GNU bug report logs - #60600
30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:33:20 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi,

This patch document how to do a manual desktop restore.

[0001-Document-manual-desktop-restore.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-unknown-openbsd7.2, cairo version
 1.17.6) of 2023-01-06 built on computer
Repository revision: 3fcbb865853d7c364cf7c2986ead9e258f449f97
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101004
System Description: OpenBSD computer 7.2 GENERIC.MP#903 amd64

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/home/manuel/emacs --bindir=/home/manuel/bin
 --with-x-toolkit=no --without-sound --without-compress-install
 CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib'

Configured features:
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LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE OLDXMENU PDUMPER PNG RSVG
SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TREE_SITTER WEBP X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM ZLIB

Important settings:
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Major mode: Texinfo

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Load-path shadows:
/home/manuel/.emacs.d/elpa/ef-themes-0.10.0/theme-loaddefs hides /home/manuel/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/theme-loaddefs
/home/manuel/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-0.3.7/transient hides /home/manuel/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/transient

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Memory information:
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-- 
Manuel Giraud

Message #8 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 13:54:46 +0200

> From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:33:20 +0100
> 
> diff --git a/doc/emacs/misc.texi b/doc/emacs/misc.texi
> index c706b727e6f..ec24d43c46a 100644
> --- a/doc/emacs/misc.texi
> +++ b/doc/emacs/misc.texi
> @@ -2733,11 +2733,13 @@ Saving Emacs Sessions
>  @findex desktop-save
>  @vindex desktop-save-mode
>    You can save the desktop manually with the command @kbd{M-x
> -desktop-save}.  You can also enable automatic saving of the desktop
> -when you exit Emacs, and automatic restoration of the last saved
> -desktop when Emacs starts: use the Customization buffer (@pxref{Easy
> -Customization}) to set @code{desktop-save-mode} to @code{t} for future
> -sessions, or add this line in your init file (@pxref{Init File}):
> +desktop-save}.  You can then restore the desktop manually with the
> +command @kbd{M-x desktop-read}.  You can also enable automatic saving
> +of the desktop when you exit Emacs, and automatic restoration of the
> +last saved desktop when Emacs starts: use the Customization buffer
> +(@pxref{Easy Customization}) to set @code{desktop-save-mode} to
> +@code{t} for future sessions, or add this line in your init file
> +(@pxref{Init File}):

Thanks.

The new text seems to imply that using "M-x desktop-save" necessarily
means restoring must also be manual.  But this is only true if
desktop-save-mode was not enabled.  I have the mode enabled, and I
still sometimes save the desktop manually, whenever I make some
significant change to the session, to make sure the new arrangement is
saved and not lost due to some catastrophe.

So the change needs to be reworded not to imply the mistaken
interpretation that saving manually requires restoring manually.

Message #11 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 13:26:27 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

[...]

> The new text seems to imply that using "M-x desktop-save" necessarily
> means restoring must also be manual.  But this is only true if
> desktop-save-mode was not enabled.  I have the mode enabled, and I
> still sometimes save the desktop manually, whenever I make some
> significant change to the session, to make sure the new arrangement is
> saved and not lost due to some catastrophe.
>
> So the change needs to be reworded not to imply the mistaken
> interpretation that saving manually requires restoring manually.

Ok but OTOH, when you are not using desktop-save-mode (as I do) after
the manual save explanation you are left wondering « how could I restore
it when I need to? » and then the text goes on about setting up
desktop-save-mode.  That's why I placed this sentence here.  Maybe it
need some rewording but I don't know how I could do it.

And BTW, shouldn't desktop-revert be the user facing interface here?
-- 
Manuel Giraud

Message #14 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 15:15:46 +0200

> From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
> Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 13:26:27 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > The new text seems to imply that using "M-x desktop-save" necessarily
> > means restoring must also be manual.  But this is only true if
> > desktop-save-mode was not enabled.  I have the mode enabled, and I
> > still sometimes save the desktop manually, whenever I make some
> > significant change to the session, to make sure the new arrangement is
> > saved and not lost due to some catastrophe.
> >
> > So the change needs to be reworded not to imply the mistaken
> > interpretation that saving manually requires restoring manually.
> 
> Ok but OTOH, when you are not using desktop-save-mode (as I do) after
> the manual save explanation you are left wondering « how could I restore
> it when I need to? » and then the text goes on about setting up
> desktop-save-mode.  That's why I placed this sentence here.  Maybe it
> need some rewording but I don't know how I could do it.

I find the organization of the text in that section not very logical
in general.  It begins by describing not-very-important optional
features.  It should instead start by describing desktop-save-mode,
since this is the recommended use of this facility, and leave the
manual saving/restoring for later (explaining why one would want to do
it manually).  When it describes desktop-save-mode, it should mention
that saving happens also from time to time, not just upon exit,
something that for some reason is described much later in the section.
And the order of describing the various optional features seems to
lack any logic, which at least should be to describe the more
significant/important options (such as desktop-load-locked-desktop,
for example) first.

Feel free to rewrite the section along the above lines; if not, I will
do that soon, hopefully also taking care of the issue you raise.

> And BTW, shouldn't desktop-revert be the user facing interface here?

What do you mean?  desktop-revert is described in that section (again,
without any hint about when it could be useful).

Message #17 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 14:30:39 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

[...]

> I find the organization of the text in that section not very logical
> in general.  It begins by describing not-very-important optional
> features.  It should instead start by describing desktop-save-mode,
> since this is the recommended use of this facility, and leave the
> manual saving/restoring for later (explaining why one would want to do
> it manually).  When it describes desktop-save-mode, it should mention
> that saving happens also from time to time, not just upon exit,
> something that for some reason is described much later in the section.
> And the order of describing the various optional features seems to
> lack any logic, which at least should be to describe the more
> significant/important options (such as desktop-load-locked-desktop,
> for example) first.

Yes.  I had the same feeling when reading this section.  It starts
talking about desktop-restore-frames before I had grasp what is the
purpose of desktop.

I'll see if I can come up with something and report here.

>> And BTW, shouldn't desktop-revert be the user facing interface here?
>
> What do you mean?  desktop-revert is described in that section (again,
> without any hint about when it could be useful).

I think I was mistaken desktop-read seems to be the correct interface as
documented in desktop-save-mode function.
-- 
Manuel Giraud

Message #20 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 16:06:57 +0200

> From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
> Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 14:30:39 +0100
> 
> >> And BTW, shouldn't desktop-revert be the user facing interface here?
> >
> > What do you mean?  desktop-revert is described in that section (again,
> > without any hint about when it could be useful).
> 
> I think I was mistaken desktop-read seems to be the correct interface as
> documented in desktop-save-mode function.

Yes, desktop-read should be mentioned there, as desktop-revert is only
TRT if one ever uses a single desktop file.

Message #23 received at 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 16:15:08 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Here is a rewrite/reshuffle of (Saving Emacs Sessions) node.

I tried to explain desktop-save-mode right from the start.  Then go on
with the options by order of importance.  As you suggest, I left
desktop-load-locked-desktop quite high even though I find it a bit
verbose and quite « implementation detail ».  WDYT?

[0001-Rewrite-Saving-Emacs-Sessions-bug-60600.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

-- 
Manuel Giraud

Message #28 received at 60600-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
Cc: 60600-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60600: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Document manual desktop restore
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2023 10:49:33 +0200

> From: Manuel Giraud <manuel <at> ledu-giraud.fr>
> Cc: 60600 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2023 16:15:08 +0100
> 
> Here is a rewrite/reshuffle of (Saving Emacs Sessions) node.
> 
> I tried to explain desktop-save-mode right from the start.  Then go on
> with the options by order of importance.  As you suggest, I left
> desktop-load-locked-desktop quite high even though I find it a bit
> verbose and quite « implementation detail ».  WDYT?

Thanks, this LGTM.  So I've installed it on the emacs-29 release
branch, and then made a few minor changes in the wording and the
arrangement of the text.

And with this, I'm closing this bug.

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