From unknown Tue Aug 12 07:34:02 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#588 <588@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#588 <588@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.0.60; with-ns emacs crash Reply-To: bug#588 <588@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 14:34:02 +0000 retitle 588 23.0.60; with-ns emacs crash reassign 588 emacs,ns submitter 588 Lennart Staflin severity 588 normal thanks From lenst@lysator.liu.se Mon Jul 21 09:37:16 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, IMPRONONCABLE_1,IMPRONONCABLE_2,MURPHY_WRONG_WORD1,MURPHY_WRONG_WORD2, PHONENUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Jul 2008 16:37:16 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m6LGbBsf015946 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:37:12 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:35483 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KKyNA-00062F-Vk for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:36:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KKyNk-0006Ut-Au for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:37:10 -0400 Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se ([130.236.254.3]:60670) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KKyNj-0006Ta-Lq for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:37:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8A922EBB66 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:37:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lenin.lysator.liu.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 19561-01-31 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:36:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [172.17.0.4] (90-229-134-84-no52.tbcn.telia.com [90.229.134.84]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17E322E8D51 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:36:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4884BB23.8010501@lysator.liu.se> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:36:51 +0200 From: Lennart Staflin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org Subject: 23.0.60; with-ns emacs crash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at lysator.liu.se X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) Emacs crashes randomly (it seems), but with similar backtraces: #0 0x00160380 in ns_free_indexed_color (idx=0, f=0x1359230) at nsterm.m:1310 color_table = (struct ns_color_table *) 0x1 #1 0x00187200 in x_clear_image_1 (f=0x0, img=0x1359110, pixmap_p=-1073749824, mask_p=1, colors_p=1) at image.c:1709 No locals. #2 0x00186bd0 in free_image (f=0x0, img=0x1359110) at image.c:1393 c = (struct image_cache *) 0x1 #3 0x00187730 in clear_image_cache (f=0xab1410, filter=41944073) at image.c:1926 img = (struct image *) 0x1359110 t = { tv_sec = 1216657515, tv_usec = 916984 } old = 1216655715 i = 0 nfreed = 1 c = (struct image_cache *) 0xaeb9f0 #4 0x00187830 in clear_image_caches (filter=41944073) at image.c:1963 tail = 7 #5 0x00035914 in redisplay_internal (preserve_echo_area=0) at xdisp.c:12038 w = (struct window *) 0x13f55e0 f = (struct frame *) 0xa0001fac pause = 0 must_finish = 1 tlbufpos = { charpos = 1409044, bytepos = 722692 } number_of_visible_frames = 1 count = 2 count1 = 3228748 polling_stopped_here = 1 old_frame = 11211796 consider_all_windows_p = 1 #6 0x000997cc in read_char (commandflag=1, nmaps=4, maps=0xbfffefe0, prev_event=41944073, used_mouse_menu=0xbffff04c, end_time=0x0) at keyboard.c:2687 c = 41944073 count = 3442636 jmpcount = 154275 local_getcjmp = {0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1073747176, -1073746584, 2, 3, 1, 0, -1073747480, 0, 0, -1073747504, 8, -1073747536, 1306672, -1073747376, 0, 1311296, 0, 0, 0, 41944073, 16959901, 16959877, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 41944073, 16959901, 16959877, 0, 0, 0, 94321365, 0, -1073747504, 60870539, 94321356, 20080164, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 10, 0, 3207296, 3229032, 3, -1073746916, 0, 0, 20081524, 20081520, 94402849, 41944073, 1065108, -1073747232, 0, 1065900, 612, 0, 0, -1, 0, -1073747232, 93898752, 1, 0, 0, 13, 4, 0, 0, 3207296, 0, 2564, 3207296, 3207296, 3207296, 3207296, 3207296, 3207296, 3229032, 3229032, 3229032, 0, -1073746916, 1, 20081520, 94402849, -1073747232, 1066344, -1073747088, 603988514, 1067724, 0, 3471252, 3207216, 3229032, 3229032, 3229032, 1, 0, 1, -1073746920, 42030809, -1073746824, -1073746920, -1073746916, 0, 824, 0, 1748240, 148624, 3199596, 1401744, -1073747056, 3443808, 41974297, 3229032, 3236164, 1, 0, 41894024, -1073746920, 41944073, 3442472, 1073476, -1073746976, 603988516, 1073904, 310816, -1073746992, -1073746912, 310832, 840300, -1073746976, 1207968290, 840380, 1762032, 1, -1073746872, 1734520, 123632, -1073746928, 3207296, 3229032, 3229032, 3229032, 1, -1073746676, 1, 1, 1, -1073746676, 1074160, -1073746880, 1140859426, 1074220, 1, -1073746816, 60673953, -1073746944, 1066344, -1073746800, 603988514, 1067724, 164896, -1073746816, 41944073, 94402849, 48, -1073746832, 3238544, -1073746408, -1073746752, 3200320} save_jump = {42030809, -1073746880, 1066344, -1073746736, 0, 1067016, 0, 0, 3207216, 3207216, 3207216, 6, 1306672, 20789540, 1391024, -1073746752, 50112145, 1390204, -1073746680, -1073746676, 1, 63688, 0, -1073746720, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3207296, 0, -1073746672, 148371, 148370, 1391024, -1073746672, 3470884, 1391144, 1057436, -1073746640, 603980324, 20789540, 1391024, -1073746640, 0, 1390204, 0, -1073746752, 2458443, 41944073, 3442452, -1073746608, 3243968, 3442452, 1408960, -1073746592, 0, 1409044, 0, -1073746560, 148370, 148369, 1391024, -1073746560, 3230528, 1391144, 42104953, 41944073, 3442452, 41944073, 1395520, -1073746496, 42104953, 1395748, 1419360, -1073746512, 0, 20789540, 20789536, -1073746496, 3243968, 3442452, 1408960, -1073746480, -1073745236, 1409044, 722692, 1186960, 20789536, 41944073, -1, 1, 3230528, 18475061, 41971561, 41944073, 3442452, 41944073, 1395520, -1073746400, 41971561, 1395748, 1011504, -1073746400, -1073745256, 1409228, 3197476, 3207296, 3207296, 1186960, 3239728, 20789536, 148371, 41971561, -1, -1073746336, 41971561, 20789540, 20789536, -1073746336, 1186968, -1073746224, 1011504, -1073746096, 1140851266, 1012172, 1231280, -1073746304, 1, 1231392, 3200352, -1073746272, -1073746256, -1073746220, 2, -1073746256, 148370, 148369, 1391024, -1073746256, -1073746248, 1391144, 1048004, -1073746224, 603988516, 1053708, 981216, -1073746192, 2738628, 981384, 1, -1073745872, 42030449, -1, -4, -1073746192, 3243968, 3442452, 1408960, -1073746176, 3207296, 8118472, 41944073, 50160497, 1, 50160497, 983744, -1073746144, 3230528, 983864, 42104857, 41944073, 3442452, 41944073, 1395520, -1073746096, 42104857, 1395748, 1409280, -1073746096, -2021289069, -1073746336, 40, 58730865, 1, 8118480, 677188, -1073745984, 3197476, 677440, 1, 155326} key_already_recorded = 0 tem = 20288048 save = 3442828 previous_echo_area_message = 41944073 also_record = 41944073 reread = 0 polling_stopped_here = 3442616 orig_kboard = (struct kboard *) 0xa28000 #7 0x0009d30c in read_key_sequence (keybuf=0xbffff158, bufsize=30, prompt=41944073, dont_downcase_last=3207296, can_return_switch_frame=3453936, fix_current_buffer=3207296) at keyboard.c:9431 interrupted_kboard = (KBOARD *) 0xa28000 used_mouse_menu = 4 echo_local_start = -1073745984 last_real_key_start = 4 keys_local_start = -1073745952 local_first_binding = 41869165 from_string = -1073745984 count = 641572 t = -1073745632 echo_start = 1140851266 keys_start = 642512 nmaps = 1391024 nmaps_allocated = -1073745888 defs = (Lisp_Object * volatile) 0x30fdc4 submaps = (Lisp_Object * volatile) 0x153a28 orig_local_map = 1378732 orig_keymap = 16959501 localized_local_map = 17170757 first_binding = 41869165 first_unbound = 7581005 mock_input = 20789540 fkey = { parent = 41944073, map = 0, start = 0, end = 31 } keytran = { parent = 0, map = 0, start = 41944073, end = 40 } indec = { parent = -1, map = 41944073, start = 20212048, end = 0 } shift_translated = 1186960 delayed_switch_frame = 41944073 original_uppercase = 2 original_uppercase_position = 0 starting_buffer = (struct buffer *) 0x7be33d fake_prefixed_keys = 0 #8 0x0009f4b8 in command_loop_1 () at keyboard.c:1653 cmd = 3442452 lose = 3442452 nonundocount = 0 keybuf = {41974753, 18466053, -1073745472, 603980354, 618012, 0, -1073745472, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 60687382, 3, 0, 0, 60687382, 3225344, 3442472, 3442452, 41944073, 41944073, 3453576, 3453572, 589116, 618080, -1073745312, 570425890, 618448, 0} i = 3442452 prev_modiff = 2564 prev_buffer = (struct buffer *) 0x13d3920 already_adjusted = 0 #9 0x001023d8 in internal_condition_case (bfun=0x9f070 , handlers=41983713, hfun=0x96e50 ) at eval.c:1511 val = 0 c = { tag = 41944073, val = 41944073, next = 0xbffff698, gcpro = 0x0, jmp = {-1073745312, 3470928, 0, 0, 3203488, 0, 3203488, 3203488, 3203488, 2, -1073743032, 2, -1073743044, 3442472, 3453680, 41944073, 41944073, 0, 0, 589116, 1057436, 1057636, 603980360, 3210684, 1057436, 1057636, -524288, -2113781760, 0, -1073745220, -524288, -2113781760, 0, -1073745204, -1073743032, 1, 40, -1610576532, -1610569748, 92274688, -1610562188, -1610576532, -1610576532, 10532848, -1610569748, -1073744944, -1610569748, 1216644346, -1610562188, 10532944, 10573616, 10, -1878845492, -1073744928, -1610599536, -1878950620, -1879034992, -1073744880, 1140884002, -1879034368, -1073743044, -1073744752, -1073742712, 3181836, 15, 3203488, -1073744760, 5563930, 8392000, -1073744816, 8388688, -1880767128, -1881079300, -1073744816, 1140851240, -1881078444, -1610569748, -1073744816, -1610569748, 1216644346, -1610562188, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, 1089333455, -1111290538, 1051532128, 0, 1089333452, -203605066, 0, 0, 1085022207, -3497184, 1068912430, -1929379840, 1085022207, -3497184, 1068912430, -1929379840, -1073743896, 6, 6, 957184, -1073744640, 8388688, 957204, -1881123184, -1073744608, 10586496, -1881123000, 1019148, -1073744592, 1140851234, 958008, -1073743044, 3442472, 3219912, -1880767128, 3219912, 8388688, 5538299, 5040, -1881077508, -1073744528, -1073742712, -1881077108, 3442452, 800, 3182732, 3471180, 1020044, -1073744464, 10586496, -1881057576, 1019148, -1073744464, -1073742712, 8392000, 1020044, 800, -1073743896, 6, 1020044, -1073744464, 1140851234, 4096, -1880795504, 0, 8388688, 73, -1881123184, -1073744432, 4, -1881123000, 6, 1, 0, 6, 6, 3203488, -1073742712, 2, 3442452, 800, 3182732, 3471180, 1020044, -1073743104, 3453680, 41944073}, backlist = 0x0, handlerlist = 0x0, lisp_eval_depth = 0, pdlcount = 2, poll_suppress_count = 1, interrupt_input_blocked = 0, byte_stack = 0x0 } h = { handler = 41983713, var = 41944073, chosen_clause = 41944121, tag = 0xbffff2ac, next = 0x0 } #10 0x0008fd70 in command_loop_2 () at keyboard.c:1369 No locals. #11 0x00102260 in internal_catch (tag=0, func=0x8fd30 , arg=41944073) at eval.c:1247 c = { tag = 41979785, val = 41944073, next = 0x0, gcpro = 0x0, jmp = {-1073744288, 0, 0, 0, 3203488, 0, 3203488, 3203488, 3203488, 2, -1073743032, 2, -1073743044, 3442472, 3453680, 41944073, 0, 0, 0, 3453444, 1057132, 1057352, 603980418, 56383310, 92325907, 92325907, -524288, -2113519616, 0, -1073744216, -1073743952, 0, -1073744000, 359856, -1073744000, 0, 360092, 78, -1073743776, 78, 1, 957184, -1073743968, 75, 3219604, 92325832, 0, 3219604, 3465564, 0, -1073743872, 0, 75, -1, 1, -1073743248, 0, 152, -1610599536, 9, 92274688, 9, -1610599536, -1610599536, 152, -1879034992, -1073743840, 603996706, -1879034368, 3465512, 50254456, 1104948, 1068912430, 0, -1073743776, -1073743264, 1, 588, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, -1035222635, -2021289069, 1089333455, -1111290538, 1051532128, 0, 1089333452, -203605066, 0, 0, 1085022207, -3497184, 1068912430, -1929379840, -1073743616, -1073743032, 953668, 3200, -1610599536, 1, 92274688, 10, -1610599536, -1610599536, 3200, -1879034992, -1073743600, 9, 1, -1073743044, 10, -1073742712, 10, 10, 0, 92332544, 1520, 3203488, 2, -1073743032, 2, 41, -1610599536, -1073742712, 92274688, 10, -1610599536, -1610599536, 41, -1879034992, -1073743472, 1140851234, -1879034368, 1305856, -1073743456, 22036808, 1520, 13444, -1073743504, 3203488, 953668, 0, 22035992, -1073743248, 0, -1073743288, 10, 9, 3232436, -1073743044, 3203488, -1073742712, 80, 3203488, 2, -1073743032, 2, 3203488, 2, -1073743032, 2, 