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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Please consider saying in the doc string what it means to "keep" a file name in the recent list. The doc string goes into what it means to be a predicate, but it says nothing, really, about what this option means/does, because it tells you nothing about what "keeping" amounts to. Also, a nit: when used as a noun phrase, "filename" should be "file name". (When used as an adjective before a noun phrase it should be "file-name". We use (should use) "filename" only in some function etc. names, not in the doc. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19044 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 01 12:51:04 2023 Received: (at 60470-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2023 17:51:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41664 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pC2UB-0004fD-WB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 12:51:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pC2UB-0004ej-1a for 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 12:51:03 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pC2U5-0005yH-If; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 12:50:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=9U/3fwwO0hQICeLEZsbjXn7A+Pegii6EQvyJtyD1Dx0=; b=hd0MYsE0/vdA oiVnj+V9Wfa34vA86JhFMjy2a+mpKK28iWdhHNrGlpom6g8rMZFm3ZgRI5ME+L5fcGOYubPEDX1y6 u2xA/6FQ3cjql2hFHmEDc3xUOUjQjJP0lexeEViZsAGnItc++kmBMLy3wp7JfdBtBoeDor4Armw1b GQfKLnckZElRutB0L58dRFkB3b2GqUFZfPnM+bBtF5yfLKC7U7nSsMUuWJ/ujy17xPsxJPenPgK6c OcKix9E0q6JT0L/imcsPulMs3vF5tNRbPXmOVYLirMjwipBU97q2fhgMnj/qFy1DkzNVfJmoiPD8k R+9EExNrqfosQAOloSkIDg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pC2U4-0000gK-Jz; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 12:50:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2023 19:51:02 +0200 Message-Id: <83pmby2lfd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 1 Jan 2023 16:39:40 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#60470: 26.3; Doc string of `recentf-keep' References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60470-done Cc: 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 16:39:40 +0000 > > Please consider saying in the doc string what it means to "keep" a file > name in the recent list. > > The doc string goes into what it means to be a predicate, but it says > nothing, really, about what this option means/does, because it tells you > nothing about what "keeping" amounts to. I've rad the doc string, and I see nothing wrong with it. In particular, I did find there the explanation of what "keeping" means. So I'm closing this bug. > Also, a nit: when used as a noun phrase, "filename" should be "file > name". (When used as an adjective before a noun phrase it should be > "file-name". We use (should use) "filename" only in some function > etc. names, not in the doc. Noted. 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bh=3zwAa0t4mPGp6xDuZG1MnKkI6TzWvG49GfuWNraynko=; b=P12QyfyeF0bhucw00kplr94hN+o6KkhYXezXjXEp0XnDpPUxKuh6qkWs659BxX8qR5SXzKPh1uT6vfbyEvMkKMWUeU3BVZN3YUHFl7eXP23qyVVWSo6BotMRQ0TqSWjHTJ09iNi/CnesIlTyCO9IpSD7wHD/55Gl2Q45gBetGrU= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by DM4PR10MB6280.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:bb::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5944.19; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 22:31:56 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7c3c:e53d:5276:ef29]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7c3c:e53d:5276:ef29%8]) with mapi id 15.20.5944.019; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 22:31:55 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#60470: 26.3; Doc string of `recentf-keep' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#60470: 26.3; Doc string of `recentf-keep' Thread-Index: Adkd/5vdJfDQDyDrR/qhp4khj7yn4wACgFrnAAj90MA= Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 22:31:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83pmby2lfd.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83pmby2lfd.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|DM4PR10MB6280:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3c4ea741-0abc-492e-7b53-08daec47fd00 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3c4ea741-0abc-492e-7b53-08daec47fd00 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Jan 2023 22:31:55.7534 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aZtJuFZLKr8UkbvKeUA1tr0RO+paru+KfmQQpmBmvG0n72si3hqWz/Z593ckkCIHuDTMhfz19Z7o9bqmS8sX3w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM4PR10MB6280 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.923,Hydra:6.0.545,FMLib:17.11.122.1 definitions=2023-01-01_11,2022-12-30_01,2022-06-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=878 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2212070000 definitions=main-2301010208 X-Proofpoint-GUID: -ZETF0y2AdmMdY3KbhK7Q-SSy7_XUlom X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: -ZETF0y2AdmMdY3KbhK7Q-SSy7_XUlom X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60470-done Cc: "60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Please consider saying in the doc string what it=20 > > means to "keep" a file name in the recent list. > > > > The doc string goes into what it means to be a > > predicate, but it says nothing, really, about > > what this option means/does, because it tells > > you nothing about what "keeping" amounts to. >=20 > I've rad the doc string, and I see nothing wrong with it. In > particular, I did find there the explanation of what "keeping" means. >=20 > So I'm closing this bug. FWIW, I don't see any such explanation, in any doc string. Following the code - e.g. the places where `recentf-keep-p' is used, I can see that the use of `recentf-keep' differs from the use of `recentf-exclude' (besides filtering in instead of out) in that `recentf-keep' filtering happens when you kill a buffer (via `recentf-track-closed-file') or whether "cleanup" occurs. That info is missing from the option doc string. Other than searching thus in the code, I see no way for a user to know what "keep" means. Does it refer to keeping persistently, i.e., not removing when saving? Does it refer to keeping after the buffer for the file is killed? When a "cleanup" occurs? "Keep" in what way, wrt what? I think a user will wonder about this. And in particular I don't see anything in the doc string of `recentf-keep' that speaks to it - nothing that makes you not wonder how this differs from the use of option `recentf-exclude' (besides filtering in the opposite sense). We give users two options for filtering the recentf list. The doc string of one seems clear enough: it prevents some file names _from being added_ to the list. The other doc string doesn't speak to the presumed _removal_ operations for which it prevents removal. Its predicates and regexps prevent removal of certain files - but what is it that would otherwise cause their removal? You can figure it out by either (1) looking at the code or (2) checking _all_ of the doc to get a list of the possible removal events/operations/occurrences, and surmising that `recentf-keep' takes effect for all of them. But I don't see how you can figure it out just by looking at the `recentf-keep' doc string. Would you mind pointing to the part of the doc string that you think explains what "keeping" means? I really don't see it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 02 08:00:18 2023 Received: (at 60470-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2023 13:00:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42722 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pCKQM-0002MR-9j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:00:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pCKQK-0002M9-MB for 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:00:17 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pCKQE-0006xw-Nh; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:00:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=k/yEf/ezextYYo7yPzuZz0BwBVSiz177aJd5+dsB/fc=; b=oLda++TTXB4RAC2JX9Io yhCVyaFdTR0lCI7QBF97Vr5INV2N14n18c+dQdZVffPraq69hb0AtqJlDrIq2Q1H7RK0xLu0f+zfE YPh0otHw9oUF5946wzHamoiBto45Qm5F1y5UMwXj+68zo25L20nmuw9dALm9ShGiCiBvH1lfbBNV8 e+80+FsTBq1PaoAE495x60ipJXHh9u39H9XCTKhEPxKJDFyAsjU8jJZy0VEb6l0cKwiWG5Q7PfUyW kRsR4qa7nR/uO1dT/fds1eHliqGUEiRh1VJ7UGxHDdpZE40ZCBuzcOpNSePJuOgrZOsXC8XJ+GyQ1 2KoRk2kk0w1Jdg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pCKQD-0001jF-0I; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 08:00:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2023 15:00:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83r0wd1480.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 1 Jan 2023 22:31:55 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#60470: 26.3; Doc string of `recentf-keep' References: <83pmby2lfd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60470-done Cc: 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 22:31:55 +0000 > > > I've rad the doc string, and I see nothing wrong with it. In > > particular, I did find there the explanation of what "keeping" means. > > > > So I'm closing this bug. > > FWIW, I don't see any such explanation, in any doc string. Here it is: List of regexps and predicates for filenames kept in the recent list. > Other than searching thus in the code, I see no way for a > user to know what "keep" means. Does it refer to keeping > persistently, i.e., not removing when saving? Does it > refer to keeping after the buffer for the file is killed? > When a "cleanup" occurs? "Keep" in what way, wrt what? Here's the answer: (define-minor-mode recentf-mode "Toggle keeping track of opened files (Recentf mode). This mode maintains a list of recently opened files and makes it easy to visit them. The recent files list is automatically saved across Emacs sessions. There's also a short explanation in the user manual: If you enable Recentf mode, with ‘M-x recentf-mode’, Emacs maintains a list of recently opened files. To open a file from this list, use the ‘M-x recentf-open’ command. When this mode is enabled, the ‘File’ menu will include a submenu that you can use to visit one of these files. ‘M-x recentf-save-list’ saves the current ‘recentf-list’ to a file, and ‘M-x recentf-edit-list’ edits it. > We give users two options for filtering the recentf list. > The doc string of one seems clear enough: it prevents > some file names _from being added_ to the list. The > other doc string doesn't speak to the presumed _removal_ > operations for which it prevents removal. Its predicates > and regexps prevent removal of certain files - but what > is it that would otherwise cause their removal? The original report didn't mention recentf-exclude. Since you now add it to the issue, I've looked that up: (defcustom recentf-exclude nil "List of regexps and predicates for filenames excluded from the recent list. When a filename matches any of the regexps or satisfies any of the predicates it is excluded from the recent list. A predicate is a function that is passed a filename to check and that must return non-nil to exclude it." Sounds perfectly clear to me, and the difference between recentf-keep and recentf-exclude is also very clear. > Would you mind pointing to the part of the doc string > that you think explains what "keeping" means? I really > don't see it. See above. 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ZWNlbnRmLWtlZXANCj4gYW5kIHJlY2VudGYtZXhjbHVkZSBpcyBhbHNvIHZlcnkgY2xlYXIuDQoN ClNlZSBhYm92ZS4gIEhvcGVmdWxseSBpdCBjbGFyaWZpZXMgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0uICBZZXMsDQoi a2VlcCIgcHJldmVudHMgcmVtb3ZhbHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgbGlzdC4gIEl0J3MgcmVtb3ZhbHMNCnRo YXQgYXJlbid0IGRvY3VtZW50ZWQuDQo= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 02 12:56:56 2023 Received: (at 60470-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2023 17:56:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pCP3Q-0004Zi-H9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 12:56:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pCP3M-0004ZR-9b for 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 12:56:55 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pCP3G-0006bS-Lu; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 12:56:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=NNDsM19RoWv4mh/OHs8Zl+alCDizrYgC/ZwGODwXPKI=; b=QKCoiMy0Rls8 DoJIylwZXDqQt5giQ4TNac7WTPVrgWbjvMbs3H9e52lqOcGpMBSE0YUTTYhCy7Sc5ArWawWFoRhYX ZhJX8c2hdiy1fDI0//cdYvfP5/rfHDkmz0tB1lqLCpiscMe5iutkoaQSKt7eej2uQueMIOojpk0jf Hlp/gctQJyZ8oz4QoYLc8XEsmG5eHyIspGTSSgQFMUNa4jkTPh5xRHJ1ujY4nR507VkHDFdc+s/WN IOvPFE1upbA0O/b7uv0MLKVEvF+J8j3dHvNsM0Im9mw2VOlHJxRfubZ43TfX//u75OgZ3REiqU5UH T//c6x8e4eAXtB6zlWSOaQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pCP3F-0002BI-Ta; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 12:56:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2023 19:56:53 +0200 Message-Id: <83ilho2522.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 2 Jan 2023 17:48:49 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#60470: 26.3; Doc string of `recentf-keep' References: <83pmby2lfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0wd1480.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60470-done Cc: 60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <60470-done@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 17:48:49 +0000 > > > > >the explanation of what "keeping" means. > > > FWIW, I don't see any such explanation, in any doc string. > > Here it is: > > > > List of regexps and predicates for filenames kept in the recent list. > > That just says "kept" in place of "keep". No, it says "kept in the recent list". And what that list is should be clear from the rest of the documentation of the mode. Anyway, there's nothing else to discuss here, and the bug is already closed. From unknown Fri Aug 15 16:19:35 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator