From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 00:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.167633293517659 (code B ref -1); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 00:03:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 00:02:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51997 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilz-0004al-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:15 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilx-0004ac-Q0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilx-00029X-L8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:13 -0500 Received: from relayout01.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.201] helo=relayout01-redir.e.movistar.es) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilv-0005Sn-KZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:13 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout01.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PG1bf3L58zfc11 for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:05 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout01 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PG1bf3L58zfc11.AF478 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676937726.81287@W1ji6Whv1ozkxBaiw5QVcQ X-Spam-Status: No Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=86.109.101.201; envelope-from=ofv@wanadoo.es; helo=relayout01-redir.e.movistar.es X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) AFAIK icon-title-format was broken since long time ago (possibly for several major releases) and it was fixed recently. I propose that its default value should be nil, and interpret that value as "same as frame-title-format". That's why: 1. The case of having an specific frame title when it is iconified seems to me as way less frequent than expecting that the frame keeps the same title. 2. After upgrading to Emacs 29, users that set frame-title-format will see how frames change their title when iconified. 3. There are mechanisms for applying settings or performing actions depending on the title of a frame (KDE Window Rules and scripts based on xdotool, for instance.) For keeping those mechanisms on a working state with Emacs 29, the user must ensure that either it keeps icon-title-format synced with frame-title-format and/or his scripts must be adapted. Without that, any config that depends on the content's of the frame title will be broken (unless the user already set icon-title-format, but it would be surprising if he did, as that setting had no effect until now.) Having a working icon-title-format, in practice, is a new feature, so defining a new default for it shouldn't have any impact. Certainly, it will not have a visible effect compared to recent Emacs releases. However, keeping its current default value may cause confusion and breakage for any user that sets frame-title-format on his config. The required change in code is simple enough: src/xdisp.c | 3 ++- modified src/xdisp.c @@ -13424,7 +13424,8 @@ gui_consider_frame_title (Lisp_Object frame) Fselect_window (f->selected_window, Qt); set_buffer_internal_1 (XBUFFER (XWINDOW (f->selected_window)->contents)); - fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) ? Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; + fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) && !NILP (Vicon_title_format) ? + Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; mode_line_target = MODE_LINE_TITLE; title_start = MODE_LINE_NOPROP_LEN (0); ... plus a trivial doc change on its DEFVAR_LISP and initialization. If this proposal is acceptable, it should be applied to Emacs 29, to avoid putting ourselves on a similar scenario when Emacs 30 is released. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Po Lu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167636659131087 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:24:01 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 09:23:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52555 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRrWp-00085L-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 04:23:11 -0500 Received: from sonic307-35.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.58]:38972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRrWn-000852-0s for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 04:23:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676366582; bh=Hia6aA7oIC/zwTSRIRsSK3ufRhJpduX0T/PFsF8/yN4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=ItV1EkaVHML3qObgpkvDGg/1ywIquhZD3ZA0Z7Yu3ylKyHxi/ooYmvuAFnqMpTSfCt+TITbWRb/2Gpm1hmkVH7S52hAdwjKDgPCmL2JD9n77wsb7PZI5XhRtTmZGuaArc+k3h066FD6ll7z5RE1839CIjwkO1alJEtZa7z40pIvMG8CyXu25iGExLGsz506FnO6ScBKDX7HDdsJVBaS+IJ/kNCaE0Im1p8mU2+fFoD8y7HvqNxP2a16G0/Zol3vqObOB09j3f037LRNEtS1Uiw0vbnMzBdR0lFrkUnlHOHkYcSCWCYgeYzIdvhPurzdtXu2t0XwQWbWH0ir56CSU9Q== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676366582; bh=XuZY6keNY6naP0iyEfHeXfQut4cOFgMLqsAl/xfAEaZ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=VX6J2SoMaeVVpWDQKZATKCYyzECElyrOpapBJxtqxtDZTMQYr1JTo2p4wATTYpKtVdlapjIGgfH54mcxTXy5VEBYx5VCFSieSnKtssY+raCOsxoicRx+GhmLLjkWDuSKTCheuaUCj/ikEBRlRIQ5py6lQzJRemozLjz0sFOlDRV1ANivTwv7GTCvn6paBic5UzM+rK6ok5FecUBdGvenkcmB61DJg+ehpugkoTnLdeBiBjBa09IO8P/K6j8cmbjLx4A9ZAfJR0dlgvSp1xdFvGKBY1rNqwOVgJbX94uW+QomkHQZI08nlQ+R4XXwQjVEaMJt5zNIficnf8oTw0jTIg== X-YMail-OSG: UKm5Qh0VM1kUFULOxHFDF7GBxi7OTz5wXG2QEJtDNNXRcpeLtcAJ1di.9ARlgUL RFqOZT4.5p0izrLZFUGXXWb8KEISUoI0p4Q7eazl8RYtfZPCr8M7ymh3JCTkwga6hYn6RvzUH8b7 8A8rlDULsMnxFK6GBy07jxl6iOTzMoV38QtyPrlHNnfy3MLJ3Vo42omtEEhOb8O75VS.32bal7qC ohhjj263ABunnRfcNJAurlKaZDdTfjy6j_w7j8LSiGOBQy.VvhpWVF.gCcsH3AlwXWcVSFjZOfD3 P_7z4vkbX8t1HkVO8LZ3Y0qesIATdCD2Ob5PKSa4Qd_bLsi1kfTECEqtZWOsRvekE56NdVvAeO34 WK1G7z76HfGF7GTgdjzFekGoCvs_BWEHYCoYntGV73l.cDsmSjVC8dGN_diw4EZgyZYEJcj8RxcC htbMsi8BvnGxb3m4KdbBlRgFpGs_duhHb3XQ9lLYL7aDhHn9I8enRdgz5Dxgw4BG0xd7ZfEUE04S f1WqtANCcy47qJ_85ByW922OvIu_UX6TqhwJWNstCM.rgvscJqFZx4OZAtS5cOyPDMFpqPr2apWO nUI7VYSgot2_alMDBnvvKIpjQRtZs3.6bEZrGbJrrQRuXjRByAc5gfZY91hoEKAU_oBY9SNEqgnh Ur2NfhfcbvAzuUXVzyTlg.KrfmIb6C685ul6OkF23Q.aLJFYqSCY4kJGeKwQm_bjyaHVzXvWYNf. nF9LH.Z7NHy2Ho.C_5BvycvAnHEYS5UOtxm_YlnU8T8WKdxeQVER.QZ3EmoUQsBqs4JWOIqPGPkY 52QcN2eGFGQ05o8j9BoebPpXclNiQ6R__eFH2L5bOAy4bagxIqpLFMyjqF5KdOlBmLKqLOSeDmAj 8hFhFRLDDsuPW4LM9b52dJixKsxa0stDphE1wMG1GBe.GP0AbHe2zsYiwWHbtJMdFAsqDX6G1tgv rBIc0rdy6LQiv51AipU4OjTxtiFOZQ6otruRjkhl2Pq8UPrBJ7ndk9qygEjGTLRAjA5GNG_IEL_i Jtq5gCMW_WaLvKsvBJiOf0._RebX72jn_A4.3YfiVIhKDJNUyDmxgHDxnb2f3cqZPsa2UfC9v4FZ 2B8sL4ZL2MEeEA4xTVChetnvKHxfNxI.tT80n80_595noVw8xkFZAitUKBWBBT1EmCJhxXrdIKeq FBI6nhpliAyA0e0SRB6mwZO56cZkVXXQxV2pd9N37duou49CSBUTjEcb0HT475lyf3L.mpgspAoT 3sbzdKqL7wDM19jKnS4EaagPfsVUIPsy5na0oVtjFyQpw7XZ2ETU9XMANjG_6fEpnTJeXp_GDA4c LBdjlaqYgAiYaYbDc5wmQWQz5k.I9BoRuGxwCADTuqQH1d6vZQM09uEfIQQujZUzQHzPj1BFMYbp 05AHzOHNXUv8CWhmlW.F8Iw4SxIYe31.6Jww56LwvP92bxC7cPXx_pKSL5kFb6TrruXJAES7uzkT 1cYz_FUq6dmMu8fCEEJOagd6KIlW8ztCGPUmnBkQGfXhCdwmbxOT0Ke.1rS6o6pvdcgC2.b5qPCn cyOk.lLVdn8_k5Yh4DpdOLm6KnRh.ekWySv0EwzlkUwh5ayncSVJGWz7HKSP9XFfQIpo_UuF9rfR 9Wbv99XfrouLFwzdRemssYFnh7VJIzE.mkG2H.El5FKmektfMMdTglhNLtmMuPuR70YvJHJhMkpu ICc9lOhsTntfxGiHUIup3jtqgxJKzIIe4uCmy04DwS6xbVAA.Oqu5Ws_2.8kkgoY7YhB5RvrasSj dXgIErYDP.EYN0WzIUuAwgmRJHS9oTaYE9T_q3MYmsPUA7IC4lpzZHhpetYD.3.sjY4CUMdzQolC i_l22k_WqlFsPjutcOWseWtCuuIWR5lc.2zSlvyqvFS.d0kpCJ6AaiNbfDDLoG39si2_lYSvAvah I63o42tSVBy.KOIDrl12o62M.gBLu_M3Kgg7qWSgHU4bFY87dcbHT.k1tIHKKAI3178PXjwgfM6i j3IxTrsuHm_wFJiMWkAY5MWfUBUCVcJ7bglf_UPsAN2Cp_3pLHXAZX0_6F3UvV.Xsh14CBzKTuCI btB.F09s2jK_xRXa4RAaKobksm1J.OoXM_umIjDe3zvqjquJAY_2lSpskLLJXk2JTtkux3JREpnq _d3dBXW7aWSZYYZdSifeygACS3bID2hzaseRB1_PV3nnda7slFrsKMIonE2.h0xk38_DnHHjUf4H PxFyUvUMHFO8olLQbOLm7Xx5FpczCTu.BGWVOjFglnDiyptOF_LG0KWNYC_k8R98- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:23:02 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-9fc5746c8-8hlql (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3935ae879a92d1190a6f0dfc94ca2979; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:20:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> ("=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:04 +0100") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:20:44 +0800 Message-ID: <878rh0vc0j.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21183 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 2623 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > AFAIK icon-title-format was broken since long time ago (possibly for > several major releases) and it was fixed recently. > > I propose that its default value should be nil, and interpret that value > as "same as frame-title-format". That's why: > > 1. The case of having an specific frame title when it is iconified seems > to me as way less frequent than expecting that the frame keeps the > same title. > > 2. After upgrading to Emacs 29, users that set frame-title-format will > see how frames change their title when iconified. > > 3. There are mechanisms for applying settings or performing actions > depending on the title of a frame (KDE Window Rules and scripts based > on xdotool, for instance.) For keeping those mechanisms on a working > state with Emacs 29, the user must ensure that either it keeps > icon-title-format synced with frame-title-format and/or his scripts > must be adapted. Without that, any config that depends on the > content's of the frame title will be broken (unless the user already > set icon-title-format, but it would be surprising if he did, as that > setting had no effect until now.) > > Having a working icon-title-format, in practice, is a new feature, so > defining a new default for it shouldn't have any impact. Certainly, it > will not have a visible effect compared to recent Emacs releases. > However, keeping its current default value may cause confusion and > breakage for any user that sets frame-title-format on his config. > > The required change in code is simple enough: > > src/xdisp.c | 3 ++- > > modified src/xdisp.c > @@ -13424,7 +13424,8 @@ gui_consider_frame_title (Lisp_Object frame) >=20=20 > Fselect_window (f->selected_window, Qt); > set_buffer_internal_1 (XBUFFER (XWINDOW (f->selected_window)->cont= ents)); > - fmt =3D FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) ? Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_= format; > + fmt =3D FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) && !NILP (Vicon_title_format) ? > + Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; >=20=20 > mode_line_target =3D MODE_LINE_TITLE; > title_start =3D MODE_LINE_NOPROP_LEN (0); > > ... plus a trivial doc change on its DEFVAR_LISP and initialization. > > If this proposal is acceptable, it should be applied to Emacs 29, to > avoid putting ourselves on a similar scenario when Emacs 30 is released. I agree with this change, but please note that our coding style means you should write: fmt =3D (FRAME_ICONIFIED_P && !NILP (Vicon_title_format) ? Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format); instead. Thanks. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167637715018030 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:20:01 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 12:19:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRuH7-0004gk-Jr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:19:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46730) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRuH4-0004gD-3u for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:19:08 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRuGy-0004NL-5M; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:19:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=zj+fedZ0DJgayk+qBS1fKgPGfRD3MvRREXSC+kzocZs=; b=qDA2t0TJTQFanqCDxBxD FSX+a5bFzxzO7cqtFx4AWihn9JWi+QQXP6nPLJXtVG8aYSW3DRwwzEJpi2u3SWQlxW43qynOTOkz6 e/OTTpoltas0A+r/7SUZBAgqfD6hHEdTLSo+ZSs0hNyOULJVEbDaPrKBCQbPJcRN+q+8Own3wx5G2 afNY9TNClhJ90l1/GAxVKVoLjmffc6CYM4HfVqNA8QIrJO/fvERf193nc+kcFw10U1gVJV2oz2N2y prZCYi0L2gCGQCa7ZpR8/zfqFF55sCPeS4v09Q4Inh7HXlmk/ZO0c/QEH0PdBWHQ18bXauzYt1VTe PjaERtXv8Kjdgg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRuGv-0004vY-UW; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:18:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:18:36 +0200 Message-Id: <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:04 +0100) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Óscar Fuentes > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:04 +0100 > > > AFAIK icon-title-format was broken since long time ago (possibly for > several major releases) and it was fixed recently. > > I propose that its default value should be nil, and interpret that value > as "same as frame-title-format". That's why: > > 1. The case of having an specific frame title when it is iconified seems > to me as way less frequent than expecting that the frame keeps the > same title. > > 2. After upgrading to Emacs 29, users that set frame-title-format will > see how frames change their title when iconified. > > 3. There are mechanisms for applying settings or performing actions > depending on the title of a frame (KDE Window Rules and scripts based > on xdotool, for instance.) For keeping those mechanisms on a working > state with Emacs 29, the user must ensure that either it keeps > icon-title-format synced with frame-title-format and/or his scripts > must be adapted. Without that, any config that depends on the > content's of the frame title will be broken (unless the user already > set icon-title-format, but it would be surprising if he did, as that > setting had no effect until now.) > > Having a working icon-title-format, in practice, is a new feature, so > defining a new default for it shouldn't have any impact. Certainly, it > will not have a visible effect compared to recent Emacs releases. > However, keeping its current default value may cause confusion and > breakage for any user that sets frame-title-format on his config. > > The required change in code is simple enough: > > src/xdisp.c | 3 ++- > > modified src/xdisp.c > @@ -13424,7 +13424,8 @@ gui_consider_frame_title (Lisp_Object frame) > > Fselect_window (f->selected_window, Qt); > set_buffer_internal_1 (XBUFFER (XWINDOW (f->selected_window)->contents)); > - fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) ? Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; > + fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) && !NILP (Vicon_title_format) ? > + Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; > > mode_line_target = MODE_LINE_TITLE; > title_start = MODE_LINE_NOPROP_LEN (0); > > ... plus a trivial doc change on its DEFVAR_LISP and initialization. > > If this proposal is acceptable, it should be applied to Emacs 29, to > avoid putting ourselves on a similar scenario when Emacs 30 is released. I agree with adding a feature that will allow to keep icon-title-format and frame-title-format identical. However: . I don't want to make that the default: it's too late for such changes on the emacs-29 branch. . I suggest that the "special" value which means "use frame-title-format" will be t, not nil, so that users who want it set it explicitly, not by some omission. (Code-wise, this is not important, since the code treats both nil and t the same: it produces nothing. So using t or nil is backward-compatible, in the sense that older Emacsen will not crash.) I understand that you think the more radical change you propose is for the better, and "no one can possibly suffer of be against it", but I think you are not very objective, being a victim of the problem, and it is quite possible that someone out there does want/expect the default value to be a string. Thus, I think we should leave the change of the default value for some future release. So: okay for changing xdisp.c, just using EQ (Qt, ...), not NILP, but please don't change the default value of icon-title-format. Also, this change needs a suitable NEWS entry and appropriate changes for the doc string and the ELisp manual. Thanks. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 13:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16763817723564 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 13:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 13:36:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52904 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRvTf-0000vP-QG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:36:12 -0500 Received: from relayout02.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.202]:63631 helo=relayout02-redir.e.movistar.es) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRvTZ-0000up-RC for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:36:09 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout02.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PGMfj5VLdzdb5t; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:35:56 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes In-Reply-To: <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:18:36 +0200") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:35:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout02 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PGMfj5VLdzdb5t.AA737 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676986558.85457@nSmo1UiHZEHUSyhQoujhBA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I agree with adding a feature that will allow to keep > icon-title-format and frame-title-format identical. However: > > . I don't want to make that the default: it's too late for such > changes on the emacs-29 branch. The whole point of this change is to not break user's setup when they upgrade to 29. If the user must fix his config, he may as well set icon-title-format and be done with it. OTOH, there is no possible breakage by changing the default. > . I suggest that the "special" value which means "use > frame-title-format" will be t, not nil, so that users who want it > set it explicitly, not by some omission. The purpose of changing the default is based partly on the idea that, very likely, the user will want to keep icon-title-format in sync with frame-title-format. So not having to do anything to achieve that is a feature, not a bug. > (Code-wise, this is not > important, since the code treats both nil and t the same: it > produces nothing. So using t or nil is backward-compatible, in > the sense that older Emacsen will not crash.) > > I understand that you think the more radical change you propose is for > the better, and "no one can possibly suffer of be against it", but I > think you are not very objective, being a victim of the problem, Yes, wasting several hours made me aware of the impact this change may have. This made my judgement quite *objetive* about it :-) > and > it is quite possible that someone out there does want/expect the > default value to be a string. I have no idea how this can be. OTOH, the problems caused by the current state are obvious and real. > Thus, I think we should leave the > change of the default value for some future release. ... which, as I explained, will require another round of fixes on user's config to avoid the same problem when 30 is released. > So: okay for changing xdisp.c, just using EQ (Qt, ...), not NILP, but > please don't change the default value of icon-title-format. > > Also, this change needs a suitable NEWS entry and appropriate changes > for the doc string and the ELisp manual. If this is your final decision, it's better to discard the whole proposal, as it gives little benefit. Then, mentioning in NEWS that icon-title-format is back is even more important because of the problems mentioned. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16763840347515 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:13:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRw4A-0001x8-9C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:13:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55562) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRw49-0001wu-1k for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:13:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRw43-0004SB-7o; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:13:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=PK3zA6IS1mCJQPmaaGbr8EoZpHeXkciyArk1L8QbJ88=; b=g7rt8GWxUx+AZJ1BOlhg 38MrDBgbEO/wVEu/oU1BUlg/MrR5xqbWHXh9kaL5koQfiBQam6lLfeZw7PmPA3CnAEo7WxqLgqiqo NCB1wpwpTK7Tq8uU/uECRKBLnK9WeRq+SD/0qkXWgoBlX1uH4+vDpXJydpzPFSSwKcs/EDKUPEeJS rxl2+Jb8lMAcDjiY/i5n8kcHFy7SKtFNizedFBwwMes5TIBZepIg86MdLjaxORCWpZ4nEHhBkoZDb vLHtEKm7hjf2Xwn5r4GBZXBVxA+3MkEp8einvdNn51zR74/mQ2Zb3WNgFsIc9K5s8i4cPxyGp3NQs fT7bmd1vY7a2Fw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRw42-0008NB-Iy; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:13:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:13:24 +0200 Message-Id: <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:35:56 +0100) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Óscar Fuentes > Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:35:56 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I agree with adding a feature that will allow to keep > > icon-title-format and frame-title-format identical. However: > > > > . I don't want to make that the default: it's too late for such > > changes on the emacs-29 branch. > > The whole point of this change is to not break user's setup when they > upgrade to 29. If the user must fix his config, he may as well set > icon-title-format and be done with it. > > OTOH, there is no possible breakage by changing the default. (Famous last words.) Seriously, though: I can easily concoct a situation where this change will break someone's setup: imagine that someone's customizations expect icon-title-format to be a string. Boom! > > . I suggest that the "special" value which means "use > > frame-title-format" will be t, not nil, so that users who want it > > set it explicitly, not by some omission. > > The purpose of changing the default is based partly on the idea that, > very likely, the user will want to keep icon-title-format in sync with > frame-title-format. So not having to do anything to achieve that is a > feature, not a bug. We are mis-communicating. My point is that the value nil means "don't display this". E.g., try setting mode-line-format or frame-title-format to nil, and observe the effect. So setting it to nil could mean the user really doesn't want the title be displayed. Thus, usurping the nil value to mean "use frame-title-format instead" could be a backward-incompatible change. By contrast, I don't expect anyone to set the value to t, because doing so would require intimate knowledge of the display-engine internals (which in this case treat nil and t the same). So using t for this special purpose is better from backward-compatibility POV. It is also more logical, since the user _does_ want a title, just the "default" one. > > and it is quite possible that someone out there does want/expect > > the default value to be a string. > > I have no idea how this can be. Please believe me and my gray hair: with Emacs, anything that is just possible is usually done by someone out there. > > Thus, I think we should leave the > > change of the default value for some future release. > > ... which, as I explained, will require another round of fixes on user's > config to avoid the same problem when 30 is released. No, it won't. If the user sets icon-title-format to t, that will work with Emacs 29, and will still work if and when we make t the default value in future versions. > If this is your final decision, it's better to discard the whole > proposal, as it gives little benefit. I disagree. I think it will allow you and others in your situation to have the problem solved, while not risking breaking someone's unrelated customizations. I don't understand the urge to have it solved automagically, even for those who are affected by the changes in Emacs 29. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Po Lu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16763853129665 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:35:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53002 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwOm-0002Vo-5b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:35:12 -0500 Received: from sonic310-51.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.186.232]:37024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwOk-0002Vb-Hf for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:35:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676385305; bh=QG2D2PYPo4m/B5qosAhCwZ1zX70Tpn7ougicPQ6Dcc0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=aOb5kie3cMItDv72yKeZ4UzGlPV/BOHTYDtYQ36nGsJlU408XwmBcRc4Q8rwn56c6lv3QiQLWs+luArQaOx2H3VWf1qhgN6I9soixODPad0sobi1JZvG35B1JZTmqfW2IpvKaxX5oR66snhmOqI6WiJKK4Gpk9DN8HdeONAHIYdsIubQW5b5Yw2W7H6oyyKq9nyPmR1QhjgMJ/P2kPoXZpMrNqQBBQBd2w8vCMbdgcI9D+c7WqqLQIsPUL86cIaNuu9ILnSs/Q1GNKqsFX1AgXMRTeRLoICYaZF57drGPkrqDoT4U5NhaWov+EtiWnhHakGtosmMRe2HjTjKoBOhXQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676385305; bh=12muclfwK0HDdYC1/ozbT/FYziWpDhZ3La2QFozOBZn=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=diHr6+tNUlrkWy/4a+UehWXL1yl9oLyHKBfusjBNMMBIAHKNRawTqH4pubqM8wOdluBNz+OaNHvZ25aCzkmyC+6taciOZuKfRLK5/sN8r69WWhGrdD99/kXmIXe1vFh8SiJHRR9fUZPXms67C/gsmqNSHSTx/kI4TAxRQTpE2l7Kc8T3NAUOgzLDXGI8B10llUs9gkTXBqWGJz3Wtzsg8D8Qra8CpVm7FD0IWcANEOlBIqBNgsQtFYEUlJYvt75gybExtvMK///4wr68z0+77nbZSEHrItEK780D9z3zW78LKqZHc/g4hQLB0Z6OEjk6DO2xYQXsA4jahV97U+2OCw== X-YMail-OSG: qlnxSZIVM1mVsjGw1A8LJ6qBzbhcukUHjK3fOwU9D8_a1oaF58T7wjdknGt9OHp lOLfBSatCpbLvfQFAcOkWf2hvIbT2vXyTR3LT7SB2UD.YrUJ4g_ms1SCcVkXWrxbUH8AF6YzffPG nioZXqovT03vZBeO_ArPqBqyqJO5xEkZWVoCfMTrD.bAL06c2XohDuKGJmlyhz.zTuxBDu1F0hlI 7mNXnXpuR5afWSHEPdctBqhfq4f8FrCUkVPbialIJ_qS9IbBJP10KO5wRCsXZa4qijmDekTl1NAI OnJOxySwOCmaau5FEOROiRJAeuVpku2hm81wfGl4aPRWmaoHpTSvYyl7qpoUuC6jlxc7F4r2t.RU H54_xU59QYrCsni70qP58KmZVa6pR0P1rAXBfOUpOIG9r13Rlxw4Xdb28lMG6Lgr.ri_XtJ1hSpr tXN5pYgQWySXSDaYAnSJ4FZUJs.8GZURE8dyK22F4ds8WLyQ.R.wtH1DOtMr52dUHK26Xjew2Oky 0hAqgY2s5FtP6diE4VYn_62WBpWeZ4dme8xmg5hnh7YnwtkZ_bfcdB7QkFwLFNTZUoYqwAkHij07 eYpk8PMYuE9LjOysvIoIB9UD4v9rjgU5fWFty2az0JVPWvt_oFxvymFw2ah6tVyBNf8Bn0o7CVAw OOupydkJNuZd2WlS5dUeSssYcYPI8kuLofoIzj3FtP61l4Wm6gKt0b4a0I4FatawRBmbyMbGbXzO Gmg1gh4lgixcBHHKSZ_RryS834nEqjbzzWhKQOTB9RTs3g31Xm09KKAjoZZr3aN4B8ZkKx0Unbak BQWiMTtfXnoFMGQMx9cnGJOl0VShMwbLZckWGeQPivHrPUfHs8Vx1oOKVIJIC2g0ozhiKGxHVJx_ j66Qp6KJhs0Fgg8ePfkH.AceQQhkRuGqJzO0hZJCfxmV4u4TmKQIjD3wdH207e8kskPHzJjiV9v2 QJIoXV2F.Dy7mvPtsfnLeRfsECdr11UK5Yx.G8l1xNIsCf8WL83URVix4DTTKJwOm52p9M47GN3W .xyNWrsD2uB8TKVKbYAFmjyTZ0ZTgaH5H9Cl2skDyfOxPQz1pqivBrsZRwsfSto1Ced.bYSE0g0U d6w9VioCaeGklXDCJRCXESQyP90y4G5.hHa0hoFju3pEv2iARrxgU5cEvNTBGrQBVnH8b_kVqAPL A.BMxBrd_2L4RGoChsBXD2YtIDJfshWEUZ9zGYnDjJq0an4rqVK2Z91tIUvkGpjgeoygWl85ZLz_ R.7s7DMWgGHWsbDcTAt1hEW2VERerDYk9lsWz2T2fOcby1SLF8Nr22xDXZAulL0J8Pnzbs4wq3vh NITSEJY6XB5Bbvt6QlhfEGb_Fr2gXulPkAPELlpBqkM8bSIC3pSsqvNERfweZGJfoWkACd9wx17d KfovqiNExMuOboMtT8LoDvLwr3xijfaZAQnq0qng3EW_VYQLuA6HCobHgvKNxoX0r_DQrUJqZ7xh HaO9XAuAiJeEhf.E4dJ9t2iv_YNHJAXmFTH_nvMCJnm3MRRk6vS53W7o7wBoaRAxL0CK9ror6Mmc fnteLjeLw8WxV8I6Kpdbmcj8oSaDT7u.bmlZxGarYQ25d5BMizL8yiSxvNhQsF457RBOHl4xdjTO YHjkd_TyVwdWCrIZfWp.WbvUBD7YTtFJ_qFfylxYuJoVGmALTlMoqawykn_BtLCMIFxZK8zugkDb qdylukIlzIbKtJVTpWmU9MhphZ2xmCvGG_qyFEUaoJcRxVM4Sj3YhSConXoN3VyeMn62KoO1IsBI QLdubO7r7u4JBN5G39ZGowC8sf5JzqlcHxfSLSee9ogWRQbRULBLoGzEU8EE3sy.GflWdx1.MMOJ FgdUzcrUNswaNLuj55my0ZH4v21.ldmshKEGsLyRbNevKTYHzd7INRqA8yAWVN2KWZbsg5XPXV_X iguMa76nuEot0gN_gCrrDB0tcaFHowI.RRccYFiDtphe8wKStC1UHLchz0KK9x4bfM9l79jDa0xg G.rrKPn.wQoeCnSeILPnwMxaR.DDaArAaO1B5VSFovJG39Onk.fTA_z6IgpRNBsTwRpZHR1zeche PwsH9GhzbeUw.kSKyfCR4IwNoJs9hCAUqdxa0LyOyXHTSlLZskKDM1Rvb4TZEfut7UvSlf7EzisV oSDAva9Q2V161pfhkpXCExIENrGgS.hs6.Sg4Sdzfwoy2BIrD_3pDdm2pUUk_ff_dm4XCrZ_G2gh wQCdyf3aAC6NMy0SspkBSP5qkpwRRD1PZIRwIm_YNTxAhc6DYl2Yc_OA3LpV42nKFoFM- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:35:05 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-9fc5746c8-qs9hb (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 331da6876682447e098fd47bd3bfbfbc; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:33:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:13:24 +0200") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 22:32:42 +0800 Message-ID: <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21183 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 290 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) BTW, for the record: icon-title-format stopped working after some Emacs 24.x release, and was only fixed in Emacs 29. I don't know if that's relevant or not. I have no opinion as to the arguments you or Oscar have presented, as I have not yet read them, but I am in favor of his change. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Po Lu Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167638578610502 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:43:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53031 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwWP-0002jK-LR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:43:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwWN-0002ip-Nb for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:43:04 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwWH-0007kL-WD; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:42:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=VT0yFQjcQVXgAkDTjVbNkOJoxExCELMq2eqdbFpggRw=; b=Y+XoG3qNAdxuksjq5S6Q 34XSc3v38+SpssgZ5dq+PmP47GT3Gtcxu/zL0yejhSALUr4JAPimtSOP1xRAZxgJ7lLf6zzM5tXJz N9BZP3YesEQpQSx9ETihJxW3vehEj7EDM0ir+3f4oicc6lASn9jB9w9PgNWVV4zpFEM6+BVgOK8cc EG4+8s4lUdBi3YtWP9ta2RL+pb1pHApnmuCfUTErvOlfmtcsVy018b5UVNUi+zCPkatj01TLKxvm5 kG/xTc3PPzkuFQGkZPl+3R8TTo8Zg5Tzgiw17BKPpjIk8LJO5v0c8Hq9kVd2ZextzbVoJbD9qsKAN l5Vt714SdC6iHA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwWG-0007Gv-SY; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:42:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:42:36 +0200 Message-Id: <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 22:32:42 +0800) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu > Cc: Óscar Fuentes , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 22:32:42 +0800 > > BTW, for the record: > > icon-title-format stopped working after some Emacs 24.x release, and was > only fixed in Emacs 29. > > I don't know if that's relevant or not. I have no opinion as to the > arguments you or Oscar have presented, as I have not yet read them, but > I am in favor of his change. I'm not opposed to the change, I just asked for minor changes in some details of the change. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167638626111582 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:51:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:51:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe4-00030j-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:01 -0500 Received: from relayout03.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.203]:49285 helo=relayout03-redir.e.movistar.es) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe3-00030U-4U for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:50:59 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout03.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PGPK51cBzzMm64; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:50:48 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes In-Reply-To: <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:13:24 +0200") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:50:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87ilg4qp14.fsf@telefonica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout03 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PGPK51cBzzMm64.A1514 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676991052.56203@IrfxQlzoag8or7HB7i2XfQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > . I suggest that the "special" value which means "use >> > frame-title-format" will be t, not nil, so that users who want it >> > set it explicitly, not by some omission. >> >> The purpose of changing the default is based partly on the idea that, >> very likely, the user will want to keep icon-title-format in sync with >> frame-title-format. So not having to do anything to achieve that is a >> feature, not a bug. > > We are mis-communicating. My point is that the value nil means "don't > display this". E.g., try setting mode-line-format or > frame-title-format to nil, and observe the effect. I don't object to use `t' instead of `nil'. I object to leaving the default as is. >> > and it is quite possible that someone out there does want/expect >> > the default value to be a string. >> >> I have no idea how this can be. > > Please believe me and my gray hair: with Emacs, anything that is just > possible is usually done by someone out there. You already have a real case of a broken setup (mine). Furthermore, the people that depend on the contents of the window title to automate things on their machines are the most likely to set frame-title-format, and thus it is practically guaranteed that having a working icon-title-format on its current incarnation will be problematic for them. >> If this is your final decision, it's better to discard the whole >> proposal, as it gives little benefit. > > I disagree. I think it will allow you and others in your situation to > have the problem solved, icon-title-format already broke my customization, and I already fixed it on my .emacs.el. This is not about me, it is about avoiding the pain I went through to others. > while not risking breaking someone's > unrelated customizations. I don't understand the urge to have it > solved automagically, even for those who are affected by the changes > in Emacs 29. This is about a real group of users for which this issue can cause lots of disruption and frustration (Emacs' window title switching to the contents of icon-title-format when the user jumps to other virtual desktop is far from obvious) vs an hypothetical group of users that somehow put on their config an effectless variable on a way that causes the interpreter to throw an error on their face. For which group do you expect more bug reports? From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Po Lu , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167638665315763 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:58:01 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:57:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwkO-00046B-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:57:32 -0500 Received: from relayout01-redir.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.201]:38751) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwkN-00045u-6f for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:57:31 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout01.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PGPSf4xJ0zfZHF; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes In-Reply-To: <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:42:36 +0200") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100 Message-ID: <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout01 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PGPSf4xJ0zfZHF.A69C5 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676991444.34936@tpK/h7j0zw/K6O3lhCcxNg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> BTW, for the record: >> >> icon-title-format stopped working after some Emacs 24.x release, and was >> only fixed in Emacs 29. >> >> I don't know if that's relevant or not. I have no opinion as to the >> arguments you or Oscar have presented, as I have not yet read them, but >> I am in favor of his change. > > I'm not opposed to the change, I just asked for minor changes in some > details of the change. The core of my proposal, is changing icon-title-format's default, so users (and external scripts!) will keep observing the same behavior after upgrading to 29. My understanding is that you opposed this change in defaults. If I'm wrong about this, my apologies. OTOH, I think that what Po just said speak volumes about the abundance and importance of icon-title-format on user's config. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167639583530566 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 17:30:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8U-0007ww-Q2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8T-0007wj-4B for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:33 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8M-0000No-EX; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=urXScp2UE7SXPpOJ5WKEyfOAQIuMEkrKQn9Fzj6oA9g=; b=KUVKC5AQsjm3T4ECpkde QqSrw17eauyhF7B0FJGvRZF5IEhs/mAlSyjxkgM+/GmnjSbdtnzqraNECIFsLdsjBYwY+upLXIZpi 8mp60RVmqY5m/5GgVeRhZNoAFE9jrnEf0AM3dSynUKDi+xIZ93FdTkYF0sulamm3Yml+Mew5+Whbl maRqzkWp4HRMAkPrVbbV4e3a/NNiotBuq3R5fEpwCxI34nufk70OMKI/W3RJdPGn9Hm9Qwxphl77q 4ETTHyKylDeNMXOIv38r1DRaOSxK683dTWgFTNQQsfJFM6+vpSndWAbGlEYI7q096RICWkR908ZON UlxWM5SxpJVIIg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8K-0006Ea-3i; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 19:29:54 +0200 Message-Id: <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Óscar Fuentes > Cc: Po Lu , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> BTW, for the record: > >> > >> icon-title-format stopped working after some Emacs 24.x release, and was > >> only fixed in Emacs 29. > >> > >> I don't know if that's relevant or not. I have no opinion as to the > >> arguments you or Oscar have presented, as I have not yet read them, but > >> I am in favor of his change. > > > > I'm not opposed to the change, I just asked for minor changes in some > > details of the change. > > The core of my proposal, is changing icon-title-format's default, so > users (and external scripts!) will keep observing the same behavior > after upgrading to 29. I can't believe that we are actually making such a fuss about asking the affected users to add a single line to their init files: (setq icon-title-format t) At times, bugfixes end up producing backward-incompatible behavior, and when that happens, we call those cases out in NEWS and tell users how to unbreak whatever could be broken by the changes. Why cannot that be done in this case? Please understand: the change you propose, at the 95th minute, _is_ backward-incompatible. You argue that no one could possibly not want such a change, but I have too much gray hair from watching such assumptions and firm opinions defeated by the bitter reality to believe this. The only relatively reliable judge is user feedback, and we don't have time to wait for that for Emacs 29. So I cannot agree to what you propose, and urge you to see the dangers. But if you think the change in Emacs 29 behavior in this aspect is so grave, we could instead revert that change on emacs-29, leaving icon-title-format broken as it was since Emacs 24, and leave the fix only on master. Then on master we could perhaps change the default more easily. > OTOH, I think that what Po just said speak volumes about the abundance > and importance of icon-title-format on user's config. Granted, I took his opinion into account. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16765658562427 (code B ref 61496); Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:45:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2023 16:44:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pShMl-0000d5-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:44:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35906) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pShMk-0000cs-A3 for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:44:14 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pShMe-0000pg-Ct; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:44:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=o6rLEHJageqaGTNWJgJa40MRpIC4utMET6JO+oUl9gc=; b=geNKs/Su0am/ 3UqqNxxKbTfdeD7MHMCs4jkJK+1FLYTgQazYgZXb+TP2DB3Aqpf2I7sXNRPrvVjRnvfsWbxvkzqmx xZQTY8WgHiEj14S+f2QKCX0W3bcATOhuPoAP+CsbKXRcbWtzkvB5GJfyBGy1AaisolLV31JP2BpdZ 2TZS7RmssA//dj7PfBR0B7g3VQOnVLrpecPoo3dzIh5I+qCwhjibqpRHOb+ZorPkij2VWKjX4Ll24 xltu0wYyMPRy7sPeaiG4UEh/xFGPnfNe9hkGJMNuA8Mezc94/HTs0ara0aZCy8r1MnSmEl0ylygzD hkTX0H0USOUOCsomrJInRw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pShMd-00067e-6g; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 11:44:08 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 18:44:03 +0200 Message-Id: <83lekx36i4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:23:20 +0100) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Jonas Bernoulli > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:23:20 +0100 > > A day after this discussion began, I opened a duplicate of sorts > (bug#61538). Eli asked me to express my opinion here. Thanks for chiming in. > 2. Apparently icon-frame-title was broken since 24.x. Reading this > thread I assumed that means that variable was just ignored. But I > just experimented with these variables in 28.2 and they both appear > to behave as documented. > > Before I can really form an opinion on whether the default should > be changed in 29.1 or 30.1, I need you to tell me how the behavior > changed from 28.2 to 29.0.60. I, too, thought this was fixed only for Emacs 29, but maybe I misunderstood. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16765673685515 (code B ref 61496); Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2023 17:09:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37557 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pShlA-0001Qt-At for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:09:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pShl7-0001Qb-D0 for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:09:27 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pShl1-0005eL-Pg; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:09:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=EEruXFglScMjYhUZhMb/PrqL2yueDZe5zyZitO02vdI=; b=TfeFwQcfqhwEDwOu1jF2 z7ILbnmfgQJaKQHM1ysCjwqY9yLbC28W8XOdE/eNus9FxMrfXXoHx3Ve/2grrN50ggtCoPFnb+88c +oMEMEOx73d72uJw+aHTK9lvqNtRNroIUQrOiMaxEMbirQsCDwBF0X8VxLYO4tHVP3L5OXLi6kb4N JPBP10OodNLhqyooBtiMvnvUiY7Ku56HW0vEJbgtIbIYY2+bH5gRRNJLH2vSbaEl+LLsoQ8IgZGSS HgyBp/I4QKsotY8CqRVbALRnGfNzGlVRCgkmFllEJhO4D42Dljs8liroI8H9uFmqZzVp/PC1hDiAr rZftVWEuSItIzg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pShl0-0006Ad-Uo; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:09:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:09:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83h6vl35c4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:23:20 +0100) References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [Forwarding message by Jonas to the bug tracker] > From: Jonas Bernoulli > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:23:20 +0100 > > A day after this discussion began, I opened a duplicate of sorts > (bug#61538). Eli asked me to express my opinion here. > > I was inclined to agree with Óscar after reading this discussion, but > after experimenting a bit, I am not so sure anymore. > > 1. I have not actually experienced a regression. I was happy to use the > default values for icon- and frame-title-format for a long time (I > used the uniquify package to display a bit more information than just > the nondirectory part of the filename). It is a coincidence that I > just now decided that I want to instead use the absolute filename as > the frame title but continue to display some abbreviation in the > mode-line. > > 2. Apparently icon-frame-title was broken since 24.x. Reading this > thread I assumed that means that variable was just ignored. But I > just experimented with these variables in 28.2 and they both appear > to behave as documented. > > Before I can really form an opinion on whether the default should > be changed in 29.1 or 30.1, I need you to tell me how the behavior > changed from 28.2 to 29.0.60. > > I think the default for icon-frame-title should be "the same as for > frames that are not iconified" and that should be expressed using t as > the value. As far as I currently understand it, that would be a change > in behavior. > From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, Jonas Bernoulli , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167659621824494 (code B ref 61496); Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2023 01:10:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38059 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSpGT-0006Mz-Cn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:10:17 -0500 Received: from relayout03.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.203]:35669 helo=relayout03-redir.e.movistar.es) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSpGR-0006Mi-E6 for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 20:10:16 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout03.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PHtyk48DLzMlJx; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:10:05 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes In-Reply-To: <83h6vl35c4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:09:15 +0200") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> <83h6vl35c4.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:10:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87sff5p05u.fsf@telefonica.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout03 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PHtyk48DLzMlJx.AC208 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1677201008.97991@fXE1go4+XmNbGNJNkA7dKA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > [Forwarding message by Jonas to the bug tracker] > >> From: Jonas Bernoulli >> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:23:20 +0100 >>=20 >> A day after this discussion began, I opened a duplicate of sorts >> (bug#61538). Eli asked me to express my opinion here. >>=20 >> I was inclined to agree with =C3=93scar after reading this discussion, b= ut >> after experimenting a bit, I am not so sure anymore. >>=20 >> 1. I have not actually experienced a regression. I was happy to use the >> default values for icon- and frame-title-format for a long time (I >> used the uniquify package to display a bit more information than just >> the nondirectory part of the filename). It is a coincidence that I >> just now decided that I want to instead use the absolute filename as >> the frame title but continue to display some abbreviation in the >> mode-line. >>=20 >> 2. Apparently icon-frame-title was broken since 24.x. Reading this >> thread I assumed that means that variable was just ignored. But I >> just experimented with these variables in 28.2 and they both appear >> to behave as documented. That's not what I observe here: $ src/emacs -Q C-u M-x version GNU Emacs 28.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16= .0) of 2023-02-17 (setq icon-title-format "hello") C-l (force redisplay, just in case) After minimizing the frame with the mouse or pressing C-z, the text on KDE taskbar does not change. Doing the same in 29 the text changes. >> Before I can really form an opinion on whether the default should >> be changed in 29.1 or 30.1, I need you to tell me how the behavior >> changed from 28.2 to 29.0.60. >>=20 >> I think the default for icon-frame-title should be "the same as for >> frames that are not iconified" and that should be expressed using t as >> the value. As far as I currently understand it, that would be a change >> in behavior. Well, if icon-frame-title worked, changing its default would indeed be a change in behavior, but if it is true that it was broken since ~24, the act of simply fixing it *is* a change in behavior (as we both experienced) respect to the previous 4 major releases. The argument about breaking the configs that require icon-title-format to be a string is too hypothetical, IMAO, apart from being easy to detect and fix by the user. My guess is that icon-title-format was implemented for the benefit of the users of certain desktop environments that, instead of minimizing a frame (window) to a taskbar, they literally iconified the window, with little horizontal space for the title below the icon and, probably, difficulty to tell apart the iconified-but-running application from the rest of icons on the desktop, so icon-title-format was quite handy. Nowadays, taskbars either provide lots of room for a title or don't show the title at all, so the need for icon-title-format is less pressing, as demonstrated by the absence of bug reports about it being broken until Po noticed it by chance. I'm not saying that it is bad to have that feature, though. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Resent-From: Po Lu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Jonas Bernoulli Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.16766021832238 (code B ref 61496); Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2023 02:49:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSqoh-0000a2-5f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 21:49:43 -0500 Received: from sonic314-49.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.175]:33046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSqof-0000Zm-E1 for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 21:49:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676602174; bh=SIl9AwVxgwUoX64a1gUczUQbDb62JrODNt0RJN2ke8Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=oi7EVPFjEzHje9LtbCeY2G67C9kqr/G5lDJYjBzaz9Kq3ri36DQ1wxs4+n5Drrf61MDqwvhSZxFyuFlmX+B9QsqTTDjeLHInZoVCw7KwIHD0PXkZF5MklrbXWH1g5rWpQkkhVDa8+i6ARkwXC3vmAdWStZcazpA6FXVeFunOxOz3Tf1BQ2SwLucojVs4ZWmdwY53u3vPECLhw8RkSyFaUd2H5LxgDmacWDDQeKaTBJKaLi2E/22jNK7xjSuokJp1jQnUws8vbij2kYWPw8twwzH2zF0UCjraSiS5/LmzuEa4zFDK4Uin1ektGYtN8uRS6om2FlPwbn//SpKt5jtYTA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1676602174; bh=BgoThmiNzol5CxfwsYAb2GMADVZevRMnbYdOsPJ9kDv=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=kTwkYs3gC2rbSImTIxabsgvbhFPzXgGVgi3WHsPYowhtPBCZZk+DB0tBnaDIdRAnxe63NOiq+X6JeLsz2Ax0bgOHvv+UhKjcTgXJO40N8kCzkpHofpqu1rzF46bC+uo/OgDJEcaGbsvKa+DSQtAjMLy1kqb+xYQIE1+6Wmv208JBKmDYAA8FGRdDEtVkjYaVNNpscyB7DVTr+TxBUKw+pU826QcZ4kJJ1boWxdd/XJVmYrOd25L6CY+SQ5io6BzJ5cIH1fQ4OfOn2LX0K6fwhQpyUQ/DzNKSplR/kFvPI9k1oOtt7Dukq6DukIzOr+kQPZ2YiJkA26wYs0VowZ1Egw== X-YMail-OSG: m0XWDa8VM1mlRSCtpjR0xVh.lvm0V9PRaXuErwT0SUjju2USNenmDZ7kBaGz_OD SzbnpJi.6zAOldpi6.6_XZywdN9aReYTQ_PLA3053L0an52QqhCSRGWAErxU9pdzOvOMQKRb5F8k VIwo9TLWGAnm3zbaF3QhXi_h74xFbIEigQmimmgMFwj_Y1SOwfPJdkIx2a6WizfaE_9yqZhhnviM AvdLE96k.A2BFimHBvXlbWvf8njKfxMugQc79sOi0ILC_YK5gisMx9_ryjHEeHRfQmbsWzi.FUs7 dejryf6UTul_HT6bIH3UzDY34RfftLHCjsuZusKoZx6H9S4qknSEw3RKwWJ50Nzgpqbjist35Lfy WyRCGV6abCt6DKE7vQIX8aHt1meFaRaXyAx0gt6V8zN8S79goZlO.r12JpVvJZN7ycN.LM6mcAYM owdLeEot_lB3Wx9XWxADfdtOzymo3YLu3NfiV8JOGjd_4wgqwBAL9wdlqn4jTlZr_dXkzg.ashOF scMOlSbobW4oTgP_lNSDRVld8fsazmA2VGmVe4gq7k7Is.si631MExqcDEb0PvlwV6uipe0GvBkd e91eoDq3WmtD9M3RGRKukGJwJxVpP2I3L63u4H2jxwVrGiy0BmVa2DoPwUDT5.JtTw13WWKf_lgm nYzQOikQhD1r4rvhldqC2jv5GOD4AfrDIQ84EFYx37URzDbYFi7TNGiacd2WPHpmtzBdUeZN.5UV vS4zIXZACzk2ObmnlPaaNyx45W48YFYj0DiCcBBaAmqzWstMe6JnmUq9Ur2i_NR6mb42VR7jUoe_ n6_gQohaLv0x4KpYb5cXqWmoo4DsM12vLl.KewxsE5Gwu246iZyOvLTKGZi4eHsEm3sZ3hCVynQm YasAi7h63xpBoKe3643SNOzqmplmlv9nNxHoE3FwRBn0OR1Cn.6u1YMffu2QdSdDyZ1XVTvhuvh4 yKnoFmdfwtAbhpMSgHGGfN6c4CKZ0NMipd47uVw73qlyhaSY2ESo_S4ubwovcUzqbqgsEGTHPBLX d7.m8Flz34uOytgermz54cR62DhTQtTjnxqgaAHyJdgBg6k.qCaWR2fhJKhNGfFw2W43ue3fTjYr mA0C1u8DFqKufA7LjB.NT9C6K6DowoH0uhVeRO1mNNuDjLuUmzk2aKdS9FtnGa92S_qdqkQTq8uP px3ljTwUCqdmUEymFMQgI0Qc6WbuUslRmyPa1PCnTo4UntW4Va4J5PdKvsk1rQM6EvKE_1N.wO0Q cnxhz.szA.MJDHfg6EYe1SVDJRxW4pM9L72eI7RgmcvgkQKxt5XdJCS0eOBXpuDq16dipVl5wph4 MAbu_xAOfBgDgs_A4lcMCs_QHJ5kOSrlq2BgK6KjizAD9wGKqrpAYMt_hLz9ysIMnUScQj6I3dCc eUbZJU0.4ub4pl7jc9EzRJFe2VHO4myJK8ssdxAk_9YuWrqeAn4Szeuuz2YcuTtbtIh0fmv6wy8v 9TeHbb.ubiYgSEoKabsjiC3W9jIEo0Y2qimUOk3dFZ75c7bk_jaFvzD_dq9rZuWTHE0pby3joqBy Xsx5cpddley0OP0PYXQeEwHFg0JaLHiEr1FUpiX459e8pvxMqZuE7YrD.Yt8o.PbTFBc2P8YelCu iUE1naRgapcWPH9hRXHHZhMTuou0M5HBpd_pUKg5Ahaamm8f0gwz84E7AXxak2PDw1OBU8zT1Q1Q fmomRb..BtSrDwQ2ho_nAWlFGntHkHo1TAoyPDB7inoSheiWcPccZc1RbWuny.QTgjJoRcAN3VWI uByJgcws8MaWAYAWg9ViYcDNz18DDm8jBy5.Di7x2jXgRNKmIHy_EkOcqeWYP2FpcDJ3XP8nGOuH FgvSs9xNOvNHAzKKJhihYvLU157YbfIz0O2UmRsmrQhMMdBbycEtA72ulNUefdcS0bYumgzdxi.Y gcZ26pQ0dHhKoh49BoCMGglTbOzX7ndemNdzP5HDOAqJO_ZFl2KB8Gs_5QcX0JOrCXopCrWOTvfa lDHgQXBKW9Q9zNVRqE80nH9Rx.FE4p72i05TgIdWOPrU8DE__Y1byfdF7jHvRgYNvYH2dDAiHaAA _XbIhiBGgh0TNaGfl51vSba9mHF3m1Mgaf8QBghYlv2ZkaL4FLbati76DEwNDDHdnKMDLBGwIOH7 lSYZlMM2t0UKA2pD6h94gsVucWNIpXRCXkaGN6N29mlWet_9uKCJ0fpBTnFmjcPYPY1_CwgZMBZf b7pUPYvGrAfdvJjFlO_rLlFP7.JdBpZiUe0uYqOq8uW94mp4vwSBfRoFFDjLz.zMJTDA- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:49:34 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-9fc5746c8-z4gft (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f3f9084e07aed1f868677e127d4a92d8; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:47:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <87sff5p05u.fsf@telefonica.net> ("=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:10:05 +0100") References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> <83h6vl35c4.fsf@gnu.org> <87sff5p05u.fsf@telefonica.net> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:47:14 +0800 Message-ID: <87v8k1nh3h.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21183 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1096 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > My guess is that icon-title-format was implemented for the benefit of > the users of certain desktop environments that, instead of minimizing a > frame (window) to a taskbar, they literally iconified the window, with > little horizontal space for the title below the icon and, probably, > difficulty to tell apart the iconified-but-running application from the > rest of icons on the desktop, so icon-title-format was quite handy. > Nowadays, taskbars either provide lots of room for a title or don't show > the title at all, so the need for icon-title-format is less pressing, as > demonstrated by the absence of bug reports about it being broken until > Po noticed it by chance. Indeed, another feature that has been broken for even longer is the ability to set a real bitmap icon for the icon window. I will eventually get around to fixing that. I guess no post-2000 window manager even displays icon windows any more. As for why it works for Jonas, I'm not sure. Maybe his window manager somehow convinced Emacs to redisplay the title bar. From unknown Mon Aug 18 18:01:35 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Subject: bug#61496: closed (Re: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format) Message-ID: References: <83wn4g20qo.fsf@gnu.org> <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 61496 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 07:47:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1676620022-21648-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1676620022-21648-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 61496@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 61496: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D61496 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1676620022-21648-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 61496-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2023 07:46:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSvRj-0005bz-TZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:46:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41290) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSvRi-0005bf-5J for 61496-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:46:19 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSvRb-0005KC-8Q; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:46:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=sblpelshNRm7i8/a9br4ULZmyRljQ07felU8mgnf6j8=; b=FLcZJg8HqfZ/BrjOPwGU 50KuUajgDIXMDbit52/CUJ2dz1ilL+L/BqGAZ9Lf5Z5tHHDJWLBfUt3ERXM9VPMeZ9xnOvNjWPvXj xsqjQMBsixR9xRWkGbBl0PRKmqyOL11MqGeOPf1hnt32avA31zARoVtm/owujXfCHMP4W5FjV5oFR 3/t9mCb7XwLueSF8vnYJvXk0jrKLWrwF2/SaTz3szqI4qciCprdCd9IRtLASyAghREbc99Yr7dfj9 6z3jpGVBov5BxcYnwqttHJ7b2uIvxywFppSqPWNd8p9p3aZmHBze3Rcq1gC8x2IfWYDoj4ZpKoAWi hFA0TXtBiC/oKA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSvRY-0006ti-VD; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 02:46:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:46:07 +0200 Message-Id: <83wn4g20qo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <87v8k1nh3h.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:47:14 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7pto9zb.fsf@bernoul.li> <83h6vl35c4.fsf@gnu.org> <87sff5p05u.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v8k1nh3h.fsf@yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61496-done Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, jonas@bernoul.li, 61496-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Jonas Bernoulli , > 61496@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:47:14 +0800 > > Óscar Fuentes writes: > > > My guess is that icon-title-format was implemented for the benefit of > > the users of certain desktop environments that, instead of minimizing a > > frame (window) to a taskbar, they literally iconified the window, with > > little horizontal space for the title below the icon and, probably, > > difficulty to tell apart the iconified-but-running application from the > > rest of icons on the desktop, so icon-title-format was quite handy. > > Nowadays, taskbars either provide lots of room for a title or don't show > > the title at all, so the need for icon-title-format is less pressing, as > > demonstrated by the absence of bug reports about it being broken until > > Po noticed it by chance. > > Indeed, another feature that has been broken for even longer is the > ability to set a real bitmap icon for the icon window. I will > eventually get around to fixing that. > > I guess no post-2000 window manager even displays icon windows any more. > > As for why it works for Jonas, I'm not sure. Maybe his window manager > somehow convinced Emacs to redisplay the title bar. I think we've said about this issue everything that can be said. So I've now installed the change which allows icon-title-format to be t (but leaving the default as it was), and updated the documentation accordingly. (While at that, I've also found and fixed some inaccuracies in description of the effects of the 'title' and 'name' frame parameters and their effect on the frame's title.) With that, I'm closing this bug. ------------=_1676620022-21648-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 00:02:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51997 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilz-0004al-Cg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:15 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilx-0004ac-Q0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilx-00029X-L8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:13 -0500 Received: from relayout01.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.201] helo=relayout01-redir.e.movistar.es) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRilv-0005Sn-KZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:02:13 -0500 Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout01.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PG1bf3L58zfc11 for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:05 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout01 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PG1bf3L58zfc11.AF478 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676937726.81287@W1ji6Whv1ozkxBaiw5QVcQ X-Spam-Status: No Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=86.109.101.201; envelope-from=ofv@wanadoo.es; helo=relayout01-redir.e.movistar.es X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) AFAIK icon-title-format was broken since long time ago (possibly for several major releases) and it was fixed recently. I propose that its default value should be nil, and interpret that value as "same as frame-title-format". That's why: 1. The case of having an specific frame title when it is iconified seems to me as way less frequent than expecting that the frame keeps the same title. 2. After upgrading to Emacs 29, users that set frame-title-format will see how frames change their title when iconified. 3. There are mechanisms for applying settings or performing actions depending on the title of a frame (KDE Window Rules and scripts based on xdotool, for instance.) For keeping those mechanisms on a working state with Emacs 29, the user must ensure that either it keeps icon-title-format synced with frame-title-format and/or his scripts must be adapted. Without that, any config that depends on the content's of the frame title will be broken (unless the user already set icon-title-format, but it would be surprising if he did, as that setting had no effect until now.) Having a working icon-title-format, in practice, is a new feature, so defining a new default for it shouldn't have any impact. Certainly, it will not have a visible effect compared to recent Emacs releases. However, keeping its current default value may cause confusion and breakage for any user that sets frame-title-format on his config. The required change in code is simple enough: src/xdisp.c | 3 ++- modified src/xdisp.c @@ -13424,7 +13424,8 @@ gui_consider_frame_title (Lisp_Object frame) Fselect_window (f->selected_window, Qt); set_buffer_internal_1 (XBUFFER (XWINDOW (f->selected_window)->contents)); - fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) ? Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; + fmt = FRAME_ICONIFIED_P (f) && !NILP (Vicon_title_format) ? + Vicon_title_format : Vframe_title_format; mode_line_target = MODE_LINE_TITLE; title_start = MODE_LINE_NOPROP_LEN (0); ... plus a trivial doc change on its DEFVAR_LISP and initialization. If this proposal is acceptable, it should be applied to Emacs 29, to avoid putting ourselves on a similar scenario when Emacs 30 is released. ------------=_1676620022-21648-1--