172, -1073743392, -1073742712, 92274688, 3442452, -1073743392, -1610599536, 172, -1879034992, -1073743344, 1140851234}, backlist = 0x0, handlerlist = 0x0, lisp_eval_depth = 0, pdlcount = 2, poll_suppress_count = 1, interrupt_input_blocked = 0, byte_stack = 0x0 } #12 0x0008fa20 in command_loop () at keyboard.c:1348 No locals. #13 0x0008fb48 in recursive_edit_1 () at keyboard.c:957 count = 1 val = 41944073 #14 0x0008fcd4 in Frecursive_edit () at keyboard.c:1019 count = 0 buffer = 41944073 #15 0x0008f320 in main (argc=800, argv=0xbffffc88) at emacs.c:1796 dummy = 0 stack_bottom_variable = -113 '\217' do_initial_setlocale = 2 skip_args = 2 rlim = { rlim_cur = 8388608, rlim_max = 67108864 } no_loadup = 0 junk = 0x0 In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.11.0, *Step 9.0) of 2008-07-21 on sin configured using `configure '--with-ns'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8 value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: nil value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Fundamental Minor modes in effect: show-paren-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t cua-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t global-auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t abbrev-mode: t Recent input: Recent messages: Loading ~/emacs/lenst-lisp/lenst (compiled; note, source file is newer)... Loading /Users/lenst/emacs/lenst-lisp/loaddefs.el (source)...done Loading /Users/lenst/emacs/lenst-lisp/suck.el (source)...done Loading ~/emacs/lenst-lisp/lenst (compiled; note, source file is newer)...done Loading /Users/lenst/emacs/lisp/loaddefs.el (source)...done Loading paren...done Loading /Users/lenst/.emacs-records...done For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. From rgm@gnu.org Mon Aug 11 23:45:26 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20,MISSING_SUBJECT, NOSUBJECT,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Aug 2008 06:45:26 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7C6jMip022576 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:45:23 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KSnc2-00073z-SL; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:44:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18593.12602.771934.378466@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:44:10 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: control X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: yellow X-Ran: ^zvilCiM|/xy|KKh#"o,I)5m($%ktQ.J~*7Lcs+,_4/f8DSU:Bs2DQg`l,s}+R11g{B445 X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes merge 678 693 698 tags 645 moreinfo reassign 593 emacs,ns reassign 588 emacs,ns reassign 586 emacs,ns reassign 574 emacs,ns reassign 578 emacs,ns reassign 589 emacs,ns reassign 590 emacs,ns reassign 596 emacs,ns reassign 599 emacs,ns reassign 600 emacs,ns reassign 602 emacs,ns reassign 605 emacs,ns reassign 606 emacs,ns reassign 614 emacs,ns reassign 615 emacs,ns reassign 616 emacs,ns reassign 620 emacs,ns reassign 655 emacs,ns reassign 659 emacs,ns tags 670 moreinfo reassign 677 emacs,ns From rgm@gnu.org Fri Oct 3 10:39:01 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_SUBJECT, NOSUBJECT,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,X_DEBBUGS_NO_ACK autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 3 Oct 2008 17:39:01 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m93HctOU019316 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:38:56 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KloZy-0002UG-5J; Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:36:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <18662.22566.92465.183621@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 13:36:38 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: control X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: white X-Ran: VIB{hIE8+$4,:F!'Z#s,qAr~TQ,_$2AZfw]9Xf3JhOX95_bQw&N%xSQrx0Q.s=("9UGmEM X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes merge 588 589 596 602 605 606 769 822 826 863 968 stop Wow... From unknown Tue Aug 12 07:34:02 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator