From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:03:26 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#61183 <61183@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#61183 <61183@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual Reply-To: bug#61183 <61183@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 06:03:26 +0000 retitle 61183 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual reassign 61183 emacs submitter 61183 Juri Linkov severity 61183 normal tag 61183 patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 30 12:31:35 2023 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2023 17:31:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMY0E-0000rk-R6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:31:35 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59570) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMY09-0000rM-3z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:31:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMY08-00046s-Tb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:31:28 -0500 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMY07-0007ip-Dl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:31:28 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9BEE7240005 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 17:31:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual Organization: LINKOV.NET Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:19:56 +0200 Message-ID: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.193; envelope-from=juri@linkov.net; helo=relay1-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Tags: patch This patch adds describe-repeat-maps to the Info manual: ``` diff --git a/doc/emacs/basic.texi b/doc/emacs/basic.texi index 2cc45a8805e..849647664b7 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/basic.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/basic.texi @@ -887,6 +887,7 @@ Repeating subsequent @kbd{z} repeats it once again. @findex repeat-mode +@findex describe-repeat-maps @vindex repeat-exit-key @vindex repeat-exit-timeout Also you can activate @code{repeat-mode} that temporarily enables a @@ -895,11 +896,11 @@ Repeating @kbd{C-x u C-x u} to undo many changes, @kbd{C-x o o} instead of @kbd{C-x o C-x o} to switch several windows, @kbd{C-x @{ @{ @} @} ^ ^ v v} to resize the selected window interactively, @kbd{M-g n n p p} to -navigate @code{next-error} matches, and @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate -through pages. Any other key exits transient mode and then is -executed normally. The user option @code{repeat-exit-key} defines an -additional key to exit this transient mode. Also it's possible to -break the repetition chain automatically after some idle time by -customizing the user option @code{repeat-exit-timeout} to specify the -idle time in seconds after which this transient mode will be turned -off. +navigate @code{next-error} matches, @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate +through pages, and other listed in @code{describe-repeat-maps}. +Any other key exits transient mode and then is executed normally. The +user option @code{repeat-exit-key} defines an additional key to exit +this transient mode. Also it's possible to break the repetition chain +automatically after some idle time by customizing the user option +@code{repeat-exit-timeout} to specify the idle time in seconds after +which this transient mode will be turned off. ``` From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 30 12:59:59 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2023 17:59:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYRj-0001lv-E6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:59:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYRh-0001lc-78 for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:59:57 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYRb-0006iJ-BU; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:59:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=S/Ir1e37ydthJ5GeRcL2G9JhsOZlpNFloFOjp2qSFWM=; b=KAWwpIJ+v8Xc zWKeZteuQsmxzWVSgaq3h3yBe5PcbdWGlhp8yn7r6JnJGGHs9qPkWTFg0ay41obpaIC8bAXy823Y5 Zx1+dJUr/cwyqv7I3PPll9zkfm171MFKtRGLOXfaYQmuobnPj7+VyhyROVLzNwX0cm1dcsnQ/yVbq F7IVpxrGYY6fZreralutqQKPNlAI/kPWcQRUqLFjR8CVBlGanyMhyAL4lvlAhZL8tCJpYoI1rXCrv a/iOodJFtim13aGmrlJnl5Y+xiMwnnNbm7d15a2nhLvzIDmKZVeWeUFQn381H5dSIw/NzDEAuO/79 rAHi38zNTrQqWn6KOBICuA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYRa-0002Br-Qv; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:59:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:59:44 +0200 Message-Id: <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:19:56 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:19:56 +0200 > > This patch adds describe-repeat-maps to the Info manual: Thanks. > +navigate @code{next-error} matches, @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate > +through pages, and other listed in @code{describe-repeat-maps}. "and other commands", I presume? Also, saying that commands are "listed in" a function sounds awkwardly; I guess you meant in the window shown by describe-repeat-maps instead? And finally, I think this is insufficient to document describe-repeat-maps, because its output is not very self-explanatory. I actually have difficulty understanding what it wants to tell me. The heading line says A list of keymaps used by commands with the symbol property `repeat-map' which isn't a user-level information. This is followed by keymap names and some bindings in each keymap. What is the user supposed to understand from that? I think we lack some short introductory text immediately after the heading. Or maybe the manual should have some more detailed explanation of what that command shows. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 30 13:13:56 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2023 18:13:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50425 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYfE-0002G5-08 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:13:56 -0500 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:49207) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMYfC-0002Fl-Le for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:13:54 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 516FBC0005; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:13:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual In-Reply-To: <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:59:44 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:10:53 +0200 Message-ID: <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> +navigate @code{next-error} matches, @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate >> +through pages, and other listed in @code{describe-repeat-maps}. > > "and other commands", I presume? This is what I already tried, but noticed that it's talking about key sequences. But "other key sequences" looks awkward too. > Also, saying that commands are "listed in" a function sounds > awkwardly; I guess you meant in the window shown by > describe-repeat-maps instead? Maybe simply "listed by describe-repeat-maps"? > And finally, I think this is insufficient to document > describe-repeat-maps, because its output is not very > self-explanatory. I actually have difficulty understanding what it > wants to tell me. The heading line says > > A list of keymaps used by commands with the symbol property `repeat-map' > > which isn't a user-level information. This is followed by keymap > names and some bindings in each keymap. What is the user supposed to > understand from that? I think we lack some short introductory text > immediately after the heading. Or maybe the manual should have some > more detailed explanation of what that command shows. Its output is easy to understand for anyone who uses this feature and just wants to check what commands are already supported. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 30 13:36:42 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2023 18:36:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50512 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMZ1G-0002v4-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:36:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55106) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMZ1E-0002us-UI for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:36:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMZ18-0002bd-Tt; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:36:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=WqYZFKgIy4ucReZ+KMlCkUFDgIzPzhxr2j1mnm5Uevc=; b=BiJj4ioY3kRwADf2tS7l qhWM2jEe9fysoCe2xLBiKgHi5R3OCn07iAjnRkyWb/j5aI+xMjEenjEEAW+KzAne1B3B4xS9jtq1i PyyFZwKKnyMyswp8/I1YjfF74Tm90IMbgx2w5T5pIPRPnTQiqGUpq8VOF1hnnYiAbw0Kxh+9fgANt nPq6a+xzk+fcTR+lIE31fJacYEkI9o6IWdzyBaAVM92h/U5Vamv4tYSXza9fgkTsd4H9u36cnDthA cc6UgEig9sXU1YrZJxvS1Z0NB1UsjuCztcqs+kt0k4Akc7sVOaaE5NQS+GtAcAVubIC+aJRGZMlWv jlTZO31PJAgY7g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMZ18-0002Of-9S; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 13:36:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:36:28 +0200 Message-Id: <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:10:53 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:10:53 +0200 > > >> +navigate @code{next-error} matches, @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate > >> +through pages, and other listed in @code{describe-repeat-maps}. > > > > "and other commands", I presume? > > This is what I already tried, but noticed that it's talking about > key sequences. But "other key sequences" looks awkward too. "Other key sequences" sounds OK to me. > > Also, saying that commands are "listed in" a function sounds > > awkwardly; I guess you meant in the window shown by > > describe-repeat-maps instead? > > Maybe simply "listed by describe-repeat-maps"? Also works. > > And finally, I think this is insufficient to document > > describe-repeat-maps, because its output is not very > > self-explanatory. I actually have difficulty understanding what it > > wants to tell me. The heading line says > > > > A list of keymaps used by commands with the symbol property `repeat-map' > > > > which isn't a user-level information. This is followed by keymap > > names and some bindings in each keymap. What is the user supposed to > > understand from that? I think we lack some short introductory text > > immediately after the heading. Or maybe the manual should have some > > more detailed explanation of what that command shows. > > Its output is easy to understand for anyone who uses this feature > and just wants to check what commands are already supported. That's not the correct criterion for judging documentation, definitely not when the manual is concerned. The manual should be clear enough to explain the command's effect even to someone who reads about repeated commands for the first time. And even if you only consider experienced users, how can a user understand that these commands support repeating? Which part(s) of that buffer say that in terns that are clear enough? A naïve reader of the buffer will just see a list of commands and their bindings, preceded by a sentence whose intent is hard to understand without some background in Emacs keymaps. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 31 04:45:36 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2023 09:45:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMnCq-0002Am-0g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 04:45:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f49.google.com ([209.85.128.49]:38754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMnCn-0002AY-Sg for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 04:45:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f49.google.com with SMTP id f47-20020a05600c492f00b003dc584a7b7eso3962946wmp.3 for <61183@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:45:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Piq3Vae/O42uX/qtOY11fok7qMQgLPhlrHUryjMlKvI=; b=cLmc3dOZSMczGcciCQ4w5Okd0gCLb6tjpZ8TArCRruKHNkSJTlPCmhLdOjlBHTC4de Hs24K8eXmhQbx7paKSFernTEWDw1obNIbkeGVhiO0dC4y6GRoSXgUPyAE2iPvA2pdLJG WmFuuX0BxoL9snTjWwVn7q4Ud4jiL2QTHLrYXtB1Db/rLUepsmiGwU7CiNIKS58uWBV+ dlGhvxl7/1x2mN02EuxVJnmg3KL/22vAXljn7HcK+tQ6e2O0Ubjgo4/R42yIW+wZxMtR 8BjEeXw48sXWXcozYb8dmT8+WqThGaPtx1yymLmvD0l7TM1X+ydksm+NBhwlvgPMEjWx HdCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Piq3Vae/O42uX/qtOY11fok7qMQgLPhlrHUryjMlKvI=; b=2bPsX+Gmb5EYquNBRTbD+5xBEPcI3I+w0+Jk6LpI/pzNnd7l1PG4tiCFk1E9im/xH3 jaC4gwiwlx2sGbwJaJTzG09NDcwZDDGWShAFqDaqR6fvkF5V5sPT2dlEq9lrSbbzdm+5 anOz5ucVgQvNtlR0HGmerI25DhiJSefXdVFgvhmZSreriwLjXCo7dNBhqbwhqMNjHUaK nS3mdSj7WxzTCYLeh9+N0LBM3Q9kJc0L11dKwbE9d8zC7vcm9znkwrrKm0ftQ6V9nc4G 1/mOPKDmbKcqo7CQ2i9qzneWX7XiEtO3qs/l45w+WTbuW7txL2TDwUt005nJvKJPRtP+ ixtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXi0mS4rb6RUmJNDPdbxWdDW7QvuW8gUXDJz9LVJ7yA92KiPqox UxDSEUK565Drrbnf56DqfyVWhWkNl3MLgA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8hXLqMCJ5AODg5fpjQqr23yDxOGxqm5+gdYTwNGe4b1IX4UAWGZtzjjOzL0b2U5/eA2bL8Tg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:354a:b0:3dc:357a:f4ab with SMTP id i10-20020a05600c354a00b003dc357af4abmr16035659wmq.15.1675158327200; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p6-20020a5d48c6000000b002bfc0558ecdsm14046256wrs.113.2023.01.31.01.45.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 31 Jan 2023 01:45:26 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual In-Reply-To: <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:36:28 +0200") References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:45:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmavvxze.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:36:28 +0200, Eli Zaretskii said: >> From: Juri Linkov >> Its output is easy to understand for anyone who uses this feature >> and just wants to check what commands are already supported. Eli> That's not the correct criterion for judging documentation, defini= tely Eli> not when the manual is concerned. The manual should be clear enou= gh Eli> to explain the command's effect even to someone who reads about Eli> repeated commands for the first time. Eli> And even if you only consider experienced users, how can a user Eli> understand that these commands support repeating? Which part(s) of Eli> that buffer say that in terns that are clear enough? A na=C3=AFve= reader Eli> of the buffer will just see a list of commands and their bindings, Eli> preceded by a sentence whose intent is hard to understand without = some Eli> background in Emacs keymaps. How about putting something like If `repeat-mode' is enabled, these keymaps determine which single key=20 can be used to repeat a command invoked via a full key sequence. in the buffer produced by `descripe-repeat-maps'? Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 31 09:07:19 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2023 14:07:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51894 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMrI7-00087r-Fq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:07:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pMrI3-00087a-QH for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:07:18 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMrHy-0004MB-1z; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:07:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=FX02ofEi9Ye0tABsMa6B+fIC8Hclbk1rLnJE7XIgHpM=; b=rdD571+wohROHhLwF48e 3+WDthMXZGCY6tNfV65pU1EZOrQ61sMY6luK5cdA8oMBJXG3hmN2Vbgr5X8Dk1b9CJHilhpip23b8 sF0kiIS+0kBI/9CCjyVYLX7fCW9SJAnpyyeeWKv6L59aPLk1F6LTrbHTMtNzFOb0gXngOBVmekWmV ksA+QgqIPo2h7wZ837zIWzTL9FO0j6g4IYVW+FWI/gayyL7TXSqlueOC65mogdR3zGQp0lWXMyV0h uKRyRdvLC+Ov7OfGEHAcVt7FOO4speJvPZCkHpewi3qGSLaEIHRRVp/iaIkx0ggHlKI2zdzQrXkgi ZmZOs9Q+e9MM4A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMrHx-0000Yx-HG; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:07:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 16:07:05 +0200 Message-Id: <838rhi3iie.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: <87pmavvxze.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:45:25 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmavvxze.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: Juri Linkov , 61183@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:45:25 +0100 > > Eli> And even if you only consider experienced users, how can a user > Eli> understand that these commands support repeating? Which part(s) of > Eli> that buffer say that in terns that are clear enough? A naïve reader > Eli> of the buffer will just see a list of commands and their bindings, > Eli> preceded by a sentence whose intent is hard to understand without some > Eli> background in Emacs keymaps. > > > How about putting something like > > If `repeat-mode' is enabled, these keymaps determine which single key > can be used to repeat a command invoked via a full key sequence. > > in the buffer produced by `descripe-repeat-maps'? This text is much better, thanks. However, it only talks about the keymaps, whereas the window we pop shows also some key bindings for each keymap. The explanatory text should say something about that as well, I think. Such an explanation would probably clarify why the text says "single" in "single key", which currently looks "out of the blue". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 01 13:08:30 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2023 18:08:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59800 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNHX4-00066c-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:08:30 -0500 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:36041) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNHX0-00066B-NG for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:08:29 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2EE6E240007; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 18:08:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual In-Reply-To: <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:36:28 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 20:06:08 +0200 Message-ID: <86y1ph6z1r.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: 61183@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> >> +navigate @code{next-error} matches, @kbd{C-x ] ] [ [} to navigate >> >> +through pages, and other listed in @code{describe-repeat-maps}. >> > >> > "and other commands", I presume? >> >> This is what I already tried, but noticed that it's talking about >> key sequences. But "other key sequences" looks awkward too. > > "Other key sequences" sounds OK to me. > >> > Also, saying that commands are "listed in" a function sounds >> > awkwardly; I guess you meant in the window shown by >> > describe-repeat-maps instead? >> >> Maybe simply "listed by describe-repeat-maps"? > > Also works. Pushed. >> Its output is easy to understand for anyone who uses this feature >> and just wants to check what commands are already supported. > > That's not the correct criterion for judging documentation, definitely > not when the manual is concerned. The manual should be clear enough > to explain the command's effect even to someone who reads about > repeated commands for the first time. > > And even if you only consider experienced users, how can a user > understand that these commands support repeating? Which part(s) of > that buffer say that in terns that are clear enough? A naïve reader > of the buffer will just see a list of commands and their bindings, > preceded by a sentence whose intent is hard to understand without some > background in Emacs keymaps. Maybe this should be explained in the docstring of describe-repeat-maps. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 01 13:09:14 2023 Received: (at 61183) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2023 18:09:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59805 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNHXm-00068B-Ma for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:09:14 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:36805) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNHXl-00067w-94 for 61183@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:09:13 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4009F60002; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 18:09:03 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual In-Reply-To: <838rhi3iie.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 31 Jan 2023 16:07:05 +0200") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmavvxze.fsf@gmail.com> <838rhi3iie.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 20:06:36 +0200 Message-ID: <86wn516z0z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183 Cc: Robert Pluim , 61183@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> How about putting something like >> >> If `repeat-mode' is enabled, these keymaps determine which single key >> can be used to repeat a command invoked via a full key sequence. >> >> in the buffer produced by `descripe-repeat-maps'? > > This text is much better, thanks. Now added to the docstring. > However, it only talks about the > keymaps, whereas the window we pop shows also some key bindings for > each keymap. The explanatory text should say something about that as > well, I think. Such an explanation would probably clarify why the > text says "single" in "single key", which currently looks "out of the > blue". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 02 08:37:49 2023 Received: (at 61183-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2023 13:37:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNZmf-0002Qu-1m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 08:37:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:32920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNZmd-0002Qh-Gj for 61183-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 08:37:48 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNZmX-0007x5-DF; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 08:37:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=HTMYtS8wFuzZYIZk+EEm5cEpI1lbUhCPaKVVAKOInkc=; b=D44YWHnM3Ezq 2jClPvNb23JZqgKFDB1E3D2UNKKfj04f23mn6axFdMawOX4rbmKJ0mXOtj9OEkfyLRwbf0jqw4rUr 2Nok5goQGE4UB1wYkyF6Sdg1PEmpB5dd01oyCx3sjv2nDjWTrc+oSjkS9wuypRRzNwRm+K5Px2RwQ 0u2XbXkYOsCuOK1c+vrEWhqYHKbSlrDaK3i53Qi+UvcnX4QgzezdtaozCjofG8CVIYiOZCYYwlOmA HtoMxRvMn/5C3loofdKbYzXgsBV7CgPSSZr03oVLKC6ke7Xja+95IbKiSaiFnuFJX3ToiOB9ceFkE 87z99EL8p+28TNQDB0Cr6Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNZmW-0003PS-Kp; Thu, 02 Feb 2023 08:37:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 15:37:42 +0200 Message-Id: <83a61wxk61.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <86wn516z0z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Wed, 01 Feb 2023 20:06:36 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#61183: 29.0.60; Add describe-repeat-maps to the manual References: <86pmawgl17.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838rhj52en.fsf@gnu.org> <86tu07evv6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1pj3m4z.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmavvxze.fsf@gmail.com> <838rhi3iie.fsf@gnu.org> <86wn516z0z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 61183-done Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, 61183-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: Robert Pluim , 61183@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 20:06:36 +0200 > > >> How about putting something like > >> > >> If `repeat-mode' is enabled, these keymaps determine which single key > >> can be used to repeat a command invoked via a full key sequence. > >> > >> in the buffer produced by `descripe-repeat-maps'? > > > > This text is much better, thanks. > > Now added to the docstring. > > > However, it only talks about the > > keymaps, whereas the window we pop shows also some key bindings for > > each keymap. The explanatory text should say something about that as > > well, I think. Such an explanation would probably clarify why the > > text says "single" in "single key", which currently looks "out of the > > blue". Thanks, I've made some further improvements in this and related documentation. I think we can now close this bug. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:03:26 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 12:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator