From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Adam Porter Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 62750@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16811312362156 (code B ref -1); Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:54:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2023 12:53:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1v-0000Yi-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:53:56 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1v-0000Yb-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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rspamd-786cb55f77-zfk8x; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=adam@alphapapa.net X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@alphapapa.net X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|adam@alphapapa.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Eight-Cooperative: 5b27e5ca7d428709_1681131228726_272696922 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1681131228726:818996749 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1681131228726 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.116.217.200 (trex/6.7.2); Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:53:48 +0000 Received: from [10.66.1.62] (unknown [91.193.232.98]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: adam@alphapapa.net) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Pw86h0HWtz3J for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 05:53:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alphapapa.net; s=dreamhost; t=1681131228; bh=7tDjRLON3qP2JvI9aLakw4DdmUsgxC6enGz9Dkn20yc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=baxdjdJXrsKI4jXo4W+QiqHcl1LBTfYbiGHp0/owGeicNoHswrkbG3+0LgGpkKdfl iq2ctryR9gWwNU9NYxGyJ6SrEQth0QrorLny2fTtXQDVW30JYqGjZiFaQaljOUIbKA Zw5AflfhJScpFYLA9QWcXA6+131++gs/pQ3Q+tMnI93/M3eXFw9DDqDgzqAwmuF06m U4OZ25YW53sCZBiLBQQfSAYt+LBoCAIlrU+hFDf2ECBigmT/HTjVWgf0DumYRuv8tg i878jbROjO9SOOX95AMaWO+HodA7NdCpMuIUqDJyrzKFqtL34qSACiroiF/tU3BuoZ K3dvTDlYVm1rg== Message-ID: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:53:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US From: Adam Porter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=23.83.212.4; envelope-from=adam@alphapapa.net; helo=antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Hi, Browsing the NEWS file for the first Emacs 29 pretest, I was glad to see the following new commands: +++ *** New command 'package-update'. This command allows you to upgrade packages without using 'M-x list-packages'. +++ *** New command 'package-update-all'. This command allows updating all packages without any queries. But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and 'package-upgrade-all'. In my experience in GNU/Linux systems and other software, the verb "update" is commonly used to refer to updating the list of available packages and their versions without changing the installed versions of packages (e.g. in Debian, "apt update"), while the verb "upgrade" is used to refer to actually installing newer versions of packages (e.g. "apt upgrade", or GNU Guix's "guix upgrade"). This terminology mirrors the inverse, i.e. "downgrading"; it's not said that packages are "downdated" or "backdated." Even the first NEWS entry seems to suggest this conflation, as it says, "This command allows you to upgrade packages...". If it's not too late to make this change, I think it would be worthwhile, as I think it would help prevent confusion for many users. OTOH, if Emacs 29 is released with "update packages" meaning "to upgrade packages to newer versions", we may be stuck with this confusing language for a long time. Thanks for your consideration, and for your work on Emacs. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Adam Porter , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier , Philip Kaludercic Cc: 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16811326604819 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2023 13:17:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plrOu-0001Ff-8G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:17:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plrOs-0001FS-Nk for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:17:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1plrOl-0004Lh-0I; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:17:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Md922Rk74744wMnsGlfc2bu1bIS+UR7sx3OGKxUgfOs=; b=Q+2xYv8RACba MrdsS9n+a14iTgMGtarGXtpciq2ZTOTcjrTCKYTqxJ0ODle8p6LBuKPdRfq9qXwAcBzSVxU2++bK6 J87FH04RJPHw2hh2bnvBEKm6UmrXB7WgrF5b0e3ruAABzITh4ToxHF4Fx8GXfB5gUlshmwzTOnblT X6kurPw4KdiE3OcubuB9/acg4ZxAxD6qqs8agEDGelHmg+lSTojY8t4ACLFP/jH5P/3aGPRKXX8A3 w2D/dVpdI0siR4m/cqxUKKwqSfkvXcP6dCxbrmCkaxuTrCYbTzuLdztjnlJrh1wuaGQVJS2te5Emj teeAiB4QglZriYSF+QJlaw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1plrOk-0005zB-6T; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:17:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 16:18:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> (message from Adam Porter on Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:53:52 -0500) References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:53:52 -0500 > From: Adam Porter > > +++ > *** New command 'package-update'. > This command allows you to upgrade packages without using 'M-x > list-packages'. > > +++ > *** New command 'package-update-all'. > This command allows updating all packages without any queries. > > But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and > 'package-upgrade-all'. These commands exist for the last year. I'm not sure how reasonable it is to rename them now, they are probably used in umpteen places outside Emacs already. Maybe if we leave behind an alias. And what if someone teaches these commands to downgrade as well, at some future time? Does anyone else have an opinion? Lars, Stefan, Philip? From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Adam Porter , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16811330845467 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:25:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2023 13:24:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plrVk-0001Q7-4h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:24:44 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:60471) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plrVi-0001Ps-4C for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 09:24:42 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69B7D240220 for <62750@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 15:24:36 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1681133076; bh=ZfuLDN27FazLhMLdVLNoikx2UxyTFCHoGm29LEoj7AE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=QKCcPL5evBJu3u0Oe1UQhrr52vzYHPcekrmWig1kZHprraM1Ed8GJVVj56MAHAyEg XB7xIgMPCZnd0n3Kx/fpM82Oy7aR6zrfpLDGdYc8KLcfCbnP/8BqRdzXcgBp42VhDD GcTGw49Q4BH0yD4JEWgxK3gjHndmWhCOlTuJCmDP3D3Ei27s98jaCHvWYMCjY2o5N2 Ef59WRO9Lb6YvgdtJ87XPIPz/O3XOH8leQ9heriVaft1i9Hnuqo+aKURvdnu+9jZqy HGQiMUWaWF2gCTGOLFN8W2C8G+yc3zO0gssxa7ZJnPFPCkmkurLX6ElFs2D7RgtlK6 FU3IMIR+6sLTQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Pw8pC2cLJz9rxD; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 15:24:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 10 Apr 2023 16:18:10 +0300") References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:25:04 +0000 Message-ID: <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 07:53:52 -0500 >> From: Adam Porter >> >> +++ >> *** New command 'package-update'. >> This command allows you to upgrade packages without using 'M-x >> list-packages'. >> >> +++ >> *** New command 'package-update-all'. >> This command allows updating all packages without any queries. >> >> But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and >> 'package-upgrade-all'. > > These commands exist for the last year. I'm not sure how reasonable > it is to rename them now, they are probably used in umpteen places > outside Emacs already. Maybe if we leave behind an alias. > > And what if someone teaches these commands to downgrade as well, at > some future time? > > Does anyone else have an opinion? Lars, Stefan, Philip? I don't think that "update" and "upgrade" have that clear of a semantic difference in practice to necessitate a renaming. E.g. Debian's "apt" distinguishes between updating (ie. synchronising the local repository state) and upgrading (fetching and installing newer versions of a package), while Fedora's dnf bundles both into one step and refers to it as updating. The term "update" probably has a minor edge over "upgrade" since it is a more popular term, that users are more likely to search for. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 14:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philip Kaludercic Cc: Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168113712323035 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 10 Apr 2023 14:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2023 14:32:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35615 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plsYt-0005zS-8d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:32:03 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:34819) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plsYr-0005yx-WC for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:32:02 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7AA661000C4; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6B2411000BE; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:31:55 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1681137115; bh=NiXV2OcFoieLTNJoEOX8IehtuTkY7zMRSL9y6VStSBc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=EOpcJsgSv68NOCTzmP9uWJnX+347us+EMLZqXR9XWb01Nh08pc3LmTpO6vBeoSZaa fCI8ktURimNAt9TMQlhDQEFCheY+yBseN52Xolpg/2dCrFEoGeAD/WPTavM4OaY35I PHkZjrnZQtmGbUrr0Ycdu8T6E8reXu72OrF+v6FvH5suLlmMgHbLBrwpSUgN6UYqeI hwIngPkpMI4ws/VJ7yk4/HD2fUW+FhubvLXdMNPPHyP/o8UWkCvzMFnnLt7sS9PIXc 2AmuTQwXnJ+qfEJvNHIVvIJokmkJtsF98gzKAAkpaqnRBhDosYscq7TRQdxZPxz1oC 5T7ybAqFCY8hA== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.217.176]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34AB3120D76; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Mon, 10 Apr 2023 13:25:04 +0000") Message-ID: References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:31:53 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.230 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I don't think that "update" and "upgrade" have that clear of a semantic > difference in practice to necessitate a renaming. I'd tend to agree. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Philip Kaludercic Cc: Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16812485058004 (code B ref 62750); Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2023 21:28:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmLXN-000252-9Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:28:25 -0400 Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.221]:45605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmLXM-00024q-0J for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:28:24 -0400 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96B05821E5; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:28:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1681248498; x=1681252098; bh=QJtUpQrVIZd1F/lgldwBnHK74qIqRANH7Bp GWwKS6QY=; b=IXyNW6whpw2zBz+b1uIYXtZ4vr6vEV+fdu1BFtrqnhspFQEaTmO N7XwDx5jtmJkKCYY/3sx+jlVV/j7WV9J4/ph9xBgZHPC2XKqSngNOCRiESYUxjkT rht8GNLx2lQQbmCRnrv/zC6AMzAz2kUxJVpmsOc+eHyUcciF3xg9NgkCsf/mL/bM pPqiwEaHhAKBw32UlPhNtu7PcDzQbTdrl5tqsq0HFbEbasY8/tJrtW4WnJqcViof PLiKEtFQ9iDwbckjOa4TEwPwra73C3ZoLg9X7DZdJ38QRI0O3b1HwejTxuMA+B4n phclx0eIcF25rImdU2Gii9RQRM2UDW+AmhQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1681248498; x=1681252098; bh=QJtUpQrVIZd1F/lgldwBnHK74qIqRANH7Bp GWwKS6QY=; b=i7Ng5VrIiexOQ/KjpDVOMos2mJsogrVq4NzEVqhaLJl/L3NV8C2 1eBmRPIkmhJuTd4NQe1I4vIwjWCDaQOb9uCRL7B3aGYrCslC8L4CinwVgK01OTBx yoSGooqFfyD7MNoh6hiP4N76AUIdOx1nopp3dxQnwMQDqDK9s6T3dtP8Yi6K9Prf lRCvjWIf7MYwMshf1iSWbJlvJUn8Qj3k/KaNOok2bF04aDPiemeYEHFU3Q0w7A+t Y0UEZygpN+5D19/Wm3QGe4EDAohqAUw3lhOgrIn+b2n/gt1+Ks29TweLzyAl+eZQ O5H2bWxWx0/sKW8cCVTXfkbxg1XOV5pQU1Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrvdekgedgudeivdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeigfetveehveevffehledtueekieeikeeufeegudfgfeeghfdulefgfeev ledvveenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe gumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 00:28:14 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) On 10/04/2023 17:31, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: >> I don't think that "update" and "upgrade" have that clear of a semantic >> difference in practice to necessitate a renaming. > I'd tend to agree. Here's an argument in favor of renaming: These commands use the term 'update'. But package-menu-mark-upgrades, which has been in package.el for years, uses the term 'upgrade' in its name and its docstring ("all upgradable packages", etc). There are a few auxiliary functions which also use that term, but this is the public-facing one. So now we have divergent terminology. Which implies that there is some difference between "upgrading" and "updating" in package.el, while there is none. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: Adam Porter , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philip Kaludercic , Eli Zaretskii , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16812492169102 (code B ref 62750); Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Apr 2023 21:40:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38426 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmLip-0002Mk-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:16 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:52967) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmLim-0002MW-HC for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:14 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3B0AB10012D; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E47F110011A; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1681249205; bh=WwJC9M/rG5AJov2neBtRz6oKk2lFnU9vE8y+USxn4cA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=fD3lBKEmrivNTEPqaoYJQO6JRKRu5CPMYZ6BAn0hLf0VPyUjIoP6d4sFTJDJ4/INX vG79g3FCqcruWnRt89ZNdkMzHBL6gcAUG5Hy5qfHekv1SfIe6zRuqOKNLLvtBsj6/r WyqXHQ52MZ9oozYpj5+87zLtd/MV0yu8+7Qk4ecA9aE5QYl1Fch8eldb2wD6iqnRU1 LGyhdUl56+Ym2xBYWm4nyAAjwKjbdhkt8Sjan/HWY7+vDxjteIvIqRfT3RBEztp62Q 7RIJUH+k2ImqsPcSGB6z9Ew0ugSHvaPCqCd/KmcviPAZGJ/42WTw7a96aDhJy+eVtG Q2VP3oN1hky4g== Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D26DA120263; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 12 Apr 2023 00:28:14 +0300") Message-ID: References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:05 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.041 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >>> I don't think that "update" and "upgrade" have that clear of a semantic >>> difference in practice to necessitate a renaming. >> I'd tend to agree. > > Here's an argument in favor of renaming: > > These commands use the term 'update'. But package-menu-mark-upgrades, which > has been in package.el for years, uses the term 'upgrade' in its name and > its docstring ("all upgradable packages", etc). There are a few auxiliary > functions which also use that term, but this is the public-facing one. > > So now we have divergent terminology. Which implies that there is some > difference between "upgrading" and "updating" in package.el, while there > is none. Good point. It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibility aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29), then I'd be in favor. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Adam Porter , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16812854738378 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:45:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 07:44:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmV9c-0002B2-Mn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 03:44:33 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:39767) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmV9Y-0002AG-F3 for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 03:44:29 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E90002401C0 for <62750@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:44:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1681285463; bh=iYx36YOTdOX1XU6vW6ViCF2sJb/2G73oNbOKDf38Ii4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Autocrypt:From; b=WYTMIgWoKLHbEZwtXca3uiYA7zUxZGr0sgVKBxcAgLSQgcLJsB0kTrMz/efqE2bzi sYQYuy6f7ggE+rki8s250h4Z/5kh6pwzLYfZE8qe5yGUuYCsbK8aaleN/nIe7TT+TF KorkwmSA8XIr2Q9zx0S3ZvCzIMAMgzgkYJhcQ5fOJ+fzOsOOpAGGMlrK+EHaOTBiDx hAugj3kVmwV7Lv+FuLbXoVqzYoPHwHAOYmp38zT0enaBgYHMw1CcwXBt4gkHVrmzk2 dDKPMaYfB41SypRWzN1X2hb9SfrN2DOHODs1xv9B2t7ZHe627STOQFVnOke9Ioogfx cAsdo56RG8RFw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PxF8j5fdbz6twN; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:44:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:40:05 -0400") Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:35:48 +0000 Message-ID: <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: >>>> I don't think that "update" and "upgrade" have that clear of a semantic >>>> difference in practice to necessitate a renaming. >>> I'd tend to agree. >> >> Here's an argument in favor of renaming: >> >> These commands use the term 'update'. But package-menu-mark-upgrades, which >> has been in package.el for years, uses the term 'upgrade' in its name and >> its docstring ("all upgradable packages", etc). There are a few auxiliary >> functions which also use that term, but this is the public-facing one. I have to admit that I didn't even notice that the command used the word upgrade... Probably because I only invoked it using the binding, though I do get the point with it being inconsistent. >> So now we have divergent terminology. Which implies that there is some >> difference between "upgrading" and "updating" in package.el, while there >> is none. > > Good point. > > It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibility > aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29), > then I'd be in favor. What are compatibility aliases? I must have missed something? > Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philip Kaludercic Cc: Adam Porter , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16813057332031 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 13:22:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaQP-0000Wh-IA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:13 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:15000) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaQN-0000WS-CS for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:11 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D883D8091E; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9B84D80820; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:04 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1681305724; bh=w6jd9XJDb7bDK85EHJ9CsB1sR28+FF4QZMDpPkFTCVQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=NKxEyJvnaq/nll91Ck+Tf+ZdnmQUyGc50AjrW16v7icN3RpOGpDq50fOvvJuWbXh6 6v7YwOi23DjrZ23hti+6Yte6oeiUAz/IsP6qQGD1Rit0//LvwjuLpb5Y2OvpTs87O6 94+enCo6F2ZbcbBppZIEojWCpSMukyCTrMzIg11VmZBpOXsAozOb6tI2T5m+83q9oJ 18yogoOurMsGABK7UMi8soPHvBFhA5O+59S8iYHZikEWNCpclfi+arkmziclMyKu5y MUlYeqVeH7TiyWdR3RAu+chyxsDM9qvtMf7zksNzrcVHeKCycmdheERIDIICVsUC+9 q3iN12bYG+YRQ== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.217.176]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 654FB1202E4; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:35:48 +0000") Message-ID: References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:03 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.045 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibility >> aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29), >> then I'd be in favor. > > What are compatibility aliases? I must have missed something? I thought we'd rename `package-update` to `package-upgrade` by adding the new name and marking the old name as an obsolete alias (a "compatibility alias"). I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, so we don't need such a compatibility alias. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, dmitry@gutov.dev, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16813061042572 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 13:28:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaWO-0000fQ-8V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:28:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaWM-0000fA-4Q for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:28:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaWF-0002W5-Sm; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:28:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ReNfHDkq0TSZOKy6lPoUFf4KjYGElB7GAGo8APQkitw=; b=TeGPl/hHZR2+ Gg2y/7T4wLBYO96QXHM+9wCTUl6sifO27ocZyT0SodP+pGzvVfAy1sKWaShR4wVWqxxJCvh7/vsNi YJNtYZXs+23uEumKJcuneH5iQrxymEQ1NvidEQRpPKQmKJUL2Kix3zeMgNgoIf0T13Y0KC+y9TzxR JMlCfGmvm6+0d/7nbcI6YNzS+SPsdo+IIffE8AfYw9j7L9PEmW9b15+cqbBhlZY1BiYw+Nu9eJIAI il5856HDXy1W5brpzOd1X886g4xOE4ZwRAfdFQZAYw2e/pNvIuh2Vr9ZaCJ1IIn4SJzrXdHDDWlC/ lm1F2tmPKKFWJjm2Flb7GA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pmaWC-0005Kc-1D; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:28:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:28:56 +0300 Message-Id: <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:03 -0400) References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Adam Porter , Eli > Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , > 62750@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:03 -0400 > > >> It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibility > >> aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29), > >> then I'd be in favor. > > > > What are compatibility aliases? I must have missed something? > > I thought we'd rename `package-update` to `package-upgrade` by adding > the new name and marking the old name as an obsolete alias (a > "compatibility alias"). > > I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, so > we don't need such a compatibility alias. Even though these commands were available under those names for the last year or so? From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:35:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, dmitry@gutov.dev, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16813064773213 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:35:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 13:34:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39375 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmacO-0000pl-RQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:37 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:6456) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmacN-0000pU-4m for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:35 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9801810011B; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E99721000E7; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:27 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1681306468; bh=tse5iD2ed5m7WWylbR0VgUYXx7zxbuvEZJZZTiNaTmk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Cs4PQpwQKLG+rnaYUhkHjlYCnMz9lHh2FHhJvqhyhSGNE505lRNm9HYvgxrH4DKqQ LsJA8vWpV6yqQYrNhA2CehCf9edSLNn8HbkqkN3lh7Ukbw7wTDfXIdQMNm0LpHLwBw UcYm4A3St8hN748xGTmXve1eQFvSjQIr2BySNGko5g3YRx8Ox/Pwcfqwsr3NuQ/STG tR8t2tae+iPdj2f944APUQHNPKHng7HSszN99MN5h88DxzTzlylAsiY7SWSempVWtL nwRm+DqS0OpqKo/yhdFtCnPnzEPIEauBTmFyrSfh2ZLJ8ehb2ddsMXHVm8nAqf5vW4 EIkKzbozLYdXA== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.217.176]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AA5571202EE; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:28:56 +0300") Message-ID: References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:34:27 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.228 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, so >> we don't need such a compatibility alias. > Even though these commands were available under those names for the > last year or so? Well, that's for you to judge :-) Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Adam Porter , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16813070624212 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:45:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 13:44:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39389 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmalq-00015s-5h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:44:22 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:50995) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmalo-00015e-Sr for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:44:21 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 596C52403FD for <62750@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:44:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1681307055; bh=c/P6nF4lyjz3yC0qSDfYUtpK+dwB++3PBFk8c7h9SBM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=koGVL15ErZ+1go8MIbUM9A0OF+vGX9FlEW+oYLvjGwomD7CRPwEXKgYS76IZZHC4P Qs0BxgE0jOKeHUNHz6tuNrJqYDd+hu/nfdkgEGkjVLSEbJQjmycGe+ud0Prq3W9K/L 3ody4TDSOKQX/NimtxZ8yTwfdMnQQ+g+SkxdPUesfS7B74by0pmSzHXF6OVHUwGII+ KLfGGEflxKFaOxq4CsfzLKxE9UGE2FrSJu1I9NmP9d6Y+sctj4iC6Kow112nZoBrVs DTI3snMMxVBu6B6gQVmR4q0mjGySuogDeRfJ4G1NgjXLEYX4xHfrcRd/pb6ZJWdSdp M4ZwD92YlcOuA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PxP7y21zzz6twj; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:44:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 12 Apr 2023 09:22:03 -0400") References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:44:43 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1mxrz90.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: >>> It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibility >>> aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29), >>> then I'd be in favor. >> >> What are compatibility aliases? I must have missed something? > > I thought we'd rename `package-update` to `package-upgrade` by adding > the new name and marking the old name as an obsolete alias (a > "compatibility alias"). > > I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, so > we don't need such a compatibility alias. If this were to happen, I'd like to also be able to rename the analogous package-vc commands to upgrade as well. (On a related topic I have been wondering if package-update should handle package-vc packages at all, or if that was a mistake?) From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philip Kaludercic Cc: 62750@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Monnier , Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168131023111622 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Apr 2023 14:37:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmbax-00031O-1Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 10:37:11 -0400 Received: from mail-oa1-f48.google.com ([209.85.160.48]:44748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pmbau-00031A-O9 for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 10:37:10 -0400 Received: by mail-oa1-f48.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1842f69fe1fso13873869fac.11 for <62750@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:37:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681310223; x=1683902223; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=67jWtl/MZHWG+S16H8szE0s8PJaEGdDY6/js9F0qF0U=; b=iqECsxYy+pE3J7cjEG1Q0Nq02dkD4BmevDoexjkZcXYfgAi4yF7rzbRmmC0CICJMft 3wqOpJiGTdmBaRkmL/RDZ/LjQdQfmRR+/WrBQWvHeHEs5EJ8DYXIQqOXbKiJyURsrfgK B+MbiWUqYhu6653ue2MupDv5wT7Hu1u0NTQDqiNaAdHIy1ZNQmWL7fBUUZ/QtzZXcIEm UlZyDymHW3ZO7t9w8ya9/jzYeyeDhkkYUX3WOO3oPDYO4w2AJ/Ts1CO5lhz/qx/S9qkS zLHqrtca5iQGcrOr5HVgGLKM8xhfeS0n732oic8rSRUU/SeBPAVpXf+Ok6MqfzHEhoIV NWgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1681310223; x=1683902223; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=67jWtl/MZHWG+S16H8szE0s8PJaEGdDY6/js9F0qF0U=; b=FGMOBUcuiQB9rlGw8LYr8r+z1mlIDmKFYLJM5LMJyy9Ony4YY+AQLW79fuM5e4T3uG FCew7OqEwFyCpX/a3MXRy3cnY+orEygXirssnlFiaspPqc9yQF2kyHnVrfLfs8Vyt+uy cydsDqL421CX3QfFWH24wmxh2LzGF6qlf7WYLzBF+svXlgiYRhbvbtOVFjJzHeOlJyeC dgbvHtLoZLdenpxVIk53Z9qdJFxAxz5AGJlCvkTaX1wG21+0YlT90/2aD5Faj/kGKIW7 rY3B7mx0J2uUsChS3uxawoh25/UL1uzsVFIwwjtnqnpjy+68Igy3IYugw2NoUZrOc7Kl 6z3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9figglfrQ8mRvrtPjAsAgSywruMoAeaFjxeAfoABUIq38EHxlNm UXCp9f32WUwuayQp/tvMIpF7u3E0ipvAGIoeAqU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ad56Wjx7aFROlPq9Rt33zKfmWiSRSkHmECHiC1iyMhidnNWnRUPUQ5ozA+wVQNXob1U/jkVy9kSYyE65vl1VU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:e24c:b0:184:2097:e64f with SMTP id d12-20020a056870e24c00b001842097e64fmr3028808oac.5.1681310223011; Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:37:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1mxrz90.fsf@posteo.net> In-Reply-To: <87y1mxrz90.fsf@posteo.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 15:36:52 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 2:45=E2=80=AFPM Philip Kaludercic wrote: > > Stefan Monnier writes: > > >>> It's annoyingly late to rename, but if we rename without compatibilit= y > >>> aliases (which seems to be an option since these are new in Emacs-29)= , > >>> then I'd be in favor. > >> > >> What are compatibility aliases? I must have missed something? > > > > I thought we'd rename `package-update` to `package-upgrade` by adding > > the new name and marking the old name as an obsolete alias (a > > "compatibility alias"). > > > > I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, s= o > > we don't need such a compatibility alias. > > If this were to happen, I'd like to also be able to rename the analogous > package-vc commands to upgrade as well. > > (On a related topic I have been wondering if package-update should > handle package-vc packages at all, or if that was a mistake?) Also, in the off-chance that no-one has noticed yet the new package-update-*commands and the older package-menu*upgrade commands use entirely different logic to discover what _can_ be updated. Only by sheer skill or luck will this logic match exactly. Jo=C3=A3o From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 01:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16815224629835 (code B ref 62750); Sat, 15 Apr 2023 01:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2023 01:34:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47969 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnUo1-0002YZ-Nb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:34:21 -0400 Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.221]:55633) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnUo0-0002YM-2s for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:34:20 -0400 Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC0582428; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:34:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1681522455; x=1681526055; bh=AHSOuPsNZ1+x/tceat7UKn/CNJqqyagCE7X KPBz6vXg=; b=ExeWq5+gvrROQObvfjEBL9tVn/xyp8VAcCuLICH3GDR9vm3DhHb Kcf7oxYt/M842JKwHV4GGgQ69ZMT0wl3kqYrp8Pr7rBScG/jmT9gpAt2/hBMhAX9 fUiXNlO3CK86pOaiqylWXzSUF83RW8wDqM5mhFw5EqfC/ysgKoPSCB47lnUsRjcB K61AUOjlJMOgyaUjHiPo4sxpROqI0P72jgRHvO3yYE3kKkwxd4RvQzxKVJZYg4Tf 63mGe+VGmzdJLLHjJaaX2Ilp6Kg1NyJeaBoZ2hEZR9N3JMJaU1aHBJEhNEK+DMrK au70d22gNDhEhhTQvuRQWvPaGloy6tgXsow== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1681522455; x=1681526055; bh=AHSOuPsNZ1+x/tceat7UKn/CNJqqyagCE7X KPBz6vXg=; b=eAG/1ZKhm6WYQrAJ5kkGlGj0hiAAYo4WtL5wtso9tUh2JIC+n0a LcSQRnT7KXzEbRcZGccP9E0JeX2YBQ3CKfouL4FJ4z3YlbobEGdqNxvC1kOymS99 1Dv/lDTlnQxjsNKYL8Xb+ZlMFuGXrZxLdMdjliieVkQ978demrcEMoxzg7XPim1p hfE1XTimti8wQiA4VFSbTfClMQETdLDNir+ejDGo6M4wq/FJNrM995uNOooV8JGA heib7slyZpc9Ih1ReiiugTM2fniv9mxLzLva47X8QlNJxfY45Z6JRARl7vntNWJW t/ubOL8Jeetf0MHojzSFOCF67e3lR1L9Kmg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrvdeluddggeelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtkeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhephfffheeljeffgeffueeghfekkedtfffgheejvdegjeettdduheeufffggfef jeehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 04:34:11 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On 12/04/2023 16:34, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release yet, so >>> we don't need such a compatibility alias. >> Even though these commands were available under those names for the >> last year or so? > Well, that's for you to judge 😄 Since they're not very likely to be used in Lisp code, I'd say it's unlikely to be a problem. Alternatively, we'll probably get around to fixing this inconsistency sometime after this release, and then carry the compatibility aliases for a number of years. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Jim Porter Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Monnier , Philip Kaludercic Cc: Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168194303729237 (code B ref 62750); Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Apr 2023 22:23:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36056 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ppGDV-0007bV-9g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:23:57 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f177.google.com ([209.85.215.177]:44477) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ppGDP-0007bD-4y for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:23:55 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f177.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-517bdc9e81dso191909a12.1 for <62750@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:23:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681943025; x=1684535025; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=K54PFI2fMOapCSeF8F5BNMu9prO4FYDBVfAGQpPvCqA=; b=rObgmb7lpUkcbM3qMf2JMtQQmc9f8gwf1XzH1k+mU+nQEwrVLKy6b8qQaUBT//P50W o1bDqEde8BTKQx8p3lFZCcMZjmN9kxL0hi3fO+TrwOvkSZGCAHCE+WKwrrK5nc45GIIg szf5AvCDig4gcyvvwEDq5+6M1ro6ZJaQFfVxTM9MNbSwDUQLFHIXNP+hJkz1J7GDrGsD bq6FSeTm4olRhnNapd0Oz6gKuH1OtTj86LGNcawbGSR7XrGuYKrs1AIqX4FbDigRJ0uV dEj7zSQHpJUZyGfbsX0Idc093lCVjDU7jQurId4WngsIWI2x3iVKFkh9hxVEYdvqTC1R 3tXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681943025; x=1684535025; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=K54PFI2fMOapCSeF8F5BNMu9prO4FYDBVfAGQpPvCqA=; b=ey7Jm0rLc8sc5HafZnR8emVPa213VJY3ydY6nZw8T9FVcU5z6nnT8NFHkv4k5C67GE AuyxWsklpKBXppkPkeEIRN/8Qq432XnCW6pvsSCmsMXh5nhoaDRi6VlQUrVfqv2NdV3Z XkQClc2AkkY6E5niiNQc4RGwY2TfSY+3HrfLQnDM2odV0CLxU6Q/jZlro9PpUqyuFss/ 2Y/luZMxwc+zzmUnP3+sNQ4VQppbQMUsDhHQ2IopI1tbOz+Wlx6t+HtkOZqfam5IJg2e vBJ9pb0cvnjvGFanOAMSE+49Wls4anzBYSbcuJcodXgEi8Xl9P3YqflS/52FvLkON+gw kk9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dV9U7dUzOCbWvrPWEt2x66j5R/wxkHcaXr7jLPYoXmYYW23Gqn iZ2iFs0wFGQSWlbQcEzWYSQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bvWO2dmK9Fc6bwg+GH3iwTqycFs8zIOjsiO6BIZ7zFdu8nLmMIbimRWiuv+YBjxsdFsilGng== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:f182:b0:247:9422:62b4 with SMTP id bv2-20020a17090af18200b00247942262b4mr4230402pjb.14.1681943025089; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id mh16-20020a17090b4ad000b0024781f5e8besm1881559pjb.26.2023.04.19.15.23.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:23:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> From: Jim Porter In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 4/11/2023 2:28 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > These commands use the term 'update'. But package-menu-mark-upgrades, > which has been in package.el for years, uses the term 'upgrade' in its > name and its docstring ("all upgradable packages", etc). There are a few > auxiliary functions which also use that term, but this is the > public-facing one. Given this, I think we should rename the functions. If that means adding obsolete aliases to be polite, that's ok too. (Personally, I don't think it's necessary, since users tracking the development builds should expect some minor breakage, but it doesn't hurt to have aliases.) From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 23:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168229121719080 (code B ref 62750); Sun, 23 Apr 2023 23:07:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Apr 2023 23:06:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47103 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqinI-0004xg-St for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:06:57 -0400 Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.221]:42949) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqinG-0004xN-N1 for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:06:55 -0400 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C7F582266; Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:06:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1682291209; x=1682294809; bh=lH eA/Nlq/YaM/auT56UIYxSDBgvuIh8tA2vvLEjZ/ts=; b=ST8ZrZNlOYYtyA9Z8y jvvpFevoorO1R4FddEjM7gD3ukd5f2zBoA+4hzBT8Nc39OHpKbHph0LzGAQODTfe QCGaAmbhvm9dfPHjwxXydsfriL1+xXxTd0NUx5+ADTRck5OMAioPQ3EaIeXt72zF pFaBj9ZKgQY4ipuy6juIv5cVrS2/ahoV8bbZ5mfgWQJi1vgTEdS5/9/jNwKdkWWg u+YU390/WCAf81cpq7FSMGpuNSppyCzAddn8tcrn53PAH4nzJa2s0Z5/4vxPkG1M hJO74sKOLrsRzeUytG0p/uWIURGLNl9duuXCNA4oop9NDJgvxrvtSgR+4n2pinga 92ow== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1682291209; x=1682294809; bh=lHeA/Nlq/YaM/ auT56UIYxSDBgvuIh8tA2vvLEjZ/ts=; b=Ctzd7kWxLU9KVliLsjDowM5dsBTiu uGZhMSzzQaQZmpT3H1M1zxEAtx18T2NGsHhl78jbhSOzIc9h5+vLmFeFAtDJ98y9 rDojDWkZ0n9PYL9mlgii/0iWR+5xiPvAGFdLuGp4LgXlriuwcWG7yg0Tk15qOz+g EP0jIdS3nZ07Dccni1mN0osBQmi5rrVIf+U7W678OKm1LKlneuhwH0mB2lR0fMfz ZYiubBpicW2qTBjGh5spb2W6S8CYZDM92jT6rhsylpczpMkSi71TXdUXtIhgHNiS 5M4cgoeWV+L/syrwZj+/EAq/spDUvEVmbPsxjMKf+r1gutt5lAMuTFRWg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfedtledgudekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptgfkffggfgfuhffvvehfjgesmhdtreertdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeeiheegkeetgffghefhgeeiveeuudegvdeuteffhfettdelleehkeffledvuddt leenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------Yu2QB9bjll9000lxj9p0OPop" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 02:06:45 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> In-Reply-To: <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------Yu2QB9bjll9000lxj9p0OPop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 15/04/2023 04:34, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 12/04/2023 16:34, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> I hadn't realized that `package-update` hasn't been in a release >>>> yet, so >>>> we don't need such a compatibility alias. >>> Even though these commands were available under those names for the >>> last year or so? >> Well, that's for you to judge 😄 > > Since they're not very likely to be used in Lisp code, I'd say it's > unlikely to be a problem. > > Alternatively, we'll probably get around to fixing this inconsistency > sometime after this release, and then carry the compatibility aliases > for a number of years. Here's a couple of other existing functions: package--update-selected-packages package--update-downloads-in-progress Neither of these relate to upgrading packages. Although the former could be easy to mistake for that now. In all older functions, the term "update" (in comments and variable names) refers to updating the value of some variable, not packages. By analogy, 'M-x package-update-all' might be easy enough to mistake for updating the list of packages available for installation, for example. Here's a patch that does the rename. Also including package-vc-update* that Philip mentioned. --------------Yu2QB9bjll9000lxj9p0OPop Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Rename-all-functions-called-package-update-to-packag.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Rename-all-functions-called-package-update-to-packag.pa"; filename*1="tch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSAxM2ZmMWYyNmRhMDdmNzMwMmU4OTg2MzhlZjRhNTM0MWMyOTEzOTQ4IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBEbWl0cnkgR3V0b3YgPGRtaXRyeUBndXRvdi5kZXY+ CkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMjQgQXByIDIwMjMgMDI6MDA6NTQgKzAzMDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENI XSBSZW5hbWUgYWxsIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBjYWxsZWQgcGFja2FnZS0qLXVwZGF0ZS0qIHRvCiBw YWNrYWdlLSotdXBncmFkZS0qCgoqIGxpc3AvZW1hY3MtbGlzcC9wYWNrYWdlLXZjLmVsIChw YWNrYWdlLXZjLXVwZ3JhZGUtYWxsKToKUmVuYW1lIGZyb20gJ3BhY2thZ2UtdmMtdXBkYXRl LWFsbCcuCihwYWNrYWdlLXZjLXVwZ3JhZGUpOiBSZW5hbWUgZnJvbSAncGFja2FnZS12Yy11 cGRhdGUnLgoKKiBsaXNwL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AvcGFja2FnZS5lbCAocGFja2FnZS11cGdyYWRl 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YmxlIDEpCisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAiT25lIHBhY2thZ2UgdG8gdXBn cmFkZS4gIERvIGl0PyAiCisgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgKGZvcm1hdCAiJXMg cGFja2FnZXMgdG8gdXBncmFkZS4gIERvIGl0PyIKKyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIChsZW5ndGggdXBncmFkZWFibGUpKSkpKSkKKyAgICAgICAgKHVzZXItZXJy b3IgIlVwZ3JhZGUgYWJvcnRlZCIpKQorICAgICAgKG1hcGMgIydwYWNrYWdlLXVwZ3JhZGUg dXBncmFkZWFibGUpKSkpCiAKIChkZWZ1biBwYWNrYWdlLS1kZXBlbmRlbmNpZXMgKHBrZykK ICAgIlJldHVybiBhIGxpc3Qgb2YgYWxsIGRlcGVuZGVuY2llcyBQS0cgaGFzLgotLSAKMi4z Ny4yCgo= --------------Yu2QB9bjll9000lxj9p0OPop-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 12:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16823377474467 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 12:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2023 12:02:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47738 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqutm-00019z-W5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:02:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqutl-00019m-7v for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:02:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pqutf-0006U1-Iq; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:02:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; 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<875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 02:06:45 +0300 > From: Dmitry Gutov > Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, > 62750@debbugs.gnu.org > > Here's a couple of other existing functions: > > package--update-selected-packages > package--update-downloads-in-progress > > Neither of these relate to upgrading packages. Although the former could > be easy to mistake for that now. > > In all older functions, the term "update" (in comments and variable > names) refers to updating the value of some variable, not packages. > > By analogy, 'M-x package-update-all' might be easy enough to mistake for > updating the list of packages available for installation, for example. > > Here's a patch that does the rename. Also including package-vc-update* > that Philip mentioned. Any objections to these renames, anyone? Does anyone think we need to leave behind aliases for the old names? Me, I have only one potential issue: since "update" just means "delete the installed version, then install another version", it could be easily made to downgrade, not just to upgrade. So if we ever would like to allow downgrading, the new names will get in the way. But if this is not an issue we should be bothered about, it's fine by me. Thanks. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Adam Porter Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov Cc: larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168235731113624 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2023 17:28:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50260 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqzzK-0003Xg-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 13:28:31 -0400 Received: from hamster.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.80]:2658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pqzzI-0003XU-H9 for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Adam Porter In-Reply-To: <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On 4/24/23 07:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Me, I have only one potential issue: since "update" just means "delete > the installed version, then install another version", it could be > easily made to downgrade, not just to upgrade. So if we ever would > like to allow downgrading, the new names will get in the way. But if > this is not an issue we should be bothered about, it's fine by me. IMHO, a command to downgrade ought to be a separate command with a different name--not only to reduce confusion, but because downgrading packages is an operation that is more likely to require manual user intervention, such as recompiling other packages that depend on the downgraded package (e.g. if struct or macro definitions change, or symbols disappear). It's easy enough to cause that problem when upgrading, and much more likely when downgrading, to the extent that it's arguable that a command to downgrade shouldn't exist, because users who want to downgrade a package should be prepared to deal with the potential fallout. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Adam Porter , Eli Zaretskii Cc: larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168236251023181 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2023 18:55:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1LB-00061n-Ol for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:55:10 -0400 Received: from wnew4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.18]:48731) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1LA-00060z-Cp for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Mon, 24 Apr 2023 14:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 21:54:58 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On 24/04/2023 20:28, Adam Porter wrote: > On 4/24/23 07:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Me, I have only one potential issue: since "update" just means "delete >> the installed version, then install another version", it could be >> easily made to downgrade, not just to upgrade.  So if we ever would >> like to allow downgrading, the new names will get in the way.  But if >> this is not an issue we should be bothered about, it's fine by me. > > IMHO, a command to downgrade ought to be a separate command with a > different name--not only to reduce confusion, but because downgrading > packages is an operation that is more likely to require manual user > intervention, such as recompiling other packages that depend on the > downgraded package (e.g. if struct or macro definitions change, or > symbols disappear). That might also be the case when upgrading a package that some others depend on (newer version could also have macros deleted or renamed). Either way, though, we could make it a separate command. Or even augment the current one: (package-upgrade 'name "some-older-version") has a similar feel to (forward-char -1), not exactly unfamiliar to us. Would "update" be a more proper term to cover both upgrading and downgrading? I'm not sure about that. Aside from "downgrade", I would probably say "revert" or "install an older version". E.g. when using apt-get, the relevant subcommand would be "install". > It's easy enough to cause that problem when upgrading, and much more > likely when downgrading, to the extent that it's arguable that a command > to downgrade shouldn't exist, because users who want to downgrade a > package should be prepared to deal with the potential fallout. Or that. We don't keep older versions around in ELPA anyway, so for now the question is moot. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 19:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168236361625126 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 19:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2023 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1d2-0006XA-Bg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:13:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48944) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1d0-0006Ww-6L for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:13:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1cu-0008V4-Fm; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:13:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Oswdx78zAGSbw65bTVrI5AmvpResHG1ziaiIOE+HrX4=; b=qSOMrXNVG7wuop4Osxge NagH5ojhzQIXghkp+yeRZDAsVCqJOr/iTCd2N5d9CygVDe383y95rwqoBAe5r5ML6CW5gKSw9Asbs keppdMrRU+XtQPqKfwfjeQrwsYpE9cYlipQrmd1CZzRdysaEswT/sTqBHKApHh88dWtnT+B6IigWA TaVTzFcGEy0V6Y2iz007h7zYQKMf7nXAUruCHmt6ETX/YhQqRrmfQ+PUozQA50ewUzbXaepLFiRjE ZrXntxedOpkmtypqVOoJdqyWgNy7IoSsjQHe05NrSZ3gbjUQASllFhC0r6XQqp/hWFCTsdxx6isoF 6j+TR6JqrlDA+Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pr1ct-0005zg-Vp; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:13:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:13:51 +0300 Message-Id: <83ttx5w0sw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Mon, 24 Apr 2023 21:54:58 +0300) References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 21:54:58 +0300 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, philipk@posteo.net, larsi@gnus.org, > 62750@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 24/04/2023 20:28, Adam Porter wrote: > > On 4/24/23 07:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >> Me, I have only one potential issue: since "update" just means "delete > >> the installed version, then install another version", it could be > >> easily made to downgrade, not just to upgrade.  So if we ever would > >> like to allow downgrading, the new names will get in the way.  But if > >> this is not an issue we should be bothered about, it's fine by me. > > > > IMHO, a command to downgrade ought to be a separate command with a > > different name--not only to reduce confusion, but because downgrading > > packages is an operation that is more likely to require manual user > > intervention, such as recompiling other packages that depend on the > > downgraded package (e.g. if struct or macro definitions change, or > > symbols disappear). > > That might also be the case when upgrading a package that some others > depend on (newer version could also have macros deleted or renamed). > > Either way, though, we could make it a separate command. A separate command that does the same, or almost the same, as package-upgrade? That's uneconomical, let alone elegant. > Or even augment the current one: (package-upgrade 'name > "some-older-version") has a similar feel to (forward-char -1), not > exactly unfamiliar to us. We are talking about invoking commands, not about Lisp programs. How many times did you do "C-- C-f" instead of "C-b"? > We don't keep older versions around in ELPA anyway, so for now the > question is moot. I was trying to raise a possible future issue. We all know that command names, once they gain enough tenure, cannot be easily changed. So this is the time to think about future issues; we won't have another chance. It's exactly why we should consider what is today a "moot point" but could be a real one later. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 19:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: adam@alphapapa.net, larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168236510927511 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 19:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2023 19:38:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr217-00079e-5G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:29 -0400 Received: from wnew4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.18]:48093) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pr215-00079N-Vz for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:28 -0400 Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailnew.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03422B066F8; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1682365100; x=1682368700; bh=nfRtL1yuFe2umjbTJcdapTgCp936IieLmlF /PjjC6jI=; b=nKUx9kPlvYINngfsorv50gJ0O4yffxtYZX6KYnDbWdNnqQ0CwFN RWNoCwddep1Li/cuoXbfVMkC4xBhs2zrYvt4nrydFFhwk5BhlOR7LoH4FRHTEnki OVFPO9Cnjkg/j+wBvsbFpeqEhyw8HMW56aP7jfs1spMpaGAOk+ZkWuyPOEnUEYo0 Gns+ABE2hDR1ZqvJMyzCP65Qm7KNBE6cDT3g+dEuM0hbCIiir5ocYtWKdW0npSDW 8K39PaRVHjZzuH7zlJPL7Sp8uJhVPG+D0yVU1L3nhd2DZ+ZtUC158/SvXBLeE1zh hF2t5Zy9nrkvRbCuxYjpKsex8gdhrYR4/NA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1682365100; x=1682368700; bh=nfRtL1yuFe2umjbTJcdapTgCp936IieLmlF /PjjC6jI=; b=d/sM9lAvOjCjNSOcmNuQodGfnzwz08HFF27vZyfy8lptOPbehGE ig4VGRLpHLULSgkFbtVy6pxctWNrODojtcg1y2miFR27O2fP3C6h/KIZzGFzC8P9 KqG7tR7R1n9VAsNVsDJnK/cqVgaUDHtleeLwCRFIrRF3EvrvXWsW7W6LjTKYgH1U 1O3wCVgvKTEXnG0ztJdSsCJHdIHLAXyQmRav2Ud6NubaQoozdNps6d2ZPhet+QLY vxAE9SIcTAqlMtW0FbnWTGCykiLVTyN8gdIsbljVk7Ud/pihNrMjKlXgLU/OIwoL 2iJWkXLtaDFmluWskhOJOzV7TM1WUxG0zlA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfedutddgudeflecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhm ihhtrhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeigfetveehveevffehledtueekieeikeeufeegudfgfeeghfdulefgfeev ledvveenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe gumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 22:38:16 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttx5w0sw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: <83ttx5w0sw.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On 24/04/2023 22:13, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Or even augment the current one: (package-upgrade 'name >> "some-older-version") has a similar feel to (forward-char -1), not >> exactly unfamiliar to us. > We are talking about invoking commands, not about Lisp programs. How > many times did you do "C-- C-f" instead of "C-b"? Considering one would have to enter a specific version to downgrade to (right?), they'd have to do it interactively. Unlike in the case of upgrading, where we almost always want the most recent version. If one had to explicitly input the number of chars to go forward anyway, we would have little use for backward-char. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Adam Porter Subject: bug#62750: closed (Re: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade') Message-ID: References: <3ba65fda-56db-5dca-a1ae-a9a951c5e545@gutov.dev> <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 62750 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2023 23:28:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1682638082-11175-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1682638082-11175-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should = be called '*-upgrade' which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 62750@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 62750: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D62750 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1682638082-11175-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 62750-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Apr 2023 23:27:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60001 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1psB1X-0002te-RJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:27:40 -0400 Received: from wnew4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.18]:45409) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1psB1U-0002tQ-FD for 62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:27:39 -0400 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailnew.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430602B06954; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:27:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1682638049; x=1682641649; bh=OyIpmT+vEp7RQ1zteQ9iYeVPtCNDd/sAE22 Pjz+AAeA=; b=dbgUmBXsykGAiMs1QoVfhPvFU8aWqocF2YSeo9Tq1v2kjDs4Peq EDTIaG9XAriKmwHk9LcPxx02KWGe6FCanCF5dekEPqmHSs1JptXC50PkS7HS0X94 jtEI89GDYEITb2j2qfRVL3nrlyyXbVgKzG6V6qihhPYOSyTXbL63afkEZrUcDREN WrPJvHmbzlvKk59N+FvIlEnJZ+sQITvCbu6bW71U/tJQxHzon91ZFOnPhL/Qf44Q XauRNPsfLJUWqrCxoa5AI0+HJRi/fxuyH+oUnj8/TuKPNX4keiNeTkRjP6n0uU1g xqCpCAiwodlI9PGxwWBOxqDm15sKggJ245w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1682638049; x= 1682641649; bh=OyIpmT+vEp7RQ1zteQ9iYeVPtCNDd/sAE22Pjz+AAeA=; b=K 3O8kcTuMQRJI6+rvQWlFjsd64Z7efb4pa8TrNkqNTfzwJ0tgwo4PjQqGibXgl5s3 TnrkqEdZ/SOshnJVHPcilKC2exlc1JDVgUwiEzp+p3kfzU16mxIIbBJc9hS2NrDt 7dopxZxTmV2cd9oe8bNDXI+cgG/hQ//mRmWljbdk8Z6vt/j/6PKbydXyXlFowx4I mmEENSVqkdAekf/ZH0vBqtG7iRiy5VRUu3t220EKAyrd2Fg6c+pnez45SwwVsYHc xZI6QzUHeW2DGe7w7SipUrrO5bFdv8vVlpQISzOf+FO9jH4FnSfHPOyVHnQSmDS9 rLISp5lgIR1IXW4NCZHRw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfedujedgvdefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeeghedthedujeeiteeutddtjeekheejteeukeehffdutdejuedvfeevueeviedu udenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3ba65fda-56db-5dca-a1ae-a9a951c5e545@gutov.dev> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 02:27:24 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Subject: Re: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Content-Language: en-US To: Adam Porter , 62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , Jim Porter , Stefan Monnier , "Philip K." , Eli Zaretskii References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62750-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On 10/04/2023 15:53, Adam Porter wrote: > But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and > 'package-upgrade-all'. They have now been renamed (with Eli's blessing in another bug's thread). Without compatibility aliases. Functions inside package-vc.el have been renamed too. Thanks everybody! Closing. ------------=_1682638082-11175-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Apr 2023 12:53:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34529 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1v-0000Yi-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:53:56 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1v-0000Yb-1R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:53:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1u-0001Lr-KI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2023 08:53:54 -0400 Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.4]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1plr1s-0006GX-R7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Adam Porter Subject: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=23.83.212.4; envelope-from=adam@alphapapa.net; helo=antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Hi, Browsing the NEWS file for the first Emacs 29 pretest, I was glad to see the following new commands: +++ *** New command 'package-update'. This command allows you to upgrade packages without using 'M-x list-packages'. +++ *** New command 'package-update-all'. This command allows updating all packages without any queries. But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and 'package-upgrade-all'. In my experience in GNU/Linux systems and other software, the verb "update" is commonly used to refer to updating the list of available packages and their versions without changing the installed versions of packages (e.g. in Debian, "apt update"), while the verb "upgrade" is used to refer to actually installing newer versions of packages (e.g. "apt upgrade", or GNU Guix's "guix upgrade"). This terminology mirrors the inverse, i.e. "downgrading"; it's not said that packages are "downdated" or "backdated." Even the first NEWS entry seems to suggest this conflation, as it says, "This command allows you to upgrade packages...". If it's not too late to make this change, I think it would be worthwhile, as I think it would help prevent confusion for many users. OTOH, if Emacs 29 is released with "update packages" meaning "to upgrade packages to newer versions", we may be stuck with this confusing language for a long time. Thanks for your consideration, and for your work on Emacs. ------------=_1682638082-11175-1-- From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 14:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: 62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter , Stefan Monnier , Adam Porter , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D62750.168269194719275 (code D ref 62750); Fri, 28 Apr 2023 14:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2023 14:25:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1psP2h-00050p-DV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 10:25:47 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:43617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1psP2c-00050Z-CA for 62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 10:25:45 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D57AD2402E9 for <62750-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 16:25:36 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1682691936; bh=r9d5jhcH1HOOO+fk2bjl68oJYynDcbpvjJ3qRnNmHR8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=erntx1AIYAzeAv/6fiBxfh+XkBe5CMxIUzjQTm8ZWXPTGEuGUTvFUXXCuKzQMOMw4 /h+IjG5nl8L7OPCygACSymetZCcx6huZJ1YyZx3JP34/Zqh+KJXTMKcaze+28Yb0Ji 0htskGiFHQFS6vXzyDeeuAGJpo4md2YYzH0hwjvhcmTbN1MLcGfM8lu1NRv4nfi8l2 3UIStGEOQ0qOqD1mFN+CvBayZFu/gPHH9mueUtV/Kp2dc7WrPWbd+4cuJP8zRddeNf VaBoqo9gwgLdtdotAwkXNddo6cEHoYw5K3nfw8oYyKStsdxfMpRU4Jkr1aaUy1FG3/ pJx7DNEJYrW7w== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Q7FJG5F6Dz6tyQ; Fri, 28 Apr 2023 16:25:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic In-Reply-To: <3ba65fda-56db-5dca-a1ae-a9a951c5e545@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Fri, 28 Apr 2023 02:27:24 +0300") References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <3ba65fda-56db-5dca-a1ae-a9a951c5e545@gutov.dev> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 14:26:07 +0000 Message-ID: <878recaxs0.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 10/04/2023 15:53, Adam Porter wrote: >> But, IMHO, these commands should be named 'package-upgrade' and >> 'package-upgrade-all'. > > They have now been renamed (with Eli's blessing in another bug's > thread). Without compatibility aliases. > > Functions inside package-vc.el have been renamed too. Thanks for that. > Thanks everybody! Closing. From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 01 May 2023 01:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Dmitry Gutov Cc: Adam Porter , larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii , philipk@posteo.net, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.168290612826335 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 01 May 2023 01:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2023 01:55:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ptIlE-0006qf-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:28 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:65168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ptIlC-0006pt-Fm for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:26 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 29E6E80F19; Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A5DA1805F3; Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:19 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1682906119; bh=Rha1q19qcY5CIVVu4eDVWymzdDWJCFCzgy1kncUMVLM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=aBe/aySKMdkz0NcyDMr1xaPc9TSxa8SdaROZo/81Yf8NhizXxekZ5cj/G87oxV1+y BzyMW6QEtbbpsrkR85RO52cjtXF5JOvvsAB9obcWBp0bG56p5Z1Ow7A1tdxaWCkNsn YA3GcYJncRJuHrtTsnsANGpvQd9wa2pu3BMnbVraF0b0hGL48NiUv8hnBT+c5Mh5xl 3GuI+85dUV1PUejyCO82nXkrCiClFXNxRthe068ct/DKNtzOV2lBb2WCNsBkmNv5Rc 2hYx87lYxg6W29NaXfOzeCemE7SoVWTqngMbb0ZpGvNFuvawASd4yi6ykiuovV5siG ZYh4sRdIlFyFw== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.217.176]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AFF3120515; Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 24 Apr 2023 21:54:58 +0300") Message-ID: References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:55:17 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.114 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > That might also be the case when upgrading a package that some others > depend on (newer version could also have macros deleted or renamed). We try to make upgrades "safe", but there's usually no such effort the other way around, so downgrading is definitely more risky in practice, even though in theory things can break in all cases. > Would "update" be a more proper term to cover both upgrading and > downgrading? I think if you specify the target version, then `package-install` sounds about right (and I suspect it may already "work"). > Or that. We don't keep older versions around in ELPA anyway, so for > now the question is moot. Well, we do keep them some `elpa.gnu.org` but indeed the ELPA protocol doesn't include any way to advertise them. Stefan From unknown Mon Aug 18 02:36:07 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#62750: 29.0.50; Commands 'package-update' and 'package-update-all' should be called '*-upgrade' Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 01 May 2023 13:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Adam Porter , larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii , philipk@posteo.net, 62750@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62750.16829471843595 (code B ref 62750); Mon, 01 May 2023 13:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 62750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2023 13:19:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ptTRP-0000vv-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 May 2023 09:19:44 -0400 Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]:45527) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ptTRM-0000vg-ED for 62750@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 May 2023 09:19:43 -0400 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC3A320083A; Mon, 1 May 2023 09:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 01 May 2023 09:19:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1682947173; x=1683033573; bh=kCr7Ffe5IjdmtiLMc7ME1d5e94sqo6BPisV kUYgxfh4=; b=mTEmLIHzsnBRV0qoHW5Z126ZzB9Ht8ozOJ0zhBBrxG0QZGPEuYZ TA08Z/9j+y80A+WnmRfjZad85EZH+xFS2ZW+0r/aQPOIZx3GfYbLVYfT06ZWoyRT UTHTJeEAPopqz7vacrKOf9jKvdUUZK84k4WKJKzPSHig0/GbbZiKoTBFNGBSOgTQ IsLHBIIc+VYsfMRCXvO6kfr2IZrfk9vt0Bs4wCjbsUJe96uliqBMyXwW9glkvJVZ EAlh2XRiqTLk8BilVokelG+KqRv68sVFPf4bjMf0t0tOXuKtLusElvj4+C2UPAlW 41uxvzA58G7sF8BrUtFV3uZ1MUw6sYDZewQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1682947173; x=1683033573; bh=kCr7Ffe5IjdmtiLMc7ME1d5e94sqo6BPisV kUYgxfh4=; b=PJuwYEUfFrUkm8xY/nBhPqM7gTrEyZeHSPX7OELlXgtcyCA8V4R HN7EX0D0C7u5Ir+R33m3tJOxAb2cE+bh12c8iTEe/0SUWTvc6upql+6wURS3l2Wc YfaGSmJMSWqY78D8sk/FsMGvP4X6FrpwAnY+38PcTu+eE90edtZQHyovKFIF/Grr hYMffSGAR0/hLWJEhs2+KSUh8jIPqO1JNzHLTGptVLzahcINt8tUo2RDwX7kNqvb h9wJ4KiV4jXZEohI+Dx9TPlUpAVlDmoy5u8Xd66CXpbxxckSFHuDLfkpSFI6SsAD NYM7rz1lBAqqX9sVftFh9h2ARFwPGCtH9XQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrfedvgedgieefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepiefgteevheevveffheeltdeukeeiieekueefgedugfefgefhudelgfefveel vdevnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 1 May 2023 09:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1c28756a-68d0-e179-536c-00aa70c72593@gutov.dev> Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 16:19:29 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <2726a957-a2a8-3b89-8930-2d620d83491e@alphapapa.net> <83sfd7c1v1.fsf@gnu.org> <875ya3euof.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs95a6y3.fsf@posteo.net> <83h6tl6xgn.fsf@gnu.org> <54892fb9-fcc5-d036-e0de-e199712ff7d4@gutov.dev> <83bkjdxzbx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On 01/05/2023 04:55, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> That might also be the case when upgrading a package that some others >> depend on (newer version could also have macros deleted or renamed). > > We try to make upgrades "safe", but there's usually no such effort the > other way around, so downgrading is definitely more risky in practice, > even though in theory things can break in all cases. Very true. >> Would "update" be a more proper term to cover both upgrading and >> downgrading? > > I think if you specify the target version, then `package-install` sounds > about right (and I suspect it may already "work"). It indeed "works" in the sense that package-install performs two different functions - "Install package xyz" (i.e. make sure it is installed, some version), - "Install xyz version 1.2.3 (installs that version) It doesn't delete the currently installed version in the latter case either, though, and when downgrading we'll almost certainly want that to happen.