From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 07 06:36:33 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2022 11:36:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49821 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p2sj2-0003Rt-WA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:33 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p2siy-0003Rd-HL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2siy-0004Nj-6i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:28 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2sin-0003Cy-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2022 06:36:27 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42BF1240026 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 12:36:12 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670412975; bh=oXG8/LSRLrn+C3pitiNx2QdsS88M9iCOKhys65p2GE4=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=a2HyNgZm67pZQV+k/r9yq9uvCEktF4jaheizgSwWrL24pcpFy2RN0xcHubVKzfX/V /meoDIxvbY4F0qUaMG/YgXSJdunWaEQtB2cGXg4Vvs8BXKQaqVw5StSGDCwysDFyx1 lSeCd/dCVjCr5YglQrPEAlkwouaWVcf303LQUkM08v6CWsfmgeP+2lI44PnrFwCfZl 0ftu0FIfp7gnG70BqxhgbIyyuBdASY+LuSG2YKjiFVKinodJCcRiDV8E3rjqME3JNy x6+l9jlqq5AuQRV/r58FfPMnLYYOR6v3AlFETnb1+Syx6aUzcwlJVZPYClKOnrPViz fuUOcfzRshaEw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NRwGN1DLhz9rxN for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2022 12:36:11 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 30.0.50; Compilation of ELPA packages during version upgrade (Org 9.6 ELPA upgrade from older ELPA version) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2022 11:36:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87mt7zh2e0.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hi, I am writing as a follow-up of numerous errors reports on Org 9.6 upgrades. Users commonly report issues upgrading Org mode via ELPA when an older, non-built-in, version of Org is already installed and loaded. The issue is well described in https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 People are commonly getting "invalid function `org-assert-version'", which indicates compilation issue when `org-assert-version' macro is not correctly recognized as a macro. Similar errors have been reported in the past Org upgrades when we introduced/changes some basic macros in Org. I am not yet sure about the source of the error, but I suspect that it might be something to do with package.el. May it be that M-x package-install / package-reinstall does not unload the old package versions upon installation? Or maybe there are some stale .elc files lying around? Any other ideas? P.S. Please, do not be diverted by the purpose of `org-assert-version' macro. The origin of the error has nothing to do with it and could as well happen with any other macro. It is just that we put this particular macro into all the Org libraries now, making the problem obvious. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . 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Thu, 8 Dec 2022 21:56:05 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e]) by SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5880.014; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 21:56:05 +0000 From: David Masterson To: "Michel Schinz" Subject: Re: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 In-Reply-To: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> (Michel Schinz's message of "Thu, 08 Dec 2022 20:31:13 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [trnxcCnnCJ9+hq24v9VfOXxQNcIFyfK37nXjrJmaZLLQBys2+z/rioakN8kbYWql] X-ClientProxiedBy: SJ0PR03CA0098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:333::13) To SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:27b::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87ililef0s.fsf@penguin> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 2 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SJ0PR03MB5455:EE_|CH2PR03MB5334:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 5cd9f053-0a74-44a8-400e-08dad967012f X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Adding this to bug #59882 "Michel Schinz" writes: > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-pac [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.40.20 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 22:53:27 -0500 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Adding this to bug #59882 "Michel Schinz" writes: > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-packages, then > install the package from there), I had errors during compilation related > to `org-assert-version`, and then if I restarted Emacs, I would get a > fatal error in an unrelated package. > > I managed to solve that problem by: > 1. uninstalling Org 9.6 and exiting Emacs, > 2. starting Emacs with -q, > 3. installing Org 9.6 from there (using M-x list-packages as usual), > 4. restarting Emacs. Interesting! I tried this (essentially) and it worked for my case. In my case, I had a built-in Org-9.3 and I was trying to use list-packages to install Org-9.6. I checked that using -q still added Org-9.3 to the load-path, but, since Org wasn't loaded, the install via list-packages worked. The question is what's the proper way of doing this without '-q'? > I'm not sure this is related to your problem, or whether that helps (but > I hope it does)... I think it does. Side note: In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: (message "%s" org-version) ;; Error undefined ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' (message "%s" org-version) 9.3 So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? Why do I have a feeling this is related to this bug? -- David Masterson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 02:17:43 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 07:17:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Xdf-0003pO-C2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3Xdd-0003pI-Ln for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:42 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3XdX-0007LH-Co; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ySVERv42gNXuYxLpyZ/x5rM9dr8fhfQPCUmfseLDQDM=; b=q5gUDGzalLBR r3VpgToULJtXniInPI5O9LcqKinv/iDj9vdYpyBoNQbT8ABzeLFC/nb+lgR8GxUH51dWS3cYaGpN6 s3RAvCCF1SjN0UHVGQTAIf1LCHZuCo1VpWlq+tMqQ6pydf72UAPzJopPr5aSHwOrjJKlTzy1Lgjct ZNyG0qAmIcpw6aWYMRHX0AdsKCMvEDwdvIJzJas2i5rpUjaHyPvCRzwdpEZxFbHiNhLAggliCMEQ8 3Al9TO9YhcxQmnc2S56m3CjseWCo0XyA93qxLbr6nVKSEPIWv5ngcDbW0F0b2yTdsghzgh7LOPLRk WLAbmoyKifZ+KxSsk+NheA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3XdU-0004nD-5O; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 02:17:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 09:17:23 +0200 Message-Id: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: David Masterson In-Reply-To: (message from David Masterson on Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > From: David Masterson > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 > > In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: > > (message "%s" org-version) > ;; Error undefined > ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > (message "%s" org-version) > 9.3 > > So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help command loads something to do its job? 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Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: David Masterson >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (m [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dsmasterson[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.15.69 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: David Masterson >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> ;; Error undefined >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> (message "%s" org-version) >> 9.3 >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-version? I didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a package-activate-all (or similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. -- David Masterson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 06:58:01 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 11:58:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0v-0006qg-D1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:58:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47630) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0t-0006qa-P9 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:58:00 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0m-0001rX-OW; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7xRR4AdD4XEKfi30XfxSQ2VDgY4pcJGnoYttGEYh1g8=; b=nX8fUbreSU1t 72llQPNMoWyb1WytPR0HPFLCW1b/d+FKagAzUUF+22kCjzj/czukt6SbqUGetBHt+HK1bNQgqoT0P Q1iSprHOo3E+GR7VUt5HRAC+AM3FQsJfzMlTT0sOaitrS6Q0PHWtVXReNPJAj9PoS+keCripAzb8G 3QlBFo9paGHQEREE5oJ/re8pwZF85VuBc0uzTTYFlkary5eNUmN3KDU6p/fbLNmGe0LMS7B2IogJM 84Z2sYNe/9LBiG8C3YOUzlsU9ADNQUEIYYDdBtNhrq51B+Ku9NJetXFLyEoRXX3A/xDSN6DFH0B+R ObxK78oBJjUEduA7KSAr2Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3c0h-0004Q4-Ct; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 06:57:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 13:57:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83359o23ij.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: David Masterson In-Reply-To: (message from David Masterson on Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: David Masterson > Cc: michel@schi.nz, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 23:43:05 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? > > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find > org-version? I didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a > package-activate-all (or similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. I don't think Emacs does package-activate-all. But Help commands frequently load packages to provide the documentation of the symbols you ask about. If this is surprising, then I suggest to get used to it. 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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "michel@schi.nz" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 > >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > >> From: David Masterson > >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 > >> > >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: > >> > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> ;; Error undefined > >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > >> (message "%s" org-version) > >> 9.3 > >> > >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > > command loads something to do its job? >=20 > Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-versio= n?=20 This is provided for via emacs' autoload by prefix mechanism. See: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefi= x.html What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: =09(clrhash definition-prefixes) > didn't request it to by this action. Or did it do a package-activate-all= (or > similar) to ensure that everything was loaded? > That would be overkill. Sometimes the best answer is 'nil'. >=20 > -- > David Masterson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 14:48:06 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 19:48:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jLp-0002Tq-Sh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:48:06 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-170.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.170]:52287) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jLn-0002TY-Ty for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:48:04 -0500 Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2108.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.108]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-84-Lwj4GNbqPMSUcHdFs5dcXw-1; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:48:01 -0500 X-MC-Unique: Lwj4GNbqPMSUcHdFs5dcXw-1 Received: from DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:79::16) by CH0PR20MB3851.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:dd::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5880.13; 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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Adding this to bug #59882 >=20 > "Michel Schinz" writes: >=20 > > Just for the record, I also ran into problems when installing Org 9.6 > > using Emacs' package system on top of an older version that came with > > Emacs. If I tried to install it as usual (M-x list-packages, then > > install the package from there), I had errors during compilation > > related to `org-assert-version`, and then if I restarted Emacs, I > > would get a fatal error in an unrelated package. > > > > I managed to solve that problem by: > > 1. uninstalling Org 9.6 and exiting Emacs, 2. starting Emacs with -q, > > 3. installing Org 9.6 from there (using M-x list-packages as usual), > > 4. restarting Emacs. >=20 > Interesting! I tried this (essentially) and it worked for my case. In m= y case, I > had a built-in Org-9.3 and I was trying to use list-packages to install O= rg-9.6. I > checked that using -q still added Org-9.3 to the load-path, but, since Or= g > wasn't loaded, the install via list-packages worked. >=20 > The question is what's the proper way of doing this without '-q'? >=20 > > I'm not sure this is related to your problem, or whether that helps > > (but I hope it does)... >=20 > I think it does. >=20 > Side note: >=20 > In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >=20 > (message "%s" org-version) > ;; Error undefined > ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' > (message "%s" org-version) > 9.3 >=20 > So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? [Cook,= Malcolm]=20 Yes. See https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoloa= d-by-Prefix.html But it will NOT be autoloaded if you first: (clrhash definition-prefixes) HTH & YMMV, Malcolm > Why do I > have a feeling this is related to this bug? Yeah, I'm not sure what you consider the bug to be now. Remind me? >=20 > -- > David Masterson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 14:51:41 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 19:51:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38125 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jPJ-0002XL-9j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:51:41 -0500 Received: from mail-bn8nam12olkn2024.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.21.24]:29472 helo=NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jPI-0002XF-GL for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 14:51:40 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Dnair/gVdzvC5ihrZPsCB0aI5h3nU6YvdR7skcsPthodskAbh0DgKoX7PU/u/+btvWK+uKvBbnBZsuA7CLePoSxmTABck94rr8Dw5e/CWZ+fobABw34J9XHt7Bp/6TR1OIafVFCP2EUYkwq/X4KZvT+oumIo4sLnFjiL6vaWN64F4VSUwcmAS2UcgqGdsrg6iBJxFdP3ZFxZfF9pOE9jhL4g/kN6ZfFbA5vd9T8RJjVQuFiUXhZ6FHs9hegcoKpygMWRfRpkRQbs6zF/0qVaYuaop5ieSshjyF4CEaJGDJgpE/Ps/Y7xwSAaRlatbpIhh0fXVdbccwJOVQk5el70eQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:51:33 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e]) by SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e016:84f7:daad:916e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5880.018; Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:51:33 +0000 From: David Masterson To: "Cook, Malcolm" Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Malcolm Cook's message of "Fri, 9 Dec 2022 19:40:17 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [BkItmtRSOj3h7nZT3hlSvMYHnCyj09RjD8yQ+JGuTN/mtwSh7BNRDxHoOgNDKtYQ] X-ClientProxiedBy: BYAPR11CA0071.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:80::48) To SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:27b::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87mt7wz77i.fsf@penguin> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 2 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SJ0PR03MB5455:EE_|MN2PR03MB5344:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: bbe1a85c-ff5e-4875-d91b-08dada1ec5d3 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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Content preview: "Cook, Malcolm" writes: >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> From: David Masterson >> >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> >> >> In my testing, I found a stra [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (outlook_98c99531806b1c22[at]outlook.com) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dsmasterson[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [40.92.21.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "michel@schi.nz" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) "Cook, Malcolm" writes: >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> From: David Masterson >> >> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 13:56:03 -0800 >> >> >> >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> >> ;; Error undefined >> >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> >> 9.3 >> >> >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? >> > >> > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help >> > command loads something to do its job? >> >> Yes, it is surprising. How did Emacs know to load Org to find org-version? > > This is provided for via emacs' autoload by prefix mechanism. > > See: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefix.html > > What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: > > (clrhash definition-prefixes) Ah! Thank you. In many ways, I still think of Emacs from what I learned about it in the early 80s (yes, pre-Elisp). I didn't expect this and, so, didn't investigate the possibility that it's planned (the Info documentation has gotten huge). Apologies to Eli. -- David Masterson From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 09 15:27:32 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2022 20:27:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38292 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jy0-0002tt-6m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jxy-0002tn-NC for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:31 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jxr-00056i-7a; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FNVLU/JksVkgaVXKVQMPVCqFsVmNIuSuTQsDToeRViQ=; b=CCSVnLl/pTuo FwiowaQjCX4zcgOrSWfkvsmRCkk7Ko58h7e1ViwZoARZ+CitQ2aCg9mEGUqCntS5FIJ6xDVv/o5NZ Jk42GznjAWuzyHi9Z05m+iwUL2Aun48ayQCs3SzgcFPAnA3FyAZKm8V5qpkMloELp28z6nvWS3REZ tfQltDaIPam+AgChYmm9/rDCDVhbwF95EP4C2Hm4bJ0n0z55CiqNWvbrm5DA1QG540mZ859379pfI ixZkHdTTwf7P0y9tDmY8Ev/zqBRDyFhSbuNwAfMfDEAXOYNtrA3RfNkckN7WdZ3kvT3S3yrfkYPhj Dzp6/573vyBKpk5VbYGlEw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p3jxo-0007md-2e; Fri, 09 Dec 2022 15:27:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 22:27:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83359oz5jy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: David Masterson In-Reply-To: (message from David Masterson on Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: MEC@stowers.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: David Masterson > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "michel@schi.nz" , > "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" > <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 11:51:29 -0800 > > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Autoload-by-Prefix.html > > > > What you observed will NOT happen if you first run: > > > > (clrhash definition-prefixes) > > Ah! Thank you. In many ways, I still think of Emacs from what I learned > about it in the early 80s (yes, pre-Elisp). I didn't expect this and, > so, didn't investigate the possibility that it's planned (the Info > documentation has gotten huge). Apologies to Eli. No apologies needed, we all learn something new about Emacs every day. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 10 09:02:13 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Dec 2022 14:02:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42924 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p40Qe-0007Pd-R7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 09:02:13 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:42063) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p40Qa-0007PX-I9 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 09:02:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01888240028 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 15:02:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670680923; bh=iE/loLF1nT7uop82WEck0qakh6QAgKhg5wgIM+X47F4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=cRB2j6bH6W9BH1PK2Thp0mqcYm4l5y2IfklxTx2vQZgq+kJRTpzh1VvhrbqqROxMQ AsWrU0QkjSzuf1yabt8ipiXhNs2QmJb5DerfHHA0dSK8RPvYDsrgA9c4a4mDGVmIjL CwbXaDBrZnskapl1X9RCPdiLkO1v7E2gZSflzjpcjwV+3SXuAzA/Sxkl+GGU7q3KHc bQx5RYVyRl3RhuYutaNlz0KGXpx5F1NYDrmvVlBRvNmCjarwLvZ9MlzqBHWJCfUDnV 9ZsH3NctxlgbfC649TGusINdMm15P3ZMEoyXLZ7uo3BJT8Icf8++XkPw5InbhMCQWv buaChdlXdtdhQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NTqMF6dqnz9rxS; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 15:01:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 14:01:58 +0000 Message-ID: <878rjfs6g9.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: David Masterson , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> In my testing, I found a strange case where, in *scratch*, I get: >> >> (message "%s" org-version) >> ;; Error undefined >> ;; Do 'C-h v org-version' >> (message "%s" org-version) >> 9.3 >> >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? Please note that David's recipe is _not_ what I described in the bug report. I am referring to the problem people run into when using M-x package-install. AFAIU, package-install must not depend on the older version of a package being loaded/not loaded. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 04:51:18 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 09:51:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37965 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5OQ1-0007Pc-U6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:18 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:47691) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5OPz-0007PV-Et for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:16 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C704240104 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:07 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671011469; bh=eEar9lDI0ZzeC6utT+dwqfh4waCDbrC7DEv3rFOuqb8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=BKTHCGasZDIeeqlguqGpPaalTosuX6SuHWalZ2JEAuUMYulb9ZZq/wBQMsedyRvxA C4/tk/voikqFEaPKUY2aCO9w1brQXaKgmwmaZzU2e8Xp548KI7bGZzZ0UWQWDLbYy5 UFgb/d3ehTmMuHHg9fQ19oSRmNmLBlTES0VomiFcEVXtRyhegdHRhm8GGMlR8QWizR KnWTqU1WEvhwJcgj6B+xVeK/kWS5gfVBusDQ39d5a7P0vgo3bKtoVAmCIHhrHCG85F 85fe0PdoxXIHkLBV2eSeftlc6su2BgJm+yTOcfzqrGIrBiwC0oYWRDzRzSgks/7Hpd EnavROMbPdcyg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NX9bs6c41z6tnl; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 Message-ID: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: David Masterson , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading may cause unexpected consequences. See https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not being available without loading. https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL I feel confused about the situation. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 08:00:03 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 13:00:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMg-0000AP-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMe-00009O-4P for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMY-0000Ya-Dy; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eaedBL0dDVZaLly6EwNHAUf0uD6bdk4MbUi2fyHjTQs=; b=OllkgFQVEdWX 7w2n/Aa3cO62XpeXyADPN/1Gjbk5uYJLTsiIDy7RadmfCjoTAWcGyuMlN2Z7L49DqDf7SURAQSZY/ mMJr8wwJFNwuPIw2QDoufqj7WEKA9/G+ZFY24wxzz0QXJBPcEhnoV3GvxuAjOwBsK+jOOQ+6592s0 OH2yDuIyHBujsxHd+6KvpA048ESetUQLy2VpFxX+8f/dlYRULQcXC5ulEq+fDj083vWV6ERmHQiml 5ZfKKijkUlMMbz27IddaQUQh/ypwi2g/nq5knnF+IeR6tw2t1hqk/yyhtGYLnqH+YyW75YBRfuXR9 T0MpfJPPpn2unpSzM+zymA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RMX-0007Ql-UK; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:59:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:59:50 +0200 Message-Id: <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Ihor Radchenko , Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: David Masterson , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 > > On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets > loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? > org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I think it's expected, because the doc strings need to be loaded. Stefan, am I right? > I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading > may cause unexpected consequences. See > https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. > At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not > being available without loading. > https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not the best style around here). So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the problem with that variable being "nonexistent"? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 08:37:22 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 13:37:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Rwn-0000dV-Lc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:37:22 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:42315) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Rwk-0000dC-9U for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:37:20 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0F4B240101 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:37:10 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671025032; bh=Gr4nifMs3Zi1HNjroKOduCZ222EKSliwaLCk/EWd9mY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=muhapMOjb9B1Xo0G8ftJ//V1oGn5KH0LCR/txyCEdMd9CNR57ZgSYf1NjpX3tM4m0 tGFoz8njnAp+PEFGARKiwlfoYn7aIrailZqzOwllZ/LjrHEsljuqA9vadSPnnU5ZyP HX+Wtdbf77OGBRFT4lJZgdtoKdsQQzD6VWQegZ5UZ7LM09UsqeeXxTF6+A9TUGzBjQ 84pbSWG2A/xDldzHIwvjxnqZgNLQeQLvlg6RDD1OAFhCeSkoQTmQ6XmaTxE/Qyuf9u V0iQLMDxtRDSZVVczEBvW4tS0HnTBYVOzNDfZPPfmvXeiLk0/0XkLbs6wnb/ABOxfm q/IEqWVAOr5SQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NXGcj1F8Tz6tmN; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:37:08 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:37:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , michel@schi.nz X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading >> may cause unexpected consequences. See >> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm > > I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by > loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. Yes, we plan to do exactly this https://orgmode.org/list/87zgbqqukg.fsf@localhost However, it will be a breaking backward-incompatible change. And we have similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design). Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice. Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages. Including, built-ins, like rect.el. dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages. >> At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not >> being available without loading. >> https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL > > That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is > ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is > loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that > in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not > the best style around here). > > So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the > problem with that variable being "nonexistent"? Agree. See the quote below: https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/25497.41832.663858.836948@gargle.gargle.HOWL/ Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 09:25:27 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 14:25:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39565 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5ShL-0001EU-B6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:27 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:29079) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5ShJ-0001EO-6f for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:25 -0500 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E3C9C440C61; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6F014440989; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:18 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1671027918; bh=/96otOORWWLRbV9VU7Csfw0P98buPkk1QKic9zzYEQE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=HTbQkdBz7fGzZQKgeB/sY/37VKJJVrlroT+DHhOQ82OPs7ndmiPi5DBT6h6SUvh79 rvMxgj60dr6YQqerebMOMXlNgYsF5T9O9y2JO17kTEPu/m6QhUjqYlk90sKIS9ZnGZ dyoLC995mYRrZs7/sqgOXCK/Y4thWIbwLZAx+iQqmbFRYv6EWcSLRhDZlROsmPu/zS Z1xfdL8hM0zOThQNKmD9sX9vi+vKUmijxurcKanBlEkgBBgUO4hyMunMd9ffPkCBHy psm66REiCM8zQRuqah4Ls56ZYiqTJGECo6yqZoT5h9PC63qUupIKW7JuYa0GY5cDkh ascn7q6Xtg/3Q== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.193.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31DBE1202FF; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:18 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:59:50 +0200") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:25:17 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.386 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets >> loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? Yes. See `help-enable-completion-autoload`. >> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading >> may cause unexpected consequences. See >> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm > I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by > loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. Exactly. Merely loading a file should not affect Emacs's behavior in any significant way. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 09:35:43 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 14:35:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39625 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5SrH-0001LV-EH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:43 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:50344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5SrF-0001LN-Tg for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:42 -0500 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 272678078F; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 64CD580723; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:34 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1671028534; bh=P2Z6TSz8LyNM3DixZFbYamYX4fXNuX1vB+9jB3KOs3A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=YyxtmuuxALBl5WnbYVzi/qat/AC+so2R2IPTn0xvvImimR44E2AE7O6bFp/hpu6UD HQ+9d/D3nxEhQfeAVWfAcB9JtukKWg2opEvVYlaArWa+TZKSuNic3OZ/Corjm0FlAj zQAkIxsaLLMWq8lTT0z+9ZEbaHxjIaTkfvO08SERt9VON97Mote8zWxUmy+URfRVwx Ntfw370bimD/hQCDBsTUxoG9EotbehI9vsxZQx/+eojkCGFCmtiX3tt/Wrv6CcxOwn qAR8D8IcFJqjfmpGQfXXH4OviUaJKM0cdo68uJlG73xv57xnlbzYa00nmwnOT6K14P uVLxNfUAH0GMA== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.193.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 21648120409; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:34 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:37:07 +0000") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:32 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.335 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In > particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function > symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design). > Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice. That's true. It can be a balancing act. > Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages. > Including, built-ins, like rect.el. > dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages. Most of them are plain bugs, tho (typically fixed by introducing an autoloaded minor-mode, so the package is activated by enabling the minor mode rather than by `require`ing the package). > Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours > my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor > on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this > ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's > name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not > enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in `describe-variable`. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 11:03:06 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 16:03:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40067 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5UDq-0004gD-23 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:03:06 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com ([209.85.167.43]:38655) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5UDm-0004fq-J1 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:03:04 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id g7so11227009lfv.5 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:03:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lteJDzTQuVoubfadrMxG21LN5xB/lgSpm2MdUrFvpts=; b=XxnzS7tShOQIEWqV+rg4IcitoqI+366uIO7CXBDoEdUElG+hNIEQKR0BVh8I/FB2w+ K0cuAU4aC8uylyqJjMFxXPUrcAnkUmrGGp/4PZmgL3bRyL93cq0u49fZ2SrjTLFufmOc 6t7mLbJFjH9n9pG6VEb1AHJfLXKh4EUPgPi7Yrki43a/WXgoTYqcvlfzL2Z1fOQ4Acrx SW+MW6aK50Vb4UPkvH3WvQw4LP4/j9LLWN+Exrh8zCGwm/GNY9uZjSm3S6byqA52U84j 4EECt/7rB5tQRBH5gESZt92sbfw7SQttdoeb2RKbG9WjGoan66KjehIYz6a3faIEWeXH PXow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=lteJDzTQuVoubfadrMxG21LN5xB/lgSpm2MdUrFvpts=; b=e5ZDnx7ZkGPHyJyX+zyoAlUvrtpsVMUAr3euEYbZk67pz33y5z+ggsaIkiZGpyRJnX 3rS90vlVqw5M6iX9My+BthCKJZO7uIDwyjebj2K3E9rhsSMMu2Ye+PJcUqB9a8uzDSDd JiL0TwEICTUwo9IHsKpifV5rNNywN69YGql+4K59iH1a3uUs9Z5VDVV79A2PX5rJeyHO RLowVLEwZiDjcZ5yb3HHGNJgYua++eYOCSMR9MjFJh5evIHgjmxWWpFMKdHn0XJDeabW n2Hi52fHXMjaL1MWI/joVQXM60i4erS0jLmO06dRq45vv18Q7Svw7S03i0kSuoL+rpP9 hGNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pkZvwIYt3YXKNFiT46cwfyG0i5FGul+NfakYgkl2HcKzP7GXZ2x Sr6ytsS/sFGdMFTTAfmxcvk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf4aACmZ6ZhYM4EzY3rwSIEAqjyqS5aIclKriB4CXfaTq4BImwC1ep9LAMvpJWnb0m6D3LVGeQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2102:b0:4b5:6c36:79a4 with SMTP id q2-20020a056512210200b004b56c3679a4mr6365584lfr.65.1671033776185; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l11-20020a19494b000000b004b551505c29sm852044lfj.218.2022.12.14.08.02.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:02:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:02:53 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier , Ihor Radchenko References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 14/12/2022 21:35, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours >> my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor >> on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this >> ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's >> name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not >> enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. > > AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in > `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in > `describe-variable`. I think, the difference is interactive vs. non-interactive calls rather than `describe-function' vs. `describe-variable'. What misses this feature is `customize-variable'. Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should be added. Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 16:49:33 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 21:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41908 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Zd7-0007Da-LX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:49:33 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-170.mimecast.com ([170.10.129.170]:31024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Zd6-0007DU-53 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:49:32 -0500 Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam11lp2169.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.169]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-439-nh3uFsWRNlCIr196lbySPA-1; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:49:27 -0500 X-MC-Unique: nh3uFsWRNlCIr196lbySPA-1 Received: from DS7PR20MB4671.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:79::16) by SA1PR20MB6193.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:335::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5880.8; 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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: David Masterson , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , "michel@schi.nz" , "59882@debbugs.gnu.org" <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets >loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? >org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. There need not be which is apparently by design: The autoload happens as a consequence of emacs' documented feature to [Auto= load by Prefix](https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/A= utoload-by-Prefix.html)=20 Given that: (equal (gethash "org-mouse-" definition-prefixes) '("org-mouse")) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 23:17:42 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2022 04:17:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42319 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5fgk-0005SR-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:42 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27454) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5fgg-0005SH-TU for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:40 -0500 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0A680100587; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1FAE7100563; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:31 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1671077851; bh=cTCNDK3R12tQfqYzUZBatZn1ck5VzN79QiU2hDzoF3k=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=oXEokMbHC5uifrmBZP7jrhbP6pqPhiYN0lAORF/N7IwcNvkUqkG7RKMx62UiwdFFP Nlk2EmCQ6Px1UkzV8jV1jPwff8HWoWVdJvptpQjH8+C/NZa3S6V/wtDzww3a4rr18O 6LyB0PC434YE9O3RGEOf+bf0QjdHwx2kvuaho86jXq7Nzdm5fqibjna6AqHNRaHMUP PmNAmvX4BoiCQHL/zUg32kGUAwZW29E7+AVi3PEKPORwLrMFx/PjJ1Qe/qKNo/JVfL cFncilFEXL9WSfJOhS8w5GHz1Ac7HFDkippYTy8gl5TbgzAzXa20zSXL1S/tj1w/pW MzKm8sR8NukKg== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.193.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F42012019B; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:30 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> (Max Nikulin's message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:02:53 +0700") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:17:22 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.416 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin [2022-12-14 23:02:53] wrote: > On 14/12/2022 21:35, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours >>> my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor >>> on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this >>> ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's >>> name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not >>> enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. >> AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in >> `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in >> `describe-variable`. > > I think, the difference is interactive vs. non-interactive calls rather than > `describe-function' vs. `describe-variable'. What misses this feature is > `customize-variable'. > > Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of > `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am > aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should > be added. I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. > Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional > dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require > 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 23:56:39 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2022 04:56:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5gIR-0005te-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:56:39 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:56113) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5gIN-0005tW-O7 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:56:37 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35537240027 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 05:56:30 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671080190; bh=nmck62qLXnuZnDkkrWLP7h0AMbOP43DynSDnh+m03lA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NRmYRU22uqvhty3lE2ShptGZu2vaEWiUKVV6IJTJMhINp/cKud0hMQe9zn0VlgTAV vjT2jcQ2EEiXrXll5x4PM9N30L6yleIDdhp8TUl+KI46KP0ZhVFH5+EW9I02dcwF0i b+BR5mygkmDdtb/+ynxnEnl0s7xf1aGfMo+62s4UGw8/HD6r1NCaeI942i3gRzBxVu lPG+AvN14wla1uv2VUsISeU2AHlehAuu+pw2AMAMK568Tk9dUaVAE0bOQzlR/pHafM vNB/7sRlCnQ2MEd9w5ovhwvJaxgFPmypGjrLoh+9Xaakx2T08osv45fAtCCd7YgGPk ifAMPN1VT5L0g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NXg1T1wdpz9rxB; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 05:56:28 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 04:56:16 +0000 Message-ID: <87fsdhw9hr.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Monnier writes: >> Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional >> dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require >> 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. > > Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was > discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic > somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry. And the off-topic is what has been CCed to Org mailing list :) -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 16 07:36:29 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2022 12:36:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49023 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p69wz-0002RS-BY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 07:36:29 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com ([209.85.167.43]:33686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p69wx-0002RM-Ro for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 07:36:28 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id j4so3355660lfk.0 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 04:36:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WH/tpE+/Lb1tAjUgcHxuLprq3s7aV9nqM5GWSmvfaOs=; b=K1Wq0ZL749NQy0MPJjTDmmhkX+qdseekFEyXDw0k0YVEexsWPfIaY7SFsgfSnKo1tt ZqQZxFeO3PEAyAXuiq6FVyG2IhMBaJlsvIalIXlN0mQreaIeSk2lHENlXPuRPB+YX07G ho2EdK2iYfNZd+3x+LUXzEKiKWWHBRfbjFv4lDE7hQwsI1GHlJEuhZ47gSFkLkELAJGh /aqloa3upClaofAEPWb6IiijuNGudBXqN8V7+PifZtv4IiqX3NXyrZXXjjUUgcLHsZ8G GVqswdaLpGZw+5uXdrNo5Ffw+YrF8nDLNeXBigQTVK2/fueJewYSewyOKKpxzUOWJdRK GiGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=WH/tpE+/Lb1tAjUgcHxuLprq3s7aV9nqM5GWSmvfaOs=; b=gMAHB1W/9gC9ncCLVNqrlZOPwF3LyVGbomkNNBcheTep8JNSgoKACgbLvqwLo6/P/D iOxFTu+ZHQBF0EdYuVR001EAi6hiMHLa9uvr1r56lgkuwpipwILfIDAnMO/a+mTiZDIB v8RSkSpj6uNR7ifSNAYCZDwEg75NImnbhV49AoCCuDmBX5qCQkFy2Kh4m4b0guY+JRVu wfzIR+/NZadn0JIaIX/jC/pN3XaN2RZvTO4WZI6HUzILNJzYLs/msTrIPJ7bGKXK3KRt 5fVfLdPghzcY1r32Q93l0PdmGSkYjncO4G10Hbx4A8MEmexI7U169PFYaOfzd0JRneTU VHzA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pm09SjnsOH6rUysuqVno8J92z3Pki0aHjlIRSRFJsVGeognIdoD h3gImVCfIXaZlLZmF71/x+s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf59ePbu7cbepzM24SyOxSGcFUiB2tB568RbtVaLVxdRGA0Sy6cKDGZl0SaNcBiIC9KGPY0TZA== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:539b:0:b0:4b5:5efb:7d26 with SMTP id g27-20020ac2539b000000b004b55efb7d26mr8037632lfh.37.1671194181801; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 04:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s10-20020a056512214a00b004b52f4ea0d3sm207082lfr.192.2022.12.16.04.36.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Dec 2022 04:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 19:36:18 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 15/12/2022 11:17, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Max Nikulin [2022-12-14 23:02:53] wrote: >> Completion failure for "org-to" happened because result of >> `register-definition-prefixes' calls is not considered as options. I am >> aware that it may give false positives, but I still believe they should >> be added. > > I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. My bad. "org-go" is completed to "org--goto" while "org-goto-" is not offered. The latter might be a variant because "org-goto" is registered as an autoload prefix. Ihor kindly created https://debbugs.gnu.org/60085 "`help-enable-autoload' is not fully obeyed", so it is better to discuss it there. >> Though I believe that org mixed version issue happens due to transitional >> dependency of some third party package on org or something like (require >> 'org-protocol) that can not be loaded on demand. > > Hmm... indeed the "Subject:" talks about mixed versions, yet I was > discussing something not directly related. Looks like I got off-topic > somewhere along the way without noticing, sorry. I have impression that there is no recipe how to reproduce this bug yet, just reports that people have faced it. So aspects of autoload may be considered as a part of brainstorm. Other ideas when built-in Org version may be loaded too early: - restoring previous session. - user configured Org agenda as startup buffer. Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new version by package-install. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 16 09:48:00 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2022 14:48:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49785 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6C0G-0006US-Ei for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 09:48:00 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:41143) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6C0B-0006TZ-EX for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 09:47:58 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 879E724002C for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:47:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671202069; bh=Jd3XG4K6OXOw/75rLVJONb637HI/HOXWYQjD+lgxh7s=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=gk3lLfmHmRA8iRZGPQuj9km8hgIq7aAxSdLJY1MitpTJbXoRbJeJsxdkxhMs4xsV6 nXhDVqOiEtHsYrLvwgfpJcXPba/wR7y9mOuRcQkpeaEO3u7OjhZa7nQIY4gy1qjlCj DF29Jxir5GZHMqkZHqSs2MDjv4MYcID1scUnJZLy+RlJCyhU7UqF3lyJiPt5vVkrzr wht2HMOtLWeALRZKNeKTjuF8DWBX8Fq9yLh/r8CRg6GEmz9JlSAGnSN86sbc1f64m/ yFWLePYjYbKBohT7UrVe2VBQPVWGjbGYj7tO6Al/2Uk7HzSNp7CDFhdkWklYpFFOrt LoeHM2+3JTYgQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NYX5G57nmz6tnh; Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:47:46 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 14:47:42 +0000 Message-ID: <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin writes: > I have impression that there is no recipe how to reproduce this bug yet, > just reports that people have faced it. So aspects of autoload may be > considered as a part of brainstorm. > > Other ideas when built-in Org version may be loaded too early: > - restoring previous session. > - user configured Org agenda as startup buffer. > > Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new > version by package-install. Yes. It is what appears to be happening: https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10999 -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 18 10:24:36 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Dec 2022 15:24:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6vWm-0006mi-C2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:24:36 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f180.google.com ([209.85.208.180]:36394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6vWj-0006mX-IP for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:24:34 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f180.google.com with SMTP id n1so6848774ljg.3 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 07:24:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=I0w9solaxEGBNfzBBFBWgWofPUUNqUjsrCM9Z4sP+5Q=; b=e7IsJUbg4XSC2tu8eJjuAAm1MMvzSpkiKUbDsCMtR9rtZwdrY8wKT8o04o2MqJ2At7 dtId5UYOP1XjEpk/3T89JtmwldlfBx63gEKpSx2HChR8qr5/bEKth1yROKXBYJ76W2wJ ElaGZ5q41SdK7LMQecdel1szpCkTCpfrZio2JUB/+prhGn8nR+AWSlzk0X8xM29Gw73T PLGiIRcEKXJIXNcl3pKC5N/yAAq/fPXxFuvc/tsSmd1BiR3p/BtV3sgqVNQTtUgttaVl bWjdwyXKjferN+g+bxgXsutHXfFjEzFsOIhPi2N94kqFlQTVbl1It3Z3EJ+snar1g6RX kP5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=I0w9solaxEGBNfzBBFBWgWofPUUNqUjsrCM9Z4sP+5Q=; b=O/NtcmnkKlZ5cQ4lsKgpynkVotJYwYFzSLZTCCUfThsC3MI3iv9Fouu/L2IyPCQlGL Dt/d3ZZrbn1slAWzFGun9TsyZykBMBIz38czT+HGTon+szCxW/WDxkF6p2OtJoh33e2C GDDi18WSimDJUmh1tgB60/Sw3El3WO4O/7eEx7WwIMTUZIL7QVRAV1iLYxCZp8+ccwNz Ce4SgarW8vK4PkkdZgeJRKtv5iymn/CTshLX5uqAyiU9Bk5Erb/e3tNTS7Qc0xUSC1VX 9wGpTeQRJOzyXU5J+OVW1SQhTK5szYoxqAdHMp2/Txt9+bmctY1vAMs7qH19RUydDHor QCgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpHwiOa5p37+oM2DIpTUJxhNpmnEfMOUgnIDnhgPuSo9cShrfGP QmhbzxdxDaRTv6l4F894xbY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvke/AgbA9krlHIeWz5/dAC/9urz1tYQzRhNVM2EDmLkTSMfHhj0fCzDZPOH/KfWzPOvegwcw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c06:0:b0:27e:521c:92ca with SMTP id s6-20020a2e9c06000000b0027e521c92camr4143080lji.19.1671377067372; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 07:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h18-20020a19ca52000000b004b55075f813sm845765lfj.227.2022.12.18.07.24.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Dec 2022 07:24:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 22:24:24 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 16/12/2022 21:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Can it happen that already loaded version affects compilation of a new >> version by package-install. > > Yes. It is what appears to be happening: > > https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10996 > https://irreal.org/blog/?p=10999 I would not call it steps to reproduce. From my point of view, there is a number of issues with updating of packages from emacs session. 1. If compilation of a package failed then it is not withdrawn from the load path. 2. There is no reliable way to determine if package compilation failed. (byte-recompile-directory DIR 0 t) returns human readable string, not signalling an error or returning a value convenient to check in the code. It is the cause of the previous issue. 3. Emacs package system is not ready for complex multifile packages containing macro definitions. It does not push user to update packages just after emacs restart in a clean state. As a result, files may be compiled with old or missed macro definitions. 4. Because of the item 2 a package has no chance to implement reliable internal sanity check that prevents updating to a broken state. I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <= 9.5. - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" Result: byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version Notice attempt to load Org-9.6 despite warnings and even error during update: > Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-C.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:49 2022 > Entering directory ‘/home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/’ > > In end of data: > ob-C.el:509:1:Warning: the function ‘org-assert-version’ is not known to be > defined. ... > Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-matlab.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:50 2022 > ob-matlab.el:43:1:Error: Symbol’s function definition is void: org-assert-version So emacs can not handle update of a package with changed macro definitions when they reside in another package file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 18 10:40:56 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Dec 2022 15:40:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6vma-0006zB-Kq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:56 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:52441) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p6vmZ-0006z5-10 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:55 -0500 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 824F2440F2F; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id AB2434401BE; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:47 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1671378047; bh=86gF1hoBgjm8HufTIRe5F9ukXsOLjO18YHHelTvsBk8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=i7PZXJelGvuZpwwZLh2P57S9dZ8RiM7ciBWGm48bVrZ1EhqYhvrOi0OF7EgPAMku+ Gl3KtwMivrMnCywrXdVIvRzVS5+e7WNwZdR29e90LtqJzM7Sng8TpiUlnNZoJpf47P 5u21ZslnP/yv7/72RFsUqcc73Mf3Z4ulufqKe5Eh/jWQ/vioDlK530JOwU3TqZcBlQ HrbhDSG6Cauhc3uYTSGgs0y08LakaZfKhf7cFDAfVDmcjrMs7bfKYVGULdH0lOtk+7 cbD2spROsRJiai0hmL3mTHHalEhe9Jwa3iqfzigs4rytON+Et2vnFhf2AtjgMtiTnx mofyTHGp5WE4A== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.200.228]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7964B120D6D; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:47 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> (Max Nikulin's message of "Sun, 18 Dec 2022 22:24:24 +0700") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:40:39 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.422 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened file= s. > - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. > - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" > > Result: > byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version Hmm... there's code in `package.el` intended to avoid that problem, but clearly it's failing here. Could Someone=E2=84=A2 investigate why that code doesn't do its job. The code in question is in `package--reload-previously-loaded` and my understanding is that it should cause `org-macs` to be reloaded from the Org-9.6 version of the code before the new code gets compiled, and that new version does define the `org-assert-version` version, so those macro calls should then be compiled correctly. [ The approach used in `package--reload-previously-loaded` has its weaknesses, but AFAIK it *should* be able to avoid the above error. ] Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 25 04:49:10 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2022 09:49:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9Nd0-0006A2-8M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 04:49:10 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:53713) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9Ncy-00069g-BU for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 04:49:08 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE726240226 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:49:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671961742; bh=mO9Ss+dDTGw0/AuxxsaELpvye0pxsTZYonw8Tzn0irs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=D8FGCJcgZ+osWzD3MEFYwru3Ja6R3+4gQj9/mPZ/l8tkHByfjOFUOuW5sDa4Z7V5U P6t1yCiRpSzWowvFb2JVBJ1lZlFer/VwQP5/pdlYl7ZRTFDD0LjVRLc5oukvshfTyU aA7Occ6Cp/2yQ5WWk8VWlhDen+1oPRAdqmp5fL58L9GnvHM4QwWMbBrY2grj87Q6Vh 9cg8JV0e1dvP8v1ZU7K/sTDT9QRNnMv6W1gGIFERizwhYJB2yRhzT0W4QGDmtGOoBD PMmBvgmYWTF0GSswgQHxr3DE72KrqUoYLEQFmj22n70vpCOT9TQyMjL1Jhs5dYdQxq 5aD0xbOqksjFA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Nfx2M13yPz6tmJ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:48:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 09:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin writes: > I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <= > 9.5. > > - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. > - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. > - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" > > Result: > byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . 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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z29-20020a19505d000000b004ab52b0bcf9sm1342856lfj.207.2022.12.25.03.46.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Dec 2022 03:46:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 18:46:37 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 18/12/2022 22:40, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Could Someone™ investigate why that code > doesn't do its job. > > The code in question is in `package--reload-previously-loaded` and > my understanding is that it should cause `org-macs` to be reloaded I do not see obvious flaws in `package--reload-previously-loaded' code. My guess is that we get reports from users who have installed released versions of emacs. Notice that my complain concerning failure `byte-recompile-directory', hidden from its caller, is still valid. On 25/12/2022 16:48, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Max Nikulin writes: > >> I have tried the following in Emacs-27. For Emacs >= 29 add -L to Org <= >> 9.5. Stefan convinced me that I was too optimistic concerning Emacs-29. >> - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. >> - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. >> - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" >> >> Result: >> byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version > > I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to > reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange. I tried it once more in a minimal LXC container with Ubuntu-22.04 LTS jammy. This time I even removed the elpa-org-9.5.2 system package, so built-in version of org is really used. So, emacs-27 - emacs -l org - M-x list-packages RET - / n org RET - move cursor to org, install it - i x y - compilation buffers pops up with warning and errors. Due to "-l org" some libraries like org, org-macs, ob are loaded. Files that `require' already loaded libraries generate warnings Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-R.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:49 2022 In end of data: ob-R.el:562:1:Warning: the function ‘org-assert-version’ is not known to be defined. because `org-assert-version' is defined in org-macs.el, but the old version without it is already loaded. Call to `org-assert-version' is just added to the .elc file. E.g. org-keys.el produce the same warning. Another case is Compiling file /home/emcs/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.6/ob-matlab.el at Sun Dec 18 04:30:50 2022 ob-matlab.el:43:1:Error: Symbol’s function definition is void: org-assert-version This file contains "(require 'ob-octave)". Attempt of load new version of ob-octave fails because during execution of it contents causes an error due to the `org-assert-version' call. In particular, compilation of org.el fails because the new version has new "(require 'org-fold)" and the latter also tries to call undefined `org-assert-version'. So at this point we have partially compiled broken install. Some files are not compiled, others have call to `org-assert-version' instead of its expansion. Let's try to start emacs again and load org. Since org.el is not compiled, "(org-assert-version)" inside it is unable to catch any problem due to mixed-version compilation. Now `org-release' returns new version. The failure happens during "(require 'org-keys)" that was compiled with the warning. Debugger entered--Lisp error: (invalid-function org-assert-version) org-assert-version() byte-code("\300\301!\210\302 \210\300\303!\210\300\304!\207" [require org-macs org-assert-version cl-lib oc] 2) require(org-keys) So we have an obscure load time error. I would say that compile *error* messages are obscure as well because it is unclear that errors happen in `require'. E.g. when compiling org-matlab.el the reported line number is for "(require 'ob-maxima)" while compiling of ob.maxima.el finished with a warning, not an error and it is really confusing. "ob-octave:34:" in addition to "ob-matlab:43:" during compiling of ob-matlab.el would be more informative. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 26 03:45:11 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2022 08:45:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50731 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9j6c-0006vq-Qp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 03:45:11 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:46763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9j6b-0006vd-KD for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 03:45:10 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E07A2401CD for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:45:03 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1672044304; bh=x3MTZw/wuPxFLlEldXH1N4sWbUKD+tYL0ejmXFmfN/c=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=FajJgpmy/jAVIk9Frl8DU+2x9/3cIzXd8swigPF+gvH1ooSx6z4S73o8crE6sZSoU 4M+7Ulel08Rff963nElW+hTFYnEf6VI/TlNB9eRwMAFWk2cVEVb873924WtzTuSXmi mU8Bhz77/JxtxHGmpFe9GKMTZCj04x8qUsHBQx6G/gVQL/XLvgCPR2ZLk2WXMf/Ke7 M1eDSXMlDdAcCXpl3s54lrMiVUY7Uq1TVuNPF1fYu56nt7LlCvRtIgzUMhCvFDJM4c dfccTCzbx97GOre8ovK8DACjDi6u1L9wUNfbq7n3wqSZ7YnZ5UhCIELzgm8iqUHRTu QdmpFhqNOM0KA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NgWZ53cddz6tmK; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:45:01 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 08:44:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin writes: >> I tried to follow these steps, but unfortunately I am unable to >> reproduce. Everything works fine using Emacs 27 on my side. Strange. > > I tried it once more in a minimal LXC container with Ubuntu-22.04 LTS=20 > jammy. This time I even removed the elpa-org-9.5.2 system package, so=20 > built-in version of org is really used. So, emacs-27 > > - emacs -l org > - M-x list-packages RET > - / n org RET > - move cursor to org, install it On my side, it will give nothing useful: the package list is not updated and I get: Package org is built-in. Status: Built-In. Version: 9.4.4 Summary: Export Framework for Org Mode Detailed steps I tried (with package refresh) using with-emacs.sh [1]: 1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org 2. M-x package-list-packages RET 3. C-s outline-based RET 4. RET 5. C-x o C-s instal RET 6. RET y 7. The warnings buffer appears, but only contains Warning (defvaralias): Overwriting value of =E2=80=98org-tab-first-hook= =E2=80=99 by aliasing to =E2=80=98org-cycle-tab-first-hook=E2=80=99 [1] https://github.com/alphapapa/with-emacs.sh --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 26 06:02:16 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2022 11:02:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50827 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9lFH-00028L-Rg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 06:02:16 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:57611) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9lFF-000288-Qw for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 06:02:14 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE0B2401AD for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 12:02:05 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1672052527; bh=oR+pSsBJfC3aSh4mrKtMXVvyHQtoFP68BXjhc+wI5Gw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=NDfVBwHuexi6X3U4WAb6a3csePd/dqsak7dCbN38dYD+Q+QAyJkUZP4qJEUgPa4LN msGDAz9ZPXr1n6bB7zJbqqI/G0dU9VByB1g65/BYttNGOJLzn/n3mwyRBfWTr9Z3pP eTC0u5JWixa+h/H6fq+h3xk0VxxSMcVoCNCfdiD9TLnnQbvzb0ieXpChYSYn6HzkFM f/Kev09TDOsQhzUig9GeYixLsxNMA2D6k46AeLjuMnw0S6cJJUTJO3FIZ5CVf7F2Tp QldUfstx0GTX50NDSjlxXZGEheXZuY9ZMrTvHEO/k5m39sCIAOL8AgAT0J6b6kEDkR Lk91+4KoBBZyQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NgZcD3S4Tz6tnl; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 11:01:59 +0000 Message-ID: <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko writes: > 1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org I was finally able to reproduce using emacs-26. Maybe your Emacs 27 is older than mine? I have GNU Emacs 27.2 I also tried with Emacs 28. Not able to reproduce. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 26 07:26:02 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Dec 2022 12:26:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9mYM-0006qU-65 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 07:26:02 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f171.google.com ([209.85.208.171]:42719) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p9mYI-0006q1-LO for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 07:26:00 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f171.google.com with SMTP id v23so990049ljj.9 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 04:25:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rcySI7FpeAuI2+Kv3oNvyJibMr37rOz1UCCTULFlLHU=; b=K9SVAhdl9D49Y2P5tPrhiYLehzyFRPFYlxYdoXHNRng4oKUrwhBOim1CntU9hNLaVN Wr1Q65tt8/Q+S6VxLbela0rW3NOifKQQCowLN//DK9EFhvRP1//TykzyYvPjWzZgu35i OhPoJ5d2Y8tZrwkloBudryq5Afju8bb5GNidFiylXQ6OlOpETpKvAsqMVby+mx6YfBxb vlJXJ8BgGRuk9tFQze7PAhQ4ezYOyCJflTFzQS/v0OyjWxGtMRm8Apa3A53FpBGx+WKD 9/U4BxEzj+seFWIP9Per/fuPeeVwvGDNYkgLm9KOmnImZbWsHL8X38FZkPw77Ky1XdRJ GBCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rcySI7FpeAuI2+Kv3oNvyJibMr37rOz1UCCTULFlLHU=; b=VZ+Vc0RhSGKh7/vSAT36mDIPOSyk+EnL8zoMRRDpjEYC8EU4rV3ZugoK4yw3ZtEIoG 54DO3CdJt132VAIctkhu7OXkN0eJvSjVJjxco87+5T6Lh3XLtOHy3LcPopjEL8HBD5h8 qBdBNZjvKZz1LU58lDq9Ny6sqPOxqxSNTkoCPhmaguKiLntEBA2M9P6NycAWOOQOUq8E T5FXcXeHyk/jL7XSNvzSINKMnWzrV/rGxFbXeWJCZhae4iCpGKXBwOA/44dhJjsAzyQd JswADyOPSQTPrqqowG8tulKLnvVXzRb0iogqo4PWzFtjmxuKT8L1dCSsMVX/XgyFJf1x wjYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kq2nrCCuBT68U3E4aRbiybeMb8ZY1A2AlWH4h1KLghUgTP02235 8oWGAQbIGx1XzVJlndRppRo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsTFg5cnv8z95RWvO3XyrX6tdgbaAAwiImTcXwZPMW+jc8zyaHB8eVuPPkvjLx1/HsKB7kEkw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:c9b:b0:277:492b:9551 with SMTP id bz27-20020a05651c0c9b00b00277492b9551mr6488245ljb.0.1672057552435; Mon, 26 Dec 2022 04:25:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m15-20020a2eb6cf000000b0027fc54f8bf0sm81747ljo.35.2022.12.26.04.25.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Dec 2022 04:25:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 19:25:49 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko References: <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 26/12/2022 18:01, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Ihor Radchenko writes: >> 1. ~/Git/with-emacs.sh/with-emacs.sh -e emacs-27 -O -- -l org > I was finally able to reproduce using emacs-26. > > Maybe your Emacs 27 is older than mine? I have GNU Emacs 27.2 Debian stable and Ubuntu LTS have Emacs-27.1 only, so I am testing 1:27.1+1-3ubuntu5 Following the with-emacs.sh script I have tried mkdir /tmp/emcs emacs --quick --eval '(setq user-emacs-directory "/tmp/emcs/")' --eval '(setq user-init-file "/tmp/emcs/init.el")' -l package --eval '(setq package-user-dir "/tmp/emcs/elpa/")' --eval '(package-initialize)' --eval '(package-refresh-contents)' -l org I had no problem to select Org-9.6 from the buffer generated by `list-packages'. Compilation errors and the error during next startup are the same as I reported before. I found just single commit to lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el between emacs-27.1 and emacs-27.2: 1fc9de4b81c 2020-10-30 19:20:24 -0700 Glenn Morris: Improve reproducibility of generated -pkg.el files So I am still surprised that you can not reproduce the issue. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 27 04:47:34 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2022 09:47:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54735 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pA6YY-0004yP-1Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:47:34 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:39945) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pA6YW-0004y7-4e for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:47:32 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60F202400CE for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:47:25 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1672134446; bh=3FgRTRPzZORjiE0JZ9CA+acltlfs77Wfprr5NZ83jHk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=H1VjQwuPcbCIG2cZvO34Xjv7nGjPvkHTdl2JU0FXLj2U7mICEOtjdc1S0PnOPnKsK 4xzovQLOpsF8AxZvgEEYecJmmKnsKH4u/sSBqEmdcLzW7GhKAKP8fjAW1tognd5lIt gdX55fS+7sfxBFXy/nGhxo1JMtOom8/nX7mwgO1BfoB+M3kwmKfjsa/IU95LUc4DHa erCSnoWdolaFy/VATpXyNRlxsuVF5o+mkGPiMLeSWogQwZj2/gQiE0mNgKbFOXNbbr qLtfWphGR+GUJ0flRSE+N6wjpfs+hAgxzdn3hgac6xFMX8uJugiAO6jgjcyV+CRRGK MhGQjouZ58+yg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Nh8vc0fZhz9rxD; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 10:47:24 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> References: <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 09:47:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin writes: > I found just single commit to lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el between > emacs-27.1 and emacs-27.2: > > 1fc9de4b81c 2020-10-30 19:20:24 -0700 Glenn Morris: Improve > reproducibility of generated -pkg.el files > > So I am still surprised that you can not reproduce the issue. Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases or it is also something to do with OS environment. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 27 04:56:41 2022 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Dec 2022 09:56:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pA6hN-0005GF-Mn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:56:41 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com ([209.85.167.41]:46714) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pA6hM-0005G1-3M for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 04:56:40 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id bp15so18919894lfb.13 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 01:56:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KeTUl+U64F3NJWa0C5o5tU3Fq9i6V6jSx8GzKvOiavg=; b=KMUW6y4PkrpDXKuLJeVQO/FVWOYJONps+mtw95AIcqP0mfCDWMc1nFaSA5hdQVKm22 xP6vidNYifs1WrNYlccTeyKBiZszy9FcbIpLImwPd9Vt7X8u6/KgzFBY6EilHyRsjIRg ct/gcfrheEhP8shcU2OJWriLPc6KWgxUPjz9447L4mUngcDnpRyBKrLLTHEZPJudA9F0 smvGPGbZRebU5n0tWiSr+ydzsq0afblkozuKSkKGf7bZ3sCunoJjVUKXwQtTJAIfzrNL YSc+U+3iDk9EfZ1rN9z+M0DOHH+5z8A3vcI7H9a1vf2lYALqsGVi8nng+LfSJl5UMTwq CoSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=KeTUl+U64F3NJWa0C5o5tU3Fq9i6V6jSx8GzKvOiavg=; b=cHkdDwsOezEZGyaOHYTQ4OWfn+e70T+VWniv7jnYurp+uiZYk88RFfWWvRVRwMgzzo Gs1P8QTWvAb9lDPdTE/StW80Hy6VYPaYjeyVNXtLnPcYGVXMn3gCnSielloXvND9vsNS qdxONWHewh8QkgvAUcdsfL4k6GmPQxoEV3vSeLunDL0yNLGMXef0BPU3H/5y3BgqoLXW SCz9lcUg1oqrz9eZ1cb/yGkU0mxwmpagDU1dJHn7ep2qvuXl/Z3LjG66uTLGh4g+bYx3 wNbsnsIuOvGOPj0AV/qumchHHkVNUmalet1AI06n1Q5SNw6+QmH1pDqSENAZpnb5xbVq OQKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krq8mCBfAhd1kgSVf/8u/ZC8tnTsgLzUTd4e6vSKjSM8Fqwx6wx yYaRhZauH+lc1Y3F8iS+U8A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvq6iDIBbC0Fg0+flwpXREGbjbwGD2mejnCFRpHiMbCtMErlJUA8XNbtMgIZ4zc5kfbTW/qfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:c1c:b0:4a4:68b9:60b0 with SMTP id z28-20020a0565120c1c00b004a468b960b0mr7266184lfu.59.1672134993850; Tue, 27 Dec 2022 01:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id h13-20020a05651211cd00b004a2511b8224sm2146406lfr.103.2022.12.27.01.56.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Dec 2022 01:56:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 16:56:31 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Ihor Radchenko References: <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? > The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases > or it is also something to do with OS environment. I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level of complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to undefined macros. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 03 06:04:49 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2023 11:04:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNts9-0007gy-2V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:04:49 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:37631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNtpV-0007dC-2H for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:04:48 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECBB62403BC for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 12:01:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675422112; bh=+LoHpPlnZuStpBn8PhQz9dDqfMRqmzvGIxqv6DBNEe8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=JkzRHEEvx8wO3T42hSpZ9haKB0XbQGP5fHyNbjP3a1sfwbWoUQl0a8KXglfbNcMlq gQ/Po64h44bvzUsLIyNzIQQi/PyGbGHpIBoalPdU1ME5u4mWF7E2L9OLw4ODU778qQ WugF/oAH2HNeyWy1khgqVeRCqjQOmYa1tjDxRCe12itBUnYlHiQCIroZqcmVsiM1Ij Yhrx6vxm8/v9kfoV5ac8Uc303laXn5fwfQWIFq3/V7jBGKC5WaFjqepk+nxHAp/yi0 RKu9BDW2lJMTpOEvmz3cyavT9nK6GN40I5k/0ridIeO31npcbsvTQhoFtumX+1oD3D nFYLKriwujf/g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4P7Xls52S5z6tmQ; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 12:01:45 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> References: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Max Nikulin writes: > On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? >> The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releases >> or it is also something to do with OS environment. > > I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile > buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' > warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level of > complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to > undefined macros. I asked people around to test using Debian, and we do have a confirmation that Debian + Emacs 27 and Debian + Emacs 28 do trigger the error. I also installed Debian 11.6.0 on virtual machine, and I was also able to trigger the error, following the provided steps, using the Emacs 27 installed via apt-get. The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release also suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs). -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 03 07:16:16 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2023 12:16:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36652 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNuzH-0001DK-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39402) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pNuzA-0001D1-51 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:15 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNuz4-0005NC-5w; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=DrRfLXdcREZQfVcOO0Pka3FeRParDkAOtggvMFX3Sic=; b=EWRTvu82MZWd ippBUe3WG/5bLHuQjqmBqt5YCqMqWDVofgBR/WrfXtgBL2hYOY3fhr2lE3pFuu0ABSXc72j+/F4J6 +dD3hqe1CeIsbXBjLwgOYh32ualsEpZD0LltbxLWtZ1tT1lpvPbr/3DviIVALhDRf8uuXhj8Gluqo ihKFS1yP853tABGEL2Gr9soAAR2IWPs3W1cBO4fwQFfhYUtI4x/DeZiZVzqaWbRvjP/meXoNdl9pN Hy4fA+raUgWe1Q5skF2Ce6HzrFSbMpJINPpzk1Cs0tzNNjbKY15VvVOOvqSK4o1+sQtRn6ifNilD2 ockI2qCCyUi6DDVTwqtmCw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNuyq-0002jA-Oc; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 07:16:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 14:15:52 +0200 Message-Id: <83lelfuepz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Ihor Radchenko , Sean Whitton , rlb@defaultvalue.org In-Reply-To: <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: manikulin@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eli > Zaretskii , 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2023 11:02:21 +0000 > > Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a > closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release also > suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in > the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs). I don't know enough about package.el's peculiarities, sorry. And my plate is too full ATM. So I'm afraid someone else will have to investigate this. (I think Debian downstream maintainers are the natural candidates, so I've taken the liberty of CC'ing them.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 14 17:54:31 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 22:54:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57310 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pS4Bz-0005Q4-4F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:54:31 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:44087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pS4Bx-0005Pq-86 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:54:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1676415263; bh=hmHcuhIrYYNUBOzwI0AxF3+6gM+aBQtwf1gSRYHYPs4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=o90U0CJOBbsimFj9dX+LiJO/RnNCxMqmRbaxGBp+AYa9KfuG/NvSzhrtgn8FS+4hp FHcQj0drKgQmFhmZPggh6cXJc/c5LNsdy9C2x+X482tQPwanVxXDxaUcu/64t+wLxp BYxv+RqlXIz2T/HzBuBAtV8f2wqKQCxjedVJN3csUGLKWdXyOPgq/BC5YhVgPYBXmu ag7ghlPYXr7XATjLnamszvhuGB2M3xExCN80Wu7/H8uFyVLy2p2mdiK0C0b9J/G0pd 677+1z2ZoP4v/aBSPBBxDz3QouaBmy3ozZWRahDAFGsfTAc66etEwdHDkvr+7TqvJH q+kmkwp2lAg2Q== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from localhost ([95.90.234.101]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCKBc-1pJqzl06rq-009SvY; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:54:23 +0100 From: Gregor Zattler To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> References: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> Mail-Followup-To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:53:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NVb33sCNzmNQarK5uPdalqmePp7BG/pU0GIUYg4nA3SIRxQ9NSQ 1LLeOT5HbC/yGhJmi2j6uBhDu3DReX19jR7LCFUVqn6AGYj9zd8AdkuHW24yCQ5Axm/12W1 IUAJ0QzISIHc3uoo7nK5DRCLbnCA4qWXCG/+bhgwOSVhLT2PeY/wsKEzG7DalqB5ymxRBLX WJylG/wgX2VIwzQh1dejg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:QdfGF+j9Ei4=;pSM6SOmCYIcG8V21YYiPI37cDmR 9ztou05SrHKTtC+nSQxNPe07VOVgNq0h9NUe/9kdxhXCmm1vieKzUQzON3BWLz+0dPElGCJJJ raUO8b+Cca2WO2ZYe3+LFBCTCR6IENkcG9L/WRKSofvZuZcp9fhlw61FhPAlKhnEBsRhMp7Dw BAZMdigvOXj5Jtc09lkAZx/J7iGqrOqFYZdSNz7gg2swr2DFoam3hmnQ0rSBpZ5YPKpfgzHX5 uJRXP7e603lmywRTk3FczkTN9Xbos7NbHjLQv/JkztzlQLlcr31Gk4M25ia+ghUOcCdWnzIOU UxKYKDJaFlvsnphgHWBLKlhO3W5ZdFpVDhq7BvTj5IM1Kdpuj00RmPaTwKRoPRZ7BToDYf6Ar zoO7En30860783nctWWllg86TBZ57/AoiLS42wfk7rVgnpL+O15xYfKywYRgbfGmWjiaW7Cej GdJMX29ed+Nmq5qe2xSwBosr06YhiTQ+ehbeomE1Euu4k/xPr2l6AH+1Ljt9FoWyaFC9pdmVo X6Sz1HUGhPHMfSmiP+IsatUsy29GLcIm+du6unJTc360Q6jnVTZQ79wyMjBCR/dK8IGuf4PMP Dph3dzBpbKiNEkCO/rufvMP3SM9o9V7hvZ+T13QtH+XgQb/Pa/S+ks7px9Kw9mf+2drsHViwJ sWKP7mmA9hT/KXioUkvbYwUMcI893rDm3lEfs0di77dTIOP3P3tqykj5kP9R2a0yZsx5kzvMX uUhLuwEGJbBLQWmtNpK2x3V3uCl+FwDqPaoE8RfeyqcGmfb7oK2cq/5ESFhLZIRZHB7SZWB3x 1BgGDdbhx+XG7WXHFZd47LfO1u039PUVSJ1ROD8MSDZkImCI8Q7+3UAeSYqxGmWa7DVK6q+5d UqtmnFtEPRgSx3/AcrsM/E9iZzE/wWDMtvqdWfGmv1Q2RCjvVop/EokbSfAP8Z7TEGxldMgzt aW5yBA== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Tim, org-mode and emacs developers, * Tim Cross [2023-02-04; 07:01 +11]: > Ihor Radchenko writes: >> Max Nikulin writes: >>> On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >>>> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? >>>> The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs relea= ses >>>> or it is also something to do with OS environment. >>> I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile >>> buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' >>> warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level o= f >>> complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to >>> undefined macros. >> >> I asked people around to test using Debian, and we do have a >> confirmation that Debian + Emacs 27 and Debian + Emacs 28 do trigger th= e >> error. >> >> I also installed Debian 11.6.0 on virtual machine, and I was also able = to >> trigger the error, following the provided steps, using the Emacs 27 >> installed via apt-get. >> >> The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of >> Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. >> >> Considering the popularity of Debian-based distros, may someone take a >> closer look on what may be going on? Since the latest Emacs release als= o >> suffers from the problem, I am afraid that the issue will be present in >> the coming Emacs 29 as well (I recall no related fixes in recent Emacs)= . > > I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian > does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard > Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple > versions of Emacs installed at the same time. that would be /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup.el Ciao; Gregor =2D- -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 16 07:14:50 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2023 12:14:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSdA2-0007cN-Cu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 07:14:50 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-f178.google.com ([209.85.208.178]:44025) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSdA0-0007cB-RQ for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 07:14:49 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-f178.google.com with SMTP id g14so1699692ljh.10 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 04:14:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HTJrsUzUtFe5e4F9yDqULaPad9Pjs8G5fuJfA+nTuRo=; b=pFIFdTMaalTlBfucdG3AtTQQ6Xvrk8hf4ddg4XdBPzYBoTn4vu+MrBUd2kvRZa/uNE cWJ0G77ZrrM+d03hYyIO+8iBLVQgCgV1NBg06EzrBnD+e05wzz2ym5dQ9KLaTjvviV5A gCk8BGH+f3BD/ntVK0UKWJ9U4dDZmgufADst2cd+1uOBtUE7VB0gqadUKNdjEEom0/Ib 0+h+L1mAC0jZsoK1ntNzTeigAC85Et+WaVr55DNG4ep+/H5WknVV5OrlFCWZf98yy5Zu QrEr5tUJeNpgk9gLnLevra4mICo1g1E7YKVbNWgaXY1KtVtGoO5A3TiNE82mXrM8FecO 3Cag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=HTJrsUzUtFe5e4F9yDqULaPad9Pjs8G5fuJfA+nTuRo=; b=4UPhgV9qKWZ75ZkGYgenN59KKii8vAbZZpKHm51ELKYrjarWleQM9M9cAn5KRTa5DF vGdDESDfb3pzZeYONJlkONoLozvctjZmevlqPOg1MJpNwRqcXLZ9dAYduS3p92yYiyd+ HJZ53ioabKA/IJiePlcDTwGJ1wd+nvZQP3uYOjo9Oas2caRxeaft0XvFsxtBNyYcP0Ey 7YVDxtj5XZAYYRqjf11AowY3I59LeZvpLCVQlR74pSvzm+P5Pqc3vC1gvREm0pKCS34W cCyT5j/8cjrFdvPuvPrtbbSOXGZwxJNaHm5I8Pw6z0JvyBycTZhIgH6/F5kTsGzH3QBI qRrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWXhokmmSkbRWrjzDXHIHHdheqvc/pTFMbTiZUVvcTrda7d+dOo G03dyq/vJrSWAHi4a6oS6cohHC+gpSw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+c3Dbx2ZHwN0sVfipqZ303sIcMdXIPHOFecFelxTrZTJNKyxin0Lh8/MzupxMUfAb/44J6JQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7d15:0:b0:292:8283:2c03 with SMTP id y21-20020a2e7d15000000b0029282832c03mr1495107ljc.51.1676549682193; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 04:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k11-20020a2e92cb000000b002945bbb83b9sm174480ljh.89.2023.02.16.04.14.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Feb 2023 04:14:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:14:40 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.1 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 15/02/2023 05:53, Gregor Zattler wrote: > * Tim Cross [2023-02-04; 07:01 +11]: >> >> I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian >> does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard >> Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple >> versions of Emacs installed at the same time. > > that would be /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup.el This file should be ignored when Emacs is started with --quick (-Q) option, see https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=59882#86 I have not checked patches that may be applied to Emacs core files. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 21 00:22:14 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2023 05:22:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUL6U-0002Sl-9p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUL6Q-0002ST-Iq for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pUL6L-0007f1-8p; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=GUA0lb702UOIQO8QjYwTIRDBTo6iKd3dEqNw/qbmWUI=; b=RKtsvBejCn0P MoXDcbmCMEJ1Le5+X+wgMZ6Sq3+RfXZ+9CZWi+bZH+YjIRbOihia7LMxtZ7G8ZjR6EywPlPi3A+wt Hqn8qqb8lyxtgYJWfPoynRw/68b1JOD2CC48vdanAIwdZi1aY9TXR/HsouJz/Q0ZDwW5o7Q49dyOM m8rJUgwy2GzoLRRo2TGabVis+b072s9c8ljKtso2Oo8v4fL0du+E4YWjW6ESHuUBORpO44KTk1z/M vMJWYv8jCFB4urI+nkVL7nMmUngELoBScIHnJVCvn3gMo1jSxFSSZMhWuCHrfBH5cVSJo0NfRuFW0 wTkHaIFkhbtafMKPit4hPw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pUL6K-0006Bt-U3; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:04 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> (message from Max Nikulin on Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:14:40 +0700) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:04 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > >> I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian > >> does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard > >> Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple > >> versions of Emacs installed at the same time. Would we like to add a feature like that to Emacs? I don't know how much work it would be, but I think it would be a desirable change if it is easy. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 21 07:32:42 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2023 12:32:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pURp4-0002BE-E6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:32:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pURp2-0002B1-NZ for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:32:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pURox-00043u-4N; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:32:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MFibGk/1PnVAdr1KYRRyJAjXVhwjlrmxkvfNiAwD9q0=; b=LSonlqUAuRxa P576ubc+NiJALA4GOSYh7qN7L+GD5jcWjh7GnG7zclC/ipTOJ3d33lQCCND90XE4FGne86+J85y1x W7PYjj1Nw1WBLG6KogpooyPrOnTJI9rV1msvLk64byrF9l9M7693p/6O04EuknzAUIR0nYvJVFaJS 3c2J2dhGbdr1PkS/TBD7HNHSKh0IPeT/pgXfNVAkypI3o48AVDOqO2p+D+zn85g+BKqd9Ml/VimzC 4rbuOP866LnWvG9PDATXBTB9BCyWnxR+RFRIcG3di5O5a9SA6OMZ3PRjtoohR3Y+mpQQ2WIltVwnV UsVKuNADeXfr9HspjH85tQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pURoq-0002Sk-O8; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 07:32:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 14:32:39 +0200 Message-Id: <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:04 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem References: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: manikulin@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 00:22:04 -0500 > > > >> I don't run Debian or Ubuntu anymore. However, I do recall that debian > > >> does use a modified Emacs startup which is not part of the standard > > >> Emacs distribution. They do this to enable the ability to have multiple > > >> versions of Emacs installed at the same time. > > Would we like to add a feature like that to Emacs? > I don't know how much work it would be, but I think > it would be a desirable change if it is easy. I'm not sure I understand: feature like what? If you are talking about having several Emacs versions installed on the same system, then I think we already support that: I use that all the time. That's why we install various files in version-specific directories. If you mean something else, please elaborate. (The bug discussion is very long, and the above quote is from a tangent, so I'm not sure it's worth my while reading all the discussion from the beginning trying to understand what is being alluded to here.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 21 12:27:36 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2023 17:27:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57202 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUWQR-0008Vv-LX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 12:27:35 -0500 Received: from mail-yw1-f172.google.com ([209.85.128.172]:38909) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUWQO-0008Vh-DH for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 12:27:33 -0500 Received: by mail-yw1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-536c2a1cc07so59287117b3.5 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 09:27:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=jtYwxjnt578SDO7hNfLhfTdnE+LhMNYAT+Qv9b9odiM=; b=FuTAyxoYvJ1HcyX6iPgNO3me730hGryYdrVKo5KU8+KyqEyz/+pZzKd4dlJ3A+Wz+R Qu5rIOWxcOpThrj+//k3sigj+/kOe4GP2P50Y3qSUmDKOQJTAEtFQwLaZ3vrfYzQEcU1 qGR9MceEESewTRFIWvl2eEZlD0YlAYhUisIt8ddyQguv9ySXAkIzQLjgxaPwddhV8Iwc fvwFIr+ch3396r8eLptGjQnHXLTaDC/hrqUv2DL795IHeBsCoLo0dv2nXwW6xP0CdQwq 48T/gCBBdXRqQqLiSgrpPbfoVGCgfT7YB0+TculqL3v+0DODy/bXs9r8N8YHob1AZvsq hOzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=jtYwxjnt578SDO7hNfLhfTdnE+LhMNYAT+Qv9b9odiM=; b=efxbWrH8N2b3ItwqDaQKy/sCJESm070hQ0bLSHgl17KInHsfsjymLJOiXf7y6qQPkP 6fA6NaEz8VYCfTFdponAbVmdYTH+so5zYwRSt9/GK42pauH9L0mC88CKG3MF4dq1yFyY zwaO/K0j60VGwC8f5OKBIK789EH9SL7sqwq79hiRe6/c7g68fR3Jb02UE74LSt+B1bIc Momt/abBFjrCPpfYKPQucCNU/FYaau0Qc2GOAJvKOOlDPjW5RTlgl1HmY7KlrcTKXmOM AZhHoNqGPZkTYUthZ2OcjMzPzgNEQl0ZSM6U/QsL9sXVPgWwUHEGhYEyWd1WJyh+0NIK nQlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXNEVrs2obebv8RnsKbAq1DXEO1QqoAZN/UdWZh99UR0inLL8lw xYwwRK34zAUxBK13hi0xKdP0lvhb7PiT5LBIuWsIpr9OVwI= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:e3c4:0:b0:52e:f797:17d8 with SMTP id m187-20020a0de3c4000000b0052ef79717d8mt1942157ywe.286.1677000445766; Tue, 21 Feb 2023 09:27:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> From: Bhavin Gandhi Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 22:56:49 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 16:35, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > > Max Nikulin writes: > > > On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > >> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? > >> The main question if [...] Content analysis details: (2.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (bhavin7392[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.2 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.128.172 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (bhavin7392[at]gmail.com) 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.128.172 listed in wl.mailspike.net] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 16:35, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > > Max Nikulin writes: > > > On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > >> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? > >> The main question if [...] Content analysis details: (1.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.128.172 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.128.172 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (bhavin7392[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.2 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (bhavin7392[at]gmail.com) 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 16:35, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > > Max Nikulin writes: > > > On 27/12/2022 16:47, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > >> Can you then try to test using Emacs 28? > >> The main question if whether this has been fixed in newer Emacs releas= es > >> or it is also something to do with OS environment. > > > > I see quite the same issue with Emacs-28.2 in Debian testing. Compile > > buffer displays a bit more warnings and usual `org-assert-version' > > warnings and errors are present as well. It might have another level of > > complexity due to .eln files. I am unsure what happens with calls to > > undefined macros. > > I asked people around to test using Debian, and we do have a > confirmation that Debian + Emacs 27 and Debian + Emacs 28 do trigger the > error. > > I also installed Debian 11.6.0 on virtual machine, and I was also able to > trigger the error, following the provided steps, using the Emacs 27 > installed via apt-get. > > The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of > Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. I'm able to reproduce this on Fedora 37, Emacs 28.2. In Fedora we have: - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.el (has code to load .el and .elc from /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d). - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/default.el (sets smime-CA-directory). There are other patches but most of them are backports and seem to be unrelated to package.el: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/emacs/tree/rawhide Steps using with-emacs.sh (https://github.com/alphapapa/with-emacs.sh): 1. mkdir /tmp/emacs-59882 2. with-emacs.sh -d /tmp/emacs-59882 -- -l org 3. M-x package-list-packages 4. Install Org 9.6.1 from ELPA 5. When the package is compiled you get this error at the end (it is there multiple times) ox.el:82:1: Error: Symbol=E2=80=99s function definition is void: org-ass= ert-version 6. Close Emacs and start it again with with-emacs.sh -d /tmp/emacs-59882 -- -l org 7. I get byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version --=20 Bhavin Gandhi (bhavin192) | https://geeksocket.in From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 22 05:47:59 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2023 10:47:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58107 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUmfH-0001ht-GB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 05:47:59 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:60301) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUmfG-0001h3-ES for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 05:47:59 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EB4F2404B3 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:47:52 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1677062872; bh=z+FXCQqSt7K72FZc9FBW9n/7xW/QT02k1PuxiETTECQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=SC8f66ncvEMUitRql/1+2JmOeqreX6lmVfpZseeZ8XF+M+5wZ867ekzFD+BFj7vG4 RFw0v7pPK4q+N+cjG8hqvyTxyMC4du/YYSynABPCUy/BnmKS6JuhnWMoPB6vPJ3rty YIV2R+uy2/ssD/8ZNCgMe9VImpjmif8cHZnSmeWt9hO1ja6fIqtQCQRhL9eYLtdk+9 ID6W+GPYfxCVEajPXaDMt3o6evosUm3dvu96FhHnKXOVfdPiimVaBQZw4v+pm6NG9O qkv1gfVv/cPujO/v9/BaK653CTwDD/RY3lTQ0e1COyFKSdT6rkS5CVrw1PRJyrY84Z 4uggZhf8fmbtA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PMCY32lsXz9rxL; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:47:51 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Bhavin Gandhi Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: References: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 10:48:33 +0000 Message-ID: <87mt56c6wu.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bhavin Gandhi writes: > I'm able to reproduce this on Fedora 37, Emacs 28.2. > > In Fedora we have: > - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.el (has code to load .el and .elc > from /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d). > - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/default.el (sets smime-CA-directory). May I know what is the contents of /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d ? -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 22 11:59:30 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2023 16:59:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUsSn-00008d-RW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:59:30 -0500 Received: from mail-yw1-f172.google.com ([209.85.128.172]:39750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pUsSl-00008P-72 for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:59:28 -0500 Received: by mail-yw1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-536b7ffdd34so124472307b3.6 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 08:59:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=L0rual5FQnOH4zXd3B6aKr1hRAIxHOM1H0TccF8Mfhs=; b=GuLARwWcR8B7LmGnbYNw42sru6sGKHHTLEA3Rcvpv+FKiD5gvM2r58EdKdZvvR5tv4 6EyzADrQkzeBsRtBxHij/+FWXkeWPPvzwQKVS1ClLj9Zr5jcpPHYksTlMTaP94U6o/pM Ek0Nu6qyh96qcx8J773b5r/9t4kx1c8wpnCkq1N9G2Alt4o37yi80c1Q9TVtn2lQtdwI tKnh/030oUYHwHXRz6gCMT7EKIs3YvJnL8yV29p4LepXzr33Iy3EoVvmPL2KKOLK0I+y FKq+Wd8Cbd0fFvELShTWixaRXg184Co7QCjAePUuKEZw9smR/MB2CiiHk37IfNovi5zq 6Vag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=L0rual5FQnOH4zXd3B6aKr1hRAIxHOM1H0TccF8Mfhs=; b=FCqZ7TqsN7+2yL3ne0s9xkKGO2qfG/GijwW1P0QVkInpMNvd2zPEuOmQkN1BUEPIDj Y9cQc16hu9sd+LKcTgbPX2+6Dihu59lOYGbrsKoB0OrOWlfmjAnahHnkFkyh7eXj0QSr QUArHEiIQ76MdcAu/WqN/ZMgu9lqwfHYM0V51AMeiMnvCff+K+lyu8xqSdqPbNT5t61O m2BY7eCihRvLpWFzLDeLXtUq3xVOZ8UOzh/s8SzR+vp21WV7fZe3Ykn3fTcYCYQ6UABy 2Iy+0gVWMVVyMq2jGM1UTAqpgLNzsGByh8kGsOcakt1jakPeGwONGO7nS0klFjmkeGp1 taig== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWNoPXlcVqaedF03vM238+e7gEk7w7Q9dF4gOI+guUSPuxg7sdQ /AVXk4DPxRM4KiQ6Pg+ecWhfSA3kdpYe7WTAIfU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/k+qxmFmEKJpbEW5XNPhyRov4fEX2z8BlRk70IMtSPupbLOs6YHB+jbaHJKlpYGh4aIKd0bG4i49Wf2ZIUs38= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:a90:b0:533:9d13:a067 with SMTP id ci16-20020a05690c0a9000b005339d13a067mr1202025ywb.3.1677085161616; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 08:59:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt56c6wu.fsf@localhost> In-Reply-To: <87mt56c6wu.fsf@localhost> From: Bhavin Gandhi Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 22:28:45 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem To: Ihor Radchenko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 at 16:17, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > > Bhavin Gandhi writes: > > > I'm able to reproduce this on Fedora 37, Emacs 28.2. > > > > In Fedora we have: > > - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.el (has code to load .el and .elc > > from /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d). > > - /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/default.el (sets smime-CA-directory). > > May I know what is the contents of > /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d ? These are init files specific to other packages installed via OS package manager. But those are not loaded, it seems in the above steps. I tried to run (featurep 'clang-format) and it returned nil, while this returns t in my normal Emacs instance. $ ls -1 /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d/ autoconf-init.el https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/autoconf/blob/rawhide/f/autoconf-init.el clang-format.el clang-include-fixer.el clang-rename.el cmake-init.el https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/cmake/blob/rawhide/f/cmake-init.el desktop-entry-mode-init.el https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/desktop-file-utils/blob/rawhide/f/desktop-entry-mode-init.el gtypist-init.el https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/gtypist/blob/rawhide/f/gtypist.spec#_43-46 mercurial-site-start.el https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/mercurial/blob/rawhide/f/mercurial-site-start.el None of these load org-mode. -- Bhavin Gandhi (bhavin192) | https://geeksocket.in From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 23 04:35:18 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2023 09:35:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pV80U-00026A-Je for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 04:35:18 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:43389) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pV80S-00025x-Ts for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 04:35:17 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C22B240706 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:35:10 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1677144911; bh=SnxWN1clz+tmi0JnPA0KdZP+hIH7FnN2x6FKWoQgTSs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=P7d9a7r44jLl6cnelM5CtH3DL84SQbDzoH2st7iykH0Ta0pVXWMUwvkqhEqPz6acF TIJZfOUgj/mAQlbY2YBv62NJzCbv/XgFhkCf1WojvCi1zvJyRzpiESPJ43032ERw4b DbTdRs1PtMwnwMo69kEjfkTpnuxY+8GWL/OxnbnIowxrBbyblLoyBemcO/2uGpx2g9 xuftLcr+zVevzoydjaDuCAyEKuE/GIXvLTn86abktqqiBuGeb/BiD1f+AhSJNgKrPU NDnAJCXfPjFUqIbjs5V1lXg/cyDGjxFvVI/VAB0/khTmLm6ECGcIdR7Wu2s4z+BRvz yqPo9PkfR5BRw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PMntj2V8vz9rxM; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:35:09 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Bhavin Gandhi Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: References: <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <86zg9upl8h.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmabyi2r.fsf@no.workgroup> <7d11b200-9ee5-8114-ab22-adce32c68323@gmail.com> <83mt57td08.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt56c6wu.fsf@localhost> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 09:35:52 +0000 Message-ID: <87k0083err.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Bhavin Gandhi writes: > These are init files specific to other packages installed via OS package > manager. But those are not loaded, it seems in the above steps. I tried to > run (featurep 'clang-format) and it returned nil, while this returns t > in my normal Emacs instance. > ... > None of these load org-mode. They just define auto-loading, but I see not how they would affect Org loading. Very confusing... -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 06 11:02:20 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2023 15:02:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54705 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkR80-0004zY-2h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 11:02:20 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f44.google.com ([209.85.167.44]:33683) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkR7v-0004zJ-AQ for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 11:02:18 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f44.google.com with SMTP id k37so51253346lfv.0 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 08:02:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680793329; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mail-followup-to:from :references:cc:to:content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2KxFkX2b2Kl5Ypw5Oy6yKYobRuScHgytt7Z9CusDSak=; b=P52AmnHi2xaoh2MS2ZCJ5T/AdN32Ug5dBMdjDiHIyPmxO1s1TLqb1JpqnGY0g4gWPA CBVdGZftpjexyTHz5/rIhlQ6VZZ0ULcuN1I3fUjy+Gfp8yMr/KFC+3+LiebtrXYAjWWF 8gZ+lhTHwEREz08ABiEFoXxh+tKvT5uU7wAduUrMlVNshUN3dcWshn04z1IV85pXaCOW a9cTUlRZJ1Y+8/aIeAacn3L0fXi6QjmPYY4MpJCuz4t0S28oSaSAQRnHkQU6sBfmeNgO bbCs/agcunRnuEDmURWrmQRtz5bAeqT2ZlUCFQYlHALeBHZIG34/Dc9fQnnULYxgrmAt 1Rqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680793329; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mail-followup-to:from :references:cc:to:content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=2KxFkX2b2Kl5Ypw5Oy6yKYobRuScHgytt7Z9CusDSak=; b=mYhInh9rA9hV0tK9fDDh6JdJ7fJyoRJfUvbgRzEz2ovIqQN4rAns3l7buVOMWzosyz uOVYE7REPbNU0blhNRT/0ZOB4GBmE0TMjTDvANx7XHI8LdTWZ24nbJe1jwgFwfJgx9C/ JsWvBK1hTmTi+J71yasRFo+d0036grBw5GuQPjNhHYxcJyWU0nvtHPJw7U4P+hKcGGNQ lPAvIVQ/iKFfWDkouuSmzAKOeNQcK0iA30WS2Yi87YcGU0C1T6gNnnTbAdEUJ7H7x46g Nv4Nhj5OUVshZUc7IjylB/wg7EwPKNbLOO02iH/6C4DRRL6BuT5Vpp585RX+lMDJ00iR nJdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fjCMsAkhOyflqKsav8/ERpkuYvBpA7jp5nyBBBn72WZih30ux5 XEHVSKm1pVebGH/jvJ1NA2s6vi4KRuc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350b4/59IzrDF4PtB0bZCsHOjJ1wv4JHCgLHz2FmJwZNKQRp8+ZIIvv6XqPUKprxrumpqAJUlZg== X-Received: by 2002:a19:f508:0:b0:4dd:a445:e69d with SMTP id j8-20020a19f508000000b004dda445e69dmr2538663lfb.26.1680793328361; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id p12-20020a05651238cc00b004ec4f3810ddsm280367lft.219.2023.04.06.08.02.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Apr 2023 08:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5c84a074-4bfd-06e4-b07b-9f53d12ddd7f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2023 22:02:06 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org References: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> From: Max Nikulin Mail-Followup-To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 03/02/2023 18:02, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > > The problem seems to be real and appears to be some combination of > Debian/Ubuntu + Emacs. It is not a Debian packaging issue. I have reproduced the "invalid function `org-assert-version'" bug using emacs built from emacs-28.2 git tag. It is important to execute "make install" and to launch emacs from from that directory. I have no idea why behavior is different when emacs is launched from the build tree. Environment: Debian-12 bookworm (frozen testing). There is no problem when emacs is built by just "make" from debian sources with all patches applied. I admit that this experiment was not really pure since I did not use configure options from the debian/control file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 06 12:09:26 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2023 16:09:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54788 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkSAw-00014w-1i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 12:09:26 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-f172.google.com ([209.85.208.172]:44936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkSAr-00014Z-Rq for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 12:09:25 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-f172.google.com with SMTP id q14so41157206ljm.11 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 09:09:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680797355; x=1683389355; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mail-followup-to:from :references:cc:to:content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sqq9UBmGaB3zlV031L3TvGXqD7UsGapUf4YlERgSs9U=; b=QgLq4f/y5k/Z53hW29sYZmN7H5YYtyqiBWLJX5lLhrrzsXgGqeXFL+KQEn5zWFmmSn y8tkA40aIj9/67Z8WuJFnHEhFfkfL4CGs/LzEioAmYu8xRs/A6MB/gQ8q0m7+RQHjFU9 Onbth9QICg6TJevUhNWPSGbYayte/gt98AlAFo9jFkybSrseTLgymjkD7yNcS0hskbE4 15rIzjWIARPjZsQFX+mhXz6AKHoAUeuDi+uy2jcXee1qySaAvCshjpQnScuhO4TElXMe oUvzUe1S+WmmCkzmMYjxNwkikigKj7/ltL3oi+QWV0uee582TN3hJ+4/ghJvbUr3Ku6B 5t/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680797355; x=1683389355; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mail-followup-to:from :references:cc:to:content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=sqq9UBmGaB3zlV031L3TvGXqD7UsGapUf4YlERgSs9U=; b=tsakefzohbBCoseanpRVjJnYWHfW/UelWagsyz2WpebZmtVKcS2M1c3RTCIpyFbvsy PzkvgdjHzZn6Ki1Z1krrXCbmfoXjKUZ4xhBZsQ2Lmndd+y7ELbjFn4LWNUgQoD6T4Opy /Fv0HzOYwenQ8LbqKeoEmCLlJVdJf0viqLqyJ6/zU59vAIijEQw55wCsfvwbQF24I3Fh LZY/rEi+5hN1sKr51w0lujPI6ng3WSe/HvfEV8nbbZGghpafb76B2XsfiHbjaW6mwDyo sn+T4Pa8NdN9qlFlBnIVni3j7jEAzlAZRU32TV4nR7ejEAW+DDOzEdhXmYni0Wp+ELbT WWmw== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cUKVDdE2+KM+pzIdXQv60+yoBEy8WHh2yMnw6e7XdGWQ5lIRIA SJ4QqYzdQH610nAnqbZO3+ihgetop468EA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YZIKoneWNe88kLaNsQl6PV0qpBt/z1dqlU6xKgv//dCTCW2UYnrSWnoVL4BPwhnGTq2pCLxg== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8753:0:b0:2a2:54e8:1037 with SMTP id q19-20020a2e8753000000b002a254e81037mr2939263ljj.38.1680797355202; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 09:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k18-20020a2e8892000000b002958a51df76sm336254lji.92.2023.04.06.09.09.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Apr 2023 09:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7e64ae5e-6fd7-ea41-dae5-c8abd9a3fefa@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:09:13 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> From: Max Nikulin Mail-Followup-To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 18/12/2022 22:40, Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: >> - "emacs -l org" to simulate a regular user session with some opened files. >> - Update to Org-9.6 from ELPA. >> - Close emacs and start it again "emacs -l org" >> >> Result: >> byte-code: Invalid function: org-assert-version > > Hmm... there's code in `package.el` intended to avoid that problem, but > clearly it's failing here. Could Someone™ investigate why that code > doesn't do its job. > > The code in question is in `package--reload-previously-loaded` Since I managed to reproduce the issue with emacs-28.2 built from source tree, I tried current master (30.0.50) as well. I used the following trick to shadow org-assert-version: sed -i -e 's/org-assert-version/org-assert-version-old/g' lisp/org/*.el I am unable to reproduce the "Invalid function: org-assert-version" issue. Org compilation finishes without warnings. I have noticed that neither `package--reload-previously-loaded` nor code loading already compiled package unload the loaddefs file. E.g. I added org-stale-function marked as autoload. It is possible to get help for this function, but attempts to call this function causes "Autoloading file" error. Ideally emacs should completely forget about such functions when newer elpa package is installed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 06 17:25:27 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2023 21:25:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55320 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkX6k-0007tb-Pb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 17:25:27 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:49036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pkX6i-0007tI-JU for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 17:25:25 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1DE2F442DFB; Thu, 6 Apr 2023 17:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D075B442DF9; Thu, 6 Apr 2023 17:25:09 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1680816309; bh=Tvs9+JBzarvgxGRTeBn3r+PcYftARGNz/qjM8iuDSS0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=PSumX3YONyzQCFm8dAyWODsoKhElzTxHZwEg+xFZ/LEk0yvOX3B0gRcWdyf0DBbeK OAt/0OgRICEJ+4qVqK5+n/GaTqsxYCQI/KKmMoJz1mu1oZbCzzOso6N+Afa5azGxup Z3sR1LwyABGU1kp3FWJZ3rzSFplPO7kyyMg67AqsRLMfSg5L5k7Y9rIBYWh/d6O7dn s9MYtJI/Bs3KsS+k/2b//l5Q6/0avGoBlMq4h3d/Z58057Z8tXOs4lTiZiAnVVADPk UVvGGh64gpl351LY3qhOlVJSzrxlV454iM2v+YqhrEB7e45TGbH/gaQDol5Hf4RL80 8+Ry2+kAPqvMQ== Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.44.229.252]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3B001233C3; Thu, 6 Apr 2023 17:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <7e64ae5e-6fd7-ea41-dae5-c8abd9a3fefa@gmail.com> (Max Nikulin's message of "Thu, 6 Apr 2023 23:09:13 +0700") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <7e64ae5e-6fd7-ea41-dae5-c8abd9a3fefa@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2023 17:25:08 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.155 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I have noticed that neither `package--reload-previously-loaded` nor code > loading already compiled package unload the loaddefs file. E.g. I added The state of our unloading support is not good enough to use it blindly, indeed: it's too easy/common to have packages where `unload` leaves you with an Emacs that has serious problems (including being unusable). So, instead we limit ourselves to force-reloading files which tends to be much more harmless (tho in theory of course it's just as bad). It also tends to be sufficient. 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[5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a21-20020ac25215000000b004ec55a15b39sm494118lfl.110.2023.04.07.04.39.02 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Apr 2023 04:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34c60ea9-6472-489e-91c5-8ff7831397c2@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 18:39:01 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Content-Language: en-US From: Max Nikulin To: 59882@debbugs.gnu.org References: <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <87pmc7stiw.fsf@localhost> <96ecff22-8604-3794-671f-75184dcb7d31@gmail.com> <87r0wmr1tk.fsf@localhost> <877cyeqvh4.fsf@localhost> <3f0ead96-4424-18a9-394f-680fc135d39c@gmail.com> <87sfh12n6i.fsf@localhost> <11e5c88d-09d1-75a5-5c7c-f8ace552c2d3@gmail.com> <87lelfnhaa.fsf@localhost> <5c84a074-4bfd-06e4-b07b-9f53d12ddd7f@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5c84a074-4bfd-06e4-b07b-9f53d12ddd7f@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 06/04/2023 22:02, Max Nikulin wrote: > It is not a Debian packaging issue. I have reproduced the "invalid > function `org-assert-version'" bug using emacs built from emacs-28.2 git > tag. It is important to execute "make install" and to launch emacs from > from that directory. > > I have no idea why behavior is different when emacs is launched from the > build tree. When installed, built-in Org contains .elc and .el.gz files, but not .el ones. When uncompressed source .el files are present in $prefix/share/emacs-28.2/lisp/org (gunzip --keep *.el.gz) then the Org ELPA package compiles without warnings and errors related to `org-assert-version' (There is still a single warning though that does not lead to later failure during loading). It seems new .el files are ignored when built-in directory contains no .el files. Definitions from the built-in .elc files are used during compilation in such case. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Apr 19 00:21:16 2023 Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Apr 2023 04:21:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60847 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pozJk-0003T1-2i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 00:21:16 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f182.google.com ([209.85.128.182]:46801) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pozJf-0003Sl-NC for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 00:21:14 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f182.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-552ae3e2cbeso113163307b3.13 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:21:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681878066; x=1684470066; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cqjqHVNeszSOW8iuX/1aFsfhz9tYVjR4JCHNRDQyZ9A=; b=jtsFs5TNDKG/EWEmuMlubIegDOmvhLK+G770q6yb6Z5d//3yOBqykQCErWVmb6OGiH gHtvEYFGOpFjc9HjQEq4FRlwrgcxlmP39N3lZf00l7q/FwZf+9WBrn3xqMQQ32uS3T+g 5XVawUpelnIrRQAqfepkUfAsxTWAXDtGH0LUUrqd3I7Fw3TByx2fdNC2U2scdi5hBitc fb+74bGaDoB/vKgPp2DWPLo+6XuPG/eCV81rpJaVcmMEqAjwEuO9wCTAkZ2dZKDMAM5m M3QEqEBeMx7YdX7MDuOzZIMxdkpO40l4F7vny4t13mVvzKGGpDbriDA4QG+S1hQBwaR2 iVJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681878066; x=1684470066; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=cqjqHVNeszSOW8iuX/1aFsfhz9tYVjR4JCHNRDQyZ9A=; b=XzkkSY9n4lV6cqnX0fPn13hMKha9Rtrrelj7ltLHTUwxh5pKzHn2uUJnihGcJ/PCaU Gv4bqKmXdlMM0UFNx2D1+YBSLWAWtSLxtluW+/eKN6z4MrWgDqZhTtohbuEm5ugo+pqj zYnRW1U+SPcNNILa/s9KZxteqIJTK+G8De2xRT7vl799Iq3T/J4tG+ZULsbUAnKw6erT w1kTu1a34KhXMv8e30O3WbbQ6IO9w6ygjKf4A0R7kBFycb23PzgN+pY4grBBVJ7m+LXA DAWMrjzOooQ1xqwraMzBXImK3ySB4/TrnKAUfsr8UGar42GjruIRfU+xheN8FyYlqHd/ 78Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fsEZ1vRUlzj4GNeJQdjVL9pJPSQGCeHSunbop1XnqyFz3tmdk1 NF9GAZN2GShZ+wOTD0/zsvLAcKehGQlEeogqJ+8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YBGEWcI3npDtjh54wbI49OOk2WwPvyJXXu//QcjQdQONUXPt8dSGEKg//ijezSNsvzghU7LDFWbA1qM1FcWe0= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:db0e:0:b0:54f:a209:1a2a with SMTP id d14-20020a0ddb0e000000b0054fa2091a2amr2264794ywe.4.1681878065916; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:21:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> <3bf2e057-4204-cdc8-0847-39a723db4fc8@gmail.com> <809ae318-fe95-1023-6bca-ba827fd01a29@gmail.com> <87fsdfs8vl.fsf@localhost> <4b053e69-87d3-8323-8949-0546b4bb6c1a@gmail.com> <7e64ae5e-6fd7-ea41-dae5-c8abd9a3fefa@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Gillespie Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:20:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem To: Stefan Monnier Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59882 Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > The state of our unloading support is not good enough to use it blindly I have managed to use unload-feature to reload a new version of org after the builtin version has been previously loaded, but the dance you have to do to avoid nasty errors (and segfaults if using native comp!) is about 100 lines of arcane footwork, and if any one step is off you will encounter one of the many hidden landmines. unload-feature cannot be used blindly, and there are a very large number of side effects along the path that are not controlled which makes any process that tries to use unload-feature brittle and hard to debug. https://github.com/tgbugs/orgstrap/blob/f35bccde556b0f82515e79ee69f4379469276356/ow.el#L1010-L1064 https://github.com/tgbugs/orgstrap/blob/f35bccde556b0f82515e79ee69f4379469276356/ow.el#L1073-L1177