From unknown Mon Jun 16 23:34:39 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#63557 <63557@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#63557 <63557@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' Reply-To: bug#63557 <63557@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 06:34:39 +0000 retitle 63557 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' reassign 63557 emacs submitter 63557 Drew Adams severity 63557 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 17 15:43:55 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2023 19:43:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzN3z-0006j1-Ck for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 May 2023 15:43:55 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50946) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzN3v-0006iq-VI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Instead of just saying that non-nil allows `find-file' to visit directories, say also (as does (emacs) `Visiting') that otherwise (i.e., nil) raises an error when the arg is a directory name. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 18 01:23:21 2023 Received: (at 63557) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2023 05:23:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzW6j-0002bA-C0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2023 01:23:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzW6h-0002aw-8M for 63557@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2023 01:23:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pzW6b-0005ez-43; Thu, 18 May 2023 01:23:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2u97UXl45tQ9Q8e5ikcqZypmpqeoIYW1Jf6r9FavTfg=; b=A//TIaT14ZpQ Qt5rhBBVSVZ/jwP/yflVamIKMwvBtg3IlMS+n87s77erxh2I7FiSWJxfmsOe6CtrR5JcEfd/ReFW1 h4nIR5AMEUb9VMkkXFTnFD3B1dTIK39zPJ1nxYtjKEhfowUPsSbmWXokkgtJJo8X/D6t35u7kdY6Z S/qs1yOBS0Z4SELrEQnZ1rKvnQo/XJot3L2cJLuxoDtnGGGZav8btX2FW+SVLYIOapdzthaniMeG6 BVeHVm3dTOOri5SY7uirlz20QHo3E0gYU8bSIVfF+yxFLeFeomQbD8moKvl1uj0vrHT9tHqoWZqce 5LPzogYmOcfAIUfqdQHMUw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pzW6a-0005xv-G5; Thu, 18 May 2023 01:23:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 08:23:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8gqw6ut.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 17 May 2023 19:43:17 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#63557: 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 63557 Cc: 63557@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 19:43:17 +0000 > > Instead of just saying that non-nil allows `find-file' to visit > directories, say also (as does (emacs) `Visiting') that otherwise (i.e., > nil) raises an error when the arg is a directory name. How would you interpret "allows" in any other sense? What could "does not allow" mean when the value is nil? IOW, I don't see why would we need to spoon-feed the user in this case. The meaning of nil is crystal clear to me. 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What could "does > not allow" mean when the value is nil? > IOW, I don't see why would we need to spoon-feed the user in this > case. The meaning of nil is crystal clear to me. That you can't visit a directory is one thing. That trying to do that raises an error is a different thing. Another possible behavior that doesn't visit a directory is to do nothing. A third is to show a message, without raising an error. Not being able to do something is not the same as having an error raised if you try to do it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 18 11:47:02 2023 Received: (at 63557-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2023 15:47:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54232 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzfqH-0006RS-Ly for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2023 11:47:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pzfqF-0006RE-7l for 63557-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2023 11:47:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pzfq4-0007av-5J; Thu, 18 May 2023 11:46:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=b7XbIv/d/8kXRUySwooNy0lTrYxRxdrgdwIz6VtTur4=; b=bbpZiIy3FTPm IxURLOi0cCkoQ5NVxDzkmrQQanacouXw27ArYnr6tiDocwDYhA/QIQxORrDdT556kq6vCUgRuCHwj WvEZtWxKIrlhXqxmgPUE/XWvORKqL3vqillaD1jd+zvUpECdEMhjLjpDD0KktOhS4vuH0OjoTcvYn QI1YbeAyeIftGE5rgebHfUM41GaDZICzpKPIG6CN84xod4wRs51QQYQRROnedcCzoMv+pA0kQO347 I/DVwqCumPB3QbWbKmY2JUwu2ayhTtae77m4TnG24PKRz8V0U2X07r9byfLOWANiR+5mzkuZwhyEn njwx8NcfN6iI8eXlqnUHpA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pzfpa-0000AH-5W; Thu, 18 May 2023 11:46:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 18:46:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83ilcpve09.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 18 May 2023 15:35:03 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#63557: 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' References: <83v8gqw6ut.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 63557-done Cc: 63557-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "63557@debbugs.gnu.org" <63557@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 15:35:03 +0000 > > > > Instead of just saying that non-nil allows `find-file' to visit > > > directories, say also (as does (emacs) `Visiting') that otherwise (i.e., > > > nil) raises an error when the arg is a directory name. > > > > How would you interpret "allows" in any other sense? What could "does > > not allow" mean when the value is nil? > > IOW, I don't see why would we need to spoon-feed the user in this > > case. The meaning of nil is crystal clear to me. > > That you can't visit a directory is one thing. The doc string says "allows", not "can". > That trying to do that raises an error is a > different thing. Another possible behavior > that doesn't visit a directory is to do nothing. > A third is to show a message, without raising > an error. > > Not being able to do something is not the same > as having an error raised if you try to do it. You are splitting hair for no good reason. Closing. 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Thu, 18 May 2023 16:06:50 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#63557: 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#63557: 26.3; Doc string of `find-file-run-dired' Thread-Index: AdmI98pPUAna3WfzSGeKriqH834RvAAqDEwVAACSUhA= Date: Thu, 18 May 2023 16:06:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83v8gqw6ut.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilcpve09.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83ilcpve09.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|SN7PR10MB7104:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 732598d4-14c0-4d14-8698-08db57b9e376 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9iD0pfoMKf3hJZqQovYCpGiLRTrx2SdgS3tp9FwYcvmH2Sh5rDc27v0copgJ13pYVcni/FJ70I+jiITAaN6+VFki64fUp5UI4HcK+JDMytVQwfGKiOXU9MEGsQX8OFV0pv04NvYB+NvHekuW4n9AEWmf5ZGW1LsJl7XdmXIDQdW+1OfoF+KK9MV9N3bI5ydCF9tjFszZIapaenFutFt/h8IOvCLelsLezu8xVxH8fUIHsulP/TCqIO/vgmWz3LGcvF792Qn3AcmaIitx+OTMWK6qePevVWZG/QI7/OfVPk3RITa0zDBtyNY4fCRfs62pTkJLPgYJaZKyM4clYfmDwsyefBdhm87Um7gM72OJKs0HtYURArGiIaYyAgBuf0vloufKI99AwKqVQE5iioLvnedi+AN/QYbXQ/c2t3y5K6IJkHYB7QdwFvMtnVCR/R/OXbbSPPmOSFpVglgYbNR0SgFkTnylXxauISpkXI35crisLUhfnTCDf7kg5iuvnVMHcgX8JPbMZWtMfYs4GtYNpuHjLYLt52aciYtq+oiQyrU35FEfNB6RILKzvmndUMcdi0wU+oGT3t4LuDgrqCoW9fQMbDn0fcQKDNsJrSRz5rSLmeDMao7HRCSOz5LA4He3Po8gozOEG1QxykLsbfFuzQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 732598d4-14c0-4d14-8698-08db57b9e376 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 May 2023 16:06:49.9527 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0mxZcKUs+A9++Srkg6uOj0y35+DOvl8zCvgpGU6PJv8MbnuCa6HEPmvPjL6kR3hpanHGjjia891kqCzWZ+CMKA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN7PR10MB7104 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.573,FMLib:17.11.170.22 definitions=2023-05-18_13,2023-05-17_02,2023-02-09_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=486 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2304280000 definitions=main-2305180130 X-Proofpoint-GUID: cDgMCEDV1SmQh4rMzSVoIOCRyivQJM8G X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: cDgMCEDV1SmQh4rMzSVoIOCRyivQJM8G X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 63557-done Cc: "63557-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <63557-done@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > That you can't visit a directory is one thing. >=20 > The doc string says "allows", not "can". That you're not allowed to visit a directory is one thing. That an error is raised is another. > > That trying to do that raises an error is a > > different thing. Another possible behavior > > that doesn't visit a directory is to do nothing. > > A third is to show a message, without raising > > an error. > > > > Not being able to do something is not the same > > as having an error raised if you try to do it. >=20 > You are splitting hair for no good reason. Tell that to the manual, which rightfully makes clear that an error is raised. Ask yourself if you're perhaps refusing a simple doc fix for no good reason. From unknown Mon Jun 16 23:34:39 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator