From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 13:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Stefan Monnier X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Xcc: Stefan Monnier Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.166947026415720 (code B ref -1); Sat, 26 Nov 2022 13:45:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2022 13:44:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38217 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTk-00045T-CB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:24 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:44612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTh-00045J-L8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTh-0007K4-G4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:21 -0500 Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTf-0000LV-NI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:21 -0500 Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id t62so7075781oib.12 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h9B9BLt9NqBEKxsuAiRvA7YzkwaOTv+is9Bc67t+1lE=; b=GNizirdeFv8gokL0Kt9qgzqwOk05bTcpXj6PF9IpBpba4U6LR8pQTipSEJDfVY2Y4/ Ks3Mzn/xMYrjZHw01Bo4P4DFT8BvrUSvCo7iKBeMjVwLdZAan3pU5ox4Hvqw0M0r34rd FMgGgSmeIeLmLd2x6RzMcJr41vZe1Cgn3Uoy3o/a8t73k2JS7cLf++1ie749Y1N53tkD YZg/yz3Brk83icvR8Ng9cC+wh14Tcdwf8tH3SOnZ8QsZoT151vrvmxnsNK8yLyhwSsuf FV7U24CfEIxvwIV3OE9BWgsXrU8Xo6cHy4zT73dRBXOvntRwEsdKbzPtDqIV+wqueb+F F0Lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h9B9BLt9NqBEKxsuAiRvA7YzkwaOTv+is9Bc67t+1lE=; b=IZFWsHVWghws2L2chrtoodWBsoWyGIAIANjOqxNqNfSU0BdJHqUGKvmjJB5jiQYFom NnnB1/tduwK9TQky2iO5bfQpaDFviplTlmQMFS9GjC8pVvRhxCaIxQo9Em4f779kDYZy /8BHvF+lc+BCFXqrsSxMpxfZxloHE6CLecnx0FjVfNJjArqp6qGD5oNlqDOiReJE49F9 +JELUBxOAMaJakp5WuO+rd6za1HAA/4frEBKYDzVVtoDXGzfu91R50aN17lltS5/u1Pk 6K1X0KGDBMOXalTMJTVygKiFlVre5l35mVH3NpD8rHt/FvI+TLfIymH2Fknx5v+OdfSB rrpg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plLMnkKskl2ZQ7I9tO2uDAXteq+KcmrM82g4362OcxJUrKLl5mi aqx0ns3NtgL4btGG+eeJHAks++rOvWoswjLOdlMzfzwzopM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5uuuigLMYtikiCClGQB2Ok7211q9y/SKvTEl/2Eo1PdjUfNO3K7vtjf1I5tpfcWjWJlbWKj+StwlbsMUTd/Lk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1287:b0:359:dc32:4f9e with SMTP id a7-20020a056808128700b00359dc324f9emr12309085oiw.92.1669470258481; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas X-Hashcash: 1:20:221126:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org::WyfQvkZ9BiAfCb/F:soX MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::235; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x235.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Severity: wishlist See the attached patch, which advertises (Non-)GNU ELPA a bit more in the manual. This would help make those archives more well-known and attractive to users and package developers. Thoughts? --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Advertise-Non-GNU-ELPA-more.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Advertise-Non-GNU-ELPA-more.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f24a5bda3fc0cd1b_0.1 RnJvbSBhOTBiOGU1MTc0YjZiZGE1NDhjMDhkMWNlMWYxMWI2NWZjNTY0ZTYwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDI2IE5vdiAyMDIyIDE0OjM5OjAzICswMTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g QWR2ZXJ0aXNlIChOb24tKUdOVSBFTFBBIG1vcmUKCiogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aSAo UGFja2FnZXMpOiBBZHZlcnRpc2UgKE5vbi0pR05VIEVMUEEKbW9yZS4KLS0tCiBkb2MvZW1hY3Mv cGFja2FnZS50ZXhpIHwgNiArKysrLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA0IGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyks IDIgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aSBiL2Rv Yy9lbWFjcy9wYWNrYWdlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggY2Q0YzExM2FlNS4uY2RjNWIzZGJjOCAxMDA2NDQK LS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aQorKysgYi9kb2MvZW1hY3MvcGFja2FnZS50ZXhp CkBAIC0zNSw4ICszNSwxMCBAQCBQYWNrYWdlcwogbmFtZSBvZiBhIHBhY2thZ2UsIGFuZCBkaXNw bGF5cyBhIGhlbHAgYnVmZmVyIGRlc2NyaWJpbmcgdGhlCiBhdHRyaWJ1dGVzIG9mIHRoZSBwYWNr YWdlIGFuZCB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZXMgdGhhdCBpdCBpbXBsZW1lbnRzLgogCi0gIEJ5IGRlZmF1bHQs IEVtYWNzIGRvd25sb2FkcyBwYWNrYWdlcyBmcm9tIGEgcGFja2FnZSBhcmNoaXZlCi1tYWludGFp bmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBFbWFjcyBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIEdOVSBwcm9qZWN0 LgorICBCeSBkZWZhdWx0LCBFbWFjcyBkb3dubG9hZHMgcGFja2FnZXMgZnJvbSBHTlUgRUxQQQor KEB1cmx7aHR0cHM6Ly9lbHBhLmdudS5vcmcvfSksIGEgcGFja2FnZSBhcmNoaXZlIG1haW50YWlu ZWQgYnkgdGhlCitFbWFjcyBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIEdOVSBwcm9qZWN0 LiAgSXQgYWxzbyBkb3dubG9hZHMKK3BhY2thZ2VzIGZyb20gTm9uR05VIEVMUEEgKEB1cmx7aHR0 cHM6Ly9lbHBhLm5vbmdudS5vcmcvfSkuCiBPcHRpb25hbGx5LCB5b3UgY2FuIGFsc28gZG93bmxv YWQgcGFja2FnZXMgZnJvbSBhcmNoaXZlcyBtYWludGFpbmVkIGJ5CiB0aGlyZCBwYXJ0aWVzLiAg QHhyZWZ7UGFja2FnZSBJbnN0YWxsYXRpb259LgogCi0tIAoyLjM1LjEKCg== --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a-- From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 14:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.166947242419352 (code B ref 59609); Sat, 26 Nov 2022 14:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2022 14:20:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38299 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyw2a-000523-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:20:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyw2Y-00051q-0E for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:20:22 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyw2R-0001Aa-JJ; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:20:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FvUOShY4YpBzWU3fEBlByrPr64hVEZBxO0cj3FSR9Ts=; b=AFArKBuAFunm qB4bgn1XjTnj9/Ak0ZNGEeVj4b8EOz9stW0zaSjTA+IEYyyTmZZxn8zMCT8ZPMejY/N0JdX+AhW26 Pafx0JiTC/Ly7O783eDxY6mfOdw9DUYXpg0yLhtwePvYBtfdFNhbGxHlwVqzp6bFbAvGfMvAmUw2B /mHa73/xt+lqTbBi2ozTpsMdHqJw3EBb5i3VFymdPW7H9BGO8207JRwP93eZDKjMG7tt9lAAm4FGn +Ej3J9iF3lU30YTkA7viBouJR9g2FCrRsFj83yDohyoForZry6rblqRmAkO/2jbUvLvgEL/bMTFin 4zSKvIa9Xy/LlfWxVFlQ6w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyw2Q-0000d2-W3; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:20:15 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:20:36 +0200 Message-Id: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: Stefan Monnier > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800 > > --- a/doc/emacs/package.texi > +++ b/doc/emacs/package.texi > @@ -35,8 +35,10 @@ Packages > name of a package, and displays a help buffer describing the > attributes of the package and the features that it implements. > > - By default, Emacs downloads packages from a package archive > -maintained by the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. > + By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA > +(@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}), a package archive maintained by the > +Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. It also downloads > +packages from NonGNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}). This sounds OK, but begs the question: what's short description of NonGNU ELPA? Since we describe GNU ELPA, let's also describe the other one. The purpose should IMO be to explain to the reader, or at least hint why we maintain two separate archives. Thanks. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 22:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16695896666867 (code B ref 59609); Sun, 27 Nov 2022 22:55:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Nov 2022 22:54:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44666 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ozQXZ-0001mh-PG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 17:54:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44818) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ozQXY-0001mb-2i for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 17:54:24 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ozQXS-0006GY-4b; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 17:54:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=pDIryBCunLAZZO/2FQe8yEeKT+PDlI6f/73DaIj48aQ=; b=k152Zwfd3dFd 6BvDYvCWHEeRSeZWWtrlMzQqwa56rQb38VaKZa9zPf/WQraHxnBDjFft9G9zz8m23NcGFn4m7Iily oOpTRy5zErDYR2PRk2XDDZuaLUUbr6GQX66cOa8rQqgNfpZEAzoKtDElBS8NxpqvJsEbMJ0j8x2u4 rDJzvEaAVihcyfTwcUtwaZC76xcYes7XMLwtt/9mD+lhjoK4hhFAisFFl+XvXjSjCflpRsU/dBPq3 ynxIxhts3jk984ABJlfZB2IZRysgl+5r8NSkWwvZDB14WrSiVV3CGrGgxUbYKEsevI1X2ar9FknEl bz4a+ouFUEf6GhJdI66OsQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ozQXI-0005c0-Vp; Sun, 27 Nov 2022 17:54:09 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800) References: Message-Id: Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 17:54:08 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > + By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA > +(@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}), a package archive maintained by the > +Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. It also downloads > +packages from NonGNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}). I think it is ok to say this provided that these are packages we can't or should not include in Emacs, so people can't depend on them to continue to be present. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 23:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.166985246821377 (code B ref 59609); Wed, 30 Nov 2022 23:55:01 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Nov 2022 23:54:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0WuJ-0005Yj-Lq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:54:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33224) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0WuE-0005Yd-Js for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:54:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Wu8-0007Io-85; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:54:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=5trDUI6VvfAZDwh2zIOXRF7pCU5MmwctU6krbQj3Hxo=; b=KEU6AXyNfNp2 w0gOZw0mYpWCFa/WbtzUHwc/M3bFR1LiUPG3Yzw7mbUEOgpbaxZljbLKHtCv1Tih4oqq4aIQsWO/v VeuyI9sqYPUT3XxKT2IMovdkUunmXEerrD06cD44Vs/bW9lPgT3JMHPCJZTwJhxLqOwXMo64KNddk LTVsZeRNX6la2FITeBFjPp7CiAZVoRWFyAh+TKDxjOG8/kKj0TykbhFbpTKhSu1cRJus6V3xDtE6A bVD2Oj64Bqfy+C2i/WEP769Wc6gq8U3lG1iO1L+dF/WrN6Cn2Ok2W6dzu9qnvLv5q1Ovw6N9hMQVg mbhEf8b4dBkTwVZDxOo92Q==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Wu6-0000em-KG; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:54:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800) References: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:54:14 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I'm correcting a message I didn't write clearly. > + By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA > +(@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}), a package archive maintained by the > +Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. It also downloads > +packages from NonGNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}). I said: I think it is ok to say this provided that these are packages we can't or should not include in Emacs, so people can't depend on them to continue to be present. I should have said: I think it is ok to say this about NonGNU ELPA provided we say clearly that these are packages we can't or should not include in Emacs, so people should not depend on them to continue to be present. Sorry. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2022 03:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16698665975307 (code B ref 59609); Thu, 01 Dec 2022 03:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Dec 2022 03:49:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0aaC-0001NX-Pf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:49:57 -0500 Received: from mail-oa1-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]:42828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0aaA-0001NQ-4Y for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:49:55 -0500 Received: by mail-oa1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-142b72a728fso801669fac.9 for <59609@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:49:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=34hVegcaowJT1KTGaX/Z+uN2Iu2IF+NAxwnYwEdfoNw=; b=AR+q6VlIXiN9Ba18hNSF0oRyH2Axq3Q/knH3j9Bcn1K+F5NOVn2DuYuqX94Iqlw53U uiiwGbe0zphJ1m0jI6PtjbagJJHqMXlS9/WvgA7PIVMB0S5L6j+d/RFRwcx6LyShqDIF 29YZ6ChabGFQIVF5mCzBTg+zLq/iKBIfDybDmzxMAKecU2SHxHLfh269y8VSXposBgoK 9ugKVdr0nWg5lih3BdJbK2ZEhrl9P6F3CxqvPvQbRu68dYsZDNi6am0GqWIdihwo0poA CnuUCF509cKZSMmMGrrnLylu4iV+fJPMI4SvtuqBhdZcggN0nw6SSt42aN3cawS0kFcs eDeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=34hVegcaowJT1KTGaX/Z+uN2Iu2IF+NAxwnYwEdfoNw=; b=minNX+OyfEO5Sn6WBmMHqQx15/i1RXQtfzLFTNrTTMeSlb+V/BwNQGYb3Pea7vHo9t 0XDyvf0GwpaY/tEpvNz+KNgHWGj4c2Qw9seMDpugzyyCkafEvErCbSRTcIK9Hx11TLpL sMiEVkQ+ejNX0L847rNHI4arnm7xGLnl4RHJxODjdeqcrQWOi34r6yRzI9PQ6QGcI5Zr aKUL2ha4KGFzOtZHw8TJvuKFKvKLEd0pMetrJQceWBkZ2vFzvnOKJK96u+FLkTMrCXKg R5JuYi0b/r0Op8uHgXo4YpmyLF1ZiR2MhFgpzxMAyMaNyPh396Em2bcdE+KBvgVWIWdP ZChA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pkRSXYhLXV8iwTWNyYvDD83frGWA3weHlrsrkk++o222jZK7gyM RLQjwMU8DSVq+UdPra5nbIR8M++e1yxUMG+0xV4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf7GF4LNnCOH1xZckzStxjZrBCZjrFsfhY4hqWac/fx/jZFxEcjB7m9itxj/nlqnnoeoJHX1IIUTzHvMESpcvzI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4995:b0:143:522a:ebcc with SMTP id ho21-20020a056870499500b00143522aebccmr19325004oab.199.1669866588221; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:49:47 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: X-Hashcash: 1:20:221201:59609@debbugs.gnu.org::fTbRiEP9+lmJ+WSy:Arvw MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:49:47 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > > + By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA > > +(@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}), a package archive maintained by the > > +Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. It also downloads > > +packages from NonGNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}). > > I think it is ok to say this about NonGNU ELPA provided we say > clearly that these are packages we can't or should not include in > Emacs, so people should not depend on them to continue to be > present. I see no risk that the packages will suddenly go away. Under what circumstances would that happen? In some cases, we will delete packages from NonGNU ELPA, of course. This is true for GNU ELPA also, and for Emacs itself. But I don't see why we need to get into all that in this section, where we are just letting people know that GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA exist. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2022 23:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.167011084713267 (code B ref 59609); Sat, 03 Dec 2022 23:41:01 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2022 23:40:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p1c7g-0003Rv-L6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 18:40:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42058) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p1c7Q-0003Rp-HR for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 18:40:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p1c7L-0001j7-7c; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 18:40:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=pqKVOQBMhirW6iZpnRun6S2700zVxLmWxRp1zpp5X5c=; b=ULYBrn2iP7hg qYSBw6UqEu3HHSk26Z4st1VP4SLQaMFZVjdCiSpf+o82XTHT9aOYCNH84mHowZLzr0hYVB8bn7t3u bOsIlKp1iFGgmfKh0zODHELVCIOjl1Le/eGyOT1HNStjaNHLY/9LugqzBuOnGv3Z01d233UuZIWKw xNHALPpw6DmTOlNNd3Wn1R2ckXSyLPdoKvC044m7shlymJog7S5M6+gaX9X57eBmriH12hH3d/0YU Z3PQos9hLGYqnsaCbg2pPAO+jon1AyxGOylwx11iG8nYsg5JOD+3kVDX4lpvdjnIUBDkfQp1xSIoV gQARdFVRJznC1P0HPy1pYg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p1c7K-00051h-Rk; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 18:40:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 30 Nov 2022 19:49:47 -0800) References: Message-Id: Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2022 18:40:22 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I see no risk that the packages will suddenly go away. Under what > circumstances would that happen? Here are two ways I can envision. If somehow the developers are no longer working on it in a way we can use. If it rots and needs substantial change and the developers are not interested in doing that. > But I don't see > why we need to get into all that in this section, where we are just > letting people know that GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA exist. It's about two lines -- not enough to qualify as "all that". -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2022 00:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: rms@gnu.org Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.167011205014053 (code B ref 59609); Sun, 04 Dec 2022 00:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2022 00:00:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p1cR8-0003eb-9z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 19:00:50 -0500 Received: from mail-oa1-f48.google.com ([209.85.160.48]:42846) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p1cR6-0003eV-7P for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 19:00:48 -0500 Received: by mail-oa1-f48.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-142b72a728fso9494585fac.9 for <59609@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 16:00:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EFJIXULXCEHHfYK8VDnM+/rsfgMTjpGHeY21izGVmSY=; b=dgteTZx0SNCU4VM1LjpFjAwKLj0o5Vlf8/Kr+A64IOGMC5g5j0s37FsxCBik5KZuTP bPS+cZePOLKLY2Qi4GgyfEpK/bkp/Ec4uuaI/wF+SuOdzyxiqyIFs7zldlbf7vHKKKfr pf/7iPB1X/meijHCl18mUKll7WnAnCOLIrGcRuNj6v908C8vldiiRB2Gd3vk8CdsABwh 2dtd8D9McOvgFocW+qKfsQzsCNKaUdjV4g2ZRJuT4HQwEbVaZF4q+myNVNssTaYRPrke lMTNdQIaUBaIPjWmudkgxjXsla3yYWMgHjXPVBUWLI0GPnhntmUEN+Cqrci1gaQW6qJZ QtHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EFJIXULXCEHHfYK8VDnM+/rsfgMTjpGHeY21izGVmSY=; b=xZpjoINwfOaEAvUkO53qm4u+b5hejnWYp8h1GdlJxtc7isRGMzPiwKZ7+uFF4pELQ1 bNvUeCWnBMKrhyCjssUdFD3VaO7bNeFeDk9S3zaU9o6J81FwRVjBnSHTIgI6aepj5DyB VH8ekwcr/zY74HtQHiOMPOqi4TK2HeKEieA/fYDv1OEyO49ymGX+cYayfv9W8ynHhbHY LrcqTR8V5+wn7FM1juV5wU9YpK/l6ltMd8oDCmwGa6Ws9GR3XXHd9TnfarHLP6ZN+I8B fAzwgI6w7sEsSvuorH/CoaoiLMUHEH5M71yT7mrzulKwfPk1CMMqimOi+MucGesRo/mp xj7g== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plXgpMQP0jAnNyjiwqBdCwqKnEAxTCdvvmxyV7RuH+d/7opkuma 9CAbzsZjINbG27Xv6gzgMK+OxyTJ3wNU5gGEGI0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5/EptfTfCqIyNC/eVJoT2Y31R4fUbSofVF1B70SpCH22bBhbwlVw5omch0bD47pRqy7OWgRgoyl7TVs0KU90A= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4995:b0:143:522a:ebcc with SMTP id ho21-20020a056870499500b00143522aebccmr26421160oab.199.1670112042493; Sat, 03 Dec 2022 16:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 3 Dec 2022 16:00:41 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: X-Hashcash: 1:20:221203:rms@gnu.org::MxJfkfxJ+DUHp7gE:535n MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2022 16:00:41 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > > I see no risk that the packages will suddenly go away. Under what > > circumstances would that happen? > > Here are two ways I can envision. > > If somehow the developers are no longer working on it in a way > we can use. > > If it rots and needs substantial change and the developers > are not interested in doing that. I'm positive that these things can and will happen, but that's true also for GNU ELPA and parts of Emacs itself (see lisp/obsolete/*.el). Or indeed with any software. I'm not sure why this would need pointing out specifically in the case of NonGNU ELPA. Software dies at times. C'est la vie. > > But I don't see > > why we need to get into all that in this section, where we are just > > letting people know that GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA exist. > > It's about two lines -- not enough to qualify as "all that". I was thinking more about the concept than the amount of text. It suggests that this concern is somehow specific to NonGNU ELPA. FWIW, I believe the number of packages I've been using that have stopped "being present" in my two decades or so with Emacs are... well, zero. Zero packages. Some are indeed unmaintained, but I still use them and they work as well (or indeed badly) as they did ten or twenty years ago. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16710564565395 (code B ref 59609); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 22:20:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41951 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7T-0001Ox-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47342) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7R-0001Or-Em for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7L-0003Ry-HV; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=dXnLixyzTGWjtVHAf2qE5HFpjh4Ec4w5+O7Xz5Akgis=; b=KZ8vYsD1VJYv tXUpZgvZCkej1BD+wAnsrBe0Q43rYUwxDPSrLab3k6M8++FwINxgfF5296pIyQ4QT3ukFj2/UrBNU FdxpBv9yPxC6C06sOMMqiaf708dJl5I7+dZSdmYctFClHkCul+VS61GMPDVZ22zeo/nFLUjkDPczF SnRYJTR/Z84Ooh9bBr5uqa0etCmYUpNUJ3hyrTnyVlrsOochMGdTrMXs+Pty3a5idwMpfA/FCRekd 8A+23RDXSgjzHQsi2Ea4Aszrb3A9EPbNr7GY9BPmPiOxUT5OkPwAqbW4a6wCwsz38WzsSJ4UxME/S fcGGo73ds8v/ELHvxEM0cg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7K-0003xf-5n; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 3 Dec 2022 16:00:41 -0800) References: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:46 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I was asked this very specific question as part of a discussion of the difference between NonGNU ELPA and GNU ELPA: > > > I see no risk that the packages will suddenly go away. Under what > > > circumstances would that happen? > > Here is how I responded to that one question: > > Here are two ways I can envision. > > > > If somehow the developers are no longer working on it in a way > > we can use. > > > > If it rots and needs substantial change and the developers > > are not interested in doing that. You replied to that response, taking that question out of context: > I'm positive that these things can and will happen, but that's true also > for GNU ELPA and parts of Emacs itself (see lisp/obsolete/*.el). That is true, but because it out of context, it appears to have implications which it does not have. When packages in the Emacs core go unmaintained, but they are still useful, we roll up our sleeves and maintain them. And we will try to do that for GNU ELPA too, because they too are part of Emacs. The point is that NonGNU ELPA packages have lower priority, so if they become unmaintained, we might rather delete them than fix them. Obsolete packages are a different thing. We mark a package obsolete when we think it is _better_ not to maintain it much. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169417236818791 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 11:26:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42350 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeZcm-0004t0-7x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:26:08 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]:60919) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeZch-0004sR-BG for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:26:07 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-501bef6e0d3so3294174e87.1 for <59609@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 04:26:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694172355; x=1694777155; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WTMudBJzQ4hJhajlGrcKzQgR3OzOOwbwnmrQOwiSRHM=; b=qw99u1PxtFdnloRGdbwMJQ8UjTzANH4CoOpNBtq2Dw9ifPsaXaZDbYx2P7Aha8FDtJ 78hKod+eFqTVgOWjcLNry6V7GTUsPnY30sKOYrltCUHF4w/pA6pVIA9NufKNk0yRv3nR M6FasC82SCAEUen9TxumD8izXEsGH9x41xGQ/gV3rW+YkviL55VUUTRjuKeh0JfaFcb2 xk6q/m5ycpqJ6D94Jmv/JeN85Q68Qm2Tp6l9WHMglcyfIApSInnUR9hfXdJAT2qJBDGw y6T/krnwPWPhjj7Zb0sHGwlLu56LcJPKkP51VUm6ZQT1sx3MbUQlbeQ3Lxwfk1igoCEd zFYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694172355; x=1694777155; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WTMudBJzQ4hJhajlGrcKzQgR3OzOOwbwnmrQOwiSRHM=; b=XvAVKWbAaNZtQNK9uyJCMlege60yGDmdExRPmexFXbGcDbVy6Blmzu3z84yhSEyBzE 8BQYksWoeWVhVIeTNzdTBWa6WPMogllKmwrE0yIFiNylNgo46nzMD8uQmM2wfdLQmvqF DUnTQrLXa0M4FPtTTRu2SggljXvUXTAoDKOf+7Wx23atOGF5LTQC1+WapdkxW2P+LpsI RuaJgdZpfERPaqQ/nBczBBAygX5mboAn1JafAxmujDX8yUOOOUH0IuTC5qAe/8h3tThz ooCvShv2kjW4DMyJfC8I06qjUyvoypanA3GtW/ool3imHmlg3yENvbqJYB+oYPlVZKWe ar6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzFExEwhKWbbcPMop6NgNpLjYEG4Skc9hclM8pCQps3IX7RrkNA NPVGNmMeLz/gOSgoMsgL9K1ROOzaihKWNCmz9rKBoKbW X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHqqmb1zxYVSf8nt/t3G5ehkl6hvQKiwfZPfw8xDqZgsoQJfizLDHe88trfVjs/w8lGdazb4i5IX0W22ukxpAk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:ac9:b0:4fe:85c:aeba with SMTP id n9-20020a0565120ac900b004fe085caebamr2380787lfu.21.1694172354991; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 04:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:25:54 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:20:36 +0200") References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:25:54 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > This sounds OK, but begs the question: what's short description of NonGNU > ELPA? Since we describe GNU ELPA, let's also describe the other one. The > purpose should IMO be to explain to the reader, or at least hint why we > maintain two separate archives. What do you think of the below? diff --git a/doc/emacs/package.texi b/doc/emacs/package.texi index cdfb45d2042..3ac7dc83a60 100644 --- a/doc/emacs/package.texi +++ b/doc/emacs/package.texi @@ -38,9 +38,17 @@ Packages By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}), a package archive maintained by the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. It also downloads -packages from NonGNU ELPA (@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}). -Optionally, you can also download packages from archives maintained by -third parties. @xref{Package Installation}. +packages from NonGNU ELPA +(@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}).@footnote{GNU ELPA contains GNU +packages that are available for use with Emacs, but are distributed +separately from Emacs itself, for reasons of space. NonGNU ELPA +contains a selection of third-party packages that can not be included +in GNU ELPA because their copyright has not yet been assigned to the +Free Software Foundation. For more information, see +@uref{https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.html, Why the FSF Gets +Copyright Assignments from Contributors}.} Optionally, you can also +download packages from archives maintained by third parties. +@xref{Package Installation}. For information about turning an Emacs Lisp program into an installable package, @xref{Packaging,,,elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169417422032247 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:57:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 11:57:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qea6e-0008O3-9e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:57:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41360) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qea6b-0008No-Mc for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:56:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qea6U-0006DK-0d; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:56:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=RzYz0JN1rn1BPJDknVi9NmgRlhFLlOXGa7cPlgV0n9A=; b=rwKmejj5XWI2 ItTr12ZkwTJVVRc98DYJ50IX/iJqex+99LMLGVX1MBS0wfyyMLQnR9NFTF0TC34o17c8KgD1f3MrS dS+K9woawRpBrbghml8/Mx1M0GDeTLygpOTNGSOrkPh7yVh2PpJEcyyyPKr/ALZ18afMQPsOyN4TP wz/4i6WsQFnagCkUPg3PUYtwDdh/m9PLpFINY/54DJpGJlPrfhF8ypIRrZ+Z+Woq0UxOwWFiz/T2G UHnMdwnIZjlq0Ch6+kfTv7N7+lvcuzcmQ6q1QyP8wMDbbLc0lGUE5Y4Pa7kRKqoksI6asanlcGbUO ccS5SNvyuh/Wqbubtunc+g==; Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:56:34 +0300 Message-Id: <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:25:54 -0700) References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 04:25:54 -0700 > Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > This sounds OK, but begs the question: what's short description of NonGNU > > ELPA? Since we describe GNU ELPA, let's also describe the other one. The > > purpose should IMO be to explain to the reader, or at least hint why we > > maintain two separate archives. > > What do you think of the below? It's a good starting point, but the copyright assignment issue is not the only issue (not even the main one, from my POV). The main issue with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169418550818948 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 15:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 15:05:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qed2h-0004vY-KV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:05:07 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::232]:42025) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qed2c-0004un-AW for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 11:05:06 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2bcc331f942so26150111fa.0 for <59609@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 08:04:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694185494; x=1694790294; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CFSVEwbSUWuzbsCqVmzqpaOCJZPeUt+fMY5g8q+kY3k=; b=KT1LNzyiuAFlfS0oekzhWvQBeNQUs09ZN8JW0OtR7h1N2jkACr83qHa/AgP1oWlEiB 9+lxtBT1IJdWB0lxZIZIt2qLAPgr09/tBrv519ffLDLDBj7xbf4QBxjJ3YyPBkFYKNHx Ahyom9DMOmkaLYyUPGw4nnWhx8fyzhPBtFoljC7UuTNkk+ueYUeriPsom/pN3Fud7EIK qDOkMZFYPrmmz3dAo+II17y5K8QN9cVQzoMG11gto4oZgFt6fD0zTOJno8Qq0GASafwV SrWRDGigJlrP+rzSt8LF6rLyPyQVNIuD7hJb+94zXf8B3bxrYOySfvVxDvHpKLMSxuB/ u7Yg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694185494; x=1694790294; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CFSVEwbSUWuzbsCqVmzqpaOCJZPeUt+fMY5g8q+kY3k=; b=o3uUOrkIgZsd/3X5Zjra+a4bT/pzrAqidcbWThocNSCXdoz2oIoCMc9lPfQvjVQ2gf hX/XUgm26ZGNnPvnuS4KLueD+IXqWOTH+TgdpPlM3/FPD22RYv6srjv2DGrWXaus3duw +snNUipG7+TCy4nsYjlmbuDNccqsp6Pd0dgJCrl+x+ORkUrUpQy1TpNBLKUNtBiV7M2m zh2U5xolitlj1MCwgQKWcNV+bnv15E7WevJtlcu+OsZ4Vk4MZfQUFeEdzvifOh22zie8 a3N9PnIlVPNqVGgvzTlZ1eTRTiz+HSsdYMhrCgCTfzEISQkuzgyPEqrIsBOPsY+5IzNv tkyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyezZeUUfn94OLiw2zgHGGNAfa8ohrx4yLrGxicCNss/Yr32KwH iuvFWzYBVsXF7u52yLv2BKrhLtWLYxdxzYM7jds= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHmz3bF8V9oGuAznPgSw/4KLehjY2jDckQbZ9rC2xiMu7u371M50KLxbHfLl9H89WYQckd5I+3g2uOHIz9umko= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8791:0:b0:2bb:94e4:6b07 with SMTP id n17-20020a2e8791000000b002bb94e46b07mr1076666lji.12.1694185493686; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 08:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:04:53 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:04:53 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It's a good starting point, but the copyright assignment issue is not > the only issue (not even the main one, from my POV). The main issue > with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere > to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs > maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions > with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less > seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. Thanks, based on that I ended up with this: modified doc/emacs/package.texi @@ -35,10 +35,20 @@ Packages name of a package, and displays a help buffer describing the attributes of the package and the features that it implements. - By default, Emacs downloads packages from a package archive -maintained by the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. -Optionally, you can also download packages from archives maintained by -third parties. @xref{Package Installation}. + By default, Emacs downloads packages from GNU ELPA +(@url{https://elpa.gnu.org/}) and NonGNU ELPA +(@url{https://elpa.nongnu.org/}), two package archives maintained by +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} +contains packages that are available for use with Emacs, but are +distributed separately from Emacs itself. @dfn{NonGNU ELPA} contains +a selection of third-party packages that are not supervised by the +Emacs maintainers, do not necessarily adhere to the Emacs coding +conventions, and do not coordinate their development decisions with +the Emacs team. They have been selected to be useful to many people, +but their integration into Emacs could be less seamless than that of +packages from GNU ELPA. Optionally, you can also download packages +from archives maintained by third parties. @xref{Package +Installation}. 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The main issue > with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere > to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs > maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions > with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less > seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. +1. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16941914136752 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:44:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 16:43:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45373 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeeZx-0001kq-CG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:33 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:57282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qeeZu-0001kc-G1 for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:31 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BA907100084; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:43:22 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1694191397; bh=FIsKmeJQt+sKDPIfSxiVfgApDGpku70vvRU80z0ygtA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=YZr0xy9MD6H7lcTawYYAx8loc1t2iMVCMTE4zeLLGKFssWJ5pR9yMePWzc+ajSWJx RWmnVxJCu1kVy8uoQOI3EAwF9UiArvdaUMQvJp3pPWpK1veQVBDxnS24+frpJbudyN C7dyowGFS2cRdaSrYShhHRlCzOmIr1eCQVOfSCNtZDee2eNZeUMLo71xglZGgDcdnM 8B/UTow+bdvVE/bWYwXXvUIOWEFVScUQhyEVp063PD3IXkmMu5sJlMtDAuQbXDPRaT ff9VxPZK7Azq1AeyN79ZdXqpbNuKgqXvGjtzjq6K/VmD56TO+AZ14DmZXUvGecP6Rm R9xaWYEJA7n8Q== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3C3C4100064; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alfajor (unknown [23.233.149.155]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC756120392; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 12:43:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:56:34 +0300") Message-ID: References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:15 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.258 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > It's a good starting point, but the copyright assignment issue is not > the only issue (not even the main one, from my POV). The main issue > with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere > to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs > maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions > with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less > seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. FWIW, GNU ELPA packages don't necessarily "adhere to the Emacs coding conventions" either and neither are they all "supervised by the Emacs maintainers" or "have to coordinate their development decisions with the Emacs team". Some do, but not all of them by a long shot. In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment (which often ends up selecting for a kind of "philosophical agreement" about the primacy of ethical goals over technical ones). Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16941978115918 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 18:30:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegF9-0001XO-9V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:30:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56214) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegF3-0001VH-T0 for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:30:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qegEv-00078t-F9; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:29:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=tlGaqzd+C01/2bTsHaANUeM/xCZM/iU8WBpWATfp66Y=; b=KKf84G4YjlDl DwynDmP+LF+ZvEXFiCNr2jbaa0KJt9/W0lnpa8ACcveHi26mo8wFxamdDpHYmTzcDvZujjny/JXcC 2VXRvmy+IrT2zj9juflkXvomrsnn1FkR2tWwCD8mWCOS3LvstJYkUYkcR77wQCgkb4DabIxyN9wHh UUk8twMhG7Gk66L27kpHwjANL3Wj3Kj4mgAuq3/Ozw/6uwOX0pH+PaJTUyyIAnjR0Xz8JvYYlORL+ jk0Do9NGYKhAQtRDSR0wJok5CDL84kbEhZ4BAd3CKV8gKCDO1iIvkstZIkle27yUaJ5vMMV/sfuWI 5EfeQL3iXT7HRNzKSdib3w==; Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:29:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:15 -0400) References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Stefan Kangas , 59609@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:15 -0400 > > > It's a good starting point, but the copyright assignment issue is not > > the only issue (not even the main one, from my POV). The main issue > > with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere > > to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs > > maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions > > with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less > > seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. > > FWIW, GNU ELPA packages don't necessarily "adhere to the Emacs coding > conventions" either and neither are they all "supervised by the Emacs > maintainers" or "have to coordinate their development decisions with the > Emacs team". Some do, but not all of them by a long shot. Only because we decide not to do that, or are lazy, or whatever. Basically, it's our decision for GNU ELPA, and not so for NonGNU ELPA. > In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment > (which often ends up selecting for a kind of "philosophical agreement" > about the primacy of ethical goals over technical ones). I think this is just the tip of a very large iceberg, and the FAQ should say that explicitly. Saying that just the CA is the difference is both very inaccurate and misrepresents the actual situation: NonGNU ELPA is a collection of packages that someone else decided could be useful, but we basically have nothing to do with them except hosting them. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Michael Albinus Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , stefankangas@gmail.com Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16941988517497 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 18:47:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45598 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegVv-0001wq-0V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:47:31 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:40617) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegVq-0001wU-G9 for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:47:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1694198834; x=1694803634; i=michael.albinus@gmx.de; bh=QVCD5KNMFuPWOdAeRrt3eZ5EUSXoYm++rrkrfuLfoDE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=NgKWatAx4vX9mLNIRwWSvZNU1nIVC6CtX8U3UV+5PtlxOKhk6DmPvlV8NXLwj5ze9Srhgm8 jKxivbvtzo/8eYxvC1Zx76IX6IGVZ4nZi3xC/0okcJxauQeOvgjTH3LdsbiUb/XwySNjsoI22 I1XASAo1hUUbpeU04CGmSLIJ+cEAVB9qtcX8twN3MSVdgHYJheyot9OF7Tbd9pH+es4GAGGHv qcQa38YNDEmXkMWuCPmCHlZ4fDL+3W3zP7Epv7JuX32zPmBZYW46/ZXqtj4fq1WWduTZYJIok tvJzXzS2kMJ1uCd9j5lLkElItpxBRVaYwzmQ+v6FGpdv7o8fUOKw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([185.89.39.16]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1McY8T-1q4Epj0JkT-00d2WY; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:47:14 +0200 From: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:29:49 +0300") References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:47:12 +0200 Message-ID: <87jzt01ozz.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+lkNDubC3HrxmApIhSjf6FW7B8wkmLKM4ZEJSoInY8QzR22rOwr Du3tPsC2vEIWKRIrNRCZN4KcUFxwJ+4npJid4F5Tl7T453u33xUQ1vihT1YLPlrCmeZUURU g3T0L+AD3hejUb9kqerof9Hay90eyCVRYL4Md6qZVJ+VKS/lLzpnIrVPSS6P4wzAdPFxvY9 JpwyPKmb/Th9NVZhXPGkw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:RaX3CSZn0TI=;NEFe9VZzntk83uoi5sPKKILlG5+ URBEBhSyzRUSGryTFl/Ere/OchFAVZetOzSuYFxU/izh6KJLJkVNQMNzJ8Q0EjCL+UlwStlBN AtoERTfvoJFHzrrbHxmhBGff1Tm1O8OEnFMorSiquIsLysDUYVidHLfVj8cPqAEq8Jt2CcTFQ naAAhfvhfTJSEHgzQ0JRKmnt9bq4jKCFxiC2wDbGyuGGcdQqZ0KVP66MYK/sxGHtEgK8xGgWZ eELj4al6xvKGIYA1FCB1uvHCcU9ZAfA49ykTdVl/vJLcV1s5qwKsj+pFUsFOOB4drG/6ZP6bI 1WpEg4G0HMrvICRpFLCsO9twW9o5FX4DcF1PcMb25RfR0htvfmgh7PxK9UwM2vkxFyxay7oTv fsNLHNK4U9CkM2heuh6jm+PFHN0NsjVjQVGbdprrGPrAtnzDYDwex/wA9z6M/BNyh5w93ZcmF Yp+aFcVqsOygykSvUIG9Ng0OGMsxxfUdRlztoni/Qk1t5fpJKqWvdWbmhlxfNVGCqj0qvomDM 5reHiaTFlmu6rVaA5+ffZ+QMSyDeauHcXBMaiykn9mxtF/6dCxUI4UpACW2XzVioceytkxbhK fYi9h0q0PxMUwAEDYtszbh/FnFIKUGOFLqS+kbnS+82wM3hUixSsA7VtxfAhuciymulYjpi+m b3DWg7SIyBH7zEUYl51+rtpiGeADNZlhXKNc02NRagOMr+cWAfqFPt29tTucT1MaZKfyyZ8HE Mb2WN5RRfL/qqmim9oUA5Wwlh9cD+EuQzBGOMD1iC1l+lMrpnFg16LdezkPfNFvwaoqtA6PTm 1t4RakpqWPjapQo7QkerHbtU//K5egE98sLS76gp7APJ5yeH64zC7VxUafSxiKVGcW4sXeM5p tG00etju5yfs4c5l26a6qtDG03YT2MG7qzhahOI6efHz7bqxKrzqAUNUMCzpb76BBHIPH2gaJ Pm4tFsIsxUUevbv6PVighckvdzE= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment >> (which often ends up selecting for a kind of "philosophical agreement" >> about the primacy of ethical goals over technical ones). > > I think this is just the tip of a very large iceberg, and the FAQ > should say that explicitly. Saying that just the CA is the difference > is both very inaccurate and misrepresents the actual situation: NonGNU > ELPA is a collection of packages that someone else decided could be > useful, but we basically have nothing to do with them except hosting > them. FTR, I feel responsible for GNU ELPA packages in the sense that I would debug them if necessary. For Non-GNU ELPA packages I won't (exceptions possible). Furthermore, we offer debbugs bug tracking for GNU ELPA packages. I don't know whether we offer the same fon Non-GNU ELPA packages. Best regards, Michael. From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169420385626248 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 20:10:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qehob-0006pG-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:10:56 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:60400) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qehoX-0006p0-4c for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:10:52 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 40AD24432DC; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:10:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1694203839; bh=f+umUqArEsyq5Ruer6fND3ggQEWo/2f6iqRCqvFCW04=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=c95+noJU6bF0zCEKRn/JW3ZwRGe4/0HJ759F33qPHte7wu+W363QDtNEVrLBFOJSz nMc6zyJBQkpWHuJv8TyDjenRMRqQhdg6nqeJIBoR+qdWSlMGPK2K877Z27RqKgXS9C I7r++N4X/Bl3Sq5lbWwoIpwBm/So7SPCzyr3WXzVeW9UsiB/96+wF7p3pud8ua/nyJ 6ctiXhXsJSGyQRTH61oAcxFtoXYyqyd/my/2MjFqB34jrjMRaZ8XkMjKg3fk2xrHvB dPO+0vsnWOzUsZBKiOveBwNvgTL+gOR6H5psWoAByjigHLzTzaINYXODQEdvEcaB93 mCscAk3ZXkyqQ== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5F3EE44327A; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [104.247.229.91]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3793A1203CE; Fri, 8 Sep 2023 16:10:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:29:49 +0300") Message-ID: References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 16:10:38 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.072 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> FWIW, GNU ELPA packages don't necessarily "adhere to the Emacs coding >> conventions" either and neither are they all "supervised by the Emacs >> maintainers" or "have to coordinate their development decisions with the >> Emacs team". Some do, but not all of them by a long shot. > > Only because we decide not to do that, or are lazy, or whatever. > Basically, it's our decision for GNU ELPA, and not so for NonGNU ELPA. We have just as much control in one as in the other, in practice. Maybe we tend to invest more efforts in the GNU part, but I'd argue that it's not "because it's in GNU" but because there is a positive correlation between people agreeing to assign their copyright and people sharing our goals. >> In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment >> (which often ends up selecting for a kind of "philosophical agreement" >> about the primacy of ethical goals over technical ones). > I think this is just the tip of a very large iceberg, and the FAQ > should say that explicitly. When I said: In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment I really meant that this is usually the only factor that makes me decide whether to add a package to GNU or to NonGNU. I can't speak for Philip, but I have the impression he does the same. > Saying that just the CA is the difference is both very inaccurate and > misrepresents the actual situation: NonGNU ELPA is a collection of > packages that someone else decided could be useful, but we basically > have nothing to do with them except hosting them. "someone else"? Packages are added there by "us": % git log -- elpa-packages| grep Author: | sort | uniq -c | sort -n 1 Author: Alfred M. Szmidt 1 Author: Bastien 1 Author: Bozhidar Batsov 1 Author: Bozhidar Batsov 1 Author: Daniel Mendler 1 Author: Danny Freeman 1 Author: Distopico 1 Author: Dmitry Gutov 1 Author: Joseph Turner 1 Author: Sean Whitton 1 Author: Tassilo Horn 1 Author: yilkalargaw 3 Author: Daniel Semyonov 3 Author: Eshel Yaron 7 Author: Jonas Bernoulli 15 Author: Akib Azmain Turja 18 Author: Stefan Kangas 49 Author: Stefan Kangas 49 Author: Stefan Monnier 87 Author: Philip Kaludercic % The result is not really different for `elpa.git`. Several NonGNU packages are (co)maintained by "us" (i.e. people who are regular contributors to Emacs) and on the flip side, there are many GNU ELPA packages for which "we basically have nothing to do with them except hosting them". I don't deny that there are other statistically qualitative differences between GNU and NonGNU, but I think they're very fuzzy and to a large extent they can be seen as a consequence of the copyright paperwork (which makes it possible to imagine the package as being part of Emacs, for example, thus justifying their presence in Debbugs). Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Monnier Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169439283222268 (code B ref 59609); Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2023 00:40:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUye-0005n5-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyZ-0005mo-Ay for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyP-00024C-Sc; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Op2sgCVD+2poeN/5H/FRQpAN9c8cPVw9PtcgrX7lGzI=; b=RhTq3Zpxm9FS FtT5OS03837HwOb4B/aEusz6D5QljOXIOkMFImz7TU62VbXrXAvxhgy0MHdSTqRcbNy9SWWgJJG+G r71Y1asYHMSHjgUS4ER32E64JbTteTWPi02Ul2g039Yo18wWwpC0ZcGWz2F+HonhtkdEBtjoczjlF 8iWHWoVyu5WUlJr0R+awYwCIBTA13KohPOlSlchj7KyDcC1ajEfT0krK1MnkJ7izhvwTFe9fUkHuW uiB+dg9skdkU8aTMWHB1xDjmkKXek9sVgxfwGXfUeJiLamarexE4MKzFI8SeIc/FK9epJEzhp7Zsh fA59CtXHR3w2HTx2iSgLkQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyP-0006Tl-I2; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Only because we decide not to do that, or are lazy, or whatever. > > Basically, it's our decision for GNU ELPA, and not so for NonGNU ELPA. > We have just as much control in one as in the other, in practice. Does "have" here stand for "exercise"? I think so. With GNU ELPA packages, in principle we can make the changes we wish. However, for several reasons, we normally let the package developers alone, except when there is an important reason to do otherwise, which is rare. When it makes sense for them to work independently, it is better that they do. It's the same for packages in core Emacs, those that have specific developers. We likewise let them do their work on their own as much as possible. However, it's different for NonGNU ELPA packages. We would not want to do more on them than fix small instances of bit-rot or simple failures to fit into Emacs, even if the package becomes unmaintained. Beyond that is not our responsibility. If in practice we get involved in most of the packages that are part of Emacs so rarely that it doesn't look very different from NonGNU ELPA, that means we are doing well -- but that doesn't change the fact that those categories are different in principle. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169439283722285 (code B ref 59609); Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2023 00:40:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyj-0005nM-Fd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyh-0005my-ET for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyY-00025P-Db; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Hwd4tghYIonKZwDLzqbsB4f4EZO4tsrHMPdgdB1BvRE=; b=l+Q8tM7o/fBB PZcm+k042XW9X6uNqIlkh8osiFebdYbCfS05GAOcZsKFu/fBjsqNHU6hZEY+qYvU8P6HBAM5niy1y QXhWr4zqqYMERdPkbSJoiMRlhVIGeAw5QxvClCz4aAk7PuhjH7XM0o2XsHx5q1hy3dU+NXfcTS4QH abD6HZKnHFxbeEtMgRImM9iTI+eRsF8YDdlvtn4fL45klbDdYFH9vUBljser5GJfTXGpvneOvcBtt NZpq4Kz6tRvq2+gcyn4CzDMFhBsRhAC8PZgU2d28F4RnGSMb2gBvCDkcQdJ9vUa6L2ntLyYYZlClt keZ1UpAPRvAmuVwFjDm+aw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyX-0006ZZ-8f; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 8 Sep 2023 08:04:53 -0700) References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:25 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] To make this cleader: > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > +contains packages that are available for use with Emacs, but are > +distributed separately from Emacs itself. Let's use > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > +contains packages that we consider part of GNU Emacs, but that we > +distribute separately from the core Emacs. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 02:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Richard Stallman Cc: eliz@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , 59609@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169440057012304 (code B ref 59609); Mon, 11 Sep 2023 02:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2023 02:49:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51705 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfWzS-0003CO-3p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:30 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:29625) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfWzQ-0003CC-QO for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:29 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9C8E91000BD; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:19 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1694400558; bh=U6jM6CVJqGzm2VPDL8tePvURzTUI5zJqDFTWkUKbb58=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=D2kNr7KZ3HJWNQHH9XPRJ8iOEU0kACpTg+rxByEpCpXCdI6XhgPzp6CPzOsDPSvSs 7GIAkmAFPrcuDJBroY+rzFNzZGDeRc2ieMpmWtz2+a+c8ZetWJ8G3R6S+wm0zqekZr zvDVCV/47Uf6fxMLQ815VpV0pxoDM/Ii23uqJoooLWw0Sduz5i/YUYFEPmV2Iuvpzy ayJhR8ZBD9hru6ZTG5EKSE7SN2j1Vb61DtQITpf5CsJiJkdjhAw/4NPzog+7SCStKO nvow6B37yfjVXu0LfxeyR9PJrEYloXVg6UG10eo209ujF+wBK85v7Qe38n+swb2u7I aiukMsn4s2KpA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 94BFE100068; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pastel (unknown [104.247.229.91]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D7861202DD; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:25 -0400") Message-ID: References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:49:17 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.063 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > > +contains packages that are available for use with Emacs, but are > > +distributed separately from Emacs itself. > > Let's use > > > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > > +contains packages that we consider part of GNU Emacs, but that we > > +distribute separately from the core Emacs. I like that, thanks. Stefan From unknown Sun Aug 17 01:59:20 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Stefan Kangas Subject: bug#59609: closed (Re: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 59609 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch Reply-To: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 15:44:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1739375042-13786-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1739375042-13786-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 59609@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 59609: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D59609 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1739375042-13786-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 59609-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2025 15:43:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37834 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tiEtZ-0003Yz-56 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Feb 2025 10:43:25 -0500 Received: from mail-ej1-x630.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::630]:52610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tiEtW-0003Yi-AL for 59609-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Feb 2025 10:43:22 -0500 Received: by mail-ej1-x630.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-aaedd529ba1so846346166b.1 for <59609-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Feb 2025 07:43:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1739374996; x=1739979796; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AhkYGPp7Ft6CDvECFW8eNcyndUbAcjfaZ+81teA5rlU=; b=LZMNgO/J+VWQnsW7M4TPKGgvtUCm2CWqok8NAHdr2MQqNIeYWWnZye1riKBMQuEApM weg2TiO/zv0kCZvWxYr1/CksJDdhyDsQaRL2Cn3ojlrV8nHSP+Bnk4Ka+wOkph5zcBK4 zTGVxKb88rkBfb4wNa5VE55DfvSktSxrViwhONlDbHR0VvcvssFfEZ1UZrD8U99QoFyu D2+XDVuhsU+mWh5rp3FVY8/9R/fouJlGmpEhdS9yrH3qP4+X4n+N6aPsjdnY2WOs6d5B +u71aI6YKARwqE482EZoB/ElayM6FuiczfIm0ObNUgFaFgHjcyeEXwU6E5QqkZT5bHku y7mA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1739374996; x=1739979796; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AhkYGPp7Ft6CDvECFW8eNcyndUbAcjfaZ+81teA5rlU=; b=VKVg8TejPMMhk/eBIJMFB6ke1sBk78sqllgZ7FYU8av9KVBTRQsQyhDW3etsPCxJI5 J1mADspgN6zSKRbwjSe1GVVMUR0cV3D7o6oj2xf030cEJd9LN3B+9hvT53huV4QpKE1E 16WZEgI349ItLF4eSb+yyWY1pb2VOn+PixbVY49LPdOCG7+9F1Lyv7+GhecflzlUJ25M ISuZ5sx/S6CO2QutqsNoM5xJ4V0eB07a5O5GNfz7HwPJ5fKQi0gwTafUWKlNbNc0dbBL gFgyB3W4X2mot/TT2Trsk4K+HjjJv/9AazhRwnAL9gBhfE0ZZoynnefs9pfL1NCG3s9g hnlQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWYr7r5J1nCCj7yqNIQ3x4mY6k/JQW7y5YMMhtqxTGoznnQMk2IkE5byWj16WZTZx3TuuLHcldva2uM@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwR8XSLgkRZeYpUXYR/f+G2fGSdIyWubIF0SnEpsyMLHHVgegAK la94RDEDGcdk4mCG/D1N7GjanEc7s+jvhK3Mkbtp0Jlo17zoHy6ZSKmlTocENDmA/nXfzVPC5j5 mrWVoge3+V17TXS6BkkCfZ38AiCM= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctuc6Bl4g7E4dwNWamsiPvOiPPuZfrWlCdAA95G2jgrI29+ca9n4yQEKBf6/iO C5WSayUZCOSQmVym6u/Ogn5NybYtByV9Bkjtd7DRe4g7tmnKbNOJXPCf4CQ2BQ1OxPfM989o3X2 Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFpDtd0iI2xkHyszx5f2iUcMh/5TB2/S8VK9S/xkyFl3jYrj59kb4/oF4PbKdy8baT83Sib6/S2OB9oIjwxjlM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1e94:b0:5de:3d2d:46ce with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5deadddd61amr7616881a12.25.1739374995843; Wed, 12 Feb 2025 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 12 Feb 2025 07:43:15 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 07:43:15 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZlkg8JbTaRE4fgV9miicGb70Edne2JemXEEBfB2Ij7hELbY1xm7HycDikw Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual To: Richard Stallman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 59609-done Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 59609-done@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Version: 30.1 Richard Stallman writes: > To make this cleader: > > > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > > +contains packages that are available for use with Emacs, but are > > +distributed separately from Emacs itself. > > Let's use > > > +the Emacs developers and hosted by the GNU project. @dfn{GNU ELPA} > > +contains packages that we consider part of GNU Emacs, but that we > > +distribute separately from the core Emacs. There were many suggestions in this thread. I tried to get them all into one patch, and pushed them to emacs-30 as commit 6701866be4d. Feel free to make any appropriate tweaks or adjustments. ------------=_1739375042-13786-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Nov 2022 13:44:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38217 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTk-00045T-CB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:24 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:44612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTh-00045J-L8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTh-0007K4-G4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:21 -0500 Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oyvTf-0000LV-NI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:44:21 -0500 Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id t62so7075781oib.12 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h9B9BLt9NqBEKxsuAiRvA7YzkwaOTv+is9Bc67t+1lE=; b=GNizirdeFv8gokL0Kt9qgzqwOk05bTcpXj6PF9IpBpba4U6LR8pQTipSEJDfVY2Y4/ Ks3Mzn/xMYrjZHw01Bo4P4DFT8BvrUSvCo7iKBeMjVwLdZAan3pU5ox4Hvqw0M0r34rd FMgGgSmeIeLmLd2x6RzMcJr41vZe1Cgn3Uoy3o/a8t73k2JS7cLf++1ie749Y1N53tkD YZg/yz3Brk83icvR8Ng9cC+wh14Tcdwf8tH3SOnZ8QsZoT151vrvmxnsNK8yLyhwSsuf FV7U24CfEIxvwIV3OE9BWgsXrU8Xo6cHy4zT73dRBXOvntRwEsdKbzPtDqIV+wqueb+F F0Lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h9B9BLt9NqBEKxsuAiRvA7YzkwaOTv+is9Bc67t+1lE=; b=IZFWsHVWghws2L2chrtoodWBsoWyGIAIANjOqxNqNfSU0BdJHqUGKvmjJB5jiQYFom NnnB1/tduwK9TQky2iO5bfQpaDFviplTlmQMFS9GjC8pVvRhxCaIxQo9Em4f779kDYZy /8BHvF+lc+BCFXqrsSxMpxfZxloHE6CLecnx0FjVfNJjArqp6qGD5oNlqDOiReJE49F9 +JELUBxOAMaJakp5WuO+rd6za1HAA/4frEBKYDzVVtoDXGzfu91R50aN17lltS5/u1Pk 6K1X0KGDBMOXalTMJTVygKiFlVre5l35mVH3NpD8rHt/FvI+TLfIymH2Fknx5v+OdfSB rrpg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plLMnkKskl2ZQ7I9tO2uDAXteq+KcmrM82g4362OcxJUrKLl5mi aqx0ns3NtgL4btGG+eeJHAks++rOvWoswjLOdlMzfzwzopM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5uuuigLMYtikiCClGQB2Ok7211q9y/SKvTEl/2Eo1PdjUfNO3K7vtjf1I5tpfcWjWJlbWKj+StwlbsMUTd/Lk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1287:b0:359:dc32:4f9e with SMTP id a7-20020a056808128700b00359dc324f9emr12309085oiw.92.1669470258481; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas X-Debbugs-CC: Stefan Monnier X-Hashcash: 1:20:221126:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org::WyfQvkZ9BiAfCb/F:soX MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:44:17 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::235; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x235.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Severity: wishlist See the attached patch, which advertises (Non-)GNU ELPA a bit more in the manual. This would help make those archives more well-known and attractive to users and package developers. Thoughts? --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Advertise-Non-GNU-ELPA-more.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Advertise-Non-GNU-ELPA-more.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f24a5bda3fc0cd1b_0.1 RnJvbSBhOTBiOGU1MTc0YjZiZGE1NDhjMDhkMWNlMWYxMWI2NWZjNTY0ZTYwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDI2IE5vdiAyMDIyIDE0OjM5OjAzICswMTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g QWR2ZXJ0aXNlIChOb24tKUdOVSBFTFBBIG1vcmUKCiogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aSAo UGFja2FnZXMpOiBBZHZlcnRpc2UgKE5vbi0pR05VIEVMUEEKbW9yZS4KLS0tCiBkb2MvZW1hY3Mv cGFja2FnZS50ZXhpIHwgNiArKysrLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA0IGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyks IDIgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aSBiL2Rv Yy9lbWFjcy9wYWNrYWdlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggY2Q0YzExM2FlNS4uY2RjNWIzZGJjOCAxMDA2NDQK LS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3BhY2thZ2UudGV4aQorKysgYi9kb2MvZW1hY3MvcGFja2FnZS50ZXhp CkBAIC0zNSw4ICszNSwxMCBAQCBQYWNrYWdlcwogbmFtZSBvZiBhIHBhY2thZ2UsIGFuZCBkaXNw bGF5cyBhIGhlbHAgYnVmZmVyIGRlc2NyaWJpbmcgdGhlCiBhdHRyaWJ1dGVzIG9mIHRoZSBwYWNr YWdlIGFuZCB0aGUgZmVhdHVyZXMgdGhhdCBpdCBpbXBsZW1lbnRzLgogCi0gIEJ5IGRlZmF1bHQs IEVtYWNzIGRvd25sb2FkcyBwYWNrYWdlcyBmcm9tIGEgcGFja2FnZSBhcmNoaXZlCi1tYWludGFp bmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBFbWFjcyBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIEdOVSBwcm9qZWN0 LgorICBCeSBkZWZhdWx0LCBFbWFjcyBkb3dubG9hZHMgcGFja2FnZXMgZnJvbSBHTlUgRUxQQQor KEB1cmx7aHR0cHM6Ly9lbHBhLmdudS5vcmcvfSksIGEgcGFja2FnZSBhcmNoaXZlIG1haW50YWlu ZWQgYnkgdGhlCitFbWFjcyBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIGFuZCBob3N0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIEdOVSBwcm9qZWN0 LiAgSXQgYWxzbyBkb3dubG9hZHMKK3BhY2thZ2VzIGZyb20gTm9uR05VIEVMUEEgKEB1cmx7aHR0 cHM6Ly9lbHBhLm5vbmdudS5vcmcvfSkuCiBPcHRpb25hbGx5LCB5b3UgY2FuIGFsc28gZG93bmxv YWQgcGFja2FnZXMgZnJvbSBhcmNoaXZlcyBtYWludGFpbmVkIGJ5CiB0aGlyZCBwYXJ0aWVzLiAg QHhyZWZ7UGFja2FnZSBJbnN0YWxsYXRpb259LgogCi0tIAoyLjM1LjEKCg== --000000000000b8702a05ee5fd52a-- ------------=_1739375042-13786-1--