/peh4VrKWQ1BB4ACUdG95ErQHRnkpoIREqO7nmAT3A/XVuyKE1NTXEaHbJL1ANFOgC+i8hiEOs 0Rlccx/apZkUqMQrr1SpwQkfKsVqww9WNQ+HE01HwtohvxPKc4q+bYA0k3xcQfHQZN91412B8zalM ic9e1/wB7pZtbhXefrp9U8UpF4nipl0v9IN1M9GbwHeSELIN9bcxvD2LJ5rjYQ4ML36DQlRfJaZci zTBIfc88I/xWgabK1h88j7VGdB5j8fKEmEEBfnzSEWQNE65hefHOgzvGUPDARe7OW9tf/sYoPrjKZ RD/asceOSfUYSlj/3fIW5w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFeEv-0002qA-4z; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:18:29 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 20:19:01 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:56:20 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:56:20 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > Thanks for the review, next version attached. Will review later. > > Likewise here. You need to remember that typing "i compatibility" > > in the Info reader will find the "gnupg version compatibility" > > entry, because Info-index uses substring search in the indices. > > ... I don't quite agree on that one: For example, I use completion on my > index queries. And at least with my configuration ("-Q" is different > here, agreed) I won't find "gnupg version compatibility" when I type > "comp TAB" and if there would be only > > @chapter GnuPG Version Compatibility > @cindex gnupg version compatibility Using completion is not the only way of using the index: one can simply type the word or phrase, and review all the hits, without hitting TAB. But yes, you need to consider completion as well, so when you remove redundant index entries, you should remove those that begin with words that are less likely to be used. And this actually raises the main issue with writing good index entries: you need to think about typical phrases that users will have in mind when looking for the subject at hand. E.g., is "gnupg version compatibility" something that users will want to find? Maybe changing it to "compatibility of gnupg versions" would be better? > Similar problems arise if anybody actually cares looking at the > alphabetically ordered index, be it in an online reader or in print. > (After all an index should be there for alphabetical lookup, shouldn't it?) Not in the on-line manual, no. Index entries in Info are intended to be used without going to the Index node at all. > Also here are some examples from the Elisp reference manual which I used > as reference: If you want to say that other manuals have index entries that can be improved, you are preaching to the choir. I improve existing index entries almost every time I make any change in the manuals. So don't be surprised that you see in the manuals examples of what I consider less-than-perfect indexing, and don't use that as justification to copy those imperfect indexing techniques. > Finally, even the Texinfo manual recommends (Index Entries(texinfo)): > > For example, one reader may think it obvious that the > two-letter names for indices should be listed under "Indices, > two-letter names", since "Indices" are the general concept. > But another reader may remember the specific concept of > two-letter names and search for the entry listed as "Two letter > names for indices". A good index will have both entries and > will help both readers. You indeed need to think about this, but I must say that their example about "two letter names" is very far-fetched. People who remember that much will likely remember the index name itself and look for "cp index" or somesuch. > BTW, above chapter also has a note on capitalization of index entries, > so I went for "GnuPG" and "EasyPG" in the index entries instead of all > lower-casing them. Please don't. Capitalized index entries sort in locale-dependent order, so the Index nodes look different depending on the locale where the manual was produced, and in some cases this could land the reader in a node other than the one you intended, if there are index entries for "Foo something" and "foo some other". > >> +@cindex insert key > >> +@deffn Command epa-insert-keys keys> > > "@cindex insert keys" is better. > > Agreed. However, I'm not quite sure for what reason you proposed that, The text and the name of the command use "keys", that's why. > so I changed, for example > > @cindex decrypt region > > to > > @cindex decrypt *a* region > > and not to > > @cindex decrypt regions I didn't comment on "decrypt region". As for adding the "a" part, I think it's a mistake: index entries don't need articles, and they get in the way of completion. > Finally, I noticed that the index entries are not quite consistent > w.r.t. tense: Some use present tense, some present continuous. I could > change that ... There are no rules here, only common sense and the projected use by the readers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 13:56:28 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 17:56:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFepf-0000w6-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:56:28 -0400 Received: from mr4.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.164]:53094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFepd-0000vq-3T for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 13:56:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688234179; bh=TavNaLUWvLTZkiQfIpk0+OLEBLCTxa3slXRJuq3Sw30=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=X/81jys2u23+tzKxGUZmcZE4eOb2SpKTkRtp7+se0gvZW9Zuequh+cg0i9UdJO4gv SmzMd99ioYubBiPvyFZ9mh5b4JjCYyLao+JiESbSH6I7eEKjElz5YeyfySJvmcTtZL mzY2iQpumq4pIf8PSTrWv3cfmbd5UK+S66YD5FaI= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr4.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qtfxv0Xnfz1xy7; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 17:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-83-236-52-51.dynamic.as20676.net [83.236.52.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qtfxl4RsNz9sJl; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 17:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:56:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 3516 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688234174-AF7F2C59-0DB0415F/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-01 19:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 18:56:20 +0200 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Jens Schmidt >> >> Thanks for the review, next version attached. > > Will review later. Sigh. Probably no need for it. You have some good points, and after reading them I understand that I need to go for a further round-trip. So you might want to wait for that and review the combined patches. >> ... I don't quite agree on that one: For example, I use completion >> on my index queries. And at least with my configuration ("-Q" is >> different here, agreed) I won't find "gnupg version compatibility" >> when I type "comp TAB" and if there would be only >> >> @chapter GnuPG Version Compatibility @cindex gnupg version >> compatibility > > Using completion is not the only way of using the index: one can > simply type the word or phrase, and review all the hits, without > hitting TAB. But yes, you need to consider completion as well, so > when you remove redundant index entries, you should remove those that > begin with words that are less likely to be used. > > And this actually raises the main issue with writing good index > entries: you need to think about typical phrases that users will have > in mind when looking for the subject at hand. E.g., is "gnupg > version compatibility" something that users will want to find? > Maybe changing it to "compatibility of gnupg versions" would be > better? I actually (almost) had this one: @cindex GnuPG version compatibility @cindex version compatibility with GnuPG @cindex compatibility with GnuPG so I hope we're closing in. Not sure though: Are these three entries "too redundant" in your opinion? And if so, why would that hurt? >> Similar problems arise if anybody actually cares looking at the >> alphabetically ordered index, be it in an online reader or in >> print. (After all an index should be there for alphabetical >> lookup, shouldn't it?) > > Not in the on-line manual, no. Index entries in Info are intended to > be used without going to the Index node at all. What about those who use pdf or even print this stuff? >> BTW, above chapter also has a note on capitalization of index >> entries, so I went for "GnuPG" and "EasyPG" in the index entries >> instead of all lower-casing them. > > Please don't. Capitalized index entries sort in locale-dependent > order, so the Index nodes look different depending on the locale > where the manual was produced, and in some cases this could land the > reader in a node other than the one you intended, if there are index > entries for "Foo something" and "foo some other". OK, will undo that. > As for adding the "a" part, I think it's a mistake: index entries > don't need articles, and they get in the way of completion. Will undo that as well. >> Finally, I noticed that the index entries are not quite consistent >> w.r.t. tense: Some use present tense, some present continuous. I >> could change that ... > > There are no rules here, only common sense and the projected use by > the readers. Does this "no rules" relate to only to my last statement or to index entries in general? Because in general you seem to have quite a bunch of rules, and well-founded ones, and if had known these before we could have saved a round-trip or two. But I don't even dare to propose changing the Texinfo manual ... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 14:49:04 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 18:49:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58697 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFfeZ-0002KL-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:49:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFfeX-0002Jr-AD for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:49:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFfeR-0004fh-8p; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:48:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7rmO0x3yin1WiXO4IPsx+qOlQNhE34i/A0F7ufp/6FQ=; b=ZeMjne4nO7v6 kYYlQYwsQrDDwlppg8DdkW1I1vVznpnMwzdd7OY618oXOEu3WXqIKTFNXHY4Svvtp7G9Rm9+fHITj 4nyBZ52TclW0f655Z5lUscvtBABR25+8TflmeQwudeVZZ+35Isvrt+HlLx7JOAVQwy27pK8K+/mo8 jRn9Qh/OntkSeK5ZqYNZAa7MPbxv8GfNT95dsRezf9hFjEiK5kLL4s7rqEtDKd7HuJVur7JSDicqw pSBl64T2rkZ/AHDcZVRJxVSd9OHi3hld4jSzYFFM7HMSPGxzEslpo1omh0+dSwn7zz7h6NTgznBP3 vGCvvhJqcMLWgIAN6Yl/rw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFfe9-0004iZ-Oa; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:48:55 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 21:49:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:56:08 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 19:56:08 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > @cindex GnuPG version compatibility > @cindex version compatibility with GnuPG > @cindex compatibility with GnuPG > > so I hope we're closing in. > > Not sure though: Are these three entries "too redundant" in your > opinion? And if so, why would that hurt? They are not redundant, since they all start differently. But I would suggest to consider the first one for removal. > >> Similar problems arise if anybody actually cares looking at the > >> alphabetically ordered index, be it in an online reader or in > >> print. (After all an index should be there for alphabetical > >> lookup, shouldn't it?) > > > > Not in the on-line manual, no. Index entries in Info are intended to > > be used without going to the Index node at all. > > What about those who use pdf or even print this stuff? The alphabetic order of the index in the printed versions exists to help finding the index entries. People still first think about what they want to find, and only then look it up. > >> Finally, I noticed that the index entries are not quite consistent > >> w.r.t. tense: Some use present tense, some present continuous. I > >> could change that ... > > > > There are no rules here, only common sense and the projected use by > > the readers. > > Does this "no rules" relate to only to my last statement or to index > entries in general? The former. > Because in general you seem to have quite a bunch of rules, and > well-founded ones, and if had known these before we could have saved > a round-trip or two. But I don't even dare to propose changing the > Texinfo manual ... The Texinfo manual doesn't need to be changed. It's a very good manual. As for "no rules", the most important rule for index entries is that they should fit what people have in mind when they look for the subject. All the rest are corollaries and gray hair gained by experience. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 01 16:20:33 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2023 20:20:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFh56-0004f4-HX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 16:20:33 -0400 Received: from mr6.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.166]:60992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFh53-0004ei-9r for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 16:20:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688242823; bh=Jsi6tzo6Qez0hLHRqjb0l4V+azkIllpJQonx8r/tXbM=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language: To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=N4NQ1VIVAexN1L8tQmPE6OkgjKaWHl4VE00Bhljor5h3uBEDrG5+4UjvnH3+CY9Ig hoVu7MDi2pAdYbdfBKPhjhkn6nky49CuG9v2G+NW3thckYQ31SRabYhZOwUtre1gUy AUQ8fQiBpxs2xmz2Tdbmd6pehyPzNZVk67ajqKBQ= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr6.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qtk87273vz1xqV; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 20:20:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-83-236-52-51.dynamic.as20676.net [83.236.52.51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qtk7z4G8pzKm4H; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 20:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------HY0AZiOvESFvRLynklqULEup" Message-ID: <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 22:20:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 8370 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688242818-D67CC379-E3F261E4/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------HY0AZiOvESFvRLynklqULEup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-07-01 20:49, Eli Zaretskii wrote: Attached a third patch - please review 2nd and 3rd combined against 1st. >> @cindex GnuPG version compatibility >> @cindex version compatibility with GnuPG >> @cindex compatibility with GnuPG > > They are not redundant, since they all start differently. But I would > suggest to consider the first one for removal. Why, then? I can imagine using that as index search, for example if I remember that the section is named like that. Plus it does not seem to break completion. > The Texinfo manual doesn't need to be changed. It's a very good > manual. [...] At least w.r.t. to capitalization you both seem to fundamentally disagree (quotes from "Index Entries(texinfo)"): [...] capitalizing only proper names and acronyms that always call for uppercase letters. This is the case convention we use in most GNU manuals' indices. 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Sat, 01 Jul 2023 22:15:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFmcs-0007Gw-ER; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 22:15:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=UGPWL6blgE8NUN43ZB39XcEswFt0YxN06RWFUBwPlj8=; b=VBc0EnHA0YYA z7QAWeLmpd9nTmwZHaUpjLzRlH3xhEx4ZBrMU1USCcUA9Qwq665GVCpMyKv9DQmTOMQgzJbaxMD0p eRxJN3Es1EJ6HsRmdMdvZz+X1HZA+FYSzv8gn9as82gg0lVSA3DehpADnD7D5eAnCOT7ce52nLMJG G47TKC+aYzv4D2vv/ZvomRlMXiAdhI6T2/1RdN5gzMuGbryp32k0YbR86JW+BQkdkE29uISBLshNQ VLKZVFS3b223bAwsyRVAgevuXS3UBKZMbkRoaorIuxLWk0ou0ueRKQpmh9xBeQ7XhFrNab5ybYQoA L0HT0lju8GYY4aKmb0zXKw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFmcr-0007F4-Vi; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 22:15:46 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#64154: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 22:15:45 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Problem here being that epa.texi has no concept index yet. Should I > create one from the existing chapters/sections/subsections in a separate > patch? It would be good to make a concept index, but please index all the concepts mentioned -- not just the ones that are names of secxtions. If you look at @cindex commands in the Emacs manual, which has a very thorough concept index, you'll see that there are @cindex commands for many concepts which do not appear in section titles. This is the way to do a complete job. Please do a complete job for EPA too! If you search for @cindex in the Emacs manual sources, you can see this quickly. Looking through 20% of the manual should be enough to give you the picture. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 00:58:50 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 04:58:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFpAg-0003t7-Df for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 00:58:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFpAe-0003st-DS for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 00:58:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFpAZ-0006gB-0g; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 00:58:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=yKOJ3gyiWUsSdWfLbJS9mO4weDZE4WJXVHgqjIX3WK8=; b=iPbZjlSBQtT5 LOVSZ2ol33zgcT6rTeKx1/GzeLXrMHitsbnqpugaXZKu27AKUGpZzYeXhYXLJegTv1yaOta+9Ie/K TQEYZHSTueOqtd3R8i/oLRmwmuNlyLmQasXYiry8bxxyviU7HLKF1K8r+X9HCDBcaPVoedX5Fh2Q6 PqIyPpxerKtlbD6p2tgGfcWzMVvxMRozLAwMQ84BQbxkRWQ4EHhzL68pVSobiCWiPLAZMlVFNu8Iv AQWcBmbicrPjPe005l2uPakXG3reedgLuZkN0KwF6gNGaidGNqJTkOubFBTooIpKf9259v0CsWeih 3n1VX3ZyUpvqHRTnUFSF6Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFpAX-0004cq-To; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 00:58:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:59:15 +0300 Message-Id: <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 1 Jul 2023 22:20:12 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 22:20:12 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > >> @cindex GnuPG version compatibility > >> @cindex version compatibility with GnuPG > >> @cindex compatibility with GnuPG > > > > They are not redundant, since they all start differently. But I would > > suggest to consider the first one for removal. > > Why, then? Because people are very unlikely to think about "GnuPG version compatibility". They are likely to think about "version compatibility" and perhaps just "compatibility". Just put yourself into the shoes of such a reader, and ask yourself what would you type at Info-index's prompt. > I can imagine using that as index search, for example if I remember > that the section is named like that. Plus it does not seem to break > completion. If you remember the name of the section, you can usually use 'g', since node names are usually very similar to section names. > > The Texinfo manual doesn't need to be changed. It's a very good > > manual. [...] > > At least w.r.t. to capitalization you both seem to fundamentally > disagree (quotes from "Index Entries(texinfo)"): > > [...] capitalizing only proper > names and acronyms that always call for uppercase letters. > This is the case convention we use in most GNU manuals' > indices. My personal rule is to use capital letters in index entries only when absolutely necessary. It is not necessary with "gpg" or "gnupg". The above citation says something similar. > Attached a third patch - please review 2nd and 3rd combined against 1st. Does it mean the patch you sent is just part of the changes? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 03:13:51 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 07:13:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFrHL-0007kQ-25 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 03:13:51 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:39966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFrHF-0007kA-Qo for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 03:13:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688282020; bh=NwPiz+D2taPMew3hn7Hveoxb/XzJl/rQPRhePDRrSCs=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:To:References:Content-Language: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=Idcop3kbPIr3+kxAbrpxqVrxCzWBab6gyBvzCNiyahvq80kXVyTTv+5Ev3QLAjAtq migdMfdtTK3hdnjoapOVL+7/jtIPPv0nI4gQs/ouqBSrvX7kXTLUXNv8N2tX4wzWIn IetPKpOThix+epUK5ShygpIYFJc8eI8/ynSnw8Gs= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qv0dw3Szbz24FC; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 07:13:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-170-181.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.170.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qv0dn1CRrzHpxZ; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 07:13:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 09:13:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 1857 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688282016-1AFFAD81-A7D8E048/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-02 06:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Because people are very unlikely to think about "GnuPG version > compatibility". They are likely to think about "version > compatibility" and perhaps just "compatibility". Just put yourself > into the shoes of such a reader, and ask yourself what would you > type at Info-index's prompt. But after all, I *am* such a reader. And I would type that, because "i" is my main entry point to Info manuals, not "g". My question here really is: Why would it be bad to have that additional index entry? It does not break completion, it is not overly generic, it is just ... there, ready for some less likely reader to search for it. (Spoiler: *That* one entry is still in, even in my latest patch. I understood your comment: >>> They are not redundant, since they all start differently. But I >>> would suggest to consider the first one for removal. to mean that removal is recommended but optional. Please let me know if you meant otherwise.) >> At least w.r.t. to capitalization you both seem to fundamentally >> disagree (quotes from "Index Entries(texinfo)"): >> >> [...] capitalizing only proper names and acronyms that always call >> for uppercase letters. This is the case convention we use in most >> GNU manuals' indices. > > My personal rule is to use capital letters in index entries only > when absolutely necessary. It is not necessary with "gpg" or > "gnupg". The above citation says something similar. I would have considered "EasyPG Assistant" a proper name and the "GNU" in "GNU Privacy Guard" an acronym, but anyway ... >> Attached a third patch - please review 2nd and 3rd combined against >> 1st. > > Does it mean the patch you sent is just part of the changes? Yes, it is. It undoes some of the changes of the previous patch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 03:35:09 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 07:35:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59139 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFrbx-0008Jj-4r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 03:35:09 -0400 Received: from mr5.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.165]:59800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFrbv-0008JH-2B for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 03:35:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688283301; bh=y82qb0ATnF636mH3N1OwA6JENoZXzDd2nnWW426Vaew=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=GJCYUT8WmTqr713i3th0Y1KlA6nA0DV6Q6dfRd/bPrnH1bqMEF/yGkb8ElgodJIvk njImAmcV0ANnTRdJBSa0l5zLKU7IpdUCMk14fUx/uw3f5bMJMA0eEyZQq4B3mI/uB1 ihOfrqjN06A7MRaVKtFtVR4Ks0rq4GMU9Mr8/dv4= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr5.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qv16X6yjzz26d9; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 07:35:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-170-181.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.170.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qv16L3GW2z9s3s; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 07:34:47 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 09:34:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: bug#64154: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: rms@gnu.org References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 666 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688283296-2B7FED22-54A29763/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-02 04:15, Richard Stallman wrote: >> Problem here being that epa.texi has no concept index yet. Should I >> create one from the existing chapters/sections/subsections in a separate >> patch? > > It would be good to make a concept index, but please index all the > concepts mentioned -- not just the ones that are names of secxtions. I was initially hoping for the better-than-nothing half of Dick's quote from the Texinfo manual: Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing. --Dick Brandon But Eli is already trying hard to direct me otherwise, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 04:18:24 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 08:18:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59164 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFsHo-0000yT-4D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 04:18:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFsHl-0000yH-RC for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 04:18:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFsHf-0000qx-R5; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 04:18:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=rZFlNE6J0u07mPkfdpVXSnYmil+2dml3qivdUejWY/Y=; b=KHOjfQwvs4ny IUXm+g3xO2aR8RnHnajeKP7IJUYIDuvVmOsqv74VbJQhUFNaocZaI/fFemMF8C2AG+lwABV69nTD7 qI3CyTmeFmnOHLEkLmeD4JEi4Y0Hxpt100aZJlLaEW0lf0YKVNAlNoQ/iaXfiQ7Ib8F+xLZFp5KZI Lq6kF4aueRSJ72w5cao3GQIQt+HPltKJWkuz+zcUHaEFlQtNmCa6FCQiSG/mKJ9aD1my5/HpCyf2P s2yFziiVB+1yo4JP/uZs/jeK405kKQ7DhhA9fnP6HkHfNyv5GLloRflvSqB8eOLOtvVcyB2dLziOo IZ6QM+JfxbILW7dcx4PAUQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFsHf-0005hY-BU; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 04:18:15 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 11:18:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sun, 2 Jul 2023 09:13:25 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 09:13:25 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > On 2023-07-02 06:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Because people are very unlikely to think about "GnuPG version > > compatibility". They are likely to think about "version > > compatibility" and perhaps just "compatibility". Just put yourself > > into the shoes of such a reader, and ask yourself what would you > > type at Info-index's prompt. > > But after all, I *am* such a reader. And I would type that, because "i" > is my main entry point to Info manuals, not "g". Then go for it! > My question here really is: Why would it be bad to have that additional > index entry? I said "I'd consider that for removal", that's all. If you considered it and decided to leave it, fine. It's a judgment call. > >> Attached a third patch - please review 2nd and 3rd combined against > >> 1st. > > > > Does it mean the patch you sent is just part of the changes? > > Yes, it is. It undoes some of the changes of the previous patch. Can you send a single patch with all the changes, please? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 07:54:36 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 11:54:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59440 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvf1-000123-W0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:54:36 -0400 Received: from mr4.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.164]:57654) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvez-00011k-2J for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:54:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688298866; bh=dJMj1IpwGRdKjRQw2/xKZcVT1zixjvtrbfQtSBwpwEs=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=WQCqR8dCbJ6aVm92nRPPvd6LwpinkZ7K2hqz1cpvtvJlsOGLGAD0D44BlzT4q795r 3hNCSAmBYWuymq222RvcDWixvx+v8L4/YZTLpVsSowO1QgUqTRdGkFs59WhfJvUts3 qq536JQizXyP4FFmH+YyrImTbwHNRbrcv0wrpsQk= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr4.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qv6st6mdXz1y9d; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:54:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-170-181.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.170.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qv6sl4Cqnz9sZm; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:54:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4c623320-b950-9514-3d18-b051d136262b@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:54:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 585 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688298862-6AFFBC59-5104A32F/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-02 10:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Can you send a single patch with all the changes, please? Ok, next general question, probably I have misunderstood your previous comment on that. git lingo is still somewhat new to me... Suppose I provide a patch P1 on emacs-29 and you review P1. How should I provide the changes CH resulting from that review? With a patch P2 like this (A): emacs-29 -> P1 -> P2 Or with a patch P1' merging P1 and P2 like this (B): emacs-29 -> P1' Or does it depend on the changes CH and you decide case-by-case (C)? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 07:55:27 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 11:55:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59448 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvfq-000142-L9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:55:27 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:50844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvfo-00013p-WE for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 07:55:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688298919; bh=DyVqksdDHYIBVX15ohzdWq4M5xygp5yYDYpvfBUvqf4=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language: To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=n28ww/K6Xk7C+S71EvBY83j1J5NkfKNeYHwoRxH7vcwZW2w3KzjoxY+THXczJ0jBR /t33cJUEY1DEnMOeVfdKylXMvUhw3OOxSzdyXC9vwwLhSzsHI/myuy07aY647HOqPw BgJx1HTE24iiX/bznTbGscfvfr8esffNJ0D0nPrI= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qv6tv2fcBz200w; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:55:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-170-181.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.170.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qv6tl656qzMmXC; Sun, 2 Jul 2023 11:55:08 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7oZ48zH63PUAHqImf3USrUIg" Message-ID: <753c9158-fc51-94af-031b-50003137625a@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:55:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 12775 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688298915-597FFEE7-CA390F8E/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7oZ48zH63PUAHqImf3USrUIg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-07-02 10:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Can you send a single patch with all the changes, please? Here you go. 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by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 12:15:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59467 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvzO-0001Ya-36 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:15:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvzL-0001YL-NY for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:15:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvzG-0007Yv-2I; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:15:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MzN4wS7AzR/rLEEpZBJ4eK6WLSSVE+hu0x4nHaOw4Y0=; b=HfiRpu8Lki/P 14TllkH+U3/FKMCZpA8lIqMzQeBTKyWUNfWSAHRzG9f8mon5eBfBsaFf1JhRaDXJhWDA4DfaApAYv XnGfsXen80X8oEw1Z7Kq6STmJtu02P1QYFEH8knJNnDmApA8pI1bdrzuMQBSrdKv6VoaOHQHvxlTK 7YdTTRMwiMCGOxiHptftyp06pHz52nyhg+A+7GyAeXLI2e5gmot8XRIRAXLTawJzZDNo8lyS+0yB7 atoJldzH8DeHgxtPxbkCz2BNhysLRe/S1BG4w9qIHPZ0KaOY2J+MasVXR4nWafa2noFt1c9uOVkS4 UdBMFkg8eTdsiXwj20wISQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFvzF-0006QY-6T; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:15:29 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 15:16:04 +0300 Message-Id: <83ilb2o6ez.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <4c623320-b950-9514-3d18-b051d136262b@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:54:16 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> <4c623320-b950-9514-3d18-b051d136262b@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:54:16 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > On 2023-07-02 10:18, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Can you send a single patch with all the changes, please? > > Ok, next general question, probably I have misunderstood your previous > comment on that. git lingo is still somewhat new to me... > > Suppose I provide a patch P1 on emacs-29 and you review P1. How should > I provide the changes CH resulting from that review? With a patch P2 > like this (A): > > emacs-29 -> P1 -> P2 > > Or with a patch P1' merging P1 and P2 like this (B): > > emacs-29 -> P1' > > Or does it depend on the changes CH and you decide case-by-case (C)? I usually prefer to see a single patch relative to the current Git, even in subsequent reviews. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 02 08:17:35 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2023 12:17:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFw1H-0001bd-II for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:17:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qFw1E-0001bP-Ts for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:17:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFw19-00085i-IH; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:17:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=PLEkH+MvLcBbQU+gHXmVKQBt+Q3w3s+JlMu9LYmhW8c=; b=FOPfOOvAV+Hq gDZHx5MwVhxNUliWMFbzkNQ9axt1RVP8hsJU9c9tORhXjW++vd9qQhQc+1Mxp7LVKsSYb810lNkF3 iaZ1EGDQGMmzkB1YQCfB1h6rImhK0hWAqc47CJzIiFIUqAPYpkcrpufpbyv/RcKpv7NvBzD4CZtOJ Csr0zhleFv5RwQuq4C90k5U65KCzP5P/nkyavfm9Qi/OR2vL/0jE8+EIzgRymKoMf6zkzdicZOmNN Ha8jRUeo4TqiO+7zPnoTKXV/z1i0MeFtCVIL7iVbaYfyIN9dnHropU60Ikj4MQw8f+j80TWdEhXEB MrlidBxzb0WGFeSkSMGjRw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFw18-0000Av-G8; Sun, 02 Jul 2023 08:17:27 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 15:18:01 +0300 Message-Id: <83h6qmo6bq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <753c9158-fc51-94af-031b-50003137625a@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:55:08 +0200) Subject: Re: 29.0.92; Provide additional details on GnuPG and EPA usage in epa.texi References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <90275992-b539-e611-d92b-9bfe57d9d58d@vodafonemail.de> <056aa3cb-51e6-dc01-a299-1200ba79e211@vodafonemail.de> <831qhtts01.fsf@gnu.org> <9e4c56f2-0124-fdf1-c719-ca6219c1ab28@vodafonemail.de> <3036a576-9260-8932-cb07-3941046f2dd8@vodafonemail.de> <83a5wgrwzj.fsf@gnu.org> <196f75be-0935-c481-8a9e-7157f3e650d0@vodafonemail.de> <83o7kvpn22.fsf@gnu.org> <7f41744d-bb32-1b0d-8fea-69f91b413b0c@vodafonemail.de> <83jzvjpivs.fsf@gnu.org> <5fd3e9fe-4676-99dd-0931-992f71be8728@vodafonemail.de> <83cz1aq57g.fsf@gnu.org> <77ffb12e-fca1-96bf-ce9f-4bd7d63f1763@vodafonemail.de> <83wmziohee.fsf@gnu.org> <753c9158-fc51-94af-031b-50003137625a@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 13:55:08 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > > Can you send a single patch with all the changes, please? > > Here you go. Thanks, this LGTM. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 08 16:31:37 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2023 20:31:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45252 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIEae-0004yD-R6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2023 16:31:37 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:48912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIEab-0004xv-Kx for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2023 16:31:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688848287; bh=qMaJrlKEZPD7lSJ6nxgFPx2DQh/jrg3uojnEhzdgPfI=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:From:Subject:To: References:Content-Language:In-Reply-To:From; b=F7OK8FTqgkNdLKjfUwrPltMDiohgDN/mEezG2UiLE2z0uYMHC9IglNBxJNimOxM8t fFEUln/d0pyeNQ9YF4B0itUHcAkJojsfHOKz/Lp+L/qpU7br+z9xPPI1sStf4hZlmo +pXZs5TdcJe8vvsDxd7AIM25Rm6R0gJatOHWdf5I= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Qz23g5Mhtz1ynK; Sat, 8 Jul 2023 20:31:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-208-125.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.208.125]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Qz23X0qw4zMmX9; Sat, 8 Jul 2023 20:31:17 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------y4cMYog3uSzwPugERYI6fGeG" Message-ID: <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 22:31:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 From: Jens Schmidt Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US In-Reply-To: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 22033 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688848283-B47F6A5E-5FA87A38/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------y4cMYog3uSzwPugERYI6fGeG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So after setting up the concept index, here comes what I originally intended to add to epa.texi. Plus my comments on you first review (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#8) where I have additional questions. Unless otherwise stated I followed your recommendations, however. On 2023-06-17 09:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> +You can use EasyPG Assistant without any Emacs or GnuPG configuration >> +whatsoever, for example to encrypt and decrypt files automatically >> +with symmetric encryption, @xref{Encrypting/decrypting gpg files}. > ^^^^^ > You want "see @ref" here, not @xref. The latter is only pertinent at > the beginning of a sentence, because it produces a capitalized "See". Understood. Actually, I copied the habit of the original authors there. I fixed my own inappropriate @xrefs plus theirs. >> +@xref{Key management} for a description of the format of that >> buffer. > ^ > Comma missing there. Some old version of Texinfo need it. I changed these as you have proposed. But TBH I find that comma rather disturbing. This might be a non-native speaker's view, but isn't then "See @ref{Key management} for a description ... easier to read *and* clearer in the texi file? Or, IOW, do we *have* to use @xref at the beginning of sentences because it has some other nice properties? Same question for @pxref? >> +You can streamline this recipient selection step by customizing >> +variables @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} and @code{epa-file-select-keys}, >> +see below. > > Instead of "see below", please add a cross-reference to the node where > these variables are documented. Actually, here "see below" refers to the same node. I use now "... described further below in this section" to clarify that. >> +As of June 2023, there are three active branches of GnuPG: 2.4, >> +2.2, and 1.4. All those branches should work flawlessly with Emacs >> with basic use-cases. They have, however, some incompatible >> characteristics, which might be visible when used from Emacs. > > Given the known issues with GnuPG 2.4.1, do we need to say something > about that here? Done that. Finally, I noticed that node "GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant Configuration(auth)" duplicates some of the information in section "Caching Passphrases(epa)", which means that these will be out of sync as soon as my changes have landed. 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h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FvsvWRaZC8WE35W5zZXxngxGDfx2KlNgorMWWwmmHcA=; b=lf7jluAOHfqH xIVo8KMTxpH3+mDlPbCzGNsf+brIad40nKoXW8VUzVQAftAngM27TmvC073Tv0CTyOIFRscKt0ICL Rol4qF7EM082YUB99nEdvEnaPEwY96K1aoc4q8pI0qJx+vidiRjLVHXiem1VjpALBp3j+gNvUTU7M ztgMiINWgEuPOY0woY302BwGglhtupM9PEYc68GEmCwZUz0Sp2mTRiYacifiDaFR0nrq+lJ9EGoou zZHogVDXxfS7M3FA3JE/hxcmczqxzhbAPifTVxwb9HZznen740YXWi3JmuPTd+b64UO/Mzc0pMwdg 01tZX0Qo43e1fLR8Qzh7ow==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIOmU-0005C0-Vb; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 03:24:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 10:24:37 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 8 Jul 2023 22:31:16 +0200) Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 22:31:16 +0200 > From: Jens Schmidt > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > > So after setting up the concept index, here comes what I originally > intended to add to epa.texi. Plus my comments on you first review > (https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#8) where I have > additional questions. Unless otherwise stated I followed your > recommendations, however. Thanks. > >> +@xref{Key management} for a description of the format of that > >> buffer. > > ^ > > Comma missing there. Some old version of Texinfo need it. > > I changed these as you have proposed. But TBH I find that comma rather > disturbing. This might be a non-native speaker's view, but isn't then > > "See @ref{Key management} for a description ... > > easier to read *and* clearer in the texi file? Or, IOW, do we *have* to > use @xref at the beginning of sentences because it has some other nice > properties? It doesn't matter whether you use @xref or @ref, they both should be followed by some punctuation, either a comma or a period, if we want to support those older versions of Texinfo which insisted on that. > Same question for @pxref? @pxref is different, in that it doesn't need such punctuation. Which is why it is pertinent only in some contexts. > >> +You can streamline this recipient selection step by customizing > >> +variables @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} and @code{epa-file-select-keys}, > >> +see below. > > > > Instead of "see below", please add a cross-reference to the node where > > these variables are documented. > > Actually, here "see below" refers to the same node. Then disregard my comment, I was under the impression that you refer to a different node. > +John Michael Ashley's GNU Privacy Handbook, available online as part > +of @uref{https://gnupg.org/documentation/guides.html, the GnuPG user > +guides}, provides an introduction to GnuPG use and configuration. In > +contrast to that, the GnuPG manual (@pxref{Top, , Top, gnupg, Using > +the GNU Privacy Guard}) is more of of a reference manual. ^^^^^ Redundant "of" there. > +When you save a buffer, say, to file @file{foo.gpg} for the first > +time, EasyPG Assistant presents you a list of keys in a buffer The reference to the file's name here is not necessary, and just makes the text harder to read. This simpler variant doesn't seem to lose any useful content: When you save a buffer to an encrypted file for the first time, EasyPG Assistant presents you a list of keys in a buffer ... > +reads, since the gpg-agent caches your passphrase for file reads at > +least for some time, but not for buffer saves. I think gpg-agent should be in @command (here and elsewhere), since it's a shell command name. Also, perhaps a cross-reference to the GPG documentation that describes gpg-agent would be appropriate here? > +@cindex public key encryption, passphrase entry for > +If you have created your own keypair@footnote{For encryption and > +decryption of files you do not intend to share, you do not have to use > +an email address as recipient during creation of the keypair. You can > +also use some free-form string that gives information on the use of > +the keypair, like @code{backup} or @code{account database}.}, you can > +select that as recipient, and EasyPG Assistant uses public key > +encryption for that file. ^^^^ Probably "will use" there is better? > +@cindex tempory files created by easypg assistant > +To encrypt and decrypt files as described above EasyPG Assistant under > +certain circumstances uses intermediate tempory files that contain the > +plain-text contents of the files it processes. EasyPG Assistant > +creates them below the directory returned by function > +@code{temporary-file-directory}. I think a cross-reference to the place in ELisp manual, where temporary-file-directory is described, will be useful here. > For frequently visited files, it might be a good idea to tell Emacs > -which encryption method should be used through @xref{File Variables, , > -, emacs, the Emacs Manual}. Use the @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} local > -variable for this. > +which encryption method should be used through file variables > +(@pxref{File Variables, , Local Variables in Files, emacs, The Emacs > +Editor}). Use the @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} local variable for this. > @vindex epa-file-encrypt-to This @vindex entry should be before the text describing the variable, not after it. > @@ -478,6 +532,11 @@ Encrypting/decrypting gpg files > @defvar epa-file-cache-passphrase-for-symmetric-encryption > If non-@code{nil}, cache passphrase for symmetric encryption. The > default value is @code{nil}. > + > +For security reasons, this option is turned off by default and not > +recommended to use. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Either "not recommended for use" or "not recommended to be used". > +@cindex loopback pinentry > +This so called loopback Pinentry has the added benefit that it works This introduces terminology, so it should use @dfn: This so-called @dfn{loopback Pinentry} has the added benefit ... > +also when you use Emacs remotely or from a text-only terminal. To > +enable it: > + > +@enumerate > +@item > +Ensure that option @code{allow-loopback-pinentry} is configured for > +gpg-agent, which should be the default. > + > +@item > +Customize variable @code{epg-pinentry-mode} to @code{loopback} in > +Emacs. > +@end enumerate Shouldn't the two variables mentioned here be indexed? If they are already indexed, but the index entries point to another place, having a cross-reference here to that place is TRT. > +@c In case somebody requests these: It is better to use @ignore...@end ignore instead of commenting out. > +@c Make pinentry-emacs the default Pinentry by means of your operating > +@c system. Install package pinentry.el from GNU ELPA and execute M-x > +@c pinentry-start to start the Emacs Pinentry service. *All* GnuPG "M-x command" should be in @kbd. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 09 06:19:03 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2023 10:19:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45872 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIRVP-0004s5-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 06:19:03 -0400 Received: from mr4.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.164]:41610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIRVN-0004rb-Ec for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 06:19:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688897935; bh=MUBrUrE9adD3IUlWBtUy93QDdoyztn7S6Myzht7zk9s=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:To:References:Content-Language: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=LAcbNXCnimEtmnFNuE4ZM6WQvyyZEkwILHupvLLBg3xs/trXyRODRG6DxPtiDiwna HbkHTYa6OXDDQ+DSpt3Miv2lbIKVg6uTUyK/F5IJIxZdn5ykjpbH9P9E5CeGKgNxY0 y97SbooRPZ9jgm31bBNZRSqBJ+qYFj7L3rYfMiUg= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr4.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QzNQR2lQcz1yBZ; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 10:18:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-126-63.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.126.63]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QzNQH403rzMmXG; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 10:18:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 12:18:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 2939 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688897930-4CFF9A5E-1C86C4AF/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 2023-07-09 09:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote: Thanks for your thorough review. Some follow-up comments and questions: > The reference to the file's name here is not necessary, and just makes > the text harder to read. This simpler variant doesn't seem to lose > any useful content: > > When you save a buffer to an encrypted file for the first time, > EasyPG Assistant presents you a list of keys in a buffer ... > >> +reads, since the gpg-agent caches your passphrase for file reads at >> +least for some time, but not for buffer saves. > > I think gpg-agent should be in @command (here and elsewhere), since > it's a shell command name. Yet another case where I tried to maintain consistency with the original manual: It uses gpg-agent rather consistently (without @command) where I probably would have used the proper name "GnuPG agent". In any case it means changing existing text, not simply adding new text ... >> For frequently visited files, it might be a good idea to tell Emacs >> -which encryption method should be used through @xref{File Variables, , >> -, emacs, the Emacs Manual}. Use the @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} local >> -variable for this. >> +which encryption method should be used through file variables >> +(@pxref{File Variables, , Local Variables in Files, emacs, The Emacs >> +Editor}). Use the @code{epa-file-encrypt-to} local variable for this. >> @vindex epa-file-encrypt-to > > This @vindex entry should be before the text describing the variable, > not after it. ... and same here. My real problem here is to fix minor issues present in the existing text and add my own changes in one commit, but you seem to be more relaxed here, so I will just do that. >> +also when you use Emacs remotely or from a text-only terminal. To >> +enable it: >> + >> +@enumerate >> +@item >> +Ensure that option @code{allow-loopback-pinentry} is configured for >> +gpg-agent, which should be the default. >> + >> +@item >> +Customize variable @code{epg-pinentry-mode} to @code{loopback} in >> +Emacs. >> +@end enumerate > > Shouldn't the two variables mentioned here be indexed? If they are > already indexed, but the index entries point to another place, having > a cross-reference here to that place is TRT. I thought that @vindex is somewhat reserved for Emacs variables that are defined with @defvar. So the variable index is more of an index for everything "variable-like"? >> +@c Make pinentry-emacs the default Pinentry by means of your operating >> +@c system. Install package pinentry.el from GNU ELPA and execute M-x >> +@c pinentry-start to start the Emacs Pinentry service. *All* GnuPG > > "M-x command" should be in @kbd. Even if the whole text is a comment or to be @ignored? In that case should I probably also use @command{pinentry-emacs}, @file{pinentry.el}, etc. in the quoted paragraph? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 09 07:26:48 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2023 11:26:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45897 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qISYx-0006o9-T7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:26:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qISYu-0006nu-Gm for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:26:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qISYo-000659-Oq; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:26:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=uQRRKP4GqNj4Zx4JfToycE5uWHMLCPOdV9lTNMETZAw=; b=fL4U81NYuzAE a25Lv0OIvAojWtXjQaESzAL4kAvo9iARuwXQrV5oetmir/DPkbHz6LvGTDeGHrFy/jXuJMLhmMqjs +Zz/o+tJqJUM+cIO/sOcr6PGCCdVAUTCB2jFLCAg3ALYuIBtymxd4uHRWI1MKC/3w/sWJ2drlwrjN zwkHBhQIFm3LnnZC9bLdt2j+xdJMZEdRh74ow1YinV+GtgEX5cDiecpWFKVRFqaSWxqIWvexqN/Xf XIjoAaZFNSXEdnLvJLffEaQ1rjAaHe9f/iYWic8Dj9sTlyGLv9TsixXuWmHBuj1Zg+qRooy8CAfeB V0ZuGiT7Z7wf1DHfkwle3w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qISYo-0005vR-5M; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:26:38 -0400 Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 14:26:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sun, 9 Jul 2023 12:18:39 +0200) Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 12:18:39 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > >> +reads, since the gpg-agent caches your passphrase for file reads at > >> +least for some time, but not for buffer saves. > > > > I think gpg-agent should be in @command (here and elsewhere), since > > it's a shell command name. > > Yet another case where I tried to maintain consistency with the original > manual: It uses gpg-agent rather consistently (without @command) where I > probably would have used the proper name "GnuPG agent". > > In any case it means changing existing text, not simply adding new text ... There's no need to fix everything (although you get bonus points for doing so), it is enough not to add such problems in new text. > I thought that @vindex is somewhat reserved for Emacs variables that are > defined with @defvar. So the variable index is more of an index for > everything "variable-like"? No, @vindex is for any variables. (@defvar produces an index entry automatically, so you don't have to add a @vindex.) > >> +@c Make pinentry-emacs the default Pinentry by means of your operating > >> +@c system. Install package pinentry.el from GNU ELPA and execute M-x > >> +@c pinentry-start to start the Emacs Pinentry service. *All* GnuPG > > > > "M-x command" should be in @kbd. > > Even if the whole text is a comment or to be @ignored? Well, if we want this text to be usable at some future point, yes. Otherwise, why keep it? And it isn't like making it right needs too much work, so I think it's worth our while. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 09 10:41:28 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2023 14:41:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIVbL-0001S4-Pf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 10:41:28 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:44898) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIVbG-0001Ro-A6 for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 10:41:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1688913676; bh=EyADlTDLojUoA/vV8EreyxS60TOFOMIoY6xJZzzltWA=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:From:Subject:To: References:Content-Language:In-Reply-To:From; b=U4K39RX6kVYYZu1P6Tu+7x2+FTFlsD+vVJVcMDRwcPyRSjYpkdnOLTQcZTq0uVzAG A2UkEvtldy4bUWBtLyqp22sUwST+rR7te4/tBD3mATrvZJKvaRbZHioIgQd0NsH5/k cYiSJCzxiba0MTIM3Asj2+bzsVhVPFGGWe1mQhWk= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4QzVF82vWXz1yk5; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:41:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-126-63.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.126.63]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QzVF05WQtzHnHf; Sun, 9 Jul 2023 14:41:05 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------L9n6cjOOEE2cdlf4jRB07sSq" Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 16:41:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 From: Jens Schmidt Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US In-Reply-To: <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 22278 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1688913672-4CFFE487-3953C471/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------L9n6cjOOEE2cdlf4jRB07sSq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-07-09 13:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > There's no need to fix everything (although you get bonus points for > doing so), it is enough not to add such problems in new text. Turned out that most references were mine, anyway, so little bonus. I changed them to "GnuPG Agent" where the "abstract agent" more likely is being referred to and to @command{gpg-agent} where the "concrete command" is meant. (The GnuPG manual is, um, extremely inconsistent in naming this thing, so nothing to be learnt from it.) Other than that I followed your proposals, new patch attached. There is this one open question regarding a completely different manual ("Emacs auth-source") from one of my previous mails, though: > Finally, I noticed that section "GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant > Configuration(auth)" duplicates some of the information in section > "Caching Passphrases(epa)", which means that these will be out of sync > as soon as my changes have landed. 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11 Jul 2023 11:02:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJB8Q-0001xw-LI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:02:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJB8N-0001xg-2K for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:02:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJB8B-0007Xj-MI; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:02:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GYQ0vjKWD9iZk54QyYuAUjZKqbhoDPnlpVpOJuwvaik=; b=VmQYpkRUdoOD d6GKbQiiTwC4vZFqHoisNWMCDtBMtzanWKzsfp1xEcxBkJOvKQoFI9Rfgna7aVd/skFJRwhdP1R+c vuFEzJU6sG4KI5kiaCYj2auwOVFPqJNFFuKq8HRP4D64tgYBWQ9aN7P9fyqB7oWzdJDs21afym9EW 4mqHmKsAk5j4UbIq/z9UjV/1PJA5P4g8Qo56aIwqR2kjQjXSdRiAEKaakTaRMwWO0AGMbXVlqn2GQ YQceOHDn4ctPV22+8wAoXGPMn6b4c+afSz0/JZhgc7LmFNipA5zKuc40QXoi1IktLbaT1gRKWqQPB PI+7rK0fgTKP15Rj/5fScQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJB86-000870-B6; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:02:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:02:14 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5w290eh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: (message from Jens Schmidt on Sun, 9 Jul 2023 16:41:05 +0200) Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 16:41:05 +0200 > From: Jens Schmidt > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > > There is this one open question regarding a completely different manual > ("Emacs auth-source") from one of my previous mails, though: > > > Finally, I noticed that section "GnuPG and EasyPG Assistant > > Configuration(auth)" duplicates some of the information in section > > "Caching Passphrases(epa)", which means that these will be out of sync > > as soon as my changes have landed. WDYT about that? Convert the other text to a simple cross-reference to the main manual, and add whatever info is missing from the main manual, if needed. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 11 16:25:30 2023 Received: (at 64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2023 20:25:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJJvN-0004h5-9E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 16:25:30 -0400 Received: from mr5.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.165]:57440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJJvI-0004gm-3c for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 16:25:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1689107118; bh=tXtOBd/u4WfN64l2g9tK79+C7GGbZ0YOtDPVM/G6dGY=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:To:References: Content-Language:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=DajtcncdZ74Y80j4CU8IG/XG/SFnxjkgixIwS7KV+bP4kF5oRIMzOJR+U7WTetgCh kENgXNEsDGF6Lxy4EEbc9AlJKLKT9p7FoAjdWDqQ5ve/dn5wpp+/VnJ0BTocXuSTOt q0vXhjBKcvWkZTVtXStDQnE9sGtZYPpeaomrRpzM= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr5.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R0snB1Vjjz1xxH; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 20:25:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-218-127.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.218.127]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4R0sn21tSGzHpxk; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 20:25:07 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------Yazvv4Vsoey0mZxJ4HH4y9aP" Message-ID: <58c080e6-066b-dbec-dc4f-15bf295e505a@vodafonemail.de> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:24:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5w290eh.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <83a5w290eh.fsf@gnu.org> X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 38491 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1689107113-1AFF93B9-D5C53315/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------Yazvv4Vsoey0mZxJ4HH4y9aP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2023-07-11 13:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Convert the other text to a simple cross-reference to the main manual, > and add whatever info is missing from the main manual, if needed. Here it is, for convenience together with both previous patches: 0001-Add-concept-index-title-case-structure-titles.patch Sent in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#71, LGTMed by you in #77. 0002-Add-basic-usage-information-and-fix-references.patch Sent in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#92 as a result of your previous review. 0003-Replace-duplicate-text-from-epa.texi-by-a-reference.patch Hope these are all OK to you. If so please commit and merge to emacs-29. I can close this bug, then. 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64154) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2023 07:52:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJr7v-00021f-J4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 03:52:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45856) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qJr7s-00021Q-JB for 64154@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 03:52:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJr7m-0002nz-On; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 03:52:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=wp5x9vkXuNMIgbgjZUF3iBSxyDUjvb9vwzQCB2Z1sJs=; b=FPIKFDhKjs0r v7s1JTl0cRtLYS+Wj323ctU6pXE8qKwviNqKcARmpk9XGa72lae1oFezWwB1ensD+3isfeYi4ZHSO HYevy3x3lis7Tkuth8A2X5hlebsMBFwkHIYGStye9zEK7ZChPOH0j8yaJRvGEiIPB97FPeH8SqICH paUdeJgIpMLc+RUceqHY6ZFNDw07LjUiwlCGjJquZeoT2N0Ag9qvhIJqpXwcgi4L0bPVRS3DOd/Ux lezv31kJXRZi+VMjZYCnVyzMi3gQhv3DWuoCaaQjgYZtdoGVOTHjr4crT5f/9qxR3dbP0QtViZOLi jWLQ0LNVM357PpAKaiFNRQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qJr7k-0006QH-HR; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 03:52:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 10:52:44 +0300 Message-Id: <838rbk5jub.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <58c080e6-066b-dbec-dc4f-15bf295e505a@vodafonemail.de> (message from Jens Schmidt on Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:24:58 +0200) Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5w290eh.fsf@gnu.org> <58c080e6-066b-dbec-dc4f-15bf295e505a@vodafonemail.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154 Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 22:24:58 +0200 > Cc: 64154@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jens Schmidt > > On 2023-07-11 13:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Convert the other text to a simple cross-reference to the main manual, > > and add whatever info is missing from the main manual, if needed. > > Here it is, for convenience together with both previous patches: > > 0001-Add-concept-index-title-case-structure-titles.patch > > Sent in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#71, LGTMed > by you in #77. > > 0002-Add-basic-usage-information-and-fix-references.patch > > Sent in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=64154#92 as a > result of your previous review. > > 0003-Replace-duplicate-text-from-epa.texi-by-a-reference.patch > > Hope these are all OK to you. If so please commit and merge to > emacs-29. I can close this bug, then. Thanks, installed on the emacs-29 branch. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 13 14:47:14 2023 Received: (at 64154-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2023 18:47:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qK1LN-0002xt-RB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:47:14 -0400 Received: from mr3.vodafonemail.de ([145.253.228.163]:47548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qK1LK-0002xV-Gb for 64154-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:47:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vodafonemail.de; s=vfde-mb-mr2-21dec; t=1689274025; bh=H4xRb6TLHHYHhygrJplYCn7zr57Jk4e2a1tUryUi2KM=; h=Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:Subject:Content-Language:To:References: From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:From; b=nLSORj3CDdJluhd5g6A6nmmJOsgYIR59MIUZEx30hXKKZNwWSrJ1USfkEx8HAODiV Qdy2s9YYIAb34mwZSzvRnWTqtvohz7KdFhA249BHagIiUxUOM18chSPcn+/x3syJ17 M2GPzWXyuptMum6XMXiPTpL46QetjXuna9B4Bv6M= Received: from smtp.vodafone.de (unknown [10.0.0.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mr3.vodafonemail.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R23Vw5hwSz1yxC; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 18:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.178.41] (port-92-194-136-20.dynamic.as20676.net [92.194.136.20]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.vodafone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4R23Vs2cBjzHnfp; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 18:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <0402625d-a3ff-b97a-9ccd-5c57193e792f@vodafonemail.de> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:46:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.12.0 Subject: Re: Some additions to the EasyPG Assistant's manual Content-Language: de-DE-frami, en-US To: Eli Zaretskii References: <83wn02r0s7.fsf@gnu.org> <26dac916-117c-d8a1-ad97-0e3e9313ff71@vodafonemail.de> <83a5w5bl8q.fsf@gnu.org> <99ae7aa0-fe0a-42a3-53e2-678507232e90@vodafonemail.de> <83sf9x9vgp.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5w290eh.fsf@gnu.org> <58c080e6-066b-dbec-dc4f-15bf295e505a@vodafonemail.de> <838rbk5jub.fsf@gnu.org> From: Jens Schmidt In-Reply-To: <838rbk5jub.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate: clean X-purgate-size: 122 X-purgate-ID: 155817::1689274024-D5FFC487-D456E00D/0/0 X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64154-done Cc: 64154-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) On 2023-07-13 09:52, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks, installed on the emacs-29 branch. Thanks, closing this bug. From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:16:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 11:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator