GNU bug report logs - #59882
30.0.50; Compilation of ELPA packages during version upgrade (Org 9.6 ELPA upgrade from older ELPA version)

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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92 <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: dsmasterson <at> gmail.com, 59882 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode <at> gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, michel <at> schi.nz
Subject: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:37:07 +0000

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading
>> may cause unexpected consequences. See
>> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf <at> fastmail.fm
>
> I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by
> loading it.  It should do that only when it is actually used.

Yes, we plan to do exactly this https://orgmode.org/list/87zgbqqukg.fsf <at> localhost
However, it will be a breaking backward-incompatible change. And we have
similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In
particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function
symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design).

Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice.

Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages.
Including, built-ins, like rect.el.
dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages.

>> At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not
>> being available without loading.
>> https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614 <at> gargle.gargle.HOWL
>
> That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is
> ambiguous.  That a variable is not boundp until its definition is
> loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that
> in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not
> the best style around here).
>
> So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the
> problem with that variable being "nonexistent"?

Agree. See the quote below:
https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/25497.41832.663858.836948 <at> gargle.gargle.HOWL/

    Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours
    my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor
    on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing.  It was the first time this
    ever happened to me.  I did try to explicitly enter the variable's
    name by entering 'org-goto<TAB>', which (like 'org-go<TAB>') is not
    enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

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