From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:07:03 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#6241 <6241@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#6241 <6241@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local Reply-To: bug#6241 <6241@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 06:07:03 +0000 retitle 6241 Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local reassign 6241 emacs submitter 6241 Lennart Borgman severity 6241 minor tag 6241 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 21 13:34:06 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2010 17:34:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFW6o-0003GX-5k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:34:06 -0400 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFW6m-0003GB-J7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:34:05 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:58065) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OFW6h-0007sF-Qe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:33:59 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=37751 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OFW6c-0000zs-LJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:33:59 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFW6b-0006eN-5K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:33:54 -0400 Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:40676) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFW6b-0006eH-1s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 May 2010 13:33:53 -0400 Received: by gyg4 with SMTP id 4so773469gyg.0 for ; Fri, 21 May 2010 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=wGQzICE0LhypuGjFlZ5D9TD+CyQ7qPUzV1wfk+qQmYk=; b=Bn9fAjyjM+xAlSBsAWYOhQNEn4l6vpJxPi2RS0CK8BRd+OZI2kimt4yA1UZcwYAcBx q59bRcasGYk1EHcJRMsKIeBwrtjCo7c8ipY7bIgyd2pPCOUyT4ybh264EWJrJ2YVzi3N KZKBKWC5G4PHpuINdkC0Hd9f1wm5fQIHM6Mb0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=L3rQeLD2tYiYnqUstpZDqF1+Mtybd6cP1IqTXX5Ze+FcLnRZRpIa2xzcbd9gQuW6qT Bx4EiO3kyxiqIJCkUAlctHmn0Ea4Sqv4CgMqAg5pselMKuWYGHpyEdpw6+NENDnQ2RnC qkIg26/EW19SO8u4UsvtIzSl5jw5crtoHXhTQ= Received: by 10.101.10.26 with SMTP id n26mr2798266ani.55.1274463232203; Fri, 21 May 2010 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Fri, 21 May 2010 10:33:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Lennart Borgman Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:33:31 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: Emacs Bugs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) I think everyone expects that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 25 12:54:24 2010 Received: (at 6241-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2010 16:54:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGxOZ-0005sa-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 12:54:23 -0400 Received: from relais.videotron.ca ([24.201.245.36]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGxJv-0005qD-OU for 6241-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 12:49:36 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from ceviche.home ([96.21.101.38]) by VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0L2Z000EAIQIFDE0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca> for 6241-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 12:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 96181660D3; Tue, 25 May 2010 12:49:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local Message-id: References: Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:49:29 -0400 In-reply-to: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241-done X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:54:21 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > I think everyone expects that. AFAIK it's been buffer-local for a while now. Maybe you haven't updated your checkout in the last 19 years? Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 25 13:25:22 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2010 17:25:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGxsY-00067Z-3R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:22 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.214.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGxsW-00067U-CC for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:20 -0400 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so803567bwz.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 25 May 2010 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=IwOAbvArEE/liAEhXOl0wuWtf9rRbNT50HWlwuba4iM=; b=ZoXZzTcrQMpKB2kGB5UbW8QHA0O/faqRV3VDEA17OJFDIdf5xWRtPrC50d6Wx6BLZC j0zKrGcRm3q6KqhZ2bYNgnFg4qhIfytcCUT2aUiEIf162WEQ+mC2+ojrc0CNevmYbRMi R3PN2lr7WwSSUhsmeEO5aKLJGugPOM79ZChqw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=IV/Oa2IyXuTiKTRZTYR9TJ/qLYf9fZz0fgAYErfg+9GVeJPMNmCFB0sH6DYVvGJjlf TQdiSmBkqeHVJvle4+mkjzw9M9dkxKnxDqI6hPu6OMyj0e6LuR88NLd9HIxwPm5efQ1u UHATVle1aUT3RIhVb7bEzRNByJTyq1oSS3ZLM= Received: by 10.204.151.71 with SMTP id b7mr2715429bkw.114.1274808315183; Tue, 25 May 2010 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.157.19 with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2010 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Juanma Barranquero Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 19:24:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Lennart Borgman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 18:49, Stefan Monnier wrote: > AFAIK it's been buffer-local for a while now. > Maybe you haven't updated your checkout in the last 19 years? Lennart didn't write "buffer-local", but *permanent* local, i.e., (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) Juanma From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 25 14:09:56 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2010 18:09:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGyZf-0006Ss-Gs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:55 -0400 Received: from relais.videotron.ca ([24.201.245.36]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGyZd-0006Sk-Qq; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:54 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from ceviche.home ([96.21.101.38]) by VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0L2Z002CYMGCALO0@VL-MH-MR003.ip.videotron.ca>; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CBBC4660D3; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Juanma Barranquero Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local Message-id: References: Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:47 -0400 In-reply-to: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) reopen 6241 thanks >> AFAIK it's been buffer-local for a while now. >> Maybe you haven't updated your checkout in the last 19 years? > Lennart didn't write "buffer-local", but *permanent* local, i.e., > (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) Oh, I see, sorry for being too trigger-happy. Hmm... I'm not sure whether it would be good or not, and more importantly, I'm not sure how it'd affect existing code. Could someone investigate how safe would be such a change, and could someone argue for (and/or against) it? Stefan From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:07:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 18:10:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 25 14:54:26 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2010 18:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGzGj-0007Nh-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:54:25 -0400 Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com ([74.125.83.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OGzGh-0007Nb-Ey for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 May 2010 14:54:23 -0400 Received: by gwj15 with SMTP id 15so1319959gwj.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 25 May 2010 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=olP5HQeJHM4kXODiYpmlTBi3/P/baVSYoKj3/0lkSuw=; b=q9rq72ko2BVXoMY6FfaOaL8gHYjC+5Au2maBXm4gMdFJhyuyJocabIljVMUmMrUJMi aMJIsQhN0NHUAIuRnN5nbniRY3ozGccH5f0a8uAE2JfvQu8MNxEVX77Efkt7oVhex9AP oTfFUR4aJGOVeUXqixrq3ozVPl+rI9gJVhWCk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GarfDZtyVm1BIKEy5tO8RvBTt50mdVeQBbyU8ofVi3BWLIk4kpiVXkdMjJ6OusXZF0 sjWmqiD+cg7k8C2+jqIrN61GBRtTO6pyMnzfaZpWd56V14sRHnJ/dTqcIkbnQkh5TAjl EGnTW0/MFGasYnT1cTyGbnrpFSP/XG77y18Hw= Received: by 10.101.145.21 with SMTP id x21mr9050926ann.232.1274813656002; Tue, 25 May 2010 11:54:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2010 11:53:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:53:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) > > Oh, I see, sorry for being too trigger-happy. > Hmm... I'm not sure whether it would be good or not, and more > importantly, I'm not sure how it'd affect existing code. =C2=A0Could some= one > investigate how safe would be such a change, and could someone argue for > (and/or against) it? First trigger-happy and then worried. Disappointment often leads to worries= ;-) Maybe it is my imagination, but I can't think of anything that can go seriously wrong here. (Unless the code that queries the user is wrong, but let us find those bugs in that case.) The only thing that I believe can go very wrong is that buffer-offer-save gets killed - in the situation that we have now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 26 21:28:25 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2010 01:28:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHRtY-000544-Tf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 May 2010 21:28:25 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.213.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHRtX-00053z-M2 for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 May 2010 21:28:24 -0400 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35so61705yxn.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:28:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.142.18 with SMTP id p18mr433440ybd.126.1274923695896; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.143.21 with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:28:15 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GxLRssDWroOlqsg0Zsp8s2NZR7I Message-ID: Subject: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local From: MON KEY To: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , Lennart Borgman , Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > importantly, I'm not sure how it'd affect existing code. Could someone > investigate how safe would be such a change, and could someone argue for > (and/or against) it? I don't have a definitive use case where this is clearly NTRT but in general I find these types of `globals' invasive and I appreciate the luxury of being able to nuke them when and as I see fit. Let third-parties put the variable as needed if that is what they/their code requires.... esp. as they may have no idea whatsoever what _I_ will be doing with _my_ buffers. From a user perspective it is often a burden for me to undo this type overreaching. -- /s_p\ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 26 21:36:22 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2010 01:36:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHS1G-00057E-8O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 May 2010 21:36:22 -0400 Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com ([74.125.83.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHS1E-000579-A7 for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 May 2010 21:36:20 -0400 Received: by gwj15 with SMTP id 15so2603255gwj.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:36:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GoLXx18uY36J+JH3XRB1LNJuDm2c9MMqDRwkhsIJU0E=; b=LAzY2QkVk/TXPw8MJdq22bk0XbqISBGJ8AVKinUKDhIVSrwtCW8gUNjx9lSgt3qI5y 2KxFj98SkQeTuNh1RpjPoiJMbogjxHRcK1nzKak9pOzhsBAfXpEv1h7RPJu/RypA2M8a 2Ae6UaVR/NYLjovP6ouTOOJuabgsFr9PeiYU8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rEoX1yK14PoQTdl0WLWaxAoOp7Vmk8PW2xJNrNc9RRdfjeIbSm3K2JDE7SG3zmQSFc RgvmaCeVariI7Hz4Yypm6kd01cj4yj1NrkSLf0NU8FrypkXMs313uwCdfh1ggswvvROW 5JHSHHIwfHTMyRgLkEkIsdxjd+De4Q+I9yaRg= Received: by 10.101.130.30 with SMTP id h30mr12434514ann.7.1274924176209; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:36:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Wed, 26 May 2010 18:35:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 03:35:56 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: MON KEY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 3:28 AM, MON KEY wrote: >> importantly, I'm not sure how it'd affect existing code. =C2=A0Could som= eone >> investigate how safe would be such a change, and could someone argue for >> (and/or against) it? > > I don't have a definitive use case where this is clearly NTRT but in > general I find these types of `globals' invasive and I appreciate the > luxury of being able to nuke them when and as I see fit. It seems like you are misunderstanding what (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) means. There is no problem still killing the local variable. You can do that with (kill-local-variable 'buffer-offer-save) just as before. The only difference is that it is not killed when you change major mode in the buffer. > Let > third-parties put the variable as needed if that is what they/their code > requires.... esp. as they may have no idea whatsoever what _I_ will be > doing with _my_ buffers. From a user perspective it is often a burden > for me to undo this type overreaching. What burden do you see here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 27 17:56:15 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2010 21:56:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHl3m-00082f-Gf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:56:14 -0400 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.211.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHl3k-00082a-QO for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:56:13 -0400 Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so159597ywh.0 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 May 2010 14:56:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.193.18 with SMTP id q18mr748218ybf.129.1274997368117; Thu, 27 May 2010 14:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.143.21 with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 14:56:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:56:07 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: m7agsI0q7ArKPA8LY0Y0j9xouyY Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local From: MON KEY To: Lennart Borgman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > It seems like you are misunderstanding what > > (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) > > means. I well understand what it means. It seems you are being hasty in your zeal to initiate this change. > There is no problem still killing the local variable. You can > do that with > > (kill-local-variable 'buffer-offer-save) > > just as before. Likewise, just as it can be killed. You/your code can just as easily put the varibabe on the buffer. What exactly is the big deal about having to set the variable with an explicit: (put 'buffer-offer-save 'permanent-local t) > The only difference is that it is not killed when you > change major mode in the buffer. This is what I understood your request to pertain to. It is potentially problematcic. ,---- (documentation 'kill-all-local-variables) | { ... } | | As a special exception, local variables whose names have a non-nil | `permanent-local' property are not eliminated by this function. | | The first thing this function does is run the normal hook | `change-major-mode-hook'. `---- Many major mode hooks run `kill-all-local-variables' implicilty. What you may have missed is that a good deal of them also invoke it _explicitly_ when switching. IMHO locals like this _should_ be killed when changing major mode. Judging by the number of explicit calls to `kill-all-local-variables' in lisp/progmodes/* it would seem that many major-mode package authors may think similiarly (one can't know without asking each of them). Lennart, why do you think `buffer-local-variables' such as `buffer-offer-save' should not be killed with `kill-all-local-variables' as they are now. FWIW my impression is that _you_ need this variable to be permanent-local w/re mumamo. However, to the extent to which that package (and corrolary/dependent features) are often extensively kludged/advised I'm certainly not comfortable with extending this variable just to accomodate that morass. Understand I intend no offense here -- its impressive what you've been able to accomplish w/re mumamo etc. given Emacs' limitations in this area :-) Regardless, to the extent that this is your motivation for making the request it is most definitely not the NTRT. If you're unhappy with the means with which you are required to set/unset this variable, write a macro and be done with it, but please don't just request change of a very important (albeit generally overlooked) routine that will affect _every_ major-mode just because it impedes your coding of mumamo et al. FWIW it seems that if you can just holdout awhile longer for full incorporation of lexical-bind a good deal of your challenges w/re mumamo could be addressed by taking advantage of the first-class closures it will allow. > > What burden do you see here? > What burden did you fail to take into account in your haste? Now whenever user code, older third-party packages, major-modes etc. call `kill-all-local-variables' any non-nil settings of buffer-offer-save won't go away. Users will now be required to explicitly remove it. Following is an enumration of the 35 files and the ~50 functions which explicitly call to `kill-all-local-variables' in Emacs 23.2's lisp/progmodes: cc-mode.el.gz -> `c-mode', `c++-mode', `objc-mode', `java-mode', `idl-mode', `pike-mode', `awk-mode', ebrowse.el.gz -> `ebrowse-tree-mode', `ebrowse-electric-list-mode', `ebrowse-member-mode' `ebrowse-electric-position-mode', etags.el.gz -> `next-file' This one is quite interesting. gdb-ui.el.gz -> `gdb-breakpoints-mode', `gdb-frames-mode', `gdb-threads-mode, `gdb-memory-mode', `gdb-registers-mode', `gdb-locals-mode', `gdb-assembler-mode' idlwave.el.gz -> `idlwave-mode', `idlwave-display-user-catalog-widget', idlw-shell.el.gz -> Note this comment in `idlwave-shell-mode' source: ,---- | We don't do `kill-all-local-variables' here, because this is | done by comint. `---- ada-mode.el.gz -> `ada-mode' antlr-mode.el.gz -> `antlr-mode' asm-mode.el.gz -> `asm-mode' autoconf.el.gz -> `autoconf-mode' compile.el.gz -> `compilation-mode' cperl-mode.el.gz -> `cperl-mode' cpp.el.gz -> `cpp-edit-mode' dcl-mode.el.gz -> `dcl-mode' delphi.el.gz -> `delphi-mode' f90.el.gz -> `f90-mode' fortran.el.gz -> `fortran-mode' icon.el.gz -> icon-mode idlw-help.el.gz -> `idlwave-help-mode' m4-mode.el.gz -> `m4-mode' make-mode.el.gz -> `makefile-mode' meta-mode.el.gz -> `meta-common-initialization' modula2.el.gz -> `modula-2-mode' octave-mod.el.gz -> `octave-mode' pascal.el.gz -> `pascal-mode' perl-mode.el.gz -> `perl-mode' prolog.el.gz -> `prolog-mode' ruby-mode.el.gz -> `ruby-mode' scheme.el.gz -> `scheme-mode' sh-script.el.gz -> `sh-mode' sql.el.gz -> `sql-mode' vera-mode.el.gz -> `vera-mode' verilog-mode.el.gz -> `verilog-mode' vhdl-mode.el.gz -> `vhdl-mode' xscheme.el.gz -> `scheme-interaction-mode' I also suspect that there are (or will be) modes which take advantage of asynchrous processing in conjunction with a major-mode which will now have to worry about unsetting this variable regardless of whether the results of the asynchrounous process succeed or not... Explicit calls to kill-all-local-variables In Emacs 23.2's /lisp/net: dig.elc eudc.el.gz eudc-hotlist.el.gz mairix.el.gz newst-plainview.elc newst-treeview.el.gz quickurl.el.gz rcirc.el.gz snmp-mode.el.gz xesam.el.gz Likewise, I imagine there are some immediate corner cases where tramp'd buffers wouldn't appreciate buffer-offer-save being permanent local. I'm tiring of this enumeration... I'm sure there are many more usage instances of `kill-all-local-variables' in lisp/* which _may_ expect that buffer-offer-save is _not_ affected in the manner which you propose. This doesn't even begin to take into account third party code... Should you insist that this change be made please ask on emacs-devel before asserting that: "I think everyone expects that." I don't. -- /s_P\ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 27 18:25:48 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2010 22:25:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHlWN-0008FU-Qw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 18:25:48 -0400 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.211.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHlWL-0008FO-VM for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 18:25:46 -0400 Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so178583ywh.0 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Lnn82dbSJGwiRfA2UGIFIi4KJ0y+/0vClwEchpvU8vI=; b=WIECe5Aa05t5pb1++BmP0e861vYoGQP4jkF08VHplLI6cdpjcMw7f7HQbhSwgBjwYA fsdeNR6eoZsCBofT+7ZTxkhfdtMBHKg0+0L/bzBLM0pcktPJYrzOPzbE9Ar3ybvTOuNW +hyiiSw2+O5u6POmSA6kvf3UNyfHdLoXXy3LI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xzW7P4scdB3GDpM4xbXnZfJvHelygGiYkIxY1GhROL5XHLlDsuOXPE+FajOuIJYyjI uo9dD3IRSdoZwXPyE2L4t9vxHadvJka26Bqy+mpPzIY4X2A3XGYDx4wGhbP1PvJptvZv e+pjivprwMdHbkRwAlxJszgBYyXaCipHiAipc= Received: by 10.101.210.31 with SMTP id m31mr13736747anq.205.1274999141446; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:25:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:25:20 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: MON KEY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:56 PM, MON KEY wrote: > > Many major mode hooks run `kill-all-local-variables' implicilty. All of them should. > What you may have missed is that a good deal of them also invoke it > _explicitly_ when switching. That is because they were written before define-derived-mode was available. > IMHO locals like this _should_ be killed when changing major mode. Most buffer local variables should be killed normally because they more or less belong to the major modes. However or buffer local variables are not the same type of creatures. Some of them do not belong to the major mode. They rather belong to the buffer contents (or are a state in the user interaction with the buffer, like editor emulator state). I think that `buffer-offer-save' belongs to the content. It protect the contents from being thrown away by the user of mistake. And that is a very important function, far above major modes need. Don't you think so? There might be exceptions when `buffer-offer-save' should be killed when the major mode is changed, but these can easily be fixed if we find such cases. > FWIW my impression is that _you_ need this variable to be > permanent-local w/re mumamo. This has nothing to do with mumamo, but I am aware of the different forms of buffer local variables because of mumamo. > I also suspect that there are (or will be) modes which take advantage > of asynchrous processing in conjunction with a major-mode which will > now have to worry about unsetting this variable regardless of whether > the results of the asynchrounous process succeed or not... Please explain more exactly in what situations and why you think they want to kill `buffer-offer-save'. If you do that we can fix such cases. I can't think of any myself at the moment. > Likewise, I imagine there are some immediate corner cases where > tramp'd buffers wouldn't appreciate buffer-offer-save being permanent > local. Same question as above. Exactly when and why? > Should you insist that this change be made please ask on emacs-devel > before asserting that: > > =C2=A0"I think everyone expects that." > > I don't. Of course, if you can be more specific in your concerns. I just don't understand them yet. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 27 20:28:03 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2010 00:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHnQh-0000dj-L9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:28:03 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHnQf-0000dM-FI for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:28:02 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAIGq/ktMCpdY/2dsb2JhbACeIXLAR4UTBIxE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,314,1272859200"; d="scan'208";a="65820336" Received: from 76-10-151-88.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.151.88]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 27 May 2010 20:27:57 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 0A0878267; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:27:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local Message-ID: References: Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:27:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri, 28 May 2010 00:25:20 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, MON KEY , Juanma Barranquero X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) > I think that `buffer-offer-save' belongs to the content. It protect > the contents from being thrown away by the user of mistake. And that > is a very important function, far above major modes need. Don't you > think so? That's the question, indeed. Note that the question is only relevant for non-file buffers (since the variable is ignored for file-buffers). >> Likewise, I imagine there are some immediate corner cases where >> tramp'd buffers wouldn't appreciate buffer-offer-save being >> permanent local. Not sure what you mean by "tramp'd buffers", but AFAICT such buffers would most likely be file-buffers and are hence unaffected. I'd tend to agree with Lennart, if for nothing else that it's easier to circumvent an annoying permanent-local than it is to fake one. I.e. if a var is permanent-local and you need it to be killed by kill-all-local-variables, you can do something like: (add-hook 'change-major-mode-hook (lambda () (kill-local-variable 'foobar))) whereas if it is not permanent-local and you need it to survive a change of major-mode, you have to jump through a few more hoops (a change-major-mode-hook to stash the variable's content somewhere, plus an after-change-major-mode-hook to reset it after the fact, plus additional code to handle the case when after-change-major-mode-hook is not run, ...). So, now that the question of "should it ideally be permanent-local?" is resolved, the remaining question is: "what would be the impact of such a change", which requires examining all uses of the variable and assessing the effect of the change for each case. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 27 20:40:18 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2010 00:40:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHncX-0000kB-SI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:40:18 -0400 Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHncW-0000k5-7t for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:40:16 -0400 Received: by gyh4 with SMTP id 4so453967gyh.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:40:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=4CyIhJAcVtQFYdKb5TS07UQYLZmTq2uUxmaPePBU4lw=; b=k4wDO41ybYFcp7AFRTmL4huZDxkm99ijDBQk8AN/A6axbBvAYECPIOIvdSTsVJbGvC ag5sSLRATgtGgasUejVdRj47xtr+TnvLLAsULkrcKkUZkiNF5GK1T0x47WyNrradCyP6 4M2vVRQVU8TtF8MNSJAn7JOu4uDIGTcibRq7A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=pLfjHRlWrbO394Swf72O16N3a62nORFJujmVBOhnKfyA4bCTZeY+Ej1ADFnLTs3Z8V C5L3g8hsJDhwSiksg8zUfvtwXS8kE6RSccJ5DhZQnoAORkkeXptSztMB64WfcjS+hWBG Ic+t0aeNqHTw3vLVhGSS0rpd5s4mFGBb5JbD4= Received: by 10.101.4.4 with SMTP id g4mr13221078ani.156.1275007211270; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:40:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 17:39:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 02:39:51 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, MON KEY , Juanma Barranquero X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:27 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > So, now that the question of "should it ideally be permanent-local?" is > resolved, the remaining question is: "what would be the impact of such > a change", which requires examining all uses of the variable and > assessing the effect of the change for each case. I think the only really important cases is when buffer-offer-save is set to t somewhere which is in ./ediff-util.el:589: (setq buffer-offer-save t) ; ask before killing buffer Seems OK. ./gnus/message.el:2900: (setq buffer-offer-save t) ./mail/sendmail.el:654: (setq buffer-offer-save t) ./mh-e/mh-folder.el:647: (setq buffer-offer-save t) All those seems OK to me, but I am not sure. I am not using them. ./org/org-src.el:629: (setq buffer-offer-save t) Seems OK. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 28 00:38:09 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2010 04:38:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHrKj-0002Ih-9t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 00:38:09 -0400 Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com ([74.125.83.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHrKh-0002IP-7z for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 00:38:08 -0400 Received: by gwj19 with SMTP id 19so577001gwj.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:38:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.100.14 with SMTP id x14mr1033336ybb.365.1275021483495; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.143.21 with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:38:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:38:03 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: pfdrNKf9qz-lt8XTU3EANh-4GQM Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local From: MON KEY To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Not sure what you mean by "tramp'd buffers", but AFAICT such buffers > would most likely be file-buffers and are hence unaffected. howsabout for example comint when tramp'd? > > So, now that the question of "should it ideally be permanent-local?" is > resolved, the remaining question is: "what would be the impact of such Resolved... WTF? > a change", which requires examining all uses of the variable and > assessing the effect of the change for each case. This is ridiculous, please poll whatever this proposed change is becoming on emacs-devel before proceeding w/ this line of reasoning. This is the wrong way to draw a conclusion esp. in lieu of a bug report that was initially one sentence in length. Its not even a bug!!! > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Stefan -- /s_P\ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 28 00:48:16 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2010 04:48:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHrUW-0002Mu-Gd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 00:48:16 -0400 Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHrUV-0002Mp-Hh for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 00:48:15 -0400 Received: by gyh4 with SMTP id 4so572383gyh.3 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:48:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.239.10 with SMTP id m10mr1042673ybh.315.1275022090932; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.143.21 with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 21:48:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:48:10 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3qdVYso0IZQgDQf1kaBIlkizCss Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local From: MON KEY To: Lennart Borgman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > > Please explain more exactly in what situations and why you think they > want to kill `buffer-offer-save'. If you do that we can fix such > cases. I can't think of any myself at the moment. > This is wrong. It is your request, you should be explaining on emacs-devel the exact reason, rationale and use case intended for why this change is needed. > Same question as above. Exactly when and why? Indeed. What are the specific situations this change will remedy. What is the current practice for dealing with them. What is lost if the proposed change doesn't occur. These are the things you should be asking in a more public forum. -- /s_P\ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri May 28 06:40:11 2010 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2010 10:40:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHwz4-0004yy-Ju for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 06:40:10 -0400 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.211.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OHwz2-0004yj-1D for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 May 2010 06:40:08 -0400 Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so537726ywh.0 for <6241@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 28 May 2010 03:40:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=s7u1i2/vvKiIQAcSJP4Rn1SGkV3MgIVikvynWxptiNE=; b=NaRoIZNGKslcNZoxGHIAN/k9IJXGFeOg+ptZO5WCMuqtEHQAJHxVl4xDk+3jsGaq+V cnc7jvLvoetpuurUHi9Q5MQuIlmaQoeWWeS9xB/gVh1fjyQ12n4RydBBwaUZBdWAC4cA ryeldZqtAYNjIgFZGFtT1JahPxhY+TA8WiC8s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=QRJLUpeDLw90utLyH9flswrAUT633SiJ7yNb+KPmbEaYmNgrnHEQ9JSnCkvMR6Y67E iqoRNxyrASMxBbZwdi4F/YCBfOypsPHRsMQwdB6+SykgzGo6cVZUmbD5yrj6+iF4EhOf cE4p2qiy+9yhBn0FksbNQOH3xUG/KhEqRj3pM= Received: by 10.101.131.40 with SMTP id i40mr115512ann.49.1275043200223; Fri, 28 May 2010 03:40:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.177.20 with HTTP; Fri, 28 May 2010 03:39:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lennart Borgman Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 12:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local To: MON KEY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: 6241@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:48 AM, MON KEY wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Lennart Borgman > wrote: >> >> Please explain more exactly in what situations and why you think they >> want to kill `buffer-offer-save'. If you do that we can fix such >> cases. I can't think of any myself at the moment. >> > > This is wrong. It is your request, you should be explaining on > emacs-devel the exact > reason, rationale and use case intended for why this change is needed. > >> Same question as above. Exactly when and why? > > Indeed. > What are the specific situations this change will remedy. > What is the current practice for dealing with them. > What is lost if the proposed change doesn't occur. Of course. However I think I have explained this. Here it is again: 1) The reason for the proposed change is that people should not loose their changes to non-file buffer that they have said they might want to save. 2) Currently if a user has set buffer-offer-save to t for this it is lost if the buffer major mode for some reason is changed. 3) User data is lost. 4) There might be cases where some "smart" code actually delete the buffer local value buffer-offer-save by intention implicitly by switching major mode. Doing this implicitly hides the purpose and is therefore easily broken and misunderstood since major modes is normally not at all connected with whether the buffer content should be saved or not. Rather these two things are more orthogonal. Could you please explain to me your reason for asking the above questions after all I have already written before about this? Have I been to unclear so that you did not understand? Or do you think something is missing? > These are the things you should be asking in a more public forum. > > -- > /s_P\ > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 18:01:05 2011 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 22:01:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh7UK-0002e5-OA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:01:04 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh7UF-0002bL-KT for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:00:59 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh7U1-0005uP-1X; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:00:41 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri, 28 May 2010 02:39:51 +0200") Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 23:59:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Tom Tom Club's _Tom Tom Club_ X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::riWcW6ErBlwERRIa:0000000000000000000000000000000000000D+tp X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:lekktu@gmail.com::O0VB27i0pobPc8BV:0FFpY X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:monkey@sandpframing.com::pRgIfGzAtxu7osLi:00000000000000000000000000000000000000TS5U X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:6241@debbugs.gnu.org::jA0fxb7o70xtfHXc:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000dLvC X-Hashcash: 1:23:110713:lennart.borgman@gmail.com::nVqqgnEY7ozeJc8W:000000000000000000000000000000000000vJkp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qh7U1-0005uP-1X X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311199241.12394@CanH4w0yg7R7Uqy2zMCWgQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: MON KEY , Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lennart Borgman writes: >> So, now that the question of "should it ideally be permanent-local?" is >> resolved, the remaining question is: "what would be the impact of such >> a change", which requires examining all uses of the variable and >> assessing the effect of the change for each case. > > I think the only really important cases is when buffer-offer-save is > set to t somewhere which is in > > ./ediff-util.el:589: (setq buffer-offer-save t) ; ask before > killing buffer > Seems OK. > > ./gnus/message.el:2900: (setq buffer-offer-save t) > ./mail/sendmail.el:654: (setq buffer-offer-save t) > ./mh-e/mh-folder.el:647: (setq buffer-offer-save t) > All those seems OK to me, but I am not sure. I am not using them. > > ./org/org-src.el:629: (setq buffer-offer-save t) > Seems OK. I think it would make sense to make it 'permanent-local in these cases, at least. If there's only these use cases, then it seems like the right thing to do. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 15:03:01 2011 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 19:03:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiA8j-0004FY-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:03:01 -0400 Received: from [207.164.135.98] (helo=soln-sr3720.solutionip.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiA8h-0004FN-A7 for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:02:59 -0400 Received: from [172.22.15.247] (helo=ceviche.home) by soln-sr3720.solutionip.com with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 1QiA8b-0004tx-00; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:02:53 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6A9A9660D5; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:02:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local Message-ID: References: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:02:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 23:59:41 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: MON KEY , Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > I think it would make sense to make it 'permanent-local in these cases, > at least. If there's only these use cases, then it seems like the right > thing to do. Feel free to make it permanent-local, but then please check that all uses are still correct. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 16:00:32 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 20:00:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB2O-000771-0t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:00:32 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB2L-0006v5-97 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:00:29 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB28-0004KY-T2 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:00:16 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:00:16 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #6241 X-MailScanner-ID: 1QiB28-0004KY-T2 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311451217.21872@bxGfjPULOf+8AwaVVEc3UA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 6241 fixed close 6241 24.1 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 16:02:24 2011 Received: (at 6241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2011 20:02:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB48-0007NX-GU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:02:24 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB42-0007NI-Th for 6241@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:02:19 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QiB3o-0004Lc-M0; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:02:00 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#6241: Please make buffer-offer-save permanent local In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:02:53 -0400") Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:00:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Laurie Freelove's _Songs From The Nineline_: "No Fire" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:6241@debbugs.gnu.org::w0TeFzU0p0tndff3:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000KZIh X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:lekktu@gmail.com::Ps/cmIt0oHYvZDVX:0VNFn X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:monkey@sandpframing.com::7nOocs3dDWQIA64E:00000000000000000000000000000000000000TewV X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:lennart.borgman@gmail.com::/PCQ3H9rF7IMgnaV:000000000000000000000000000000000000nPeC X-Hashcash: 1:23:110716:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::WfbEGVlov9Xdwwqo:00000000000000000000000000000000000025T1x MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QiB3o-0004Lc-M0 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311451321.15026@haMIalNRMc4tP0ncSwfsLA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 6241 Cc: MON KEY , Juanma Barranquero , 6241@debbugs.gnu.org, Lennart Borgman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: >> I think it would make sense to make it 'permanent-local in these cases, >> at least. If there's only these use cases, then it seems like the right >> thing to do. > > Feel free to make it permanent-local, but then please check that all > uses are still correct. I've now done so, and things still seem to work, so I'm checking it in. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:07:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 23 16:18:14 2013 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2013 21:18:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9MU2-0003CZ-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:18:14 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:49328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U9MU0-0003CT-TC for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:18:13 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U9MSY-0005Sq-WA for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:16:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:16:42 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 13792 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) unarchive 6241 forcemerge 6241 13792 From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:07:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator