From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 14 13:49:27 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2023 17:49:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnNY7-0005Ao-7x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:49:27 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnNY5-0005Ag-5x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:49:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnNY4-0002Ia-Nf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:49:24 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnNY3-00083s-7N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:49:24 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id oo30so4521948qvb.12 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681494558; x=1684086558; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=a4L/qrQ4B/yby1cR0xLJOaHlaANU7GH5AmbfT0ZvJrk=; b=saL3ZRhwtL9CC4APfnr5hZFZ57yPxiTOxxCkPx4PJHuOumQn9IaAlRR+o+9u2Dj/ku BunvrhcV0RA3aH+uXFeSafWSgAgwz9tCJMFPgiL5+Za8sxV0WJGmaylU4O9fg2jP3t35 k5DUCfVNPyucSEnmErDNTP5EOk+vtt1Qkcns3omyo/ghUY86NL8gRbKjQU3MxiWuBtcj W/8zqcEZt2RN5IQeNOk33NLJ/duDwmozWdDuJzT3QViYXE+pSpcE65qSpodk2fHjTzd5 tHYH/54MWu9w0iaBw5lQkdS45iF+fkUUm8Vx7TeVmQpkZQNde4vyyhkZdf29Ex+ejSua 0NwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681494558; x=1684086558; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=a4L/qrQ4B/yby1cR0xLJOaHlaANU7GH5AmbfT0ZvJrk=; b=WMNC1maC/aQdbGVdtlVbzZic0hSAMPkmBLc64cEEIk7KJVvCJVjdoj2JnpVWNrJ8Fx W6R/NocwLzhIb0s2gy6kAcZ3vcttxggtEiFhdsbDinUKZjjypZznB0TMjuQAgUAmKvbe +xbCrdXjKdrG9RhwLGj6pNL+m2VLbuvP+iL8MBfXMpMffSXej6ozFZ+rh+I0JNGB4Scm VUxyYroEDi+9h9j3vmDS3njUhlbocizCAfYSceWWn/YF9WXsELkVhDTwVn8vBBsfgYav +jrCUnAYC0x/wxQLlqqj2Eu3UvieqQuchNw1FEbXIcEYdUCeJsSYpwW7vf0MOjDL07CS 34Bg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dK3HpVknzAFcXolzDnxPdVo5r03cVR8h+Q7pC3c9E4IiN1+VAJ 5bieT+ijsrR3LQeXY1JayFlyqOIiipI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Z1qcdFFnQICGXyW7P9u1cFVuH801sYdRtAYwZv8pIW+xShhDXk6YFMqPsVQwBFiyDKHeObTg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:5296:b0:5aa:8e3e:496e with SMTP id kj22-20020a056214529600b005aa8e3e496emr4295608qvb.34.1681494558199; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pierrot.dokosmarshall.org (pool-74-104-158-46.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [74.104.158.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k2-20020a056214024200b005ef451995f5sm1264984qvt.30.2023.04.14.10.49.17 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Dokos To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 30.0.50; Doc bug: obsolete paragraph in Elisp Ref Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:48:59 -0400 Message-ID: <874jpiz75g.fsf@pierrot.dokosmarshall.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a; envelope-from=ndokos@gmail.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emacs Lisp Reference manual, Chapter "Variables", Section "Lexical Binding" says: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- ... (Internally, the lexical environment is an alist of symbol-value pairs, with the final element in the alist being the symbol =E2=80=98t=E2= =80=99 rather than a cons cell. Such an alist can be passed as the second argument to the =E2=80=98eval=E2=80=99 function, in order to specify a lexical environm= ent in which to evaluate a form. *Note Eval::. Most Emacs Lisp programs, however, should not interact directly with lexical environments in this way; only specialized programs like debuggers.) ... --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I don't know if the structure of the lexical environment was ever really relevant: it seems to be an internal detail that should not have found its way into the documentation in the first place, but that's guessing on my part. The important thing is that it does not seem to be the case any longer: the `t' is present at the end of the lexical environment in Emacs 28.2: (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) =3D=3D> (closure ((foo . 233) = t) (x) (* x foo)) but it is no longer present in current upstream: (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) =3D=3D> (closure ((foo . 233))= (x) (* x foo)) so the above paragraph needs modification (if not outright excision). --=20 Nick From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 15 04:39:13 2023 Received: (at 62840) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2023 08:39:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48202 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnbRB-0002qO-An for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 04:39:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnbRA-0002qA-7m for 62840@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 04:39:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnbR4-0000pH-9d; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 04:39:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=aaWARmS/U0UE6mWyEH7qdMyycBLJVY4+OR13jTsiLB0=; b=SZ+YLa1wxeh33y2AY50k iVZ2e/RYCUl9s1dII/wY7pKpP4PwCckYAlEdu2Jth/pPSvps6X+tA0i1OG0l78tV+FbPOsn+Qv7tG tdIsmHJ53TVNdho69hyUqP9ecJHFHxoO0ycuOGwF4ytV/8NwbZQWKenk7KRo5jE4Q0NAwD46IMtVm tbFmczkSHMPdACfw9ShzMuFZtPOs7M5rr6C6HPD3H41EwRz3dQ2564oQacQMHCRbHOHaDrFZb/fg9 jI9RRgEea3+D7p1wBlFGERNgEimovXM+8a9B3C+4nG+FNMs6jbTf5oKSZl2CMGxHkGqO6QiN0jYJK rpHb9Qlf/rFLcQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnbR2-0003ls-BL; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 04:39:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 11:39:05 +0300 Message-Id: <837cudedzq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Nick Dokos , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <874jpiz75g.fsf@pierrot.dokosmarshall.org> (message from Nick Dokos on Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:48:59 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#62840: 30.0.50; Doc bug: obsolete paragraph in Elisp Ref References: <874jpiz75g.fsf@pierrot.dokosmarshall.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62840 Cc: 62840@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nick Dokos > Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:48:59 -0400 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emacs Lisp Reference manual, Chapter "Variables", Section "Lexical > Binding" says: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > ... > (Internally, the lexical environment is an alist of symbol-value > pairs, with the final element in the alist being the symbol ‘t’ rather > than a cons cell. Such an alist can be passed as the second argument to > the ‘eval’ function, in order to specify a lexical environment in which > to evaluate a form. *Note Eval::. Most Emacs Lisp programs, however, > should not interact directly with lexical environments in this way; only > specialized programs like debuggers.) > > ... > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > I don't know if the structure of the lexical environment was ever really > relevant: it seems to be an internal detail that should not have found > its way into the documentation in the first place, but that's guessing > on my part. > > The important thing is that it does not seem to be the case any longer: > the `t' is present at the end of the lexical environment in Emacs 28.2: > > (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) ==> (closure ((foo . 233) t) (x) (* x foo)) > > but it is no longer present in current upstream: > > (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) ==> (closure ((foo . 233)) (x) (* x foo)) > > so the above paragraph needs modification (if not outright excision). Stefan, any comments? Should this text be amended, deleted, or something else? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 15 09:11:46 2023 Received: (at 62840) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2023 13:11:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48509 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnfgw-00083D-BU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:46 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:54953) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnfgv-000830-3K for 62840@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:45 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D19BF80814; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9FD8480012; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:38 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1681564298; bh=dC3gBXZP1/u4IUyP7cqUpHiYNXlVt2YN0VpQBliEnrE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=dJ2RbM2QYL2s4kLw+7YhgT7ZmWyzj4XTJaYC6bRQMabSlXlcBgrJZAMsNX6zk+Ur2 msTKvVd9d2YgRfPh4VDMRzSgB7Q9Q+oYMWmBy8uBEo8z3IeEIW59tJSqIJ5o6jpp2d HFd/PKZoyCjQM64/wS1MxZ4FprVIgf0Vkm5CQNN+nSQkicO1fG8S2jZNH3kTgle6x1 7dQEA9JRJZpawQ1TahxoOK3AnvR3O19Pg+28gI5rADGLqQkDqHrD7aH659xvqzyAwu cahqNHiPky0l24R7ZxCVhuc7gNGNVSxD6Bfo5sTtHaOx7aQYB79uwoDFtCLXQkCXMt dt1k/SN4pFv2w== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.217.176]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73C9B12037A; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#62840: 30.0.50; Doc bug: obsolete paragraph in Elisp Ref In-Reply-To: <837cudedzq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 15 Apr 2023 11:39:05 +0300") Message-ID: References: <874jpiz75g.fsf@pierrot.dokosmarshall.org> <837cudedzq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:37 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.032 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62840 Cc: Nick Dokos , 62840@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> I don't know if the structure of the lexical environment was ever really >> relevant: it seems to be an internal detail that should not have found >> its way into the documentation in the first place, but that's guessing >> on my part. >> >> The important thing is that it does not seem to be the case any longer: >> the `t' is present at the end of the lexical environment in Emacs 28.2: >> >> (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) ==> (closure ((foo . 233) t) (x) (* x foo)) >> >> but it is no longer present in current upstream: >> >> (let ((foo 233)) (lambda (x) (* x foo))) ==> (closure ((foo . 233)) (x) (* x foo)) >> >> so the above paragraph needs modification (if not outright excision). > > Stefan, any comments? Should this text be amended, deleted, or > something else? Indeed the "with a `t` at the end" should probably not have been documented and can be removed. The `t` can still appear there (sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't). More important would be to document that beside (SYM . VAL) pairs, the env can contain symbols, which means that the lexical environment declared that variable as being locally considered as a dynbind variable. E.g. in (defun my-fun (baz) (defvar my-foo) (lambda (x) (let ((my-foo x)) (bar baz)))) `my-foo` will appear in the environment of the closure returned by the function so as to remember the `defvar` since it affects the execution of the body. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 18 07:31:50 2023 Received: (at 62840-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2023 11:31:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pojYr-0006LK-Uk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:31:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pojYo-0006L4-Uw for 62840-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:31:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pojYi-0000TU-Iv; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:31:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=bB0XprEu9iXlrx7pUAgCpRojR50d1fwKYHyy2Oga0cM=; b=F0VWTP5UzWqd 9/4pSGuU4j9W/d+5RHh8QsxFXp7pjQwz9f2PjAe3iem2+4fV60Tsv25BNKjcA8tHB+DyqXz30I8CG wytuMCEc4bmcaNn0YWr00xgsSx7n+xsWU6Kr9lrnwmja6am7MJrEEJ6ECVUQzQe3kmfEnYEyFSlN1 IjtA2bdlywKISsMcIz7KgOO97Yu+wqPHJsd+97Pta/uc4Bep0PyQhHGrTx1/tIRN6eN4K7DR/0AxJ kv/WNCnZ4OWKO8QqQjbzAxuoaVtVGC9kvYeUZhssKzhzKHCgu/dE4pyqsMjgCmCGKXbQWCOTiql3l kegLpHb/oIva9tiYcsS74w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pojYh-0003cc-UQ; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 07:31:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 14:31:47 +0300 Message-Id: <831qkha0kc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:37 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#62840: 30.0.50; Doc bug: obsolete paragraph in Elisp Ref References: <874jpiz75g.fsf@pierrot.dokosmarshall.org> <837cudedzq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62840-done Cc: ndokos@gmail.com, 62840-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Nick Dokos , 62840@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 09:11:37 -0400 > > Indeed the "with a `t` at the end" should probably not have been > documented and can be removed. The `t` can still appear there > (sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't). More important would be to > document that beside (SYM . VAL) pairs, the env can contain symbols, > which means that the lexical environment declared that variable as being > locally considered as a dynbind variable. > > E.g. in > > (defun my-fun (baz) > (defvar my-foo) > (lambda (x) (let ((my-foo x)) (bar baz)))) > > `my-foo` will appear in the environment of the closure returned by the > function so as to remember the `defvar` since it affects the execution > of the body. Thanks, fixed on the emacs-29 branch, and closing the bug. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:48:44 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator