From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16710585766995 (code B ref -1); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:57:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 22:56:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5afe-0001ol-KU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:56:16 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:33294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5afZ-0001of-Ka for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:56:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5afY-0002Ox-Kc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:56:09 -0500 Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5afS-0005vo-IY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:56:08 -0500 Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-b04885-76.dhcp.inet.fi [176.72.133.76]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABFCDD08C6D for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 00:55:56 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1671058556; bh=UHy3kh6JXMxNhkP/4bJnzni9j6gwPTA1hf+paSUwS2A=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=Hrk2/WtAFNahg6FKsYixcjpAo/I43EL3NzBrajtpxDF1uBejqdc5eurKcI2vAKmyf R8ai0aWopq2iY4rx4RDGW/H0L+8BCROkhLCiTEJcUko3PqxqIna2lNNtuSrAO9VoO5 TBFdYbDCUGHf4W5qa11M2HuA8OWjpoRmlmii5PW6z6Z0t546gkA9x0a1+WQZR4VCtF VPNqmtdQFrmEiMTO7MX9fkaywvYZyOmkYGH4orchho4MWD0lram2RMolMznis55+/I F3fQSn2XHRAGPXXtcCd9CLRPwb5VLdJ06XSARBHzQh8KJqDyJNVUUXd0RjmI2B0+pI ASGRVp+l4yhZQvMIK4Li/bHY+eIRs1k6lwZvBzXGpolD24QzwQt1+P4o2yBWCJ/dZJ ZSDEBtHuokCebZITNmN7PWXB8tDnSxDtUVP6LNj/g6E7MNIp1hA5osXhQyFGK+e2O/ IQSibOil9OEWJC+PVVSb2RH4kTGj7jugKfys+e6qR9YyvLVIQrgtspM4+BQ8KNMFlu vXVf/VfjCH+l5hzMYOVJpTaF6GDUFuZxd86bxNzqIMX+NPnvcoPSOR0EAAXTSyZfI8 sp8Q80j7oo7n0dNoc8v51PFM4fY7okpW0rWyhikjIaYauzGg0IFK5ZF56SR3LcuPGR RJptLIHdl+OPn04lgXvZsKhI= From: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 00:55:56 +0200 Message-ID: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Steps to reproduce: 1. Add select method 2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus 3. Launch Gnus 4. Quit Gnus 5. Remove select method 6. Relaunch Gnus 7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in Gnus Result: gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn=E2=80=99t exist [2 times] Expected result: Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed. Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select methods or can't delete them. In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.35, cairo version 1.17.6) of 2022-12-05 built on 875212 Repository revision: 3114158a384d4c1fdc3e1845bf8a55fca7787916 Repository branch: master System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --prefix=3D/usr --sysconfdir=3D/etc --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib --localstatedir=3D/var --mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-gameuser=3D:games --with-modules --with-libotf --without-gconf --with-libsystemd --enable-link-time-optimization --with-native-compilation=3Dyes --with-native-compilation=3Daot --with-xinput2 --with-pgtk --without-xaw3d --with-sound=3Dalsa --without-gpm --with-tree-sitter '--program-transform-name=3Ds/\([ec]tags\)/\1.emacs/' 'CFLAGS=3D-march=3Dx86-64 -mtune=3Dnative -O2 -pipe -fno-plt -fexceptions -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2 -Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security -fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection -flto=3Dauto' 'LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-O1,--sort-common,--as-needed,-z,relro,-z,now -flto=3Dauto'' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_MONETARY: fi_FI.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Group Minor modes in effect: magit-wip-initial-backup-mode: t magit-wip-before-change-mode: t magit-wip-after-apply-mode: t magit-wip-after-save-mode: t magit-wip-mode: t global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t gnus-topic-mode: t global-atomic-chrome-edit-mode: t minions-mode: t back-button-mode: t recentf-mode: t savehist-mode: t emms-playing-time-display-mode: t emms-playing-time-mode: t autocrypt-mode: t gnus-desktop-notify-mode: t doom-modeline-mode: t global-auto-revert-mode: t org-super-agenda-mode: t gnus-undo-mode: t projectile-mode: t global-company-mode: t company-mode: t electric-pair-mode: t editorconfig-mode: t frames-only-mode: t marginalia-mode: t which-key-mode: t dired-async-mode: t hl-line-mode: t helm-mode: t helm-minibuffer-history-mode: t global-so-long-mode: t change-cursor-mode: t mode-icons-mode: t global-emojify-mode: t emojify-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t server-mode: t helm-autoresize-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t save-place-mode: t delete-selection-mode: t override-global-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: /home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/w3m/w3m-autoloads hides /home/bida= r/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/w3m/shimbun/w3m-autoloads /home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/vim-modeline/vim-modeline hides /h= 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helm-easymenu helm-core async-bytecomp helm-source helm-multi-match helm-lib async auth-source-pass url-parse url-vars auth-source password-cache printing ps-print ps-print-loaddefs lpr desktop frameset edmacro kmacro saveplace delsel no-littering epkg-elpa json map epkg-utils epkg-list epkg-desc wid-edit find-func epkg closql emacsql-sqlite advice emacsql emacsql-compiler llama compat-26 compat compat-macs comp comp-cstr warnings icons use-package use-package-ensure use-package-delight use-package-diminish use-package-bind-key bind-key easy-mmode use-package-core w3m-load rx request-autoloads persist-autoloads mastodon-autoloads llama-autoloads bbdb-loaddefs autocrypt-autoloads cl-extra help-mode cl-seq borg derived eieio byte-opt eieio-core cl-macs gv loaddefs-gen generate-lisp-file lisp-mnt radix-tree subr-x pcase info cl-loaddefs cl-lib bytecomp byte-compile rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/pgtk-win pgtk-win term/common-win pgtk-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo gtk pgtk lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 2997787 2980828) (symbols 48 106515 938) (strings 32 536445 226961) (string-bytes 1 16480282) (vectors 16 162970) (vector-slots 8 5707751 257372) (floats 8 3526 2327) (intervals 56 50477 2088) (buffers 992 49)) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> In-Reply-To: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 23:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17086429297205 (code B ref 60078); Thu, 22 Feb 2024 23:03:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2024 23:02:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdI4u-0001s4-51 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 18:02:09 -0500 Received: from mail-4022.proton.ch ([185.70.40.22]:49803) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdI4r-0001rJ-58 for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 18:02:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1708642895; x=1708902095; bh=lamd4/JVF1iw1564nV59gwv5KVWg9AhS5HmXZMCXjqU=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=nwFu9bGtPxMhqbR40BQa5AyjiwIrSZ/WaPyqxTHjXFuuoH16P9VpAjJPxz8Hn8ahg bZgyGp2zUD9Hl7kFA4N5NssMoxlcPUVTIkLcOK3uSxUKYn1Tcfr74VB2FgaUoMKiMA 7vE2vCAvedQ6bm5NQoS6gup3efxcgKqRzcAN3qb998pNLpRZFr5YgYz6acP5CBJyEj cvGbrvjeGCqTyrX0ElOC2cY9orGbwJ3A0rBE45lFSXdoLhvfhjuBo/0DDfEFanvTGP xjmltlqtoDfPols0I+AzgxjqIn0yQijMq4p2YU9FUMUBUyHHgJ8cMqO8hfCmnhtauh qiFcAl0HJS0pw== Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 23:01:18 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <875xygrtmt.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > Steps to reproduce: > 1. Add select method > 2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus > 3. Launch Gnus > 4. Quit Gnus > 5. Remove select method > 6. Relaunch Gnus > 7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in > Gnus > > Result: > gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging > gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn=E2=80=99t exist = [2 > times] > > Expected result: > Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed. > > Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select > methods or can't delete them. Hello Bj=C3=B6rn, thanks for the bug report. I believe that the "correct" w= ay to deal with such groups is simply to kill them (C-k in *Group* buffer). The documenatation says the following about the bogus group: A group that exists in the =E2=80=98.newsrc=E2=80=99 file, but isn=E2=80= =99t known to the server (i.e., it isn=E2=80=99t in the active file), is a _bogus group_. This mean= s that the group probably doesn=E2=80=99t exist (any more). So basically if you remove the select method corresponding to a particular group then Gnus is not able to check for bogus groups. --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 03:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, kuba@kubajecminek.cz X-Debbugs-Original-To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar , Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.170865880324725 (code B ref 60078); Fri, 23 Feb 2024 03:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2024 03:26:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57374 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdMCw-0006Qi-BW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 22:26:43 -0500 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:50266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdMCt-0006QL-OC for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 22:26:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CF08FA0B2; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 03:26:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1708658770; bh=T3ux9S2pTccwtl8//76iijY8suzFWLHNy2J38ePJhtU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=dnJ8HFqs1LMv9j9f0KLEjXksKio59k7k45Z2+Bp7xCqWGvU2wUMS/+YV+f//GbUAz OS308P+P0GCTcrQkfUwPKtMJsCUi6W7vVXQ9ScUOiIMNjFtY1vQnIFQrJWcDW1Nsoo c7DNcrB9uTPr5/oHrPdHiG/xmUgxLiC6qvUEcpXs= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <875xygrtmt.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= via \"Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors\""'s message of "Thu, 22 Feb 2024 23:01:18 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <875xygrtmt.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 19:26:08 -0800 Message-ID: <87wmqvg8tr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -5.2 (-----) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army kni= fe of text editors" writes: > Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > >> Steps to reproduce: >> 1. Add select method >> 2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus >> 3. Launch Gnus >> 4. Quit Gnus >> 5. Remove select method >> 6. Relaunch Gnus >> 7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in >> Gnus >> >> Result: >> gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging >> gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn=E2=80=99t exist= [2 >> times] >> >> Expected result: >> Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed. >> >> Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select >> methods or can't delete them. > > Hello Bj=C3=B6rn, thanks for the bug report. I believe that the "correct"= way > to deal with such groups is simply to kill them (C-k in *Group* buffer). > > The documenatation says the following about the bogus group: > > A group that exists in the =E2=80=98.newsrc=E2=80=99 file, but isn=E2=80= =99t known to the server > (i.e., it isn=E2=80=99t in the active file), is a _bogus group_. This me= ans > that the group probably doesn=E2=80=99t exist (any more). > > So basically if you remove the select method corresponding to a > particular group then Gnus is not able to check for bogus groups. My understanding of checking for bogus group is that it should handle precisely these circumstances: removing groups that no longer have a corresponding select method. I tried Bj=C3=B6rn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closest thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had previously belonged to the nnmaildir server. I'm guessing that Bj=C3=B6rn has some expunging-related customization that attempts to expunge messages early on, maybe during the active-file reading that happens as the first step of checking for bogus groups? Gnus is trying to get the nonexistent select method to expunge its articles before it has a chance to remove the groups. Just a guess... From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17086803205010 (code B ref 60078); Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2024 09:25:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdRnz-0001Ig-UD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 04:25:20 -0500 Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]:46521) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdRmJ-0001Cy-BC for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 04:23:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1708680183; x=1708939383; bh=zkpzRT+HmSV9zqUNPEYNGYYu5aacld1UbPWv3hCneNk=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=1cvxh73hJo23UFMUDywDqVtD6Pb1+1CTc2onfM55nIOMfD7nWMZ4mgIzuFBvuIkpf gTaPowEkXH6EBo7zCoLnbQj+7ziMN+/mHsP0IY0vhdkXIuP3txwIbZ72OHfPvVggWC PUt+ywo4F4yegywmhhB7bPSNKYzxb3dVvMnsxwA9OhMyupEL+ihFHEWrX0P9h3dQO1 +JJUJYcHU5+2bpHWsMdYWkHKowphMhRAIHp+h1HuyOSp1b4sOsTUlt14SbOAoH6wUZ /oRppgrmfDgYAI0C4RrQnDnWv1Yq3V5E/ONM6LSwaPN0ur/Zr5l+gKb+GpOgaOKXYu 1dPnYndyhAbHg== Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:22:58 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87msrrttzk.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> In-Reply-To: <87wmqvg8tr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <875xygrtmt.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87wmqvg8tr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > I tried Bj=C3=B6rn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closes= t > thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select > method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running > "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had > previously belonged to the nnmaildir server. Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'? --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.170870479712744 (code B ref 60078); Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:14:01 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2024 16:13:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50724 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdYAn-0003JT-1D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 11:13:17 -0500 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:45212) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rdYAk-0003J1-Cm for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 11:13:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76D56FA02C; Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:12:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1708704763; bh=Yy3GkTwQsHewwbTBcYi0nzKrD7p01MAfRJ6TTurKe5E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Atpv0E/tGqGYA9AS1p3GFa4yohIX7po+GRuizfH0ABOzqjq8GTKXTrdfDxU4Y9dLQ O+9zQURJ7pDvRap29/grdoT2EH/5E+IZAAQmZbS9ZW4NIbkwJhJc+WHXQBfw9hZHMX 3bNuVbfl4CTGVjByVYXp4qtzgfSdJJtSx1KYj9Ww= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87msrrttzk.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?="'s message of "Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:22:58 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <875xygrtmt.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87wmqvg8tr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87msrrttzk.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 08:12:41 -0800 Message-ID: <87r0h3f9c6.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 02/23/24 09:22 AM, Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek wrote: > "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > >> I tried Bj=C3=B6rn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the close= st >> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select >> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running >> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had >> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server. > > Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'? Oh weird, in that case I don't get an error, but it also doesn't offer to remove the groups -- nothing happens at all. I'll look into this a little more closely. From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> In-Reply-To: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 21:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.1712005849986 (code B ref 60078); Mon, 01 Apr 2024 21:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2024 21:10:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrOvZ-0000Fq-0y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:10:49 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]:61067) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rrOvW-0000Fc-E5 for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 17:10:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1712005836; x=1712265036; bh=rPRSrSNaFyrxjKrx0VId4tBO55csqYE8NSl6PY30Mxo=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=ZQDEYtoXMOWLGZFSdA3q7SIjaLcWzK4uP/IRvswzk9gqox6JuOqZOiWWxc7HO58HF HWUHCyc67bpLBOdvAlXqYaT1kSzBfEKhoYASKNpxpNZn//W2ymlvgEW+sKYqRJvhJx VTjzxsBrtI3DYTW+fBsDTqWayHgpFION0x+feXefAXvIfdBuWNIROcYCGwnR2S+7gT hp4If2NbyLh+R0/rx2rk3THzxoOCGhUZph+WYsY4Oh+CeDCtX5gSBMgB7YlgVaVmtL bqaklZ+ibsMSN3tRUko3SnUY7fksJXfCNiQ2CXzJGlg5EDyJcJXuY00wjgs8DFff3d sPOycGmORS/BA== Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 21:10:31 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Eric Abrahamsen writes: > On 02/23/24 09:22 AM, Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek wrote: >> "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: >> >>> I tried Bj=C3=B6rn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the clos= est >>> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select >>> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running >>> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had >>> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server. >> >> Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'? > > Oh weird, in that case I don't get an error, but it also doesn't offer > to remove the groups -- nothing happens at all. I'll look into this a > little more closely. Have you managed to make any progress, Eric? Best --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 03:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17153987183025 (code B ref 60078); Sat, 11 May 2024 03:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2024 03:38:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45804 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s5dZF-0000mj-Di for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2024 23:38:38 -0400 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:57986) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s5dZ9-0000mb-Pb for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 May 2024 23:38:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F2EF0FA396; Sat, 11 May 2024 03:38:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1715398704; bh=X5r0d+zBSDvZQPwPcsEovXxYqdeS+nXwNnn52XZURH8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Sgt4jPGIkRBRXpPr0CFbN2VLmgZai4j8BDp2ZRNYTvVSkJRJtDkTGjs6ySMwQ2TMX p4GWzjbqr5F5ZFdbUn9qQrtsOjGph4XnodQqkLaFpcNhM/VEy7TATOzjp+RupStACt RroH4mKEEt3r6choVjpdxuEH7Psj+LG2eAFrZNHU= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?="'s message of "Mon, 01 Apr 2024 21:10:31 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 20:38:14 -0700 Message-ID: <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek writes: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> On 02/23/24 09:22 AM, Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek wrote: >>> "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: >>> >>>> I tried Bj=C3=B6rn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the clo= sest >>>> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select >>>> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running >>>> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had >>>> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server. >>> >>> Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'? >> >> Oh weird, in that case I don't get an error, but it also doesn't offer >> to remove the groups -- nothing happens at all. I'll look into this a >> little more closely. > > Have you managed to make any progress, Eric? Ahem... So it looks like there's multiple things going on here. First of all, the check for bogus groups explicitly excludes secondary select methods. Why I do not know, but it's been that way since 2004. Second, expunging isn't really related to this question. Expunging means asking a server to delete all deletable articles, and if a group has no server, then there's no way to do that. That leaves plain old deleting, and so far as I can tell there's no problem with deleting groups that have no server present. So I want to make sure this isn't a misunderstanding about expunging, and if it isn't, if there's something else I'm missing. Thanks! Eric From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 May 2024 22:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17155517377917 (code B ref 60078); Sun, 12 May 2024 22:09:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2024 22:08:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56747 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6HNJ-00023d-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2024 18:08:57 -0400 Received: from mail-4323.proton.ch ([185.70.43.23]:20595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6HNE-00023T-NS for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2024 18:08:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1715551725; x=1715810925; bh=SlVncI+ZGhQtReHjWBsTTj0aP4nN/D+BTrE3KJZ8FLc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=TrdOLZ33aAe7PDYvRD38saKzSgjpNFutbaAUTb2/2QwW7DLhN/GnB7uMztvcZnJLe flPVt1Hl0rIDhGkAjOeQUaUfM0kKEFekajpgbT/kORvZk+R1WJhuMT2nTwK26kRVy6 NrMdtuMzM2DNgBoz/jola3RQK7zsiNh1IAhkbrRFjm2/lm6rLG5LR8xWHNsWMUFBJw qFGcowfAZERoEuW9s2ftBPGqT+xusohVqf69rndJIDhGGoSLS7z0w5Uw/B50wsgkJE /+YnTet9WBn1JL3tI6fRZaZjLFCE9f2eRDYGuII3MvumtxKDAdzhpzL7Ud17XxYA9b yO90dRIWPiPGQ== Date: Sun, 12 May 2024 22:08:40 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> In-Reply-To: <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 150ecc59a4d239275abf9e2ef62bd77c7e0cb3e7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello Eric, thanks for looking into it once again. "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > So it looks like there's multiple things going on here. First of all, > the check for bogus groups explicitly excludes secondary select methods. > Why I do not know, but it's been that way since 2004. I believe that this is a bug. The documentation says that the `bogus' group is such that exists in the `.newsrc' file, but isn=E2=80=99t known to= the server (i.e., it isn=E2=80=99t in the active file). So it must not be active and must not be foreign. But the definition of foreign group in `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' is different from what was defined by Lars in 1997: (defun gnus-group-foreign-p (group) "Say whether a group is foreign or not." (and (not (gnus-group-native-p group)) (not (gnus-group-secondary-p group)))) We should use this predicate in `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' which fixes the bug we hit along the way (different behaviour between primary (native) and secondary select methods). What do you think? >From a7141acb5361be1c34775bd73434889018f0e9ff Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =3D?UTF-8?q?Jakub=3D20Je=3DC4=3D8Dm=3DC3=3DADnek?=3D Date: Sun, 12 May 2024 23:58:22 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Fix foreign group predicate in gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups * lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el (gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups): Use correct predicate for foreign groups. --- lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el | 4 +--- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el index 05ad4303b5c..b01551d8e22 100644 --- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el +++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-start.el @@ -1368,9 +1368,7 @@ gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups =09(setq info (pop newsrc) =09 group (gnus-info-group info)) =09(unless (or (gnus-active group)=09; Active -=09=09 (and (gnus-info-method info) -=09=09=09 (not (gnus-secondary-method-p -=09=09=09 (gnus-info-method info))))) ; Foreign + (gnus-group-foreign-p group)) ; Foreign =09 ;; Found a bogus newsgroup. =09 (push group bogus))) (if confirm --=20 2.34.1 Best --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 00:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.171564817015420 (code B ref 60078); Tue, 14 May 2024 00:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2024 00:56:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35905 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6gSg-00040Y-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2024 20:56:10 -0400 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:44610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6gSb-0003zg-DS for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2024 20:56:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 59A2CFA01F; Tue, 14 May 2024 00:55:56 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1715648156; bh=gf5uuDZDMuPWon2R52ku5NtSfMtrMXfDFN6r+xgBKDs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=iap145N6sMxAPxJeWyqvJFm/KaqbMc1Al0TJOb5Y5jiUXDz25ex+GISd1QwKeVvus HdM0YWHPZoqff5A234atxsc9KBwMIp1wBUjEfWptmv/cBzzmqoI6lgh/4N6gkWCB+c PcurMEdgvqyWxpbaDVxLvFaSw6jHDm4l4GSs9N14= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= via \"Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors\""'s message of "Sun, 12 May 2024 22:08:40 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Date: Mon, 13 May 2024 17:55:38 -0700 Message-ID: <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army kni= fe of text editors" writes: > Hello Eric, thanks for looking into it once again. > > "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > >> So it looks like there's multiple things going on here. First of all, >> the check for bogus groups explicitly excludes secondary select methods. >> Why I do not know, but it's been that way since 2004. > > I believe that this is a bug. The documentation says that the `bogus' > group is such that exists in the `.newsrc' file, but isn=E2=80=99t known = to the > server (i.e., it isn=E2=80=99t in the active file). > > So it must not be active and must not be foreign. But the definition of > foreign group in `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' is different from what > was defined by Lars in 1997: > > (defun gnus-group-foreign-p (group) > "Say whether a group is foreign or not." > (and (not (gnus-group-native-p group)) > (not (gnus-group-secondary-p group)))) > > We should use this predicate in `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' which > fixes the bug we hit along the way (different behaviour between primary > (native) and secondary select methods). > > What do you think? I think you're right about the definition of "foreign", and that there's a bug/misunderstanding in code like this, but this check isn't a complete fix because `gnus-group-secondary-p' looks up the group's method, and the whole reason we're running this code is that the group's method no longer exists. (The original/current code also has this issue.) If the method is actually gone, groups that used to belong to it will also be passed over. So I guess there's two scenarios to support: in the first, the server is still there but one or more groups are gone (someone's deleted an IMAP folder from the server), and in the second the server itself has been removed from the user's config files, and we're clearing out the old groups. Your patch (or at least the understanding behind it) should be part of the fix, but there will have to be more. Thanks, Eric From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 20:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17157193418165 (code B ref 60078); Tue, 14 May 2024 20:43:01 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2024 20:42:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41437 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6yyb-00027d-Fv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 May 2024 16:42:21 -0400 Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]:57603) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s6yyY-00027V-9n for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 May 2024 16:42:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1715719330; x=1715978530; bh=8NLhynlbBOoe28SXB5gdsFrzdoDTgrc/ZjJw4G8efVQ=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=BGix/i43BedP8KhdNm5oKKhvD6kKLGhzWdAGEpEEefSKYC1LKhF2pm7N8d55yoY1H kTQx1h/f5PdG93Qezv8bOuw/ao1rUxqEt45V4fmKly7xWqQUWjt+rsXA4FcKG1L8jq Z0CqgUrvsz53iiJU3tBDgrbQZu4NLL7QDyuejF73b8Ttcz7TWh8pVviOb7WqhPT5Dx HIhTtRQ5vtIxb8nbT+KkPCIL+PNg2+pSedjTShrQfChNRVcw/MBB9ugmswF7tVpLic gro3rsUigPL92dLoC2dv2ABHEKHCoKngphgqYqHHelYzXBpzV8a6qaIhtoFz0fc1jC vC9heCFvI9RBA== Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 20:42:05 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> In-Reply-To: <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: e14d445e09c0c8fe2a8427c84e21eb96c84e94d9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This whole issue sent me really deep, so thank you for sticking by. "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > I think you're right about the definition of "foreign", and that there's > a bug/misunderstanding in code like this, but this check isn't a > complete fix because `gnus-group-secondary-p' looks up the group's > method, and the whole reason we're running this code is that the group's > method no longer exists. (The original/current code also has this > issue.) If the method is actually gone, groups that used to belong to it > will also be passed over. Then it comes down to you as package maintainer to decide what bogus group actually is, because current definition makes little sense to me. For example, if the server is down and Gnus is not able to get active info, all groups belonging to that server become bogus, which is a little unfortunate. > So I guess there's two scenarios to support: in the first, the server is > still there but one or more groups are gone (someone's deleted an IMAP > folder from the server) and in the second the server itself has been > removed from the user's config files, and we're clearing out the old > groups. Both of these cases can be handled with simple (group-active group) predicate. Do you have a clue why Lars wanted to handle foreign groups separately? I've searched (ding) mailing list, old bug reports, changelogs, commit messages, and everything else I could find but I found nothing. Thanks! --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 17:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17158789873852 (code B ref 60078); Thu, 16 May 2024 17:04:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2024 17:03:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49862 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7eVW-000104-EY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 13:03:07 -0400 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:40094) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7eVS-0000za-2b for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 13:03:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B799FA12D; Thu, 16 May 2024 17:02:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1715878973; bh=MZ7UosMXSnVTpfJJRL7zKWM4Pc8FQM7oNQmjgAyXsfg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=usy3INrjTU+Hc0XilyyE+3xaK3nnfxM2NW0s370u/Pmy7j9CTjKSL+8gSPkMbxaKD GsHqrQdE9XJL3QNeLnlfnHnmO29R0zJnQc/Emx/XCXzOHmqM0DL8RsPWeyl5uyjoQD N6MYEsSklm0IaIMYeXMvsIj2fl+yD7wUsYWzIs+o= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= via \"Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors\""'s message of "Tue, 14 May 2024 20:42:05 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 10:02:51 -0700 Message-ID: <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army kni= fe of text editors" writes: > This whole issue sent me really deep, so thank you for sticking by. It's pretty confusing. > "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > >> I think you're right about the definition of "foreign", and that there's >> a bug/misunderstanding in code like this, but this check isn't a >> complete fix because `gnus-group-secondary-p' looks up the group's >> method, and the whole reason we're running this code is that the group's >> method no longer exists. (The original/current code also has this >> issue.) If the method is actually gone, groups that used to belong to it >> will also be passed over. > > Then it comes down to you as package maintainer to decide what bogus > group actually is, because current definition makes little sense to > me. For example, if the server is down and Gnus is not able to get > active info, all groups belonging to that server become bogus, which is > a little unfortunate. > >> So I guess there's two scenarios to support: in the first, the server is >> still there but one or more groups are gone (someone's deleted an IMAP >> folder from the server) and in the second the server itself has been >> removed from the user's config files, and we're clearing out the old >> groups. > > Both of these cases can be handled with simple (group-active group) > predicate. Do you have a clue why Lars wanted to handle foreign groups > separately? I've searched (ding) mailing list, old bug reports, > changelogs, commit messages, and everything else I could find but I > found nothing. This code is ancient, so I think we're dealing with both terminology and functionality that has evolved over time. A bit of searching indicates that "bogus" was something of a technical term (in the 90s) in the usenet world, and meant a group that was being deprecated or deleted, where server administrators were encouraged to drop it or at least stop advertising its existence. I think in the Gnus context "bogus" very specifically refers to this. The 90s was also when Gnus was fundamentally a newsreader, with "extras". The primary select method was always going to be a nntp server. So this check may have grown extra functionality over the years, but basically it was just meant to see if any NNTP groups had disappeared from the server. Now we have more types of server where this might be applicable: disappearing IMAP folders, deleted maildir directories, etc. This "foreign" thing is annoying. I guess it just means groups that are created via the Gnus interface (ie "G m" etc) rather than in your config files. But it's more subtle than that, because you don't create groups via your config files, either, you only define select methods. And for groups created via "G m", it's possible to create a group and specify an existing (in-your-config-files) select method as its select method. And if you specify a non-existent select method for the group, that select method will be "created", in that now it will be treated as real, and multiple groups that have the same sexp as their select methods will be treated as having the "same" select method. Where does that leave us? I think there's no safe way to say "this group's select method no longer exists", because in many cases the presence of a sexp like (nnml "") is enough to count as "exists". So I think "bogus" can only mean: "this group belongs to a server that provides a `gnus-request-list' method, but when we request the list, this group isn't in it". I think you're right that simply checking if a group is active shouldn't mean anything, as there are plenty of reasons a group might not be activated. WDYT? From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 19:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.171588924111895 (code B ref 60078); Thu, 16 May 2024 19:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2024 19:54:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7hAu-00035k-NQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 15:54:00 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]:18065) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7hAr-00035X-Cn for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 15:53:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1715889228; x=1716148428; bh=unGtIJ+LTPCZgqgSXFJveFBw6SvhcOCSMnwyhGR3UoE=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=GsYkeUIKX/9xZTcstNmw+xpATVdEF0dxFtYJpjggfthNx6We/n9n9/5MPWNKhm5oi jjQQ/E2gOdIcABAIP9nW+35Ffhuc9BhwuEJT/tUkBITY824YigLwXedJIP/V3wj/IX P6qz3jQhGAQZ00vfEqo9snZ66S2ikWglQOSI3/EUVFKMLhUDXQr7qj++KldCpdIf+I mHTVfN3ClvsVnHgNKKFzxtZpIoart5DenaEPNwP0YxzTuQ0UlzQ2H43sZJqPmzJyUT RiqGbKr8ta7IJvbo8GLGTTL5vawqD7DLnMnfvooyOpXAO6740uRrqDcbJGunbUD5Wg 4vD7vTmwHozxg== Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 19:53:43 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87zfspy1mj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> In-Reply-To: <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: faf2cd978aac069294e2ba10e1ad63c2cad98c55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > [...] > Where does that leave us? I think there's no safe way to say "this > group's select method no longer exists", because in many cases the > presence of a sexp like (nnml "") is enough to count as > "exists". > > So I think "bogus" can only mean: "this group belongs to a server that > provides a `gnus-request-list' method, but when we request the list, > this group isn't in it". > > I think you're right that simply checking if a group is active shouldn't > mean anything, as there are plenty of reasons a group might not be > activated. > > WDYT? Your analysis is brilliant, thank you. So to summarize what bogus group actually should be: 1. The server of the newsgroup provides `gnus-request-list' method 2. The server has been sucessfully opened 3. The group is not listed in the active file 4. We do not distinguish between native and secondary select methods and foreign groups. Is it correct? If we go back to Bj=C3=B6rn's bug report though, I still think that the "correct" way to remove groups without corresponding select method is to kill them (C-k) and then kill them again from the list of killed newsgroups. This is actually what `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' function does. --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 02:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.171591455231156 (code B ref 60078); Fri, 17 May 2024 02:56:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2024 02:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52480 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7nl9-00086S-Nc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 22:55:52 -0400 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:58528) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s7nl6-00086D-8R for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 22:55:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D35DAFA396; Fri, 17 May 2024 02:55:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1715914538; bh=8ZDuH8K29UVMNLGlkqj3kcfJd6OHNk74s1wKaIgaCfY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=ixbK2zZFiZRZqj9SCc6Brp7BFj+axqwew2q+YbtSq0uscnYOsiFtGUSPVI7ZoYrMS si7nlFEr84m4FiNZIVh3sDcog46ivP4yyo1d+x5rI2aAvjKFm4YuqaJ6BbDMALTYaN qcjAJpEaW1izkivc3ZLhwcMHlIpSxSbir/nDNg/Y= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87zfspy1mj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= via \"Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors\""'s message of "Thu, 16 May 2024 19:53:43 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87zfspy1mj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 19:55:32 -0700 Message-ID: <874jax6taz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army kni= fe of text editors" writes: > "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: >> [...] >> Where does that leave us? I think there's no safe way to say "this >> group's select method no longer exists", because in many cases the >> presence of a sexp like (nnml "") is enough to count as >> "exists". >> >> So I think "bogus" can only mean: "this group belongs to a server that >> provides a `gnus-request-list' method, but when we request the list, >> this group isn't in it". >> >> I think you're right that simply checking if a group is active shouldn't >> mean anything, as there are plenty of reasons a group might not be >> activated. >> >> WDYT? > > Your analysis is brilliant, thank you. So to summarize what bogus group > actually should be: > > 1. The server of the newsgroup provides `gnus-request-list' method > 2. The server has been sucessfully opened > 3. The group is not listed in the active file > 4. We do not distinguish between native and secondary select methods > and foreign groups. > > Is it correct? That's what I think, yes, though it would probably be a good idea to float this on gnus.general and see if anyone has any opinions, I'll do that in a bit. > If we go back to Bj=C3=B6rn's bug report though, I still think that the > "correct" way to remove groups without corresponding select method is to > kill them (C-k) and then kill them again from the list of killed > newsgroups. This is actually what `gnus-check-bogus-newsgroups' function > does. Yes, poor Bj=C3=B6rn didn't really get anything resolved -- I think in his case the thing to do is just delete the groups. Eric From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 20:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Abrahamsen Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.17159789305157 (code B ref 60078); Fri, 17 May 2024 20:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 May 2024 20:48:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57217 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s84VW-0001L6-Cv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2024 16:48:50 -0400 Received: from mail-4323.proton.ch ([185.70.43.23]:61541) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s84VV-0001Kv-8e for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2024 16:48:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kubajecminek.cz; s=protonmail; t=1715978920; x=1716238120; bh=kfEyhh6bLQWEEN2batPblp9hVEiBdbYiQgzvjiU7cHg=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=gQOgGQ0mDN7sWKCPS5jHbySlL1NFe/4JQThpGVZsqNgqOFdtPLsPBamOU4N3Ykigt 135hkZymwux69mTJMOOulqX/6N/WsNVwsUGTrIeocEsK6jEZE3fEg50kWALeT++w1k 6raioKHgDFJtp7GOtbU8vjWdqhFpIX4Bk8r548j5offeWI0IezXHUg76jAjUDGkM23 PmlW5IhJrmeDFoMXHPNNydcK3DXccGL0qp/yJJiqzIF0uYPUUIUmYDhvDcOOD/Xhw+ AodVimCB4RB9A2q/67ALaV0nwhqQJCK5ixcqDbFibMcPjkNhR7wAOg32wVo0xehHrw pvYDRyTklDvZQ== Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 20:48:37 +0000 From: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Message-ID: <87h6ewi2ql.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> In-Reply-To: <874jax6taz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87zfspy1mj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <874jax6taz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Feedback-ID: 98803324:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 0a7feb7fb535d428c521657ff0a92bb62ab0d402 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > That's what I think, yes, though it would probably be a good idea to > float this on gnus.general and see if anyone has any opinions, I'll do > that in a bit. Great. > Yes, poor Bj=C3=B6rn didn't really get anything resolved -- I think in hi= s > case the thing to do is just delete the groups. Should we close this one or is there anything else to discuss/fix? Thanks! Best --=20 Kuba Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek (http://kubajecminek.cz) From unknown Sat Jun 14 18:52:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 22:49:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60078 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?= Cc: 60078@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Received: via spool by 60078-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60078.171633171328934 (code B ref 60078); Tue, 21 May 2024 22:49:02 +0000 Received: (at 60078) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2024 22:48:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51644 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s9YHZ-0007Wc-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 May 2024 18:48:33 -0400 Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:51842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s9YHO-0007WU-5o for 60078@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 May 2024 18:48:31 -0400 Received: from localhost (71-212-21-65.tukw.qwest.net [71.212.21.65]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBA11FA12D; Tue, 21 May 2024 22:48:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1716331690; bh=30G3M6PXQONsvbkoQL8lQV5OiNPH8/tlk4gcXiBOA/o=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=XzPwfAwfMYNeI4tClQIr5+AxbrpMoss0wepxq77ysAuPCs1ZxufRWi2R28eEuOcVu QjxrX3FKasQeI0Yf8Ae6GNKYtgHXa3AR6V8/zExT5hka9PxK4L8lCvVWko2Y6GrerJ QyO/gwnSaXmW37YjvE97g5zMg7wW7Nfm+wL+eqhs= From: Eric Abrahamsen In-Reply-To: <87h6ewi2ql.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> ("Jakub =?UTF-8?Q?Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek?="'s message of "Fri, 17 May 2024 20:48:37 +0000") References: <875yedvblv.fsf@thaodan.de> <87jzlgvlfe.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <878r0hauhl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ttj2isyj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <875xvh9ppx.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87v83gdt2d.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <87cypl7kqs.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87zfspy1mj.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> <874jax6taz.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h6ewi2ql.fsf@kubajecminek.cz> Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 15:48:07 -0700 Message-ID: <87v83693yw.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Jakub Je=C4=8Dm=C3=ADnek writes: > "Eric Abrahamsen" writes: > >> That's what I think, yes, though it would probably be a good idea to >> float this on gnus.general and see if anyone has any opinions, I'll do >> that in a bit. > > Great. > >> Yes, poor Bj=C3=B6rn didn't really get anything resolved -- I think in h= is >> case the thing to do is just delete the groups. > > Should we close this one or is there anything else to discuss/fix? I only just posted to gnus.general, maybe let's see what responses are like, if any, and then decided what to do with this report.