GNU bug report logs - #60006
28.2; C-h f reports wrong version

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:42:32 +0900

C-h f reports wrong version when `always' was introduced.

[How to reproduce]
1. emacs-28.2 -Q
2. Type C-h f always RET
3. Then *Help* buffer says:
  Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.

This contradicts to the following entry in etc/NEWS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
** New function 'always'.
This is identical to 'ignore', but returns t instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine



In GNU Emacs 28.2 (build 1, x86_64-unknown-freebsd13.1, GTK+ Version 3.24.33, cairo version 1.17.4)
 of 2022-09-15 built on freebsd.vmware
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101004
System Description: 13.1-RELEASE-p5

Configured using:
 'configure --with-canna --with-canna-includes=/usr/local/canna/include
--with-canna-libraries=/usr/local/canna/lib --without-xim
--disable-largefile --without-modules --with-sound=yes
--with-file-notification=yes CFLAGS=-O3'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON
LCMS2 LIBXML2 NOTIFY KQUEUE PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $EMACSLOADPATH: /home/keita/elisp:
  value of $LANG: ja_JP.eucJP
  locale-coding-system: japanese-iso-8bit-unix

Major mode: MH-Folder

Minor modes in effect:
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  TeX-PDF-mode: t
  hl-line-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  indent-tabs-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
/home/keita/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-20221028.1430/transient hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.2/lisp/transient
~/elisp/reftex-parse hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.2/lisp/textmodes/reftex-parse
/home/keita/.emacs.d/elpa/soap-client-3.2.1/soap-inspect hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.2/lisp/net/soap-inspect
/home/keita/.emacs.d/elpa/soap-client-3.2.1/soap-client hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.2/lisp/net/soap-client

Features:
(shadow emacsbug magit-patch face-remap magit-submodule magit-obsolete
magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull
magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence
magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge magit-branch
magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit magit-repos
magit-apply magit-wip magit-log magit-diff smerge-mode diff git-commit
rx log-edit pcvs-util add-log magit-core magit-autorevert autorevert
filenotify magit-margin magit-transient magit-process with-editor server
magit-mode transient magit-git magit-base magit-section format-spec dash
compat-27 compat-26 compat compat-macs help-fns radix-tree cl-print
debug backtrace find-func boxquote rect mh-thread preview reftex-dcr
reftex-auc reftex reftex-loaddefs reftex-vars tex-bar toolbar-x noutline
outline tex-mode shell pcomplete font-latex tex-jp latex latex-flymake
flymake-proc flymake project compile comint ansi-color ring warnings
tex-ispell tex-style tex texmathp latexenc misearch multi-isearch vc-git
diff-mode vc-dispatcher bug-reference supercite easy-mmode regi
mh-identity mh-letter mh-comp sendmail flow-fill qp mh-funcs mm-archive
mh-search smiley mail-extr mh-mime mh-gnus mh-show gnus-cite gnus-art
mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum shr svg dom
gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail
mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int message dired
dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode
gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win gnus-range gnus nnheader wid-edit mh-alias
multi-prompt crm goto-addr thingatpt mh-seq mh-inc hl-line mh-tool-bar
mh-xface mh-utils mh-folder which-func imenu gnus-util rmail
rmail-loaddefs mail-utils text-property-search mh-scan mh-e mh-compat
mailabbrev mh-buffers mh-loaddefs skeleton mule-util kinsoku cl-extra
help-mode parse-time iso8601 time-date ucs-normalize epa derived epg
rfc6068 epg-config url-http url-auth mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr url-gw nsm rmc puny jka-compr
twittering-mode advice xml edmacro kmacro preview-latex tex-site
canna-im info package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand
url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util mailcap
url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs
eieio-loaddefs password-cache json subr-x map url-vars seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib japan-util iso-transl
tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd
tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace
newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar
rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files
window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages
mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind
kqueue lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1045309 123392)
 (symbols 48 28779 21)
 (strings 32 174650 17519)
 (string-bytes 1 9965161)
 (vectors 16 89412)
 (vector-slots 8 1601512 78390)
 (floats 8 293 451)
 (intervals 56 25310 9606)
 (buffers 992 48))

Message #8 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
Cc: 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 17:10:21 +0200

> From: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:42:32 +0900
> 
> C-h f reports wrong version when `always' was introduced.
> 
> [How to reproduce]
> 1. emacs-28.2 -Q
> 2. Type C-h f always RET
> 3. Then *Help* buffer says:
>   Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.

That's why it says "Probably".  The method of finding out the first
release where the symbol appeared is a heuristic, and it can sometimes
fail in ridiculous ways.

Message #11 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Akib Azmain Turja <akib <at> disroot.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:16:59 +0600

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:42:32 +0900
>> 
>> C-h f reports wrong version when `always' was introduced.
>> 
>> [How to reproduce]
>> 1. emacs-28.2 -Q
>> 2. Type C-h f always RET
>> 3. Then *Help* buffer says:
>>   Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.

For me, it is: "Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 25.1."

>
> That's why it says "Probably".  The method of finding out the first
> release where the symbol appeared is a heuristic, and it can sometimes
> fail in ridiculous ways.

Just out of curiosity, what heuristic exactly?

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja, GPG key: 70018CE5819F17A3BBA666AFE74F0EFA922AE7F5
Fediverse: akib <at> hostux.social
Codeberg: akib
emailselfdefense.fsf.org | "Nothing can be secure without encryption."

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #14 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Akib Azmain Turja <akib <at> disroot.org>
Cc: ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:26:33 +0200

> From: Akib Azmain Turja <akib <at> disroot.org>
> Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>,  60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:16:59 +0600
> 
> > That's why it says "Probably".  The method of finding out the first
> > release where the symbol appeared is a heuristic, and it can sometimes
> > fail in ridiculous ways.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what heuristic exactly?

See help-fns--first-release.

Message #17 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 16:48:25 -0800

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:42:32 +0900
>>
>> C-h f reports wrong version when `always' was introduced.
>>
>> [How to reproduce]
>> 1. emacs-28.2 -Q
>> 2. Type C-h f always RET
>> 3. Then *Help* buffer says:
>>   Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.
>
> That's why it says "Probably".  The method of finding out the first
> release where the symbol appeared is a heuristic, and it can sometimes
> fail in ridiculous ways.

NEWS.25 says:

    *** New value 'always' for 'sh-indent-after-continuation'.

I don't think there's much we can do here besides redesigning this
feature from the ground up.  So I'd be inclined to close this one as
wontfix.

Message #22 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 05:37:42 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 16:48:25 -0800
> Cc: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > That's why it says "Probably".  The method of finding out the first
> > release where the symbol appeared is a heuristic, and it can sometimes
> > fail in ridiculous ways.
> 
> NEWS.25 says:
> 
>     *** New value 'always' for 'sh-indent-after-continuation'.
> 
> I don't think there's much we can do here besides redesigning this
> feature from the ground up.  So I'd be inclined to close this one as
> wontfix.

I agree.

Message #25 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>, 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:05:29 +0900

>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> I don't think there's much we can do here besides redesigning this
>> feature from the ground up.  So I'd be inclined to close this one as
>> wontfix.

> I agree.

I see, I don't mind. Thank you all.

Regards,
Ikumi Keita
#StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine

Message #28 received at 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 60006 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60006: 28.2; C-h f reports wrong version
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:46:20 -0800

tags 60006 + wontfix
close 60006
thanks

Ikumi Keita <ikumi <at> ikumi.que.jp> writes:

>>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>> I don't think there's much we can do here besides redesigning this
>>> feature from the ground up.  So I'd be inclined to close this one as
>>> wontfix.
>
>> I agree.
>
> I see, I don't mind. Thank you all.

Thanks, I'm consequently closing the bug with this message.

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