Subject: Re: bug#631: the M- notation suggestion

From: xah lee <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:53:21 -0700

> I think you mean "GNU/Linux".

Yes. GNU/Linux. Sorry i forgot i'm talking to you. LOL. (i do support  
GNU/Linux naming)

> Linux has no user interface and its
> documentation has no reason to refer to any specific keys.

In Gnome or KDE, when you pull menus, doesn't the shortcut shows  
beside the menu command names?

I think I forgot to mention this. I think if this suggestion is to be  
adapted, changing the shortcut notation as they are displayed in  
menus should be part of it. Perhaps even more important than the manual.

> Our convention for the GNU system is C-x and M-x, which is what you
> are proposing to change.
>
>     Using a notation that contains the actual label on keyboard's  
> keys is
>     much easier to understand. A beginning computer user, can read the
>     ?Ctrl+?key?? notation and figure out which keys to press.
>
> There is some validity in that argument.
>
> For the Emacs Manual I have a feeling this would be very wasteful.
> But maybe it would be ok for some of the help commands, maybe even for
> all of them.

Wasteful, as in too much effort and little benefit?

I think the effort would be few hours of interactive find/replace in  
the emacs manual's info source. O, there's also emacs tutorial info  
file. Possibly a few more.

the other part is to fix the elisp code so that menus display  
shortcuts using the Alt+ ant Ctrl+ notations. I'm not sure how this  
can be done or how much effort it takes.

I think the benefit would be great, because it gets rid of one big  
learning curve perception that stops people from using emacs.

   Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

-------------------
On Jul 30, 2008, at 6:59 PM, Richard M Stallman wrote:

     The Alt+?key? or Ctrl+?key? notation is universal among
     Windows and Linux.

I think you mean "GNU/Linux".  Linux has no user interface and its
documentation has no reason to refer to any specific keys.

Our convention for the GNU system is C-x and M-x, which is what you
are proposing to change.

     Using a notation that contains the actual label on keyboard's  
keys is
     much easier to understand. A beginning computer user, can read the
     ?Ctrl+?key?? notation and figure out which keys to press.

There is some validity in that argument.

For the Emacs Manual I have a feeling this would be very wasteful.
But maybe it would be ok for some of the help commands, maybe even for
all of them.

☄