From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:55:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121760923728099 (code B ref -1); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:55:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 1 Aug 2008 16:47:17 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m71GlD6G028093 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:47:14 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxma-0002fj-8p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:12 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxmY-0002dM-7h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:11 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41252 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxmY-0002dD-3c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:10 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:56505) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxmX-0006lQ-Dy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0400 Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m71Gl3fl022348 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:47:03 -0500 Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7168Lhx008861 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:46:58 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11187148141217609134; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:45:34 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.73.168) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:45:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c8f3f6$06058ab0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acjz9gE+Gv4BB5maRY6k1i5BFQerAw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 emacs -Q M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be (as it is in Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a regression from Emacs 22.1. In GNU Emacs 22.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-03-26 on RELEASE Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Help Minor modes in effect: encoded-kbd-mode: t tooltip-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t utf-translate-cjk-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t view-mode: t From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: martin rudalics , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:30:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 641-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B641.121788501913516 (code B ref 641); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:30:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 641) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Aug 2008 21:23:39 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with SMTP id m74LNYVd013505 for <641@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:23:36 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Aug 2008 21:23:28 -0000 Received: from 62-47-46-155.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.46.155]) [62.47.46.155] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 04 Aug 2008 23:23:28 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/X4OdXb2/XgCReoi7IDJ0aHSqHVP0/pZvgTo3MIS a41cD3XY1S2jNj Message-ID: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:24:12 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 641@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.6 > emacs -Q > M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" > M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" > > The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be (as it is in > Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". > > This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a regression from Emacs > 22.1. See 2007-06-07 Jason Rumney * s/ms-w32.h: Don't define HAVE_TZNAME. * editfns.c (Fcurrent_time_zone): Remove hack for Japanese Windows. and the preceding discussion starting with http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-06/msg00334.html martin From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work,starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:15:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 641-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B641.121788765027222 (code B ref 641); Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:15:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 641) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Aug 2008 22:07:30 +0000 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (agminet01.oracle.com [141.146.126.228]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m74M7RSo027215 for <641@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:07:28 -0700 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m74M7KIC012572; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:07:20 -0500 Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m74DbC1C008086; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:07:15 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11227429051217887617; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:06:57 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:06:56 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'martin rudalics'" , <641@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:07:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> Thread-Index: Acj2e/dFTxFQCOxATZOqEPZWxO2SXgAAQFdw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > From: martin rudalics Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:24 PM > > emacs -Q > > M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" > > M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" > > > > The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be (as it is in > > Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". > > > > This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a regression from Emacs > > 22.1. > > See > 2007-06-07 Jason Rumney > * s/ms-w32.h: Don't define HAVE_TZNAME. > * editfns.c (Fcurrent_time_zone): Remove hack for > Japanese Windows. > > and the preceding discussion starting with > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-06/msg00334.html Sorry; I don't know what all of that means. It is obviously a bug, however, that %Z produces an empty time-zone string. I use it for a time stamp, for instance, with this form: (format-time-string "%a %b %e %T %Y (%Z)") After the change that introduced the bug, I get this: Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 () instead of this: Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 (Pacific Daylight Time) The doc string for `format-time-string' says that "%Z is the time zone name". My time zone name is "Pacific Daylight Time" (or something similar). It is certainly not "". From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work,starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: martin rudalics , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:35:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 641-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B641.121791764315314 (code B ref 641); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:35:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 641) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Aug 2008 06:27:23 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with SMTP id m756RJ2Z015246 for <641@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 23:27:21 -0700 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Aug 2008 06:27:12 -0000 Received: from 62-47-51-35.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.51.35]) [62.47.51.35] by mail.gmx.net (mp006) with SMTP; 05 Aug 2008 08:27:12 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1932J5Sn8l3GJ5rr/NXJfT0bKEBjOP258lsGb+QVH CeKzAZIMc/I1dp Message-ID: <4897F302.7000408@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:28:18 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 641@debbugs.gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.65 >> * s/ms-w32.h: Don't define HAVE_TZNAME. [...] > Sorry; I don't know what all of that means. Jason did undefine HAVE_TZNAME on Windows in order to fix a bug with `current-time-zone'. As a consequence, the following code in strftime.c #if HAVE_TZNAME /* The tzset() call might have changed the value. */ if (!(zone && *zone) && tp->tm_isdst >= 0) zone = tzname[tp->tm_isdst]; #endif if (! zone) zone = ""; will produce an empty zone string on Windows. I suppose we need different strategies for handling `current-time-zone' and `format-time-string' on Windows. martin From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:40:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12179613219408 (code B ref -1); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:40:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Aug 2008 18:35:21 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m75IZBlS008939 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:35:13 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQRNF-0006eA-Iw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:35:09 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQRNC-0006dy-GZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:35:08 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53657 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQRNC-0006dv-Ap for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:35:06 -0400 Received: from mtaout4.012.net.il ([84.95.2.10]:55841) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQRNB-0005xp-LK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:35:06 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.7.152]) by i_mtaout4.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K5500L034Y1E980@i_mtaout4.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:34:49 +0300 (IDT) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:34:35 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 15:07:28 -0700 > Cc: > > > From: martin rudalics Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:24 PM > > > emacs -Q > > > M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" > > > M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" > > > > > > The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be (as it is in > > > Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". > > > > > > This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a regression from Emacs > > > 22.1. > > > > See > > 2007-06-07 Jason Rumney > > * s/ms-w32.h: Don't define HAVE_TZNAME. > > * editfns.c (Fcurrent_time_zone): Remove hack for > > Japanese Windows. > > > > and the preceding discussion starting with > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-06/msg00334.html > > Sorry; I don't know what all of that means. What it means is that we did this on purpose, and therefore the fact you get an empty string for %Z is not a bug. > It is obviously a bug, however, that %Z produces an empty time-zone string. I > use it for a time stamp, for instance, with this form: > (format-time-string "%a %b %e %T %Y (%Z)") > > After the change that introduced the bug, I get this: > > Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 () > > instead of this: > > Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 (Pacific Daylight Time) "Pacific Daylight Time" is not a Posix- or RFC-822 compliant timezone specification. It comes from the MS-Windows version of `tzname', which produces RFC-compliant TZ strings only for a very small subset of timezone specifications, and even that only after you call `tzset' from within an application. So we disabled the use of `tzname' on Windows to avoid producing non-compliant timezone strings, which could break others, e.g. if used in an email message header. Posix specifies that if `tzname' is not available, %Z should produce an empty string. This means that an empty string is a valid result of format-time-string for %Z, and if you use %Z in your Lisp code, you should make allowances for the case of an empty string, no matter on which platform. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 00:05:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121798053914519 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 00:05:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 5 Aug 2008 23:55:39 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m75NtZdR014513 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:55:36 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQWNK-0002Qy-HK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:55:34 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQWNJ-0002Qb-RE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:55:34 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43819 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQWNJ-0002QQ-G9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:55:33 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:22644) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQWNE-0008Pn-2Q; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:55:28 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m75NtG11022293; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:55:16 -0600 Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m75KT0r3028914; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:55:14 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11255745391217980472; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:54:32 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:54:32 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:54:32 -0700 Message-ID: <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj3KiFVg8TfjNZgRweKkB3twmWPeAAKBhNA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > > > From: martin rudalics Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:24 PM > > > > emacs -Q > > > > M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" > > > > M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" > > > > > > > > The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be > > > > (as it is in > > > > Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". > > > > > > > > This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a > > > > regression from Emacs 22.1. > > > > > > See > > > 2007-06-07 Jason Rumney > > > * s/ms-w32.h: Don't define HAVE_TZNAME. > > > * editfns.c (Fcurrent_time_zone): Remove hack for > > > Japanese Windows. > > > > > > and the preceding discussion starting with > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-06/msg00334.html > > > > Sorry; I don't know what all of that means. > > What it means is that we did this on purpose, and therefore the fact > you get an empty string for %Z is not a bug. OK, call it an incompatible change, if you prefer. You intentionally broke existing code and reduced the utility of the function and the fidelity of its doc string and Elisp doc. Count me as one user who disagrees with the change, whether bug or by design. Not only does it break my existing code, but I don't see any way now to get a timezone name (on Windows) even by changing the code. Can you tell me how to do that? If so, please document it. > > It is obviously a bug, however, that %Z produces an empty > > time-zone string. I use it for a time stamp, for instance, > > with this form: > > (format-time-string "%a %b %e %T %Y (%Z)") > > > > After the change that introduced the bug, I get this: > > Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 () > > instead of this: > > Mon Aug 4 15:01:16 2008 (Pacific Daylight Time) > > "Pacific Daylight Time" is not a Posix- or RFC-822 compliant timezone > specification. So? What requires `format-time-string' to use only Posix- or RFC-822 specs? * The doc string says nothing about Posix or RFC-822. The Elisp manual is just as silent about this. * The function previously DTRT for %Z, at least on Windows. * The doc string still refers to %Z as producing the timezone name, and "" is surely not a timezone name (for humans, even if it is for Posix). I'd call that, in itself, a bug - at the very least, a doc bug. Or did you also intentionally make the doc speak against the behavior? * The Elisp manual says that %Z produces "the time zone abbreviation (e.g., `EST')", which is different from what the doc string says ("name" vs "abbreviation"), and which is apparently also wrong. In Emacs 22, I get "Pacific Daylight Time", not "PDT" (on Windows). * %Z producing "" is less useful (not useful at all, in my eyes) for most purposes, even if it is a Posix- or RFC-822 compliant timezone spec. > It comes from the MS-Windows version of `tzname', > which produces RFC-compliant TZ strings only for a very small subset > of timezone specifications, and even that only after you call `tzset' > from within an application. So we disabled the use of `tzname' on > Windows to avoid producing non-compliant timezone strings, which could > break others, e.g. if used in an email message header. > > Posix specifies that if `tzname' is not available, %Z should produce > an empty string. This means that an empty string is a valid result of > format-time-string for %Z, and if you use %Z in your Lisp code, you > should make allowances for the case of an empty string, no matter on > which platform. The doc string does not mention this. And it does not refer the reader to the Posix spec (which would be only slightly more help than saying nothing). AFAICT, the functionality and usefulness has been reduced. At least on Windows, IIUC, one can no longer use %Z - you just get "", which is useless. This is strictly a loss, whatever plusses elsewhere might be seen to compensate it. If you absolutely need a Posix-compliant spec for some use (e.g. mail), why don't you add a new one - %P, for instance, instead of changing the meaning and behavior of the existing %Z and thus introducing incompatibility? We didn't change the Emacs regexp syntax when we introduced Posix regexp support - we added separate Posix functions (that's TRT). IIUC, you offer Windows users no way to get a timezone name now. You certainly don't offer the *same* way to do that, so even if there is a way (is there?), it means needing different code for different Emacs versions. Are you really convinced this is TRT? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121799302511796 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:30:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 03:23:45 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m763NeLS011790 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:23:41 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQZci-0004VP-3C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:23:40 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQZch-0004Tq-6u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:23:39 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43820 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQZch-0004Tf-2y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:23:39 -0400 Received: from mtaout6.012.net.il ([84.95.2.16]:52126) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQZcg-0007mn-DW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:23:38 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.7.152]) by i-mtaout6.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K5500766TDCSPH0@i-mtaout6.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:22:25 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:22:10 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:54:32 -0700 > > You intentionally broke existing code Code that didn't expect "" from %Z was already broken. > and reduced the utility of the function Please complain to Microsoft: if they modify `tzname' to be compliant, the previous code can be reinstated. > Not only does it break my existing code, but I don't see any way now to get a > timezone name (on Windows) even by changing the code. Can you tell me how to do > that? I'd use %z. > > "Pacific Daylight Time" is not a Posix- or RFC-822 compliant timezone > > specification. > > So? What requires `format-time-string' to use only Posix- or RFC-822 specs? I explained that in my message. > AFAICT, the functionality and usefulness has been reduced. I understood your opinion the first time, no need to repeat it over and over again. > If you absolutely need a Posix-compliant spec for some use (e.g. mail), why > don't you add a new one - %P %Z is already a Posix format. > Are you really convinced this is TRT? Yes. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:50:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121800127621111 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:50:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 05:41:16 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m765fBaR021105 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:41:13 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQbln-0005YM-9u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:41:11 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQblm-0005X1-Ay for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:41:10 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44718 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQbll-0005Wn-JS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:41:09 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:49099) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQble-0007Yj-FQ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:41:02 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m765eso5015155; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:40:54 -0500 Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m75JAnGQ011571; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:40:54 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11260383391218001246; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:40:46 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:40:46 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:40:46 -0700 Message-ID: <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj3dAtsThBM0bFnSSauJpN5RLQpkQACQwlg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > Code that didn't expect "" from %Z was already broken. Oh really? Did the doc say that the timezone name could be empty? Did it say that it would _always_ be empty on Windows? No, I don't think so - and it still does not say that. There is nothing that would lead one to believe that the timezone name could be empty. And certainly nothing that would lead one to believe that it will _always_ be empty (on Windows). The result was always the same previously, and it always agreed with the doc string and the manual. Why then should user code not expect such a result? It worked, and it reflected the doc. It did what it said. Nothing broken about that. Now, however, the result has changed. That's breaking things. No amount of insulting word play about pre-broken code can change that. It is only this design change that breaks things. > > and reduced the utility of the function > > Please complain to Microsoft: if they modify `tzname' to be compliant, > the previous code can be reinstated. Don't blame Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't produce Gnu Emacs. Nothing in the doc string or manual description of `format-time-string' says that it follows Microsoft's `tzname'. Nor should it. And nothing in the doc string or manual description says that it must be Posix compliant either - even now. This is not `format-Posix-time-string'. Again, think about how Posix compliance was added for regexps - we didn't just willy nilly redesign `re-search-forward' to suddenly be Posix compliant, claiming that any existing code expecting the previous behavior was always "broken" anyway because it didn't expect the Posix behavior. No, we added a new function, `posix-search-forward'. And that's TRT. Please don't blame an unfortunate _design_ change on nasty old Microsoft or on any other implementation detail. The previous implementation did not have this problem. If the previous implementation had the different problem of not offering Posix compliance, then add that feature, but don't take away other functionality in order to add it. This change cannot be just a reflection of an implementation difficulty (e.g. bad Microsoft implementation of `tzname'), because you said that it was an intentional design change. You can't have it both ways. > > Not only does it break my existing code, but I don't see > > any way now to get a timezone name (on Windows) even by changing > > the code. Can you tell me how to do that? > > I'd use %z. What about timezone _name_ do you not understand? The doc says that %Z produces a timezone name. %z does not do that, ever. And %Z no longer does that either. Contrary to the doc, there is now no way to get a timezone name on Windows. And there used to be - that's a regression. The function used to do what its doc said and still says, but it no longer does what it says (on Windows, at least). That's a regression. > > > "Pacific Daylight Time" is not a Posix- or RFC-822 > > > compliant timezone specification. > > > > So? What requires `format-time-string' to use only Posix- or RFC-822 specs? > > I explained that in my message. You most certainly did not. What _requires_ the result to be _only_ Posix or RFC-822 compliant? This is an Emacs function. It can return anything GNU wants it to return. It can be made to return Posix _and_ non-Posix. You've given no reason why the result _must always_ be Posix compliant, and why the best we can ever do is return "" for the timezone name on Windows. We know we can do better, because we have always done better before. It wasn't bad old Microsoft that changed things here, returning "" instead of "Pacific Daylight Time"; it was good old GNU. Why can't there be two format keys, say (1) %Z for what it's always been and (2) some new key for Posix-compliant timezone names (including the empty "name" "")? Why not add functionality instead of subtracting it? > > If you absolutely need a Posix-compliant spec for some use > > (e.g. mail), why don't you add a new one - %P > > %Z is already a Posix format. * You said that what it produced was _not_ Posix format previously - hence the "needed" change. * In any case, the doc string and manual don't say anything about %Z being Posix compliant. Even now. You've pointed to absolutely nothing that forces a change in behavior (i.e. in meaning) for %Z here. You've given no reason for not introducing a different format key for Posix, instead of hijacking `format-time-string's %Z to give it a new meaning and put it in line with Posix's %Z. Be reasonable. There are two bad things happening here: 1. %Z has changed, so code that needs to work with multiple Emacs versions now has to have multiple implementations. IOW, you've broken backward compatibility. 2. Even if a user decides to recode to adapt to the changed meaning of %Z, there is no solution. There is now _no_ way to get a (non-empty) timezone name (on Windows). I don't care so much about #1, though I think it is unwise to make such a change instead of adding a new format key for the new behavior. But sometimes backward incompatibility is justified. If it's important to you that %Z be changed to be Posix compliant (e.g. because "%Z" is also used by Posix), fine. Then please add a new key that does what %Z used to do (non-compliant timezone string). That works too, even if it requires code to jump through some version hoops (minor ugliness). One way or the other, please provide _both_ if you want to add Posix compliance - give us some way to get a timezone name on Windows. IOW, it is #2 that is a real problem - you have added functionality, but you have also taken away functionality unnecessarily. Please reconsider. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121804886132658 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:00:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 18:54:21 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76IsHV6032652 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:54:18 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQo9I-0001kT-VD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:54:17 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQo9G-0001gF-Ue for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:54:16 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33527 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQo9G-0001g0-PF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:54:14 -0400 Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]:60211) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQo9G-0006lg-5p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:54:14 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.7.152]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K570003Q0ID9Y10@i-mtaout7.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:54:14 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:53:58 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:40:46 -0700 > > Now, however, the result has changed. That's breaking things. No amount of > insulting word play about pre-broken code can change that. It is only this > design change that breaks things. Drew, please cool down. I'm trying to stay technical and explain the reasons for this change, but your tone makes it harder and harder for me to stay technical. If I somehow infuriated you, I apologize; this wasn't the intent. > > > and reduced the utility of the function > > > > Please complain to Microsoft: if they modify `tzname' to be compliant, > > the previous code can be reinstated. > > Don't blame Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't produce Gnu Emacs. Nothing in the doc > string or manual description of `format-time-string' says that it follows > Microsoft's `tzname'. Nor should it. > > And nothing in the doc string or manual description says that it must be Posix > compliant either - even now. This is not `format-Posix-time-string'. I support changing the doc string, so let's leave the documentation alone. Let's deal with what the code does. Let me explain again the issue and add some details. If that still doesn't convince you, we will have to agree to disagree. `format-time-string' is a Lisp interface to the Posix function `strftime' from the standard C library. As such, it needs to produce, under the %Z format specifier, a time-zone name whose form is expected by programs that accept time-zone names. It cannot produce just any string, because that would not be expected by the receiving programs, such as MUAs. I'm sure you agree that if `tzname' on Windows (or on any other platform, for that matter) produced the words of "Yankee Doodle", you would not be arguing that we should use the result of calling such a buggy `tzname'. That might be an intentionally extreme example, but I hope you agree than in general, not every possible string is acceptable as a valid time-zone name. Now, valid time-zone names are strings of the form xST[-]NxDT or similar (they can also be more complicated to describe the day of the year when the switch from standard to daylight-saving time happens). This is what the programs that use these names expect. Such programs may try parsing time-zone names, e.g., to deduce the time offset or whether daylight-saving time is in effect. Strings we find in the Windows version of `tzname' do not follow the above form: they are just text describing the time zone, they include blanks, and they are localized (so instead of, e.g., "Jerusalem Standard Time" you may well see something in Hebrew). I submit that emitting such time-zone names instead of standard compliant form is a bad idea. It is IMO better to not emit the name at all than emit the Windows names. Fortunately, the Posix standard of `strftime' explicitly says that %Z could produce an empty string, so programs that expect what %Z produces should also expect to see an empty string. So we decided to use this fire escape because behaving as if `tzname' was not available on Windows is better than inducing potential breakage on recipients of such non-standard time-zone names. (If Windows time-zone names were always in US English, we could perhaps repair this by translating them to the equivalent RFC-822 compliant identifiers. But because they can also be localized, this job is much harder, unless someone comes up with an exhaustive list of all the possible spellings of each and every one of Windows time-zone names.) > This change cannot be just a reflection of an implementation difficulty (e.g. > bad Microsoft implementation of `tzname'), because you said that it was an > intentional design change. It wasn't a design change. It was a change in the implementation that eliminated use of broken functionality of the C library. The design remains the same: `format-time-string' is the Emacs equivalent of `strftime'. > > > So? What requires `format-time-string' to use only Posix- or RFC-822 specs? > > > > I explained that in my message. > > You most certainly did not. What _requires_ the result to be _only_ Posix or > RFC-822 compliant? The fact that we expect these strings to be consumed by other programs, not just by humans. I hope these explanations help. If not, sorry: that's the best I can do. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121805236318244 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:00:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 19:52:43 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76Jqc2N018238 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:52:39 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQp3m-0004qZ-7u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:52:38 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQp3j-0004p9-J9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:52:37 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41193 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQp3j-0004p1-8A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:52:35 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:29107) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQp3b-0007hZ-Fq; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:52:29 -0400 Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m76Jq4nj016134; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:52:04 -0600 Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m76FO603006140; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:52:03 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt358.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11278758851218052086; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:48:06 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:48:06 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:48:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00ff01c8f7fd$5d92d6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj39fnLR1UZz1fyQ2GIVQrz07cb0gAAMxNg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > > And nothing in the doc string or manual description says > > that it must be Posix compliant either - even now. This is not > > `format-Posix-time-string'. > > I support changing the doc string, so let's leave the documentation > alone. Let's deal with what the code does. Yes, of course - however this is resolved, the doc and the product it documents should agree. > `format-time-string' is a Lisp interface to the Posix function > `strftime' from the standard C library. That's what I question. Where does it say that that is the mission of `format-time-string'? This is a new interpretation, AFAICT. Where does it say that `format-time-string' must be implemented only as a transparent front end to `strftime'? If you _assume_ that `format-time-string' must produce Posix-compliant output, then obviously any output that is non-compliant is inappropriate. I question that assumption. I see nothing in the previous (or current) doc stating that that is the function's mandate. > As such, it needs to produce, > under the %Z format specifier, a time-zone name whose form is expected > by programs that accept time-zone names. It cannot produce just any > string, because that would not be expected by the receiving programs, > such as MUAs. Only if you assume what you are trying to prove. I don't see any evidence that `format-time-string' has that restricted meaning. > I'm sure you agree that if `tzname' on Windows (or on any other > platform, for that matter) produced the words of "Yankee Doodle", you > would not be arguing that we should use the result of calling such a > buggy `tzname'. That might be an intentionally extreme example, but I > hope you agree than in general, not every possible string is > acceptable as a valid time-zone name. I don't know what "valid" timezone name means, outside of a particular scheme such as Posix that defines "valid". Outside of that, anything that makes sense to some people as a timezone name is fair game for a function that formats time strings. But not, of course, for a function that purports to format Posix-compliant timezone strings. That is the crux of the matter. "Pacific Daylight Time" might not be a valid Posix name, but it is certainly meaningful as a timezone name for many, if not most, users. "Yankee Doodle" will get much less user mileage. ;-) The question is whether strings produced by `format-time-string' are _useful_, not whether they are always Posix-compliant. There is only a proper subset of `format-time-string' use that calls for Posix compliance. > Now, valid time-zone names are strings of the form xST[-]NxDT or > similar (they can also be more complicated to describe the day of the > year when the switch from standard to daylight-saving time happens). > This is what the programs that use these names expect. Such programs > may try parsing time-zone names, e.g., to deduce the time offset or > whether daylight-saving time is in effect. No argument, for a function whose job is to produce Posix-compliant names. Call it `format-Posix-time-string'. That's not `format-time-string' (hasn't been, until the new behavior/interpretation). > Strings we find in the Windows version of `tzname' do not follow the > above form: they are just text describing the time zone, they include > blanks, and they are localized (so instead of, e.g., "Jerusalem > Standard Time" you may well see something in Hebrew). That's no doubt useful for at least some users. I'd guess that any timezone names produced by Windows are probably useful to some users. "Pacific Daylight Time" has a lot going for it, Monsieur Posix notwithstanding. > I submit that emitting such time-zone names instead of > standard compliant form is a bad idea. It's a bad idea for `format-Posix-time-string'. It's a good idea for `format-time-string'. Quite useful. > It is IMO better to not emit the name at all than emit the > Windows names. Only for `format-Posix-time-string'. It is far better to have a function (e.g. `format-time-string') that outputs "Pacific Daylight Time' than one that can only output "" for San Francisco's time zone. This should be obvious. > Fortunately, the Posix standard of `strftime' > explicitly says that %Z could produce an empty string, so programs > that expect what %Z produces should also expect to see an empty > string. So we decided to use this fire escape because behaving as if > `tzname' was not available on Windows is better than inducing > potential breakage on recipients of such non-standard time-zone names. > > (If Windows time-zone names were always in US English, we could > perhaps repair this by translating them to the equivalent RFC-822 > compliant identifiers. But because they can also be localized, this > job is much harder, unless someone comes up with an exhaustive list of > all the possible spellings of each and every one of Windows time-zone > names.) > > > This change cannot be just a reflection of an implementation > > difficulty (e.g. bad Microsoft implementation of `tzname'), because > > you said that it was an intentional design change. > > It wasn't a design change. Of course it was. 1. It was intentional, not an accident. 2. It changed the user-observable behavior. That's design, by definition. It's not just invisible implementation. If you change the "implementation" of `car' so that it returns the cdr of a cons, that's not just an implementation change - users can see the difference. > It was a change in the implementation that > eliminated use of broken functionality of the C library. The design > remains the same: `format-time-string' is the Emacs equivalent of > `strftime'. That `format-time-string' must be only and always Posix-compliant is a new interpretation. That was never the documented mission of this function. Show us something documenting the contrary. > > > > So? What requires `format-time-string' to use only > > > > Posix- or RFC-822 specs? > > > > > > I explained that in my message. > > > > You most certainly did not. What _requires_ the result to > > be _only_ Posix or RFC-822 compliant? > > The fact that we expect these strings to be consumed by other > programs, not just by humans. "We" do? Always? Only? That's the question. I don't expect these strings to always be Posix-compliant, and neither can anyone else, justifiably, based on the documentation. Lacking a functional spec, the doc is our guide to the intention and the expected user-visible behavior. This Posix-only interpretation is a new invention, and represents an unwarranted change. It's not unwarranted to provide Posix-compliance; it is unwarranted to provide _only_ Posix compliance. If you want a function whose output is always Posix-compliant, then create a new one. If it is enough to have a format key for `format-time-string' that always produces Posix-compliant output, then just add such a key. I don't (the doc doesn't) demand that `format-time-string' _never_ produce Posix output. You are demanding that it _always_ produce Posix output. Don't be so restrictive. As I see it, there are two options that don't contradict the documented behavior and yet provide both (1) Posix behavior when you want it and (2) some meaningful timezone name, even on Windows, when you are willing to forego Posix compliance. #1 gives you what you want for program input; #2 gives humans something meaningful on Windows, since nonempty Posix names are currently impossible in that context. These are those two options: either different functions or different keys for the same function. A. Create a new function, `format-Posix-time-string' for the limited behavior that you want, and keep `format-time-string' for the less restricted behavior. (Or vice versa, though that hassles backward compatibility.) B. Create a new format key for `format-time-string'. Assign either the new key or %Z to the limited behavior that you want, and assign %Z or the new key to the less restricted behavior. IOW, please try to find a way to provide Posix functionality (good) and also human-meaningful timezone names on Windows (also good). There is room for both. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Juanma Barranquero" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Juanma Barranquero" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:40:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121805489830733 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:40:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 20:34:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76KYsnB030721 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:34:56 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQpig-0007sd-JK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:34:54 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQpie-0007sN-T0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:34:54 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35405 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQpie-0007sJ-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:34:52 -0400 Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.177]:16240) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQpie-0006gY-JE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:34:52 -0400 Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c21so86302ika.2 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=YQAFhFRLd3Alnwylz1drD634/Mau8B+ZWv8UdGkXDWA=; b=x7Oxi1r4w58IlwsUIo+acIBbtlwOQ2N6b9XMjA+HtEbn8WrGahk2mE/fFpze6LTYLa J9Jqz01op8HFokJOrlQ5VN4u5oUK5mYl+mHtNUGwMM/p838uRMxZhj9ohM0q20mOjSdQ wq41HIHKu30iqVWwJVp8J86Y4m6dMgAIemVas= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=Ag6khiyVPtl3ViFZcV6RF+6lti4VZ+xld7DZrY+mX8B9Z1B7OGgdp+/060wR3abbFU MNpOoE4n/3Qw2b4ea52dbmlfXXaye4Hm5wZrOo8TTzZAICrHBnqel3hrC/UwE6k0qGEE xTVXqDqwxjLfEyJsyrdLIyeybnBHG4+JmQklg= Received: by 10.210.29.11 with SMTP id c11mr3042053ebc.119.1218054891572; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 22:34:51 +0200 From: "Juanma Barranquero" To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <00ff01c8f7fd$5d92d6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ff01c8f7fd$5d92d6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 21:48, Drew Adams wrote: >> `format-time-string' is a Lisp interface to the Posix function >> `strftime' from the standard C library. > > That's what I question. Where does it say that that is the mission of > `format-time-string'? This is a new interpretation, AFAICT. Where does it say > that `format-time-string' must be implemented only as a transparent front end to > `strftime'? At the time the function was introduced, the docstring clearly said: "The number of options reflects the strftime(3) function." http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/emacs/src/editfns.c?r1=1.67&r2=1.68&pathrev=HEAD Two years later Richard rewrote the docstring and that bit disappeared: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/emacs/src/editfns.c?r1=1.153&r2=1.154&pathrev=HEAD It is open to interpretation (or asking him) whether the intent was to detach strftime from format-time-string or not. Juanma From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121805768213345 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:30:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 21:21:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76LLHDH013339 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:21:18 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqRY-0003XC-PF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:21:16 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqRX-0003Wz-Fd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:21:16 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37936 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqRX-0003Ww-46 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:21:15 -0400 Received: from mtaout5.012.net.il ([84.95.2.13]:50494) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQqRX-0005bf-1S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:21:15 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.7.152]) by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K5700A937AROOR1@i_mtaout5.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:20:51 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:20:36 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Ted Zlatanov Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > From: Ted Zlatanov > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:53:12 -0500 > > Does this help? The Microsoft documentation linked by this article > implies that GetTimeZoneInformation() will DTRT. > > http://www.chronos-st.org/Discovering%20the%20Local%20Time%20Zone--Why%20It%27s%20a%20Hard%20Problem.html Thanks, but unfortunately it doesn't help. That article explains how to know and apply the complicated rules of the switch to DST. Windows XP already knows that: the relevant rules, which on Posix machines are in the /usr/share/zoneinfo directory, are stored on Windows in the Registry. And last year, when the US switched to complex DST rules, Microsoft published an update that imported the DST rules for most of the world into the Registry, so now every Windows installation can automatically switch to DST and back. But this is a different problem. The problem I wanted to solve is to get something like JST+2JDT instead of "Jerusalem Daylight Time". And that cannot be solved by using Windows API, AFAIK, because the latter is what Windows stores as the TZ name in its database. In particular, a test program that prints the TZ name returned by GetTimeZoneInformation is the same "Jerusalem Daylight Time" that we find in `tzname'. I don't think RFC-822 compliant TZ names such as EST-5EDT can be found anywhere in the Windows APIs and libraries, but I'd be glad to be proven wrong. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Juanma Barranquero" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Juanma Barranquero" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121805853217701 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:45:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 21:35:32 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76LZQsl017695 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:35:29 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqfE-0004Mw-WD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:35:25 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqfC-0004Ly-3A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:35:23 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=56140 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQqfC-0004Lv-12 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:35:22 -0400 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]:3909) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQqfB-000770-Hg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:35:22 -0400 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so66218nfi.26 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:35:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=KTARYG+r219ehvJNh78jGxGq2y0VHZtGQWmnOhUpu2w=; b=RzPFo+kxDH2vx7Au5hrB9LNBQt03gEsGjh+aqckh0WVyFQBMllNAvWcyZ/Q1l2rBiF UwXdvU732mwa4PwThtfyYuTJMIm2ZIcQVaiqleBmAcj3XlI3h5+eiRTwnY7CUJiSpEzB /uNaC0NPLVWND49nvfrNH9mqv590Ozuslg8kA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=wEki405RaRrjOEt5sOnfPQOLb9UdcdRO7PrsaEAbVW/4cKNOnOf4sa9Vty5DxDMrmy dk2i19Uj+vqQl7mATB1l8lt2OPB+6VRyWmGZsgRP3h3C7GOXh7dDlpLmFOTnE8P0/xW/ 0BiM6UVn4Keocf/IgJuEjVnVuI5JkOExfA9Ec= Received: by 10.210.47.7 with SMTP id u7mr3150091ebu.4.1218058516905; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 23:35:16 +0200 From: "Juanma Barranquero" To: "Ted Zlatanov" Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 21:53, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > Does this help? The Microsoft documentation linked by this article > implies that GetTimeZoneInformation() will DTRT. > > http://www.chronos-st.org/Discovering%20the%20Local%20Time%20Zone--Why%20It%27s%20a%20Hard%20Problem.html It does return the "Microsoft timezone name", not Posix. In my system, it currently returns "Hora de verano romance". Juanma From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:15:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121806400212888 (code B ref -1); Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:15:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Aug 2008 23:06:42 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m76N6cdd012882 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:06:40 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQs5W-0006Xj-Ly for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:06:38 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQs5U-0006XK-92 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:06:37 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=38670 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQs5U-0006XH-3H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:06:36 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:62959) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQs5O-00031n-6i; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:06:30 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m76N6Dhu006787; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:06:13 -0500 Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m76GWF8q011571; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:06:12 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt358.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11279796451218063951; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:05:51 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:05:51 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" , <641@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ff01c8f7fd$5d92d6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:05:59 -0700 Message-ID: <013301c8f818$fdf19270$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj4BOvRT5tXzfF4TIK/RX4bbDBPAgAE1Rdw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > At the time the function was introduced, the docstring clearly said: > "The number of options reflects the strftime(3) function." > http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/emacs/src/editfns.c?r > 1=1.67&r2=1.68&pathrev=HEAD > > Two years later Richard rewrote the docstring and that bit > disappeared: > http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/emacs/emacs/src/editfns.c?r > 1=1.153&r2=1.154&pathrev=HEAD > > It is open to interpretation (or asking him) whether the intent was to > detach strftime from format-time-string or not. OK, thanks. I really don't care which function lets you format a time to produce a timezone name on Windows. If `format-time-string' continued to do that, that would be more backward-compatible, but that's not a biggee. It would be fine if it were some other function (or some other format key, besides %Z) that provided this feature. Just so we don't lose all ability to do this. For the record, I probably will use %z for my application. But I feel nevertheless that we should continue to provide some way to produce a timezone name (on Windows), however rudimentary, language-specific, or non-compliant that name might be. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Juanma Barranquero" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Juanma Barranquero" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:25:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121807902123521 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:25:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 03:17:01 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m773GvAu023515 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:16:58 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQvzl-0005eB-7f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:16:57 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KQvzi-0005Xz-EW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:16:55 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52349 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KQvzi-0005Xt-Bl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:16:54 -0400 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]:49207) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KQvzi-0000FY-8Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:16:54 -0400 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so98398nfi.26 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=tJviLzYksu6LDTupZLFi9JT++aq+sJ8JPxV67AnP2c4=; b=RpDBltvJ6oCA0Qr2c/QiKAN0odO7J8B/omaI9V1JqqKnSO/GjMGsym2X+ZBNzZrhDc KD48NC7jRFAfPCeo/k28mi1RMod8RDbDiCDZ9kTbsHFL7EpNEpMr48GIWlG9WKOOyDqz sb8AzO7AWAJFohtZQMLcvZv8DW+tgvjB84ffs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=oeRB6NGM1MSTu6VJpZxzZH2+VKVabEqgM2gotkPF2+TGbeXn3ZV77oOcvWZilcxJOC 7VG9etyIfIA/2jXGY9/3nG187kW7JsYu+ciHINPC+aFc7HvSdWLSkJveONBTQFBAdFj8 R5N3O14C+73uLR80MusDW6uesYq5J8VprCZco= Received: by 10.210.89.4 with SMTP id m4mr3372343ebb.132.1218079013250; Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 05:16:53 +0200 From: "Juanma Barranquero" To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, "Eli Zaretskii" , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <013301c8f818$fdf19270$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ff01c8f7fd$5d92d6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <013301c8f818$fdf19270$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 01:05, Drew Adams wrote: > But I feel > nevertheless that we should continue to provide some way to produce a timezone > name (on Windows), however rudimentary, language-specific, or non-compliant that > name might be. IMHO, Windows timezone names (because of its non-standard nature, localization and, often, bad translations) are a waste of time and we should not invest resources in trying to do anything with them. Juanma From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12181332406049 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:30:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77IKaDk006042 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:20:37 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRA6G-0008Ls-4Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:20:36 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRA6F-0008L5-Di for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:20:35 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33411 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRA6F-0008Kr-7Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:20:35 -0400 Received: from mtaout6.012.net.il ([84.95.2.16]:48935) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRA6E-0000kj-Tq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:20:35 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.62.79]) by i-mtaout6.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K58009JTTMOZGI0@i-mtaout6.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:20:49 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:20:33 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Ted Zlatanov Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) > From: Ted Zlatanov > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:20:46 -0500 > > We could build a database of known Microsoft timezones and map them to > ISO timezones. It has to be done just once and then updated very > rarely--timezone names don't change often. The full list of timezones > is in > > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones I already mentioned this possibility in an earlier message here. The problem is that what you actually see in `tzname' could be a localized name, not the US English name. So unless someone finds (or crafts) an exhaustive list of all TZ names both in English and in any localized language to which each one could be translated by Windows, this will work only on some machines. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:00:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121813509615079 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:00:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 18:51:36 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77IpWxj015073 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:51:33 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAaC-0004Ao-DZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:51:32 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAaB-0004AI-DX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:51:31 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37619 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAaB-0004A9-7Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:51:31 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:49513) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRAa5-00069R-Oq; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:51:26 -0400 Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:64189 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KRAa3-00005b-5Y; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:51:24 +0200 Message-ID: <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:51:11 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org CC: Ted Zlatanov , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080807-0, 2008-08-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KRAa3-00005b-5Y. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KRAa3-00005b-5Y efdf8446198443d4aa59dda1592b5515 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Ted Zlatanov >> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:20:46 -0500 >> >> We could build a database of known Microsoft timezones and map them to >> ISO timezones. It has to be done just once and then updated very >> rarely--timezone names don't change often. The full list of timezones >> is in >> >> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones > > I already mentioned this possibility in an earlier message here. The > problem is that what you actually see in `tzname' could be a localized > name, not the US English name. So unless someone finds (or crafts) an > exhaustive list of all TZ names both in English and in any localized > language to which each one could be translated by Windows, this will > work only on some machines. How many time zones are there? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121813564918009 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:10:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 19:00:49 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77J0ktB018003 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:00:47 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAj8-00006J-77 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:00:46 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAj7-00005E-Eo for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46634 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRAj7-000052-AW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from mtaout6.012.net.il ([84.95.2.16]:53530) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRAj7-0007T0-5X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:00:45 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.62.79]) by i-mtaout6.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K58009T9VG8ZGP0@i-mtaout6.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:00:09 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:59:53 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:51:11 +0200 > From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" > CC: Ted Zlatanov , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Ted Zlatanov > >> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:20:46 -0500 > >> > >> We could build a database of known Microsoft timezones and map them to > >> ISO timezones. It has to be done just once and then updated very > >> rarely--timezone names don't change often. The full list of timezones > >> is in > >> > >> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones > > > > I already mentioned this possibility in an earlier message here. The > > problem is that what you actually see in `tzname' could be a localized > > name, not the US English name. So unless someone finds (or crafts) an > > exhaustive list of all TZ names both in English and in any localized > > language to which each one could be translated by Windows, this will > > work only on some machines. > > > How many time zones are there? I see 87 on my machine. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12181400717992 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:20:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 20:14:31 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77KERqY007986 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:14:29 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRBsR-00012R-AA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:27 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRBsN-0000wQ-5H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:26 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58607 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRBsN-0000wH-1A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:23 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:58787) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRBsJ-00018E-13; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:19 -0400 Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:63879 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KRBsG-00078L-5m; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:14:17 +0200 Message-ID: <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:14:10 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eli Zaretskii CC: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080807-0, 2008-08-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KRBsG-00078L-5m. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KRBsG-00078L-5m 3f75233bae40777101a5b048024c262d X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:51:11 +0200 >> From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" >> CC: Ted Zlatanov , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> From: Ted Zlatanov >>>> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:20:46 -0500 >>>> >>>> We could build a database of known Microsoft timezones and map them to >>>> ISO timezones. It has to be done just once and then updated very >>>> rarely--timezone names don't change often. The full list of timezones >>>> is in >>>> >>>> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones >>> I already mentioned this possibility in an earlier message here. The >>> problem is that what you actually see in `tzname' could be a localized >>> name, not the US English name. So unless someone finds (or crafts) an >>> exhaustive list of all TZ names both in English and in any localized >>> language to which each one could be translated by Windows, this will >>> work only on some machines. >> >> How many time zones are there? > > I see 87 on my machine. Does that mean that there is a mapping one to many from the numeric format to the string format? How is that resolved? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:35:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814098712412 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:35:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 20:29:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77KTiIn012406 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:29:45 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRC7E-0006Ll-7c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:29:44 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRC7C-0006Jl-TH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:29:43 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48304 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRC7C-0006Jd-Mx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:29:42 -0400 Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il ([84.95.2.4]:50304) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRC7C-0003m3-8i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:29:42 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.62.79]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K58000HMZLVWTG1@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:29:56 +0300 (IDT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:29:40 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:14:10 +0200 > From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" > CC: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > >> How many time zones are there? > > > > I see 87 on my machine. > > Does that mean that there is a mapping one to many from the numeric > format to the string format? How is that resolved? Sorry, I'm not following: what numeric format? how is what resolved? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:45:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814142215203 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:45:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 20:37:02 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77KawLt015197 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:37:00 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCEE-0005oA-FF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:36:58 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCEC-0005mF-Q2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:36:57 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42436 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCEC-0005m6-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:36:56 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:39997) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCE7-0005AV-R5; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:36:52 -0400 Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:64455 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCE6-0005ny-3k; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:36:50 +0200 Message-ID: <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:36:44 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eli Zaretskii CC: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080807-0, 2008-08-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KRCE6-0005ny-3k. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KRCE6-0005ny-3k 68304a1d9abfed83fe232408d6669416 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:14:10 +0200 >> From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" >> CC: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> >>>> How many time zones are there? >>> I see 87 on my machine. >> Does that mean that there is a mapping one to many from the numeric >> format to the string format? How is that resolved? > > Sorry, I'm not following: what numeric format? how is what resolved? I guess I am missing something. And I express my self a bit lazy. I mean that the time zone is known, it can be get with "%z". This gives things like "+0200". This is in essence a number. I would expect there to be just a little bit more than 24 possible different return values from "%z". It would be 24 if all zones where whole hours different from UTC (or what it is called now). But since some zones uses half hours it could be more. However 87 is a surprisingly high figure for me. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Juanma Barranquero" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Juanma Barranquero" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:05:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814274821325 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:05:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 20:59:08 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77Kx5QV021319 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:59:06 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCZd-0000LV-7N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:59:05 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCZZ-0000I2-PI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:59:04 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52787 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCZZ-0000Hd-Dv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:59:01 -0400 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]:15590) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCZZ-0008TG-0d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:59:01 -0400 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so259040nfi.26 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Tz9PQPA/7X4txXGcNhW+/s6hBjVQ5cH0Bu4yX7VLLIQ=; b=Z12iLvlH9yXu6OJrFpIZ2gqslrStjywkL38MsHwoPG8Rn2YsboonwEXOp0vbFxcZO4 E+hHaWVXuRx0W6ryD1ZIrTqfelvMFWjVK2P4XsqZxY2g50lziOZjWJWnG3MGyeGGR3R1 yifUfy64h7inEhb6fx0wRCR4BIWruY/Vmlz+w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=Ef3SiNZEvC1OnT9ICVEMH+WkvNyiRkmrHIBPkryYnOH0YVux/u5uI08A8I5i6CpGvi Nm5iKZ7q1Av1ub8R1ZikjQ7bKpO4iVPdb3mrFxpW1NLUuIclEUsjic6wPlIYFps2euuV X3tZI3Vr1xvKruN1tOdE+gmmxShGZw+CpWESc= Received: by 10.210.73.12 with SMTP id v12mr4519338eba.101.1218142738599; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:58:58 +0200 From: "Juanma Barranquero" To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 22:36, Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote: > I would expect there to be just a little bit more than 24 possible different > return values from "%z". It would be 24 if all zones where whole hours > different from UTC (or what it is called now). But since some zones uses > half hours it could be more. > > However 87 is a surprisingly high figure for me. You're assuming too much. Countries in the same apparent time zone do not have to follow the same DST rules, for example. Juanma From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:10:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814307822830 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:10:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 21:04:38 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77L4ZWa022824 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:04:36 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCew-0004cG-TV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:04:34 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCev-0004bS-Av for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:04:34 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48972 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCev-0004bN-5F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:04:33 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:50032) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCeq-0000lh-NS; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:04:29 -0400 Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:64335 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCek-00027K-5h; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:04:23 +0200 Message-ID: <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:04:12 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juanma Barranquero CC: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080807-0, 2008-08-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KRCek-00027K-5h. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KRCek-00027K-5h c4b234ee7dac37eac8667f7352a6b63a X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 22:36, Lennart Borgman (gmail) > wrote: > >> I would expect there to be just a little bit more than 24 possible different >> return values from "%z". It would be 24 if all zones where whole hours >> different from UTC (or what it is called now). But since some zones uses >> half hours it could be more. >> >> However 87 is a surprisingly high figure for me. > > You're assuming too much. Countries in the same apparent time zone do > not have to follow the same DST rules, for example. Yes, I surely am assuming something that is wrong ;-) Is not "+0200" the offset from the UTC standard time zone (or whatever it is called)? Is there 87 such values? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Juanma Barranquero" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Juanma Barranquero" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814361826509 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:20:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 21:13:38 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77LDX5E026503 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:13:35 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCnc-0006BG-9u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:13:32 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCna-00067f-8X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:13:31 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40927 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCna-00067P-3z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:13:30 -0400 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]:17643) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCnZ-00023n-G2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:13:29 -0400 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so261164nfi.26 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:13:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SMy4e2I2Kr5l3wY/6OCGUcPjAyL5VUudXPZXVnNzCkw=; b=je8JSyP80dQxX2Dqv3qg6A2iY0h1hKlP8hwpGJO8T6vLEAdsEDOQ69g96x7w74/qMM +Lm8KCDx+EYvQoBh5NjbUjkMLLvRNc3xm2dUklIvl0JB014F8E4e3ozFGaxkBSDmrPc0 eXt0rRm4npRzXASVXWCLrv/u/LBqKA4uL99Qs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=rZcX2FaxPtHT2WjJBFoZ3aLex9FM0h5SKQVBNmNdLNdgbKdZ9pWquD3slgBY07fAqR aad9lIsC4+Lpx330vPOAS2dZREoNuFvuW1OQl3ZnwaKRJs7vgX+iOOa0IpCOoOg0A1Kx IiogUuf7Bos0xbpzCM7OnPEYaGhSByhonTkDM= Received: by 10.210.28.6 with SMTP id b6mr4531736ebb.121.1218143607410; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.71.14 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:13:27 +0200 From: "Juanma Barranquero" To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Cc: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, "Eli Zaretskii" , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 23:04, Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote: > Is not "+0200" the offset from the UTC standard time zone (or whatever it is > called)? Is there 87 such values? Who's talking about offsets from UTC? We were talking about Microsoft's "time zones", i.e., entries in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones. These contain additional info. Juanma From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: martin rudalics , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: martin rudalics Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:25:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814395928000 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:25:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 21:19:19 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77LJFeY027990 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:19:16 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCt7-0001KW-Kj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:19:13 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCt4-0001Ju-VI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:19:13 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55555 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRCt4-0001Jn-OL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:19:10 -0400 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]:36465) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRCt3-0002eO-PO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:19:10 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Aug 2008 21:19:05 -0000 Received: from 62-47-53-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.53.251]) [62.47.53.251] by mail.gmx.net (mp029) with SMTP; 07 Aug 2008 23:19:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+EgCI//G+EzCSCdv3ui8FVU/lN7ZzMC0tjMYQtGt Rab7tEBtaDl26p Message-ID: <489B6716.7070006@gmx.at> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:20:22 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org CC: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.8100000000000001 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 >>How many time zones are there? > > I see 87 on my machine. Hmmm ... I suppose these include DSTs. Anyway, wouldn't we have to multiply this with the number of languages supported? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:40:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121814470932362 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:40:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 21:31:49 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77LVkc1032340 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:31:47 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRD5F-0007ZV-UU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:31:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRD5E-0007XB-F1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:31:45 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40615 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRD5E-0007X2-CQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:31:44 -0400 Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]:57486) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRD5A-0004C8-20; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:31:40 -0400 Received: from c83-254-151-176.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.151.176]:64371 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KRD57-0005u2-4m; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:31:37 +0200 Message-ID: <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:31:31 +0200 From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juanma Barranquero CC: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080807-0, 2008-08-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.151.176 X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KRD57-0005u2-4m. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KRD57-0005u2-4m 78b30cb52693e806ecb5ba7518976e99 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 23:04, Lennart Borgman (gmail) > wrote: > >> Is not "+0200" the offset from the UTC standard time zone (or whatever it is >> called)? Is there 87 such values? > > Who's talking about offsets from UTC? We were talking about > Microsoft's "time zones", i.e., entries in > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time > Zones. These contain additional info. Yes, that is what I am asking about. As martin (and someone more) said it could be DST. To make it clear what I am asking for: Isn't there an official list that we could map to, using those variables that are needed? From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work,starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:55:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12181457564507 (code B ref -1); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:55:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Aug 2008 21:49:16 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m77LnDnO004501 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:49:14 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRDM8-00038O-QC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:49:12 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRDM7-00034m-8F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:49:12 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48763 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRDM6-00034c-VG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:49:10 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:15437) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRDM6-0006BZ-Hs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:49:10 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m77LmusC029797; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:48:57 -0600 Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m77FskQ8025952; Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:48:56 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11307549451218145665; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:47:45 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:47:45 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" , <641@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" Cc: , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com><86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:47:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003301c8f8d7$3d42bc60$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj40e7mZ1LPz8qtRWCe/09m4A+gDQABNoqg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > > I would expect there to be just a little bit more than 24 > > possible different return values from "%z". It would be 24 > > if all zones where whole hours different from UTC (or what > > it is called now). But since some zones uses > > half hours it could be more. > > > > However 87 is a surprisingly high figure for me. > > You're assuming too much. Countries in the same apparent time zone do > not have to follow the same DST rules, for example. Not just different DST rules, and not just language differences. Different countries with regions in the same UTC offset can have different names for the same zone: Cuba Summer Time and Chile Time are both UTC -04, for example. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121817945814846 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:20:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 07:10:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m787ArbB014840 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:10:54 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRM7h-0002yc-6K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:10:53 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRM7f-0002vj-ED for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:10:51 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34833 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRM7f-0002vY-5Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:10:51 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:26763) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRM7f-0005cn-3e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:10:51 -0400 Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRM7c-000295-HU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:10:49 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K5900H6HT9DST20@i-mtaout7.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:10:26 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:10:10 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:31:31 +0200 > From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" > CC: 641@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Eli Zaretskii , > tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > To make it clear what I am asking for: Isn't there an official list that > we could map to, using those variables that are needed? We need a list that shows the time zone names in all languages each time zone can be translated to by Windows due to locale definitions. If someone knows where to find such a list, please tell. I'm not aware of such a list, FWIW. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:25:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121817988016440 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:25:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 07:18:00 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m787HtsW016434 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:17:57 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMEV-0008Ta-Dj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:17:55 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMEU-0008SU-L4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:17:55 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=57095 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMEU-0008S7-E7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:17:54 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:27146) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRMEU-000661-KE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:17:54 -0400 Received: from mtaout6.012.net.il ([84.95.2.16]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRMET-0002aG-AR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:17:53 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout6.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K5900BXZTM7S6F0@i-mtaout6.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:18:08 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:17:52 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <489B6716.7070006@gmx.at> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: martin rudalics Cc: lennart.borgman@gmail.com, tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <001501c8f67e$7c63b300$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <008601c8f756$9bce0f00$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00a001c8f786$fa665d30$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B6716.7070006@gmx.at> X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:20:22 +0200 > From: martin rudalics > CC: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" , > tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > >>How many time zones are there? > > > > I see 87 on my machine. > > Hmmm ... I suppose these include DSTs. No, they are just _names_. Under each name there are rules for switching between standard and daylight-saving time, and also the specific strings to use as the time-zone name during standard and daylight-saving periods. > Anyway, wouldn't we have to multiply this with the number of > languages supported? Each name should be multiplied by the number of spellings in different languages supported by the corresponding locale. I don't know what is the multiplication factor, but it's probably at least 2. And that's in addition to the 2 values for standard and daylight-saving periods. However, the sheer number of the possible names is not the issue now. It's the fact that we simply do not know all the possible spellings that makes this idea impossible to implement at this time. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121818009517801 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:30:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,GMAIL, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 07:21:35 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m787LVPf017795 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:21:32 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMHz-00045X-2Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:21:31 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMHy-00043e-6v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:21:30 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42188 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRMHy-00043X-1i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:21:30 -0400 Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:27424) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRMHy-0006Mm-9t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:21:30 -0400 Received: from mtaout1.012.net.il ([84.95.2.1]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRMHw-0002pb-K0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 03:21:29 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout1.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K5900G1ATRO7220@i-mtaout1.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:21:24 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:21:08 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86skthj4yf.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) > Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:04:12 +0200 > From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" > CC: 641@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Eli Zaretskii , > tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > You're assuming too much. Countries in the same apparent time zone do > > not have to follow the same DST rules, for example. > > Yes, I surely am assuming something that is wrong ;-) > > Is not "+0200" the offset from the UTC standard time zone (or whatever > it is called)? Yes, it is, but what string would you translate +0200 to? There are numerous time-zone names that map to the same offset at any given time. It is impossible to use just one random time-zone name for this translation, because tomorrow some of them will switch to +0300, while others will not. In other words, if the offset is all you care about, you could simply use %z, and be done with it. This isn't the problem we are discussing. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work,starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:05:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121821105512720 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:05:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 15:57:35 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m78FvWGK012714 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:57:33 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRULM-0000du-36 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:57:32 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRULJ-0000dZ-L4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:57:30 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55601 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRULJ-0000dW-F9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:57:29 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:38082) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRULI-00053k-TD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:57:29 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m78FvKqP008042; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:57:21 -0600 Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m78E3pGN007489; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:57:17 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11324381301218211030; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:57:10 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:57:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Ted Zlatanov'" , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com><489B634C.1040602@gmail.com><489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:57:11 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> Thread-Index: Acj5bcashNngfrBjREmmvNIeW35TlgAAEmgw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > We could at least provide this, and if the mapping fails we > could print a message that it's an unknown string, and the > user can submit a bug. %Z could show the full Windows-provided > name, which IMHO is better than nothing. Yes, my point from the beginning is that the Windows name can be better than nothing, depending on your needs. It depends on what you want/need in any given context. I agree with Eli that we also need to let users specify, when they need it, a name guaranteed to be Posix-compliant, which would be "" if no other Posix name is appropriate. IOW, we should give users _both_ possibilities unambiguously: Posix-only and possibly-non-Posix, better-than-nothing, YMMV, human-readable name. We can do that by introducing a new format key, in addition to %Z. Either %Z or the new key can be for the better-than-nothing, human-readable name. %Z for this has the advantage of backward compatibility. %Z for the Posix-compliant name has the advantage that "Z" is itself a Posix convention. I'm OK with either approach. The important thing is to give users the option of specifying either name format, depending on their needs. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:25:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12182158085193 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:25:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 17:16:48 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m78HGiuf005187 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:16:45 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVZz-0002o9-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:16:43 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVZy-0002ms-R7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:16:43 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40500 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVZy-0002ma-Kc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:16:42 -0400 Received: from mtaout5.012.net.il ([84.95.2.13]:14712) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRVZy-0000WS-Eg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:16:42 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K5A002CQLC97890@i_mtaout5.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:16:57 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:16:41 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Ted Zlatanov Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > From: Ted Zlatanov > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:04:24 -0500 > > Closest I could find is this chart: > > http://unicode.org/cldr/data/diff/supplemental/windows_tzid.html Thanks. I knew about it, it's on my disk for quite some time. > We could at least provide this, and if the mapping fails we could print > a message that it's an unknown string, and the user can submit a bug. > %Z could show the full Windows-provided name, which IMHO is better than > nothing. Sorry, but I object to partial solutions like this, since I don't think providing just English names will satisfy most users. Perhaps someone could search the Windows files and find the translations; they must be somewhere inside the Windows installation, since the name of the time zone changes as soon as you modify a certain option in the regional settings. > In addition, we can attempt to guess the right value based on the > localized string and offset, e.g. Hebrew is probably Israel's time > zone. Hebrew is an easy case, because the characters tell you unequivocally what is the locale. Latin letters, for example, are much harder. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12182161606730 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:30:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 17:22:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m78HMZBp006664 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:22:37 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVfe-0007S9-2G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:22:34 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVfc-0007RV-Ju for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:22:33 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41186 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVfc-0007RS-Ha for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:22:32 -0400 Received: from mtaout5.012.net.il ([84.95.2.13]:15406) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRVfc-0001VL-5g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:22:32 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K5A002DXLLY78A0@i_mtaout5.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:22:47 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:22:30 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-id: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:57:11 -0700 > Cc: > > IOW, we should give users _both_ possibilities unambiguously: Posix-only and > possibly-non-Posix, better-than-nothing, YMMV, human-readable name. > > We can do that by introducing a new format key, in addition to %Z. I'm okay with having a new format, or with adding a function that would return a time-zone name that is just a string, not the spec codified by Posix. (It could return strings like "Asia/Riyadh" on Posix platforms.) From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:35:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12182164998242 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:35:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 17:28:19 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m78HSGwe008236 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:28:17 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVl9-0002MN-Ve for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:28:16 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVl8-0002Lx-CM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:28:15 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42351 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRVl8-0002Li-3j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:28:14 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:17171) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRVl2-0002ON-Oh; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:28:09 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m78HS5Rm021735; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:28:05 -0600 Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m78FpnKX031086; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:28:04 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11326144101218216443; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:27:23 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:27:22 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:27:26 -0700 Message-ID: <003301c8f97c$074e6be0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acj5e21LxM3DXTsDQySnyILEazGGkwAAC6og X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 > > IOW, we should give users _both_ possibilities > > unambiguously: Posix-only and possibly-non-Posix, > > better-than-nothing, YMMV, human-readable name. > > > > We can do that by introducing a new format key, in addition to %Z. > > I'm okay with having a new format, or with adding a function that > would return a time-zone name that is just a string, not the spec > codified by Posix. (It could return strings like "Asia/Riyadh" on > Posix platforms.) Great. Thanks. Either solution is fine by me. Probably a new format is better for users (keep everything in one place), if there are no other considerations. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Andreas Schwab , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Andreas Schwab Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:55:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.121822123832542 (code B ref -1); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:55:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 8 Aug 2008 18:47:18 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m78IlEWL032536 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:47:16 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRWza-0005fA-GL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:47:14 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KRWzY-0005dx-QR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:47:13 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47520 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KRWzY-0005dq-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:47:12 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:52770) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KRWzY-0006MS-GT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:47:12 -0400 Received: from Relay2.suse.de (mail2.suse.de [195.135.221.8]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B774045D9D; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:47:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Drew Adams Cc: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Ted Zlatanov'" , References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-Yow: My FAVORITE group is "QUESTION MARK & THE MYSTERIANS"... Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:47:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:57:11 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 "Drew Adams" writes: > We can do that by introducing a new format key, in addition to %Z. Like %EZ. Andreas. --=20 Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de SuSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstra=DFe 5, 90409 N=FCrnberg, Germany PGP key fingerprint =3D 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED= 5 "And now for something completely different." From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Reply-To: Stefan Monnier , 641@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , don@donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:10:07 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 641 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12184957079514 (code B ref -1); Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:10:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 11 Aug 2008 23:01:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7BN1eBD009476 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:01:41 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSgOS-0002ba-6k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:01:40 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KSgOP-0002aJ-VG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:01:39 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47737 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KSgOP-0002aC-RF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:01:37 -0400 Received: from smtp-05.arnet.com.ar ([200.45.191.5]:49515) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KSgOO-00041L-Rb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:01:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 2838 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2008 16:59:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ceviche.home) (190.30.131.157) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Aug 2008 16:59:44 -0000 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 3B8C0B40AF; Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:46:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 641@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams , tzz@lifelogs.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <4897737C.90709@gmx.at> <86fxphgdw1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <489B441F.6070402@gmail.com> <489B5792.80504@gmail.com> <489B5CDC.3050902@gmail.com> <489B634C.1040602@gmail.com> <489B69B3.7000502@gmail.com> <86ljz7eefb.fsf@lifelogs.com> <002601c8f96f$6c224350$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:46:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:22:30 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) >> IOW, we should give users _both_ possibilities unambiguously: Posix-only and >> possibly-non-Posix, better-than-nothing, YMMV, human-readable name. >> >> We can do that by introducing a new format key, in addition to %Z. > I'm okay with having a new format, or with adding a function that > would return a time-zone name that is just a string, not the spec > codified by Posix. (It could return strings like "Asia/Riyadh" on > Posix platforms.) I could live with it, tho its usefulness is far from obvious. In any case it would not be for Emacs-23 and I'd recommend potential hackers to work on something else as that's more likely to be useful. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 19 02:49:02 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2011 06:49:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPxV-000621-Eo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:49:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10] ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPxS-00061u-KW for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:48:59 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPwT-00008G-BG for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:47:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:47:57 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 9794 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) forcemerge 641 9794 From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#641: closed (Re: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z) Message-ID: References: <83k47xe5ze.fsf@gnu.org> <001401c8f3f6$06058ab0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 641 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs,w32 Reply-To: 641@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:24:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1319275442-846-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1319275442-846-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #641: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 which was filed against the emacs,w32 package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 641@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 641: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D641 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1319275442-846-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 641-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2011 09:23:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RHXnx-0000DB-NP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:23:49 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RHXnv-0000Cu-KE; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:23:49 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LTG00F00N5XO700@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:55 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.124.212.197]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LTG00FUTNCHJU40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:55 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:57 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z In-reply-to: <87vcrifj4r.fsf@gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Jason Rumney Message-id: <83k47xe5ze.fsf@gnu.org> References: <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> <24FDB65B0E784E978085D30A7CBF9FAF@us.oracle.com> <8362jlv0rq.fsf@gnu.org> <87fwipgltl.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqhtt144.fsf@gnu.org> <4E9FD232.9090502@cs.ucla.edu> <83botct3qv.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcrifj4r.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 641-done Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 641-done@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 9794-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > From: Jason Rumney > Cc: Paul Eggert , drew.adams@oracle.com, 9794@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:40:20 +0800 > > So Paul is probably correct - we should not worry about RFC / POSIX or > whatever compliance for %Z. Thanks. So, since everybody agrees, I committed as revision 106162 the changes to nt/config.nt that make current-time-zone and the strftime's %Z format return a non-empty string on MS-Windows. ------------=_1319275442-846-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 1 09:47:17 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 1 Aug 2008 16:47:17 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m71GlD6G028093 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:47:14 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxma-0002fj-8p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:12 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxmY-0002dM-7h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:11 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41252 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KOxmY-0002dD-3c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:10 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:56505) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxmX-0006lQ-Dy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0400 Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m71Gl3fl022348 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:47:03 -0500 Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7168Lhx008861 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:46:58 -0600 Received: from inet-141-146-46-1.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 11187148141217609134; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:45:34 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.73.168) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: format-time-string %Z does not work, starting with Emacs 22.2 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:45:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c8f3f6$06058ab0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acjz9gE+Gv4BB5maRY6k1i5BFQerAw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 emacs -Q M-: (format-time-string "%Z) ==> "" M-: (format-time-string "%z) ==> "-0700" The %Z string is incorrect. In my case, it should be (as it is in Emacs 20 and Emacs 22.1): "Pacific Daylight Time". This same bug appears in Emacs 23. This is a regression from Emacs 22.1. In GNU Emacs 22.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-03-26 on RELEASE Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Help Minor modes in effect: encoded-kbd-mode: t tooltip-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t utf-translate-cjk-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t view-mode: t ------------=_1319275442-846-1-- From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:05:43 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#9794: closed (Re: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z) Message-ID: References: <83k47xe5ze.fsf@gnu.org> <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 9794 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs,w32 Reply-To: 9794@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:24:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1319275442-846-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1319275442-846-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #641: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z which was filed against the emacs,w32 package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 9794@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 641: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D641 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1319275442-846-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 641-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2011 09:23:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RHXnx-0000DB-NP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:23:49 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RHXnv-0000Cu-KE; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:23:49 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LTG00F00N5XO700@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:55 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.124.212.197]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LTG00FUTNCHJU40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:55 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:21:57 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z In-reply-to: <87vcrifj4r.fsf@gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Jason Rumney Message-id: <83k47xe5ze.fsf@gnu.org> References: <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> <24FDB65B0E784E978085D30A7CBF9FAF@us.oracle.com> <8362jlv0rq.fsf@gnu.org> <87fwipgltl.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqhtt144.fsf@gnu.org> <4E9FD232.9090502@cs.ucla.edu> <83botct3qv.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcrifj4r.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 641-done Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 641-done@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, 9794-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > From: Jason Rumney > Cc: Paul Eggert , drew.adams@oracle.com, 9794@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:40:20 +0800 > > So Paul is probably correct - we should not worry about RFC / POSIX or > whatever compliance for %Z. Thanks. So, since everybody agrees, I committed as revision 106162 the changes to nt/config.nt that make current-time-zone and the strftime's %Z format return a non-empty string on MS-Windows. ------------=_1319275442-846-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2011 06:45:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPuB-0005wc-AF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:45:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPu6-0005wO-LJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:45:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPt0-0005Xy-Tv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:44:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RP_MATCHES_RCVD,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:60300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPt0-0005Xt-NR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:44:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:47978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPsy-0006KV-QP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:44:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPsx-0005XM-2N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:44:20 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:34287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGPsw-0005XB-Rb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 02:44:18 -0400 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9J6iF41016597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:44:17 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9J6aETZ019706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:36:15 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9J6i93v021862 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 01:44:10 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.62.115) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:44:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:44:15 -0700 Message-ID: <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcyOKoR2rozwKyJrQyK+4CSzdH0BDw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E9E71C1.00F5,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) emacs -Q M-: (format-time-string "Started: %a %b %e %T %Y (%Z)" (current-time)) For me that produces this: "Started: Tue Oct 18 23:40:28 2011 ()" The %Z doesn't work at all. This is a regression that started in Emacs 22. In Emacs 20 and 21 (emacs -Q) it works correctly, displaying this: "Started: Tue Oct 18 23:40:28 2011 (Pacific Daylight Time)" If Emacs 20 can pick up the name Pacific Daylight Time correctly, from wherever it gets it, then so should Emacs 24 be able to do so. No user config (e.g. setting env vars) should be necessary. (That doesn't preclude user config - the point is that even without it %Z should DTRT.) In GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-10-18 on MARVIN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --cflags -I"C:/Program Files (x86)/GnuWin32/include" -ID:/devel/emacs/libXpm-3.5.8/include -ID:/devel/emacs/libXpm-3.5.8/src -ID:/devel/emacs/gnutls-2.10.5-x86/include --ldflags -LD:/devel/emacs/gnutls-2.10.5-x86/lib' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp1252 default enable-multibyte-characters: t ------------=_1319275442-846-3--